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Political Caching


simpjkee
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Bono, the lead singer of the band U2, is famous throughout the entertainment industry for being more than just a little self-righteous.

 

At a recent U2 concert in Glasgow, Scotland, he asked the audience for total quiet.

 

Then, in the silence, he started to slowly clap his hands, once every few seconds.

 

Holding the audience in total silence, he said into the microphone, "Every time I clap my hands, a child in Africa dies."

 

A voice with a broad Scottish accent, from the front of the crowd, pierces the quiet

 

"Well, foockin stop doin it then!"

 

That is gooood. :blink: But seriously, I have nothing but respect for what Bono's done/doing. :blink:

 

Caches are not allowed to have an agenda because it might offend someone. As we know by these threads there's not much that doesn't offend someone out there. I was just a little surprised that someone pointing the finger at people that are constantly breaking the law would be offensive. I guess maybe it would offend the anarchists...

 

and then were does it end? I hope no one in my area is ever offended by ammo cans. :laughing:

It wouldn't be hard to make a flying leap between ammo cans and support for, oh say, the war on terrorism.

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Bono, the lead singer of the band U2, is famous throughout the entertainment industry for being more than just a little self-righteous.

 

At a recent U2 concert in Glasgow, Scotland, he asked the audience for total quiet.

 

Then, in the silence, he started to slowly clap his hands, once every few seconds.

 

Holding the audience in total silence, he said into the microphone, "Every time I clap my hands, a child in Africa dies."

 

A voice with a broad Scottish accent, from the front of the crowd, pierces the quiet

 

"Well, foockin stop doin it then!"

 

That is gooood. :blink: But seriously, I have nothing but respect for what Bono's done/doing. :blink:

 

Caches are not allowed to have an agenda because it might offend someone. As we know by these threads there's not much that doesn't offend someone out there. I was just a little surprised that someone pointing the finger at people that are constantly breaking the law would be offensive. I guess maybe it would offend the anarchists...

and then where does it end? I hope no one in my area is ever offended by ammo cans. :blink:

It wouldn't be hard to make a flying leap between ammo cans and support for, oh say, the war on terrorism.

I wish people would all get a little thicker skins and knock off the politically correct walking on eggshells crap for stuff that can easily be tolerated. This country was founded on tolerance. Like I said before, I don't view law enforcement of immigration as a political agenda. The other thing I want to mention is that in some parts of the country cachers occasionly get stopped by border patrol agents, so the situation is more real to those people. The agents I have run into are very cool. So the illegal immigration issue is a part of our game down here. :laughing:
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...The message doesnt make me uncomfortable. The biggest reason I frown upon it is because it is a oneway discussion. If it said what it said and then had a notebook or something inside and asked for opinions that leads to social discussion thats different. In this case it is said and you are forced to read it without being able to respond. I guess you can respond in the online found it log, but I chose not to and instead brought it here to the forum where discussion is possible.

If you frown on it, then you are may be classicly uncomfortable but you are moved to action. As for a one way discussion. That's an opinion. You are not forced to consider it at all. Life is full of these one way presentations of opinion. In a recent beer commecial I noticed that whatever the beer is it seems to imply that it's best served in rooms full of women who are only visible from the waist down who are great at shaking their behinds. I swear there is an opinion in that commercial but I'm still not sure what it is.

 

the opinion, dear lad, is that if the consumer is inundated with enough inappropriate sexual imagery, that he won't notice how bad the beer sucks.

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BTW, there is no mention of anything political in the webpage for the cache. It's only in/on the cache itself once you find it.

 

Cache contents can have whatever agenda you like (as long as it isn't promoting the consumption of alcohol, tobacco, or firearms, by giving out samples :o).

 

The cache description, however, cannot. The reviewers sometimes discuss "is this an agenda?" among ourselves in excruciating detail - and don't always agree. It's quite strange seeing a devout Christian reviewer criticising a Bible-themed cache (which is generally OK) for crossing the line into proselytising, or a Democrat-voting reviewer nudging a cache placer to remove an adjective from a cache with mentions the President, but it happens all the time. If you ever have a cache refused for "having an agenda", be assured that it will have been given a good hearing.

 

If a cache listing is amended after publication to include an agenda, particularly if there was "discussion" about it prior to publication, the cache owner may find their cache being archived with what I believe is known in some circles as "extreme prejudice". :ph34r:

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BTW, there is no mention of anything political in the webpage for the cache. It's only in/on the cache itself once you find it.

Cache contents can have whatever agenda you like (as long as it isn't promoting the consumption of alcohol, tobacco, or firearms, by giving out samples :ph34r: ).

 

The cache description, however, cannot. The reviewers sometimes discuss "is this an agenda?" among ourselves in excruciating detail - and don't always agree. It's quite strange seeing a devout Christian reviewer criticising a Bible-themed cache (which is generally OK) for crossing the line into proselytising, or a Democrat-voting reviewer nudging a cache placer to remove an adjective from a cache with mentions the President, but it happens all the time.

So this cache is OK. :o It is interesting how hypersensitive some people are these days. I'm really not sure why that is....
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Bono, the lead singer of the band U2, is famous throughout the entertainment industry for being more than just a little self-righteous.

 

At a recent U2 concert in Glasgow, Scotland, he asked the audience for total quiet.

 

Then, in the silence, he started to slowly clap his hands, once every few seconds.

 

Holding the audience in total silence, he said into the microphone, "Every time I clap my hands, a child in Africa dies."

 

A voice with a broad Scottish accent, from the front of the crowd, pierces the quiet

 

"Well, foockin stop doin it then!"

 

That is gooood. :ph34r: But seriously, I have nothing but respect for what Bono's done/doing. :o

 

Caches are not allowed to have an agenda because it might offend someone. As we know by these threads there's not much that doesn't offend someone out there. I was just a little surprised that someone pointing the finger at people that are constantly breaking the law would be offensive. I guess maybe it would offend the anarchists...

 

who is offended?

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...The message doesnt make me uncomfortable. The biggest reason I frown upon it is because it is a oneway discussion. If it said what it said and then had a notebook or something inside and asked for opinions that leads to social discussion thats different. In this case it is said and you are forced to read it without being able to respond. I guess you can respond in the online found it log, but I chose not to and instead brought it here to the forum where discussion is possible.

If you frown on it, then you are may be classicly uncomfortable but you are moved to action. As for a one way discussion. That's an opinion. You are not forced to consider it at all. Life is full of these one way presentations of opinion. In a recent beer commecial I noticed that whatever the beer is it seems to imply that it's best served in rooms full of women who are only visible from the waist down who are great at shaking their behinds. I swear there is an opinion in that commercial but I'm still not sure what it is.

 

Thats why I rarely watch tv. Because I know I'll see a bunch of ridiculous one way presentations of opinion.

 

By the way "one way presentation of opinion" is worded way better than "one way discussion". Thanks for the clarification

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Bono, the lead singer of the band U2, is famous throughout the entertainment industry for being more than just a little self-righteous.

 

At a recent U2 concert in Glasgow, Scotland, he asked the audience for total quiet.

 

Then, in the silence, he started to slowly clap his hands, once every few seconds.

 

Holding the audience in total silence, he said into the microphone, "Every time I clap my hands, a child in Africa dies."

 

A voice with a broad Scottish accent, from the front of the crowd, pierces the quiet

 

"Well, foockin stop doin it then!"

 

That is gooood. :ph34r: But seriously, I have nothing but respect for what Bono's done/doing. :D

 

Caches are not allowed to have an agenda because it might offend someone. As we know by these threads there's not much that doesn't offend someone out there. I was just a little surprised that someone pointing the finger at people that are constantly breaking the law would be offensive. I guess maybe it would offend the anarchists...

and then where does it end? I hope no one in my area is ever offended by ammo cans. :o

It wouldn't be hard to make a flying leap between ammo cans and support for, oh say, the war on terrorism.

I wish people would all get a little thicker skins and knock off the politically correct walking on eggshells crap for stuff that can easily be tolerated. This country was founded on tolerance. Like I said before, I don't view law enforcement of immigration as a political agenda. The other thing I want to mention is that in some parts of the country cachers occasionly get stopped by border patrol agents, so the situation is more real to those people. The agents I have run into are very cool. So the illegal immigration issue is a part of our game down here. :lol:

 

oops. i accidentally posted this quote

Edited by simpjkee
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BTW, there is no mention of anything political in the webpage for the cache. It's only in/on the cache itself once you find it.

Cache contents can have whatever agenda you like (as long as it isn't promoting the consumption of alcohol, tobacco, or firearms, by giving out samples :ph34r: ).

 

The cache description, however, cannot. The reviewers sometimes discuss "is this an agenda?" among ourselves in excruciating detail - and don't always agree. It's quite strange seeing a devout Christian reviewer criticising a Bible-themed cache (which is generally OK) for crossing the line into proselytising, or a Democrat-voting reviewer nudging a cache placer to remove an adjective from a cache with mentions the President, but it happens all the time.

So this cache is OK. :o It is interesting how hypersensitive some people are these days. I'm really not sure why that is....

 

I cant imagine you are referring to me. if so, please reread my original post to see that, at worst, i said that "the political agenda of the caches in the area are a bit of a turn off."

 

does that sound hypersensitive? if anything, saying someone is hypersensitive when they say a cache is "a bit of a turn off" sounds more hypersensitive to me.

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Instead if allowing others to have their opinions they want everyone to have no opinion or at the least not to express their opinion. I suspect those who want to ban all political and religious objects from caches are simply uncomfortable with the subjects. I don't think that a discomfort of a subject or idea is a good reason to ban certain items from a cache.

 

I have to (respectfully) disagree. I (and many other cachers) find it rude to foist political or religious opinions on strangers, given the contentious nature of these subjects. That's the best reason in the world for banning religious and political tracts from caches.

Link to comment
BTW, there is no mention of anything political in the webpage for the cache. It's only in/on the cache itself once you find it.

Cache contents can have whatever agenda you like (as long as it isn't promoting the consumption of alcohol, tobacco, or firearms, by giving out samples :ph34r: ).

 

The cache description, however, cannot. The reviewers sometimes discuss "is this an agenda?" among ourselves in excruciating detail - and don't always agree. It's quite strange seeing a devout Christian reviewer criticising a Bible-themed cache (which is generally OK) for crossing the line into proselytising, or a Democrat-voting reviewer nudging a cache placer to remove an adjective from a cache with mentions the President, but it happens all the time.

So this cache is OK. :D It is interesting how hypersensitive some people are these days. I'm really not sure why that is....

I cant imagine you are referring to me. if so, please reread my original post to see that, at worst, i said that "the political agenda of the caches in the area are a bit of a turn off."

 

does that sound hypersensitive? if anything, saying someone is hypersensitive when they say a cache is "a bit of a turn off" sounds more hypersensitive to me.

I guess you can't imagine it because I wasn't referring to you. I was responding to riviouveur. :o Edited by TrailGators
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Bono, the lead singer of the band U2, is famous throughout the entertainment industry for being more than just a little self-righteous.

 

At a recent U2 concert in Glasgow, Scotland, he asked the audience for total quiet.

 

Then, in the silence, he started to slowly clap his hands, once every few seconds.

 

Holding the audience in total silence, he said into the microphone, "Every time I clap my hands, a child in Africa dies."

 

A voice with a broad Scottish accent, from the front of the crowd, pierces the quiet

 

"Well, foockin stop doin it then!"

 

That is gooood. :ph34r: But seriously, I have nothing but respect for what Bono's done/doing. :o

 

Caches are not allowed to have an agenda because it might offend someone. As we know by these threads there's not much that doesn't offend someone out there. I was just a little surprised that someone pointing the finger at people that are constantly breaking the law would be offensive. I guess maybe it would offend the anarchists...

 

who is offended?

Again I was speaking in general terms. I don't understand why one guy throwing some literature against illegal immigration into cache would bother anyone except of course the illegals.
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Bono, the lead singer of the band U2, is famous throughout the entertainment industry for being more than just a little self-righteous.

 

At a recent U2 concert in Glasgow, Scotland, he asked the audience for total quiet.

 

Then, in the silence, he started to slowly clap his hands, once every few seconds.

 

Holding the audience in total silence, he said into the microphone, "Every time I clap my hands, a child in Africa dies."

 

A voice with a broad Scottish accent, from the front of the crowd, pierces the quiet

 

"Well, foockin stop doin it then!"

 

EXCELLENT ! :ph34r:

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BTW, there is no mention of anything political in the webpage for the cache. It's only in/on the cache itself once you find it.

 

Cache contents can have whatever agenda you like (as long as it isn't promoting the consumption of alcohol, tobacco, or firearms, by giving out samples :ph34r:).

 

The cache description, however, cannot. The reviewers sometimes discuss "is this an agenda?" among ourselves in excruciating detail - and don't always agree. It's quite strange seeing a devout Christian reviewer criticising a Bible-themed cache (which is generally OK) for crossing the line into proselytising, or a Democrat-voting reviewer nudging a cache placer to remove an adjective from a cache with mentions the President, but it happens all the time. If you ever have a cache refused for "having an agenda", be assured that it will have been given a good hearing.

 

If a cache listing is amended after publication to include an agenda, particularly if there was "discussion" about it prior to publication, the cache owner may find their cache being archived with what I believe is known in some circles as "extreme prejudice". :o

 

This is the quote from the guidelines:

 

"Solicitations are off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda."

 

I hate to play devil's advocate again..but it's so darn fun. If a cache reviewer approves a cache that is clearly christian oriented just because he or she happens to be christian..that reviewer should be the one reviewed for competency. Reviewers should be non biased. They have the guidelines and they should use them across the board regardless of their own beliefs. Judges and juries have a tough job. It's the lawyers who screw things up because the judge and juries have to sift through the muck without predjudice.

 

What other people leave IN the cache isn't the owners fault. However, if the owner is in some way soliciting a personal agenda that is religious, political, charitable or social...then it should not be allowed to be listed. Sorry..it's just the rules as they are written.

 

Either way, as a geocacher...I'll still hunt them..I just won't give them any satisfaction by writing in my log about how I've "seen the light" and how I've converted to their line of thinking...or not.

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Bono, the lead singer of the band U2, is famous throughout the entertainment industry for being more than just a little self-righteous.

 

At a recent U2 concert in Glasgow, Scotland, he asked the audience for total quiet.

 

Then, in the silence, he started to slowly clap his hands, once every few seconds.

 

Holding the audience in total silence, he said into the microphone, "Every time I clap my hands, a child in Africa dies."

 

A voice with a broad Scottish accent, from the front of the crowd, pierces the quiet

 

"Well, foockin stop doin it then!"

 

That is gooood. :ph34r: But seriously, I have nothing but respect for what Bono's done/doing. :o

 

Caches are not allowed to have an agenda because it might offend someone. As we know by these threads there's not much that doesn't offend someone out there. I was just a little surprised that someone pointing the finger at people that are constantly breaking the law would be offensive. I guess maybe it would offend the anarchists...

 

who is offended?

Again I was speaking in general terms. I don't understand why one guy throwing some literature against illegal immigration into cache would bother anyone except of course the illegals.

 

Its written on the cache, not an item in the cache. and there are tons of people who see illegal immigrants as a necessary labor group, etc. in this country. Plus they are tons of legal US citizens who are related to honest hardworking illegals who do a lot of good for the country. its not just illegals who would be offended by a blatantly anti immigration political message.

 

disclaimer: i am completely neutral, i'm just pointing out a few facts.

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Bono, the lead singer of the band U2, is famous throughout the entertainment industry for being more than just a little self-righteous.

 

At a recent U2 concert in Glasgow, Scotland, he asked the audience for total quiet.

 

Then, in the silence, he started to slowly clap his hands, once every few seconds.

 

Holding the audience in total silence, he said into the microphone, "Every time I clap my hands, a child in Africa dies."

 

A voice with a broad Scottish accent, from the front of the crowd, pierces the quiet

 

"Well, foockin stop doin it then!"

 

That is gooood. :ph34r: But seriously, I have nothing but respect for what Bono's done/doing. :o

 

Caches are not allowed to have an agenda because it might offend someone. As we know by these threads there's not much that doesn't offend someone out there. I was just a little surprised that someone pointing the finger at people that are constantly breaking the law would be offensive. I guess maybe it would offend the anarchists...

 

who is offended?

Again I was speaking in general terms. I don't understand why one guy throwing some literature against illegal immigration into cache would bother anyone except of course the illegals.

 

Its written on the cache, not an item in the cache. and there are tons of people who see illegal immigrants as a necessary labor group, etc. in this country. Plus they are tons of legal US citizens who are related to honest hardworking illegals who do a lot of good for the country. its not just illegals who would be offended by a blatantly anti immigration political message.

 

disclaimer: i am completely neutral, I'm just pointing out a few facts.

They are breaking the law.... :D
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Bono, the lead singer of the band U2, is famous throughout the entertainment industry for being more than just a little self-righteous.

 

At a recent U2 concert in Glasgow, Scotland, he asked the audience for total quiet.

 

Then, in the silence, he started to slowly clap his hands, once every few seconds.

 

Holding the audience in total silence, he said into the microphone, "Every time I clap my hands, a child in Africa dies."

 

A voice with a broad Scottish accent, from the front of the crowd, pierces the quiet

 

"Well, foockin stop doin it then!"

You need to post more.

 

If this is the standard to which I will be held, I'll be posting again sometime in March. :ph34r:

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Bono, the lead singer of the band U2, is famous throughout the entertainment industry for being more than just a little self-righteous.

 

At a recent U2 concert in Glasgow, Scotland, he asked the audience for total quiet.

 

Then, in the silence, he started to slowly clap his hands, once every few seconds.

 

Holding the audience in total silence, he said into the microphone, "Every time I clap my hands, a child in Africa dies."

 

A voice with a broad Scottish accent, from the front of the crowd, pierces the quiet

 

"Well, foockin stop doin it then!"

 

That is gooood. :P But seriously, I have nothing but respect for what Bono's done/doing. ;)

 

Caches are not allowed to have an agenda because it might offend someone. As we know by these threads there's not much that doesn't offend someone out there. I was just a little surprised that someone pointing the finger at people that are constantly breaking the law would be offensive. I guess maybe it would offend the anarchists...

 

who is offended?

Again I was speaking in general terms. I don't understand why one guy throwing some literature against illegal immigration into cache would bother anyone except of course the illegals.

 

Its written on the cache, not an item in the cache. and there are tons of people who see illegal immigrants as a necessary labor group, etc. in this country. Plus they are tons of legal US citizens who are related to honest hardworking illegals who do a lot of good for the country. its not just illegals who would be offended by a blatantly anti immigration political message.

 

disclaimer: i am completely neutral, I'm just pointing out a few facts.

They are breaking the law.... :P

 

So TailGators exactly which Mexican law are they breaking? :P

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Instead if allowing others to have their opinions they want everyone to have no opinion or at the least not to express their opinion. I suspect those who want to ban all political and religious objects from caches are simply uncomfortable with the subjects. I don't think that a discomfort of a subject or idea is a good reason to ban certain items from a cache.

 

I have to (respectfully) disagree. I (and many other cachers) find it rude to foist political or religious opinions on strangers, given the contentious nature of these subjects. That's the best reason in the world for banning religious and political tracts from caches.

 

Using the term foist you are saying that some how there is trickery being employed to obscure the true nature of the subject of the reading material. When I see a small pamphlet that has God With Us written on it I imagine it is obvious to even the most daft of us here that God might just have something to do with religion. If one is adverse to the subject then one should ignore the item there is no trickery here.

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Instead if allowing others to have their opinions they want everyone to have no opinion or at the least not to express their opinion. I suspect those who want to ban all political and religious objects from caches are simply uncomfortable with the subjects. I don't think that a discomfort of a subject or idea is a good reason to ban certain items from a cache.

 

I have to (respectfully) disagree. I (and many other cachers) find it rude to foist political or religious opinions on strangers, given the contentious nature of these subjects. That's the best reason in the world for banning religious and political tracts from caches.

 

Using the term foist you are saying that some how there is trickery being employed to obscure the true nature of the subject of the reading material. When I see a small pamphlet that has God With Us written on it I imagine it is obvious to even the most daft of us here that God might just have something to do with religion. If one is adverse to the subject then one should ignore the item there is no trickery here.

 

Sure, pamphlets (and such) left behind can be ignored and don't bother me. Messages written on the cache, type of container, or maybe even the shape of the container that communicate a message which is against the rules is another matter and should be deleted from the database.

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Bono, the lead singer of the band U2, is famous throughout the entertainment industry for being more than just a little self-righteous.

 

At a recent U2 concert in Glasgow, Scotland, he asked the audience for total quiet.

 

Then, in the silence, he started to slowly clap his hands, once every few seconds.

 

Holding the audience in total silence, he said into the microphone, "Every time I clap my hands, a child in Africa dies."

 

A voice with a broad Scottish accent, from the front of the crowd, pierces the quiet

 

"Well, foockin stop doin it then!"

 

That is gooood. :P But seriously, I have nothing but respect for what Bono's done/doing. ;)

 

Caches are not allowed to have an agenda because it might offend someone. As we know by these threads there's not much that doesn't offend someone out there. I was just a little surprised that someone pointing the finger at people that are constantly breaking the law would be offensive. I guess maybe it would offend the anarchists...

 

who is offended?

Again I was speaking in general terms. I don't understand why one guy throwing some literature against illegal immigration into cache would bother anyone except of course the illegals.

 

Its written on the cache, not an item in the cache. and there are tons of people who see illegal immigrants as a necessary labor group, etc. in this country. Plus they are tons of legal US citizens who are related to honest hardworking illegals who do a lot of good for the country. its not just illegals who would be offended by a blatantly anti immigration political message.

 

disclaimer: i am completely neutral, I'm just pointing out a few facts.

They are breaking the law.... :P

 

So TailGators exactly which Mexican law are they breaking? :P

It's Trailgators.....

 

Quote of the Day: "The American Indians found out what happens when you don't control immigration" -Richard Langowski

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....I have to (respectfully) disagree. I (and many other cachers) find it rude to foist political or religious opinions on strangers, given the contentious nature of these subjects. That's the best reason in the world for banning religious and political tracts from caches.

Since your poltical, social, and relgius message is to not foist such things, and yet by being against it have dipped your toe into all three. How do you reconcile that exactly?

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I hate to play devil's advocate again..but it's so darn fun. If a cache reviewer approves a cache that is clearly christian oriented just because he or she happens to be christian..that reviewer should be the one reviewed for competency. Reviewers should be non biased. They have the guidelines and they should use them across the board regardless of their own beliefs.

 

Indeed. I thought that was the point I made. I certainly intended to make it, in my paragraph about how various reviewers find themselves detecting and refusing agendas that they personally agree with. Sorry if it wasn't sufficiently clear.

 

Just to reiterate: I was not suggesting that reviewers either should, or do, judge the presence of an agenda by whether or not they agree with it. Hope that's clear. :P

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....I have to (respectfully) disagree. I (and many other cachers) find it rude to foist political or religious opinions on strangers, given the contentious nature of these subjects. That's the best reason in the world for banning religious and political tracts from caches.

Since your poltical, social, and relgius message is to not foist such things, and yet by being against it have dipped your toe into all three. How do you reconcile that exactly?

Wow. You know, context does make a difference. This forum is here to discuss caching, including, for lack of a better term, caching etiquette. There's nothing inconsistent about believing caches should be free of items promoting agendas and saying so here.

 

I agree with imajeep: Aside from the fact that many of us view caching as a fun diversion from such serious/depression/annoying things, it is just plain bad manners to subject people to your agendas in a public setting where they have indicated no interest in it. Yes, you have a legal right to do it, and it isn't banned in caches, but it's still bad manners.

 

(Besides, how many minds do you think are changed by bumper stickers (or scrawl on the side of a cache container) or Chick tracts?)

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....I have to (respectfully) disagree. I (and many other cachers) find it rude to foist political or religious opinions on strangers, given the contentious nature of these subjects. That's the best reason in the world for banning religious and political tracts from caches.

Since your poltical, social, and relgius message is to not foist such things, and yet by being against it have dipped your toe into all three. How do you reconcile that exactly?

Wow. You know, context does make a difference. This forum is here to discuss caching, including, for lack of a better term, caching etiquette. There's nothing inconsistent about believing caches should be free of items promoting agendas and saying so here.

 

I agree with imajeep: Aside from the fact that many of us view caching as a fun diversion from such serious/depression/annoying things, it is just plain bad manners to subject people to your agendas in a public setting where they have indicated no interest in it. Yes, you have a legal right to do it, and it isn't banned in caches, but it's still bad manners.

...

You are right that the forum is for these kinds of discussions. You would be wrong if you think that the anti agenda, agenda, is any less of an agenda, than any other agenda. How that translates out of the forums and back into the field where the cache is, would be if someone were to spray paint the cache in a new camo pattern to get rid of the current message. Thus sending their own message.

 

Painting the world we live in in bland politically correct colors to be free of all things that might be considered offensive at some level is very much an agenda.

 

The only question is: Is that the one you want to live with?

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...(Besides, how many minds do you think are changed by bumper stickers (or scrawl on the side of a cache container) or Chick tracts?)

 

Quite a few actually. If there were no religious tracts etc. Nobody would hate them. They do have an impact. They do change how people think, even when they think they are immune. They may not change their mind on the exact idea presented. But there are changes.

 

Case in point. Someone put a message on a cache and what do you know. A big fat discussion in the forums over it. Impact. Buzz, Hype, Debate. All generated from the equivilent of a a cache bumper sticker.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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...(Besides, how many minds do you think are changed by bumper stickers (or scrawl on the side of a cache container) or Chick tracts?)

 

Quite a few actually. If there were no religious tracts etc. Nobody would hate them. They do have an impact. They do change how people think, even when they think they are immune. They may not change their mind on the exact idea presented. But there are changes.

 

Case in point. Someone put a message on a cache and what do you know. A big fat discussion in the forums over it. Impact. Buzz, Hype, Debate. All generated from the equivilent of a a cache bumper sticker.

 

So what do you suggest? Just because person 'A' doesn't like the message, it should be removed? How far do you take this? I didn't like the way the cache was hidden, so I am going to remove it?... I think it's best for everyone to act like grown-ups and ignore the things you don't like, or at least come to the forums and argue/whine about it. :P

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You are right that the forum is for these kinds of discussions. You would be wrong if you think that the anti agenda, agenda, is any less of an agenda, than any other agenda. How that translates out of the forums and back into the field where the cache is, would be if someone were to spray paint the cache in a new camo pattern to get rid of the current message. Thus sending their own message.

 

Painting the world we live in in bland politically correct colors to be free of all things that might be considered offensive at some level is very much an agenda.

 

The only question is: Is that the one you want to live with?

This is so true... :P
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...(Besides, how many minds do you think are changed by bumper stickers (or scrawl on the side of a cache container) or Chick tracts?)

 

Quite a few actually. If there were no religious tracts etc. Nobody would hate them. They do have an impact. They do change how people think, even when they think they are immune. They may not change their mind on the exact idea presented. But there are changes.

 

Case in point. Someone put a message on a cache and what do you know. A big fat discussion in the forums over it. Impact. Buzz, Hype, Debate. All generated from the equivilent of a a cache bumper sticker.

 

So what do you suggest?...

 

Live and let live for the most part.

Link to comment
Bono, the lead singer of the band U2, is famous throughout the entertainment industry for being more than just a little self-righteous.

 

At a recent U2 concert in Glasgow, Scotland, he asked the audience for total quiet.

 

Then, in the silence, he started to slowly clap his hands, once every few seconds.

 

Holding the audience in total silence, he said into the microphone, "Every time I clap my hands, a child in Africa dies."

 

A voice with a broad Scottish accent, from the front of the crowd, pierces the quiet

 

"Well, foockin stop doin it then!"

 

That is gooood. :ph34r: But seriously, I have nothing but respect for what Bono's done/doing. :ph34r:

 

Caches are not allowed to have an agenda because it might offend someone. As we know by these threads there's not much that doesn't offend someone out there. I was just a little surprised that someone pointing the finger at people that are constantly breaking the law would be offensive. I guess maybe it would offend the anarchists...

 

who is offended?

Again I was speaking in general terms. I don't understand why one guy throwing some literature against illegal immigration into cache would bother anyone except of course the illegals.

 

Its written on the cache, not an item in the cache. and there are tons of people who see illegal immigrants as a necessary labor group, etc. in this country. Plus they are tons of legal US citizens who are related to honest hardworking illegals who do a lot of good for the country. its not just illegals who would be offended by a blatantly anti immigration political message.

 

disclaimer: i am completely neutral, I'm just pointing out a few facts.

They are breaking the law.... :ph34r:

 

So TailGators exactly which Mexican law are they breaking? :grin:

It's Trailgators.....

 

Quote of the Day: "The American Indians found out what happens when you don't control immigration" -Richard Langowski

 

I'm sorry. That was a typo and not intentional. I'll ty not to let it happen again.

Link to comment
Bono, the lead singer of the band U2, is famous throughout the entertainment industry for being more than just a little self-righteous.

 

At a recent U2 concert in Glasgow, Scotland, he asked the audience for total quiet.

 

Then, in the silence, he started to slowly clap his hands, once every few seconds.

 

Holding the audience in total silence, he said into the microphone, "Every time I clap my hands, a child in Africa dies."

 

A voice with a broad Scottish accent, from the front of the crowd, pierces the quiet

 

"Well, foockin stop doin it then!"

 

That is gooood. :grin: But seriously, I have nothing but respect for what Bono's done/doing. :ph34r:

 

Caches are not allowed to have an agenda because it might offend someone. As we know by these threads there's not much that doesn't offend someone out there. I was just a little surprised that someone pointing the finger at people that are constantly breaking the law would be offensive. I guess maybe it would offend the anarchists...

 

who is offended?

Again I was speaking in general terms. I don't understand why one guy throwing some literature against illegal immigration into cache would bother anyone except of course the illegals.

 

Its written on the cache, not an item in the cache. and there are tons of people who see illegal immigrants as a necessary labor group, etc. in this country. Plus they are tons of legal US citizens who are related to honest hardworking illegals who do a lot of good for the country. its not just illegals who would be offended by a blatantly anti immigration political message.

 

disclaimer: i am completely neutral, I'm just pointing out a few facts.

They are breaking the law.... ;)
So TailGators exactly which Mexican law are they breaking? :ph34r:
It's Trailgators.....

 

Quote of the Day: "The American Indians found out what happens when you don't control immigration" -Richard Langowski

I'm sorry. That was a typo and not intentional. I'll ty not to let it happen again.
No problem. My caching name is a play on words that substitutes trail for tail (and gator for gater) so people mix it up sometimes. :ph34r:

Anyhow, if you ever break a "Mexican law" be prepared to do some time in a Mexican jail. Those guys don't mess around. They apply their laws much more strictly than we do. There was a guy from San Diego that was in a car accident in Mexico a few years back and was in critical condition. He needed to be rushed up to San Diego for urgent care but they wouldn't let him go until a large fine was paid first. The guy died. :P

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Painting the world we live in in bland politically correct colors to be free of all things that might be considered offensive at some level is very much an agenda.

 

The only question is: Is that the one you want to live with?

Straw man.

 

No one is saying people shouldn't talk politics or religion. It's a question of time and place; context; manners. We're not talking about "the world" (as you say), but a box of trinkets my kids are pawing through for fun.

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...We're not talking about "the world" (as you say), but a box of trinkets my kids are pawing through for fun.

Which are located in the world, placed by people who live in the world, in areas of the world with unique issues that impact caching, boxes, and kids.

 

Odds are if your kids found the cache mentioned by the OP they would not read the text on the box and open it up looking for swag. That would mean that they know how to focus on the fun, while the person reacting to the message and making a stand that it's all about the fun, and not the agenda, has found a way to let their agenda impact their own fun.

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...We're not talking about "the world" (as you say), but a box of trinkets my kids are pawing through for fun.

Which are located in the world, placed by people who live in the world, in areas of the world with unique issues that impact caching, boxes, and kids.

 

Odds are if your kids found the cache mentioned by the OP they would not read the text on the box and open it up looking for swag. That would mean that they know how to focus on the fun, while the person reacting to the message and making a stand that it's all about the fun, and not the agenda, has found a way to let their agenda impact their own fun.

This is what would happen. It's the same thing that happens when you have the boob tube on at home. You just learn to ignore it. :ph34r:
Link to comment
Bono, the lead singer of the band U2, is famous throughout the entertainment industry for being more than just a little self-righteous.

 

At a recent U2 concert in Glasgow, Scotland, he asked the audience for total quiet.

 

Then, in the silence, he started to slowly clap his hands, once every few seconds.

 

Holding the audience in total silence, he said into the microphone, "Every time I clap my hands, a child in Africa dies."

 

A voice with a broad Scottish accent, from the front of the crowd, pierces the quiet

 

"Well, foockin stop doin it then!"

 

That is gooood. :angry: But seriously, I have nothing but respect for what Bono's done/doing. :angry:

 

Caches are not allowed to have an agenda because it might offend someone. As we know by these threads there's not much that doesn't offend someone out there. I was just a little surprised that someone pointing the finger at people that are constantly breaking the law would be offensive. I guess maybe it would offend the anarchists...

 

who is offended?

Again I was speaking in general terms. I don't understand why one guy throwing some literature against illegal immigration into cache would bother anyone except of course the illegals.

 

Its written on the cache, not an item in the cache. and there are tons of people who see illegal immigrants as a necessary labor group, etc. in this country. Plus they are tons of legal US citizens who are related to honest hardworking illegals who do a lot of good for the country. its not just illegals who would be offended by a blatantly anti immigration political message.

 

disclaimer: i am completely neutral, I'm just pointing out a few facts.

They are breaking the law.... :angry:
So TailGators exactly which Mexican law are they breaking? :blink:
It's Trailgators.....

 

Quote of the Day: "The American Indians found out what happens when you don't control immigration" -Richard Langowski

I'm sorry. That was a typo and not intentional. I'll ty not to let it happen again.
No problem. My caching name is a play on words that substitutes trail for tail (and gator for gater) so people mix it up sometimes. :angry:

Anyhow, if you ever break a "Mexican law" be prepared to do some time in a Mexican jail. Those guys don't mess around. They apply their laws much more strictly than we do. There was a guy from San Diego that was in a car accident in Mexico a few years back and was in critical condition. He needed to be rushed up to San Diego for urgent care but they wouldn't let him go until a large fine was paid first. The guy died. :huh:

 

Mexican law reaches in to the US as well. A local, to me, bounty hunter was arrested by US Marshals at the request of the Mexican government. The Mexican government requested this because the bounty hunter captured a fugitive from United States that the Mexican government not only refused to return to the USA but also let him go free. Apparently we are expected to enforce Mexican law in the USA but we shouldn't expect the same in return from Mexico.

Link to comment
Bono, the lead singer of the band U2, is famous throughout the entertainment industry for being more than just a little self-righteous.

 

At a recent U2 concert in Glasgow, Scotland, he asked the audience for total quiet.

 

Then, in the silence, he started to slowly clap his hands, once every few seconds.

 

Holding the audience in total silence, he said into the microphone, "Every time I clap my hands, a child in Africa dies."

 

A voice with a broad Scottish accent, from the front of the crowd, pierces the quiet

 

"Well, foockin stop doin it then!"

 

That is gooood. :laughing: But seriously, I have nothing but respect for what Bono's done/doing. :laughing:

 

Caches are not allowed to have an agenda because it might offend someone. As we know by these threads there's not much that doesn't offend someone out there. I was just a little surprised that someone pointing the finger at people that are constantly breaking the law would be offensive. I guess maybe it would offend the anarchists...

 

who is offended?

Again I was speaking in general terms. I don't understand why one guy throwing some literature against illegal immigration into cache would bother anyone except of course the illegals.

 

Its written on the cache, not an item in the cache. and there are tons of people who see illegal immigrants as a necessary labor group, etc. in this country. Plus they are tons of legal US citizens who are related to honest hardworking illegals who do a lot of good for the country. its not just illegals who would be offended by a blatantly anti immigration political message.

 

disclaimer: i am completely neutral, I'm just pointing out a few facts.

They are breaking the law.... :laughing:

 

maybe the law needs revision......since they are considered by many to be a vital part of our economy, etc.

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disclaimer: i am completely neutral, i'm just pointing out a few facts.

 

wrong answer, but thanks for playing.

 

nobody is ever completely neutral.

 

nobody.

 

ever.

 

for the sake of this forum and this thread, i am neutral. of course if you want to hop over to a political forum i'll be happy to express my views

Link to comment

...(Besides, how many minds do you think are changed by bumper stickers (or scrawl on the side of a cache container) or Chick tracts?)

 

Quite a few actually. If there were no religious tracts etc. Nobody would hate them. They do have an impact. They do change how people think, even when they think they are immune. They may not change their mind on the exact idea presented. But there are changes.

 

Case in point. Someone put a message on a cache and what do you know. A big fat discussion in the forums over it. Impact. Buzz, Hype, Debate. All generated from the equivilent of a a cache bumper sticker.

 

I think it's best for everyone to act like grown-ups and ignore the things you don't like, or at least come to the forums and argue/whine about it. :laughing:

 

which is exactly what I did :laughing:

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...We're not talking about "the world" (as you say), but a box of trinkets my kids are pawing through for fun.

Which are located in the world, placed by people who live in the world, in areas of the world with unique issues that impact caching, boxes, and kids.

 

Odds are if your kids found the cache mentioned by the OP they would not read the text on the box and open it up looking for swag. That would mean that they know how to focus on the fun, while the person reacting to the message and making a stand that it's all about the fun, and not the agenda, has found a way to let their agenda impact their own fun.

 

in hindsight, i think the political message added to the fun, cuz posting in the forums is fun and i started this huge thread about that political message

 

hunting cache................fun

finding cache.................fun

political message..........."a bit of a turn off"

huge forum thread.........priceless

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maybe the law needs revision......since they are considered by many to be a vital part of our economy, etc.

 

So was trading in furs and fish a vital part of the economy until we learned to do without. :laughing:

 

but we still did it until we learned to do without, without being called criminals.

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Mexican law reaches in to the US as well. A local, to me, bounty hunter was arrested by US Marshals at the request of the Mexican government. The Mexican government requested this because the bounty hunter captured a fugitive from United States that the Mexican government not only refused to return to the USA but also let him go free. Apparently we are expected to enforce Mexican law in the USA but we shouldn't expect the same in return from Mexico.

That's a bit over the top.

Look at it from the other side

Mexico extradites people to the U.S. all the time. We extradite people to Mexico all the time. I think all heck would break loose here if a private Mexican citizen grabbed someone here to take back to Mexico without due process. It's called kidnapping.

 

this is getting pretty far OT

Link to comment
Bono, the lead singer of the band U2, is famous throughout the entertainment industry for being more than just a little self-righteous.

 

At a recent U2 concert in Glasgow, Scotland, he asked the audience for total quiet.

 

Then, in the silence, he started to slowly clap his hands, once every few seconds.

 

Holding the audience in total silence, he said into the microphone, "Every time I clap my hands, a child in Africa dies."

 

A voice with a broad Scottish accent, from the front of the crowd, pierces the quiet

 

"Well, foockin stop doin it then!"

 

That is gooood. :laughing: But seriously, I have nothing but respect for what Bono's done/doing. :laughing:

 

Caches are not allowed to have an agenda because it might offend someone. As we know by these threads there's not much that doesn't offend someone out there. I was just a little surprised that someone pointing the finger at people that are constantly breaking the law would be offensive. I guess maybe it would offend the anarchists...

 

who is offended?

Again I was speaking in general terms. I don't understand why one guy throwing some literature against illegal immigration into cache would bother anyone except of course the illegals.

 

Its written on the cache, not an item in the cache. and there are tons of people who see illegal immigrants as a necessary labor group, etc. in this country. Plus they are tons of legal US citizens who are related to honest hardworking illegals who do a lot of good for the country. its not just illegals who would be offended by a blatantly anti immigration political message.

 

disclaimer: i am completely neutral, I'm just pointing out a few facts.

They are breaking the law.... :laughing:

maybe the law needs revision......since they are considered by many to be a vital part of our economy, etc.
There are legal ways to work in this country. Your revision to the law is to ignore the law. This is what is happening. Also are 20 million more illegals vital to the economy? 40 million? How about 60 million more? Where does it end? There is nothing stopping it from increasing to the point where it does severely burden the economy. Cross the border and pop out a baby and you get to stay forever. Free everything! Come one, come all... :laughing:
Link to comment
Bono, the lead singer of the band U2, is famous throughout the entertainment industry for being more than just a little self-righteous.

 

At a recent U2 concert in Glasgow, Scotland, he asked the audience for total quiet.

 

Then, in the silence, he started to slowly clap his hands, once every few seconds.

 

Holding the audience in total silence, he said into the microphone, "Every time I clap my hands, a child in Africa dies."

 

A voice with a broad Scottish accent, from the front of the crowd, pierces the quiet

 

"Well, foockin stop doin it then!"

 

That is gooood. :laughing: But seriously, I have nothing but respect for what Bono's done/doing. :laughing:

 

Caches are not allowed to have an agenda because it might offend someone. As we know by these threads there's not much that doesn't offend someone out there. I was just a little surprised that someone pointing the finger at people that are constantly breaking the law would be offensive. I guess maybe it would offend the anarchists...

 

who is offended?

Again I was speaking in general terms. I don't understand why one guy throwing some literature against illegal immigration into cache would bother anyone except of course the illegals.

 

Its written on the cache, not an item in the cache. and there are tons of people who see illegal immigrants as a necessary labor group, etc. in this country. Plus they are tons of legal US citizens who are related to honest hardworking illegals who do a lot of good for the country. its not just illegals who would be offended by a blatantly anti immigration political message.

 

disclaimer: i am completely neutral, I'm just pointing out a few facts.

They are breaking the law.... :laughing:

maybe the law needs revision......since they are considered by many to be a vital part of our economy, etc.
There are legal ways to work in this country. Your revision to the law is to ignore the law. This is what is happening. Also are 20 million more illegals vital to the economy? 40 million? How about 60 million more? Where does it end? There is nothing stopping it from increasing to the point where it does severely burden the economy. Cross the border and pop out a baby and you get to stay forever. Free everything! Come one, come all... :laughing:

 

disclaimer: i am completely neutral, I'm just pointing out a few facts............................and playing devils advocate.

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disclaimer: i am completely neutral, I'm just pointing out a few facts............................and playing devils advocate.
Here are some facts for you compliments of Kit Fox: The Real Cost of Illegal Immigration. :laughing:

 

i've already seen it and, trust me, i am educated on both sides of this issue.

 

it's almost impossible not to be when you live in Arizona where the results of it are in your face everyday

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i live pretty close to the border. i'm sick of all those foreigners coming down and laughing at our primitive healthcare system. they don't even have the courtesy to do it in english, and they drive too fast.

 

no, seriously. we know cachers (foreign ones) who have been threatened by the minutemen on their side of the border. we could not apologize enough for those blasted idiots. where do they get off threatening foreign nationals IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY?!?!?

 

and in this week's news, there are hearings about what to do with a border town near here. it's REALLY a border town; the international boundary goes right through the middle of town and actually through a public building. some overprotective sonsaguns want to build a wall.

 

A FREAKIN' WALL! can you say "berlin?" and let me tell you: this time we're not the ones looking to tear it down.

 

i have never liked our border guards. for the most part the ones you meet leaving the country are polite and cheerful, but it's a real chore getting back into the u.s.. they always look like they're not going to let me back in, but they can't keep me out forever. i'm a citizen, and i really resent being treated like criminal scum when i come back home.

 

i do not feel more secure.

 

welcome to the land of the free.

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