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Should persons be over 18 to place caches?


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My stepchildren, ages 13 and 15, have each placed a cache. A great deal more thought and creativity went into these caches than I've seen in a *lot* of caches placed by adults. They take their cache-owner responsibilities very seriously -- again, something I don't see happening consistently with adults.

 

Is there a reason you're asking this question? Why on earth would you want to cut off some of the most enthusiastic cachers from one of the joys of geocaching? Has something happened to make you feel like this is a worthy cause?

 

-- Jeannette

 

Why stop at age:

 

How about the following:

 

1) Minimum age = 18

2) Citizen of country in which the cache is placed,

3) No criiminal

4) Mentally sound

5) Must obtain a cache placement license (including written and field test).

6) Continuing cache placement education requirement

 

Or we could just not try to fix a problem that does not exist.

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<snip>

 

But they typically are "experts" on everything with absolute IDIOTS for parents. Their parents seem to gain an awful lot of "smarts" by the time the teenagers hit early adulthood.

 

<snip>

 

First of all no one can be an expert on anything as there is always more to learn about everything. Secondly are you caling my parents idiots? Thirdly you have, I'm sorry to say, a misconception on the way that the majority of caching minors concieve 'rules' or 'guidelines' as you will.

 

1. Minors cannot legally sign a contract, thus their assertion, by checking the appropriate boxes on the cache submission page that a cache meets guidelines and that they have adequate permission, is invalid.

When my cache was placed it didn't need a contract, just a word of mouth "O.K." from the owner of the property.

 

2. In conjunction with (1), they also cannot legally agree to the terms of the disclaimer in the terms of use and therefore their guardians could conceivably seek damages in the event of injury- even when seeking a cache.

Dear God it's a game, we're not giving ourselves up to the firing brigade.

 

3. Minors, as a rule, have rather poor judgment when it comes to interpreting rules, such as one's rights to be on private property without permission and the potential consequences therefor to others who would seek their caches. For that matter, minors simply have poor judgment in general- that is why we don't allow them to buy cigarettes and beer and stuff.

This statement I believe refers to the greater percent of my minority but should not be stamped onto us all.

 

4. Minors often tend to misunderstand the game to some extent, such as not understanding weatherproofing, what makes a good hide, etc. (of course this applies to adults as well in a lot of cases, but I believe it is more likely with minors)

Once again not all minors are idiots.

 

5. Unless assisted by an adult, they are unlikely to have needed transportation, funds and access to do maintenance on a cache.

I do maitenance fine on my cache with my own funds and my parents provide transportation.

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I'm not a lawyer, and I've never played on one TV, so I can't comment on any legalities involved in checking a little box that says I've read the guidelines. Must you be 18 to check that little box? Heck, I don't know. That leaves me making my decision based more upon cost/benefit analysis than on law.

 

In this case, the "cost" would be the existence of some caches placed by kids using poor judgment. I've seen these first hand, and prefer to either deal with them on an individual basis, or ignore the user from that point on, so I'm no longer subject to their caches. I'll spare this thread the repetition of pointing out adult hides made with poor judgment. Enough has been said on that topic.

 

The "benefit" is that geocaching kids today = geocaching adults tomorrow. I would much prefer to deal with young adults who have spent some time outdoors as kids, then those who have never been more than 50' from their Game Cube. The interaction folks get at all levels in this game is an amazing teacher for all of us, including the wee ones.

 

In my opinion, the benefits outweigh the costs, so I would for for no age restrictions.

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Should persons be over 18 to place caches?

 

no

ditto

Double ditto.

 

I'm 14 (with plenty of finds and a couple hides)and if I wasn't allowed to place a geocache I still would because thats one of the fun parts of this sport, and that pretty rude to not allow minors to place caches. I've seen us(minors) have better decisions than some adults

Played the wrong card there, sir.

 

it is the "hallmark" of immaturity to know you are not allowed to do something and then you do it anyway- especially if the "something" is of little importance.

 

Sorry, I've seen more more logs like "came after dark when park was closed but still snuck in to make the grab" and "I knew I shouldn't do XXXXX but I was so close and didn't want to have to come back" by adults than I have the younger crowd.

 

And parental supervision is not a fix either. That assumes that all parents are intelligent and know about placement, environmental damage, etc. and that's just not the case.

 

I have a local child cacher here (about 12 or 13) who is taken around by his parents. Most hides are film cans in parks where the homeless live and a few others have caused a lot of damage in a local State Park (since been corrected). How did the parents help this situation??

 

You stated that you haven't had a bad experience and that there is no widespread problem.

 

Status quo works for me.

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<snip>

 

But they typically are "experts" on everything with absolute IDIOTS for parents. Their parents seem to gain an awful lot of "smarts" by the time the teenagers hit early adulthood.

 

<snip>

 

First of all no one can be an expert on anything as there is always more to learn about everything. Secondly are you caling my parents idiots? Thirdly you have, I'm sorry to say, a misconception on the way that the majority of caching minors concieve 'rules' or 'guidelines' as you will.

<snip>

 

You'll probably understand my statement when you rear your first teenager. :D

 

Also please notice the qualifying words like "some", typically", "as a rule", "in general", etc. that indicate that a statement is not intended to apply to everyone in a group, but only to those for whom "the shoe fits." If you do not see yourself in the sub-group specified, then it stands to reason that the statement probably doesn't apply to you personally. Of course a statement MIGHT apply to you and you think it does not because you are just unable to see yourself in the group.

 

As you say, "there is always more to learn."

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<snip>That leaves me making my decision based more upon cost/benefit analysis than on law.

 

In this case, the "cost" would be the existence of some caches placed by kids using poor judgment. I've seen these first hand, and prefer to either deal with them on an individual basis, or ignore the user from that point on, so I'm no longer subject to their caches. I'll spare this thread the repetition of pointing out adult hides made with poor judgment. Enough has been said on that topic.

 

The "benefit" is that geocaching kids today = geocaching adults tomorrow. I would much prefer to deal with young adults who have spent some time outdoors as kids, then those who have never been more than 50' from their Game Cube. The interaction folks get at all levels in this game is an amazing teacher for all of us, including the wee ones.

 

In my opinion, the benefits outweigh the costs, so I would for for no age restrictions.

I'll buy that.

Excellent analysis.

 

Just as a side-bar:

I was just listening to a talk show this morning where a college administrator is stumping for lowering the drinking age to 18.

 

Thinking about it a lot, I would like to see a constitutional amendment removing ALL age restrictions after 18, with possible exception for the higher elected offices (i can't imagine a teenage president- and yes, I think the American people ARE dumb enough to elect one if it were legal).

 

Once old enough to fight for their country, they should legally be full adults in every sense of the word.

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I was just listening to a talk show this morning where a college administrator is stumping for lowering the drinking age to 18.

I'd like to see the drinking age raised to 30. :( Drinking makes folks stupid, and stupid 30 year olds are much easier to deal with than stupid 18 year olds. :( I can't even count the number of college students I've arrested for underage drinking. :ph34r:

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Hell no, ive placed 3 caches and jointly placed another all within 2 miles of my house. Maintainence, therefore, is easy. Just because we are younger doesn't mean we cant understand the regulations that go with placing a cache.

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Once old enough to fight for their country, they should legally be full adults in every sense of the word.

 

At the risk of going off topic and making this a political debate: I agree 100%.

But should they be required to serve in the armed forces first?

Sorry to continue in this direction, but NO. If you are available, even if for whatever reason disqualified from service, you are grown up enough to serve and you should be honoured as an adult.

 

Now to get back on topic (mostly).

 

This "debate" if it can be called that, is actually taking place with nothing but assumptions and very little factual information. Does anyone really know if younger peoples' caches are of any lesser quality than adults in a statistically substantial incidence?

 

I suspect no one has actually studied this and the criteria for such a study would be extremely difficult to define considering no two cachers seem to agree on what exactly IS a bad cache.

 

My primary concern with bad caches, no matter who places them, is caches placed "illegally", which i primarily define as "caches being placed on private property which is clearly posted as private property (more specifically "no trespass"), without permission."

 

Such is my only real beef, especially when I read such "juvenile" statements as "it is OK, everybody goes there" (which I have only personally encountered once and the placer was NOT a minor). As to the legal issue I raised, a lawyer has spoken and GC seems satisfied.

 

To get REAL information on the subject, a simple statistical criterion might be "relative number of caches archived for alleged private property violation." This would be an objective criterion and provided age of cache placer was known (which it currently isn't in all cases), statistical data could be compiled which would reveal one way or the other if there really is a problem.

 

I smell Federal money! :P

 

OBTW:

Because adults do something also, it does not in any way excuse kids from responsibility for their actions or change the "fact" that the kids do it more often if indeed that is the case.

 

There are immature adults and immature kids. The big difference between the two of course is that KIDS GROW UP. <_<

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I enjoy kid's caches. Some of them are very creative. I sometimes think kids have way, way too many restrictions which limit their exploration and ideas.

 

Using my Way Back machine, I was once a kid. I hunted birds with a BB gun. I played on see-saws and monkey bars. We played tackle football. I always had a pocket knife with me - including while attending school. There were no seat belts so I didn't wear them. I got spanked in public if I acted up. We didn't wear swim suits at the YMCA. No rules or laws were broken and nobody ever thought about suing somebody.

 

Let the kids have the whole geocaching experience- searching, finding, trading and hiding.

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...I suspect no one has actually studied this and the criteria for such a study would be extremely difficult to define considering no two cachers seem to agree on what exactly IS a bad cache....

 

4 Years ago I posted on a kids cache.

This is why I say "No" to an age limit. I want to be able to remember these things. I want to see them in the world. I want to see the hope and because sometimes I can, the power and the glory in such simple things.

 

Lame Cache Theory

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1. Minors cannot legally sign a contract, thus their assertion, by checking the appropriate boxes on the cache submission page that a cache meets guidelines and that they have adequate permission, is invalid.

 

Wrong!

This is country specific thing.

 

2. In conjunction with (1), they also cannot legally agree to the terms of the disclaimer in the terms of use and therefore their guardians could conceivably seek damages in the event of injury- even when seeking a cache.

 

Once again wrong.

This is country specific thing.

 

3. Minors, as a rule, have rather poor judgment when it comes to interpreting rules, such as one's rights to be on private property without permission and the potential consequences therefor to others who would seek their caches. For that matter, minors simply have poor judgment in general- that is why we don't allow them to buy cigarettes and beer and stuff.

 

This total nonsense.

And once again also country specific.

So far I have seen more adults with poor judgement in this hobby than minors.

 

4. Minors often tend to misunderstand the game to some extent, such as not understanding weatherproofing, what makes a good hide, etc. (of course this applies to adults as well in a lot of cases, but I believe it is more likely with minors)

 

You cannot be serious and as someone suggested this must be a troll post.

 

5. Unless assisted by an adult, they are unlikely to have needed transportation, funds and access to do maintenance on a cache.

 

I don't know what to say because this is coming more silly after each point.

 

Perhaps legal issues might be a problem in the States and therefore you should get that kind of rules, but as this is a international hobby rest of the nations should be able to continue normally.

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...I suspect no one has actually studied this and the criteria for such a study would be extremely difficult to define considering no two cachers seem to agree on what exactly IS a bad cache....

 

4 Years ago I posted on a kids cache.

This is why I say "No" to an age limit. I want to be able to remember these things. I want to see them in the world. I want to see the hope and because sometimes I can, the power and the glory in such simple things.

 

Lame Cache Theory

I agree with you and I really don't want to kick this dead horse much more, but I lifted this quote (emphasis mine) :

The cache itself was placed by a pre-school age child on an outing with this father.

 

The bold allays my concerns. He had parental supervision. That is sufficient.

 

In no way did I intend to indicate that minors should not participate in caching at ALL levels. Undoubtedly i should have been more clear that my concern is ONLY if they are allowed to do so without the guidance and supervision of a responsible adult.

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As Geovius points out, we are being provincial here. There are geocachers in other countries! I guess women cannot hide caches in Islamic countries? Hmmm...

Change title to: Should persons be over age of legal majority to place caches. :rolleyes:

I'll agree: No. (And off-topic: persons of legal majority should enjoy all privileges of legal majority, including dtinking.) Quality of the cache is not material. Juveniles (those unde legal majority. 21, when I registred to vote), have few rights or privileges.

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Hell no, ive placed 3 caches and jointly placed another all within 2 miles of my house. Maintainence, therefore, is easy. Just because we are younger doesn't mean we cant understand the regulations that go with placing a cache.

well said! i myself am only 15 years old, have 127 finds and 2 hides. my hides are within 10 miles of my house and are an easy bike ride away. if you read and follow the guidelines, respect privite, public and govenment land, are careful of the enviornment, then whats the problem? NONE!!! i dont want to brag, but i'd say my two hides are more unique then the majority of the caches in my area. if you dont have to 18 to find, then you dont have to 18 to hide. this is a family friendly game for ALL ages.

Edited by Arndtwe
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