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Question for those who geocache armed:


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Getting back to the original question...

 

I use the aforementioned 5.11 vest. The handgun slips into either frontside of the vest. What I like about the vest are all the pockets for a GPS, PDA, flashlight, batteries, geocoins, handcuffs ;), and even water bottles in the rear. I cache in the Southwest, sometimes very close to the Border - within a stone's throw away. On my early morning hikes, I have come across undocumented migrants. But, they're not the ones I'm worried about. Mountain lions are a constant threat; two fellow cachers have had close encounters, and mtn lion prints are always being sighted.

 

511_vest_LG.jpg

 

I own one of these and I alternate between it and a Molle shoulder pack depending on climatic conditions.

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Getting back to the original question...

 

I use the aforementioned 5.11 vest. The handgun slips into either frontside of the vest. What I like about the vest are all the pockets for a GPS, PDA, flashlight, batteries, geocoins, handcuffs ;), and even water bottles in the rear. I cache in the Southwest, sometimes very close to the Border - within a stone's throw away. On my early morning hikes, I have come across undocumented migrants. But, they're not the ones I'm worried about. Mountain lions are a constant threat; two fellow cachers have had close encounters, and mtn lion prints are always being sighted.

 

511_vest_LG.jpg

 

I own one of these and I alternate between it and a Molle shoulder pack depending on climatic conditions.

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Sort of, although you left out some at the beginning and separated two means of deadly force. The increasing scale, as I was taught, is:

 

1. Command presence, i.e., your presence in a situation

2. Command voice, i.e., a loud voice

3. Soft hands, i.e., leading the person away, some compliance holds

4. Hard hand, i.e., strikes, punches, some compliance holds

5. Intermediate weapons, i.e., less-than-lethal weapons such as batons, night sticks, saps, stun guns, tasers, and pepper spray

6. Deadly force, i.e., firearms, knives, ice picks, automobiles, choke holds, etc.

 

There are many variations of the above list out there for those who choose to study the matter further. In general, the law states that you must use the least amount of force necessary to stop the attack. As Snoogans eloquently stated above, if you haven't considered these things don't carry a gun until you get trained. With all due respect to the concealed carry instructors out there, a single state-mandated minimum requirement CCW class is not enough. Being a good shot on a square range is not enough. Seek out and take training in the use of force, preferably involving force-on-force scenarios. It's not cheap but it sure beats the alternative.

 

 

Some of the best training is experience. I shoot in IDPA events whenever I can. IDPA = International Defensive Pistol Association. Read this article.

 

 

It effectively simulates some real world experience just by the adrenaline rush and loss of manual dexterity that occurrs with that rush. The courses themselves have little to do with the real world, but the rush you get and the difficulty you have reloading, clearing malfunctions, and just thinking clearly in the moment are quite valuable.

 

 

If you're buff, try shooting IPSC. The International Practical Shooting Confederation is NOT for everyone. Only the buff need apply. Not my cup, but an option for those serious enough to graduate from IDPA.

 

 

As training goes it's a whole lot better than PAYING to listen to some ex-cop/ex-military blowhard talk about their firefights in Nam or down in the hood. LEARN by DOING. Don't bother with videos and seminars.

 

Some comments on some of your statements:

 

I couldn't agree with you more on your statement that "some of the best training is experience." However, experience involves incorporating practical knowledge and practical exercise. Without practical knowledge, which can be taught in a "classroom setting" all the practical experience in the world is worthless. In the military we call this the crawl, walk, run method. Once an individual has been schooled in the basics, hands-on practical exercises are the best way to reinforce the training.

 

However, as stated by pcunningham, one needs to be careful about what procedures are being reinforced during the practical exercises as they may result in "negative" training. I've been involved in military live-fire exercises where safety considerations have outweighed combat reality and resulted in "negative" training.

 

You state IDPA "effectively simulates some real world experience just by the adrenaline rush and loss of manual dexterity that occurrs with that rush." Are you positive about that? Have you been in an intense firefight where the guy next to you has just had the side of his face blown off? I don't think there's anything out there that will adequately prepare you for that in the shooting arena.

 

Just some thoughts to ponder.

 

 

I'm a firm believer in "you fight like you train." There are too many real world examples of negative training to deny that fact. I stated earlier in this thread, that if you don't practice reloading from the configuration that you carry most often, you might as well leave the extra rounds at home and save the weight in your pack. Make that first shot count and don't think you can spray bullets to make up for lack of skill.

 

 

Yes I'm quite positive that IDPA helps in training for those of us fortunate enough to have not had the experience of live combat. It helps you learn your body's reaction to shooting in a pressure situation. I'm quite sure it's not very much like the real thing, but I hope I never find out first hand either.

 

 

I read and watched videos and attended firearms training seminars as a student and at the instructor level for many years before I shot IDPA. I knew about the 75% loss of manual dexterity that happens in sudden stressfire situations. No amount of study prepared me for the intense physical reaction to actually shooting under stress. IDPA proved the theory through practice like no amount of classroom and independant study had before. I would urge anyone that plans to carry regularly to shoot IDPA at least once to experience their own reaction to shooting under pressure.

 

 

Have you been in an intense firefight where the guy next to you has just had the side of his face blown off? I don't think there's anything out there that will adequately prepare you for that in the shooting arena.

 

 

Umm, yea.... Well, no I've never been in a firefight. I don't believe I made any statements that IDPA shooting would prepare one for real combat. I qualified my statement by using the word, "some."

 

 

Let's take a moment for me to clarify my message. This thread is about cachin' armed. To me, if you don't understand the mechanics of your weapon (how to load, fire, and quickly clear malfunctions) and the theory and laws behind what is and isn't a justified use of force, you shouldn't be carrying a firearm in the first place.

 

 

So, taken as read that these criteria are covered for this thread about cachin armed then YES, IDPA is the best possible training/experience you can get (that I know of) to understand how YOU might possibly react in a stressfire situation. That is valuable knowledge that you can't get from a book, a DVD, or in a classroom. Go back to class if you think you need it, but after my first IDPA event, most of what the experts had to say about their own experiences meant very little to my own.

 

 

Most experts give you the basics, some useful tricks and tips, and fill the rest of the space with stories and experiences that are unique to them alone and of very little use to the student. Hey, it sells books and DVDs though. ;) Go get your own experience shooting IDPA and borrow someone else's Massad Ayoob or Jeff Cooper DVD. You'll save a few bucks.

 

Well I guess we agree. Never said that practical exercise, in your case IDPA, was not a good thing however it needs to be incorporated with practical knowledge, some of which may come in the form of classroom instruction. BTJMO.

 

BTW, you've now got me interested in IDPA!!! It looks like it will be something else which will vie for my time.

Edited by eagletrek
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Great, now you want me to become a martial arts expert. Not everyone involved in this sport may be fit or young enough for that nor agile enough to work a baton. Advising someone to first defend themselves using hands-on techniques seems foolish as I remember the quote "don't bring a knife to a gun fight". A handgun self defense course would be a better use of someone's time and money.

Pretty silly post IMO.

 

"Taking a knife to a gun fight" is indeed "Foolish", but so is pulling a gun on someone who only intended a fist fight.

 

I learned MY lesson about having only one tool and I PERSONALLY chose MA as my primary non-lethal tool (after talking to defuse the situation of course- if possible- ALWAYS the first step). I am not recommending MA per-se, I only stated that it was MY choice.

 

i chose MA for several reasons, because it is fun, good exercise, and precisely for the reason you cite: MA does not require you to carry a bunch of "junk" to cover every conceivable scenario. One of the biggest advantages of MA is that you can't inadvertently leave it at home. :D

 

On the downside, MA, as it is generally practised, is a lot like shooting as it is generally practised... meaning not really very practical for self defence. The techniques are very powerful and the practice does train one's reflexes to respond without much thought in a precise pattern, but the scenarios practised are often very unrealistic when it comes to street encounters. Primarily MA is an ART FORM, rather than primarily a self defence system. (There are some MA that would defy this generalisation.)

 

As I believe I clearly stated in my earlier post, MA IS NOT FOR EVERYBODY.

 

If one is not 'fit" enough for MA (or to swing a baton), there are plenty of other non-lethal alternative weapons available. One would do well to pick at least ONE of them, become proficient in its use, and carry it ALWAYS.

 

Since you seem to be unwilling to accept that there is anything less than a gun worth having for your defence, i suppose you will have to learn otherwise by your own experience

 

I hope for your sake you come to that realisation without actually shooting someone unnecessarily and having to live with all the consequences of that mistake.

 

OBTW, any "handgun self defense course" worth "someone's time and money" is going to teach escalation and appropriate use of force anyway. When NOT to shoot (and even when NOT to show your weapon) is actually the most important part of a defence shooting course.

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Great, now you want me to become a martial arts expert. Not everyone involved in this sport may be fit or young enough for that nor agile enough to work a baton. Advising someone to first defend themselves using hands-on techniques seems foolish as I remember the quote "don't bring a knife to a gun fight". A handgun self defense course would be a better use of someone's time and money.

Pretty silly post IMO.

 

"Taking a knife to a gun fight" is indeed "Foolish", but so is pulling a gun on someone who only intended a fist fight.

 

I learned MY lesson about having only one tool and I PERSONALLY chose MA as my primary non-lethal tool (after talking to defuse the situation of course- if possible- ALWAYS the first step). I am not recommending MA per-se, I only stated that it was MY choice.

 

i chose MA for several reasons, because it is fun, good exercise, and precisely for the reason you cite: MA does not require you to carry a bunch of "junk" to cover every conceivable scenario. One of the biggest advantages of MA is that you can't inadvertently leave it at home. :D

 

On the downside, MA, as it is generally practised, is a lot like shooting as it is generally practised... meaning not really very practical for self defence. The techniques are very powerful and the practice does train one's reflexes to respond without much thought in a precise pattern, but the scenarios practised are often very unrealistic when it comes to street encounters. Primarily MA is an ART FORM, rather than primarily a self defence system. (There are some MA that would defy this generalisation.)

 

As I believe I clearly stated in my earlier post, MA IS NOT FOR EVERYBODY.

 

If one is not 'fit" enough for MA (or to swing a baton), there are plenty of other non-lethal alternative weapons available. One would do well to pick at least ONE of them, become proficient in its use, and carry it ALWAYS.

 

Since you seem to be unwilling to accept that there is anything less than a gun worth having for your defence, i suppose you will have to learn otherwise by your own experience

 

I hope for your sake you come to that realisation without actually shooting someone unnecessarily and having to live with all the consequences of that mistake.

 

OBTW, any "handgun self defense course" worth "someone's time and money" is going to teach escalation and appropriate use of force anyway. When NOT to shoot (and even when NOT to show your weapon) is actually the most important part of a defence shooting course.

 

Where do I start on a post like this...

You obviously are clairvoyant or think people are if you will allow an assailant to attack you with fist or any other nonfirearm. Pretty sure of the outcome huh? People never die from blunt trauma, strangulation, knife wounds in your world. Rape never happens unless the bad guy has a gun huh? Sure pepper spray would be a great choice for dogs while jogging in a park but don't trick people into thinking it's an equivalent alternative to a handgun when things really turn nasty. It's not. I have always said know the laws but in the end, it's your choice, carry what you feel comfortable with and can legally carry.

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Great, now you want me to become a martial arts expert. Not everyone involved in this sport may be fit or young enough for that nor agile enough to work a baton. Advising someone to first defend themselves using hands-on techniques seems foolish as I remember the quote "don't bring a knife to a gun fight". A handgun self defense course would be a better use of someone's time and money.

Pretty silly post IMO.

 

"Taking a knife to a gun fight" is indeed "Foolish", but so is pulling a gun on someone who only intended a fist fight.

 

I learned MY lesson about having only one tool and I PERSONALLY chose MA as my primary non-lethal tool (after talking to defuse the situation of course- if possible- ALWAYS the first step). I am not recommending MA per-se, I only stated that it was MY choice.

 

i chose MA for several reasons, because it is fun, good exercise, and precisely for the reason you cite: MA does not require you to carry a bunch of "junk" to cover every conceivable scenario. One of the biggest advantages of MA is that you can't inadvertently leave it at home. :anitongue:

 

On the downside, MA, as it is generally practised, is a lot like shooting as it is generally practised... meaning not really very practical for self defence. The techniques are very powerful and the practice does train one's reflexes to respond without much thought in a precise pattern, but the scenarios practised are often very unrealistic when it comes to street encounters. Primarily MA is an ART FORM, rather than primarily a self defence system. (There are some MA that would defy this generalisation.)

 

As I believe I clearly stated in my earlier post, MA IS NOT FOR EVERYBODY.

 

If one is not 'fit" enough for MA (or to swing a baton), there are plenty of other non-lethal alternative weapons available. One would do well to pick at least ONE of them, become proficient in its use, and carry it ALWAYS.

 

Since you seem to be unwilling to accept that there is anything less than a gun worth having for your defence, i suppose you will have to learn otherwise by your own experience

 

I hope for your sake you come to that realisation without actually shooting someone unnecessarily and having to live with all the consequences of that mistake.

 

OBTW, any "handgun self defense course" worth "someone's time and money" is going to teach escalation and appropriate use of force anyway. When NOT to shoot (and even when NOT to show your weapon) is actually the most important part of a defence shooting course.

 

Where do I start on a post like this...

You obviously are clairvoyant or think people are if you will allow an assailant to attack you with fist or any other nonfirearm. Pretty sure of the outcome huh? People never die from blunt trauma, strangulation, knife wounds in your world. Rape never happens unless the bad guy has a gun huh? Sure pepper spray would be a great choice for dogs while jogging in a park but don't trick people into thinking it's an equivalent alternative to a handgun when things really turn nasty. It's not. I have always said know the laws but in the end, it's your choice, carry what you feel comfortable with and can legally carry.

*confused*

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*confused*

 

The way I read his comments is that he feels the drunk taking a swing at him is the same level of threat as the punk holding him up at gunpoint and both require him to use deadly force. His reasoning is that it's possible that a fist can be as deadly as a gun.

 

rdaines - please feel free to correct me if I've misinterpreted what you said.

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*confused*

 

The way I read his comments is that he feels the drunk taking a swing at him is the same level of threat as the punk holding him up at gunpoint and both require him to use deadly force. His reasoning is that it's possible that a fist can be as deadly as a gun.

 

rdaines - please feel free to correct me if I've misinterpreted what you said.

That's pretty much what I got out of it too.

I guess his policy is "shoot 'em all, let God sort 'em out."

 

I guess that brings up a point that is back on topic:

 

"For those who cache armed, how do you carry?"

 

I would suggest that if one does not know how to distinguish a deadly threat from a lesser encounter and therefore is prone to draw a gun at the slightest threat, IMO the best carry rig one can have is the hard shell case in which the gun was originally packaged, with the ammunition properly stored elsewhere, and the gun and hard-shell case locked up securely in a quality gun safe AT HOME, only to be taken out when one goes to the shooting range. *deadly serious*

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having been in firefights in vietnam, it is usually the one with the mostest firepower and the accuracy of such a firefight will hold the day. again small weapons are useless unless your protecting yourself from small threats, that's why i carry a .44mag or a .45 gold cup colt. the first shots are the ones that count. accuracy over 15 shots from a 9mm will never take the place of one accurate shot from a .44mag or .45. learn to hit what you shoot at as far away as you can, then close type shots will always be a stopper. i don't really worry about snakes or other critters such as bear's cougars etc. but it is resuring to be able to shoot with some type of weapon that will stop such critters in their tracks.

 

oh i have a ffl license and have a ccp for our state which came with the ffl license.

 

stopping power and accuracy will always be my choice over 'pop' weapons, be they either 9mm 15shot spray and hope or other plinker type weapons. and i agree reloading durning a firefight is useless unless you have someone to 'cover' your reloading.

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having been in firefights in vietnam, it is usually the one with the mostest firepower and the accuracy of such a firefight will hold the day. again small weapons are useless unless your protecting yourself from small threats, that's why i carry a .44mag or a .45 gold cup colt. the first shots are the ones that count. accuracy over 15 shots from a 9mm will never take the place of one accurate shot from a .44mag or .45. learn to hit what you shoot at as far away as you can, then close type shots will always be a stopper. i don't really worry about snakes or other critters such as bear's cougars etc. but it is resuring to be able to shoot with some type of weapon that will stop such critters in their tracks.

 

oh i have a ffl license and have a ccp for our state which came with the ffl license.

 

stopping power and accuracy will always be my choice over 'pop' weapons, be they either 9mm 15shot spray and hope or other plinker type weapons. and i agree reloading durning a firefight is useless unless you have someone to 'cover' your reloading.

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There is no point having a comversation with C Cat since he is obviously antigun. Others who post and say they understand self defense with a handgun are clearly also living foolishly if they think they have the luxury of time to figure out what the intentions of an assailant are and exactly what he/she is carrying. If you don't think you can be killed or maimed by fists or feet you're knowledge is severely lacking. The purpose of carrying is to protect ones life, if you think that ONLY translates into "the attacker must have a gun", you are wrong. Proving a justified defensive shooting in a court is another matter but at least I'll be around to try, some of you may not.

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There is no point having a comversation with C Cat since he is obviously antigun. Others who post and say they understand self defense with a handgun are clearly also living foolishly if they think they have the luxury of time to figure out what the intentions of an assailant are and exactly what he/she is carrying. If you don't think you can be killed or maimed by fists or feet you're knowledge is severely lacking. The purpose of carrying is to protect ones life, if you think that ONLY translates into "the attacker must have a gun", you are wrong. Proving a justified defensive shooting in a court is another matter but at least I'll be around to try, some of you may not.

 

I certainly don't think Confucius' Cat is anti-gun, and I certainly understand that a person doesn't have to have a gun to be a deadly threat. I'm merely saying that there may be other, more appropriate responses rather than shooting the attacker. For example, If a person is trying to run me down with a car, i.e., attacking me with a deadly weapon, my response would be to get out of the way, not draw and double-tap him.

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There is no point having a comversation with C Cat since he is obviously antigun. Others who post and say they understand self defense with a handgun are clearly also living foolishly if they think they have the luxury of time to figure out what the intentions of an assailant are and exactly what he/she is carrying. If you don't think you can be killed or maimed by fists or feet you're knowledge is severely lacking. The purpose of carrying is to protect ones life, if you think that ONLY translates into "the attacker must have a gun", you are wrong. Proving a justified defensive shooting in a court is another matter but at least I'll be around to try, some of you may not.

 

I certainly don't think Confucius' Cat is anti-gun, and I certainly understand that a person doesn't have to have a gun to be a deadly threat. I'm merely saying that there may be other, more appropriate responses rather than shooting the attacker. For example, If a person is trying to run me down with a car, i.e., attacking me with a deadly weapon, my response would be to get out of the way, not draw and double-tap him.

 

I agree with the car example, duty to retreat is still prevalent in many of the CCW laws. Fortunately here in Missouri we no longer have to when threatened in our homes or cars.

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I agree with the car example, duty to retreat is still prevalent in many of the CCW laws. Fortunately here in Missouri we no longer have to when threatened in our homes or cars.

Huh! Here in SC the duty to retreat refers to, partially, being within your home or your auto. Here, anyone within your home who is not authorized by you or by law is automatically deemed a direct and immediate threat. I'm sure some solicitors don't know the danger they just put themselves in when they step over the threshold of my garage to sell me carpet cleaning or offer to save my soul. :anitongue:

 

Obviously you can't hurl insults at someone until they rush you at your doorstep and be within your right to "defend yourself." There are many things to consider most which fall into two different categories; being at fault and getting out of the situation.

 

I, personally, don't agree 100% with the scenario of someone trying to run me over with a car. If someone is trying to kill me or a loved one then I'm going to eliminate that threat the best I can. If I can get away or get the loved one away, then that's the first option. If that's not available...

 

I don't carry looking to shoot someone. I carry so I have another option in protecting me and my wife from violence.

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There is no point having a comversation with C Cat since he is obviously antigun. Others who post and say they understand self defense with a handgun are clearly also living foolishly if they think they have the luxury of time to figure out what the intentions of an assailant are and exactly what he/she is carrying. If you don't think you can be killed or maimed by fists or feet you're knowledge is severely lacking. The purpose of carrying is to protect ones life, if you think that ONLY translates into "the attacker must have a gun", you are wrong. Proving a justified defensive shooting in a court is another matter but at least I'll be around to try, some of you may not.

If you had read even a small portion of my posts you would see that I am ex-cop, and I pack 24/7. (except when in bed, naked, or under water) :anitongue:

 

I guess the fact that i understand there exist "don't shoot" scenarios when the bad guy MIGHT have deadly intentions somehow makes me anti-gun? *more confused than ever*

 

If you don't think you can be killed or maimed by fists or feet you're knowledge is severely lacking.

 

Really? You don't thing a black-belt would understand that? (I am still waiting for my hands to be registered as deadly weapons like the "old wive's tale" said when I was a kid) :anitongue:

 

You are right about the "clairvoyant" thing- I am not and can only judge based on the perp's actions, which MIGHT cause me to hesitate the split second that would have saved my life, but that's the way it goes- no matter what your weapon or expertise, you might not always win.

 

I stand by my statement. If you don't understand "shoot - don't shoot", then by all means LEAVE THE GUN AT HOME.

 

Sorry to be so anti-gun. :rolleyes:

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I think I just saw my new hiking/geocaching carry gun, the lightweight scandium Model 357PD in .41 Rem Mag.

160230_thumb.jpg

 

I already have a Marlin level rifle in that caliber, betcha I could use the same handloads for each or tweak'em a bit.

Forgot to mention that is has a red, fiber optic front sight which is really easy to see and line up.

Edited by rdaines
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I, personally, don't agree 100% with the scenario of someone trying to run me over with a car. If someone is trying to kill me or a loved one then I'm going to eliminate that threat the best I can. If I can get away or get the loved one away, then that's the first option. If that's not available...

 

Agreed; the only constant in self defense is that there are no constants.

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Since this topic got brought up in another post I'll add in my two cents. I haven't carried on a cache yet mainly because of the areas I've been in. Now that I'm venturing out more into the deeper woods I have more of the chances of running into one of our lovely Indiana Meth Labs. In saying that I'll probably pull out the Taurus PT111 and bring it along. It'll go on my hip where I can get to it quickly. Putting it in a fanny pack isn't worth the risk. If you ever have been shot at before you will know that quick access to your weapon is the only thing that will save your life. Keep it in a place that you won't have to dig for.

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Check out fanny packs specifically designed to be holsters, access is pretty fast and unencumbered, usually one zipper which is no different that on my Maxpedition pack. A thumb break could take just as long on some holsters and should rigs. I just can't open carry all the time either legally or for other reasons. Some cache trails are, of course, hiking and biking trails. Even though hunting is allowed (when in season) seeing a gun or bow will sometimes invoke a response that can just ruin your caching day if they have cell phone signal.

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I carry my H&K P2000SK .40cal concealed in a hip holster when I cache...

 

I've heard of open in Washington but I'm not as brave as Criminal

 

Here's what I know of Washington's open carry...

 

http://www.galleryofguns.com/ShootingTimes...les.asp?ID=8066

 

Washington is an "open-carry" state, but with an oddball statutory provision that enables people who are offended by the sight of a firearm to have a law-abiding gun owner arrested under some circumstances on the grounds that it "warrants their alarm."

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I carry my H&K P2000SK .40cal concealed in a hip holster when I cache...

 

I've heard of open in Washington but I'm not as brave as Criminal

 

Here's what I know of Washington's open carry...

 

http://www.galleryofguns.com/ShootingTimes...les.asp?ID=8066

 

Washington is an "open-carry" state, but with an oddball statutory provision that enables people who are offended by the sight of a firearm to have a law-abiding gun owner arrested under some circumstances on the grounds that it "warrants their alarm."

Nothing could be further from the truth. The law reads like this:

It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, [1] in a manner, [2] under circumstances, [3] and at a time and [4] place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.
Numbers and emphasis added. Notice it says, 'warrants alarm', not causes alarm. That's important.

 

In a recent trial, the state appealed the trial court ruling that suppressed their evidence against a man who was arrested for carrying two rifles down the street. The appeals court affirmed the trial court, saying that the officers who detained the man did so illegally, and all the evidence that came from the illegal detention was inadmissible.

 

Here, the Defendant was carrying a rifle only partially concealed and clearly identifiable as a rifle to the citizen who made the call as well as law enforcement officers, with the barrel pointing towards the ground walking on a main thoroughfare in the City of Port Angeles in daylight hours. In fact there were two rifles, which would likely be less alarming than the carrying of one rifle. Nothing indicates that the manner in which the Defendant was carrying the weapons in any way would give reasonable cause for alarm unless the mere fact of carrying a weapon within the city limits in the open in daylight on a major thoroughfare in and of itself would cause such alarm. The statute does not and, under the Constitution, cannot prohibit the mere carrying of a firearm in public. Therefore the Court finds that the officers at the time of the initial contact had no reasonable articulable suspicion that any criminal activity was occurring.
We note that, in connection with this case, several individuals have commented that they would find it strange, maybe shocking, to see a man carrying a gun down the street in broad daylight. Casad's appellate counsel conceded that she would personally react with shock, but she emphasized that an individual's lack of comfort with firearms does not equate to reasonable alarm. We agree. It is not unlawful for a person to responsibly walk down the street with a visible firearm, even if this action would shock some people.

 

Open carry is perfectly legal in Washington.

Edited by Criminal
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Nothing could be further from the truth. The law reads like this:

It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, [1] in a manner, [2] under circumstances, [3] and at a time and [4] place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.
Numbers and emphasis added. Notice it says, 'warrants alarm', not causes alarm. That's important.

 

In a recent trial, the state appealed the trial court ruling that suppressed their evidence against a man who was arrested for carrying two rifles down the street. The appeals court affirmed the trial court, saying that the officers who detained the man did so illegally, and all the evidence that came from the illegal detention was inadmissible.

 

Here, the Defendant was carrying a rifle only partially concealed and clearly identifiable as a rifle to the citizen who made the call as well as law enforcement officers, with the barrel pointing towards the ground walking on a main thoroughfare in the City of Port Angeles in daylight hours. In fact there were two rifles, which would likely be less alarming than the carrying of one rifle. Nothing indicates that the manner in which the Defendant was carrying the weapons in any way would give reasonable cause for alarm unless the mere fact of carrying a weapon within the city limits in the open in daylight on a major thoroughfare in and of itself would cause such alarm. The statute does not and, under the Constitution, cannot prohibit the mere carrying of a firearm in public. Therefore the Court finds that the officers at the time of the initial contact had no reasonable articulable suspicion that any criminal activity was occurring.
We note that, in connection with this case, several individuals have commented that they would find it strange, maybe shocking, to see a man carrying a gun down the street in broad daylight. Casad's appellate counsel conceded that she would personally react with shock, but she emphasized that an individual's lack of comfort with firearms does not equate to reasonable alarm. We agree. It is not unlawful for a person to responsibly walk down the street with a visible firearm, even if this action would shock some people.

 

Open carry is perfectly legal in Washington.

 

Out Standing!!! Thanks for the info thats good to know.

Edited by geoSpartan
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I carry a S&W 44 mag, (sometimes my berretta 40cal.) and my wife carries a S&W 357 both in open carry. Up here in Montana it is legal to carry open. We only carry when out in the woods or mountains 'caching or camping. We both have our large fanny packs with survival gear while out also, you never know what will happen. We dont really carry in fear of a human confrontation, only large aggressive animals (which there are alot of them up here). Lucky we are that we havent needed to use them! Would be a shame to have to kill such beautiful animals. They pretty much stay clear of you and are not aggressive unless you startle them or come between them and there babies. Only had 1 bear come thru our camp in 20 years up here and my chihuahua scared it away! LOL

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Amazing the thread took so long to devolve into "why-why not" from the original question of "If you do, how?"

 

I do. No explanation needed. What is a Charter Bulldog .44 Special. How is an original Roy Jinks Pancake, right hip. Open or under a vest, as the surroundings dictate. I am a CCW licensee.

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Keltec .380 either like this or fanny pack or pocket or the smartcarry crotch pocket. I like having options depending on clothing and weather. With CCW permit of course.

 

MVC-037S.jpg

 

Is this secured somehow, or is it just dangling around your neck? I'm guessing that it's also clipped to your shirt?

 

I carry a Beretta .380 in a custom made paddle type Fist holder (on my hip), with a Fist belt. Fist makes holsters for both Men and Women. Men's holsters do not fit the female hip well. They have ones that fit the female hip in a comfortable manner (made for women). I always carry. I'm a former Air Force Law Enforcement cop, and I have a concealed weapons permit.

 

Does anyone know if open carry is legal in Florida?

 

This thread is very interesting. I've read many good idea's and saved many links. I really like that chest holster, plus a few other options that people posted. I have a fanny pack holster that I have not used in 10 years maybe? I may dig that out. I wonder if there has been any new designs on them. The one I have is pretty good. Access to the weapon is FAST (rip cord). I would need to practice drawing and shooting from it though. It's been awhile. The fanny pack would be easier then the hip holster in the florida heat. Open carry in the woods would by far be the best though.

 

I'm new to Geocaching and am really liking it. It seems that cops and military are attracted to this sport, besides the rest of the very diverse masses.

Edited by coffeepotbend
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However I have been advised (by a police chief, not a lawyer) that if you intend to carry at all, it is best to carry all the time. The reason is that if, God forbid, you do have to shoot someone, in the inevitable civil suit brought by the dirt-bag's relatives, they will try to show that you "strapped the gun on your hip and went looking for someone to shoot."

 

The problem:

Lawyer: "Why were you carrying your gun that day?"

Defendant: "I just KNEW there would be trouble, there always is in that neighbourhood."

Lawyer: "So you armed yourself for the specific purpose of going to my client's neighbourhood?"

*it goes downhill from here*

 

The better way:

Lawyer: "Why were you carrying your gun that day?"

Defendant: "I ALWAYS carry a gun if it is legal to do so, sir."

*lawyer pursues another line of questioning because he didn't get anywhere with this one*

 

I carry every once in awhile, but have never had the need to draw let alone use my civilian weapon. But I would think that if I ever get in a self-defense situation I would let a lawyer do all the answering for me. You just never know how a prosecuter or a jury views your demeaner, nervous and you over reacted, self confident and you went looking for trouble.

 

I don't carry a gun but I do carry Peper Spray and YES I had to use it after I was attacked by a homeless boy. I felt real bad about it afterwards and I tried to clean him up before the Cops came I was concerend because the Peper Spray was twice the legal strength however the police did'nt seem to mind. If I had a gun instead of the Peper Spray that boy would be dead and I would be living with that.

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Ever since a serious encounter with a cougar 10 years ago I open-carry a .45 LC ruger vaquero single action revolver. I live near the Teton/Yellowstone ecosystem, so I am used to encountering moose, buffalo, cougar, bear, and now, even wolves. I have never had to shoot one of these wonderful creatures, but I have scared a few off with my sidearm in the past. Besides, the moose are the worst of the bunch, they send folks to the hospital more often than you would expect.

 

I prefer to use a western style holster as I like the low position on my leg... it keeps it out of the way. Where I live it is not uncommon to see sidearms, but in the Park (Yellowstone) firearms are prohibited so I wear bear bells and carry a walking stick instead. The firearm makes me feel more secure as I am very familiar with it and practice often. Not sure how well bells will protect me from wild beasties and trailhead crime, but Yellowstone is well worth the risk to me :)

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Where I live it is not uncommon to see sidearms, but in the Park (Yellowstone) firearms are prohibited so I wear bear bells and carry a walking stick instead. The firearm makes me feel more secure as I am very familiar with it and practice often. Not sure how well bells will protect me from wild beasties and trailhead crime, but Yellowstone is well worth the risk to me <_<

 

I've heard the easiest way to identify grizzly bear droppings is that it smells like bear repellent spray and has little bells in it . . . <_<

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However I have been advised (by a police chief, not a lawyer) that if you intend to carry at all, it is best to carry all the time. The reason is that if, God forbid, you do have to shoot someone, in the inevitable civil suit brought by the dirt-bag's relatives, they will try to show that you "strapped the gun on your hip and went looking for someone to shoot."

 

The problem:

Lawyer: "Why were you carrying your gun that day?"

Defendant: "I just KNEW there would be trouble, there always is in that neighbourhood."

Lawyer: "So you armed yourself for the specific purpose of going to my client's neighbourhood?"

*it goes downhill from here*

 

The better way:

Lawyer: "Why were you carrying your gun that day?"

Defendant: "I ALWAYS carry a gun if it is legal to do so, sir."

*lawyer pursues another line of questioning because he didn't get anywhere with this one*

 

I carry every once in awhile, but have never had the need to draw let alone use my civilian weapon. But I would think that if I ever get in a self-defense situation I would let a lawyer do all the answering for me. You just never know how a prosecuter or a jury views your demeaner, nervous and you over reacted, self confident and you went looking for trouble.

 

I don't carry a gun but I do carry Peper Spray and YES I had to use it after I was attacked by a homeless boy. I felt real bad about it afterwards and I tried to clean him up before the Cops came I was concerend because the Peper Spray was twice the legal strength however the police did'nt seem to mind. If I had a gun instead of the Peper Spray that boy would be dead and I would be living with that.

 

No problems with that. I wouldn't have even looked twice at a supposedly "homeless boy" or taken the time to clean him up. (I've lived on the streets since I was 13 before I married my husband. I know these jerks..because I *was* one. I'm sure he had a "home"...but he was just looking for an easy target.

 

Remember...it's better to be tried by twelve than carried by six. :huh:

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I would imagine that many people in the US who can carry firearms do so at all times, not just while caching.

Answering Canadavey, this pretty much sums it up but I will expand.

 

If your vehicle does not HAVE a seat belt, you have a valid reason for not WEARING a seat belt- otherwise a prudent person wears his seat belt. (Analogy to countries and/or localities that do not allow non-law-breakers to carry guns)

 

Basically, if one is allowed to carry a firearm, one is prudent to do so unless there are unusual mitigating circumstances like being in a position where one might risk losing personal control of the weapon (i.e. camping with youths, playing sports... ).

 

No harm comes from RESPONSIBLE carrying of firearms by law abiding citizens.

 

As the old hackneyed adage goes, "better to have a gun and not need one than to need a gun and not have one."

 

The word "gun" can be replaced by the name of virtually any piece of emergency preparedness equipment, i.e. "fire extinguisher," "first aid kit," "defibrillator," "valid major debit card" etc.

 

For those who DO carry almost all the time, I am an advocate of small, easily hidden, and convenient carry weapons. When one carries all waking hours of the day, bigger weapons get tiring, cumbersome, and inconvenient in a big hurry.

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I'm curious... Why exactly does one need to carry a gun while Geocaching? Hopefully incase you run into an animal that is a threat and not to remove any FTF competition.

 

I'll look past the possible troll attempt and give my POV and answer:

 

Because I doubt very much that someone who would look to do myself or my loved ones harm (or innocent folks in general) would care if I am only geocaching, or shopping, or hiking, or attending a class, or going to the movies...

 

I carry concealed wherever legal. Innocent activities are not guaranteed safe activities.

(Also, I prefer not to be a "soft target")

Edited by Fogtripper
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I'm curious... Why exactly does one need to carry a gun while Geocaching? Hopefully incase you run into an animal that is a threat and not to remove any FTF competition.

 

Certainly animal threats would rank up there. I've killed a rabid coon while out and about. Not while caching, but a likely possibility nonetheless.

 

Also, there have been a couple times I've put a deer under that was hit by a vehicle.

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