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yeeoldcacher

New version of Topo showing on Garmins site

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I was browsing the site and saw this

 

http://www8.garmin.com/cartography/mapSource/topous.jsp

 

Still not 24k, but says new data, shading, elevation profile capability. Anybody seen this yet?

 

This is the new Topo product that has been rumored about. Cool

 

ETA: I played around with it on the map viewer, and the roads in a few areas that I checked seemed to be fairly up to date. It still has small map segments, I am sure this is to help users who have fixed memory units

 

ETA2: It looks good, I will probably pick it up if I can find it for a discount.

Edited by CenTexDodger

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The picture on the webpage shows the shading, much better than the older version. It does show a few more roads in my neighborhood as well. The shading alone is a big improvement.

 

screen3xl.jpg

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Looking at their map viewer, it kinda looks like it's still using lots of small regions. Kinda surprising they'd continue to do that with the limits on map segments you can load.

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As CenTexDodger said, that is probably due to the fact that many people still have units with internal memory sizes down to less than 2mb of memory.

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Locked or unlocked, that is the big question?

 

There is no mention of locked on the page for it.

 

AFAIK, the locked products are done so due to agreements with their data provider (NavTeq)

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Locked or unlocked, that is the big question?

 

There is no mention of locked on the page for it.

 

AFAIK, the locked products are done so due to agreements with their data provider (NavTeq)

 

I have to say that I expected the scale to be better. Also I would like to see it on the gps. The shading is nice but if it doesn't carry over to my 60cx then I do not think it is worth it.

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Looks like street data has been updated and even residential streets (at least in the LA area) are now labeled. This might now be a great product for those how do not want (or cannot use) autorouting. One big limitation of the old topo software is that it was nearly useless in town.

 

The shading is nice and it looks like the contour lines are smoother (less angular) than the old version.

 

Of course, the 1:100,000 scale is a BIG dissapointment, but I suspect 1:24,000 scale would be prohibitively expensive given the cost of the limited coverage 24K National Park maps.

 

Another thing I noticed is that the contour interval went from 131.2 feet (40 meters) to 150 feet (45.7 meters). More convienent for the metric-challenged but it means less detailed mapping. I only checked a few mountainous areas; not sure if this it true for all areas.

Edited by Glenn W

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I'm disappointed that the maps are only 1:100,000. Why isn't their more demand for 1:24,000 scale?

 

I think there is demand there, but IIRC there was a response posted here from Garmin that there were too many gaps in the Data to do a 24k map of the entire US.

 

Even though this is 100k, it does fix many of the limitations posted about the old US Topo.

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I do wonder how many segment they will devide UP Topp 2008 in.

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I do wonder how many segment they will devide UP Topp 2008 in.

 

AFAIK, the segments that show up on the Map viewer correspond to the segments that are actually in the product. Just looking on there, it looks like a bunch of segments (similar to the old Topo). As I stated earlier, this is probably for those users with fixed memory handhelds.

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ETA2: It looks good, I will probably pick it up if I can find it for a discount.

I agree this looks like a nice improvement. A big plus is I see streets are now labeled (around my area at least). I just ordered the DVD from Tiger.GPS for $89.99.

Edited by Timpat

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Anyone know why the islands of Oahu and Hawai'i are only partially shaded in Garmin's coverage map? Imprecise or limited data?

 

I agree that it looks cool, and I will serious consider it, especially now that I have a Legend Cx...

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I agree this looks like a nice improvement. A big plus is I see streets are now labeled (around my area at least). I just ordered the DVD from Tiger.GPS for $89.99.

Is that the 2008 version?

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I agree this looks like a nice improvement. A big plus is I see streets are now labeled (around my area at least). I just ordered the DVD from Tiger.GPS for $89.99.

Is that the 2008 version?

Yes it is.

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It looks good. Now I wish that they would upgrade Topo Canada. I wonder if the new Topo US autoroutes, the old Topo Canada does.

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Anyone know why the islands of Oahu and Hawai'i are only partially shaded in Garmin's coverage map? Imprecise or limited data?

 

I agree that it looks cool, and I will serious consider it, especially now that I have a Legend Cx...

 

The shading is intended to simulate the shadow cast by the sun shining on one side of a mountain and not the other. If the whole Island was shaded, there would be no contrast.

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I agree this looks like a nice improvement. A big plus is I see streets are now labeled (around my area at least). I just ordered the DVD from Tiger.GPS for $89.99.

Is that the 2008 version?

Yes it is.

 

Link? I don't see 2008 at all.

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Link? I don't see 2008 at all.

Here is the link for Garmin US Topo 2008, and here's the link for TigerGPS where I ordered my DVD. Currently my order is back-ordered. They expect to get the product back in stock within 2-3 days (as of May 25th- 6pm EST).

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Here is the link for Garmin US Topo 2008, and here's the link for TigerGPS where I ordered my DVD. Currently my order is back-ordered. They expect to get the product back in stock within 2-3 days (as of May 25th- 6pm EST).

 

Thank you. I don't know why but whatever I searched for on TigerGPS ("Topo 2008", "Topo"), just didn't show the 2008 version in the list of results.

 

Thanks for sharing, again... I was about to pony up for Topo USA and I guess my hesitation really paid off.

Edited by not_timmins

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Why bother about the scale ? It doesn't mean anything with computerised data. What is important is the level of details, contour lines..., isn't ?

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Why bother about the scale ? It doesn't mean anything with computerised data. What is important is the level of details, contour lines..., isn't ?

 

I think that is what they were referring to with the term "scale". These are 1:100,000 scale maps instead of the more detailed 1:24,000 scale.

 

Knowing what it is, I lke it. IMHO it addresses most of the major complaints about the current Topo USA such as:

1. Out of date street maps

2. roads not being labelled

3. Lack of searchability of the POI data.

4. No vertical profiling.

5. (I am guessing) that you do not have to load it from the disks/hack the registry.

 

It looks like a major improvement over the current Topo USA. I ordered a copy from Tiger as well.I am excited to see it and dig into it!

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The Sky is falling ! The sky is falling !........Well, maybe not, but the mountains are surely sinking!

 

The elevation data in TOPO 2008 is "off the wall " incorrect as compared to the "old obsolete " version and USGS topos. The older being more correct!

 

In my area of Colorado and every other area I've compared on Garmin's viewer, I see almost NO improvement in detail and a a marked degrading in accuracy. I really think it's a step backwards, except for the shading which is nice. More map symbols and more clutter in some areas.

 

I think I'll pass. It kinda looks like a product with minimal changes to catch attention and try to create a distraction away from some of the user created quality 1:24000 topos. Just my .02.

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Anyone know why the islands of Oahu and Hawai'i are only partially shaded in Garmin's coverage map? Imprecise or limited data?

 

I agree that it looks cool, and I will serious consider it, especially now that I have a Legend Cx...

 

The shading is intended to simulate the shadow cast by the sun shining on one side of a mountain and not the other. If the whole Island was shaded, there would be no contrast.

 

Yes, I know that, but that's not what I was referring to.

 

If you look at the map indicating what parts of the US are covered in the software on Garmin's info page

 

http://www8.garmin.com/cartography/mapSource/topous.jsp

 

the Big Island and Oahu have a crosshatch shading, not the solid blue of the rest of the states and Puerto Rico. Does that mean that those two islands have incomplete coverage or something? The main reason I'm asking is that I will be going back to the Big Island next winter and will most likely have this software by then. Actually, I'll buy it anyway for the improvements closer to home...

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The crosshatch is used in other products to indicate partial coverage. For City Navigator Europe, the key indicates coverage of "Major urban areas with intertown roads".

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The Sky is falling ! The sky is falling !........Well, maybe not, but the mountains are surely sinking!

 

The elevation data in TOPO 2008 is "off the wall " incorrect as compared to the "old obsolete " version and USGS topos. The older being more correct!

 

In my area of Colorado and every other area I've compared on Garmin's viewer, I see almost NO improvement in detail and a a marked degrading in accuracy. I really think it's a step backwards, except for the shading which is nice. More map symbols and more clutter in some areas.

 

I think I'll pass. It kinda looks like a product with minimal changes to catch attention and try to create a distraction away from some of the user created quality 1:24000 topos. Just my .02.

 

I think they're using SRTM data for elevation now, which is a pretty big step down in quality from the NED data that they should be using.

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I think they're using SRTM data for elevation now, which is a pretty big step down in quality from the NED data that they should be using.

 

The "old original version" (Alaska Hawaii,East West ver 2.00 & 3.00 Garmin Corp 1995-1999) is much more accurate on elevations. Some elevations old/new are different by several HUNDRED feet. Several of the 54 Colorado "Fourteeners" are now shown to be less that 14.000 ft elevation.

Any one that has the older version, go to Garmin's site and use the viewer to zoom in on the new 2008 ver and do some direct comparison of a specific area in your old ver vs new in the same area.

 

I started with the sample screen shot of Yosimite NP and noticed elevation differences. Then moved back into Colo. to areas I was more familiar with. Information was just as incorrect in both areas.

 

With elevation data being that incorrect, wouldn't that also make the new "elevation profile" capability absolutely worthless? That's a new feature that's advertised as an "improvement"......I don't think so.....

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Interesting with the apparent new contour elevation observations. I'm in upstate NY and compared some peaks in the Adirondacks I'm familiar with. I do see some slight, meaning up to 50 feet if there was any, discrepancies by comparing my old US Topo East 1:100K with the new US Topo 2008 map viewer data. Some of those I've checked are a bit lower, if any change at all, looking at the 2008 version. I wonder what Garmin's explanation will be? If this elevation data is consistently lower, as if there is a new vertical datum being used, profiles would be proportionate and just fine, correct? For me the improvement in detail in this map set is worth it, regardless.

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I think they're using SRTM data for elevation now, which is a pretty big step down in quality from the NED data that they should be using.

 

The "old original version" (Alaska Hawaii,East West ver 2.00 & 3.00 Garmin Corp 1995-1999) is much more accurate on elevations. Some elevations old/new are different by several HUNDRED feet. Several of the 54 Colorado "Fourteeners" are now shown to be less that 14.000 ft elevation.

Any one that has the older version, go to Garmin's site and use the viewer to zoom in on the new 2008 ver and do some direct comparison of a specific area in your old ver vs new in the same area.

 

I started with the sample screen shot of Yosimite NP and noticed elevation differences. Then moved back into Colo. to areas I was more familiar with. Information was just as incorrect in both areas.

 

With elevation data being that incorrect, wouldn't that also make the new "elevation profile" capability absolutely worthless? That's a new feature that's advertised as an "improvement"......I don't think so.....

 

Interesting...

 

After your first post, I went and checked the elevations of several spots in New Mexico where I go, and it was showing between 20 and 50 feet different (usually lower) than the old Topo. I hadn't thought about the elevations being different.

 

Just curious, what is SRTM Data and where is it derived from? What is NED data and where is it derived from. What makes the USGS topos more accurate than the SRTM data that these maps are apparently derived from? What makes Garmins old maps more accurate than these? I am not questioning anyones' posts, I really want to know. I might rethink my purchase...

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May be these new maps are digitalized in Chinese or Indian software shops and as they don't know what feet or miles are, they screwed them up :sunsure:

 

Or considering Al Gore's predictions about global warming, they already made the correction as to the future ocean levels ? :D

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May be these new maps are digitalized in Chinese or Indian software shops and as they don't know what feet or miles are, they screwed them up :lol:

 

Or considering Al Gore's predictions about global warming, they already made the correction as to the future ocean levels ? :sunsure:

 

We do use meter and 220v in most of the world. Mayby its time for US to change :D

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I randomly checked elevations of eight different Colorado"Fourteeners"

and found differences of 1 ft to 88 ft. Three of the eight are now no longer over 14,000.

 

Also randomly checked several of the minor obscure mountain roads. New version is even less accurate than old ver was. (old wasn't anything to write home about)

 

I was genuinely excited about the new version, but the more features/items I check , the less I like it.

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Just curious, what is SRTM Data and where is it derived from? What is NED data and where is it derived from. What makes the USGS topos more accurate than the SRTM data that these maps are apparently derived from? What makes Garmins old maps more accurate than these? I am not questioning anyones' posts, I really want to know. I might rethink my purchase...

 

SRTM is the Shuttle Radar Topography Mission. It used radar to obtain elevation data for most of the Earth. NED is the National Elevation Dataset, it uses aerial photography mostly.

 

SRTM is great in areas where there wasn't any other elevation data, but in the US the NED maps are much higher quality.

 

Here's two screenshots comparing 1/3" NED and 1" SRTM data:

 

nedba4.jpg

 

srtmyg8.jpg

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yea, i tried to use SRTM to make a 24k map and had to switch back to NED cuz it wasn't accurate enough.

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Garmin Topo will never have satisfactory accuracy until the US once again has the resources to produce 24K data. I think I'll hold off in this lifetime.

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Is there an update as to when it will be released. I preordered mine at tigergps. :D:D

 

I did too. And can't wait!!

 

I new to the GPS world, and right now have NO maps other then the completely worthless basemap

that comes with the unit.

 

So needless to say, can't wait for a box to get to my door with tigergps on it.. o yea.. will be a good day for sure.

 

I keep looking at garmin's site to see if there is a little red order button. and so far, no cigar.

 

--danny

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Is there an update as to when it will be released. I preordered mine at tigergps. :D:D

 

Just got off the phone with TigerGPS - they say it will ship next week.

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Is there an update as to when it will be released. I preordered mine at tigergps. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

Just got off the phone with TigerGPS - they say it will ship next week.

 

The first one to recieve their copy, please make a post when it arrives.

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Just got off the phone with Garmin Tech. Support asking what the map segment limit is on the new H Series Etrexs coming out; Tech Support Rep. said that as of today it is still 2,025 but it possibly may be increased with a firm ware update in the future, as of now he hasn't received any news of it being increased, though.

 

Also questioned the number of Map Segments in the new 2008 Topo soon to be released. The Tech Support Rep. had a copy of it that he pulled up the map segments for just the Continental U.S. and it showed 5,100. The 2008 Topo is now on 1 DVD as compared to 3 previously.

 

Why can't garmin use bigger segments or increase the 2025 segment limit?

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I suspect they are keeping the the topo map segments small to support the fixed memory mapping units. Larger segments = less flexability on a receiver that has only 24MB (or less) internal memory. It would be nice if they released two versions (one with larger segments), but I doubt there is enough interest to justify the expense. After all, how many of us NEED more than a few state's worth of topo loaded at any one time.

 

As for the 2,025 hard limit, I've heard speculation that it results from having too little internal memory to hold the index file that is created when the receiver first compiles the transfered maps. If that is the case, I wouldn't expect a fix anytime soon.

Edited by Glenn W

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I suspect they are keeping the the topo map segments small to support the fixed memory mapping units. Larger segments = less flexability on a receiver that has only 24MB (or less) internal memory. It would be nice if they released two versions (one with larger segments), but I doubt there is enough interest to justify the expense. After all, how many of us NEED more than a few state's worth of topo loaded at any one time.

 

As for the 2,025 hard limit, I've heard speculation that it results from having too little internal memory to hold the index file that is created when the receiver first compiles the transfered maps. If that is the case, I wouldn't expect a fix anytime soon.

 

I new to gps's and this topo will be my very first GPS map. I got the 76CSX. When the new version of City Navigator NT

is released this fall, I will be getting that one also.

 

Just curious (I know i'll find out more when i get them). How much of each can i fit with the standard 128 mb card that comes with my GPS. And how much can i fit with the 2 gig one i will be getting?

 

Like, could i put the east coast of both maps on the 2 gig? and will the 128 mb card be pretty useless? or can i use it till i get the city one? maybe put 2 states of topo's on it?

 

Limited map segments needs also figured in, as a map is useless sitting on my card if i can't access it.

 

Anyway, no biggie as i'll play with it when my map comes..Just curious as heck... Can't wait!!

 

--danny

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...how much can i fit with the 2 gig one i will be getting?

 

Like, could i put the east coast of both maps on the 2 gig? and will the 128 mb card be pretty useless? or can i use it till i get the city one? maybe put 2 states of topo's on it?

 

--danny

 

CityNav NT (all 50 US states, Canada, and Puerto Rico) takes up 63 segments and about 950 MB

 

US Topo (all states east of the Mississippi) takes up about 1970 segments and about 470 MB.

 

So your 2GB card can hold all North American roads, and most of US topo maps east of the Mississippi.

 

As for the 128 MB card, I suggest you keep it for experimenting. I've used my 64 MB card to test custom topo maps I compiled using goverment data and several third party freeware packages.

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Garmin Topo will never have satisfactory accuracy until the US once again has the resources to produce 24K data.

 

I'm not sure if this is necessarily true. The USGS is definitely moving away from the older 7.5 min topo quads and moving towards seamless data. If anything, with the availability of 1:4,800 DOQs, I think there is a push for higher resolution data in general.

 

The elevation data is available to make high resolution contour maps for the entire continental US at a resolution of at least 1 arc second, and thanks to E911 implementation, many states have 1/3 and 1/9 arc second DEMs on their GIS clearinghouses (I also know of several counties which also have LIDAR coverage). Many states also have hydrologic, transportation, and many other vector datasets available for free of charge.

 

An earlier poster mentioned that that the map source contours are derived from SRTM data. If I recall correctly, the SRTM DEM is available at 1 arc second or about 30 m resolution. If this is true, I'm not sure why the MapSource contours are at 150 ft intervals. I suspect they're trying to balance storage capacity, screen resolution, and performance of GPS units against maximizing the number of contours.

 

I've been very happy with my older version of MapSource and find the 1:100,000 resolution more than adequate (I'm not sure if there is really any reason to upgrade to 2008). If anything, I'd like to see better integration of personal GPS units with GIS packages to allow the creation of our own basemaps.

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...how much can i fit with the 2 gig one i will be getting?

 

Like, could i put the east coast of both maps on the 2 gig? and will the 128 mb card be pretty useless? or can i use it till i get the city one? maybe put 2 states of topo's on it?

 

--danny

 

CityNav NT (all 50 US states, Canada, and Puerto Rico) takes up 63 segments and about 950 MB

 

US Topo (all states east of the Mississippi) takes up about 1970 segments and about 470 MB.

 

So your 2GB card can hold all North American roads, and most of US topo maps east of the Mississippi.

 

As for the 128 MB card, I suggest you keep it for experimenting. I've used my 64 MB card to test custom topo maps I compiled using goverment data and several third party freeware packages.

 

I tried to fill my 2GB card up with maps and i got to a point where i could not put any more maps and it still had plenty of space left on the card, over 1GB. I have Garmin 76CSx. maybe i am doing something wrong?

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