+Alligorpion Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 I started caching recently and have noticed through the forums that a lot of you cachers use 2 way radios. I have looked at quite a few on the store websites but I would appreciate any good or bad feedback from other cachers as to which ones do the job and which one to avoid. Also, is a license required ? I don't mind buying a license to use one if the radio itself is worth having.... Help keep an old man from pulling his hair out !! lol Quote Link to comment
+Too Tall John Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 The frs channel used by geocachers is "2" which is in the range a license isn't needed for. Most radios nowadays come with the (higher power) channels that require a license, keep this in mind when looking at the package's claims of range. As far as which radio to get, I've got both Cobras & Motorolas, which haven't failed me yet. I'd recommend getting a rechargeable setup. Batteries are expensive. I must say I've only cached with a radio once, and that was because I was with a large group that split up into 3 and I wanted to maintain contact. I don't have the impression that cachers in my area carry them, but I may be very wrong (as I generally don't carry one so I'd miss the traffic.) I'd urge you to check in you local forums or at an event in your area to see how many people use them when you are deciding if you want to get a radio. That said, they are very useful for many things besides geocaching, so you should, of course, weigh that too. Quote Link to comment
+Knight2000 Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 We use them often. There are 4 of us. They particularly come in handy while someone waits in car and relays info to the cache seekers particularly late at night. We also use them when at stores. They are super handy. Quote Link to comment
+traildad Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 I started caching recently and have noticed through the forums that a lot of you cachers use 2 way radios. I have looked at quite a few on the store websites but I would appreciate any good or bad feedback from other cachers as to which ones do the job and which one to avoid. Also, is a license required ? I don't mind buying a license to use one if the radio itself is worth having.... Help keep an old man from pulling his hair out !! lol I use these radios when I ride my ATV. They work very well if you use the high power channel. I have never used the low power channels. Most of the radios have both the high and low power channels. Legally you can only use the low power channels unless you pay for a license. I don't know, but I bet lots of people use the high power channels and never get the license. They work great to keep in touch with the group you are in, but I wouldn't think you could reach out far enough to contact other cachers unless you happened to be in the same local area and on the same channel and privacy code. Pretty high odds unless a local group uses a channel and privacy code. Quote Link to comment
+TheAlabamaRambler Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 (edited) I wouldn't mess with them except that's what my friends use. I own six pair, different brands, price and quality, and none of them are worth having. From the lowliest $20 off-brands to the "guaranteed 17 mile range" $80 Motorolas to the very expensive purpose-built Bellsouth commercial radios it is my experience that if I can't hit you with a rock then I likely can't talk to you! That's obviously an exaggeration, but not by much - none of them can be counted on to work more than 1/4 in the city and perhaps 1/2 mile in the open country. Results in the open desert or from hiltop to hiltop may be better. To get anywhere near the "guaranteed 17 mile range" of the Motorolas you'd both have to be in boats at sea with tall external antennas, favorable atmospheric conditions and God on your side. The biggest problem with these radios is, of course, that they are what everyone else uses, so you have little choice! Yes, you are required by law to have a license to transmit on the GMRS bands (but not FRS). The license costs more than most sets of radios. I personally don't know anyone who has gotten said license, for whatever that's worth. I tried to get the active cachers in our local community to use Nextel PTT radio-phones, that didn't fly. I am a ham (Amateur Radio Service) operator and tried to promote ham radio as the best mode of communications for geocachers - the $15 test and license and $100 investment in a 2-meter ham radio is evidently prohibitive. So the answer is that FRS/GMRS is probably the worst solution technically, but the only solution if you want to talk to geocachers. Here's a link to real-world expectations from FRS/GMRS and CB radios - http://www.thetravelinsider.info/2003/0815.htm Have fun... get your ham ticket and encourage other cachers to do so as well... talk 60 miles instead of feet for about the same money! Ed 73 de W4AGA Edited June 15, 2007 by TheAlabamaRambler Quote Link to comment
+StarBrand Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Keep in mind that these radios are basically line-of-sight only. The max distance for them is under ideal conditions with nothing between the 2 radios. My experience is that is you are as much as .2 to .3 miles away with even a small hill inbetween they do not work. Trees also reduce the range rapidly. Work great in open areas though. I am not impressed with them. I have a pair of the Garmin Rino GPS but rarely use them as I tend to cache in hilly terrain. Have found them useful while in other situations. Only heard another cacher 1 time on ch 2. Quote Link to comment
+Gator Man Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 GARMIN RINO 110's and 120's combine FRS radio and GPS in one unit. Quote Link to comment
+Criminal Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 (edited) More info here. If you use GMRS, get the license. WPZU728 Edited June 15, 2007 by Criminal Quote Link to comment
+Thrak Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 I've used radio when caching exactly one time. It was a cache designed to utilize radio. It was a multi-stage cache where the clues for the lower route were contained in the stages of the upper route and the clues for the upper route were contained in the lower route so it required cooperation between two people in order to proceed. Other than that I've never had need for radio capability when geocaching. In an emergency situation the range is so limited that it would almost certainly be useless. Quote Link to comment
+Too Tall John Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 More info here. If you use GMRS, get the license. WPZU728 Thanks for the link and the article!The antenna's height above the ground is the greater determining factor of the FRS radio's range. The higher you can get your antenna, the farther you can transmit and receive.So, there are advantages to being tall! Do you happen to know if the $75/5 year price is still accurate? Quote Link to comment
+TotemLake Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 I have a Motorola 7200 FRS/GMRS and at GMRS transmit level of 2 watts, I was able to communicate through old growth forest easily 2 miles away from Criminal. That's using a 7 mile line of sight radio. The problem with all radios is they depend on line of sight and few obstacles to be in the way to be really effective at long distances. You can't get much better with HAM handhelds without the use of repeaters and that's where the advantage is at. Amateur radio has been around long enough there is a repeater within touch of the typical 2-5 watt handheld. FRS is a good general use radio for keeping in touch with folks in your nearby group. FRS is very limited by virtue of the power it is allowed to transmit; at 1/2 watt. That's good for about 1/4 mile in old growth. If the radio is transmitting at anything higher than 1/2 watt, it is by FCC rules transmitting at a GMRS level and should be licensed use. GMRS handhelds transmit typically at anything upward from .6 watts to 2 watts, and can transmit much further; as much as 2 miles in old growth as I indicated above. Amateur radios have access to repeaters which can let you communicate for a ton of miles, but on their own, are good for about 2-3 miles in old growth. If anybody wanted to set one up, there are GMRS repeaters although not nearly as effective. To depend on FRS/GMRS for emergency communications would probably be folly although it has been successfully done from as far as 75 miles distance. That's one radio near a mountain top to a line of sight radio down below in the best of conditions. I have had traffic on my FRS/GMRS from Seattle interfere with communications on a mountain 20 miles away; again, line of sight and they weren't able to hear us. That being said, when you're out in cell phone hell, a FRS/GMRS radio IS barely better than nothing. Putting it on scan will allow you to track if anybody is nearby if you need help. If you can hear them, they might be able to hear you. Quote Link to comment
+wandererrob Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 (edited) FRS is handy for communicating with your own group, but as mentioned above pretty near useless for any real distance. That being said I have several and use them a lot on road trips to keep contact between us and our friends in the next car, or when 4-wheeling so the rigs keep communicate. Also handy among friends that are out of earshot but now very far away. Given the licensing requirement, and it seems few are doing so, why ARE the combo FRS/GMRS units so widely made now? Are people just ignoring/ignorant of the regs? Or is there more licensed use out there than we happen to be witness to? Edited June 15, 2007 by wandererrob Quote Link to comment
+rdaines Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 I was caching this Spring with my wife in the Arizona desert, temps were in the low 90s. I, with GPS in hand, marched off from the car in search of the cache in question and I thought the wife was right behind me. I reached the cache and did what was necessary expecting my wife to show at any minute. Not so. I then hiked back to the car expecting to see her there, not so. Not overly worried I assumed she was nearby taking pictures so I called out. No answer. I checked the cell phone and saw no signal. Still not worried I decided to honk the car horn, still no answer. I waited to see if see got within hearing range and honked again. Still nothing. Now I'm getting concerned. All kinds of things start going through your head as you wonder if it's time to panic. Fortunately, she came along the dirt trail, camera in hand asking who was honking the horn. Next time we will have radios. Quote Link to comment
+ke6n Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Next time we will have radios. Or at least some sort of protocol or plan... On the subject of ham radio and geocaching, I'm kind of lucky in that regard. We have about a dozen or so people in our group who have ham licenses. And through talking on the local repeaters to each other, our group seems to be growing. It's fun when one of us is out geocaching and gets on the radio between stops. We find that there are others in our group who are also not busy and we meet up to go searching together. Quote Link to comment
+Alligorpion Posted June 17, 2007 Author Share Posted June 17, 2007 I want to thank you all for some very helpful input !! It would seem that the gmrs/frs radios arent that reliable for what I do most.. Hiking in heavy cover and I'm also planning a trip in Sept to hike the Ocala forest trails. I will probably get the middle of the road frs radio for the times that I might be be near another cacher, But I am going to go for the 2 meter ham license for reliable communication in times of need. After reading Alabama Ramblers post I did a little more research on the 2 meter band and was surprised to see that the FCC has dropped the code requirement for the tech license. If it hadn't been for the code part, I would have gone Ham years ago when the CB radios were so popular. Again, Thanx for all the feedback here. It really helped me to make my decision Quote Link to comment
+TheAlabamaRambler Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 I want to thank you all for some very helpful input !! It would seem that the gmrs/frs radios arent that reliable for what I do most.. Hiking in heavy cover and I'm also planning a trip in Sept to hike the Ocala forest trails. I will probably get the middle of the road frs radio for the times that I might be be near another cacher, But I am going to go for the 2 meter ham license for reliable communication in times of need. After reading Alabama Ramblers post I did a little more research on the 2 meter band and was surprised to see that the FCC has dropped the code requirement for the tech license. If it hadn't been for the code part, I would have gone Ham years ago when the CB radios were so popular. Again, Thanx for all the feedback here. It really helped me to make my decision Good deal! You won't regret it! Since they dropped the Morse Code requirement for licensing, the first level of license, Technician, is a no-brainer and the second, General, can be studied for and passed in a single day. Join the American Radio Relay League (ARRL) arrl.org, they have lots of free study prep online, as does QRZ.com. I use a subscription service at HamTestOnline.com that I believe to be the fastest simplest easiest way to study for any level of amateur license. Just keep in mind that while amateur radio opens up great communications capabilities it really doesn't help with geocaching - we have 1000+ members in our Alabama Geocachers Association and less than 50 are hams! Everyone else uses FRS/GMRS. AND, the FCC, in its infinite wisdom, made GMRS a separate licensing requirement, one not covered by your ham license - even licensed hams have to buy the silly GMRS license!!!! The GMRS license is a money-grab by the FCC, bad law that will eventually die the way licensing for CB radio did - unenforceable at best, but for now it is the law. Quote Link to comment
+kg6dfh Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 I own a RINO 120. It is a GPS with built in FRS/GMRS Radio's. One of the cooler features is the fact that when you communicate with other RINO users, their location will show up on your GPS screen. Don't have to ask, "where are you?" Being a HAM Operator is the best. Carry a small 4 or 5 watt 2 meter transmitter, and hit the local repeaters. The radio's can be the size of a pack of cig's, without the antenna of course. I prefer a radio of more substance, and carry a Yaesu VX170 or my Icom W32 dual bander. Quote Link to comment
+Alligorpion Posted June 18, 2007 Author Share Posted June 18, 2007 I have found a local club that offers classes and testing... soo it looks like I'm on my way !! Currently Im looking at handhelds and I really like the yaesu vx-170.. Are there any others in the $130 to $180 price range I should consider ? I remember the Yaesu name from my CBing days and always liked them Quote Link to comment
+MileHighAko Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 (edited) I just got my ham radio ticket, both Technician and General license. If you're smart enough to use Geocaching.com, enter coordiates in a GPS, and find a cache, you'll find the ham radio test quite easy. Here are my recommendations on how to do it: 1. Go to your local ham radio shop (I chose ham radio outlet (hamradio.com)) and buy the ARRL Ham Radio License Manual (red book) for $20. Its an easy read, and has all of the questions you'll find on the test along with the answers. You can also buy online at www.arrl.org, or you might find it at your local library. 2. If you're not comfortale with amateur radio after reading the book and would like to learn more before taking the test, find a local ham club (listed on www.arrl.org) and just show up at one of their meetings and ask questions. You can even join the club if you want, but its not required. Hams LOVE to talk about ham radio, especially to new potential hams, and they always welcome newcomers. 3. Look for a testing site listed on www.arrl.org. The exam cost $14 (cheap). I took my test at the local fire station (they do it once a month at that location... in the Denver area I found that you can find the test being given at least once a week somewhere in the greater metro area). 4. Get a rig and get on the air! Why go for a ham instead of using FRS/FMRS? Here is my short list: 1. With ham, I can use local repeaters to talk over huge distances. 2. I can use repeaters connected to the Internet to talk all over the world (I'd love to see a coordinated multi-state cache event that requires real-time communication using IRLP or EchoLink). 3. With my ham radio, I can listen to police, fire, rescue teams, and communicate with them in an emergency. 4. With my ham radio I can listen to local CB, FRS, and GMRS traffic if I want. 5. I can listen to the national weather service, and be instantly notified of local weather alerts. 6. APRS! Automated Position Reporting System. I can plug my GPS into my ham radio, and beacon my location, allowing friends and family to see my location on a map (check out http://www.googleaprs.com/). I could go on and on. Ham radio is a great supporting technology for geocachers. Enjoy! Edited June 25, 2007 by MileHighAko Quote Link to comment
+Criminal Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 3. With my ham radio, I can listen to police, fire, rescue teams, and communicate with them in an emergency. Uh, you can do what now? Quote Link to comment
+MileHighAko Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 3. With my ham radio, I can listen to police, fire, rescue teams, and communicate with them in an emergency. Uh, you can do what now? Just what I said. For example, the local Sheriff/EMS dispatch where I live operates on 151.110. With my little Yaesu VX-7R HT (fantastic radio by the way), I can transmit and contact them directly in an emergency (of course you wouldn't want to do so unless it was a true emergency, and then in that case you would use any means necessary to get help). Last week I was in the mountains and was listening to the the forest service coordinate the creation of some fire break lines. If there was an emergency, I could have contacted them directly to seek help (Note: if my cell phone was working, I'd call 911. But if I were in a situation where I didn't have cell phone servce or similar access, I wouldn't hesitate to use any means necessay to get emergency help). A few other great things about ham radio when it comes to emergencies: 1. In amateur radio there is a "wilderness protocol" established to address emergency needs for folks that are outside of repeater range. The protocol is a suggested set of simplex frequncies to monitor at specific times in case others have emergency or priority calls. 2. Here in Colorado, there are many areas in the mountains where cell phone service dosen't work, but you can still hit a local ham repeater, which is configured with an autopatch, allowing you to make phone calls from your ham radio. 3. When the power is out or normal phone communications are overloaded or not working, ham radio still works! Quote Link to comment
+TheAlabamaRambler Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 I have found a local club that offers classes and testing... soo it looks like I'm on my way !! Currently Im looking at handhelds and I really like the yaesu vx-170.. Are there any others in the $130 to $180 price range I should consider ? I remember the Yaesu name from my CBing days and always liked them I have had a number of HTs (handi-talkies) but always come back to my IC-T90a as the best all-around HT I have ever seen! I love this rugged little radio and use it with my SAR-K9 and disaster-relief work as an HT and use it in my car as a mobile - when connected to a Diamond Super-Gainer Tri-band mobile antenna I get into repeaters from 20-25 miles out (depending on terrain). Having the rechargeable batteries (which have good service life) replaceable by an AA battery pack is simply invaluable for extended field operations! Give this little jewel a look before you buy something else. Ed 73 de W4AGA (Whiskey For the Alabama Geocachers Association!) Quote Link to comment
+Criminal Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 3. With my ham radio, I can listen to police, fire, rescue teams, and communicate with them in an emergency. Uh, you can do what now? Just what I said. For example, the local Sheriff/EMS dispatch where I live operates on 151.110. With my little Yaesu VX-7R HT (fantastic radio by the way), I can transmit and contact them directly in an emergency... I think that's going to cause a fight. A fight between the FCC and the police over who is going to get a shot at you first. Quote Link to comment
+MileHighAko Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 I think that's going to cause a fight. A fight between the FCC and the police over who is going to get a shot at you first. Which part? Scanning the frequencies in my area is perfectly legal (some states do have restrictions), so there is no foul there. But If I'm out in the woods and find a hiker that has fallen over a cliff, and the only way to get help is to talk over a police frequency, I'm going to do it. The governer might give me a medal at the same time the FCC takes away my license. So what? Its worth it to save a life if thats what it takes. Besides, part 97 of FCC rules does provide some protection in an example like this, and its more likely the Sheriff and FCC rep will attend the medal ceremony. I think the point that you're trying to make (correct me if I'm wrong) is that you better be darn sure it is a life or death type of emergency before you go freeband, else you're going to find yourself in trouble. I agree completely. Losing your keys isn't an emergency. Losing your two-year old in a river is. Quote Link to comment
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