Why does the 60CSx have a 2,025 map segment limit?

[Glenn W]

It's a well known fact that the 60 CSx (and other "x" series units) limit map uploads to 2,025 segments, and can only read one compiled map file (each transfer erases the previous file), but I've never heard an explanation why. I recently acquired a StreetPilot C550, strictly for car navigation as I found the 60CSx only marginal for auto-routing. Because the CN8NT maps preloaded on the C550 are shy on rural detail, and completely lack off-road detail, I chose to fill the unused internal memory with US Topo and older MetroGuide maps. On a hunch, I selected over 2,900 map segments for the upload, and was pleased to find that the transfer completed without a hitch. Moreover, the transfer created a second map file that did not overwrite the pre-loaded maps. The unit reads both map files and gives the option to activate or deactivate each type of map independently.

 

It seems odd to me that the 60CSx is the flagship of Garmin's handheld line, yet it has serious upload limitations that have been overcome in their mid-grade auto navigator that is primarily intended for computer illiterate, GPS newbees. Given that both units use the SiRF III chip, why can't the boys at Garmin fix these maddening limitations?

 

Note: I think the 60 CSx is the best multi-purpose handheld on the market, I just wish we could make better use of the high-capacity MicroSD cards on the market.

Edited May 31, 2007 by Glenn W

[ertyu]

I found I could create a larger map with more segments if I targetted the SD card directly instead of the unit when making the map.

[Glenn W]

I found I could create a larger map with more segments if I targetted the SD card directly instead of the unit when making the map.

 

That's odd, I've found that loading the 60CSx microSD card directly (through a card reader) does not overcome the limit. Any attempt to exceed 2,025 segments results in a failed transfer.

 

GW

[segler999]

It's in their programming. 2025 is probably the result of 2^11=2048 minus a couple dozen bits for overhead. My contention is that they could change this by changing the 2048 parameter to something like 2^16=65536. If their software is well designed, just change the number in the parameter list and recompile. Recompile for the firmwares and for Mapsource. No biggie.

 

I believe they are not fixing this due to market segmentation. The very small but numerous segments in TOPO makes it possible to load TOPO segments into older gpsrs with small internal memory, such as my old blue Legend.

 

My 60Cx can't hold more than about 375mb worth of TOPO segments due to the 2025 segment count limit. So, if you use TOPO, a microSD card bigger than 512mb is a waste. (Unless you keep gobs of gpx tracks and waypoints on the card as well.)

 

June is here tomorrow. I have threatened to sell my 60Cx if Garmin does not increase the count limit by June. I am tempted to follow through and sell, but the Delorme PN-20 is not quite good enough to catch my fancy, even though the PN-20 has vastly superior maps.

[+Renegade Knight]

... the Delorme PN-20 is not quite good enough to catch my fancy, even though the PN-20 has vastly superior maps.

Generation 1 showed the potential. Generation 2 will tell if this idea is going to catch on. They need to fix their spendy arial maps though.

[MajBach]

I found I could create a larger map with more segments if I targetted the SD card directly instead of the unit when making the map.

 

I too have had success with this.

[Glenn W]

I found I could create a larger map with more segments if I targetted the SD card directly instead of the unit when making the map.

 

I too have had success with this.

 

I guess I'll have to give it another try. Just to be clear, are you saying that by using a card reader to address the microSD card directly, you were able to upload more than 2025 map segments to a Garmin 60CSx or other "x series" Garmin? Did you check to see if all segments actually were usable (i.e., no unwanted holes in the maps)?

Edited May 31, 2007 by Glenn W

[segler999]

I have tried this. Doesn't matter whether you upload through the gpsr or through a card reader. It tops out at 2025 segments.

[ertyu]

I found I could create a larger map with more segments if I targetted the SD card directly instead of the unit when making the map.

 

I too have had success with this.

 

Thats what I did. Not sure how to check for holes.

[+poohstickz]

I found I could create a larger map with more segments if I targetted the SD card directly instead of the unit when making the map.

 

I too have had success with this.

 

Thats what I did. Not sure how to check for holes.

 

Whilst you can load more than 2025 segments if you write directly to the SD card, you cannot access all of the segments so being able to load them is somewhat moot. Last time I loaded a bunch of different map products, plus some home-grown ones, to exceed the 2025 limit, only two of six (or so) products were actually able to be selected on the GPS.

 

It's not just loading them, being able to use them is also part of the puzzle.

[Glenn W]

I found I could create a larger map with more segments if I targetted the SD card directly instead of the unit when making the map.

 

I too have had success with this.

 

Thats what I did. Not sure how to check for holes.

 

Whilst you can load more than 2025 segments if you write directly to the SD card, you cannot access all of the segments so being able to load them is somewhat moot. Last time I loaded a bunch of different map products, plus some home-grown ones, to exceed the 2025 limit, only two of six (or so) products were actually able to be selected on the GPS.

 

It's not just loading them, being able to use them is also part of the puzzle.

 

That pretty much mirrors my observations. You can complete the transfer, but not all of the segments will display, leaving holes in the map coverage.

[Neo_Geo]

For the record, The limit was nearly doubled to 2,025 shortly after the "x-models" were released. There must be some logical reason for Garmin engineers to implement the limit in the first place. Our tiny, little minds simply can't comprehend why.

[rwsmith123]

For the record, The limit was nearly doubled to 2,025 shortly after the "x-models" were released. There must be some logical reason for Garmin engineers to implement the limit in the first place. Our tiny, little minds simply can't comprehend why.

 

The 60csx builds some type of index of the mapset (you can see it do this when you insert the microSD card into the gps and turn it on for the first time, you'll see a status bar across the bottom of the screen). The more segments the bigger the index. The index is stored in internal memory so it's size is limited by the amount of internal memory, which limits the number of segments you can have loaded.

 

In this thread:

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...=160774&hl=

I explained that the topo maps can be regenerated with larger segments and said if enough people were interested that I would write a program to automate the process. Not a single person responded that they would be interested.

[+jotne]

Has anyone tried asking techsupport at Garmin?

[+Bus36]

For the record, The limit was nearly doubled to 2,025 shortly after the "x-models" were released. There must be some logical reason for Garmin engineers to implement the limit in the first place. Our tiny, little minds simply can't comprehend why.

 

The 60csx builds some type of index of the mapset (you can see it do this when you insert the microSD card into the gps and turn it on for the first time, you'll see a status bar across the bottom of the screen). The more segments the bigger the index. The index is stored in internal memory so it's size is limited by the amount of internal memory, which limits the number of segments you can have loaded.

 

In this thread:

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...=160774&hl=

I explained that the topo maps can be regenerated with larger segments and said if enough people were interested that I would write a program to automate the process. Not a single person responded that they would be interested.

I would be interested in something like that.

[segler999]

jotne, yes, I have contacted techsupport at Garmin numerous times about this. They keep replying about a future firmware fix. After 15 months of this, I am not holding my breath.

 

rwwmith123, yes, I would be very interested in a process to re-group small segments into larger ones. For TOPO I would suggest simply grouping them by states. Yes, many segments overlap state lines, but that's OK. Nice, big state-sized TOPO segments will fit nicely onto the microSD cards, no prob. You could get the entire west half of the USA onto a big card with only 20 segments. Nice.

[Glenn W]

 

The 60csx builds some type of index of the mapset (you can see it do this when you insert the microSD card into the gps and turn it on for the first time, you'll see a status bar across the bottom of the screen). The more segments the bigger the index. The index is stored in internal memory so it's size is limited by the amount of internal memory, which limits the number of segments you can have loaded.

 

 

Thank you. That explanation makes perfect sense. Unfortunately, it also means the 2,025 segment limit is there only because Garmin put a ridiculously small internal memory chip in a $400 receiver to save maybe $2 per unit