Please Keep Extraneous Materials out of Caches.

May 18, 2007

Truth be told, if an atheist, who by definition is CERTAIN there is no God, is offended by "God" or the mention of the word, heshe is showing hisherself to be offended by something which is NOTHING. How ridiculous is that?

It would be ridiculous if it were accurate. Generally speaking, an atheist isn't offended by the concept of God. He's offended by having that concept, and the related religious claptrap, continuously foisted upon him by believers. An atheist may believe you are a fool for your beliefs, but by and large he won't care unless and until you try to bring your beliefs to bear on his life.

I have some experience in this, as I was an atheist for many years. I no longer am, but as a member of a decidedly minority faith, I find that I still share a concern with the atheists - namely, I don't want anyone to force their religion or religious values on me.

May 18, 2007

Studies have shown that prayer improves the chances of an illness getting better sooner.

Not so much...

NY Times article

May 18, 2007

I Believe.

http://www.venganza.org/

But you can't put meatballs in a cache....

HIGH- Larious!!!!!!

22k · May 18, 2007

On topic: As with any item you find in a cache - Trade even, trade up, or don't trade at all. A simple enough mode of operation when you find tracts of any sort in a cache.

So, following the "trade up" rule, how many religous tracts equal one sweet potato tract?

Probably as many as I find in the cache. :laughing:

2.6k · May 18, 2007

Before I say anything let me say I could care less about any one religious/social view when it comes to caching. I say whatever floats your boat.

Now that we have that out of the way, I have to ask how those that are alright with the Christian materials would feel if someone left Wiccan material or Islamic tracts in a cache? I know many folks would throw a fit over that. Ask yourself if you wouldn't want Pagan material in a cache than how can you allow Christian material in a cache?

May 18, 2007

On the religious question, would it be OK, if I was a Satanist to leave some sort of satanist trinket?

On the political front, how about if I was a firm believer in NAMBLA? Can I leave NAMBLA literature?

If it's good for the goose, it should be good for the gander :-)

May 18, 2007

Before I say anything let me say I could care less about any one religious/social view when it comes to caching. I say whatever floats your boat.

Now that we have that out of the way, I have to ask how those that are alright with the Christian materials would feel if someone left Wiccan material or Islamic tracts in a cache? I know many folks would throw a fit over that. Ask yourself if you wouldn't want Pagan material in a cache than how can you allow Christian material in a cache?

Thread winning goal by Totem Clan...

22k · May 18, 2007

Before I say anything let me say I could care less about any one religious/social view when it comes to caching. I say whatever floats your boat.

Now that we have that out of the way, I have to ask how those that are alright with the Christian materials would feel if someone left Wiccan material or Islamic tracts in a cache? I know many folks would throw a fit over that. Ask yourself if you wouldn't want Pagan material in a cache than how can you allow Christian material in a cache?

I'd be just fine with it. I'd probably take it and read just out of interest.

I'm a Christian and I find most Christian tract annoying and serving no real purpose in a cache. I'll trade them out. Other religion's tracts? Yep, probably clean those out too. They don't make good swag and I'll need the room to drop in a bunch of kid stuff.

3.1k · May 18, 2007

Before I say anything let me say I could care less about any one religious/social view when it comes to caching. I say whatever floats your boat.

Now that we have that out of the way, I have to ask how those that are alright with the Christian materials would feel if someone left Wiccan material or Islamic tracts in a cache? I know many folks would throw a fit over that. Ask yourself if you wouldn't want Pagan material in a cache than how can you allow Christian material in a cache?

Thread winning goal by Totem Clan...

Only if the assertion that "many folks would throw a fit" is correct. I think I recall one thread once complaining about a pentagram item. Other than that, I've only seen threads about religious items in general.

Dreamcatchers, Tibetan prayer flags, and mini-inuksuit are highly prized items in my area.

May 18, 2007

Before I say anything let me say I could care less about any one religious/social view when it comes to caching. I say whatever floats your boat.

Now that we have that out of the way, I have to ask how those that are alright with the Christian materials would feel if someone left Wiccan material or Islamic tracts in a cache? I know many folks would throw a fit over that. Ask yourself if you wouldn't want Pagan material in a cache than how can you allow Christian material in a cache?

If I can hazard a guess, I would think that those religous enough to place Christian materials in the cache would want to be reaching out to "save" the people who left the Wiccan/Islamic/Pagan material. Therefore, they would be happy to know that members of their target audience frequent this cache.

May 18, 2007

I'm an Atheist, as is probably gathered from previous posts, and I have to add, if someone left a pocket Bible in my cache, I'd probably be more inclined to keep it. A Chick Tract, too.

What was left in my cache was a thin, folded pamphlet basically preaching someone's rambling ideas on god. I saw it for what it was -- trash. Just because the topic is Christianity doesn't mean it has inherent worth. At least Chick Tracts are kinda neat.

How about this -- does anyone know where I can find Islamic or other religious "tracts", either in comic or just generally interesting form? In my experience, anything that expresses a religious belief can usually be hadden for little to no money because you're supporting the belief -- kinda like those free Ubuntu disks I get in the mail

2.6k · May 18, 2007

How about this -- does anyone know where I can find Islamic or other religious "tracts", either in comic or just generally interesting form? In my experience, anything that expresses a religious belief can usually be hadden for little to no money because you're supporting the belief -- kinda like those free Ubuntu disks I get in the mail

I googled "Islamic tracts" and all I got was links to anti-Islamic Christian tracts. :laughing: <_<

The alone thing I am intolerant of is intolerance.

Edit to add: I have some Muslim friends, I could ask them if you want.

Edited May 18, 2007 by Totem Clan

4.7k · May 18, 2007

hey, i'm toasty with pagan stuff being left in a cache. hindu, buddhist, zoroastrian, what-have-you.

i'd much rather see this stuff than broken and dirty mctoys. when a cacher leaves these things, i consider it to be a statement about who they are, which is of interest to me. i am not afraid of or offended by other people's religions, nor by their lack of religion. good and decent people are everywhere if you're looking for them.

so fine. leave that stuff in caches if you wish for it to represent you. take it if it interests you. don't touch it if it gives you blisters.

what i DON'T like to see in caches are the heavy-handed tracts that tell me that i'm going straight to hell. these are kind of hostile and aggressive and in my opinion, inappropriate.

2.6k · May 18, 2007

hey, i'm toasty with pagan stuff being left in a cache. hindu, buddhist, zoroastrian, what-have-you.

i'd much rather see this stuff than broken and dirty mctoys. when a cacher leaves these things, i consider it to be a statement about who they are, which is of interest to me. i am not afraid of or offended by other people's religions, nor by their lack of religion. good and decent people are everywhere if you're looking for them.

so fine. leave that stuff in caches if you wish for it to represent you. take it if it interests you. don't touch it if it gives you blisters.

what i DON'T like to see in caches are the heavy-handed tracts that tell me that i'm going straight to hell. these are kind of hostile and aggressive and in my opinion, inappropriate.

Exactly.

There is a local cacher that leaves scripture cards and coins in caches. I see those as his sig item and I have no problem with that.

It's when you start pushing an agenda, any agenda, that I find it a problem.

May 18, 2007

I find the posts about trading religious tracts interesting. Let's see - trade equal.

A tract is meant to inform the reader about a particular religion or form of belief. Some (a few) do so in a hateful manner, but most are positive.

They are an advertisement. If I put an ad for a car or a particular burger chain in it's place, is that an equal trade?

I'm not knocking tracts in caches. They do no harm. I'm just saying that they are no more nor less than an ad; no matter how important they might be to the placer.

BTW, sbell111, I'm sorry about your hand. Read the posts above. Some present data that tell you that prayer will heal your pain - and some present data just the opposite. I'm glad that issue is solved.

8k · May 18, 2007

I think I'll start leaving puritan tracts in caches.

If you claim a find without signing the log you will go straight to pit of fire and brimstone!

2.6k · May 18, 2007

I think I'll start leaving puritan tracts in caches.

If you claim a find without signing the log you will go straight to pit of fire and brimstone!

:laughing:

That's almost as good as a llama.

24.7k · May 18, 2007

Truth be told, if an atheist, who by definition is CERTAIN there is no God, is offended by "God" or the mention of the word, heshe is showing hisherself to be offended by something which is NOTHING. How ridiculous is that?

It would be ridiculous if it were accurate. Generally speaking, an atheist isn't offended by the concept of God. He's offended by having that concept, and the related religious claptrap, continuously foisted upon him by believers. An atheist may believe you are a fool for your beliefs, but by and large he won't care unless and until you try to bring your beliefs to bear on his life.

I have some experience in this, as I was an atheist for many years. I no longer am, but as a member of a decidedly minority faith, I find that I still share a concern with the atheists - namely, I don't want anyone to force their religion or religious values on me.

Force is not the right word. You need a word for not wanting to listen to people exercise their free speech rights. Which of course you don't have to, but you do have to suffer a little irritation to know that you don't want to be here, before you can move on to find a zone free of the particular free speech that you don't want to hear.

That's just life. It's not force.

May 18, 2007

I'm an Atheist, as is probably gathered from previous posts, and I have to add, if someone left a pocket Bible in my cache, I'd probably be more inclined to keep it. A Chick Tract, too.

Well, yeah, I would too - the Chick Tracts are classics of comedic entertainment!

24.7k · May 18, 2007

...Now that we have that out of the way, I have to ask how those that are alright with the Christian materials would feel if someone left Wiccan material or Islamic tracts in a cache? I know many folks would throw a fit over that. Ask yourself if you wouldn't want Pagan material in a cache than how can you allow Christian material in a cache?

I find it all interesting. My world view in the religion departments starts with "Based on everthing I have seen there is a God" then after that it's pretty fuzzy. Wiccan is especially fascinating because the roots are buried in time and mostly lost. It's really "Neo Wiccan" as they try to re-invent it. As for Islam, another interesting thing. They have the best odds of ruling the world of any faith. It's amazing to me that they can have the same God as the people they hate but because of their faith in their particular prophet (one of many that their God called into service) they are willing to spill the blood of people who believe in the god but not the man. Then there are the 29837410987 Christian sects. That's a broad lable, but not all the sects think that all the other sects are actually christian...

The cool thing about all these tracts is that you can swap them out for the other tracts and call it a fair trade. If it gets heated enough I'm sure that eventually the Wiccan, Christan, Muslim, Bhudist, Taoist etc. will all meet on the trail. That would be interesting.

2.5k · May 18, 2007

Studies have shown that prayer improves the chances of an illness getting better sooner.
Not so much...

NY Times article

Like I said before:

Of course, you can offer your own statistics to support your side. This argument has been going on for centuries, it won't be answered in these forums, and nobody's going to sway anyone by belittling the other's side, but quite the contrary.

Doesn't really matter for the purposes of this thread anyways.

Many Christian tracts I've seen offend me, and I'm a Christian. I don't like 'em, but wouldn't support banning them, either. (At least not for the reasons stated here. I think a general ban on 'em would be great. What purpose do they fulfill? I see them as a tool to actually drive people away from Christianity.)

22k · May 18, 2007

Let's see - trade equal.

I never said that trading up wouldn't be really super easy. :laughing:

I have to use my own judgment when determining the value of a trade items. Most coupons state it is worth .01 of a penny so I'll be generous and give a tract .02 of a cent.

24.7k · May 18, 2007

...It's when you start pushing an agenda, any agenda, that I find it a problem.

I've seen at least two of your agenda's in this thread. They were important enough for you to speak out on them. This is one of them.

24.7k · May 18, 2007

...what i DON'T like to see in caches are the heavy-handed tracts that tell me that i'm going straight to hell. these are kind of hostile and aggressive and in my opinion, inappropriate.

Given you are willing to speak out strongly on the things that you believe in and have done so in my case at least once...I think that you should just accept that reality is that others believe in things just as strongly and are willing to push just as hard. Less hard actually becase a track is much less invasive than saying "Hey bucko, that's offensive". However I survied it from you, watched my use of the word in the forums and lived.

May 18, 2007

Wiccan is especially fascinating because the roots are buried in time and mostly lost. It's really "Neo Wiccan" as they try to re-invent it.

IMO, that's one of the great embarrassments of Wicca: the adherents who insist it's an ancient religion, when in fact it is a very recent invention that simply draws on ancient sources (and modern sources, as well). It's as if there's an insecurity about the religion, that a religion has to be old to be valid. Obvious nonsense, as all religions were new at one point.

Of course, there are those who will dismiss Wicca precisely because it is new, but they are making the exact same mistake.

The other great embarrassment of Wicca is the names. Lady Moonwalker Darktoast, etc. I mean, come on. What's wrong with "Sally" or "Robert"? Why do so many Wiccans insist on picking names that sound like they come from the Fuzzy Bunny Crystal Pagan Random Name Generator?

/rant.

I could really use a decent weekend. Sigh.

Edited May 18, 2007 by VeryLost

May 18, 2007

Wiccan is especially fascinating because the roots are buried in time and mostly lost. It's really "Neo Wiccan" as they try to re-invent it.

IMO, that's one of the great embarrassments of Wicca: the adherents who insist it's an ancient religion, when in fact it is a very recent invention that simply draws on ancient sources (and modern sources, as well). It's as if there's an insecurity about the religion, that a religion has to be old to be valid. Obvious nonsense, as all religions were new at one point.

Of course, there are those who will dismiss Wicca precisely because it is new, but they are making the exact same mistake.

The other great embarrassment of Wicca is the names. Lady Moonwalker Darktoast, etc. I mean, come on. What's wrong with "Sally" or "Robert"? Why do so many Wiccans insist on picking names that sound like they come from the Fuzzy Bunny Crystal Pagan Random Name Generator?

/rant.

I could really use a decent weekend. Sigh.

Where can I find the Fuzzy Bunny Crystal Pagan Random Name Generator?

20.7k · May 18, 2007

Wiccan is especially fascinating because the roots are buried in time and mostly lost. It's really "Neo Wiccan" as they try to re-invent it.
IMO, that's one of the great embarrassments of Wicca: the adherents who insist it's an ancient religion, when in fact it is a very recent invention that simply draws on ancient sources (and modern sources, as well). It's as if there's an insecurity about the religion, that a religion has to be old to be valid. Obvious nonsense, as all religions were new at one point.

Of course, there are those who will dismiss Wicca precisely because it is new, but they are making the exact same mistake.

The other great embarrassment of Wicca is the names. Lady Moonwalker Darktoast, etc. I mean, come on. What's wrong with "Sally" or "Robert"? Why do so many Wiccans insist on picking names that sound like they come from the Fuzzy Bunny Crystal Pagan Random Name Generator?

/rant.

I could really use a decent weekend. Sigh.

Where can I find the Fuzzy Bunny Crystal Pagan Random Name Generator?

Right here.

You may call me Elf Mignight Cloud.

May 18, 2007

I once got heartburn from eating a McD BigXtra. I no longer support the company and am offended by McToys.

Please don't leave them in any caches I may visit. :laughing:

Funny how this thread evolved into a religious roasting, one for another. What happened to the politics, global warming, save the whales etc?

To each their own. Me, I'm a Christian, and proud of it.

Jollylolly

20.7k · May 18, 2007

I once got heartburn from eating a McD BigXtra. I no longer support the company and am offended by McToys.

Please don't leave them in any caches I may visit.

Funny how this thread evolved into a religious roasting, one for another. What happened to the politics, global warming, save the whales etc?

To each their own. Me, I'm a Christian, and proud of it.

Jollylolly

There are no such thing as 'whales'. Any evidence to the contrary was manufactured by the 'whale' lobby.

May 18, 2007

There are no such thing as 'whales'. Any evidence to the contrary was manufactured by the 'whale' lobby.

They probably wouldn't fit in a cache anyway.

May 18, 2007

I once got heartburn from eating a McD BigXtra. I no longer support the company and am offended by McToys.

Please don't leave them in any caches I may visit.

Funny how this thread evolved into a religious roasting, one for another. What happened to the politics, global warming, save the whales etc?

To each their own. Me, I'm a Christian, and proud of it.

Jollylolly

There are no such thing as 'whales'. Any evidence to the contrary was manufactured by the 'whale' lobby.

I was just wondering myself how it went from "religion" to predominantly Christian.

May 18, 2007

Oh yes, I can see why some of you get so worked up over some ideas that you don't agree with.

I am the same way. I don't want something to influence my views.

I take out the following items immediately:

1. golf balls - they make me play golf

2. fishing lures -they make me fish

3. McToys - they make me eat McDonalds

4. Pens - they make me sign log books

5. log books - they make me sign them

6. zip lock bags - someone may suffocate

7. deck of cards - they make me gamble

8. DVD's - they make me watch TV

9. signature items - other cachers try to make me go cache

10. hot wheels - they insult me because I am not a kid

11. ammo cans - if i find one it makes me think of war. I always replace an ammo can with a comparable size container that in no way resembles war or has no religious or satanic markings on it.

Catch the sarcasm? That is what you are doing when you take an item out of a cache that was traded by a fellow cacher. Not many cachers trade anymore. You "filterers" who think you know what is good for everyone are the main reason people don't trade. You complain about what was traded and what it was traded for. Forget about it. Caching is for fun, not to gripe about.

The ONLY reason an item should be taken out is if it is one of these:

1. Not kid friendly (porn)

2. Illegal or dangerous (drugs, weapons)

3. Trash

4. Too big, and doesn't allow the cache to close properly

5. To trade for another item. (thanks sbell111 for the heads up!)

Quit complaining and cache!!!

Edited May 18, 2007 by bomb280

20.7k · May 18, 2007

5. To trade for another item.

2.2k · May 18, 2007

What happened to the politics, global warming, save the whales etc?

Jollylolly

Here is one with God, politics, and global warming!

Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, and Al Gore were in an airplane that crashed. They're up in heaven, and God's sitting on the great white throne. God addresses Al first.

"Al, what do you believe in?"

Al replies, "Well, I believe that the combustion engine is evil and that we need to save the world from CFCs and that if any more freon is used, the whole earth will become a greenhouse and we'll all die."

God thinks for a second and says "Okay, I can live with that. Come and sit at my left."

God then addresses Bill. "Bill, what do you believe in?"

Bill replies, "Well, I believe in power to the people. I think people should be able to make their own choices about things and that no one should ever be able to tell someone else what to do. I also believe in feeling people's pain."

God thinks for a second and says "Okay, that sounds good. Come and sit at my right."

God then address Hillary. "Hillary, what do you believe in?"

"I believe you're in my chair."

May 18, 2007

Where can I find the Fuzzy Bunny Crystal Pagan Random Name Generator?

Right here.

Outstanding!

May 18, 2007

Not many cachers trade anymore. You "filterers" who think you know what is good for everyone are the main reason people don't trade.

And here I thought that trash was the reason people didn't trade.

an item should be taken out is if it is one of these:
3. Trash

Hmmm.

20.7k · May 18, 2007

Not many cachers trade anymore. You "filterers" who think you know what is good for everyone are the main reason people don't trade.
And here I thought that trash was the reason people didn't trade.

In The Beginning, I would trade at every cache. Usually, I'd trade something out of one cache and trade it into the very next cache. Eventually, I got bored with it and pretty much stopped trading. It really didn't have anything to do with anyone's actions or the quality of swag.

4.7k · May 18, 2007

I was just wondering myself how it went from "religion" to predominantly Christian.

prob'ly because the people who leave tracts are predominantly Christian. it's part of both Christian and Islamic cultures to seek converts, but most other religions don't.

20.7k · May 18, 2007

I was just wondering myself how it went from "religion" to predominantly Christian.

prob'ly because the people who leave tracts are predominantly Christian. it's part of both Christian and Islamic cultures to seek converts, but most other religions don't.

What about vampires?

May 18, 2007

And here I thought that trash was the reason people didn't trade.

No, I thought trash was the reason but then I created a poll. Overwhelmingly the reason no one trades anymore is because of people complaining about what they trade.

Here's the link: Poll

4.7k · May 18, 2007

I was just wondering myself how it went from "religion" to predominantly Christian.

prob'ly because the people who leave tracts are predominantly Christian. it's part of both Christian and Islamic cultures to seek converts, but most other religions don't.

What about vampires?

i don't think vampire is a religion. it's a dietary movement.

2.5k · May 18, 2007

The other great embarrassment of Wicca is the names. Lady Moonwalker Darktoast, etc. I mean, come on. What's wrong with "Sally" or "Robert"? Why do so many Wiccans insist on picking names that sound like they come from the Fuzzy Bunny Crystal Pagan Random Name Generator?
Where can I find the Fuzzy Bunny Crystal Pagan Random Name Generator?
Right here.

You may call me Elf Mignight Cloud.

Pwll Whisper Myst here. Do ya think Groundspeak'll make an exception to changing a name if it is for religious reasons? :laughing:

May 18, 2007

I Believe.

http://www.venganza.org/

But you can't put meatballs in a cache....

HIGH- Larious!!!!!!

As an added note, the Church of FSM has pamphlets and brochures available for download here:

http://www.venganza.org/materials/brochures/

Expect to see these in a cache shortly :laughing:

Edited May 18, 2007 by LivesWithMonkeys

2.5k · May 18, 2007

I was just wondering myself how it went from "religion" to predominantly Christian.
prob'ly because the people who leave tracts are predominantly Christian. it's part of both Christian and Islamic cultures to seek converts, but most other religions don't.
What about vampires?
i don't think vampire is a religion. it's a dietary movement.

They also don't leave tracts. Can you see a vampire cacher's log, though?

Another great night cache! Wish someone had mentioned the garlic patch on the way in, I'll be itching for the next week. Found another cacher at the cache, what a nice surprise! Took: Blood & soul. Left: Really cool scar. TFTC!

11.3k · May 18, 2007

The other great embarrassment of Wicca is the names. Lady Moonwalker Darktoast, etc. I mean, come on. What's wrong with "Sally" or "Robert"? Why do so many Wiccans insist on picking names that sound like they come from the Fuzzy Bunny Crystal Pagan Random Name Generator?
Where can I find the Fuzzy Bunny Crystal Pagan Random Name Generator?
Right here.

You may call me Elf Mignight Cloud.

Pwll Whisper Myst here. Do ya think Groundspeak'll make an exception to changing a name if it is for religious reasons?

Hydra Sunbeam Phoenix here . . . but I don't think I want to change my user name to that . . . too much to try to write on those tiny LPC logbooks.

:laughing:

May 18, 2007

I always leave a Pez dispenser behind (minus the delicious packets of sweet sugary goodness, of course). They don't make a baby Jesus pez dispenser, and Muslims don't allow depictions of Mohammed, so they don't make those either. Unless you're offended by the occasional halloween themed pez dispenser, I think I'm safe. If you are offended, you may want to consider getting an actual life. :laughing:

As far as being religious go, emo philips pretty much sums it up:

emo philips: Religion

Maybe I'll put a tithe box in my cache and accept donations. You can rely on your faith that I'll use it for good, and not a six pack.

May 18, 2007

Can you see a vampire cacher's log, though? "Another great night cache! Wish someone had mentioned the garlic patch on the way in, I'll be itching for the next week. Found another cacher at the cache, what a nice surprise! Took: Blood & soul. Left: Really cool scar. TFTC!"

I do a lot of caching at night. Strictly a coincidence, I assure you. It doesn't mean anything. These aren't the droids you're looking for.

May 18, 2007

I Believe.

http://www.venganza.org/

But you can't put meatballs in a cache....

HIGH- Larious!!!!!!

As an added note, the Church of FSM has pamphlets and brochures available for download here:

http://www.venganza.org/materials/brochures/

Expect to see these in a cache shortly

Ramen to that! :laughing:

24.7k · May 18, 2007

I once got heartburn from eating a McD BigXtra. I no longer support the company and am offended by McToys.

Please don't leave them in any caches I may visit.

Funny how this thread evolved into a religious roasting, one for another. What happened to the politics, global warming, save the whales etc?

To each their own. Me, I'm a Christian, and proud of it.

Jollylolly

You know, I should boycot them for getting rid of the Mc D L T. Hot side hot, cold side cold. I liked that one. True it created twice as much waste as anything else...

This thread is actually the most civil religion discussion I've seen in these forums.

Oh and for my fuzzy funny fluffy neo pagan name generator how about if I just stick with RK? It's a fake enough name for most purposes. My real name works for all the other purposes. Maybe my christian name is in the book of life. Maybe I won't recognize that one if it's called. That would suck.

3.1k · May 18, 2007

You know, I should boycot them for getting rid of the Mc D L T. Hot side hot, cold side cold. I liked that one. True it created twice as much waste as anything else...

It didn't agree with you, huh? I have that problem with Taco Bell.

Please Keep Extraneous Materials out of Caches.

Recommended Posts