What is the proper "destroyed" edicate?

[+Oilman]

I recently started benchmarking as a change from Geocaching. After browsing through a few posts I see that I should not make a denchmark as "Destroyed"

 

Sometimes is is very obeous they are not there: i.e. "on top of a 150 ft stack in the middle of a factory" in 1955, now the area is a subdivision of 2 story houses.

 

If I decide that a benchmark should be classified as "Destroyed", what is the best procedure to take.

 

Thanks,

Oilman

[+m&h]

A note or two from our experience, which is less extensive than that of many others here--

 

To report a mark destroyed to this site, be sure you are correct, and include some persuasive photos. If the mark was a disk, get as close as you can to where it was and take shots that demonstrate why it couldn't be there any more. Be aware that a new sidewalk poured over the old one, or poured where the old one was, may only have covered up the mark and rendered it completely invisible and useless. This is not the same thing as destroying the mark. In that case, you can't know whether the mark is still there or not, even if something where it should be talks to your metal detector. And if you can't know, it's Not Found.

 

In the case you mention, the removal of an entire building, a few photos with information about position from which taken and direction in which camera is aimed, might be sufficient for this site.

 

For the NGS, the standards are fairly stringent, and it can be useful to add to the above some information from the local building or zoning officials, who can tell you, if you can find them, when such and such a building was taken down.

 

Destroyed marks are reported to NGS in e-mails to Deb Brown, not on the recovery form.

[AZcachemeister]

A note or two from our experience, which is less extensive than that of many others here--

 

To report a mark destroyed to this site, be sure you are correct, and include some persuasive photos. If the mark was a disk, get as close as you can to where it was and take shots that demonstrate why it couldn't be there any more. Be aware that a new sidewalk poured over the old one, or poured where the old one was, may only have covered up the mark and rendered it completely invisible and useless. This is not the same thing as destroying the mark. In that case, you can't know whether the mark is still there or not, even if something where it should be talks to your metal detector. And if you can't know, it's Not Found.

 

In the case you mention, the removal of an entire building, a few photos with information about position from which taken and direction in which camera is aimed, might be sufficient for this site.

 

For the NGS, the standards are fairly stringent, and it can be useful to add to the above some information from the local building or zoning officials, who can tell you, if you can find them, when such and such a building was taken down.

 

Destroyed marks are reported to NGS in e-mails to Deb Brown, not on the recovery form.

 

m & h have answered this very nicely.

Sometimes you have to leave your ego at home, it's too easy to say, 'I can't find it, so it must be destroyed'.

As well, it's too easy to say, 'I'm looking for a water tank (church spire, radio mast, etc), and there it is! But is it the right one?

[andylphoto]

m & h have answered this very nicely.

Sometimes you have to leave your ego at home, it's too easy to say, 'I can't find it, so it must be destroyed'.

As well, it's too easy to say, 'I'm looking for a water tank (church spire, radio mast, etc), and there it is! But is it the right one?

 

Well said. In the case of intersection stations (church steeples, stacks, towers, etc.) the coordinates are adjusted, so a photo of your GPS pointing to the published coordinates will suffice for geocaching, and possibly for the NGS.

 

I logged two today that are interesting. One is destroyed (as documented 30 years ago by the NGS) but the datasheet still exists, as the Azimuth marker remains. The location of the station and reference marks went from a rock outcropping to a portion of the pit of an open pit mine. The station and several hundred feet of the earth beneath it were blasted and trucked away years ago. I logged a note because the AZ marker is available to hunt for. The adjusted coordinates clearly place it within the pit, which has now been flooded. State Highway 95, which the datasheet refers to, has also been rerouted about a mile to the west, as its former route was right through the present mine pit.

 

The second I logged as a not found. I am confident the station is destroyed, but I don't have the disk, so I can't say for sure. Seems pretty likely though. The rationale is on the pictures. The two stations are:

 

RK0574

RK0572

[+v-hunter]

I recently marked two benchmarks destroyed on this site but did not log recoveries on the NGS as the notes from 86 reflect what I found.

 

See photos

LS0292

LS0277

Edited June 6, 2007 by v-hunter

[+t8r]

In opinion of ngs (according to their published information) the mark is not officially destroyed unless you can see the actual numbers and letters that identify the mark. then if you can confirm that you saw it out of it's setting, it is destroyed.

The proper report to ngs would be not found.

[Wintertime]

Destroyed marks are reported to NGS in e-mails to Deb Brown, not on the recovery form.

Speaking of which, how long does it usually take for Deb to respond to destroyed reports? If she accepts the report, does she just make the change to the database but not write to the person who submitted the report? (I'm guessing yes.) If she rejects the designation, does she write to the person to let them know?

 

Patty

[andylphoto]

The length of time it takes depends on how busy she gets. My casual observations would put it at somewhere between 3-6 weeks, depending on the backlog, but others may be able to give a better answer. A mark I submitted for destruction around April 1 (QM0586) was logged destroyed on April 18. Two I submitted on May 5 or so have not had their datasheets updated yet.

 

I have never received an email back on a mark that was destroyed. I usually try to go back after a couple months and try to check on the datasheets on marks I've submitted.

[mloser]

When I first started submitting destroyed marks I think she used to send out an email no matter what the determination. Then she started only telling me if she wasn't going to mark it destroyed.

 

As mentioned, it depends on how busy she is. I have sometimes heard in less than a week if she didn't agree with me though.

[Wintertime]

So if I haven't heard from Deb more than two months after submitting a report, should I ping her?

 

Patty

Edited June 7, 2007 by Wintertime

[AZcachemeister]

The most recent info I have on this subject is that Deb is no longer replying to destroyed reports. The reporting party is expected to go look for themselves, after a reasonable period, to see if the mark was listed as destroyed.

[Wintertime]

The most recent info I have on this subject is that Deb is no longer replying to destroyed reports. The reporting party is expected to go look for themselves, after a reasonable period, to see if the mark was listed as destroyed.

Sorry, let me clarify. By "haven't heard from Deb," I mean that I have not received an email from her, nor has she updated the datasheet for the intersection station in question. So should I ping her again?

 

Patty

[+Lat34North]

How do you log a station that was moved? PID DG2829 is a microwave tower and the location is given as N 33° 55.206 W 084° 22.873. This is now a grocery store and the tower was moved to a higher (as in elevation) location at N 33° 55.406 W 84° 22.856.

Edited June 9, 2007 by Lat34North

[Bill93]

>How do you log a station that was moved?

 

The original position is no longer marked, thus it is destroyed. If the new position were surveyed for the data base (which an intersection station won't be) it would get a new PID.

[+Lat34North]

>How do you log a station that was moved?

 

The original position is no longer marked, thus it is destroyed. If the new position were surveyed for the data base (which an intersection station won't be) it would get a new PID.

 

Thanks Bill93, I logged it as not found, but I’ll document it and then change it to destroyed. Anyone need anything from Kroger while I'm there?