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I am proud of my country...but why do you lend the ancient name to a foreign country?


YanniG
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Our participation (Shrek & Fiona's) in this forum is intended to raise awareness for this issue, not to try and force anyone to accept anything. So please do not feel like we are 'attacking' you in any way.

Thanks: awareness successfully raised, I think. I was only trying to highlight that perhaps the issue is not as clear-cut as the OP inferred, so Groundspeak had simply tried to take what appears to be the logical decision (i.e. use the last known official name).

 

I agree completely... after all, if we were going to get hot under the collar about the name of any country is should be the Isle of Man... I mean come on people... are Women not allowed there? My wife would be so offended?

Thankfully, women are very much allowed here! B)

 

What's in a name, after all - I've recently been to the beautiful Greek islands of Ithaca / Ithaki / Ithaka and Kefalonia / Cephalonia... wish I was there now, even though it's a superb sunny day here, and the sea looks as blue as the Mediterranean!

 

I'd take either... Granted I can see the monuments of downtown Washington D.C. and I'm overlooking the Pentagon... but the bulk of what I see are steel, concrete, traffic, noise. Ah... the isles. I'll take just about any of them over this!!

 

But wait a minute... Ithaca isn't in Greece... it's in New York!!! B):ph34r::D:D

 

Just kidding!!

 

Greece is also in New York! Right next to Rochester! B)

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My name is Chip.

 

My real name is Roy. I am named after my father, but have really never been called Roy at all except on official documents, or perhaps when I go to the doctors office.

 

I really prefer to be called Chip. When people meet me as Roy, it usually doesn't take long for them to get to know me as Chip.

 

Chip is what I call myself and what my friends call me even though there is no documentation really for this being my name.. And, I have been called Chip from birth.

 

No matter what you call me I am going to "educate you" about who I am. This is what is important.

 

I think in such a political situation I would take the time to "educate" people in a positive way to understand my people, who we are, and our past. This is what is important. If you call us the Stink Butts, but have come to respect us, and come to be our friends, I will be happy.

 

In a friendly and positive way, help us to get to know about you and your heritage and you will be respected. And you will appreciate what people think about you, and your personal issue with this will go away...

 

Of course on the other hand- If you don't care what I think about you, or how I feel about you, but, what I call you is most important? Let me know and I'll probably call you that, but will really never get to appreciate who you are! ...and that is sad...

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My name is Chip.

 

My real name is Roy. I am named after my father, but have really never been called Roy at all except on official documents, or perhaps when I go to the doctors office.

 

I really prefer to be called Chip. When people meet me as Roy, it usually doesn't take long for them to get to know me as Chip.

 

Chip is what I call myself and what my friends call me even though there is no documentation really for this being my name.. And, I have been called Chip from birth.

 

No matter what you call me I am going to "educate you" about who I am. This is what is important.

 

I think in such a political situation I would take the time to "educate" people in a positive way to understand my people, who we are, and our past. This is what is important. If you call us the Stink Butts, but have come to respect us, and come to be our friends, I will be happy.

 

In a friendly and positive way, help us to get to know about you and your heritage and you will be respected. And you will appreciate what people think about you, and your personal issue with this will go away...

 

Of course on the other hand- If you don't care what I think about you, or how I feel about you, but, what I call you is most important? Let me know and I'll probably call you that, but will really never get to appreciate who you are! ...and that is sad...

 

Seriously... we can call you Stink Butt... Cool!!

 

Wait... that's probably not what you intended by this post is it?

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I work - fortunately, not in a political capacity, except whem Microsoft/Linux fights come up B) - in an international organisation where "the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" is a member.

 

On a day-to-day basis, everyone in our offices, including the Greek staff, talks about "Macedonia". Nobody has a problem with that. But for protocol purposes, when the newspapers may be watching, it's "the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia". With the quote marks.

 

This gets particularly interesting (this may be a definition of the word "interesting" with which not everyone here was previously familiar :ph34r:) when it comes to arranging countries in alphabetical order. The Greeks vetoed filing "FYROM" under "M" because it would imply recognition of the name "Macedonia". The Macedonians weren't too keen on "Former" or "Yugoslav". In the end, the compromise was... "The". Yes, "the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" is sandwiched between Switzerland and Turkey.

 

If I were Groundspeak, I think I'd say "dude, we just take the list of countries we get from Microsoft. Talk to Bill". B) Or maybe everything could be done using ISO numberic country codes or Web domains ("This cache is in .mk; call it what you like"). But even then, someone will place one in a disputed zone...

 

(Actually, if I were really Groundspeak, all country and state references would be removed from the site. We know where the cache is - the freakin' GPS tells us :D)

 

Incidentally, there's another example like this which causes real, practical caching problems. There is a province of Belgium called "Luxembourg" (without the quotes :D) and it's right next to the country called Luxembourg. And because Belgium is one of the very few countries to have its provinces listed (how did that happen, by the way?!), caches in this province show up, depending on which listing you're looking at, either in "Luxembourg, Belgium", or even just "Luxembourg".

Edited by sTeamTraen
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:ph34r: Well the only positive that i can see is that out there are people who realy know history.

Please do not feel that we attack someone.Even our friend from F.Y.R.O.M.

I don't understand why it is so strange and weird if i ask to be write correct the name of this counrty according the UN lists?

Many of you they can't feel how it is to surrount by Albania (who want to take the city of Giannena and Preveza) by FYROM (who want to take my history) by Boulgaria (who want to take Thrace) and of course Turkey (who they already take the half Cyprus-and the capital Lefkosia is the only capital in Europe under capture) also Turkey want the Aegean sea because of the oils

So please if you dont know the problem,first learn about it .Only this way you will have an opinion.

 

And after that if you still have the opinion that say give FYROM your history give Albania the city of Giannena and Preveza give Boulgaria the Thace (this is my born place) and give Turkey the other half of Cyprus and Aegean sea it is your right .But let me have my right to protect my country and let me the right to have you my ENEMY

 

My best wishes to all

sakis

 

PS please someone from FYROM or Macedonia can ''explain'' to me the meaning of word ''Macedonia''?

i don't think that there is any body

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I work - fortunately, not in a political capacity, except whem Microsoft/Linux fights come up B) - in an international organisation where "the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" is a member.

 

On a day-to-day basis, everyone in our offices, including the Greek staff, talks about "Macedonia". Nobody has a problem with that. But for protocol purposes, when the newspapers may be watching, it's "the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia". With the quote marks.

 

This gets particularly interesting (this may be a definition of the word "interesting" with which not everyone here was previously familiar :ph34r:) when it comes to arranging countries in alphabetical order. The Greeks vetoed filing "FYROM" under "M" because it would imply recognition of the name "Macedonia". The Macedonians weren't too keen on "Former" or "Yugoslav". In the end, the compromise was... "The". Yes, "the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" is sandwiched between Switzerland and Turkey.

 

If I were Groundspeak, I think I'd say "dude, we just take the list of countries we get from Microsoft. Talk to Bill". B)

 

(Actually, if I were really Groundspeak, all country and state references would be removed from the site. We know where the cache is - the freakin' GPS tells us :D)

 

I think it would be fun if we all local names for countries!!

 

Local Name

Afghanestan

Shqiperia

Al Jaza'ir

Andorra

Angola

Hayastan

Oesterreich

Azarbaycan Respublikasi

Al Bahrayn

Byelarus

Belgique (French) or Belgie (Flemish)

Belice

Drukyul

Bosna i Hercegovina

Brasil

Republika Bulgariya

Kampuchea

Cabo Verde

Republique Centrafricaine

Tchad

Zhong Guo

Comores

the Republique du Congo

the Republique Democratique du Congo

Hrvatska

Kypros (Greek) or Kibris (Turkish)

Ceska Republika

Danmark

Republica Dominicana

Misr

Guinea Ecuatorial

Ertra

Eesti

YeItyop'iya

Suomi

Republique Francaise

Sak'art'velo

Deutschland

Ellas

Magyarorszag

Island

Al Iraq

Eire

Yisra'el

Italia

Nippon

Al Urdun

Qazaqstan

Choson or Choson-minjujuui-inmin-konghwaguk

Taehan-min'guk

Al Kuwayt

Kyrgyz Respublikasy

Sathalanalat Paxathipatai Paxaxon Lao

Latvija

Lubnan

Lietuva

Makedonija

Dhivehi Raajje

Muritaniyah

Mongol Uls

Al Maghrib

Mocambique

Myanma Naingngandaw

Nederland

Norge

Uman

Belau

Pilipinas

Polska

Rossiya

Al Arabiyah as Suudiyah

Slovensko

Slovenija

Espana

As-Sudan

Sverige

Schweiz (German), Suisse (French), Svizzera (Italian)

Suriyah

T'ai-wan

Jumhurii Tojikistan

Muang Thai

Togo

Tonga

Tunis

Turkiye

Ukrayina

Al Imarat al Arabiyah al Muttahidah

Uzbekiston Respublikasi

Santa Sede (Citta del Vaticano)

Viet Nam

Al Yaman

 

*Note: I left off all the ones who's common english name is the same as the local name.

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So, when someone else uses this ancient name of country region of yours as his country name don't you feel offended?

I can tell you feel very strongly about this, but remember:

 

Grudges prevent peace. Tolerance encourages peace.

 

The continuous exchange of revenge is a death spiral – just ask the Israelis and the Palestinians. Or the Sunnis and the Shiites. I wouldn’t think you would want to encourage that sort of thing in your own neighborhood. Refusing to let anyone get away with “insulting” you will only serve to promote an ensuing exchange of hate, and your own children may be the ones who will inherit the suffering.

 

I’m not a trained diplomat, just an observer, and I’m embarrassingly ignorant about the geography, history and current issues of your area, but: as I understand you, it is nothing more than a gesture that has been made by this other country. They haven’t threatened or attacked you. Is that right? If they’re not actually trying to hurt you, why let a mere gesture bother you?

 

If a neighbor offends you with words, just smile and ignore it – even if you believe the offence to be intentional. Be a good example to all the other neighbors.

 

If this other country tries to do any real harm, you should fight back. If they’re merely behaving rudely, however, just smile and wave a friendly hello, and go on about your daily business.

 

Ancient grudges are very difficult to remove, but removing them is the only road to peace, wouldn’t you say? If your children and their children could somehow grow up beside each other without any parents around to ‘teach’ each of them how to hate the other side, there would be no more anger or hate, only peace. Why teach anger and hate to the next generation?

 

Just let it go, if you can, and try not to let it bother you. Doing so will not make you look weak; quite the contrary, in fact. :ph34r:

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:ph34r: Well the only positive that i can see is that out there are people who realy know history.

Please do not feel that we attack someone.Even our friend from F.Y.R.O.M.

I don't understand why it is so strange and weird if i ask to be write correct the name of this counrty according the UN lists?

Many of you they can't feel how it is to surrount by Albania (who want to take the city of Giannena and Preveza) by FYROM (who want to take my history) by Boulgaria (who want to take Thrace) and of course Turkey (who they already take the half Cyprus-and the capital Lefkosia is the only capital in Europe under capture) also Turkey want the Aegean sea because of the oils

So please if you dont know the problem,first learn about it .Only this way you will have an opinion.

 

And after that if you still have the opinion that say give FYROM your history give Albania the city of Giannena and Preveza give Boulgaria the Thace (this is my born place) and give Turkey the other half of Cyprus and Aegean sea it is your right .But let me have my right to protect my country and let me the right to have you my ENEMY

 

My best wishes to all

sakis

 

PS please someone from FYROM or Macedonia can ''explain'' to me the meaning of word ''Macedonia''?

i don't think that there is any body

 

A little harsh on the whole "right to have my ENEMY" thing, I think.

 

I think most of us understand that there are tensions here... and that many countries lay claim to regions outside their territories. However, this is a hobby/game site and it must accomodate the locals in the regions who participate in the game.

 

It's not about knowing the correct history of a place or the political ramifications of the naming of a country. That should be left to the politicians. Until then... I'd just say, have a little thick skin about the naming thing and enjoy the hobby. If you don't like seeing caches with Macedonia as their location (there are only 17) then just put them on your ignore list.

 

If it's so much more important than that... then lobby your government to work with the UN and your neighbor to the north to hurry up and resolve the issue.

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What would you think if you went to a country that THE MAJORITY of the 375 or so caches would be unavailable for logs and Found?

I'd think "Wow, this is about as stupid as a hunger strike."

 

Geocachers place caches because they enjoy having people find and visit their caches. You'd really only be hurting yourselves (and probably whipping yourselves that much more into a fury over somethin, the root problem, you really have no personal say about.)

 

But if you think that disabling 375 geocaches is really going to be the tipping point for your country's dispute over names, you go for it! :ph34r:

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I don't understand why it is so strange and weird if i ask to be write correct the name of this counrty according the UN lists?

I think that we established that the UN list gives the correct name as "Republic of Macedonia". :ph34r:

 

Here we go again!

 

Where in the UN pages does it state that? I thought that we've established that the UN uses a provisional name (i.e. The FYROM) to refer to that country. As far as the UN is concerned there is no official name for that country yet, pending the resolution of the dispute between the two countries.

 

regards,

Shrek & Fiona

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:ph34r: Well the only positive that i can see is that out there are people who realy know history.

Please do not feel that we attack someone.Even our friend from F.Y.R.O.M.

I don't understand why it is so strange and weird if i ask to be write correct the name of this counrty according the UN lists?

Many of you they can't feel how it is to surrount by Albania (who want to take the city of Giannena and Preveza) by FYROM (who want to take my history) by Boulgaria (who want to take Thrace) and of course Turkey (who they already take the half Cyprus-and the capital Lefkosia is the only capital in Europe under capture) also Turkey want the Aegean sea because of the oils

So please if you dont know the problem,first learn about it .Only this way you will have an opinion.

 

And after that if you still have the opinion that say give FYROM your history give Albania the city of Giannena and Preveza give Boulgaria the Thace (this is my born place) and give Turkey the other half of Cyprus and Aegean sea it is your right .But let me have my right to protect my country and let me the right to have you my ENEMY

 

My best wishes to all

sakis

 

PS please someone from FYROM or Macedonia can ''explain'' to me the meaning of word ''Macedonia''?

i don't think that there is any body

 

Open minded tolerance of others, their practices and lives is a major part of making this world a nicer place for HUMANS to live. Don't get stuck typing people by race or history, but instead get to know them and their world before being judgmental. The posts in this thread seem to have the wrong focus- nobody can steal your history. But they can cherish it and honor it along with you. I have never seen such poisonous posts as the ones insisting they have the right to insist that Geocaching.com change a country name because they don't like it.

 

It amazes, astounds and saddens me to read this thread. It really is too bad you can't enjoy this hobby without bring politics and racism into the mix.

-J

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:ph34r: I still can't get it why you people can not understant the most simple think in the world?

why it is weird when i ask to change the name Macedonia to FYROM according the UN lists?

And please don't talk for peace .You invate to Iraq to Afganistan to Yuogoslavia to Vietnam to Somalie .........

sorry endless list.

I have 4 counrties ready to invate to Greece.(not neccesary with weapons,but with take my history and if i give this tommorow they will ask somethink else and the day after somethink more and one nice morning i will see all this AlbanianSkopianoBoulgarianTurkish in front of my door).

You know i think Hawaii is not in USA and Foclands not in British.

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:ph34r: I still can't get it why you people can not understant the most simple think in the world?

why it is weird when i ask to change the name Macedonia to FYROM according the UN lists?

And please don't talk for peace .You invate to Iraq to Afganistan to Yuogoslavia to Vietnam to Somalie .........

sorry endless list.

I have 4 counrties ready to invate to Greece.(not neccesary with weapons,but with take my history and if i give this tommorow they will ask somethink else and the day after somethink more and one nice morning i will see all this AlbanianSkopianoBoulgarianTurkish in front of my door).

You know i think Hawaii is not in USA and Foclands not in British.

 

I still dont get it why You feel your opinion should dictate the operation of a worldwide site?

Thats a pretty simple conecpt isnt it? "you ask to change the name" - OK, so you have an opnion.

Then you bring in the political carp, and put that spin on it. - that kind of defeats any claim you may have had.

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:ph34r: I still can't get it why you people can not understant the most simple think in the world?

why it is weird when i ask to change the name Macedonia to FYROM according the UN lists?

And please don't talk for peace .You invate to Iraq to Afganistan to Yuogoslavia to Vietnam to Somalie .........

sorry endless list.

I have 4 counrties ready to invate to Greece.(not neccesary with weapons,but with take my history and if i give this tommorow they will ask somethink else and the day after somethink more and one nice morning i will see all this AlbanianSkopianoBoulgarianTurkish in front of my door).

You know i think Hawaii is not in USA and Foclands not in British.

 

History is a fickle fickle thing and contrary to your belief, it is not the simplest thing in the world. With respect to the people in caching community who live in disputed country, they are offended by the term FYROM. Their constitutional name, recongnized by many members of the UN, and refered to in many UN writings is the "Republic of Macedonia".

 

Lets not get personal about the invasions of Iraq to Afghanistan, Yugoslavia to Vietnam and Somlia etc... remember, the Greeks invaded most of those areas well before the US ever did. The people here who talk about peace, mean what they say, and you should really give them the respect that they are due.

 

I don't think The Macedonian Province of Greece is in any danger of losing its history, culture or provenance because the people to their north are using the name, or lay historical claim to some of the territories currently within the geopolitical boundaries of the Greece.

 

The fact is, from ancient times to the present, the geo-political boundaries of Macedonia have fluctuated many times. Much of what is currently in the geo-political boundaries of the FYROM was at one time part of the Macedonian Kingdom (from what I have read). The fact that the people in region are looking to the history of their land and not necessarily the history of their slavic origins is something that should be taken up with the education system in their country.

 

The problem you have is a political one, not a geocaching one. The name used by the people in their particular community should not be offensive to THEM. That it offends you, is really your problem. You can simply ignore their 17 caches and not attend any of their events.

 

Your concerns, while valid, are not of concern to the geocaching community. You aren't going to be overrun by the hordes of "Macedonian Wannabee" geocachers from the north and lose your country to their geocaching ways.

 

If you want to do something about this, join with Shrek and Fiona and work on a way of educating the people who visit your great nation about its history, and lobby your government to resolve the issue with all the parties involved.

 

Best Regards,

BRTango

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An overview of the Politics

After reading 3 websites- 2 Greek and the 1 listed above I have read enough angst and political spinning for the day.

I found the above to be a decent overview, maybe not fully neutral but at least informative. I may research to find out how accepted the information is on another day.

 

At this point it is useless to try to change Geocaching as they should wait for the issue to be settled.

 

But I think they need to change all country names to match the locally used ones. :blink:

-J

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:blink: I still can't get it why you people can not understant the most simple think in the world?

why it is weird when i ask to change the name Macedonia to FYROM according the UN lists?

And please don't talk for peace .You invate to Iraq to Afganistan to Yuogoslavia to Vietnam to Somalie .........

sorry endless list.

I have 4 counrties ready to invate to Greece.(not neccesary with weapons,but with take my history and if i give this tommorow they will ask somethink else and the day after somethink more and one nice morning i will see all this AlbanianSkopianoBoulgarianTurkish in front of my door).

You know i think Hawaii is not in USA and Foclands not in British.

 

History is a fickle fickle thing and contrary to your belief, it is not the simplest thing in the world. With respect to the people in caching community who live in disputed country, they are offended by the term FYROM. Their constitutional name, recongnized by many members of the UN, and refered to in many UN writings is the "Republic of Macedonia".

 

Lets not get personal about the invasions of Iraq to Afghanistan, Yugoslavia to Vietnam and Somlia etc... remember, the Greeks invaded most of those areas well before the US ever did. The people here who talk about peace, mean what they say, and you should really give them the respect that they are due.

 

I don't think The Macedonian Province of Greece is in any danger of losing its history, culture or provenance because the people to their north are using the name, or lay historical claim to some of the territories currently within the geopolitical boundaries of the Greece.

 

The fact is, from ancient times to the present, the geo-political boundaries of Macedonia have fluctuated many times. Much of what is currently in the geo-political boundaries of the FYROM was at one time part of the Macedonian Kingdom (from what I have read). The fact that the people in region are looking to the history of their land and not necessarily the history of their slavic origins is something that should be taken up with the education system in their country.

 

The problem you have is a political one, not a geocaching one. The name used by the people in their particular community should not be offensive to THEM. That it offends you, is really your problem. You can simply ignore their 17 caches and not attend any of their events.

 

Your concerns, while valid, are not of concern to the geocaching community. You aren't going to be overrun by the hordes of "Macedonian Wannabee" geocachers from the north and lose your country to their geocaching ways.

 

If you want to do something about this, join with Shrek and Fiona and work on a way of educating the people who visit your great nation about its history, and lobby your government to resolve the issue with all the parties involved.

 

Best Regards,

BRTango

 

Dear BRTango,

 

Again, we are really glad that people like you take the time to consider this issue and see this from the correct perspective. You are absolutely right in everything you say. To be honest we (Shrek & Fiona) did not expect to see this many sympathetic people regarding this issue and from what we read here it seems that people really try to understand this problem. At least us we are really glad to belong to a community that is willing to listen to our worries. You are absolutely right when you say that the geocaching venue has nothing to do with politics and we hope that this thread will stop here. Like we said for us is enough to know that there are people out there trully open minded and willing to listen. We will not continue with this thread as we feel that everything that we could say on the matter has been said. If other members of the Greek geocaching community feel differently...well that is another issue but I assure you that none of them means any wrong doing...some get over excited about this sensitive issue.

 

Best regards and happy caching from,

Shrek & Fiona

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....Now, after the fall of communism in Eastern Europe and the break-up of Yugoslavia the people living in what is now called FYROM became an independent nation. So they have a need to define their national identity, history and heritage. THIS IS WHERE THE PROBLEM LIES. They claim that they are descendants of Alexander the Great and the ancient Greek tribe of Macedon. They do this because they would like to have a glorius past and history. For us however, history proud Greeks (and we have every right to be so), this is unnacceptable. We will not allow someone else to distort history and historical facts in order for them to built themshelves a heritage. ...

 

Reading some of the history, if they do infact occupy the area that was Macedonian...and Alexander the great was the son of a Macedonia King how is this not their heritage? Not borrowed, or stolen, merely what is? They would have to be another people who moved into the area and pushed out the Macedonians.

 

However as I understood it, the Macedon Tribe was Greek, and so what's the problem?

 

Did I mention my wife is Prussian? Where is the justice? Those Pesky Poles renamed all the towns, regions, and did thier best to obliterate the Prussian heratage of their country.

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....Now, after the fall of communism in Eastern Europe and the break-up of Yugoslavia the people living in what is now called FYROM became an independent nation. So they have a need to define their national identity, history and heritage. THIS IS WHERE THE PROBLEM LIES. They claim that they are descendants of Alexander the Great and the ancient Greek tribe of Macedon. They do this because they would like to have a glorius past and history. For us however, history proud Greeks (and we have every right to be so), this is unnacceptable. We will not allow someone else to distort history and historical facts in order for them to built themshelves a heritage. ...

 

Reading some of the history, if they do infact occupy the area that was Macedonian...and Alexander the great was the son of a Macedonia King how is this not their heritage? Not borrowed, or stolen, merely what is? They would have to be another people who moved into the area and pushed out the Macedonians.

 

However as I understood it, the Macedon Tribe was Greek, and so what's the problem?

 

Did I mention my wife is Prussian? Where is the justice? Those Pesky Poles renamed all the towns, regions, and did thier best to obliterate the Prussian heratage of their country.

 

About 1000 years after Alexander, there was a Slavic invasion which forced the majority of the greek Macedonians south. The Slavs have been in the region ever since.

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"Macedona, The FYR" ? Even UN has the name listed like that in their drop down lists among their websites.

 

Sounds fine to me. I'll wait for the sun to flick back to Europe to get some responses from the locals.

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...About 1000 years after Alexander, there was a Slavic invasion which forced the majority of the greek Macedonians south. The Slavs have been in the region ever since.

 

Got it. Those pesky Slavs. My Slavic history is limited to the Poles (as they relate to the Prussians) and Russia. Rusty in other areas. Thanks.

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"Macedona, The FYR" ? Even UN has the name listed like that in their drop down lists among their websites.

 

Sounds fine to me. I'll wait for the sun to flick back to Europe to get some responses from the locals.

 

Make sure you get feedback from some Macedonians (FYRO) as well as the Greeks.

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"Macedona, The FYR" ? Even UN has the name listed like that in their drop down lists among their websites.

 

Sounds fine to me. I'll wait for the sun to flick back to Europe to get some responses from the locals.

 

Make sure you get feedback from some Macedonians (FYRO) as well as the Greeks.

 

Well I'm not blocking either here so I expect I'll hear from anyone who has an opinion of it. Even folks in the US.

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Call it 'Part of the area formerly known as Macedonia but it's now disputed because a long time ago some new people came in and push the older inhabitants out.'. As that might be a bit long I give you permission to shorten it to 'Bob'. You could even use 'Spartacus' but that may be even more confusing.

 

I accept your apology in advance BTW.

 

Brought to you by CoD- my friends call me Paul, but you can call me John.

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"Macedona, The FYR" ? Even UN has the name listed like that in their drop down lists among their websites.

 

Sounds fine to me. I'll wait for the sun to flick back to Europe to get some responses from the locals.

 

Make sure you get feedback from some Macedonians (FYRO) as well as the Greeks.

 

Well I'm not blocking either here so I expect I'll hear from anyone who has an opinion of it. Even folks in the US.

 

You may need to solicit input from the Macedonian (FYRO) cachers, since it is such a small community, I'm not sure they frequent the main forums much.

 

That being said... if the decision is not one they agree with, I'm sure they'll let you (us) know when their cache information changes.

 

That being said... My personal opinion is to make it whatever the cachers in Macedonia (FYRO) prefer. They are the ones who are going to have to deal with it on a day to day basis. Of course, once the politicians resolve the issue, it should be applied as appropriate.

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Some optional changes:

 

Macedonia, Not

Macedonia, FYRO

Macedonia/FYROM

Macedonia, Former Republic of

Macedonia, Disputed

 

Thoughts?

 

Hi, we know we said we were going to stop writting in this thread but that was before Jeremy joined the thread. We think that the option Macedonia/FYROM is the best compromise that can be reached at the moment. This is what is used at the UN and it would go down ok with the Greek geocaching community. Of course if you ask the 3-4 FYROM cachers they would object. Just remind them that the name is disputed and that they have to compromise just like we did.

 

And for those of you who think that the country of FYROM is not being provocative with the name issue here are some news. They recently (just two weeks ago) renamed their capital's main airport from Skopjie International Airport to Alexander the Great Airport, when an airport with exactly the same name exists in the Greek Macedonian city of Kavala for many many years now!!!! You can find relavent links to this with a quick google search. By the way, their capital Skopje is located at the northen part of that country and way outside the boundaries of ancient Macedonia so it is hard to find a reason, other than provocation, for why to use that name for the airport of that city.

 

It was Jennifer&Dean at post #63 who said don't worry no one can steal your history, but as you can see there are people who are trying to do exactly that. And as Renegade Knight pointed out this has happened before with the Prussians. This is why we worry about this so much. For anyone new at this thread please read post #22 where we explain the naming dispute.

 

And one more thing, we (Shrek & Fiona) are from Greek Macedonia born and raised at the Greek Macedonian city of Thessaloniki (the second largest city in Greece after Athens, founded 2,300 years ago by the father of Alexander the Great, Philip, and named after Thessaloniki the sister of Alexander). We consider our selves Macedonian, Greek Macedonian that is. But it has happened many times when people ask us which part of Greece are you from and we say Macedonia the reply is always "but we thought Macedonia is a seperate country" and then of course we have to go explaining the whole issue with them and tell them that that country is just using the name Macedonia but they are not of Macedonian descent...very complicated stuff!

 

So again, we support the name change to Macedonia/FYROM like it is in the UN as a compromise until the dispute is resolved by the politicians.

 

best regards,

Shrek & Fiona

Edited by Shrek_&_Fiona
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:lol: Any way i will like to thank all the people who take part to this discussion about the FYROM.

We will still put our caches,of course we are not take them out and we still wellcome all of you to Greece to spend your hollidays.

I feel that in our comunity(the geocache) many people understand this small problem.This was the final task of this conversation.

 

Thank you all

sakis :):lol::D:angry::blink::(

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"Macedona, The FYR" ? Even UN has the name listed like that in their drop down lists among their websites.

 

Sounds fine to me. I'll wait for the sun to flick back to Europe to get some responses from the locals.

 

Well, it's ok for me (but I'm just half slavic, so don't ask :lol: ).

 

ime

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After all we have New York, New Mexico, New Jersey, New Hamsphire (as states); Brazil, Cuba, Peru, Cairo, and thousands of others (as cities) just to name a few. We aren't offended, and to the best of my knowledge those who the names were taken from aren't terribly offended either.

It makes Google-ing for Jersey a bit annoyingly difficult to get relevant results, but apart from that... :lol:

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After all we have New York, New Mexico, New Jersey, New Hamsphire (as states); Brazil, Cuba, Peru, Cairo, and thousands of others (as cities) just to name a few. We aren't offended, and to the best of my knowledge those who the names were taken from aren't terribly offended either.

It makes Google-ing for Jersey a bit annoyingly difficult to get relevant results, but apart from that... :lol:

 

Well... you know... We are the New and improved Jersey over here. So who wants to bother with the old one :D

 

Actually I kinda find it funny (not quite funny ha ha, more like funny D'Oh) that most people from New Jersey don't know that their state is named after Jersey. Although the same can probably be said about New Hampshire, New York, etc... (although I think the folks from New Mexico probably have it figured out).

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This has been quite a rather interesting thread to read through, in a darkly amusing sort of way.

 

I for one don't understand why we're overlooking the travesty that an emerging little country in Eurasia had the nerve to call itself "Georgia" when we already have a state called Georgia here in the U.S.! This outrage must not be ignored!

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This has been quite a rather interesting thread to read through, in a darkly amusing sort of way.

 

I for one don't understand why we're overlooking the travesty that an emerging little country in Eurasia had the nerve to call itself "Georgia" when we already have a state called Georgia here in the U.S.! This outrage must not be ignored!

 

That is so true... I was born in Georgia (the real one here in the states) how dare they usurp our name like that. Although apparently they call themselves Sak'art'velo... how you get Georgia from that I have no idea :lol:

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Interesting side note on the two Georgia's

 

Georgia (The Country):

 

Derived from Persian Gurj[4][5], probably derived from a PIE term meaning 'mountainous'. In classical times Greeks referring to the region used the names of Colchis (the coastal region along the Black Sea) and Iberia (further inland to the east). Some also believed that Georgia was so named by the Greeks on account of its agricultural resources, since "georgia" (γεωργία) means "farming" in Greek. However, the modern Greek name is now taken to be a derivation from the Persian root "Gurj".[6] Both names probably derive from indigenous Caucasian languages.

Gruzia in Slavic languages (Грузия in Russian, for example) and Gorjestân (گرجستان) in Persian derive from the same source.

Sakartvelo (Georgian name; in English commonly "Kartvelia"): derived from a pagan god called Kartlos, once regarded as the father of all Georgians.

The word Gurj refers to the farming or working the soil. Since the Greek Georgios (Γεώργιος - tiller of the soil) is the same cognate with a similar meaning, the country's name in Western European languages is a proper translation.

Vrastan (Armenian: Վրաստան)

 

Georgia (The US State):

 

In honor of George II of England

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I think it would be fun if we all local names for countries!!

 

Local Name

 

Tonga

 

*Note: I left off all the ones who's common english name is the same as the local name.

 

Wait is this the Kingdom of Tonga? my current abode??? or the African Tribe?

 

Hmmm.... I'm pretty sure it would be your current abode since the African Tribe is not an independent geopolitical country. I think I got the list of local names off of about.com. I'll have to look that up again.

 

edited to add: Just looked it up on geography.about.com... and yes it is in reference to the pacific island nation of Tonga and not to the African tribe of Zambia, Zimbabwe, Mozambique and Malawi. It is also not in reference to the island off of New Zealand, the village in Tuvalu (another pacific island country), the Mon-Khmer language of Tonga spoken in Thailand and Malaysia or the villiage in the Shilluk area of southern Sudan.

 

So how's geocaching in Tonga?

Edited by BRTango
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The bottom line in all of this is that this individual from Greece came to the forums threatening to disable all the caches in the country (not that he could do this necessarily) if he didn't get his way. When my child screams for candy at the store, I don't hand it to him, I spank him.

 

NEVER give in to someone who is threatening you. Stand your ground TPTB. Not only did he threaten Groundspeak, but he insulted our country.

 

I've got other words I'd like to say, but I'll stop here..

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