Is this a bad idea for a Geocache?

[+Couparangus]

I had an "extreme cache" idea after watching Jackass reruns (shame, I know). I know of a snakepit overrun with eastern milk, ribbon, garter, brown snakes and lord knows what else. The pit itself is about 1 ft in diameter and about 2ft deep, maybe more. I went and had a look on the weekend and counted eight of our scaly friends hanging around near the opening to the pit. They slithered down the hole eventually. I was thinking of hiding a container tethered with a rope down into it.

 

I guess I could make it really extreme by forgoing the rope and just dropping the container down inside.

Is this an incredibly bad idea?

 

C-A

[+Ursamajr]

you're kidding right?

[+hamgran]

Hi, CouparAngus!

I would be concerned about the effect on the snakes' habitat. (But then again, I purposely delay doing tree caches where there is an active (eggs present) birds' nest nearby, in order to not disturb them.)

I wonder if you could put a cache nearby, and note the pit on the cache page, so that cachers can mention the kinds of snakes they see there - at a distance.

Not extreme, I guess, but better for our creatures?

- Cathy

[danoshimano]

I'm with Hamgran. That's the snakes' bedroom, so it would be best to leave it alone. However, if you put a cache anywhere near a snakepit, just getting close to it would be extreme to me! When it comes to snakes, my basic instincts prevail.

[Stroover]

Bad idea reason #1) Disturbing a wildlife habitat.

#2) Jeoporadizing human safety.

 

To put the cache a few meters away might be a better idea, and folks could just have a peek at the snakes from a safe distance.

[+Renegade Knight]

Bad idea reason #1) Disturbing a wildlife habitat.

#2) Jeoporadizing human safety.

 

To put the cache a few meters away might be a better idea, and folks could just have a peek at the snakes from a safe distance.

 

Or 300 meteres away and give a distance and bearing. That way people know to be wary as they get closer. The last thing I want is to suprise a rattle snake. Well, I wouldn't want to suprize a mountian lion or grizzly bear either. But I think the OP gets the drift.

[+Knight2000]

If they weren't poisonous, i would like it. Just me though.

[+bwmick]

POisonous snakes are pretty hard to come bt in ontario, not impossiple by tough a quote from a GoC website "

 

Jay Ingram

 

At one time it was found right across Ontario. But wetlands were drained, towns and roads were built... and its habitat destroyed.

 

Today all that remain are four isolated populations:

 

The Ojibway Nature Reserve in the city of Windsor

 

The Wainfleet Marsh, in the Niagara Region

 

The Bruce Peninsula

 

And the eastern shores of Georgian Bay.

 

Since 1991, the Massasauga has been listed as a threatened species."

 

I agree with the rest about leaving nesting/breeding areas be but won't worry too much about rattlers or other poisonous snakes while moving around the Ontario backcountry

 

bwmick

[danoshimano]

Time for a story about poison snakes in Ontario:

 

When I was 7 or 8, I was camping with my family at a park on Eagle Lake on Ontario. It was the Ontario Teachers' Federation camp, but I can't remember exactly where in Ontario it is located.

 

One sunny day, my dad and I went for a walk on the nature trail around the edge of the lake. This trail was wide and well used, and I was in my bare feet. My father was walking half a pace behind me, with his hand on my arm at the elbow. The reason we walked together this way was not because I might run off, but because he is totally blind and that's how you walk with a blind person (the half pace behind allows him to feel steps and changes in elevation).

 

So there we are walking merrily along, when suddenly he stops abruptly, and stops me too.

 

"What's THAT?" my dad asks.

 

"What?" says I.

 

"THAT!" he says, sounding quite anxious.

 

And that's when I see the big coil of rattlesnake, one step directly in front of us. Its tail is sticking up and rattling like mad, and its head is pulling back to strike.

 

"A RATTLESNAKE!" I cried out. In the next instant I flew straight up in the air and the snake struck, missing my foot by inches (it was before the metric system).

 

My airborne manoeuver to escape the snake's strike was thanks to my father's quick thinking. He knew that snake was right there, and he was wearing large rubber boots, so by pulling me up into the air out of harm's way, he could take a strike in the boot (it missed him). I never even saw the snake leave the scene.

 

All the way back I was freaked out that it was going to happen again, and ol' dad just stomped his big boots as hard as he could, assuring me that the snakes would flee before him. They must have, because I didn't see any more.

[+hamgran]

What a neat story, Dano! Thanks for sharing.

[+Couparangus]

I've put a bit more thought into this and I agree disturbing their pit would not be a good idea. However, I'm thinking to log a successful find the cacher must take a picture of at least one of the snakes. This picture must take in enough background to confirm they were there and didn't download the pic or re-use an old snake picture. (This won't be hard given the rather unique landscape in the immediate vicinity). The area is crawling with snakes though and I nearly stepped on one while I was there so this cache wouldn't be for everyone. That said, I'm sure there are times when no snakes can be seen lending a bit of luck to a successful log. Can one place a container-less cache these days?

Edited May 15, 2007 by Couparangus

[+Othum]

Is there some way this could be made into an Earth cache?

[+geoSquid]

Hi, CouparAngus!

I would be concerned about the effect on the snakes' habitat. (But then again, I purposely delay doing tree caches where there is an active (eggs present) birds' nest nearby, in order to not disturb them.)

I wonder if you could put a cache nearby, and note the pit on the cache page, so that cachers can mention the kinds of snakes they see there - at a distance.

Not extreme, I guess, but better for our creatures?

- Cathy

 

I'd have to agree here. I have no particular fear of snakes, but a cache in the hole would disturb habitat, and if it got found out, the tree-hugger set would have an absolute field day over it.

[+Couparangus]

It doesn't appear that container-less caches may be placed any more. I'm thinking micro here as I can place one 3ft from the pit itself and its not likely to be discovered. Here are some of the names I'm thinking of:

"Ophidiophobes and Herpetophobes Need Not Apply"

"Legless"

"No Sandals Please, We're Everywhere"

"Mice Always Welcome"

 

C-A

Edited May 15, 2007 by Couparangus

[+ElectroQTed]

I'd love to see the snake pit! I agree with the idea of placing the cache far enough away for the comfort of those that don't like to get up close and personal with herps, and post additional co-ords for those of us who would like a gander. But hey, it's your cache and not all caches are meant for all people. If you place it 3 feet from the pit, I'm still a-goin'!

[danoshimano]

If you place it 3 feet from the pit, I'm still a-goin'!

 

I'm not! Just looking at the *pictures* in the original post sets my neurons a-firin' and they're saying "RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!"

[+Landsharkz]

I must admit I really like snakes. If it ever gets listed, (and it can be visited without disturbing the little darlings habitat ) I'll be putting it on my 'love to do one day' list!

[+Tequila]

If you are in the neighbourhood, visit GC11PZV - The Rat's Demise.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...a9-c9e5795ad0e7

Edited May 17, 2007 by Tequila

[+The red-haired witch]

I've put a bit more thought into this and I agree disturbing their pit would not be a good idea. However, I'm thinking to log a successful find the cacher must take a picture of at least one of the snakes. This picture must take in enough background to confirm they were there and didn't download the pic or re-use an old snake picture. (This won't be hard given the rather unique landscape in the immediate vicinity). The area is crawling with snakes though and I nearly stepped on one while I was there so this cache wouldn't be for everyone. That said, I'm sure there are times when no snakes can be seen lending a bit of luck to a successful log. Can one place a container-less cache these days?

 

I'd like to find a cache near (not in...) such a snake pit, and giving the coordinates of the pit for curious people who like snakes (I like those non-poisonous ones ) is a great idea. The picture requirement does not seem like it would add anything to the experience, though. Not every cacher carries (or owns) a digital camera.

[+TOMTEC]

Snakes, Why Did It Have To Be Snakes?

 

You're not a real adventurer until you've fought your way through a snake pit, recovered the long lost treasure, and saved the girl! Seeing as Juicepig already has the Fedora, I'm betting on him for FTF...

 

TOMTEC

[+Belfrypotters]

I'm not a herpetologist, but it sounds like a hibernaculum. Snakes will travel many kilometers to a good over-wintering place (not easy if you have no legs!), and any kind of disturbance, even by well-meaning nature-lovers, could have a negative effect on the populations. Many snake species are at the northern limits of their ranges in Canada, and have a pretty tough time surviving. Much as I'd love to see so many snakes in one place, I think this might be one place that should be kept a secret, for the snakes' sakes. We have a couple of hibernacula in the Edmonton area and their locations aren't advertised. Maybe you could check with a local snake expert and see what they think.

[+Belfrypotters]

This reference might be helpful:

http://www.jstor.org/view/00221511/ap050106/05a00110/0

assuming I've done the linky-thing correctly .

[+The Blue Quasar]

The "Red-Haired Witch" has the best idea IMHO. Hide a regular cache and then provide the location of the Snake Hole as a 'reference point' using the additional waypoints thingy like you would for parking or trailhead.

 

Having to provide a picture of the snake area however makes it rather virtual cache in nature and several of my caching buddies and I have talked about the idea of having to do more than sign the log and is that allowed or can it even be enforced? Besides, people will share their photos naturally anyway and how many pictures of the same spot do we need?

 

You might want to run the idea of having 'extra requirements for successfully logging a find' past Cache-Tech before you place the cache. There might be something in the guidelines too.

 

I understand your desire to make a challenging cache, boy do I after having done one of yours and this would certainly challenge people physically and mentally, especially in the realm of fear.

 

Good for you for wanting to expand and provide something for the more extreme people. Danger can be fun, if everyone knows what they are getting into before hand and are properly prepared.

 

The Blue Quasar

[WashoeZephyr]

Or you could hide one like this nearby!

[+Couparangus]

I appreciate all the thoughts on this one. I learned that the area of the pit could be private property thus making a cache out of the question. I was out today with my daughter who insisted on seeing the snake pit - although stood well back!! I picked up a little brown snake (sorry no picture, hands full) but she was a little nervous about handling that one, although I was eager to give it away as it pooped on my hand and it stunk. I did however get some pictures of the milk snakes we saw and posted them here.

If I go with the cache nearby at the most obvious point of interest, and post the coord's of the snake pit as an additional point of interest, I have another problem. There's already a cache at the location!

 

C-A