Geocaching API

[+-Jamz-]

This there some type of Geocaching API that a developer can use to query is profile stats?

-James

[misbach]

yeah, I'm looking for the same thing! Is there an API in the works???

[+sbell111]

There was a time when the answer to all forum questions was 'pocket queries'.

 

That time is now.

[+Prime Suspect]

yeah, I'm looking for the same thing! Is there an API in the works???

Not if the developers understand the meaning of "prioritization". And I think they do.

Edited July 16, 2008 by Prime Suspect

[hopmedic]

This would be great - and goes along with the topic I posted yesterday http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...wtopic=199015... I've made a small app for Windows Mobile phone, and will adapt it to SmartPhone if I ever get it working, but for now I don't know how to send login info so all I get back for location is question marks. Everything else I want is there, but you can't do much without location...

 

What I want to do is get info from GC (right now I'm scraping from the web page of the cache) and send to MSN Direct to my car GPS (Nuvi 780). Oh - and I want to be able to do it from my phone when I get the email for a new cache in the area. So, I want to be able to do it only using the waypoint (and login info, of course).

Edited July 18, 2008 by hopmedic

[+StarBrand]

This would be great - and goes along with the topic I posted yesterday http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...wtopic=199015... I've made a small app for Windows Mobile phone, and will adapt it to SmartPhone if I ever get it working, but for now I don't know how to send login info so all I get back for location is question marks. Everything else I want is there, but you can't do much without location...

 

What I want to do is get info from GC (right now I'm scraping from the web page of the cache) and send to MSN Direct to my car GPS (Nuvi 780). Oh - and I want to be able to do it from my phone when I get the email for a new cache in the area. So, I want to be able to do it only using the waypoint (and login info, of course).

Any form of scraping the website by automated means violates the TOU. You need to seek permission from HQ.

[+Stargazer22]

This would be great - and goes along with the topic I posted yesterday http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...wtopic=199015... I've made a small app for Windows Mobile phone, and will adapt it to SmartPhone if I ever get it working, but for now I don't know how to send login info so all I get back for location is question marks. Everything else I want is there, but you can't do much without location...

 

What I want to do is get info from GC (right now I'm scraping from the web page of the cache) and send to MSN Direct to my car GPS (Nuvi 780). Oh - and I want to be able to do it from my phone when I get the email for a new cache in the area. So, I want to be able to do it only using the waypoint (and login info, of course).

Any form of scraping the website by automated means violates the TOU. You need to seek permission from HQ.

 

Here's the pertinent section, quoted from the TOU: (I bolded the key wording)

 

5. Access and Interference

Much of the information on the Site is updated on a real time basis and is proprietary or is licensed to Groundspeak by our users or third parties. You agree that you will not use any robot, spider, scraper or other automated means to access the Site for any purpose without our express written permission. Additionally, you agree that you will not: (a) take any action that imposes, or may impose in our sole discretion an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on our infrastructure; or ( interfere or attempt to interfere with the proper working of the Site or any activities conducted on the Site or other measures we may use to prevent or restrict access to the Site.

[CoyoteRed]

This would be great - and goes along with the topic I posted yesterday http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...wtopic=199015... I've made a small app for Windows Mobile phone, and will adapt it to SmartPhone if I ever get it working, but for now I don't know how to send login info so all I get back for location is question marks. Everything else I want is there, but you can't do much without location...

 

What I want to do is get info from GC (right now I'm scraping from the web page of the cache) and send to MSN Direct to my car GPS (Nuvi 780). Oh - and I want to be able to do it from my phone when I get the email for a new cache in the area. So, I want to be able to do it only using the waypoint (and login info, of course).

Sounds like it would be easier to use WAP and PQs. The tools are already there.

 

I load caches to my Palm, and both hand held and auto GPSs.

 

Sure, there are limitations and calls for getting past or around those limitations, but the basic mechanisms are there.

[+Michael]

This would be great - and goes along with the topic I posted yesterday http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...wtopic=199015... I've made a small app for Windows Mobile phone, and will adapt it to SmartPhone if I ever get it working, but for now I don't know how to send login info so all I get back for location is question marks. Everything else I want is there, but you can't do much without location...

 

What I want to do is get info from GC (right now I'm scraping from the web page of the cache) and send to MSN Direct to my car GPS (Nuvi 780). Oh - and I want to be able to do it from my phone when I get the email for a new cache in the area. So, I want to be able to do it only using the waypoint (and login info, of course).

 

From the Terms of Use.

 

5. Access and Interference

Much of the information on the Site is updated on a real time basis and is proprietary or is licensed to Groundspeak by our users or third parties. You agree that you will not use any robot, spider, scraper or other automated means to access the Site for any purpose without our express written permission. Additionally, you agree that you will not: (a) take any action that imposes, or may impose in our sole discretion an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on our infrastructure; or ( interfere or attempt to interfere with the proper working of the Site or any activities conducted on the Site or other measures we may use to prevent or restrict access to the Site.

[hopmedic]

Given the above, an API or webservice is a better alternative. What I was looking to do when I said that my program scrapes isn't that it does anything automated. It doesn't go out searching and filling up its own database. It loads the web page for the waypoint that I put into it manually, and grabs the information I want and displays it for me. The next step would be to send it to MSN Direct so my GPSr can get it wirelessly without having to hand enter the coordinates (which I would have to convert otherwise to xx.xxxxx format). The idea doesn't work anyway, because I can't send authentication info, which is needed to get the coordinates - the most important part.

 

It would be great if Groundspeak would give developers an API that we could use to take advantage of the latest in communication advances. I can get movie times, news, weather, and even gas prices displayed on my GPSr but I can't get a GeoCache without hooking it to a wire or entering coordinates manually. Oh, and just so you know, I'm not using the GPS in my phone because the powers that be at Sprint decided that I didn't need to have access to that functionality unless I paid for the service they offer. Yeah, that's nice....

Edited July 18, 2008 by hopmedic

[+KoosKoos]

Maybe?

 

http://api.Groundspeak.com/GeocachingAPI_1_0/services.asmx

[Jeremy]

There is a private API and it is available for trusted partners. We have no plans to offer an open public API at this time. It was considered in the past but the current decison is to keep it private.

[smcb]

There is a private API and it is available for trusted partners. We have no plans to offer an open public API at this time. It was considered in the past but the current decison is to keep it private.

 

So I take it that "Trimble", the makers of Geocache Navigator are a trusted parnter? And are probably paying a nice fee to use the API? (since they charge a monthly fee to use their software, which I find insane, you should only have to pay once, and maybe pay for significant upgrades)

 

I'm a software developer, and am currently playing around with writing a GPS application for windows mobile phones in my spare time, and would love to integrate it with the Geocaching database.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

...I'm a software developer, and am currently playing around with writing a GPS application for windows mobile phones in my spare time, and would love to integrate it with the Geocaching database.

Hmmm.... do you realize the server load burden this could cause if the app were deployed to a number of mobile phones? Who would you expect to pay for this burden on the server, database and backbone infrastructure? Or, more accurately, how are you planning to reimburse Groundspeak for the increased infrastructure burden? One illustration for you: at well-known social networking sites such as MySpace, Facebook and Bebo, API application creators/marketers pay a monthly fee for the privilege of the API and the resultant load.

Edited September 11, 2008 by Vinny & Sue Team

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

...I'm a software developer, and am currently playing around with writing a GPS application for windows mobile phones in my spare time, and would love to integrate it with the Geocaching database.

Hmmm.... do you realize the server load burden this could cause if the app were deployed to a number of mobile phones? Who would you expect to pay for this burden on the server, database and backbone infrastructure? Or, more accurately, how are you planning to reimburse Groundspeak for the increased infrastructure burden? One illustration for you: at well-known social networking sites such as MySpace, Facebook and Bebo, API application creators/marketers pay a monthly fee for the privilege of the API and the resultant load.

While I am sure that nobody at the frog palace particularly cares what I think I would pay double the annual membership without any problem. Those folks are obviously better businessmen than I, they're making money off the game while I am just spending it, but I have thought ever since I joined that free membership should be limited to 90 days and the membership fee should be higher.

 

Further, if the capability is enabled which allows me to cache with my Blackjack II smartphone I would pay for that as an extra service.

 

I, and I dare say 'we' for I am sure many others think like this, want API access enough to pay for it.

 

I don't think cost is the issue.

Edited September 11, 2008 by TheAlabamaRambler

[+sbell111]

Soemtimes, you just have to accept 'No' as an answer.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Soemtimes, you just have to accept 'No' as an answer.

True. I saw Jeremy's answer and have no problem understanding and accepting "no". That does not, however, mean that we can't talk among ourselves about it.

[CoyoteRed]

I don't think cost is the issue.

Some of these services would cut down on the load thus saving money if other factors weren't at play. What those are I could only speculate.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

While I am sure that nobody at the frog palace particularly cares what I think I would pay double the annual membership without any problem. Those folks are obviously better businessmen than I, they're making money off the game while I am just spending it, but I have thought ever since I joined that free membership should be limited to 90 days and the membership fee should be higher.

I agree with you entirely about the palatability of a higher membership fee and also limiting free memberships to 90 days!

 

Further, if the capability is enabled which allows me to cache with my Blackjack II smartphone I would pay for that as an extra service.

 

I, and I dare say 'we' for I am sure many others think like this, want API access enough to pay for it.

 

I don't think cost is the issue.

Actually, I think you have a good point here, that many members would be willing to pay more for more advanced features, and while it would not interest me personally, I am sure that this idea would have many fans!

[+sseegars]

but I have thought ever since I joined that free membership should be limited to 90 days and the membership fee should be higher.

 

WHY?

[+The Hawks]

but I have thought ever since I joined that free membership should be limited to 90 days and the membership fee should be higher.

 

WHY?

 

I wonder if it is coincident that I just asked myself that very question?

[+sbell111]

Given Jeremy's stated position on the issue, I don't believe that there will ever be a 'expiration date' on free memberships.

[+sseegars]

Given Jeremy's stated position on the issue, I don't believe that there will ever be a 'expiration date' on free memberships.

 

What is Jeremy's stated position? Please.

[+Prime Suspect]

Given Jeremy's stated position on the issue, I don't believe that there will ever be a 'expiration date' on free memberships.

 

What is Jeremy's stated position? Please.

Maybe someone has a link to the exact quote, but it basically said that when new site functions are added, some may be for everyone, and some may be for PMs only. But no functions will ever be removed from free memberships.

[+sbell111]

Given Jeremy's stated position on the issue, I don't believe that there will ever be a 'expiration date' on free memberships.

 

What is Jeremy's stated position? Please.

Maybe someone has a link to the exact quote, but it basically said that when new site functions are added, some may be for everyone, and some may be for PMs only. But no functions will ever be removed from free memberships.

"... traditional geocaching itself will never be a pay to play service."

Edited September 18, 2008 by sbell111

[+widdi]

There is a private API and it is available for trusted partners. We have no plans to offer an open public API at this time. It was considered in the past but the current decison is to keep it private.

 

and I hoped to get a NET-webservice for programming a tool, to log my own coins, I bring to events :-/

It isn't funny to log coin for coin.

 

I would create a database, to retrieve them with one click... but I'm lucky.. I've got only 12 activated coins at the moment. Other users will have more ;-)

 

3 coins are stolen. So I collected all my coins and will not set them free again. So I wanted to take them (and new ones) to events and log them everytime

[+Zor]

Now this may sound like it's a bit out of line, but I have one theory as to why GSP doesn't want a public API.

 

The moment the GC database is accessible via an API, that means that GC.Com would have to accept legitimate competition from other listing services. In no time flat, other folks would snag a copy of the entire listing database and look to find ways of creating their own listing service using the GC database as a base for their listings. By the database being open, they'd have to relinquish some of their "ownership" of the information and allow users to do what they want with it. I think this is what is a concern to them.

 

In giving up that right, it would allow other users to make use of those listings to create other listing services that would be in direct competition with GSP.

 

It appears that specific partner companies are allowed to access the API but I suspect that those partnerships are limited, and that there are specific and somewhat severe conditions as to what they can use the data for.

 

Realistically, I would be extremely surprised to ever see GSP open their API to the general public. I don't agree with it, but I can understand the business logic of not wanting to open up a database that could, in theory anyway, result in the collapse of the company. I don't think that would ever happen, but I can definitely see how some people might view it that way.

 

Just my thoughts...

[+ChileHead]

What if I don't want my cache data available outside of geocaching.com? It's my listing, my cache, my data. If I want it listed on navicache.com or terracaching.com or any other new service that might come along, I'll put it there.

 

Before opening an API to the general public, you might need to get permission from the cache owners whose data is being made public outside of geocaching.com

[+9Key]

What if I don't want my cache data available outside of geocaching.com? It's my listing, my cache, my data. If I want it listed on navicache.com or terracaching.com or any other new service that might come along, I'll put it there.

 

Before opening an API to the general public, you might need to get permission from the cache owners whose data is being made public outside of geocaching.com

I'm pretty sure it is not yours once you submit it to the site. The physical cache is yours, but all of the data on GS's servers is theirs.

[+linuxxpert]

What if I don't want my cache data available outside of geocaching.com? It's my listing, my cache, my data. If I want it listed on navicache.com or terracaching.com or any other new service that might come along, I'll put it there.

 

Before opening an API to the general public, you might need to get permission from the cache owners whose data is being made public outside of geocaching.com

 

Your listing, your cache and your data.... but owned by Groundspeak.....

[+wavector]

I'm pretty sure it is not yours once you submit it to the site. The physical cache is yours, but all of the data on GS's servers is theirs.

 

Groundspeak is automatically granted a "license" to use the "submissions" but the "submissions" still belong to the submitters.

 

All comments, articles, tutorials, screenshots, pictures, graphics, tools, downloads, and all other materials submitted to Groundspeak in connection with the Site or available through the Site (collectively, "Submissions") remain the property and copyright of the original author. If You submit Submissions to Groundspeak, You must adhere to any applicable submission guidelines that may be posted from time to time on the Site. By submitting any Submission to Groundspeak, You grant Groundspeak a worldwide, non-exclusive, transferable, perpetual, irrevocable, fully-paid royalty-free license and right to use, reproduce, distribute, import, broadcast, transmit, modify and create derivative works of, license, offer to sell, and sell, rent, lease or lend copies of, publicly display and publicly perform that Submission for any purpose and without restriction or obligation to You.

[CoyoteRed]

The moment the GC database is accessible via an API, that means that GC.Com would have to accept legitimate competition from other listing services. In no time flat, other folks would snag a copy of the entire listing database and look to find ways of creating their own listing service using the GC database as a base for their listings.

While I can't speak for the thinking of TPTB, but I don't think that would happen with any success.

 

First, a small listing service could that very thing right now through PQs. It would be need to be regional or otherwise small-scale, but doable. It hasn't happened.

 

Second, the backlash from the community would be tremendous. Doing it in a "peaceful" way simply couldn't happen, IMHO.

 

Third, folks aren't going to go to another site for only a few functions when dealing with any one cache. The owner is going to list it here and he's going to deal with seeker here. He's not going to want to hunt down multiple sites do deal folks who log there. There simply isn't going to be enough of a convenience for a parasitic "listing" site to work.

 

Besides, the OP is looking for an API to provide for statistical display. An API could be provided for limited data access without any fear of a mirror site being created.

 

I suspect the reason the API is being pushed way back on the back burners is development priorities. It feels to me that Groundspeak is actually moving away from the core GPS hobby that built the company and constantly looks at all of the latest whiz-bang technology. Partner agreements with companies like Trimble to allow them fairly exclusive direct access to the data is a tremendous leverage in negotiations. I, personally, think opening the very same access to the paying masses would provide better services in the long run, but that's just me. (Case in point, GSAK.)

 

Also, could be they are still looking to blend geocaching into the Waymarking scheme and doesn't want to waste development time on an API that would be obsolete in short order.

[+eagsc7]

What if I don't want my cache data available outside of geocaching.com? It's my listing, my cache, my data. If I want it listed on navicache.com or terracaching.com or any other new service that might come along, I'll put it there.

 

Before opening an API to the general public, you might need to get permission from the cache owners whose data is being made public outside of geocaching.com

 

Exactly... I want my caches removed from being able to be listed on Garmin.com.

 

Where's the checkbox for that option?

 

The Steaks

[CoyoteRed]

What if I don't want my cache data available outside of geocaching.com? It's my listing, my cache, my data. If I want it listed on navicache.com or terracaching.com or any other new service that might come along, I'll put it there.

 

Before opening an API to the general public, you might need to get permission from the cache owners whose data is being made public outside of geocaching.com

Exactly... I want my caches removed from being able to be listed on Garmin.com.

 

Where's the checkbox for that option?

 

The Steaks

Might want to re-read the TOU. After submission, Groundspeak has the right to do pretty much whatever they please.

[+ras_oscar]

What is Jeremy's stated position? Please.

Maybe someone has a link to the exact quote, but it basically said that when new site functions are added, some may be for everyone, and some may be for PMs only. But no functions will ever be removed from free memberships.

 

I am a NOOB. Been caching for 4 months. Recently upgraded to Pm status because I chose to. If the free membership had an exparation not sure if I would have started in the first place. From a business model perspective, I believe that allowing people to enter and be a part of the community on their terms cultivates more longevity and more players That means more traffic on caches, more variety of new hides which grows the communioty overall.

[+Genoist]

Would allowing someone to use the API to make a mobile device friendly presentation of the site actually end up being LESS of a burden to the servers? I know if there was a good, easy to use, PDA/Smartphone-friendly version of the site, I'd probably do ALL of my logging from my phone. As it stands right now I have run the full site to upload my field notes, then log the caches. I'm pretty sure that a mobile version would use a lot less bandwidth than the full site is consuming.

[+AdmSteck]

Would allowing someone to use the API to make a mobile device friendly presentation of the site actually end up being LESS of a burden to the servers? I know if there was a good, easy to use, PDA/Smartphone-friendly version of the site, I'd probably do ALL of my logging from my phone. As it stands right now I have run the full site to upload my field notes, then log the caches. I'm pretty sure that a mobile version would use a lot less bandwidth than the full site is consuming.

 

I would have to agree. I recently upgraded from a regular phone to a blackberry with unlimited data and a built in GPS. From what I have seen so far I have two options for caching with it. Pay Trimbe's fee or set up some pq's or download from the search results page to get a gpx only the device that I can load in with a cheaper or free app. If there were an api I would only be downloading like 20 or so of the nearest caches in a text based format, no images, no css or javascript files, no scheduling of pq, no email..... you get the point. If they don't want to open up an api I can accept that.

 

But I do think that in all fairness if they are not going to offer other developers a chance, they need to try to keep their partners operating on the same level and not discriminate against users based on which device they own. The iPhone app looks amazing and only a one time fee is even better. I only cache occasionally so paying for a monthly service just doesn't make sense. (Not to mention Trimble doesn't support my Storm yet either) If Groundspeak spent the time to develop the iPhone app, are they working on any other versions?

 

Just my two cents.

[sol77]

Does anyone know where I can find information on the current API? I'd like to read up on terms for connecting to it, the cost, what it gives access to and so on.

 

Oh, and +1 for having a public API.

[+StarBrand]

Does anyone know where I can find information on the current API? I'd like to read up on terms for connecting to it, the cost, what it gives access to and so on.

 

Oh, and +1 for having a public API.

Contact the good folks at HQ - contact@geocaching.com

[cacheman22]

I agree with you entirely about the palatability of a higher membership fee and also limiting free memberships to 90 days!

How many people who only cache on a casual basis, say 4 times a year do you think would pay a yearly membership fee? I wouldn't.

[sol77]

Does anyone know where I can find information on the current API? I'd like to read up on terms for connecting to it, the cost, what it gives access to and so on.

 

Oh, and +1 for having a public API.

Contact the good folks at HQ - contact@geocaching.com

Thanks StarBrand. Was hoping there was a page where I could find the information without relying on email, but that will suffice.

[+Frank Broughton]

 

Given Jeremy's stated position on the issue, I don't believe that there will ever be a 'expiration date' on free memberships.

 

What is Jeremy's stated position? Please.

Maybe someone has a link to the exact quote, but it basically said that when new site functions are added, some may be for everyone, and some may be for PMs only. But no functions will ever be removed from free memberships.

 

oh yea - GE k hiccup km hiccup kml.....

Edited May 7, 2009 by Frank Broughton

[jholly]

Does anyone know where I can find information on the current API? I'd like to read up on terms for connecting to it, the cost, what it gives access to and so on.

 

Oh, and +1 for having a public API.

Contact the good folks at HQ - contact@geocaching.com

Thanks StarBrand. Was hoping there was a page where I could find the information without relying on email, but that will suffice.

 

post #12 of this thread should provide the answers you need.

 

Jim

[sol77]

Does anyone know where I can find information on the current API? I'd like to read up on terms for connecting to it, the cost, what it gives access to and so on.

 

Oh, and +1 for having a public API.

Contact the good folks at HQ - contact@geocaching.com

Thanks StarBrand. Was hoping there was a page where I could find the information without relying on email, but that will suffice.

post #12 of this thread should provide the answers you need.Jim

Heh, I think you misunderstood. I read that post and wanted to know more about their API. I've been looking for information for developers and potential partners but so far come up short. I don't like sending of email that make me sound uninformed so was hoping to be able to read up before contacting them. The second statement was just to show my opinion about a potential public API. But thanks for taking the time to provide an answer, the gesture is appreciated.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

But you are still misunderstanding. That post by Jeremy is the only public information you are going to find. It's private and he doesn't have any plans to release it to the public. But contacting Groundspeak is the only way to get information about it. But don't hold your breath because it's doubtful that any individual will be considered "a trusted partner".

[+Frank Broughton]

But you are still misunderstanding. That post by Jeremy is the only public information you are going to find. It's private and he doesn't have any plans to release it to the public. But contacting Groundspeak is the only way to get information about it. But don't hold your breath because it's doubtful that any individual will be considered "a trusted partner".

 

I beg to differ, lots of millionaire individuals out there. The api is about cash! and caches too - but CASH will talk!

[jholly]

But you are still misunderstanding. That post by Jeremy is the only public information you are going to find. It's private and he doesn't have any plans to release it to the public. But contacting Groundspeak is the only way to get information about it. But don't hold your breath because it's doubtful that any individual will be considered "a trusted partner".

 

I beg to differ, lots of millionaire individuals out there. The api is about cash! and caches too - but CASH will talk!

 

what a cheap shot. Nothing was mentioned about who the trusted partners are and no mention that for the right price access can be bought.

 

Jim

[+Frank Broughton]

But you are still misunderstanding. That post by Jeremy is the only public information you are going to find. It's private and he doesn't have any plans to release it to the public. But contacting Groundspeak is the only way to get information about it. But don't hold your breath because it's doubtful that any individual will be considered "a trusted partner".

 

I beg to differ, lots of millionaire individuals out there. The api is about cash! and caches too - but CASH will talk!

 

what a cheap shot. Nothing was mentioned about who the trusted partners are and no mention that for the right price access can be bought.

 

Jim

 

Cheap, how so Jim? I simply was saying that if some rich individual wanted to play - the money they have would be a good tool to allow them to be trusted. The old saying about money talks. If that is cheap then you changed the meaning of cheap.

 

My premise stands.

[jholly]

But you are still misunderstanding. That post by Jeremy is the only public information you are going to find. It's private and he doesn't have any plans to release it to the public. But contacting Groundspeak is the only way to get information about it. But don't hold your breath because it's doubtful that any individual will be considered "a trusted partner".

 

I beg to differ, lots of millionaire individuals out there. The api is about cash! and caches too - but CASH will talk!

 

what a cheap shot. Nothing was mentioned about who the trusted partners are and no mention that for the right price access can be bought.

 

Jim

 

Cheap, how so Jim? I simply was saying that if some rich individual wanted to play - the money they have would be a good tool to allow them to be trusted. The old saying about money talks. If that is cheap then you changed the meaning of cheap.

 

My premise stands.

 

I would violate the TOU of the forum if I expressed my views. Lets just say it seems from your comments you never met Jeremy in person.

 

Jim

[+Frank Broughton]

But you are still misunderstanding. That post by Jeremy is the only public information you are going to find. It's private and he doesn't have any plans to release it to the public. But contacting Groundspeak is the only way to get information about it. But don't hold your breath because it's doubtful that any individual will be considered "a trusted partner".

 

I beg to differ, lots of millionaire individuals out there. The api is about cash! and caches too - but CASH will talk!

 

what a cheap shot. Nothing was mentioned about who the trusted partners are and no mention that for the right price access can be bought.

 

Jim

 

Cheap, how so Jim? I simply was saying that if some rich individual wanted to play - the money they have would be a good tool to allow them to be trusted. The old saying about money talks. If that is cheap then you changed the meaning of cheap.

 

My premise stands.

 

I would violate the TOU of the forum if I expressed my views. Lets just say it seems from your comments you never met Jeremy in person.

 

Jim

 

NO I have not, but I have read his words and seen him use words like "done in spite" (on this forum) in what he did in the beginning, so that has influenced my thinking. I have been saying some strong things about GS on some other threads as of late so perhaps I just shud up about it all eh? But the reality is the reality.

 

I repent, I shall not say another word against the business model of GS till I meet than man myself. If I was not sick from chemo treatment I am in the middle of right now I would not even be on the forums but out in the woods.

 

Jim, thank you. I will be quiet about it I promise, but it so hard because so many threads around here seem to prod one into being negative and critical.

 

Okay?