Please Keep Extraneous Materials out of Caches.

8.4k · May 18, 2007

Oh and for my fuzzy funny fluffy neo pagan name generator how about if I just stick with RK?

Well the Pagan name generator said my name is Ron Jeremy. Now I feel fat. :laughing:

24.7k · May 18, 2007

You know, I should boycot them for getting rid of the Mc D L T. Hot side hot, cold side cold. I liked that one. True it created twice as much waste as anything else...

It didn't agree with you, huh? I have that problem with Taco Bell.

Walked into that one...but I was talking about the container it came in to keep the hot and cold sides separate. Just in case anyone is confused. :laughing:

2.2k · May 18, 2007

Oh and for my fuzzy funny fluffy neo pagan name generator how about if I just stick with RK?

Well the Pagan name generator said my name is Ron Jeremy. Now I feel fat.

There are oh so many comebacks here...but unfortunately, all of them will spike my warning meter! :laughing:

4.7k · May 18, 2007

...what i DON'T like to see in caches are the heavy-handed tracts that tell me that i'm going straight to hell. these are kind of hostile and aggressive and in my opinion, inappropriate.

Given you are willing to speak out strongly on the things that you believe in and have done so in my case at least once...I think that you should just accept that reality is that others believe in things just as strongly and are willing to push just as hard. Less hard actually becase a track is much less invasive than saying "Hey bucko, that's offensive". However I survied it from you, watched my use of the word in the forums and lived.

there's a difference between telling about a belief or even promoting it and going after people to argue it agressively. if you tell me that you hope i'll be saved, i understand it much differently than if you tell me you hate me and hope i go to hell (where i belong) if i am not in alignment with you.

as for "hey, bucko, that's offensive", i hope that i was at least civil about it. i aim to be, but sometimes i'm not the person i hope to be.

May 18, 2007

OK here is my last post on this one. I think everyone is now just picking at each other and trying to be funny. I must admit I have read it for entertainment.

Maybe someone should start a topic on a subject like:

"Do you read forums because they are funny" or

"Are geocaching forums more to see who is the wittiest or for information on geocaching"

I admit, I am guilty of using them for entertainment value, either to read funny comments or to be funny.

After some thought, I think I'll quit the witty comments, because I am falling into the trap that so many others have fallen into in the forums. For me, I will use the forums for nothing but info for now on.

24.7k · May 18, 2007

OK here is my last post on this one. I think everyone is now just picking at each other and trying to be funny. I must admit I have read it for entertainment.

Maybe someone should start a topic on a subject like:

"Do you read forums because they are funny" or

"Are geocaching forums more to see who is the wittiest or for information on geocaching"

I admit, I am guilty of using them for entertainment value, either to read funny comments or to be funny.

After some thought, I think I'll quit the witty comments, because I am falling into the trap that so many others have fallen into in the forums. For me, I will use the forums for nothing but info for now on.

Trap. How interesting.

You have just tried and found the regulars guilty of a crime against what you think the forums should be.

4.7k · May 18, 2007

information only, huh? what's the point of that? geocaching is a GAME. it ain't brain surgery.

it's like life: surprising and funny, sad and infuriating. you argue, you play, you laugh, you commiserate. sometimes you say goofy stuff. it's democratic, dog-eat-dog, devil-may care. it's educational, uplifting, and rough-and tumble.

information is good. information AND entertainment is better.

and i don't think that anyone in this thread has missed the point.

22k · May 18, 2007

For me, I will use the forums for nothing but info for now on.

Borrrrring!

How do you like your toast, plain? :laughing:

May 18, 2007

This has been a great laugh, especially following some of the links. :laughing:

Just to toss out my 2cents: I'm not offended by religious trinkets, but the constatnt barrage of "You are going to Heck" pamphlets, especially when they fill up a cache, are annoying and I consider myself fairly religious. I can't imagine what the agnostic/athiest/hindu/muslim/hebrew/etc cachers must think.

As a rule I don't bother with the swag. I trade TB's, if I can help them towards a goal, and sign the log, but from now on I may start carrying FSM leaflets. Those are hilarious!

AK

2.6k · May 18, 2007

...It's when you start pushing an agenda, any agenda, that I find it a problem.

I've seen at least two of your agenda's in this thread. They were important enough for you to speak out on them. This is one of them.

Excuse me? :laughing:

What do you think my agenda is?

2.2k · May 18, 2007

This has been a great laugh, especially following some of the links.

Just to toss out my 2cents: I'm not offended by religious trinkets, but the constatnt barrage of "You are going to Heck" pamphlets, especially when they fill up a cache, are annoying and I consider myself fairly religious. I can't imagine what the agnostic/athiest/hindu/muslim/hebrew/etc cachers must think.

As a rule I don't bother with the swag. I trade TB's, if I can help them towards a goal, and sign the log, but from now on I may start carrying FSM leaflets. Those are hilarious!

AK

As I was reading your post, I realized we regularly hear from agnostic, athiestic, and Christian cachers...but none of the other groups you listed.

Just out of curiousity, does anyone know any Hindu, Muslim, or Hebrew cachers?

As to the rest of your comments, I am a Christian, I sometimes leave my personal coin, or another Christian themed coin as a sig item...but I get really irritated if I see a stack of any type of propaganda in a cache. Leave a signature item, but save the preaching and campaigning for a street corner somewhere.

May 18, 2007

Why do people get so worked up over religious trinkets? Are people afraid that they might be "converted" against their will, like being bitten by a vampire? Are they trying to deny the spiritual aspect of their lives, but something inside just won't go away?

Are we no more than animals? If so, then aren't toys and hobby materials equally ridiculous because the only thing important in life is survival?

If there is a social, spiritual, and political aspect of life, why be upset at its expression?

What DO we put in a cache to which someone will not take offence?

Religion and politics are part of life. It is much better to learn to enjoy them or, if you choose not to accept their premises, to laugh at them rather than to try to ban them or expect others to give them up. You will be doomed to failure.

Religion, politics, and the weather are all not going away. Deal with it.

If you want a world without controversy, you need to pick out the sole survivor and destroy all others. That's the only way it can work. (Just don't pick someone with a split personality.)

Bravo! Well said.

I enjoy looking through the things people find fit to leave in a cache. I have removed obvious trash and marveled at many things that another person would get upset about.

I leave the religious tracts alone, but I will remove most of them if there are more than three of the same exact tract. I'm Agnostic, but I have neat little collection of "Hater of God" tracts that have been left on my car, because it sports a Darwin Fish. I don't feel the least bit threatened by religion, but some religious folks feel threatened by me. That's too bad, but their tracts are great entertainment.

My prize among tracts is my Sweet Potato tract that Wimseyguy gave me at GW3.

My favorite piece of political swag is a sticker that says, "Buck Fush."

When jerks put Xtain propaganda in my caches it's goes straight into the garbage where it belongs.

4.7k · May 18, 2007

Why do people get so worked up over religious trinkets? Are people afraid that they might be "converted" against their will, like being bitten by a vampire? Are they trying to deny the spiritual aspect of their lives, but something inside just won't go away?

Are we no more than animals? If so, then aren't toys and hobby materials equally ridiculous because the only thing important in life is survival?

If there is a social, spiritual, and political aspect of life, why be upset at its expression?

What DO we put in a cache to which someone will not take offence?

Religion and politics are part of life. It is much better to learn to enjoy them or, if you choose not to accept their premises, to laugh at them rather than to try to ban them or expect others to give them up. You will be doomed to failure.

Religion, politics, and the weather are all not going away. Deal with it.

If you want a world without controversy, you need to pick out the sole survivor and destroy all others. That's the only way it can work. (Just don't pick someone with a split personality.)

Bravo! Well said.

I enjoy looking through the things people find fit to leave in a cache. I have removed obvious trash and marveled at many things that another person would get upset about.

I leave the religious tracts alone, but I will remove most of them if there are more than three of the same exact tract. I'm Agnostic, but I have neat little collection of "Hater of God" tracts that have been left on my car, because it sports a Darwin Fish. I don't feel the least bit threatened by religion, but some religious folks feel threatened by me. That's too bad, but their tracts are great entertainment.

My prize among tracts is my Sweet Potato tract that Wimseyguy gave me at GW3.

My favorite piece of political swag is a sticker that says, "Buck Fush."

When jerks put Xtain propaganda in my caches it's goes straight into the garbage where it belongs.

wow. that's hostile. i hope you are treated more kindly than that.

24.7k · May 19, 2007

...It's when you start pushing an agenda, any agenda, that I find it a problem.

I've seen at least two of your agenda's in this thread. They were important enough for you to speak out on them. This is one of them.

Excuse me?

What do you think my agenda is?

Fair question.

The first agenda one is an agenda against pushing an agenda. The other one was not tolerating intolerance. That could have been a joke but you seemed serious.

I'm not talking an agenda that runs to your very core. Just pointing out that we all have them.

2.6k · May 19, 2007

Fair question.

The first agenda one is an agenda against pushing an agenda. The other one was not tolerating intolerance. That could have been a joke but you seemed serious.

I'm not talking an agenda that runs to your very core. Just pointing out that we all have them.

Ok, fair enough.

It's just I hate seeing anyone having their right oppressed in the name of anything.

I guess it comes from seeing some much blood shed in the name of, well, in the name of just about anything. Intolerance breeds hatred, and hatred breeds death and I've seen too much of that.

I most definitely believe in the freedom of speech and religion, but it has to run both ways. :laughing:

2.7k · May 19, 2007

I most definitely believe in the freedom of speech and religion, but it has to run both ways.

I have rarely seen a better statement.

The big problem today with the "tolerance police" is that it ONLY RUNS ONE WAY. If you agree with them, you are "tolerant" if you do not agree with them, they want to shut you up.

Those who want "tolerance" and freedom to pursue their (usually out-of-the-ordinary) lifestyles, rarely extend the same courtesy to others (who are often the "mainstream").

2.7k · May 19, 2007

Truth be told, if an atheist, who by definition is CERTAIN there is no God, is offended by "God" or the mention of the word, heshe is showing hisherself to be offended by something which is NOTHING. How ridiculous is that?

It would be ridiculous if it were accurate. Generally speaking, an atheist isn't offended by the concept of God. He's offended by having that concept, and the related religious claptrap, continuously foisted upon him by believers. An atheist may believe you are a fool for your beliefs, but by and large he won't care unless and until you try to bring your beliefs to bear on his life.

I have some experience in this, as I was an atheist for many years. I no longer am, but as a member of a decidedly minority faith, I find that I still share a concern with the atheists - namely, I don't want anyone to force their religion or religious values on me.

Anyone can be annoying- about anything. You are right to be put off by those that "continually foist" their "claptrap" upon you.

But your point is totally out of the context of this discussion.

By placing religious materials or trinkets in a cache, the placer did not in any conceivable way "foist" anything on you. It is merely an object that you have encountered in your path. You may choose to look at it, or not. You may choose to read it (if it is reading material), or not.

And most of all, you may choose to BELIEVE it , or not.

Human beings are and always will be free moral agents and autonomous thinkers.

"Those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still." -Grandma :laughing:

Also, please note that great big two letter word in bold up there.

I submit to you that it IS in fact true that IF an atheist is offended by "God", it is patently ridiculous. The fact that any particular atheist or large or small group of atheists is/are NOT offended does not change the validity of the statement.

Edited May 19, 2007 by Confucius' Cat

2.5k · May 19, 2007

The big problem today with the "tolerance police" is that it ONLY RUNS ONE WAY. If you agree with them, you are "tolerant" if you do not agree with them, they want to shut you up.

Heh... reminds me of a conversation I observed the other day.

I work at a camp and conference center in New Hampshire. Our summer staff has started arriving from college. I was sitting with a bunch of them at a picnic table and the topic turned to politics. I typically keep my mouth shut during such conversations, so as I listened, they all started painting Republicans as a intolerant, bigoted lot. Suddenly, one turned to another and said, "Hey, Phil, aren't you a Republican?" When he answered that he was, the rest quietly booed, got up and left. :laughing: I don't think that the irony was lost on Phil, but still...

I gave him a high-five, partly because I, too, am a Republican, but mostly because he wasn't afraid to say so.

4.7k · May 19, 2007

i believe that hatred is evil, violence is wrong, and that which binds us together is better than that which rends us apart.

the wheels of social machinery require courtesy of all of us; a courtesy that is not limited to those we understand or agree with. it is important that those of us in the majority are not arrogant, but instead invite others to the table. it's easier in the long run to work with people than to dominate them. it's also richer and more productive.

i've sat on both sides of the dividing line between those who are privileged and those who aren't. i know how much i appreciate it when people who do not agree with me (and are certain that i'm going straight to hell) treat me with courtesy and respect.

it is interesting, though, that when you carry a message of "hello, majority culture, you are not the only acceptable alternative" some people will notice and welcome you, and some people will interpret your message as an attack on them.

2.7k · May 19, 2007

it is interesting, though, that when you carry a message of "hello, majority culture, you are not the only acceptable alternative" some people will notice and welcome you, and some people will interpret your message as an attack on them.

Sometimes it IS an attack. And sometimes the alternative is not "acceptable."

When someone wants to change the status quo there needs to be a compelling reason FOR the change, not just "there would be no harm in it", especially when the status quo clearly points out the (perceived?) harm.

No change truly takes place without an "attack". In as much as a person considers that attack personal against them, they are probably wrong, but they are not wrong for defending the status quo itself unless the status quo is proven to be reprehensible in itself.

Not all alternatives that are postulated as "acceptable" are in fact worthwhile or beneficial and some are downright detrimental to society.

it is possible to attack ideas and ideals without attacking personally, but it is rarely perceived that way, even when well executed.

2.7k · May 19, 2007

You know, if the computer would respond in a timely manner there wouldn't be double posts.

Edited May 19, 2007 by Confucius' Cat

4.7k · May 19, 2007

just call me purple sage moonchild.

parenthetically, when i was working as a cashier, a woman came through my lane who signed her check "moonbeam". i was kind of flustered, not knowing quite what to do.

but that's what it said on her driver's license. moonbeam. no last name. just moonbeam.

ooooo-k.

May 19, 2007

As I was reading your post, I realized we regularly hear from agnostic, athiestic, and Christian cachers...but none of the other groups you listed.

Just out of curiousity, does anyone know any Hindu, Muslim, or Hebrew cachers?

Now that I've thought about it "hebrew" would be the wrong term anyway, since that reflects genetic heritage and there are plenty of hebrews who don't choose Judaism and non-hebrews that do.

That said I do know (of) one Jewish cacher, but I don't know if he even bothers with the forums at all.

AK

May 19, 2007

On a sidenote, has anyone ever opened a cache, seen a religious pamphlet, and thought, "Oh boy!"? Does anyone ever take these things? This isn't a religious attack, I'm just curious as if there is anyone out there who finds these cool things to find in a cache?

(PS: I would if there were unique ones, or Chick Tracts, which I find somewhat unique, if not a bit...eh)

Edited May 19, 2007 by crtrue

24.7k · May 19, 2007

On a sidenote, has anyone ever opened a cache, seen a religious pamphlet, and thought, "Oh boy!"? ...

Would you settle for "Ha! Something other than broken McToys!"

I take them when they are moldy. I do read them to catch the flavor of whatever sect left but since that only takes about 30 seconds I leave them for the next guy.

Edited May 19, 2007 by Renegade Knight

May 19, 2007

"I submit to you that it IS in fact true that IF an atheist is offended by "God", it is patently ridiculous."

Atheists aren't offended by something they don't believe in. They aren't even offended, generally, by the idea. While I don't speak for everyone, I think Atheists tend to get offended when they are thought of less for not believing in God, for somehow seen as lesser agents in this world because they don't believe in the idea that so many people do.

May 19, 2007

On a sidenote, has anyone ever opened a cache, seen a religious pamphlet, and thought, "Oh boy!"? ...

Would you settle for "Ha! Something other than broken McToys!"

I take them when they are moldy. I do read them to catch the flavor of whatever sect left but since that only takes about 30 seconds I leave them for the next guy.

Fair enough. I do about the same with Chick Tracts, post cards, etc.

2.6k · May 19, 2007

On a sidenote, has anyone ever opened a cache, seen a religious pamphlet, and thought, "Oh boy!"? Does anyone ever take these things? This isn't a religious attack, I'm just curious as if there is anyone out there who finds these cool things to find in a cache?

(PS: I would if there were unique ones, or Chick Tracts, which I find somewhat unique, if not a bit...eh)

I glance at them just to see what they are. Then I just put it back and go about my business. Unless they are wet and moldy or whatever, then I remove them like any other a scrap of wet and moldy scrap of paper.

8.4k · May 19, 2007

SOME Human beings are and always will be free moral agents and autonomous thinkers.

I couldn't resist fixing this part of your post Dave.

What I write next may get me flamed but so what....

People (human beings) in the largest sense of the term are stupid. Only individuals are smart.

Any Jay-walkers clip on Leno will illustrate that in subjective terms, but clear enough.

People NEED their opinions fed to them by the various media to know what to think and do. Individuals process information and decide for themselves.

Without starting a social/political debate, some societies tend to breed more individuals than others.

One of the great things about geocaching for me is that we are a commonly associated group consisting mostly of individuals. It is evident in the creativity that most of us add to this community.

The minute geocaching goes hula-hoop, you will see what I mean quite clearly about people and individuals. I hope the mainstream even horizon is further off than have already I predicted. Cache reviewers be afraid. Be very afraid. <_<

24.7k · May 19, 2007

...One of the great things about geocaching for me is that we are a commonly associated group consisting mostly of individuals. It is evident in the creativity that most of us add to this community....

I've been kicking the tires in Tech forum this past year. In general the people here are far smarter than the ones in the tech forum. I'll even go so far as to say that the level of wisdom represented in caching is higher to boot.

May 19, 2007

...One of the great things about geocaching for me is that we are a commonly associated group consisting mostly of individuals. It is evident in the creativity that most of us add to this community....

I've been kicking the tires in Tech forum this past year. In general the people here are far smarter than the ones in the tech forum. I'll even go so far as to say that the level of wisdom represented in caching is higher to boot.

It's the nature of the sport. I think it just takes an individual to defy convention and turn finding plastic containers in the woods into a lifestyle choice. <_<

2.6k · May 19, 2007

People (human beings) in the largest sense of the term are stupid. Only individuals are smart.

Face it, for good or bad, people are sheep.

Sometimes it's better not to give a 'flock' about where the herd is going, and find your own way. <_<

May 19, 2007

People (human beings) in the largest sense of the term are stupid. Only individuals are smart.

Face it, for good or bad, people are sheep.

Sometimes it's better not to give a 'flock' about where the herd is going, and find your own way.

People are sheep who think that all the other sheep know something they don't

It's funny, because it's generally the people who defy convention who garner the least sheep.

Cache Naked. Watch the fleeing.

2.7k · May 19, 2007

"I submit to you that it IS in fact true that IF an atheist is offended by "God", it is patently ridiculous."

Atheists aren't offended by something they don't believe in. They aren't even offended, generally, by the idea. While I don't speak for everyone, I think Atheists tend to get offended when they are thought of less for not believing in God, for somehow seen as lesser agents in this world because they don't believe in the idea that so many people do.

That would seem inaccurate given the number of lawsuits brought by alleged atheists against public religious symbol displays. They seem to always CLAIM to be offended. I guess it would be fair to say they CLAIM to be atheists too, since we don't know their "hearts."

I would bet a lot of the "plaintiffs" in these cases are paid by the ACLU to be "offended." In which case your point is bolstered.

The minute geocaching goes hula-hoop, you will see what I mean quite clearly about people and individuals. I hope the mainstream even horizon is further off than have already I predicted. Cache reviewers be afraid. Be very afraid.

By "goes hula hoop" I assume you mean "gains incredible popularity to the point of 'everybody' doing it."

I would submit that that day is pretty close. This site has seen phenomenal growth (but not to the point of being well known to the 'muggles') and I already see your point.

There is a great deal of individuality and creativity, but there is also a disturbing amount of "sameness" in hides lately as has been discussed ad-nauseam in the forums.

Which... brings up the point that this discussion is nearly irrelevant as the modern day cache doesn't have room for Chick tracts. <_<

May 19, 2007

That would seem inaccurate given the number of lawsuits brought by alleged atheists against public religious symbol displays. They seem to always CLAIM to be offended. I guess it would be fair to say they CLAIM to be atheists too, since we don't know their "hearts."

They probably are about as offended as you would be if you saw a pentagram and the Wiccan reed posted on the front of your courthouse.

May 19, 2007

so as I listened, they all started painting Republicans as a intolerant, bigoted lot.

Welcome to New England.... <_<

8.4k · May 19, 2007

Cache Naked. Watch the fleeing.

People cache nekkid all the time. I have a Nude Cachin' locationless cache on Terracaching.com that is quite popular and highly rated.

Many of the photos are listed on this site, because they have been tastefully done to mask the naughty parts.

I have my entire file of pics for that cache saved to my computer and EVERY time I get a usb drive TB, I load it with ALL those pictures. <_<

Edited May 19, 2007 by Snoogans

May 19, 2007

Religion and politics are part of life. It is much better to learn to enjoy them or, if you choose not to accept their premises, to laugh at them rather than to try to ban them or expect others to give them up.

VERY true. They're a part of society. Noone likes everything, and nothing is liked by everyone... so if you see something that doesn't agree with your personal beliefs, just move on and ignore it. You DO still have the ability to NOT touch it.

However, there IS one exception to this rule. Advertisements. They may be a part of society unfortunately, but opening an ammo-can triggers a recorder to suddenly shout "YOU CAN BUY THE 2007 UBERFANCY SPEEDMOBILE FOR NO MONEY DOWN AND 1.9% FINANCING! BUY IT TODAY! BUY! BUY BUY BUY!!!!", I'm tearing out the recorder, smashing it, burning the remains, and then throwing what's left into an outhouse <_<

May 19, 2007

It's the nature of the sport. I think it just takes an individual to defy convention and turn finding plastic containers in the woods into a lifestyle choice.

<_<

May 19, 2007

If you claim a find without signing the log you will go straight to pit of fire and brimstone!

Again?!?!?! I just came from a pit of fire and brimstone!

May 19, 2007

As I was reading your post, I realized we regularly hear from agnostic, athiestic, and Christian cachers...but none of the other groups you listed. Just out of curiousity, does anyone know any Hindu, Muslim, or Hebrew cachers?

Not in the list, but mentioned in the thread. I'm approximately a Wiccan cacher. At least conceptually, if not in regular practice. Perhaps neo-solitaire-eclectic-Wiccan is closer. Or maybe neo maxi zoom dweebie. That's probably right on the money.

Pagan, anyway, by any reasonable definition.

And I'm nothing if not reasonable.

2.7k · May 19, 2007

Cache Naked. Watch the fleeing.

People cache nekkid all the time. I have a Nude Cachin' locationless cache on Terracaching.com that is quite popular and highly rated.

Many of the photos are listed on this site, because they have been tastefully done to mask the naughty parts.

I have my entire file of pics for that cache saved to my computer and EVERY time I get a usb drive TB, I load it with ALL those pictures.

<edited to save valuable bits>

i never have really understood why some body parts are "naughty" to begin with. But I bet more people are offended by nekkidness than by religion. There probably wouldn't be much controversy over removing "naughty" pictures and such from a cache as contraband.

Porn is another thing that you can't find two people who totally agree on- especially on a definition.

And why is it that we have two words that mean exactly the same thing like poop and s**t and one is "bad" and the other not?

The point is that if everyone removed what they considered improper, we would be stuck with ammo cans that for all intents and purposes could as well be film cans.

Religion and politics are part of life. It is much better to learn to enjoy them or, if you choose not to accept their premises, to laugh at them rather than to try to ban them or expect others to give them up.
VERY true. They're a part of society. Noone likes everything, and nothing is liked by everyone... so if you see something that doesn't agree with your personal beliefs, just move on and ignore it. You DO still have the ability to NOT touch it.

However, there IS one exception to this rule. Advertisements. They may be a part of society unfortunately, but opening an ammo-can triggers a recorder to suddenly shout "YOU CAN BUY THE 2007 UBERFANCY SPEEDMOBILE FOR NO MONEY DOWN AND 1.9% FINANCING! BUY IT TODAY! BUY! BUY BUY BUY!!!!", I'm tearing out the recorder, smashing it, burning the remains, and then throwing what's left into an outhouse

Just be sure to put something of equal value in as a trade. A pine needle perhaps?

Edited May 19, 2007 by Confucius' Cat

May 19, 2007

The big problem today with the "tolerance police" is that it ONLY RUNS ONE WAY. If you agree with them, you are "tolerant" if you do not agree with them, they want to shut you up. Those who want "tolerance" and freedom to pursue their (usually out-of-the-ordinary) lifestyles, rarely extend the same courtesy to others (who are often the "mainstream").

And vice versa. The difference being that the mainstream ones (think they) have the political clout and the moral right to dictate behavior to the other group.

May 19, 2007

But your point is totally out of the context of this discussion.

Only insofar as my point was aimed at a larger situation than just tracts placed in caches.

By placing religious materials or trinkets in a cache, the placer did not in any conceivable way "foist" anything on you. It is merely an object that you have encountered in your path. You may choose to look at it, or not. You may choose to read it (if it is reading material), or not. And most of all, you may choose to BELIEVE it, or not.

I wonder if, in the entire history of religious tracts, anyone was ever legitimately converted by reading one? I mean, since we're bandying about the word "ridiculous", placing tracts with the hope that it will make a convert or win a place in heaven or whatever the justification is, that surely goes well beyond ridiculous, and into absurd.

May 19, 2007

That would seem inaccurate given the number of lawsuits brought by alleged atheists against public religious symbol displays. They seem to always CLAIM to be offended.

It is exceedingly rare that lawsuits are brought regarding displays on private property. It is when these displays appear on public property that trouble follows. I suspect you're aware of the distinction, and simply chose to ignore it in the hopes that no one would catch on.

I find it offensive indeed when the Constitution is violated. I know a lot of people would like to do away with the establishment clause. I trust you're not among them?

May 19, 2007

Sometimes it IS an attack. And sometimes the alternative is not "acceptable."

I'd hazard to guess that the indigenous population of Central America that was wiped out by Spaniards hell-bent on spreading Christianity would fully agree with that assessment.

3.5k · May 19, 2007

I've been around here long enough to see this topic come and go so many times it would make your head spin. I have yet to see a single one of the discussions that came to any kind of agreement or managed to stay on topic.

Three pages so far here. Is there any light at the end of this tunnel?

Bret

May 19, 2007

I've been around here long enough to see this topic come and go so many times it would make your head spin. I have yet to see a single one of the discussions that came to any kind of agreement or managed to stay on topic.

Three pages so far here. Is there any light at the end of this tunnel?

Bret

If you've seen it more times than we know,then I think you know the answer bud... <_<

May 19, 2007

Is there any light at the end of this tunnel?

Bret

Yes, Matthew 6:5 - 6:7

3.5k · May 19, 2007

If you've seen it more times than we know,then I think you know the answer bud...

That I do....I'm just looking for a good excuse to not close this thread.

Please Keep Extraneous Materials out of Caches.

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