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Do/should cachers have an obligation to place caches?


Lotho
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When i say do in the title, i mean in your opinion. Ive been wondering about this one for ahwile, because although im still fairly new to the game (35 finds at time of post) i already have 2 easy caches, a fairly easy multi, a slightly harder multi that i part own with a freind and a puzzle cache that rates 4.5.

 

Im planning on placing another more cache soon and i have a container that i need to find a spot for. This got me thinking about other cachers and their find/hide ratio. Ive seen some cachers with multiple thousands of finds and no hides..it seems selfish to me that this happens because they obviously enjoy the game but only take and do not put into the game. I can understand that some cachers feel they arent ready to hide a cache, or cant for another reason, however, if they have so many finds, it would be considerate of them to go out of their way to place one, to keep the flow of new caches constant. In my view, a cacher should place a cache for every hundred finds at least, if not then more so. To hide a micro is so easy, find a spot..hide the micro with a piece of rolled up paper and you are ready to publish it. I don't think anyone can say they have never had an opportunity to place a cache, unless they are disabled or hampered otherwise. Don't take this topic as a rant, because its not. On the contrary, some cachers in my area with high finds have numerous caches placed, all being at the very least, interesting and some being devious puzzle caches. Your thoughts?

 

Lotho

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I think it is difficult to criticize something you have never done yourself. In the end, I think ALL geocachers should own at least one hide, if they have been active for a while. Having said that, I know their will always be those that are unable and/or unwilling to maintain a fixed location hide. So I understnad why at least some never do it.

 

There are a lot of ways to "give back" to the activity. Trade up, write descriptive logs, host/attend events, participate in these forums, volunteer for local groups, CITO and more. Many folks with zero hides do a lot of these other things.

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No. Cachers should only hide a cache if they feel the need to hide a cache and are able to maintain it. Some retired cachers spend most the year traveling in their RV's and really can't maintain a cache. There are probably many other reasons why someone couldn't maintain a lot of caches.

 

I believe that caches placed just to keep a certain hide to find ratio or a high hide count, results in lots of caches that are not well thought out or creative. While I don't think every cache needs to be great, I don't see the need to have lots of the so called "lame" caches. I'd rather people place fewer caches if that means they spend more thought on each one. Of course there are people who like numbers. They don't mind finding a lot of LPCs so long as there are lots of caches to find. I don't want to tell these people how to play. If they want more caches let them hide more. I just don't want them telling me that I need to hide a certain number of caches or else I'm not giving back to geocaching.

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As one of those cachers that have been around awhile with a low hide/find ratio, I can only offer my reasons. Whether others choose to accept them or not, is their call.

First off, I believe some folks get as much enjoyment from hiding as they do finding. I happen to be one of those who gets more joy in the finds. There are some in my area who have 100+ hides, so obviously they enjoy the hide aspect of the game. That being said, I am very active in the state groups and help in several events, either running games, or overseeing the event. I don't get hide credit for most of these actions,but this is just one way I give back to the sport, as opposed to hiding caches. I like to think my few hides are quality hides as opposed to simple P&Gs, but again that is very subjective.

And Yeah, what Criminal said.

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Personally I think the only obligation is to be a good geocaching citizen. You may never feel the call to hide a cache but at the same time write truly appreciated logs that help others feel good about hiding a cache.

 

There are a lot of ways to make this a better activity for us all. Hiding caches is only one of them.

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Interesting thoughts. Keep them coming.

 

At the risk of choosing a very bad analogy, this question seems a bit like "Do people have an obligation to have children?". I've seen arguments that there is a moral obligation on people to do this, if they're able.

 

Clearly, if a substantial majority of people don't reproduce, the species has a problem. But for any individual case, especially in the Western world, there are loads of good and bad reasons to have and not to have children. And we can all think of people who reproduce/place caches like it's going out of fashion, and we'd rather they didn't.

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To hide a micro is so easy, find a spot..hide the micro with a piece of rolled up paper and you are ready to publish it.

 

This quote is the reason I don't think cachers should be required to hide a cache. (I've never done one of your caches so this probably doesn't apply to you.) To many people that that fell obligated to hide a cache

 

1. Find a container they have laying around, you know old film canister, coffee can, pill bottle, any old container will do, doesn't even need to be waterproof

 

2. Find a hiding spot, that dumpster looks good, I'm at my kids school five times a week anyway, can't find anything to do while my husband gets his hair cut

 

3. Roll up some paper. This old store receipt will work, just got to scratch out my account number on this deposit slip.

 

4. Now publish, oh I forgot to get good coordinates. I'll use the gps to get some that are good enough, I mean how hard can it be to find a big green dumpster?

 

As for me I would rather see someone not hide a cache until they feel personally ready to hide. Then I will get a great, thought out, interesting cache. A Criminal Education

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I've hidden 101 caches currently, 88 are active. I definately don't want cachers "peer pressured" into hiding a geocache, to meet their obligation. The number one reason why this is a bad idea, is that it would lead to a large number of un-maintained caches, placed in crappy areas. These forced hides will most certainly meet the description of a geocache, but I doubt they will have much "wow factor."

 

I'd rather find caches hidden by cachers who want to hide caches, who are willing to maintain their caches, and hide caches in great locations.

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It's a good question, but each cacher will (and should) have a different answer. I waited until my 100th find to hide my first. Now that I'm past 200, I've got another one in the works. Am I using some kind of formula? No, I'm trying like folks have said before to hide caches I'd like to find. Cleverly placed in an interesting location, using the largest container that the site will hide/support. I want to make sure that the cache is well maintained, stocked with nifty swag and provides an enjoyable experience for those who choose to search for it. I'm not trying to keep a hides/finds ratio or anything, I'm just taking my time and looking for exceptional locations. My goal... long lasting hides that get good feedback from those who find them.

 

DCC

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I don't see an obligation anywhere. Placing a cache takes several resources of which some just do not have.

 

Some may feel obligated, but no where is this obligation listed on this site.

 

There are just too many variables to make it an obligation.

 

If you can- then i think you should. But in most instances if you do things right, it takes more effort than just throwing a film can under a lamp post without permission.

Edited by knight2000
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Eek! Sure! Force some people to do what they are not good at! So what if the cache in the guardrail only survives for a week? It's good for a smiley!

Some people are good at hiding caches. I know some people who have almost as many hides as they do finds! And those are usually great hides! And I know people who put out lots of hides, and have a lot of finds. But, they never maintain their hides. Ad there are the well-meaning people new to the sport who have five finds and three hides before they give up geocaching. Not the most inspired hides that I've seen.

I'm at 1 for 60. I like my hides! And I maintain them. Harrumph! My brother called one of my hides the 'lamest hide I've ever seen'! (He missed the satire.)

And, when I'm ready, I'll hide a few more! But only when I'm ready, and QC approves.

Never force anyone to do anything that they don't want to do, or are not qualified to do.

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There are places which need more caches and those which have enough, how many caches is too many? Aside from areas which are cache poor why would anyone suggest that everyone is obligated to hide a cache? Many people simply arent capable of measuring accurate coordinates and so many are a flash in the pan. We have loads of caches out there which aren't being maintained because a new cacher felt obligated to hide a cache and a few months later they quit caching. A better rule of thumb would be that the serious cacher who's in it for the long haul should hide caches provided they are up to maintaining them.

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I am one who likes to hide caches.And so is my 5 year old grandson.I have alot of hides and I am going through them and archiving the ones that for one reason or another are LAME to me(I am progressing).I will still hide more caches when I find an interesting spot but will not place them like I used to when I was new to the sport.If it was up to my Grandson we would have a cache at every stump between here and Canada.

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No. Cachers should only hide a cache if they feel the need to hide a cache and are able to maintain it.

 

I believe that caches placed just to keep a certain hide to find ratio or a high hide count, results in lots of caches that are not well thought out or creative. While I don't think every cache needs to be great, I don't see the need to have lots of the so called "lame" caches. I'd rather people place fewer caches if that means they spend more thought on each one.

I agree with these points.
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I don't think people should feel on obligation to do anything. too close to guilt. obligation implies to me that other people think I should so I must. I chose to do things at my own pace. I feel an obligation to visit my mother, so I do. That doesn't make it a good visit though. place a cache when you have the perfect spot, a good container and a clear view of the sky :)

 

hunt them when you want, hide them when you want, do it for the logs that say "WOW nice cache thanks for bringing me here."

 

bwmick

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If you feel you should place a cache, obligated, don't let it eat at you to the point you put one in a garbage dump. Resist the temptation 'gotta place one'. Think about it from the cache finder side, is it interesting, what's the muggle population like, parking, safety. I've walked away from caches placed at highway asphalt/garbage sites. The view isn't all that great. ... Know what I mean?

 

Slug away.

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I like them (caches) all...as long as there is a log book and not more then 2 question. I really like placing caches, some quality, some easy, some park and go and I just love micros (all kinds), after all it is just a game. You can play or you can elect not to play on selected caches. It is a great game/sport, and heck of a challenge. I'm just glad and happy that I'm not addicted. Happy caching

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Oblicated to just throw a cache out there, no, this is something that we were actually critized on when we first started, finding but not placing. We place caches we want to place in places we want to place a cache in when we want to place a cache, if it were a requirement in a ratio, I don't think I would be happy about it. To find a cache, someone needs to hide caches, but if you are just going to toss out caches, then you should think about why you are placing caches, for enjoyment or feel obligated, if the latter, then you should rethink why you geocache.

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I would like to figure out why some people like to hide caches, but don't seem to care about the locations they put them in . . . :)

 

What's up with that? :)

 

It would be one thing if someone was "obligated" to place a cache they didn't want to hide, but to be "inspired" to hide a cache, and then put it in a trash pile next to a busy road . . . :)

 

Oh well . . . back to the subject of the thread . . . :)

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I would like to figure out why some people like to hide caches, but don't seem to care about the locations they put them in . . . :)

 

What's up with that? :)

 

It would be one thing if someone was "obligated" to place a cache they didn't want to hide, but to be "inspired" to hide a cache, and then put it in a trash pile next to a busy road . . . :)

 

Oh well . . . back to the subject of the thread . . . :)

I think those kind of caches add to their "hide" numbers. :)
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Not all cachers may have the funds, knack, or ability to place caches. In Criminal's response, he made reference to the quality of the caches, and not everyone has the ability to visualize great hides as they pass. When persons without that ability place caches, you get WalMart LPCs.

 

Placing a cache also takes funds, though not that much. Certainly, this depends on the cache you wish to place, the swag you wish to start it with, and the transportation to place and maintain the cache properly. For many, caching might be a way to get enjoyable family time on a budget. Food, shelter, and transportation for work would come before placing a cache, at least to all but the most hard-core tupperware hunter.

 

Then too, there may be those that just don't have the common sense to place a good cache. Then, we see the bomb squad called out! (Note to self --- best rethink that black pipe placed outside the sheriff's offic before activation!) :laughing

 

Edit to add, see also Star Brand's quote in above post.

Edited by Trucker Lee
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(Note to self --- best rethink that black pipe placed outside the sheriff's office before activation!) :laughing

 

Edit to add, see also Star Brand's quote in above post.

What's wrong with that? :P Any bets that there's some yo-ho in these threads that would think that a pipe placed outside the sheriff's office is perfectly OK.... :anitongue:

 

I also agree with StarBrand's quote above. B)

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Literature, sculpture, paintings- We can enjoy them extensively, and never once feel that we ought to create an original, although we may wish we had that talent. Students can learn without having to become teachers, patients can be healed without deciding to enroll in med school medicine, although sometimes we are inspired us to do so by the experience.

 

There are some things in life that we get to enjoy from one perspective. We can 'take' from the experts and artists in those fields without feeling guilty. Of course, we do 'give back' to our artists, teachers, and doctors in the form of payment, publicity, etc.

 

The creation of a good geocache requires skill, abilities, opportunities, and natural talents that not all of us possess. Just because we don't create geocaches doesn't mean that we don't 'give back' in some way. We give back by visiting the caches, by writing good logs, by telling others about them, by performing minor maintance to them, by trading even or trading up in them, and so forth.

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Literature, sculpture, paintings- We can enjoy them extensively, and never once feel that we ought to create an original, although we may wish we had that talent. Students can learn without having to become teachers, patients can be healed without deciding to enroll in med school medicine, although sometimes we are inspired us to do so by the experience.

 

There are some things in life that we get to enjoy from one perspective. We can 'take' from the experts and artists in those fields without feeling guilty. Of course, we do 'give back' to our artists, teachers, and doctors in the form of payment, publicity, etc.

 

The creation of a good geocache requires skill, abilities, opportunities, and natural talents that not all of us possess. Just because we don't create geocaches doesn't mean that we don't 'give back' in some way. We give back by visiting the caches, by writing good logs, by telling others about them, by performing minor maintance to them, by trading even or trading up in them, and so forth.

This is a good post. I don't think we all have to be artists but we all can try to find cool places to take people on their day off. I just got back from vacation and got a chance to do a few caches. The ones I remember and will remember are the ones that were in cool places. I really think we all capable of hiding caches in spots like those. If you don't know of a cool spot then wait because I bet you'll find one and then you can share it with the rest of us! :anitongue:
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I would like to figure out why some people like to hide caches, but don't seem to care about the locations they put them in . . . B)

 

What's up with that? B)

 

It would be one thing if someone was "obligated" to place a cache they didn't want to hide, but to be "inspired" to hide a cache, and then put it in a trash pile next to a busy road . . . B)

 

Oh well . . . back to the subject of the thread . . . :P

I think those kind of caches add to their "hide" numbers. :anitongue:

I think it's a bit more of "If I hide these caches, then my buddies can have those smiles. Then, they'll do the same for me!" It's a "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" sort of smilie chasing.

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I would like to figure out why some people like to hide caches, but don't seem to care about the locations they put them in . . . B)

 

What's up with that? :P

 

It would be one thing if someone was "obligated" to place a cache they didn't want to hide, but to be "inspired" to hide a cache, and then put it in a trash pile next to a busy road . . . B)

 

Oh well . . . back to the subject of the thread . . . B)

I think those kind of caches add to their "hide" numbers. :anitongue:

I think it's a bit more of "If I hide these caches, then my buddies can have those smiles. Then, they'll do the same for me!" It's a "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" sort of smilie chasing.

That's true too. But we have a couple out here that have hidden enough you-know-whats to get their backs scratched for hundreds of years... B)
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Literature, sculpture, paintings- We can enjoy them extensively, and never once feel that we ought to create an original, although we may wish we had that talent. Students can learn without having to become teachers, patients can be healed without deciding to enroll in med school medicine, although sometimes we are inspired us to do so by the experience.

 

There are some things in life that we get to enjoy from one perspective. We can 'take' from the experts and artists in those fields without feeling guilty. Of course, we do 'give back' to our artists, teachers, and doctors in the form of payment, publicity, etc.

 

The creation of a good geocache requires skill, abilities, opportunities, and natural talents that not all of us possess. Just because we don't create geocaches doesn't mean that we don't 'give back' in some way. We give back by visiting the caches, by writing good logs, by telling others about them, by performing minor maintance to them, by trading even or trading up in them, and so forth.

Couldn't agree more.

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Never hid a cache in the year I've been geocaching. Just over 330 finds.

 

I did replace a destroyed cache with a suitable container and filled it with nice new swag, though.

 

There are a lot of good caches in my area. I'd like to see someone else place a good cache in a nice park, rather than deprive them from hiding it due to my lame cache being there.

 

If there was a shortage of caches, that would be another thing. But currently, there are still over 130 caches within 10 miles of home THAT I HAVE NOT YET FOUND, and the number is growing.

 

Now, I DO plan on placing a couple of good caches eventually. I want them to be memorable, and have been collecting swag and other items for that day. Maybe sometime soon, I don't know.

 

So, until then, I'll leave hiding caches to those who truely love hiding them.

 

----------------------------------------

 

Guess what my kids got me for Father's Day? THREE ammo boxes and tons of great swag. Looks like I'll be hiding some caches after all.

Edited by michigansnorkeler
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I would like to figure out why some people like to hide caches, but don't seem to care about the locations they put them in . . . :P

 

What's up with that? B)

 

It would be one thing if someone was "obligated" to place a cache they didn't want to hide, but to be "inspired" to hide a cache, and then put it in a trash pile next to a busy road . . . B)

 

Oh well . . . back to the subject of the thread . . . B)

I think those kind of caches add to their "hide" numbers. :anitongue:

I think it's a bit more of "If I hide these caches, then my buddies can have those smiles. Then, they'll do the same for me!" It's a "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" sort of smilie chasing.

 

Then when all of members of the "group" find the gift caches, they get archived, and "new" caches get placed in the same locations. B)

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There are some caches that have lots of hides that I would like stop placing caches.

Some of there hides are of very poor quaility.

By poor quality, I mean caches that are on the inside of sewers, drainage pipes, Homeless camps, dumpster hides that make lamps post hides look good.

I once went for a FTF less than an hour after it was posted, the cache was in a pile of trash in some bushes, I decided not to bother with it. After several other cachers complained of the placement the owner disabled the cache.

Not every place needs a cache

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I would like to figure out why some people like to hide caches, but don't seem to care about the locations they put them in . . . B)

 

What's up with that? B)

 

It would be one thing if someone was "obligated" to place a cache they didn't want to hide, but to be "inspired" to hide a cache, and then put it in a trash pile next to a busy road . . . B)

 

Oh well . . . back to the subject of the thread . . . :P

I think those kind of caches add to their "hide" numbers. :anitongue:

I think it's a bit more of "If I hide these caches, then my buddies can have those smiles. Then, they'll do the same for me!" It's a "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" sort of smilie chasing.

Then when all of members of the "group" find the gift caches, they get archived, and "new" caches get placed in the same locations. :P
This is true. Numbers mania can be pretty entertaining if you stand back and observe it in action. If you've never seen the movie It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World you should watch it. The behavior is similar. B)
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In my opinion, there's no obligation (or oblication, either) in this sport beyond good ethical behavior. (you can review the efforts of others in creating a cacher's code). If you place caches, then (in keeping with your own personality) you will face those normal anxieties - just waiting for those confirmation emails, etc. Excitable, extroverted people often place a bunch or caches (not necessarily quality ones). Thoughtful people may be slow to join the effort, but then do a good job. You can argue that finders SHOULD be hiders, but I disagree. Only if you choose to be.

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we'uns have four cache's hidden and when they where hid, we'uns asked ourselves: would i like to come to this area and hunt for a cache? is this place a good place for folks to come to? will this hide enlighten or delight folks who come to find it? will folks be able to find the cache?(we have one that's beside the road out by ourn horse pasture that's hard to spot) and finally is this spot for a cache to hard to get to and to dangerous for folks to hunt for?

 

i guess what i'm trying to say is think before you place a cache and put yourself in a thought process of someone else that will be looking for the hide. who wants to look in dumpsters for a cache anyway??

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...I'm trying like folks have said before to hide

caches I'd like to find. Cleverly placed in an interesting location,

using the largest container that the site will hide/support. I want to

make sure that the cache is well maintained, stocked with nifty swag

and provides an enjoyable experience for those who choose to search

for it. I'm not trying to keep a hides/finds ratio or anything, I'm

just taking my time and looking for exceptional locations. My goal...

long lasting hides that get good feedback from those who find

them.

 

I have to agree with what everyone has said, especially DCC here.

We've got 6 caches hidden, and they are all ones that I would enjoy

finding. I have a lot more ideas (many bad) that are either in the

works, or there are places that we would like to place a cache, but

can't figure out exactly how to make it a quality cache.

Until I can make them what I feel is a quality cache, they will remain unplaced.

 

I enjoy hiding caches, and love receiving the find log emails. Do some

people take (find) from the sport and not give (hide)? It might seem

so, and I'm sure there are those who do. That is just part of life,

though. Many of those who do give, give back in many ways, often not

obvious ways (as was already stated). Holding events, getting together

informally, mentoring newer cachers, mentoring younger cachers (my

girlfriend have met some wonderful couples who are very encouraging

and supportive of our relationship), CITO, etc.

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