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Do/should cachers have an obligation to place caches?


Lotho

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only take and do not put into the game.

Lotho

probably someone else has already said this...

 

Every time someone finds one of my caches and logs it they ae giving back to the game.

Absolutely agree. I don't mind at all that someone has 2000 finds and zero hides. They've contributed to the game enormously. What's a shop (cache) without customers (cachers)?

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There are a lot of ways to "give back" to the activity. Trade up, write descriptive logs, host/attend events, participate in these forums, volunteer for local groups, CITO and more. Many folks with zero hides do a lot of these other things.

 

Thanks for making this point. Our family has about 120 finds but have never placed a cache. We do try to write thoughtful logs rather than the "TFTC" that we see a lot.

 

Some day we'd like to place a cache, but only when we can place a fun one that we'll be checking on regularly.

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No.

 

I have a container and cache idea in mind. It will be my first hide. I will only place it because I really believe others will enjoy the cache and it will complement existing hides in the area I have in mind.

I think the only obligation we have as cachers is to be good caching citizens. Keep the trails clean and enjoy.

Attend a CITO if you can. We have a local cacher who attended a CITO recently who was 6 months pregnant with triplets at the time. I figure that if she can manage to get out there and be helpful, I surely can, too.

 

Fortunately we have a lot of great geocachers in the area who are active and supportive of the game with thoughtful hides, so caching here is good. :blink:

 

I would not like to see the quality of the hides suffer just to place another cache.

I agree with the previous posters, if there are any obligations to placing caches, it should be to place well thought out ones, not just another 'drop one here' for the sake of saying you placed one.

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My answer is sort of. It would be nice for everyone to give back and place a cache or two (or more), but I think that if they are going to place caches that it be thought out and not just be a capped PVC pipe tossed back behind a business. I am not in favor of a ratio system or mandatory measures in any way shape or form, but in my opinion I think all cachers should give back to the community.

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Somebody mentioned taking part in cito gives back to the caching community. Well, thats onyl possible if there is a cito event near you isnt it? Ive never attended a cito event because there hasnt been one near me.

So - go hold one yourself. Anybody can. Pick a spot - get the coords - pick a date at least 2 weeks away. Make a listing. Show up and get to cleaning!!

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Just because you have never attended a CITO doesn't mean you can't create one of your own.

 

In response to the original question:

Some cachers enjoy finding caches.

Some cachers enjoy creating caches.

Some enjoy both.

 

Everyone gets some form of amusement/entertainment from caching and there are more than enough folks placing caches that it should never be a requirement that everyone place one.

 

If your area is low on caches the I recommend throwing a few events (maybe put up a table at existing community events?) or getting together with a scout troop and seeing if you can introduce new people to the hobby.

 

-J

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I dont know anywhere in my area that needs a CITO. Besides, i dont feel i would be able to hold an event, im only 15 years old. Also, because of that if it was a big event i wouldnt be able to provide litter pickers, a skip etc, so the event would be pretty lame and not much litter would get cleaned up.

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Holding a CITO does not mean you need to provide anything other than garbage bags. Really. We usually state on the page that attendees should bring gloves, a picker and maybe some bags.

As for a place to throw it, pick a park that looks like it needs some help. Just one or two hours can make a big difference.

We have found that contacting the parks and the forests around here and volunteering to help clean up an area of their choosing can lead us to some REALLY trashed spots. For your first CITO, start small- ask the parks system if there is a park that could use 2 hours of cleaning by a group of 4 or 5 devoted people. Since so few folks volunteer to do these things, they may be able to lead you to the perfect place for an afternoon CITO.

And remember- a CITO does not always mean trash. There have been weed pulls, picnic table painting and other similar ideas done for or as part of them as well.

 

If you are uncertain about your age, try to contact another cacher or two and see if they are interested in creating a CITO with you.

Good luck!

J

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Absolutely agree. I don't mind at all that someone has 2000 finds and zero hides. They've contributed to the game enormously. What's a shop (cache) without customers (cachers)?

 

If there weren't any shops (caches) what is there for customers (cachers) to look for?

I do believe cachers have an obligation to hide caches, but not just for the sake of hiding one. Remember the game- make it fun. Short hikes on local trails with well maintained caches seem to be what people enjoy most around here.

I can certainly understand children not making caches because they don't always have the funds and I'd worry about underage children alone in the woods or parks. That would certainly be an exception, but it seems cachers should be encouraged to make hides- good hides for the sake of the game.

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i'm a musician. a composer, to be more specific. i write music. left in a vacuum, it dies. i need performers to bring it to life, and i need an audience to listen.

 

i do not expect the audience to perform, nor do i expect the performers to compose.

 

of course some of them do, but there MUST be both artists and arts consumers.

 

caching is kind of like that. my mom has never placed a cache, but she contributes heavily to the game. she leaves VERY nice little knicknacks in caches AND she has purchased both of my GPSrs and my laptop and mapping software for me. i in turn produce caches and i visit lots of caches, leave nice goodies and write interesting logs.

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Me personally, I love the art of the hide.. I have 7 hidden and 76 finds. My hides are now getting more complex ie.. better camo. My last hide has gotten very good feedback and the one that just got published today should get even better feedback. I have gotten into the habit of wanting the best feedback possible, It makes me want to do the next one better then the last. But that is just me, I felt after about 10 finds, I was ready to try and hide my first cache and now I'm hooked on the hide. It would be nice to have people hide one after there first 10 just to get there goefeet wet but not mandatory.

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To hide a micro is so easy, find a spot..hide the micro with a piece of rolled up paper and you are ready to publish it. I don't think anyone can say they have never had an opportunity to place a cache...

 

And, that is the biggest thing that is wrong with the game today.

 

Just because it is easy to place a cache doesn't mean you should. Caches should be placed for a reason, not "just because".

 

No one should place more caches than

-- they feel they can comfortably maintain.

-- they can find good quality hiding places for.

 

I have only hidden 12 caches. And, yes, I am guilty of at least three of them being lame caches. I have vowed that I will not hide another cache until I have found a place where I feel I can bring people for a reason. I have ideas for puzzles, for cache containers, etc -- but to ruin a good idea with a container in some random bush just so I can make myself feel warm and fuzzy about "giving back to the caching community" isn't for me.

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The biggest problem with the game today?

I maintain all of mine. None have been archived and none will be as long as I'm playing this game..

As to good Quality hiding places, do you mean like one of yours named Montreux Experiment ? Only one of mine is in question, and that is because the locals found that a quick bushwhack is better then taking the trail to it. I wanted them to see the dam at the parking cords. on the way to the cache.

Even my first cache was well thought about. As for my latest ones, I have started to move towards the art of the camouflage. Why? It is nice to see something other then a pill bottle or cAMO can.

Do I knock them? NO. everyone has there choice and no one can tell them what to do. Especially me.

Have I written a nasty note about a cache? YES... was it needed? YES... Do I loose sleep over it? NO...

My newest one was Intended for the uniqueness of it and what to expect in the future from me. So far the last 2 have been very well received.

Here's a rundown of my caches,

2 are in historical locations that are very well liked,

1 is for a beginner,

1 is meant to bring your kids to a new park,

2 are fun caches,

1 was meant to see the dam.

Like you said "It's a game", for what ever reasons someone has to place a cache, Its there business NOT YOURS. If you don't like the location don't bother with the cache.

There has been a few that I have not gone near because of there proximity to homes, businesses, and not being stealthy enough, made a note in the log, and moved on with my life.

If you see that a nubby has done a poor cache and you have a little more expertise in the matter, take him under your GeoWing and help HIM/HER to produce good quality caches. I personally asked my Administrator for help, along with a local cacher, and both were very helpful in all aspects of the hide.

If you don't like the hide because of the location send a message asking the geocacher (why they chose this location for a cache?) you might be surprised on the answers you get.... GENEGENE

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Couldn't make the quote tags work so this will have to do:

 

The biggest problem with the game today?

 

Actually, I said the biggest thing that is wrong in the game today. Close enough. After thinking it over I stand by that statement. I cannot think of anything I would change more than the proliferation of lame caches.

 

I maintain all of mine. None have been archived and none will be as long as I'm playing this game..

 

Good for you. As I said, no one should place more caches than they can comfortably maintain, which is what you are doing. As for not having to archive any of your caches, I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. I have seen plenty of great caches get archived for a variety of reasons and I have seen many lame caches last a long time.

 

As to good Quality hiding places, do you mean like one of yours named Montreux Experiment ?

 

I freely admitted that three of my caches could be called lame. Certainly Montreux Experiment would be #1 on that list. But, I fully state on the cache page that it was placed with a specific reason in mind and so anyone who wants to hunt it knows what they are getting. Regardless, it is still located in a nice green space and it has been hidden in such a way that seekers can have a measure of privacy while hunting it. It's nothing special but I did put at least some thought into it.

 

Only one of mine is in question, and that is because the locals found that a quick bushwhack is better then taking the trail to it. I wanted them to see the dam at the parking cords. on the way to the cache.[/quote[

 

I'll say again: Good for you. If more people put thought into making their hides more interesting the game would benefit.

 

Even my first cache was well thought about. As for my latest ones, I have started to move towards the art of the camouflage. Why? It is nice to see something other then a pill bottle or cAMO can.

 

Third time: Good for you.

 

Do I knock them? NO. everyone has there choice and no one can tell them what to do. Especially me.

 

Have I written a nasty note about a cache? YES... was it needed? YES... Do I loose sleep over it? NO...

 

So writing a nasty note isn't knocking a cache? Since I haven't read any of the notes in question I won't speculate as to whether the nastiness was in anyway intended as "telling them what to do."

 

Like you said "It's a game", for what ever reasons someone has to place a cache, Its there business NOT YOURS. If you don't like the location don't bother with the cache.

 

Unless I get there how do I know if I like the location? I can go by the cache description but those aren't always going to help. I have found caches near parking lots that were good, I have found caches on long hikes that weren't.

 

There has been a few that I have not gone near because of there proximity to homes, businesses, and not being stealthy enough, made a note in the log, and moved on with my life.

 

I have done the same many times.

 

If you see that a nubby has done a poor cache and you have a little more expertise in the matter, take him under your GeoWing and help HIM/HER to produce good quality caches. I personally asked my Administrator for help, along with a local cacher, and both were very helpful in all aspects of the hide.

 

That would almost smack of "telling them what to do".

 

If you don't like the hide because of the location send a message asking the geocacher (why they chose this location for a cache?) you might be surprised on the answers you get.... GENEGENE

 

Not worth my time. If the location appears to be uninspired and the cache description doesn't tell me why the location was picked then I'll log my Find, add one to my numbers and move on.

 

You and I are very much on the same page on this topic. You place caches for a reason and with thought and I strive to do the same. If everyone did what you did the game would be much better.

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At this writing there are 422892 caches worldwide. Imagine that from this point on no new caches were placed. How long would it be before you found all the caches within your reach? The ONLY way this game survives and grows is by having new caches. Hiding a cache takes effort. Planning, building, execution and finally, the big one, MAINTENANCE, that if done properly will cover a period of years.

 

Hosting events is a great addition, but if that is the primary or only contribution it does not compare to placing caches. The game can survive without events, whereas it cannot survive without new caches.

Handing out caches as prizes is fine. The cache you provide, you can hunt, you can log, and you don't have to be bothered with maintenance (good on the hider not the provider). Once an event is over, it's over.

 

Zero hiders may do "many things" but so do non-cachers. So what?

 

If your final claim is that your no good at placing a quality cache, then simply review the thousands of caches you have found, pick your very favorite(s) and duplicate it. Repeat.

 

Think about it, if they banned all those who don't place caches the game would not change in the least, but it sure wouldn't work the other way around.

 

Hard to say what a "fair" ratio is but the top 2 worldwide cachers are pretty dadgum good examples of full participant Geocachers.

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Wise words.

 

Really? That's assuming I buy into his definition of a full participating cacher.

 

There are a lot of ways to "give back" to the activity. Trade up, write descriptive logs, host/attend events, participate in these forums, volunteer for local groups, CITO and more. Many folks with zero hides do a lot of these other things.

 

so don't non-cachers.

 

Excuse me if I don't think placing caches is the final decider of what makes someone a participating cacher.

Edited by BlueDeuce
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Think about it, if they banned all those who don't place caches the game would not change in the least, but it sure wouldn't work the other way around.

Yes, banning non-placers would change the game -- less people would find caches. And to many of us, that's a change for the worse. When I hide a cache, I want lots of people to find it*. I don't care how many caches they've hidden.

 

* (which is not to say I place caches designed to be found by lots of people)

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i would love to hide a cache so the ones whose caches i find and enjoy can also enjoy the hunt, but am not sure about my accuracy,originality, and how hard my first one should be. i also find to some caches that have mostly

small junk in them and dont care for that in some thing with my name on it.

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If you want to place a cache, go for it. You don't have to have a creative container, especially if you take cachers to a nice location. :huh:

 

Load your GPSr with all the caches in that area that you haven't found, and the ones you have found. That will help ensure your cache is at least 528' away from any existing caches, in case the area where you want to place your cache already some.

 

If your GPSr has an Averaging feature, letting it sit and Average for several minutes should give you accurate coordinates. If it doesn't, taking several different waypoints, especially after approaching the location from different directions and letting the GPSr settle, should give you coordinates close enough to average.

 

Good luck! :D

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If you want to place a cache, go for it. You don't have to have a creative container, especially if you take cachers to a nice location. :D

 

Load your GPSr with all the caches in that area that you haven't found, and the ones you have found. That will help ensure your cache is at least 528' away from any existing caches, in case the area where you want to place your cache already some.

 

If your GPSr has an Averaging feature, letting it sit and Average for several minutes should give you accurate coordinates. If it doesn't, taking several different waypoints, especially after approaching the location from different directions and letting the GPSr settle, should give you coordinates close enough to average.

 

Good luck! :huh:

 

I agree. Cool areas can hold a banal cache container. The point of a cool place cache is the place and not the hide or the container. When caches are placed in banal places then it is preferbable to hide them in a clever way. A banal container in a banal place makes for a banal experience. :)
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If you want to place a cache, go for it. You don't have to have a creative container, especially if you take cachers to a nice location. :D

 

Load your GPSr with all the caches in that area that you haven't found, and the ones you have found. That will help ensure your cache is at least 528' away from any existing caches, in case the area where you want to place your cache already some.

 

If your GPSr has an Averaging feature, letting it sit and Average for several minutes should give you accurate coordinates. If it doesn't, taking several different waypoints, especially after approaching the location from different directions and letting the GPSr settle, should give you coordinates close enough to average.

 

Good luck! :huh:

 

I agree. Cool areas can hold a banal cache container. The point of a cool place cache is the place and not the hide or the container. When caches are placed in banal places then it is preferbable to hide them in a clever way. A banal container in a banal place makes for a banal experience. :)

Word of the day calendar?
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When we hide, we really work hard to make the hide good.

 

What's funny is that another cacher with gozillion finds once told us that until we have 1000 finds we don't know how to hide a cache.

 

Of course, we blew off that comment. And that cacher's own hides, well... (invokes Thumper rule)

 

So, if you like to hide, hide. If you don't like to hide, don't. Just take some time before you make that new hide to think through your cache. Is it good? Will it hold up? Can you maintain it?

 

It usually takes us at least one or two months from conceiving a cache idea until placement.

 

- T of TandS

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If you want to place a cache, go for it. You don't have to have a creative container, especially if you take cachers to a nice location. ;)

 

Load your GPSr with all the caches in that area that you haven't found, and the ones you have found. That will help ensure your cache is at least 528' away from any existing caches, in case the area where you want to place your cache already some.

 

If your GPSr has an Averaging feature, letting it sit and Average for several minutes should give you accurate coordinates. If it doesn't, taking several different waypoints, especially after approaching the location from different directions and letting the GPSr settle, should give you coordinates close enough to average.

 

Good luck! :)

 

I agree. Cool areas can hold a banal cache container. The point of a cool place cache is the place and not the hide or the container. When caches are placed in banal places then it is preferbable to hide them in a clever way. A banal container in a banal place makes for a banal experience. :laughing:

Word of the day calendar?

It was a banal day... :laughing:
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There is no obligation at all to place caches. I wish some folks wouldn't place them actually.

 

I agree! If you aren't going to bother to maintain it, why place it in the first place. Also...don't place a cache if you can't handle the criticism of your cache! I have been criticizing caches in my area because the owners are negligent of them or hypersensitive to the comments people leave. I admit I've got to use more tact, but I really believe these people are too sensitive.

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Personally I think the only obligation is to be a good geocaching citizen. You may never feel the call to hide a cache but at the same time write truly appreciated logs that help others feel good about hiding a cache.

 

There are a lot of ways to make this a better activity for us all. Hiding caches is only one of them.

 

Oooh! I totally agree!

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Personally I think the only obligation is to be a good geocaching citizen. You may never feel the call to hide a cache but at the same time write truly appreciated logs that help others feel good about hiding a cache.

 

There are a lot of ways to make this a better activity for us all. Hiding caches is only one of them.

 

Oooh! I totally agree!

I agree. You should always put more effort into your logs for the caches that the owners put effort into. We need to encourage and reward those that are beacons for the game! :)
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When i say do in the title, i mean in your opinion. Ive been wondering about this one for ahwile, because although im still fairly new to the game (35 finds at time of post) i already have 2 easy caches, a fairly easy multi, a slightly harder multi that i part own with a freind and a puzzle cache that rates 4.5.

 

Im planning on placing another more cache soon and i have a container that i need to find a spot for. This got me thinking about other cachers and their find/hide ratio. Ive seen some cachers with multiple thousands of finds and no hides..it seems selfish to me that this happens because they obviously enjoy the game but only take and do not put into the game. I can understand that some cachers feel they arent ready to hide a cache, or cant for another reason, however, if they have so many finds, it would be considerate of them to go out of their way to place one, to keep the flow of new caches constant. In my view, a cacher should place a cache for every hundred finds at least, if not then more so. To hide a micro is so easy, find a spot..hide the micro with a piece of rolled up paper and you are ready to publish it. I don't think anyone can say they have never had an opportunity to place a cache, unless they are disabled or hampered otherwise. Don't take this topic as a rant, because its not. On the contrary, some cachers in my area with high finds have numerous caches placed, all being at the very least, interesting and some being devious puzzle caches. Your thoughts?

 

Lotho

 

I am a newbie. I have very few finds and only 1 hide. When I joined I read the fine print about placing caches and one of the guidelines to placing a cache is to maintain it. To me that means making regular visits to the cache, checking it after bad weather conditions, and keeping it stocked. I don't see how some cachers can claim 100+ cache hides without neglecting some of their caches, unless they are micros. Micros are another thing entirely. They require much the same maintenance as a regular cache, except the restocking.

 

I think it would be ridiculous to impose an obligation on cachers for placing caches. I have one, I maintain it well and visit it regularly. It's not a particularly difficult cache, but it is in a nice park. To me, maintaining that cache is enough. Maybe after it's been there a while I will disable it and place a new cache. In this way I might make 100 hides by the time I am 100, but I doubt it.

 

I haven't been around long enough to know better, but there should be awards for placing and maintaining caches...not just the quantity of caches placed. If you want quantity...help us place waymarks. They require little maintenance and they are all over the place!

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Does anyone have a clue why this thread keeps getting bumped???

If you dont have anything DECENT to say, dont bother saying anything. :)

 

I'm adding comments to this thread because its a good discussion. Since I am a newbie, I have not participated yet. I am bumpin it to participate with it. Good discussions are like that...they keep going. I believe aristotle started a few discussions that we are still having...anybody care to expalin that one! LOL! I think discussions are how we learn, and share great ideas. THANKS FOR THIS TOPIC! It's great.

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Does anyone have a clue why this thread keeps getting bumped???

If you dont have anything DECENT to say, dont bother saying anything. :)

I'm adding comments to this thread because its a good discussion. Since I am a newbie, I have not participated yet. I am bumpin it to participate with it. Good discussions are like that...they keep going. I believe aristotle started a few discussions that we are still having...anybody care to expalin that one! LOL! I think discussions are how we learn, and share great ideas. THANKS FOR THIS TOPIC! It's great.
Imagine you were at a party talking to some people and someone walked up and asked you why you were still talking about the same thing? I don't know about you, but I would view it as very rude. I think it is rude to do it in the threads as well. The threads are an online party. If people are talking then let them talk. :o
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At the present time, I only have one cache a Virtual in the Olympic National Park. We are retired and travel a lot so I adopted out my regular caches. I do feel a need to give back to the caching community. To do my little bit, I planned and conduct a GPS Accuracy Game in conjunction with the Shop99er's Spring Flings and GeoLuaus. I do all the organization and provide all the flags, etc. for conducting the game. I have a crack team who do all the actual work. Most have been with me since we started in the Spring of 2005. There is no shortage of caches here in Kitsap County, WA. I am 82 years old and about the only thing that still works is the mind and the mouth. Dick, W7WT

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At the present time, I only have one cache a Virtual in the Olympic National Park. We are retired and travel a lot so I adopted out my regular caches. I do feel a need to give back to the caching community. To do my little bit, I planned and conduct a GPS Accuracy Game in conjunction with the Shop99er's Spring Flings and GeoLuaus. I do all the organization and provide all the flags, etc. for conducting the game. I have a crack team who do all the actual work. Most have been with me since we started in the Spring of 2005. There is no shortage of caches here in Kitsap County, WA. I am 82 years old and about the only thing that still works is the mind and the mouth. Dick, W7WT
...and your typing fingers. :)
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