Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 13
jdwest32

TOPO 2008

Recommended Posts

It might be worthwhile considering where the data come from and how the maps are generated. There is no way that Garmin is doing ANY of the data generation for this; they acquire the data just like everyone else. You too can get the data from the USGS. ....

 

Hynr is partially correct that the original data come from USGS. They also come from a couple of other US Government agencies. These days, most of the GPSR manufacturers buy their data from NavTeq, who start with the government data, but do a bit of editing and compression.

 

Second point, though, is how the data get displayed. Unlike software such as National Geographic's Topo! and the 1:24k maps in Delorme's Topo USA, the hypsographic and political displays on GPSRs are NOT scanned from the original USGS engraved plates (with the exception of Delorme's new GPSR). "Political" data are the line data, such as state and county boundaries, city information, and the road and similar information. They are drawn on the fly from line files that are similar to (but not directly) the USGS line files. The big difference is that to vectorize them in a form that fits into today's GPSRs, a fair amount of cutting of the list of points making up a line has to be done. On the engraving plates from which the USGS paper maps are printed, real humans cut the lines into the metal plates (with the aid of engraving machines), where in your widget, the lines (hypsographic, streams, roads, etc) are drawn point to point from the vector line file. That's ok for roads in rectilinear cities, where the town is laid out in a grid pattern, or for state boundaries where they are "straight" lines (they are really great circles or small circles on the surface of the Earth, but look straight in the tiny few-mile segments on the map).

 

A third point is the way altitudes (or depths) are displayed for points, both on the GPSR maps and on the computer maps such as NatGeo's Topo! and Delorme's Topo USA. These are computed from a grid of altitude points (stored in the files as lat/lon/altitude). When you mark a point on the map, the altitude of that point is computed by interpolating the 4 points bounding the box in which the point lies (I mean on the map as it appears on the screen of your computer, not the GPS-derived or barometric altitude displayed by your GPSR). These grids come from the USGS DEM files (Digital Elevation Model). In some areas, the grid is 100 meters on a side, while in others it is 1 km or even larger. Over time, USGS has been issuing smaller grid spacings. When you run the cursor over the map, if that mountain peak happens to be in the middle of a square, the software will show it as lower than if the grid happened to place a grid point right on the peak (in some parts of the grid, there are supplemental points placed on important peaks and other locations).

 

So some of the differences you are seeing in the 2008 version are due to more points used in defining the lines for contours, some due to finer grids of elevation data, and, yes, some due to updated surveys. I will have to say, though, some just plain baffle me - like the positions of some roads along coastlines that end up with the road running some distance off-shore. Well, no, the reason is that someone did not check on the points used to define the line delineating the coast and those defining the road to see if they were compatible. Unfortunately, mapmaking still has a large artistic component. Be grateful that the maps aren't still showing sea monsters in the water areas.

Edited by OGBO

Share this post


Link to post

SAPD, Thanks for the help. I loaded everything I needed last year and didn't remember the specifics of loading what I need in a set. I'm also wondering if I need to buy the City Navigator at full price since I have City Select or if Garmin will allow an upgrade? I hope that they would considering how many hundreds of $ I've spent on their software already. Let's see: City Select, US Topo, Canada Topo, US Parks Topo, and finally Topo 2008. You do the math! Thanks for the help everyone.

Photomaniac

Edited by photomaniac

Share this post


Link to post

Quick question, I know that the new 2008 Topo won't but did the old topo allow for routing on the GPS?

Edited by jcc123

Share this post


Link to post

The 1:24K scale national parks version supports autorouting, the 1:100K scale standard topo version does not.

Share this post


Link to post

I am running CN 8 and US TOPO.....is TOPO 2008 much better than US TOPO? or would I just be let down if I purchased it also?

Share this post


Link to post

I am running CN 8 and US TOPO.....is TOPO 2008 much better than US TOPO? or would I just be let down if I purchased it also?

 

See my review on the first page of this thread. If you already have really good street maps (city Nav) then the streets in Topo 08 are at best redundant, and not as high a quality as what you already have. the Topographical, stream, road and trail data that you currently have compare similarly to Topo 2008. Really the big thing you would be gaining by purchasing T08 is the ability to do vertical route profiling on the GPS unit.

Share this post


Link to post

It's just a big farce. These companies are just doing some bandaid improvements at best and they will sell wether they are comprehensively complete or just rolled out for market.

As a National Map Corp volunteer, I offered my completed and comprehensive survey of my map assignment to Garmin, Delorne, National Geographic, and I had no takers.

The bottom line is the CEO's are stuffing their pockets with your money, and they will continue to milk you.

Share this post


Link to post

SAPD, Thanks for the help. I loaded everything I needed last year and didn't remember the specifics of loading what I need in a set. I'm also wondering if I need to buy the City Navigator at full price since I have City Select or if Garmin will allow an upgrade? I hope that they would considering how many hundreds of $ I've spent on their software already. Let's see: City Select, US Topo, Canada Topo, US Parks Topo, and finally Topo 2008. You do the math! Thanks for the help everyone.

Photomaniac

 

Photomaniac, last year I upgraded my City Select NA v5 which came with my 3yr old iQue-3600 to City Navigator NA v8 for US$75. It wasn't a bad deal.

Share this post


Link to post

Quick question, I know that the new 2008 Topo won't but did the old topo allow for routing on the GPS?

 

No

Share this post


Link to post

I am running CN 8 and US TOPO.....is TOPO 2008 much better than US TOPO? or would I just be let down if I purchased it also?

 

See my review on the first page of this thread. If you already have really good street maps (city Nav) then the streets in Topo 08 are at best redundant, and not as high a quality as what you already have. the Topographical, stream, road and trail data that you currently have compare similarly to Topo 2008. Really the big thing you would be gaining by purchasing T08 is the ability to do vertical route profiling on the GPS unit.

 

What about the terrain shading? Does that transfer to the GPS also?

Share this post


Link to post

What about the terrain shading? Does that transfer to the GPS also?

No, terrain shading only displays in MapSource.

Share this post


Link to post

UPDATE: Was just able to successfully load 383 maps with 199.6 MB used. Just was being

a bit difficult. GPS prob. a women.

 

--danny

 

Umm, yeah right. A more likely reason is operator error.

Share this post


Link to post

What about the terrain shading? Does that transfer to the GPS also?

No, terrain shading only displays in MapSource.

 

WTF?! Can't then get anything right?

Share this post


Link to post

Having never seen TOPO in action I have a question I haven't seen addressed here. I believe that I'd like the ability to see trails and mountain roads - that sounds great to me. However, I'd REALLY like to see campgrounds. Not commercial type campgrounds but the US Forest Service and State campgrounds. Are any of these shown on the TOPO maps? I hate it that my City Select maps don't include this info and I'm hoping that TOPO might have the info. If the campgrounds are shown I would definitely purchase the software. Is this info included?

Share this post


Link to post

My dad and I are getting ready to set off on a five week trip to Alaska. We are ordering a Garmin 60cx(our first unit) for the trip. We wanted a GPS to do some geocaching as well as to just have one with us up there. I have heard that the basemaps are next to useless. We already own a copy of the older maps and I am curious about how much better the TOPO 2008 is than the older version and if it would be worth it to invest in it.

How good is the coverage of Alaska...it sounds a bit iffy to me.

Please reply soon as we are leaving July 8th.

oliveman_3@yahoo.com

Share this post


Link to post

Elevation being off is a difficult thing to quantify. Elevations are certainly different than those in the older Topo for a lot of mountain peaks, but if you go to the USGS gnis site you will find that the elevations listed there are not the same as either product in some cases. If you look at paper copies of the maps the 1:24,000 series often lists a different number than the 1:100,000 series. There are differences/problems to be sure, but I'm not sure Garmin is to blame.

 

Contour interval varies. Around where I live on So. Calif. it is 150 ft (major contours at 450 ft).

 

Check Garmin Mapviewer for areas of interest to you.

 

Huge improvement over the earlier version.

 

Phil

Share this post


Link to post

The 1:24K scale national parks version supports autorouting, the 1:100K scale standard topo version does not.

 

I think it is. Better contour data, names on roads, etc.

 

Phil

Share this post


Link to post

TOPO 2008 won't be much better than the current maps.

 

Please stop spreading FUD. these new maps are much improved(at least in my area) most of the major flaws with the old topo are now gone: street data being 40years old, topo data being mediocre, no POI data base for gas stations, ect.

yes you can get by with the old topo maps(especially if you have city navigator) but if you want a much better product, buy the new topo 2008.

Share this post


Link to post

Okay, I gotta ask. Is this new Topo Macintosh compatable or did Garmin bone us again?

Share this post


Link to post

Okay, I gotta ask. Is this new Topo Macintosh compatable or did Garmin bone us again?

 

Garmin has not yet released the Mac OSX version of Mapsource.

 

It is very likely that when they do, you will be able to use Topo 2008, and all of the other Garmin maps that use Mapsource, with you Mac running OSX.

Edited by Barrikady

Share this post


Link to post

Okay, I gotta ask. Is this new Topo Macintosh compatable or did Garmin bone us again?

 

Garmin has not yet released the Mac OSX version of Mapsource.

 

It is very likely that when they do, you will be able to use Topo 2008, and all of the other Garmin maps that use Mapsource, with you Mac running OSX.

 

Thank you for your response Barrikady.

Share this post


Link to post

After reading all these posts and looking at a sample of the data on the Garmin site, I'm appreciating more the topo I used in France. It did not have street names (just route numbers, which are most often not marked for drivers), but it did have routing and the trail level of detail was so fine that city staircases (between roads) were marked. However, it was a regional version (just the south east), which could explain that level of detail. This was a topo map too, not a city map.

 

Why isn't there one perfect product out there???

 

I have no maps for the US, and given that I have nav in my car, I will probably purchase the 2008 US topo.

 

By the way, the French topos are not so easy to get -- the stores you would expect it at have to order it. I found mine in a smaller specialty shop. So for anyone expecting to go over there are purchase what you want on the spot, might want to do some investigation well before leaving. The MapSource Europe maps advertised on the websites over here in the Americas are definitely *not* everything available. Here's a site for example: http://www.gpstopo.fr/index.php that has the French topos that work great on the Garmin 60csx. Germany is a more activie geo-caching country, so they probably have good stuff there as well.

Share this post


Link to post

Having never seen TOPO in action I have a question I haven't seen addressed here. I believe that I'd like the ability to see trails and mountain roads - that sounds great to me. However, I'd REALLY like to see campgrounds. Not commercial type campgrounds but the US Forest Service and State campgrounds. Are any of these shown on the TOPO maps? I hate it that my City Select maps don't include this info and I'm hoping that TOPO might have the info. If the campgrounds are shown I would definitely purchase the software. Is this info included?

I'm not sure about 2008, but Topo USA does show the USFS campgrounds-- even the obscure backcountry ones. The problem is, you can't search for them. They show up on the map as map points when you scroll around, but there is no actual list to search. It's the same with all the springs, peaks, etc... Was this changed for 2008? If so, that would be a major improvement.

 

EDIT: just to clarify, I can search for keyword "campground" on my CPU and find the USFS campgrounds-- I just can't search for them on the actual unit.

Edited by Cache Heads

Share this post


Link to post

The maps are awesome, you can get the new Topo 2008 maps here, they have them in stock

 

I found Chumbo (one of my favorite resellers) had it for $75 or such. It was so low that they can barely keep it on the shelf, but they said they get shipments almost daily. TigerGPS wouldn't even price match.

 

I highly recommend Chumbo.com

Share this post


Link to post

The Mapsource software comes with whatever maps you purchase. If you purchase older Topo maps, you will then want to download the Mapsource Update from the Garmin site, as well as the Patch.

 

If you purchase new maps, they will presumably be up-tp-date, for a while, anyway. :o

Share this post


Link to post

I've been waiting years for Garmin to upgrade their Topo USA. Now that they have I probably won't bother with it because I have now have CN v8 loaded to show streets, and I've also been spoiled by the National Parks 1:24 scale maps. Now I guess I'm waiting for 1:24 Topo USA, if that ever happens.

Share this post


Link to post

Well I compared that same area on my old topo to my new topo, and the marked location of the mountain peak is located at the same spot on both topos. By looking at the two though, I think that the new version is a much better representation of the terrain than the old that has broken contours and less of them. Plus, I think when somebody is near the peak, it will probably stick out :lol: , so it shouldn't be hard to find.

 

Oldtopo.jpg

Topo2008.jpg

 

Wait woah, is that the way it appears on your gps, with the shadows and everything?

Share this post


Link to post

Does anyone know if there is a way to use the TOPO 2008 without having the dvd in the drive?

Share this post


Link to post

Well I compared that same area on my old topo to my new topo, and the marked location of the mountain peak is located at the same spot on both topos. By looking at the two though, I think that the new version is a much better representation of the terrain than the old that has broken contours and less of them. Plus, I think when somebody is near the peak, it will probably stick out :lol: , so it shouldn't be hard to find.

 

Oldtopo.jpg

Topo2008.jpg

 

Wait woah, is that the way it appears on your gps, with the shadows and everything?

 

Nope. Mapsource only.

Share this post


Link to post

$48.87 at Amazon after rebate (for upgrading from older version), and free shipping too.

Edited by geo climber

Share this post


Link to post

$48.87 at Amazon after rebate, and free shipping too.

 

I just checked the details of that rebate, and it's only good if you are upgrading from an old version of Mapsource US Topo. http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/0..._V31778602_.pdf

 

I think the price is 109.98 minus the $30 rebate. The $78.87 seems to be the OLD mapsource topo. The first sale date was Jan, 2007 way before the 2008 product was available and the old picture is shown as well.

Share this post


Link to post

Does anyone know if there is a way to use the TOPO 2008 without having the dvd in the drive?

You should be able to download the DVD into your hard drive and run it that way.

Share this post


Link to post

kinda weird the first time I used it it asked for the dvd, but i tried it again and it worked.

Share this post


Link to post

Can someone with the new Topo 2008 look at the Oregon coastal areas for me before I purchase it and let me know if they would recommend it. There is the Oregon Dunes area between Coos Bay and Florence as well as many many numbered logging roads on the hills between Coos Bay and Reedsport and I5 that will give me an idea of how detailed it is for Oregon. I'm particulary interested in the logging roads and many back roads between Hwy. 101 and I5. Also interested in the elevation scales. Do you think it would be good to buy if it were to be used in these areas?

 

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post

Can someone with the new Topo 2008 look at the Oregon coastal areas for me before I purchase it and let me know if they would recommend it. There is the Oregon Dunes area between Coos Bay and Florence as well as many many numbered logging roads on the hills between Coos Bay and Reedsport and I5 that will give me an idea of how detailed it is for Oregon. I'm particulary interested in the logging roads and many back roads between Hwy. 101 and I5. Also interested in the elevation scales. Do you think it would be good to buy if it were to be used in these areas?

 

Thanks

 

We can look at the area in question, but we don't know you area the way you do,. The best thing is to use Garmin's Map view on their website to find the area you are looking for. go here and click the Topo US 2008 viewer in the upper right hand corner.

Share this post


Link to post

"We can look at the area in question, but we don't know you area the way you do,. The best thing is to use Garmin's Map view on their website to find the area you are looking for. go here and click the Topo US 2008 viewer in the upper right hand corner."

 

Thanks! That's just what I needed. It doesn't have what I'm looking for in that area but now I can look at others thanks. Nice of them to let you try before you buy.

Edited by Oregon*Trail

Share this post


Link to post

$48.87 at Amazon after rebate, and free shipping too.

 

I just checked the details of that rebate, and it's only good if you are upgrading from an old version of Mapsource US Topo. http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/0..._V31778602_.pdf

 

I think the price is 109.98 minus the $30 rebate. The $78.87 seems to be the OLD mapsource topo. The first sale date was Jan, 2007 way before the 2008 product was available and the old picture is shown as well.

 

The old picture is shown, but the description and title is for the new one. Also, you can get it cheaper than 109. I got it from TigerGPS for about 84.

Share this post


Link to post

Ok, I purchased Topo 2008 this weekend and it is far better than the base map. Let me ask this - I loaded about 900 maps to my GPS60CSX and on the map set-up page, under map name, it seems to list the names of all the tiles I loaded? How in the world would I ever turn these maps off if I later install City Nav?

Share this post


Link to post

Ok, I purchased Topo 2008 this weekend and it is far better than the base map. Let me ask this - I loaded about 900 maps to my GPS60CSX and on the map set-up page, under map name, it seems to list the names of all the tiles I loaded? How in the world would I ever turn these maps off if I later install City Nav?

 

when you are on the map setup page and have map setup - Information highlighted(where it shows map name) press the menu button. this will bring up a much easier to use show/hide map screen, where you can show/hide the entire mapsets.

To me it doesn't even make any sense why garmin has the screen that allows you to hide map segments individually, then it just requires more button presses to achieve my goal.

Edited by hogrod

Share this post


Link to post

So big deal, they took data from USGS Seamless Distribution and improved the contours. I could do that in my sleep. They did add shaded background not supported by GPSmapedit, I'll give them that. But what about roads and POIs?

Show me the roads, and other features! Don't blow smoke in my face and say its a fog coming in!

Share this post


Link to post

So big deal, they took data from USGS Seamless Distribution and improved the contours. I could do that in my sleep. They did add shaded background not supported by GPSmapedit, I'll give them that. But what about roads and POIs?

Show me the roads, and other features! Don't blow smoke in my face and say its a fog coming in!

 

You can check out the topo 2008 mapviewer on garmins website, the new map has much improved roads over the previous version(all roads are now even named). The road maps though are no where near as current as the city navigator maps, probably because they aren't using the same Navteq map data as city navigator.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 13

×
×
  • Create New...