(ODS) The One Degree of Separation Project

[+ZSandmann]

Snoogans, seriously. Shut the hell up for awhile. You supposedly start this thread to solicit opinions about your ongoing project. You are doing yourself no favors by jumping on each and every post that does not paint your ODiouS caches in the best possible light. If you really want folks' responses, then let them respond already. This thread would be half as long as it is currently if you would accept criticism gracefully rather than try and argue with each and every post by each and every person with a contrary position. If you just want a suck-up fest where posting is limited to only those who think your film canisters are the best thing since global positioning satellites, then go start a thread specifically for that purpose. I promise to stay out of it. I'll also stay out of any threads created solely for mindlessly bashing your project.

 

This is the MOST out of line comment I have read in these forums in so long... Every other person that has debated the merits of this project I have felt was mostly civil in their responses, even if I don't agree with every one of them. That's the beauty of it, we don't have to agree and yet I can still take their POV and apply it to my own thinking. Hopefully they might do the same. But you have turned it into a verbal "FightClub" as you say. Shame, shame on you!

[+Snoogans]

In parting, my posts to this thread, as I have time before I depart for GW5, will mostly be to accentuate the positive of the One Degree of Separation Project from ODS cache galleries and ODS cache logs. I hope those on my side of the fence will follow suit. I'm bettin' the positives outweigh the negatives:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ODS Cache Gallery

 

 

Just a friendly REMINDER since we're on page 4 now.

Edited May 22, 2007 by Snoogans

[+sbell111]

True, it's not the kind of cache project that I personally would want to see spread in my state. I'm also very confident in saying that this would be/is the consensus among cachers here. It was not "my own" ODS but a vacation cacher that managed to pretty much insult everyone who geocaches in the entire state before archiving the cache. ...

Based on the animosity you have shown in your posts toward anyone who disagrees with you regarding caches hidden in your state, I suspect that the emails that she received excuse her for her remarks.

[+Snoogans]

True, it's not the kind of cache project that I personally would want to see spread in my state. I'm also very confident in saying that this would be/is the consensus among cachers here. It was not "my own" ODS but a vacation cacher that managed to pretty much insult everyone who geocaches in the entire state before archiving the cache. ...

Based on the animosity you have shown in your posts toward anyone who disagrees with you regarding caches hidden in your state, I suspect that the emails that she received excuse her for her remarks.

 

 

It's called a Parent-Child response. When being overtly parental to an adult it evokes a childlike response..... From the GREAT book, "Games People Play." My bad for provoking Yumi.

 

 

Edited May 22, 2007 by Snoogans

[+sbell111]

... It is no secret that a majority of the caching community doesn't like micros. ...

Is the research that you used to come to that conclusion a secret?

 

In my opinion, the actions of the community make it clear that the majority of cachers either like micros or have little enough opinion about them that they continue to hide and find them.

[vtmtnman]

... It is no secret that a majority of the caching community doesn't like micros. ...

Is the research that you used to come to that conclusion a secret?

 

In my opinion, the actions of the community make it clear that the majority of cachers either like micros or have little enough opinion about them that they continue to hide and find them.

From cachers I know,they like caches.All of them.They just enjoy finding them.In fact I didn't learn so many hated micros till I came to the forums.Only here have I ever heard Micro spew,lame micro,LPC and other 'boons' to Geocaching.

 

Go figure,my assesment of the forums and my buddy's were spot on.

[+sbell111]

I would like to congratulate Snoogans on the success of the project. The magnitude of it is quite impressive.

 

I find it surprising that people are getting so upset by the project, given that it represents an insignificant percentage of caches placed. Personally, I have only encountered one ODS cache. I DNFed it.

[+TrailGators]

I have encountered many ODiouS caches, but so far none of them were not part of this project....

[+sbell111]

I have encountered many ODiouS caches, but so far none of them were not part of this project....

Ignoring your snarky use of 'ODiuS' which is clearly your way to spoil for a fight, what do you mean 'so far none of them were not part of this project'? From the double negative, are we supposed to get that all were part of the project or were you just being off-topic?

[+Snoogans]

I have encountered many ODiouS caches, but so far none of them were not part of this project....

 

 

Please qualify your statement. How have you encountered a cache in this project? You have no ODS cache finds in your profile. Or did you not realize what you were saying when you chose those words. Arguespew?

Edited May 22, 2007 by Snoogans

[+Googling Hrpty Hrrs]

As soon as someone sees the words 'film' and 'canister',the micro switch gets turned on in their head and thats that.

 

No. You don't get it and that's okay. You've illustrated your blind hatred of micros quite well.

 

This is the tired old argument of people that want to preach that their way is the best way.

 

The fact that the regular Complainers continue to complain just as loudly in the face of this new and clever theme disproves the very integrity of the “we’re only asking for a little more creativity” argument.

 

As far as I can tell, when some people decide that something in the geocaching universe doesn't fit neatly with their vision of the game, they try to tear it apart. It's as if they believe that any disagreement makes their position irrelevent.

 

Glad you felt the need to come into this thread and slam his project.

 

The project is out there geocaching and it's still growing by the hour regardless of the negative comments on this thread. Ummmm, nanners.

 

Hijacking another thread with the "micro = lame" argument?

 

Like most threads that devolve into a "lame micro conversation", the posts (with exceptions) can be divided into two categories:

 

1.) Those that bash the cache type that they don't like.

 

2.) Those that bash the people that complain about those cache types.

 

Why can't the #2 folks keep the conversation on the caches instead of running down the cachers that are stating their generic opinion about an object? If someone complains about film cannisters as a container, why not explain how it can be an effective container in the right circumstances, (as sbell111 has) instead of tearing up the person who stated their opinion?

 

I find the attacks on cacher's free speech much worse than the attacks on cache types. I'll defend a person way before I will an inanimate object.

 

There has been some good posts (like Houston Control and Texas Dreamweaver) that make good points about the positive aspects of the project. It's a shame so many of the posts devolve into bashing the folks with varying opinions.

 

The following statement exemplifies what I'm talking about. Some of us don't like leaky film cannisters under lamp skirts. But others don't like us. I wish the discussion, and hatred, could focus on the objects, not the people.

 

I also intensely dislike people who hate anything.

Edited May 22, 2007 by Googling Hrpty Hrrs

[+Team GPSaxophone]

I've met Snoogans. There, one degree of separation and I didn't even have to find one of the 13,000+ caches that were part of this experiment

 

 

Hahahaha! GOTCHA!

Yes I have found one, but I didn't have to to have one degree of separation, since I met you long before you dreamed up this idea

[+TrailGators]

I have encountered many ODiouS caches, but so far none of them were not part of this project....

Please qualify your statement. How have you encountered a cache in this project? You have no ODS cache finds in your profile. Or did you not realize what you were saying when you chose those words. Arguespew?

C'mon dude, I was joking around. It was play on words humor, hence the little winky dude at the end of it. Anyhow, I thought you'd like to hear that I haven't found any poor ODS caches so far. I thought that was good news for you. But since you insist, I can rephase that to say that I haven't found any poor ODS caches because I haven't found any ODS caches. Now does that sound better? I really didn't want to say it like that, but I really don't want to argue....

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I like the project and distributed a number of the pod caches for folks here in Alabama to hide.

 

The resulting hidden seed caches that I have found have been at least as good as the average cache, but that's really not relevant... Snoogans gave a great number of caches to this community, but he is in no way responsible for how they hid them - if they were hidden poorly then it's the hider's problem.

 

This is sorta like saying don't shop at Wal-Mart because they have given thousands of film cans to cachers and are obviously out to destroy our game!

Edited May 22, 2007 by TheAlabamaRambler

[vtmtnman]

As soon as someone sees the words 'film' and 'canister',the micro switch gets turned on in their head and thats that.

 

No. You don't get it and that's okay. You've illustrated your blind hatred of micros quite well.

 

This is the tired old argument of people that want to preach that their way is the best way.

 

The fact that the regular Complainers continue to complain just as loudly in the face of this new and clever theme disproves the very integrity of the “we’re only asking for a little more creativity” argument.

 

As far as I can tell, when some people decide that something in the geocaching universe doesn't fit neatly with their vision of the game, they try to tear it apart. It's as if they believe that any disagreement makes their position irrelevent.

 

Glad you felt the need to come into this thread and slam his project.

 

The project is out there geocaching and it's still growing by the hour regardless of the negative comments on this thread. Ummmm, nanners.

 

Hijacking another thread with the "micro = lame" argument?

 

Like most threads that devolve into a "lame micro conversation", the posts (with exceptions) can be divided into two categories:

 

1.) Those that bash the cache type that they don't like.

 

2.) Those that bash the people that complain about those cache types.

 

Why can't the #2 folks keep the conversation on the caches instead of running down the cachers that are stating their generic opinion about an object? If someone complains about film cannisters as a container, why not explain how it can be an effective container in the right circumstances, (as sbell111 has) instead of tearing up the person who stated their opinion?

 

I find the attacks on cacher's free speech much worse than the attacks on cache types. I'll defend a person way before I will an inanimate object.

 

There has been some good posts (like Houston Control and Texas Dreamweaver) that make good points about the positive aspects of the project. It's a shame so many of the posts devolve into bashing the folks with varying opinions.

 

The following statement exemplifies what I'm talking about. Some of us don't like leaky film cannisters under lamp skirts. But others don't like us. I wish the discussion, and hatred, could focus on the objects, not the people.

 

I also intensely dislike people who hate anything.

All I'm left with at the end of this is this thread.

 

Since I saw on of my quotes referenced I'll bite.I don't particulary see how I'm bashing someone.All I did was state what USUALLY happens.If you didn't care for my remark,thats your decision.Some of thse remarks about snoog's project have been downright rude.

[+Googling Hrpty Hrrs]

All I'm left with at the end of this is this thread.

 

Don't know what that means! (followed link but still don't see corollation)

 

Since I saw on of my quotes referenced I'll bite.I don't particulary see how I'm bashing someone.All I did was state what USUALLY happens.If you didn't care for my remark,thats your decision.

 

Some of thse remarks about snoog's project have been downright rude.

 

All I'm saying is that in my opinion bashing snoog's project or cache types in general is not as heinous as bashing people. I don't see how you can be rude to an inanimate object. You can be rude to people.

 

Snoogs is a big boy and quite articulate. Defend the merits of his project itself. There's no need to attack it's detractors.

 

We are not our caches. As Emerson said, " I am not a farmer. I am a man who farms."

Edited May 22, 2007 by Googling Hrpty Hrrs

[+Team GeoBlast]

As soon as someone sees the words 'film' and 'canister',the micro switch gets turned on in their head and thats that.

 

No. You don't get it and that's okay. You've illustrated your blind hatred of micros quite well.

 

This is the tired old argument of people that want to preach that their way is the best way.

 

The fact that the regular Complainers continue to complain just as loudly in the face of this new and clever theme disproves the very integrity of the “we’re only asking for a little more creativity” argument.

 

As far as I can tell, when some people decide that something in the geocaching universe doesn't fit neatly with their vision of the game, they try to tear it apart. It's as if they believe that any disagreement makes their position irrelevent.

 

Glad you felt the need to come into this thread and slam his project.

 

The project is out there geocaching and it's still growing by the hour regardless of the negative comments on this thread. Ummmm, nanners.

 

Hijacking another thread with the "micro = lame" argument?

 

Like most threads that devolve into a "lame micro conversation", the posts (with exceptions) can be divided into two categories:

 

1.) Those that bash the cache type that they don't like.

 

2.) Those that bash the people that complain about those cache types.

 

Why can't the #2 folks keep the conversation on the caches instead of running down the cachers that are stating their generic opinion about an object? If someone complains about film cannisters as a container, why not explain how it can be an effective container in the right circumstances, (as sbell111 has) instead of tearing up the person who stated their opinion?

 

I find the attacks on cacher's free speech much worse than the attacks on cache types. I'll defend a person way before I will an inanimate object.

 

There has been some good posts (like Houston Control and Texas Dreamweaver) that make good points about the positive aspects of the project. It's a shame so many of the posts devolve into bashing the folks with varying opinions.

 

The following statement exemplifies what I'm talking about. Some of us don't like leaky film cannisters under lamp skirts. But others don't like us. I wish the discussion, and hatred, could focus on the objects, not the people.

 

I also intensely dislike people who hate anything.

 

I've come to this conclusion.

 

There's really not a very good argument when someone tries to defend a film canister as a micro cache container or a lamp post for a place to hide a film canister. So the "I also intensely dislike people who hate anything" crowd never spend much time doing that. Instead, they attack -the person- that doesn't like them on the most personal level they can get away with. This is done in hopes of getting the thread closed down and annoys pretty much everyone reading it. It happened here in this thread and this forum is full of many other examples of this identical phenomenon.

 

It's also important to note that this tactic is not even remotely effective unless they take your position on film canisters and twist around and restate your position claiming that you hate "everything about micros" which is almost never the case. It's really very predictable.

[vtmtnman]

All I'm left with at the end of this is this thread.

 

Don't know what that means!

 

Since I saw on of my quotes referenced I'll bite.I don't particulary see how I'm bashing someone.All I did was state what USUALLY happens.If you didn't care for my remark,thats your decision.

 

Some of thse remarks about snoog's project have been downright rude.

 

All I'm saying is that in my opinion bashing snoog's project or cache types in general is not as heinous as bashing people. I don't see how you can be rude to an inanimate object. You can be rude to people.

 

Snoogs is a big boy and quite articulate. Defend the merits of his project itself. There's no need to attack it's detractors.

 

We are not our caches. As Emerson said, " I am not a farmer. I am a man who farms."

The link is in bold bud.

 

I agree with you.You can't be rude to an inanimate object.I wasn't trying to be rude to anyone.All of my comments were general,and not directed towards any one individual with exception to Snoog and yourself.The guy has been taking alot of flak in here because he's being accused by some that can't see past film canister,or don't care about the bigger sceme of his project.

 

I disagree(to an extent).Caches can be like signature items sometimes.Some folks hide micros,some folks hide ammocans.High terrain locations,or urban locations.And some folks have reputations off these hides.Perhaphs thats what Snoog wanted to do here.Or maybe it was a big project everyone could enjoy,reguardless of those who disagree with the project.

[+Team GeoBlast]

True, it's not the kind of cache project that I personally would want to see spread in my state. I'm also very confident in saying that this would be/is the consensus among cachers here. It was not "my own" ODS but a vacation cacher that managed to pretty much insult everyone who geocaches in the entire state before archiving the cache. ...

Based on the animosity you have shown in your posts toward anyone who disagrees with you regarding caches hidden in your state, I suspect that the emails that she received excuse her for her remarks.

 

snip

Edited May 23, 2007 by Team GeoBlast

[+Team GeoBlast]

The detractors are few and far between elswhere than in THIS forum.

 

The forums are just a microcosm of the larger community. There are many detractors outside this forum.

 

Without exception, the geocachers whom I spoke with that knew about this were less than enthusiastic (I'm being nice).

 

I did manage to come up with one positive in the way this project was administered. In the absence of an icon that indicates it is a film canister, LPC, or a dumpster hide, you CAN search for and filter out "ODS" in GSAK.

Glad you felt the need to come into this thread and slam his project.

 

Is this the point where you try to show that it's a bad idea by doing your own ODS project in Hawaii and it not working???

 

snip

Edited May 23, 2007 by Team GeoBlast

[+sbell111]

All I'm saying is that in my opinion bashing snoog's project or cache types in general is not as heinous as bashing people. I don't see how you can be rude to an inanimate object. You can be rude to people.

 

Snoogs is a big boy and quite articulate. Defend the merits of his project itself. There's no need to attack it's detractors.

 

We are not our caches. As Emerson said, " I am not a farmer. I am a man who farms."

Perhaps it should be noted that some people bash the ideas of others in such a way that it is quite difficult for it to be not taken personally. Edited May 22, 2007 by sbell111

[+eagletrek]

ODS: Prime: What's the big deal???? Frankly, who cares????

[+sbell111]

I've come to this conclusion.

 

There's really not a very good argument when someone tries to defend a film canister as a micro cache container or a lamp post for a place to hide a film canister. So the "I also intensely dislike people who hate anything" crowd never spend much time doing that. Instead, they attack -the person- that doesn't like them on the most personal level they can get away with. This is done in hopes of getting the thread closed down and annoys pretty much everyone reading it. It happened here in this thread and this forum is full of many other examples of this identical phenomenon.

 

It's also important to note that this tactic is not even remotely effective unless they take your position on film canisters and twist around and restate your position claiming that you hate "everything about micros" which is almost never the case. It's really very predictable.

I disagree with your conclusion. I've found and enjoyed many LPCs and caches hidden using film cans. In there defense, I've enjoyed lots of them and so do many, many other cachers. In fact, did you realize that there are a number of threads in these very forums that state that film cans are pretty good cache containers and posts that document people enjoying LPCs.

 

People like them. As far as I'm concerned, that's the only defense needed.

 

Please find the personal attack in this post.

[+sbell111]

True, it's not the kind of cache project that I personally would want to see spread in my state. I'm also very confident in saying that this would be/is the consensus among cachers here. It was not "my own" ODS but a vacation cacher that managed to pretty much insult everyone who geocaches in the entire state before archiving the cache. ...

Based on the animosity you have shown in your posts toward anyone who disagrees with you regarding caches hidden in your state, I suspect that the emails that she received excuse her for her remarks.

 

Example #1

Don't you love it when people call you rude because you point out their rudeness?

[+Team GeoBlast]

True, it's not the kind of cache project that I personally would want to see spread in my state. I'm also very confident in saying that this would be/is the consensus among cachers here. It was not "my own" ODS but a vacation cacher that managed to pretty much insult everyone who geocaches in the entire state before archiving the cache. ...

Based on the animosity you have shown in your posts toward anyone who disagrees with you regarding caches hidden in your state, I suspect that the emails that she received excuse her for her remarks.

 

Just can't help yourself can you?

Edited May 23, 2007 by Team GeoBlast

[+Team GeoBlast]

I've come to this conclusion.

 

There's really not a very good argument when someone tries to defend a film canister as a micro cache container or a lamp post for a place to hide a film canister. So the "I also intensely dislike people who hate anything" crowd never spend much time doing that. Instead, they attack -the person- that doesn't like them on the most personal level they can get away with. This is done in hopes of getting the thread closed down and annoys pretty much everyone reading it. It happened here in this thread and this forum is full of many other examples of this identical phenomenon.

 

It's also important to note that this tactic is not even remotely effective unless they take your position on film canisters and twist around and restate your position claiming that you hate "everything about micros" which is almost never the case. It's really very predictable.

I disagree with your conclusion. I've found and enjoyed many LPCs and caches hidden using film cans. In there defense, I've enjoyed lots of them and so do many, many other cachers. In fact, did you realize that there are a number of threads in these very forums that state that film cans are pretty good cache containers and posts that document people enjoying LPCs.

 

People like them. As far as I'm concerned, that's the only defense needed.

 

Please find the personal attack in this post.

 

I take exactly zero offense to you stating your opinion in this way.

Edited May 23, 2007 by Team GeoBlast

[+Snoogans]

True, it's not the kind of cache project that I personally would want to see spread in my state. I'm also very confident in saying that this would be/is the consensus among cachers here. It was not "my own" ODS but a vacation cacher that managed to pretty much insult everyone who geocaches in the entire state before archiving the cache. ...

Based on the animosity you have shown in your posts toward anyone who disagrees with you regarding caches hidden in your state, I suspect that the emails that she received excuse her for her remarks.

 

Example #1

Don't you love it when people call you rude because you point out their rudeness?

 

 

Okay, so rise above it. Find a nice picture on an ODS cache page and post it. Find a nice log and post it with a link to that cache page. Let the positives oughtweight the negatives if you want to defend THIS side of the fence.

 

 

Here's another REMINDER. Please, don't get this thread locked arguing over minutia. DEMONSTRATE that they are in error judging the project bad by being positive.

Edited May 22, 2007 by Snoogans

[+Snoogans]

True, it's not the kind of cache project that I personally would want to see spread in my state. I'm also very confident in saying that this would be/is the consensus among cachers here. It was not "my own" ODS but a vacation cacher that managed to pretty much insult everyone who geocaches in the entire state before archiving the cache. ...

Based on the animosity you have shown in your posts toward anyone who disagrees with you regarding caches hidden in your state, I suspect that the emails that she received excuse her for her remarks.

 

Example #1

Don't you love it when people call you rude because you point out their rudeness?

 

Just can't help yourself can you? Why not drop the forum manners police thingy.. it's boring. Debate the issue, if you can, don't make the issue other people. If you can't debate the issue, then go do some more research and come back with something worth reading.

 

 

 

 

Do you see this quote:

 

 

Instead, they attack -the person- that doesn't like them on the most personal level they can get away with. This is done in hopes of getting the thread closed down and annoys pretty much everyone reading it. It happened here in this thread and this forum is full of many other examples of this identical phenomenon.

 

 

Guess who that pertains to right now? Please don't get this thread locked. Accentuate the negative all you want about the project, but stop the petty bickering. Please.

[+Team GeoBlast]

All I'm saying is that in my opinion bashing snoog's project or cache types in general is not as heinous as bashing people. I don't see how you can be rude to an inanimate object. You can be rude to people.

 

Snoogs is a big boy and quite articulate. Defend the merits of his project itself. There's no need to attack it's detractors.

 

We are not our caches. As Emerson said, " I am not a farmer. I am a man who farms."

Perhaps it should be noted that some people bash the ideas of others in such a way that it is quite difficult for it to be not taken personally.

 

It's not personal and it is not about you. Why do you insist on making it that way?

Edited May 23, 2007 by Team GeoBlast

[+Snoogans]

All I'm left with at the end of this is this thread.

 

Don't know what that means! (followed link but still don't see corollation)

 

Since I saw on of my quotes referenced I'll bite.I don't particulary see how I'm bashing someone.All I did was state what USUALLY happens.If you didn't care for my remark,thats your decision.

 

Some of thse remarks about snoog's project have been downright rude.

 

All I'm saying is that in my opinion bashing snoog's project or cache types in general is not as heinous as bashing people. I don't see how you can be rude to an inanimate object. You can be rude to people.

 

Snoogs is a big boy and quite articulate. Defend the merits of his project itself. There's no need to attack it's detractors.

We are not our caches. As Emerson said, " I am not a farmer. I am a man who farms."

 

 

YES YES YES! Thank you.

[+Snoogans]

All I'm saying is that in my opinion bashing snoog's project or cache types in general is not as heinous as bashing people. I don't see how you can be rude to an inanimate object. You can be rude to people.

 

Snoogs is a big boy and quite articulate. Defend the merits of his project itself. There's no need to attack it's detractors.

 

We are not our caches. As Emerson said, " I am not a farmer. I am a man who farms."

Perhaps it should be noted that some people bash the ideas of others in such a way that it is quite difficult for it to be not taken personally.

 

It is so very odd that you find a way to take my opinion personally. Nothing in any of my posts were directed towards you. I never give you a second thought until you attack me. It's not personal and it is not about you. Why do you insist on making it that way?

 

 

SB111, Don't answer.

 

 

TGB, YOU.... Stop it.

Edited May 22, 2007 by Snoogans

[+sbell111]

snip

Edited May 22, 2007 by sbell111

[+Team GeoBlast]

True, it's not the kind of cache project that I personally would want to see spread in my state. I'm also very confident in saying that this would be/is the consensus among cachers here. It was not "my own" ODS but a vacation cacher that managed to pretty much insult everyone who geocaches in the entire state before archiving the cache. ...

Based on the animosity you have shown in your posts toward anyone who disagrees with you regarding caches hidden in your state, I suspect that the emails that she received excuse her for her remarks.

 

Example #1

Don't you love it when people call you rude because you point out their rudeness?

 

 

Okay, so rise above it. Find a nice picture on an ODS cache page and post it. Find a nice log and post it with a like to that cache page. Let the positives oughtweight the negatives if you want to defend THIS side of the fence.

 

 

Here's another REMINDER. Please, don't get this thread locked arguing over minutia. DEMONSTRATE that they are in error judging the project bad by being positive.

 

Snoogans, since you are checking out. Would you please summarize the positives that have been presented on the ODS project in this thread? I am not trying to create busy work for you but it would be nice have them all in one place and get the conversation back on topic.

 

Have a nice road trip, post some more ODS photos when you get them.

[+Snoogans]

There has been some good posts (like Houston Control and Texas Dreamweaver) that make good points about the positive aspects of the project. It's a shame so many of the posts devolve into bashing the folks with varying opinions.

 

 

Larry and Gary (HC & TDW) are friends of mine. They were the only two who would brave this forum for lil ol me. SO FAR.

 

 

I am one of just a few cachers from the entire state of Texas that will brave this forum regularly if not daily. You can count the folks from MY local area on one hand with a couple fingers missing.

 

 

I had dinner with Gary and 17 other geocachers from the Houston area last night. It was a local forum get together to send folks off to GW5 and not a posted event. We called it, "No smiley. Just smiles."

 

 

The topic of discussion turned to this thread for about 15 minutes and all, Gary included, expressed their distaste for some of the behavior on this thread and basically in this forum in general.

 

 

You might see some more folks brave the flames, but they would be doing it for me. They could care less what folks think is wrong with the project and have no desire to convince them otherwise. Their experience with the project is all that matters and nothing said on this thread will turn it into a negative.

[Clan Riffster]

I can't nor can the project be rationally held accountable for individual hide quality. You can accentuate the negative by attacking the containers, but I've proven that efforts were made to release a cache that is worthy of being hidden. These types of containers were in use BEFORE this project was launched.

Dude...That's your argument? These containers were in use before, so they must be OK? Heck, for phase two, might I suggest using Chinese food containers? They've been used before. Must be OK, right? I bet you could pick them up pretty cheap, since quantity over quality seems to be the recurring theme here. I contend, Sir, that you can and should be held accountable for the overall quality of each of these caches, in that you deliberately supplied an inferior product. A cache is judged on many things, including the container. If the container is junk, it loses points before it ever hits the woods, or the guardrail. You cannot be judged for the location picked by the hider, but you can be judged for what gets hidden at that location, since you supplied it.

 

As I've stated many times, every effort was made to ensure these caches were fit to be hidden.

Sorry Brother, but these containers were never fit for anything other than holding film and coffee, ammo cans excluded. This has nothing to do with aesthetics. There is no amount of ketchup that can make rotten buzzard livers palatable. All the bleach and all the paint on the planet won't raise a carpy container up to the level of a suitable container. It's like putting high dollar rims on a Yugo. It's still a Yugo.

 

What has become of peoples individual accountability?

Good question. At what point does The Snoogster take responsibility for his deliberate choice to utilize carpy containers for a project predicted to spread to 1000 caches? My guess is never.

 

I have encountered many ODiouS caches, but so far none of them were not part of this project....

I too, have found many an ODiouS cache in my travels.

(No, Snoog, not an ODS cache. There's a difference.....or is there....?)

 

I've come to this conclusion.

 

There's really not a very good argument when someone tries to defend a film canister as a micro cache container or a lamp post for a place to hide a film canister. So the "I also intensely dislike people who hate anything" crowd never spend much time doing that. Instead, they attack -the person- that doesn't like them on the most personal level they can get away with. This is done in hopes of getting the thread closed down and annoys pretty much everyone reading it. It happened here in this thread and this forum is full of many other examples of this identical phenomenon.

 

It's also important to note that this tactic is not even remotely effective unless they take your position on film canisters and twist around and restate your position claiming that you hate "everything about micros" which is almost never the case. It's really very predictable.

Yup. Sad but true. Regardless of the sheer number of times I've stated my love for cleverly hidden micros, I've been called a "micro-hater" more times than I can count. When I mention my disdain for lame ODiouS hides of any size, and my observation that the majority of the hides lacking any semblance of creativity just happen to be film canisters, I am automatically a "micro-hater". The facts are irrelevant to the Carpy Cache Defenders Continuum.

 

You might see some more folks brave the flames, but they would be doing it for me.

You recruited some help. Bully for you.

[+Dew Crew]

Ok, so I've waited to post, but I've been following every post made. I think the ODS project is kind of a neat idea.

 

Cache Logs

February 17 by huggy_d1 (3522 found)

Solved the puzzle earlier in the week and just had to come find it. Thanks for the view and the smiles. Found caches like this before, so it was not too unexpected. The puzzle was quite the good one!

huggy_d1

Lynchburg, VA

 

 

February 17 by DeepSeaGoddess (2425 found)

Very cool puzzle once I figured out how I should approach solving it! The cache hide is awesome as well. TFTC!

 

January 2 by JasonAndCarol (80 found)

I figured out how to find it. A great puzzle. Now I have my first puzzle find. TFTC

Jason of

JasonAndCarol

 

 

December 29, 2006 by JasonAndCarol (80 found)

I couldn't find anything that looked like the keyword.

Jason of

JasonAndCarol

 

 

November 19, 2006 by Great Scott! (2896 found)

The things we'll do to sign a sheet of paper. Good one! Thanks for the cache and view!~~GS!

 

Looks like they had fun doing this cache...

[+Kbdank71]

 

I contend, Sir, that you can and should be held accountable for the overall quality of each of these caches, in that you deliberately supplied an inferior product. A cache is judged on many things, including the container. If the container is junk, it loses points before it ever hits the woods, or the guardrail. You cannot be judged for the location picked by the hider, but you can be judged for what gets hidden at that location, since you supplied it.

 

Hear hear!! I can't count the amount of times I've discovered a cache just to think, "Dang, I came all this way to find a particularly snazzy container, but man, what a piece of junk this one is. Totally ruined my day."

[CoyoteRed]

*THUMP* *THUMP*

 

Is this thing on?

 

Am I not seeing the rebuttal to my assertion the ODS project is inherently flawed in that it can't provide the one degree of separation it purports to provide?

 

Is there a rebuttal I'm not seeing?

[+Snoogans]

*THUMP* *THUMP*

 

Is this thing on?

 

Am I not seeing the rebuttal to my assertion the ODS project is inherently flawed in that it can't provide the one degree of separation it purports to provide?

 

Is there a rebuttal I'm not seeing?

 

 

Just a quick wave to say "Hi."

[+yumitori]

Shame, shame on you!

 

You highlighted the wrong bit.

 

Snoogans, seriously. Shut the hell up for awhile. You supposedly start this thread to solicit opinions about your ongoing project. You are doing yourself no favors by jumping on each and every post that does not paint your ODiouS caches in the best possible light. If you really want folks' responses, then let them respond already. This thread would be half as long as it is currently if you would accept criticism gracefully rather than try and argue with each and every post by each and every person with a contrary position. If you just want a suck-up fest where posting is limited to only those who think your film canisters are the best thing since global positioning satellites, then go start a thread specifically for that purpose. I promise to stay out of it. I'll also stay out of any threads created solely for mindlessly bashing your project.

 

I'm sure that if I ever have unsolicited advice to give you I'll try and phrase it in a manner best suited to get your attention. I doubt I'd need to resort to the 'boot to the head' approach, but then you aren't Snoogans.

 

Meanwhile, if he's offended he knows where to find the moderators.

[+Kealia]

Wow, the egos in this thread (not naming names) has gone from "big" to "epic proportions".

 

I couldn't bother reading through most of the posts as it was like listening to a room full of people who wanted nothing more than to hear themselves talk.

 

I don't unuderstand the whole concept anyway. I'm not sure why anybody would want their name associated to ANY number of caches OF ANY TYPE that they couldn't control.

 

I like where I place my caches.

I like the containers that I use and the experience that I generate for other cachers.

 

I wouldn't want my name associated with a cache out there that I didn't place, or "authorize" to be placed in my name.

 

Continue in your battle. This is a thread that I can't read anymore....

[+Googling Hrpty Hrrs]

Wow, the egos in this thread (not naming names) has gone from "big" to "epic proportions".

 

I couldn't bother reading through most of the posts as it was like listening to a room full of people who wanted nothing more than to hear themselves talk.

 

I don't unuderstand the whole concept anyway. I'm not sure why anybody would want their name associated to ANY number of caches OF ANY TYPE that they couldn't control.

 

I like where I place my caches.

I like the containers that I use and the experience that I generate for other cachers.

 

I wouldn't want my name associated with a cache out there that I didn't place, or "authorize" to be placed in my name.

 

Continue in your battle. This is a thread that I can't read anymore....

 

 

I agree with everything in your post except for the bold part. It's pretty entertaining!

[Mr.Yuck]

Wow, the egos in this thread (not naming names) has gone from "big" to "epic proportions".

 

I thought that already happened last week, when in another thread, he stated that his time is worth $100 an hour. I guess a few hundred dollars was wasted investigating the profiles of several posters to this thread to see whether or not they have personally found an ODiouS cache. Not naming names, of course.

[+Snoogans]

Wow, the egos in this thread (not naming names) has gone from "big" to "epic proportions".

 

I thought that already happened last week, when in another thread, he stated that his time is worth $100 an hour. I guess a few hundred dollars was wasted investigating the profiles of several posters to this thread to see whether or not they have personally found an ODiouS cache. Not naming names, of course.

 

 

Let's put that comment in context.

 

 

Without taking the time to link: I believe I said my free time is worth $100 an hour to ME. Not that I get paid $100 an hour. Which is why I pay people to do things I don't like to do and pick and choose caches that will please my personal aesthetic when I choose to spend my quality time cachin'. Rather than blaming the hider for my lack of ability to enjoy my quality time in a chosen activity.

 

 

My expectation and entitlement needs with geocaching hardly register on the scale compared to some folks on the other side of the fence in this debate.

 

 

I believe I have stated previously in this thread that I have a friggin' HUGE ego. That's hardly a dig to me. Everyone has an ego. Why else would I use (insert ballon inflation sound effect here) in some of my posts. I take your dig and make it my strength. I am, if nothing else, self aware.

 

 

Do you have a comment on the project or was it just a personal shot while you thought I was on the road and unable to respond?

 

 

I don't leave for GW5 until tomorrow night, but my time here is short.

Edited May 23, 2007 by Snoogans

[+sbell111]

I honestly believe that if Snoogans had released 13000 ammo cans into the wild that some people would still complain about them.

 

Some would be hidden in locations that can't support an ammo can and be muggled. One of these would be investigated by the bomb squad because of it's poor location.

 

These people would rail about Snoogan's irresponsibility in releasing ammo cans.

 

(BTW, has anyone noticed how many perfectly dry caches there are in film cans? I've found and owned loads of them. Is it possible that those that rail against film can micros are doing it for some reason other than the one that they are giving. Beats me, but it's something to think about as we continue to read these threads.)

[+sbell111]

Shame, shame on you!

You highlighted the wrong bit.

Snoogans, seriously. Shut the hell up for awhile. ...

I'm sure that if I ever have unsolicited advice to give you I'll try and phrase it in a manner best suited to get your attention. I doubt I'd need to resort to the 'boot to the head' approach, but then you aren't Snoogans.

 

Meanwhile, if he's offended he knows where to find the moderators.

Is it your position that you can blatently violate the forum guidelines as long as Snoogans doesn't report you to the mods? Don't you think that there are many people who might get offended at your 'Shut the hell up' comment?

[Mr.Yuck]

Wow, the egos in this thread (not naming names) has gone from "big" to "epic proportions".

 

I thought that already happened last week, when in another thread, he stated that his time is worth $100 an hour. I guess a few hundred dollars was wasted investigating the profiles of several posters to this thread to see whether or not they have personally found an ODiouS cache. Not naming names, of course.

 

 

Let's put that comment in context.

 

 

Without taking the time to link: I believe I said my free time is worth $100 an hour to ME. Not that I get paid $100 an hour. Which is why I pay people to do things I don't like to do and pick and choose caches that will please my personal aesthetic when I choose to spend my quality time cachin'. Rather than blaming the hider for my lack of ability to enjoy my quality time in a chosen activity.

 

 

My expectation and entitlement needs with geocaching hardly register on the scale compared to some folks on the other side of the fence in this debate.

 

 

I believe I have stated previously in this thread that I have a friggin' HUGE ego. That's hardly a dig to me. Everyone has an ego. Why else would I use (insert ballon inflation sound effect here) in some of my posts. I take your dig and make it my strength. I am, if nothing else, self aware.

 

 

Do you have a comment on the project or was it just a personal shot while you thought I was on the road and unable to respond?

 

 

I don't leave for GW5 until tomorrow night, but my time here is short.

 

 

Meant to be a joke and inject some humor into the thread, rather then a personal shot. Of course I should have known it would go over like a lead balloon around here, I should have known better.

 

Yes, several comments on the project, unfortunately I cannot address them right now. Hopefully, you'll see them, and be able to address them before you leave. Have a great time, and I am most jealous.

 

I'll save you fitty bucks though. I have found no ODS caches. I live about 50 miles from ODS one degree Houston Control and one degree (lordfishman), so I will have comments on them specifically.

 

And I will be in that neck of the woods in September or October, I will definately go out of my way to find them.

[vtmtnman]

I honestly believe that if Snoogans had released 13000 ammo cans into the wild that some people would still complain about them.

 

Some would be hidden in locations that can't support an ammo can and be muggled. One of these would be investigated by the bomb squad because of it's poor location.

 

These people would rail about Snoogan's irresponsibility in releasing ammo cans.

 

(BTW, has anyone noticed how many perfectly dry caches there are in film cans? I've found and owned loads of them. Is it possible that those that rail against film can micros are doing it for some reason other than the one that they are giving. Beats me, but it's something to think about as we continue to read these threads.)

We know at least Riffster wouldn't be...as for the rest,yes.

 

Yes they would.

[vtmtnman]

The White Urkel-

 

 

FOP!!!haha...nice.

[+Snoogans]

Shame, shame on you!

You highlighted the wrong bit.

Snoogans, seriously. Shut the hell up for awhile. ...

I'm sure that if I ever have unsolicited advice to give you I'll try and phrase it in a manner best suited to get your attention. I doubt I'd need to resort to the 'boot to the head' approach, but then you aren't Snoogans.

 

Meanwhile, if he's offended he knows where to find the moderators.

Is it your position that you can blatently violate the forum guidelines as long as Snoogans doesn't report you to the mods? Don't you think that there are many people who might get offended at your 'Shut the hell up' comment?

 

 

Honestly, I provoked Yumi..... Ummmm, After Yumi first provoked me.... I still marvel at that post.

 

 

I can take it. My skin is so thick, it would dull a needle. I've had lot's of training here.... Besides, I take none of this personally.

 

 

I haven't had a 7-Habits course in over 5 years and I just astonished myself on how much the course has stayed with me and changed my life. So much of my posting to this forum is actually right there. I'm no model of practice, but I have remained consistant:

 

 

 

 

THE SEVEN HABITS OF HIGHLY EFFECTIVE PEOPLE

 

Habit 1 -- Be Proactive

 

Principles of Personal Vision

Self-awareness enables us to stand apart and examine the way we see ourselves. It is our map of the basic nature of mankind.

 

 

The Social Mirror

There are three widely accepted theories of determinism:

• Genetic determinism holds that you inherit your personal tendencies and character.
  
• Psychic determinism holds that your upbringing and childhood experiences mold you.
  
• Environmental determinism holds that environmental factors are responsible.
  

Between Stimulus and Response

Frankl, a psychologist in the Freudian tradition, recognized that "between stimulus and response, man has the freedom to choose."

• Imagination -- the ability to create in our minds beyond our present reality.
  
• Conscience -- an inner awareness of right and wrong.
  
• Independent will -- the ability to act based on self-awareness.
  

Proactivity Defined

Proactivity. As human beings we are responsible for our own lives.

 

 

• Reactive people are driven by feelings, circumstances, conditions, the environment.
  
• Proactive people are driven by carefully considered, selected and internalized values.
  

Taking the Initiative

Taking the initiative does not mean being pushy, obnoxious, or aggressive. It does mean recognizing our responsibility to make things happen.

 

 

Circle of Concern/Circle of Influence

Where do you focus your time and energy?

• Proactive people focus their efforts in the Circle of Influence.
  
• Reactive people focus their efforts in the Circle of Concern.
  

Direct, Indirect, and No Control

Problems fall in one of three areas:

• Direct control: problems involving our own behavior.
  
• Indirect control: problems involving the behavior of others.
  
• No control: problems we can do nothing about, e.g., our past.
  

Changing our habits, changing our methods of influence and changing the way we see our no control problems are all within our Circle of Influence.

 

 

Odds and Ends

• Distinguish between have's and be's.
  
• Understand consequences and mistakes.
  
• The ability to make and keep commitments and promises is at the heart of our Circle of Influence.
  

 

Circle of Concern and Circle of Influence

 

Covey describes the habit of being proactive with what he calls the circle of concern and the circle of influence. The circle of concern represents the degree of focus we spend dealing with our concerns such as our health, family, problems at work and security in the post- 9/11 era. The circle of influence represents the degree of focus we place on doing things to influence some of our concerns. By determining the circle in which we spend the majority of our time and energy, we discover our degree of proactivity. Figure 1 illustrates the focus of the reactive person and that of the proactive person.

 

Figure 1: Reactive Focus vs. Proactive Focus

 

The more time and energy people spend brooding or worrying about concerns over which they have no control, or complaining about barriers that they perceive they cannot overcome, the less focus they have to influence those who can make or sponsor change.

 

Reactive people tend to blame, accuse and focus on the weaknesses of others and things over which they have no control. Proactive people learn what things they can do something about, work on them and increase their value. As they do this, they increase their circle of influence.

 

Probably the best expression of the habit of proactivity is Reinhold Niebuhr's famous serenity prayer, abbreviated as: God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

 

Being proactive is the first habit of effectiveness because without it, we cannot develop habits two through seven. Covey says that we can determine whether or not we are proactive by simply listening to our language.

 

 

 

 

As YOU concentrate on your concerns, YOUR influence decreases. ODS: PRIME!'s friends list continues to grow. As does the ODS project.

 

 

Always tryyy to face negativity with a positive attitude. I know it's hard to do sometimes.

 

 

Sincerely, I could have left the Santa crack outta my response to Yumi, but I CHOSE not to. MY BAD.

Edited May 23, 2007 by Snoogans