Should persons be over 18 to place caches?

[+Confucius' Cat]

I think that allowing minors to place caches is probably not a good idea, to wit:

 

1. Minors cannot legally sign a contract, thus their assertion, by checking the appropriate boxes on the cache submission page that a cache meets guidelines and that they have adequate permission, is invalid.

 

2. In conjunction with (1), they also cannot legally agree to the terms of the disclaimer in the terms of use and therefore their guardians could conceivably seek damages in the event of injury- even when seeking a cache.

 

3. Minors, as a rule, have rather poor judgment when it comes to interpreting rules, such as one's rights to be on private property without permission and the potential consequences therefor to others who would seek their caches. For that matter, minors simply have poor judgment in general- that is why we don't allow them to buy cigarettes and beer and stuff.

 

4. Minors often tend to misunderstand the game to some extent, such as not understanding weatherproofing, what makes a good hide, etc. (of course this applies to adults as well in a lot of cases, but I believe it is more likely with minors)

 

5. Unless assisted by an adult, they are unlikely to have needed transportation, funds and access to do maintenance on a cache.

 

Obviously the judgment levels referenced here do not universally apply and often can be said of adults, too. But given the potential legal issues, I think we should have a parental permission requirement for minors to list caches.

[nonaeroterraqueous]

...minors simply have poor judgment in general- that is why we don't allow them to buy cigarettes and beer and stuff.

 

Generally, I don't see adults utilizing good judgment with cigarettes and beer and stuff, either, so what's the difference.

 

As for restrictions on minors, as you propose, you seem to be fixing a problem that doesn't exist. True, in theory, all that you suggest represents a real threat to geocaching. In fact, though, I was not aware that these problems are anything but theory. You know what they say about fixing a thing that isn't broken....

[+JohnnyVegas]

I have seen several caches that have been placed by vetran cachers that violate guidelines for placing a cache (These are not old hides) If the adults will not follow the guidelines what would be the point to have some one be over 18 to hide a cache. It will not mean you will get a good hide. There are lots of lame hides out there that have been place by very experianced high number cache finders.

[Neos2]

How would you regulate it?

[+Team GeoBlast]

How would you regulate it?

 

Beat me to it. There's no way to regulate it. Many examples of that on the internet.

[vtmtnman]

How would you regulate it?

 

Beat me to it. There's no way to regulate it. Many examples of that on the internet.

There's many examples of it everywhere for that matter.

[+briansnat]

Should persons be over 18 to place caches?

 

no

[+Team LaLonde]

We have a local cacher who helps his grandkids place caches. He uses geocaching to teach them responsibility, orienteering, map reading and general outdoorsmanship. He teaches them to CITO. These kids are far younger than eighteen and they are the future of geocaching. Hide more, I say. Hide more.

 

Obviously the OP has had a negative experience but we need to address these situations individually. These things will take care of themselves in time. Maybe cachers in the OP's home area need to set up a Big Brother/Sister type of program for mentoring young cachers? Knowledge is power!

[+rdaines]

There are so many bad things that a young person could get involved in these days that to have them denied a great "sport" like geocaching because they're not 18 seems sad. We want our young folk to turn off the computer and the TV and get outside. While he issues that were brought up by the OP are valid, I think the benefits out weigh the potential bad. This "sport" can be done more cheaply than I do it but it still requires a significant amount of money for a GPS, software and materials. I don't see a kid spending that kid of money unless they were serious about this game. As for transport, a bicycle works as do legs.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

In light of some of the very questionable hides which I have encountered in my lifetime, as well as lame hides, I would much rather prefer that only persons over 120 years of age be allowed to place caches, unless they are a certificated graduate of my Professional Geocache Placement Certification Program (tuition is $13,330; course available by mail-order.)

[Tahosa and Sons]

Maybe I should archive this Cache and wait till Lil Tahosa turns 18. If you teach them when they are young we will have a future for caching. But keep them away from those nasty parking lots, guardrails and urban delights, take them into the hills.

[+d-town cachers]

i think this is a bad idea and really just a bad attitude toward young people. the point has been made many times already that age is not a factor in following the rules.

[+genegene]

Usualy kids go out with there parents when geocaching, dont they? When my son is old enough to go out with me, I will teach him how to hunt thoes pesky little micros like any veteren canand when the time comes that he wants to place his first cache I will help him to Place, log, and to maintance on it. I don't see any reason that someone under 18 should not be able to place a cache as long as it is supervised. If there are problems with a cache placement or a violation wright to your admin.

[+Rockin Roddy]

By your own description, you make it sound that we should just ban them from caching period! Since they can't be held to the waivers, they could get hurt while caching (finding OR hiding) and the uaI agree with ALL those statements from the others here...bad idea. My 14 yr old has hidden a few caches alone...none have yet to be published (or has he even tried to), but they ARE good practice runs, and if he finds that "right spot" for a placement, I'll happily help him publish it! Learning is best started young IMHO.

 

Don't assume that ALL kids are unable to comprehend rules and concepts...many WILL surprise you! One of our better hides was placed by my 14 yr old (while out with us placing hides that is)...very sneaky hide...and quite simple (to place...not find)!edit for spelling as usual!

Edited May 28, 2007 by Rockin Roddy

[+C&C+COMPANY]

cacher should be ablew to place a cache no matter what age

[AbercrombieHollister]

cacher should be ablew to place a cache no matter what age

 

Hes right. Cachers should be able to make caches at any age. Im only 12 and i have 4 good caches. =]

[JohnX]

I think that allowing minors to place caches is probably not a good idea, to wit:

 

1. Minors cannot legally sign a contract, thus their assertion, by checking the appropriate boxes on the cache submission page that a cache meets guidelines and that they have adequate permission, is invalid.

 

2. In conjunction with (1), they also cannot legally agree to the terms of the disclaimer in the terms of use and therefore their guardians could conceivably seek damages in the event of injury- even when seeking a cache.

 

3. Minors, as a rule, have rather poor judgment when it comes to interpreting rules, such as one's rights to be on private property without permission and the potential consequences therefor to others who would seek their caches. For that matter, minors simply have poor judgment in general- that is why we don't allow them to buy cigarettes and beer and stuff.

 

4. Minors often tend to misunderstand the game to some extent, such as not understanding weatherproofing, what makes a good hide, etc. (of course this applies to adults as well in a lot of cases, but I believe it is more likely with minors)

 

5. Unless assisted by an adult, they are unlikely to have needed transportation, funds and access to do maintenance on a cache.

 

Obviously the judgment levels referenced here do not universally apply and often can be said of adults, too. But given the potential legal issues, I think we should have a parental permission requirement for minors to list caches.

A troll post if I ever saw one.

 

However, I would like Confucius' Cat elaborate on the "potential legal issues" he mentions in his ridiculously hyperbolic post. How about it CC, can you clarify what you are hinting at? If you can't I'll have to assume your post was not intended to start a legitimate discussion but merely to spin people up.

[+Rockin Roddy]

much like your post John X??

 

There are legit concerns in CC's post...and he is allowed his views.

[+carleenp]

I think that allowing minors to place caches is probably not a good idea, to wit:

 

1. Minors cannot legally sign a contract, thus their assertion, by checking the appropriate boxes on the cache submission page that a cache meets guidelines and that they have adequate permission, is invalid.

 

2. In conjunction with (1), they also cannot legally agree to the terms of the disclaimer in the terms of use and therefore their guardians could conceivably seek damages in the event of injury- even when seeking a cache.

 

3. Minors, as a rule, have rather poor judgment when it comes to interpreting rules, such as one's rights to be on private property without permission and the potential consequences therefor to others who would seek their caches. For that matter, minors simply have poor judgment in general- that is why we don't allow them to buy cigarettes and beer and stuff.

 

4. Minors often tend to misunderstand the game to some extent, such as not understanding weatherproofing, what makes a good hide, etc. (of course this applies to adults as well in a lot of cases, but I believe it is more likely with minors)

 

5. Unless assisted by an adult, they are unlikely to have needed transportation, funds and access to do maintenance on a cache.

 

Obviously the judgment levels referenced here do not universally apply and often can be said of adults, too. But given the potential legal issues, I think we should have a parental permission requirement for minors to list caches.

 

Where did you get your law degree?

[+Stunod]

I'm wondering who has the poor judgement and misconceptions here...

[+Buddaman]

Think about it. After you found a couple of caches you wanted to hide some(well atleast I did) so if your a person under 18 and find a few and next you want to hide some and your told NO! and I know at that age you will either 1. say heck with the game any right there you loose a future cacher. or 2. the kid gets mad at the rule and starts to muggle caches like some people over 18 have done. so in my eyes I would say no.

[leswon]

Please No!!!! Everybody makes mistakes, not just people under 18. I will admit my first cache was a failure but that doesn't mean I should have to wait 1 1/2 years to try again. I learned from my mistake and am sure my next cache will be better.

[+Walt Jabsco]

Kids spend half their teenage years figuring out how to hide things from their parents, so I say they're better apt to find places to hide a good cache.

[+Renegade Knight]

...Where did you get your law degree?

 

The law is a funny thing. We can't practice it ,but are subject to it, and ignorance of it is no excuse.

 

However I could be wrong.

 

Anway, I'm with BrianSnat on the answer to the question.

[+wimseyguy]

Nope, not a troll post as CC has been posting his opinions around here for a while and is a known quantity.

But it is just about the worst suggestion I have seen in an OP in the past week.

Of course, I haven't been around too much the past week.

 

I'll trust the crack legal eagles at Groundspeak to worry about this stuff.

[+opa and oma]

 

Where did you get your law degree?

 

I was gunna say, "I smell an atty!"

[+carleenp]

...Where did you get your law degree?

 

The law is a funny thing. We can't practice it ,but are subject to it, and ignorance of it is no excuse.

 

However I could be wrong.

 

Anway, I'm with BrianSnat on the answer to the question.

 

That is correct. Ignorance of it is never a defense. I find it more interesting when ignorance of it leads to incorrect or incomplete statements.

 

Regardless, the acuracy of any legal statements aside, I also agree with you and Brian on the answer to the question.

[+Confucius' Cat]

cacher should be ablew to place a cache no matter what age

 

Hes right. Cachers should be able to make caches at any age. Im only 12 and i have 4 good caches. =]

 

Depends on definitions doesn't it?

In reading your profile, it looks more like you have 2 "good" caches and two that were quickly archived, one for encouraging people to apparently trespass- which I would call "poor judgment"- opinions may vary.

 

Please don't be offended, 12 year olds are great people, as are youth of any age. I thoroughly enjoy teaching and working with them. I applaud the youths' randomness and spontaniety and their willingness to "jump in head first" on each and every new concept that comes their way.

 

But they typically are "experts" on everything with absolute IDIOTS for parents. Their parents seem to gain an awful lot of "smarts" by the time the teenagers hit early adulthood.

 

In reference to "bad experiences", I can't honestly say I have had any, but I have observed that caches tend to disappear shortly after groups of youth such as scouts or classroom groups are "introduced" to the sport (does not apply to family groups). without other evidence i would attribute this to "showing off" by the group members AFTER the official caching trip... "I know where there is a box in the woods here and YOU don't..."

 

I would not say that groups like this should not be done, but perhaps they should be introduced with specially setup caches so that the real ones are not revealed to those who do not really understand.

 

For all the posters who are so quick to attach bad motives to my post, please note I in no way indicated that young people should not cache, but only that caches placed without adult supervision are perhaps a bad idea for the reasons posted.

 

Actually, I have NOT had a bad experience and i DO NOT have a bad attitude toward youth. ... SO since my motivation for posting cannot be easily discerned by the forum psychiatrists, I guess it must be just a troll post

[+Too Tall John]

My gut reaction is "No!"

 

However, the concerns about waivers & liability make me hope that Groundspeak is looking or has looked into this concern because it seems like something that could come back to bite the site. To those who say "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" let me weave an analogy for you:

 

You are a rock climber. You've got all your gear & are going climbing. You notice a fray in one of the ropes, but decide to test it by hanging from a tree & it supports your weight. "If it'll support me hanging, it must be ok, and you know what they say: If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" While 10' down a 100' cliff, you slip, after a 10 foot fall, the rope catches you, until the stress from the sudden shock causes it to break, sending you crashing 80'. Now you are dead. Don't you wish you'd fixed the rope?

 

Just because something works under normal conditions doesn't mean it ain't broke. Just because the waivers work under normal circumstances doesn't mean that they'll work all the time. As RK said:

The law is a funny thing. We can't practice it ,but are subject to it, and ignorance of it is no excuse.

cacher should be ablew to place a cache no matter what age

Hes right. Cachers should be able to make caches at any age. Im only 12 and i have 4 good caches. =]

Well, AH... someone referred to you as Ted in the logs, so I'm going to run with that. Ted, I'm happy to see that you're jumping right into geocaching with both feet! I looked at your "4 good caches" and I see someone who is learning a lot with each cache:

• Don't hide caches on private property.
  
• Be sure your cache isn't going to get muggled.
  
• Use a waterproof container
  
• Make sure people can get stuff into and out of your container.
  

I must say, I've seen adults with such track records, but you know the saying, "You can't teach an old dog new tricks." Well, you're still a new dog, with lots of time to learn, but like CC says, your current track record isn't going to win this discussion. Keep the hides coming, and always remember to learn something from each one!

Edited May 28, 2007 by Too Tall John

[+Confucius' Cat]

I think that allowing minors to place caches is probably not a good idea, to wit:

 

1. Minors cannot legally sign a contract, thus their assertion, by checking the appropriate boxes on the cache submission page that a cache meets guidelines and that they have adequate permission, is invalid.

 

2. In conjunction with (1), they also cannot legally agree to the terms of the disclaimer in the terms of use and therefore their guardians could conceivably seek damages in the event of injury- even when seeking a cache.

 

<snip to relevant points only>

 

 

Where did you get your law degree?

is there some part of this that you think one needs a law degree to understand?

 

I thought it was pretty common knowledge that minors could not commit to contracts (with the exception of an underage girl being legally able to sign for an abortion).

 

Did the law school from which YOU graduated tell you something different?

[+TrailGators]

Should persons be over 18 to place caches?

 

no

ditto

[+Caching Scout]

I'm 14 (with plenty of finds and a couple hides)and if I wasn't allowed to place a geocache I still would because thats one of the fun parts of this sport, and that pretty rude to not allow minors to place caches. I've seen us(minors) have better decisions than some adults

[JohnX]

I thought it was pretty common knowledge that minors could not commit to contracts (with the exception of an underage girl being legally able to sign for an abortion).

 

Did the law school from which YOU graduated tell you something different?

So C.C., the assertion you are making is that by clicking a little box on www.geocaching.com you enter into a legally binding contract? Is that correct? You don't have to pontificate when answering this question. A simple yes or no would be fine.

[+PJPeters]

Most of the minors I've seen caching, have either been with their parents, or "outdoorsey" types. Once you get past the 4-8 year old kids that can only cache with mom & dad, I'd be willing to bet that most kids would have some pretty neat, out-of-the-box hide ideas. Yeah, we may grumble a bit about a couple of them, but by and large, most caches would be pretty fun, in a childlike way.

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Ahem...yes, well, we all know that the law of Separation Of Child and Cache was well established with the "No caches near schools" rule. Clearly that rule could apply to say that no child should place a cache, in the event that a cacher happens to come looking for the cache while the child is maintaining it or that the finders might somehow be seen in association with the child, such that, in the eyes of the law, it might be seen as a potentially dangerous situation, wherein a pervert might make open use of said situation (see article five in the Nomis Juris Prudens), thusly bringing Groundspeak into open violation of the law, herein ipso facto et cetera ad hominem and so forth.

 

Yes, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Ultimately, if we try to ammend the rules until there is no risk left, then there will be no geocaching either. The frayed rope analogy is flawed: plenty of people would say you're insane for climbing that rock with any rope, frayed or otherwise. The Cat's argument is such as this.

[+Confucius' Cat]

I thought it was pretty common knowledge that minors could not commit to contracts (with the exception of an underage girl being legally able to sign for an abortion).

 

Did the law school from which YOU graduated tell you something different?

So C.C., the assertion you are making is that by clicking a little box on www.geocaching.com you enter into a legally binding contract? Is that correct? You don't have to pontificate when answering this question. A simple yes or no would be fine.

You must be a lawyer.

Demanding "yes or no" is a great ruse to keep the truth from being told. Good work.

 

I'll refer to counsel.

.tick

.tock

.tick

.*whisper whisper*

.tock

.tick

.tock

Yes, that would seem to be the best way to interpret the assertion.

 

I see that that is a faulty assumption. Thanks for guiding me to the revelation.

 

Of course the ramification of this is that no one has legally agreed to the guidelines and disclaimer.

 

Back to the original question, I am willing to bend on the recommendation. Rather than not allowing minors to place caches, perhaps it would be better worded "...strongly suggest minors seek adult guidance and supervision when placing a cache..."

 

But I have found that when posting a topic you get more discussion if you start out on one of the "poles" rather than writing a long dissertation where you cover all bases and end up sitting on the "fence."

 

*takes off Papal trappings*

[+carleenp]

I think that allowing minors to place caches is probably not a good idea, to wit:

 

1. Minors cannot legally sign a contract, thus their assertion, by checking the appropriate boxes on the cache submission page that a cache meets guidelines and that they have adequate permission, is invalid.

 

2. In conjunction with (1), they also cannot legally agree to the terms of the disclaimer in the terms of use and therefore their guardians could conceivably seek damages in the event of injury- even when seeking a cache.

 

<snip to relevant points only>

 

 

Where did you get your law degree?

is there some part of this that you think one needs a law degree to understand?

 

I thought it was pretty common knowledge that minors could not commit to contracts (with the exception of an underage girl being legally able to sign for an abortion).

 

Did the law school from which YOU graduated tell you something different?

 

Yes it did. Well actually it and my experience tells me that it is not a straightforward answer. Minors in some circumstances can sign contracts and can be held to them. In some circumstances a contract signed by a minor will not be valid, usually in cases where the minor acts to affirmatively disaffirm the contract before they reach the age of majority. It is not that they can't sign it, it is that they may be able to later disaffirm, if they do so in time, so there may or may not be an element of risk for the other contracual party. Law is rarely as straightforward as you would think. Plus, the disclaimer stuff is a whole other topic altogether, again without a clear rule for all circumstances. That is true of almost any area of law, which is why blanket statements on just about any legal issue are often partially incorrect.

Edited May 29, 2007 by carleenp

[+RussellM]

I think that geocachers under 18 are a important part of the community. I created my username in 2002, and am now 18. Do the math. I placed caches while I was under 18 and continue to do so. i also don't think that it would be possible to weed out those underage. All they would have to do is lie about their birthday.

[+flask]

i am of the opinion that if the city in question is plattsburgh, NY then the age of caching majority ought to be 21. other than that, bring on those kiddie caches. i have seen many fine caches hidden by children without the assistance of their parents.

 

permission and knowledge yes, but no assistance.

[+Confucius' Cat]

I'm 14 (with plenty of finds and a couple hides)and if I wasn't allowed to place a geocache I still would because thats one of the fun parts of this sport, and that pretty rude to not allow minors to place caches. I've seen us(minors) have better decisions than some adults

Played the wrong card there, sir.

 

it is the "hallmark" of immaturity to know you are not allowed to do something and then you do it anyway- especially if the "something" is of little importance.

 

I absolutely agree with your statement that "I've seen us(minors) have better decisions than some adults," but it is NOT the norm.

 

This post speaks well to the several who have posted "how would we regulate it" and the obvious answer is "we cannot", at least not absolutely... as with any rule or law there will always be those who defy it successfully. But GC could easily use their private registration data (assuming of course that the registration was truthful) to enforce the rule.

 

*musical tune* "When I was seventeen, I drank some very good beer..." - Homer Simpson

[JohnX]

Back to the original question, I am willing to bend on the recommendation. Rather than not allowing minors to place caches, perhaps it would be better worded "...strongly suggest minors seek adult guidance and supervision when placing a cache..."

 

But I have found that when posting a topic you get more discussion if you start out on one of the "poles" rather than writing a long dissertation where you cover all bases and end up sitting on the "fence."

 

*takes off Papal trappings*

OK, I almost have to agree with C.C., and now that he has taken off his miter and revealed a sense of humor I'll raise no objections.

[+Confucius' Cat]

I think that allowing minors to place caches is probably not a good idea, to wit:

 

1. Minors cannot legally sign a contract, thus their assertion, by checking the appropriate boxes on the cache submission page that a cache meets guidelines and that they have adequate permission, is invalid.

 

2. In conjunction with (1), they also cannot legally agree to the terms of the disclaimer in the terms of use and therefore their guardians could conceivably seek damages in the event of injury- even when seeking a cache.

 

<snip to relevant points only>

 

 

Where did you get your law degree?

is there some part of this that you think one needs a law degree to understand?

 

I thought it was pretty common knowledge that minors could not commit to contracts (with the exception of an underage girl being legally able to sign for an abortion).

 

Did the law school from which YOU graduated tell you something different?

 

Yes it did. Well actually it and my experience tells me that it is not a straightforward answer. Minors in some circumstances can sign contracts and can be held to them. In some circumstances a contract signed by a minor will not be valid, usually in cases where the minor acts to affirmatively disaffirm the contract before they reach the age of majority. It is not that they can't sign it, it is that they may be able to later disaffirm, if they do so in time, so there may or may not be an element of risk for the other contracual party. Law is rarely as straightforward as you would think. Plus, the disclaimer stuff is a whole other topic altogether, again without a clear rule for all circumstances. That is true of almost any area of law, which is why blanket statements on just about any legal issue are often partially incorrect.

So basically, the "law" is whatever a judge says it is on a given particular case. This is not a new concept to me as I have actually had that understanding since my many classes in police procedure. Sorry if my post was interpreted as a "legal opinion" I hope I don't get disbarred. (but then that wouldn't be a really big deal since i don't drink)

 

i guess if lawyers who make it their business to know the law as well as it can be known still can't give a straight and definitive answer to any particular issue because of the many intricate variations and ramifications, us lay people are simply up the proverbial creek when it comes to trying to stay within the limits imposed by our benevolent government..

 

Are you SURE ignorance of the law is no excuse?

 

(edit to add- I REALLY ought to start reading profiles b4 I post )

Edited May 29, 2007 by Confucius' Cat

[+Too Tall John]

The frayed rope analogy is flawed: plenty of people would say you're insane for climbing that rock with any rope, frayed or otherwise. The Cat's argument is such as this.

Actually, since you want to follow the frayed rope analogy, Cat's argument is was that (in the analogy) minors shouldn't be allowed to climb the 100' cliff without parental permission.

 

It seems seems any time someone comes forward with a concern that may be legit, there's always a chorus of voices ready to shout them down by saying "If it ain't broke don't fix it." What I'm really saying here is that that is such a cop out. If there is something that is in place to protect you and it works under normal circumstances (when you don't really need it anyways) it might look like it works. When you really need it and it crumbles under pressure, where does it leave you? In a crumpled heap at the bottom of the cliff. If you think something is unnecessary, say why, not "If it ain't broke..."

[+Too Tall John]

Are you SURE ignorance of the law is no excuse?

Sure it is! Thing is, a judge doesn't care about excuses.

[+Confucius' Cat]

The frayed rope analogy is flawed: plenty of people would say you're insane for climbing that rock with any rope, frayed or otherwise. The Cat's argument is such as this.

Actually, since you want to follow the frayed rope analogy, Cat's argument is was that (in the analogy) minors shouldn't be allowed to climb the 100' cliff without parental permission.

 

It seems seems any time someone comes forward with a concern that may be legit, there's always a chorus of voices ready to shout them down by saying "If it ain't broke don't fix it." What I'm really saying here is that that is such a cop out. If there is something that is in place to protect you and it works under normal circumstances (when you don't really need it anyways) it might look like it works. When you really need it and it crumbles under pressure, where does it leave you? In a crumpled heap at the bottom of the cliff. If you think something is unnecessary, say why, not "If it ain't broke..."

A very good analysis.

 

But your analogy used a hobby that most people consider inherently risky no matter what.

 

Perhaps a better analogy would be the frayed seatbelt; frayed in a place where you normally wouldn't see it.

 

If someone informed you, "hey i think your seatbelt is defective ... down here under the seat where you might not have noticed it." Would you then say, "It's worked perfectly so far, besides it doesn't matter, I'm not going to wreck today."?

 

I'm not disagreeing with those who say we don't need more rules, but I think the potential problem is real and at least a few bad cache placements could be avoided if people would use better judgment in placing them. Adult judgment is usually superior to the kids, believe it or not. (I know a kid will never believe that- at least not till they get older.)

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Actually, since you want to follow the frayed rope analogy, Cat's argument is was that (in the analogy) minors shouldn't be allowed to climb the 100' cliff without parental permission.

 

Precisely. Geocaching is not as dangerous as climbing a rock wall, so why should it be treated as though it were?

 

Geocaching in particular is not nearly as dangerous as riding in a car, so forget the seatbelt analogy. Yes, I know you have to ride in a car to get to the cache, but the act of caching is far less dangerous than the act of hurtling yourself at five times faster than most people can run.

 

Perhaps we shouldn't let kids dress themselves in the morning, as the act of placing and finding objects is a dangerous passtime that only adults can handle.

[+sbell111]

It's interesting. The OP's post runs completely contrary to my impression of the game. You see, I consider geocaching to be a kid's game that us adults get to enjoy, also.

 

Placing a good cache is not rocket science. I see no reason to believe that age has anything to do with it. In fact, I suspect that the average child just starting to play the game has MUCH more guidance than the average noob adult. This parental support may catch errors that solo adults would not.

[+LivesWithMonkeys]

You see, I consider geocaching to be a kid's game that us adults get to enjoy, also.

I couldn't agree more.

Placing a good cache is not rocket science.

In numerous discussions I have already seen on these forums, it is pretty much a foregone conclusion that there is no definition of a "good cache". Therefore, how can you predict the probability of a person of a certain age placing a "good cache" when you can't even define the term?

 

I see no reason to believe that age has anything to do with it.

Hear! Hear! So true!!!

It seems the OP has 2 concerns. One regarding judgement and another on the subject of legal issues.

 

On the issue of judgement, perhaps there might be a value in some form of litmus test prior to being permitted to register a cache here on GC.com. However, I have never felt that age is a valid test of anything. I know many 9yr olds who seem much more mature than many 30yr olds I know. I know 6yr olds who act with better judgement than many 18yr olds. And since there are so many different types of cachers who enjoy many different types of caches, any test could not possibly cover the entire gambit of what is considered a good cache placed with proper judgement.

 

As for the legal concerns, I am no lawyer, but having a lawyer as a father, I'm the next best thing (imagine having to just about go to court every time you got in trouble for anything, wanted a change in your allowance, getting the car keys, etc.) Add in a step-mom, uncles, cousins, all lawyers as well as teenage years spent as a delinquent and I think my resume is sufficient.

It seems the OP is concerned with the possibility of civil suits, and, unfortunately, there is no way to stop them. At least in the U.S., people can sue anyone for anything. Someone gets hurt searching for a cache and they could sue Groundspeak, the hider of the cache, the manufacturer of the rope that broke (in previous example), the maker of the shoes that slipped, even Issac Newton's family for his "invention" of gravity. I was just reading a story about a baseball player who got drunk and killed himself in a car crash when he ran into a tow truck pulling a disabled car off of the hgihway. The baseball player's father is suing not only the bar where the booze came from, but the tow truck driver (for not getting the car off of the road fast enough) and the guy whose car was disabled (for not taking better care of his car)..Sheesh!!!

 

Can they win the law suits? Who knows....maybe.

Can they make you spend a fortune in legal fees to defend yourself? Possibly.

Do disclaimer like the one of Geocaching.com and Groundspeak's web sites protect anyone? Doubtful. Mostly, discalimers are there to scare people off from litigation.

 

Should we throw more rules into the game with very little chance of them protecting anyone from anything? I vote no.

Edited May 29, 2007 by LivesWithMonkeys

[+sbell111]

I will never change my actions out of hope to avoid a frivilous lawsuit. That's what lawyers and insurance are for.

[+angevine]

My stepchildren, ages 13 and 15, have each placed a cache. A great deal more thought and creativity went into these caches than I've seen in a *lot* of caches placed by adults. They take their cache-owner responsibilities very seriously -- again, something I don't see happening consistently with adults.

 

Is there a reason you're asking this question? Why on earth would you want to cut off some of the most enthusiastic cachers from one of the joys of geocaching? Has something happened to make you feel like this is a worthy cause?

 

-- Jeannette