Elitists - You know who you are...

[+Snoogans]

... I don't care who you are...doctor, lawyer, trash collector, Nobel Prize winner, redneck, live in a mansion, live in a mobile home down by the river, have a membership at Augusta National or just a season pass to the local Putt-Putt course... if you like geocaching then you have geek tendencies or you're a full fledged geek! As for me, well I'm a college graduate, own my own bussiness and have a beautiful home in the country..but guess what? I'M A GEEK TOO! That's right and I don't mind admitting it.

So, all you "elitist geocachers" out there (and you know who you are) bring your heads down out of the clouds and shape up. Before you start treating others with distain, look in the mirror and tell yourself, "Oh my God...I like geocaching..I'm a geek!" and embrace it, then enjoy it... 'cause it's true.

 

Well I only scored a 9.46 on the Inner Geek Quiz, so that blows holes in your theory .

1.76%

 

I didn't even know what half of that stuff was.

 

 

27.0217% - Total Geek

 

 

My lord I never thought I'd score that high. I am pitifully low tech.

 

 

I guess all the sci-fi and science stuff did me in. I had to check every single author they listed.

[+Snoogans]

As I have never attended an event, perhaps someone can answer this for me:

 

I went caching in a county park a few weekends back and realized there was a group of cachers about 30 minutes in front of us. It made things difficult to fully enjoy the hunt for the cache as they were generally just done re-hiding the cache when we got there and their presence in that spot pretty much gave away the location. Wouldnt you have the same situation only 20x worse at an event with tons of people there?

 

Personally, I enjoy the solitude of the woods when I am out caching (well, except for my team of "trained monkeys"). What is the allure of doing it with a crowd of people?

 

 

If you have to ask........

 

 

Just GO to an event and see for yourself.....

[+LivesWithMonkeys]

As a newbie, it seems to me a lot of this can be solved by an addition to the rating system

 

Scenic vs. Non-scenic

 

I could be wrong, but I think the old schoolers want caches to lead you to cool places to see (aka Scenic). This does not necessarily mean to me that it has to be up in the mountains. There can be cool parks or streams or monuments or views in urban as well as rural settings.

 

I guess on this point, I agree somewhat with the old timers. I prefer caches that lead me to some place worth seeing. I am not saying the other kind of cache isnt good too. Just that there should be a way to differentiate between them so I can know what I am getting into before heading out.

 

Which leads me into logging caches you didnt find. If, in my opinion, the goal of the hider is to get me to see this cool place, then finding the cache should almost be optional. I suggest another option:

 

Got to the spot, enjoyed the view, didn't care as much about finding the cache.

 

That way, it doesnt have to be logged as DNF, which can make the hider think something is wrong.

 

As for micro caches, my kids(monkeys) tend to prefer caches with goodies. Micros are fine if you like them, and since I can filter those out, I have no problem with them. I like the idea mentioned previously about micros being used as first stages of a multi-cache to reach the real container...but to each their own.

 

As for elitism in Geocaching, remember that geekiness/dorkiness/nerdiness is contagious. You might be better off not hanging out too closely with these people. Just say thanks for small favors.

[+egami]

As I have never attended an event, perhaps someone can answer this for me:

 

I went caching in a county park a few weekends back and realized there was a group of cachers about 30 minutes in front of us. It made things difficult to fully enjoy the hunt for the cache as they were generally just done re-hiding the cache when we got there and their presence in that spot pretty much gave away the location. Wouldnt you have the same situation only 20x worse at an event with tons of people there?

 

It's kind of a mix...some you hammer on right away get a FTF or two, some you actually get a couple groups there searching together and some you get there shortly after...I like social atmosphere of the events more than anything. I usually go to events by myself and hook up with some other people there alone.

[+Totem Clan]

As I have never attended an event, perhaps someone can answer this for me:

 

I went caching in a county park a few weekends back and realized there was a group of cachers about 30 minutes in front of us. It made things difficult to fully enjoy the hunt for the cache as they were generally just done re-hiding the cache when we got there and their presence in that spot pretty much gave away the location. Wouldnt you have the same situation only 20x worse at an event with tons of people there?

 

Personally, I enjoy the solitude of the woods when I am out caching (well, except for my team of "trained monkeys"). What is the allure of doing it with a crowd of people?

Events are just get togethers. Maybe a cookout or a dinner at a resturant, even a camping trip. They are not caching trips.

[+Klatch]

As I have never attended an event, perhaps someone can answer this for me:

 

Personally, I enjoy the solitude of the woods when I am out caching (well, except for my team of "trained monkeys"). What is the allure of doing it with a crowd of people?

Wow, that about sums up the crux of the debate. Different geocachers have different perceptions of what is alluring. Some people like the woods and solitude, some people enjoy the social aspect. Some people enjoy both.

[+LivesWithMonkeys]

As I have never attended an event, perhaps someone can answer this for me:

 

I went caching in a county park a few weekends back and realized there was a group of cachers about 30 minutes in front of us. It made things difficult to fully enjoy the hunt for the cache as they were generally just done re-hiding the cache when we got there and their presence in that spot pretty much gave away the location. Wouldnt you have the same situation only 20x worse at an event with tons of people there?

 

Personally, I enjoy the solitude of the woods when I am out caching (well, except for my team of "trained monkeys"). What is the allure of doing it with a crowd of people?

 

 

If you have to ask........

 

 

Just GO to an event and see for yourself.....

Considering that my kids would be complaining all day if one of the 30 people around us found the cache before they got a chance to, I would prefer finding out BEFORE I go.

[+Snoogans]

As I have never attended an event, perhaps someone can answer this for me:

 

I went caching in a county park a few weekends back and realized there was a group of cachers about 30 minutes in front of us. It made things difficult to fully enjoy the hunt for the cache as they were generally just done re-hiding the cache when we got there and their presence in that spot pretty much gave away the location. Wouldnt you have the same situation only 20x worse at an event with tons of people there?

 

Personally, I enjoy the solitude of the woods when I am out caching (well, except for my team of "trained monkeys"). What is the allure of doing it with a crowd of people?

 

 

If you have to ask........

 

 

Just GO to an event and see for yourself.....

Considering that my kids would be complaining all day if one of the 30 people around us found the cache before they got a chance to, I would prefer finding out BEFORE I go.

 

 

Not much of a risk taker are ya?

 

 

It's just like the forums EXCEPT people generally are muuuuuch nicer.

 

 

Go to an event. You will feel like an outsider for about 2 seconds.

[+sbell111]

As I have never attended an event, perhaps someone can answer this for me:

 

I went caching in a county park a few weekends back and realized there was a group of cachers about 30 minutes in front of us. It made things difficult to fully enjoy the hunt for the cache as they were generally just done re-hiding the cache when we got there and their presence in that spot pretty much gave away the location. Wouldnt you have the same situation only 20x worse at an event with tons of people there?

 

Personally, I enjoy the solitude of the woods when I am out caching (well, except for my team of "trained monkeys"). What is the allure of doing it with a crowd of people?

It's kind of like playing golf. The solution to your problem is to either hang back just a few extra minutes or to play through and make them follow you.

[+LivesWithMonkeys]

As I have never attended an event, perhaps someone can answer this for me:

 

I went caching in a county park a few weekends back and realized there was a group of cachers about 30 minutes in front of us. It made things difficult to fully enjoy the hunt for the cache as they were generally just done re-hiding the cache when we got there and their presence in that spot pretty much gave away the location. Wouldnt you have the same situation only 20x worse at an event with tons of people there?

 

Personally, I enjoy the solitude of the woods when I am out caching (well, except for my team of "trained monkeys"). What is the allure of doing it with a crowd of people?

It's kind of like playing golf. The solution to your problem is to either hang back just a few extra minutes or to play through and make them follow you.

I was thinking either:

 

Join them

 

or

 

Start mentioning Gulf War flashbacks, the voices in my head, and the bodies in the shallow graves in my back yard. I imagine they would just move on.

[+egami]

It's kind of like playing golf. The solution to your problem is to either hang back just a few extra minutes or to play through and make them follow you.

 

That's kind of funny you mention that because at the event I was at a month ago or so our group started yelling "fore" at groups when we were coming up on them...

[+sbell111]

As a newbie, it seems to me a lot of this can be solved by an addition to the rating system

 

Scenic vs. Non-scenic...

The problem is, some people's opinion of 'scenic' will be different than that of others. Also, some really good caches are in locations that are not necessarily 'scenic'. Edited May 15, 2007 by sbell111

[+Renegade Knight]

...Based on my own observations during these many decades among my fellow primates, it always seems to me that the members of any group who talk and behave as if they are 'above' or 'superior to' others – based on some real or perceived seniority, social standing or other measure of worthiness – almost always seem to harbor some sub- or un-conscious struggle with their own perceived lack of self worth....Amateur Psychologist, Mediocre Poet, Semi–safe Pilot, Inferior Cacher[/i]

 

Good point.

 

I'll add that another issue, is that some people can't screw up the courage to just walk up into a group a group and start participating. Sometimes the reasons why are perceived elitism when it's just cold feet. Sometimes they really have been snubbed. There are a lot of variables.

[+LivesWithMonkeys]

As a newbie, it seems to me a lot of this can be solved by an addition to the rating system

 

Scenic vs. Non-scenic...

The problem is, some people's opinion of 'scenic' will be different than that of others. Also, some really good caches are in locations that are not necessarily 'scenic'.

 

I imagine the answer is of course subjective, but what makes a cache "good"? I, of course, would say a good one is one that leads me to a cool/scenic place. My kids would like ones with goodies (and of course that they found it before their sibling). How do you define a cache as good?

 

EDIT: And I doubt many people would vote the dumpster/behind strip mall/lamp post as scenic

Edited May 15, 2007 by LivesWithMonkeys

[+TrailGators]

I think that there are many people that are not "elitists" and get tagged for no reason. Why do people need to tag others in the first place? So I think there is some insecurity having that need. I also think that if people got to know each other they would realize that very few people actually think they are better than someone else because they've played a game longer or found more caches. I really think a lot of this BS comes from people trying to measure themselves against others. To be honest I could really care less about how long or how much or any of that garbage. The point of all of this is to have fun.

[+egami]

As a newbie, it seems to me a lot of this can be solved by an addition to the rating system

 

Scenic vs. Non-scenic...

The problem is, some people's opinion of 'scenic' will be different than that of others. Also, some really good caches are in locations that are not necessarily 'scenic'.

 

I imagine the answer is of course subjective, but what makes a cache "good"? I, of course, would say a good one is one that leads me to a cool/scenic place. My kids would like ones with goodies (and of course that they found it before their sibling). How do you define a cache as good?

 

EDIT: And I doubt many people would vote the dumpster/behind strip mall/lamp post as scenic

 

Completely subjective, yes.

[+Renegade Knight]

...EDIT: And I doubt many people would vote the dumpster/behind strip mall/lamp post as scenic

Depends on the mall, depends on the dumpster, depends on the cache, depends on the homeless camp 30' from the dumpster.

Maybe not scenic in the classic sence but I enjoy discovering urban slag zones as much as I enjoy discovering views.

 

I like knowing about all of the world I live in. Not just the Poscard Perfect parts.

Edited May 15, 2007 by Renegade Knight

[+briansnat]

Several people have said "don't like the direction the sport is heading" but not offering what direction they think it is going or even where it came from...could somebody please expand on this idea?

I'm sure the old timers from football would have thought helmets and padding were the wrong direction for that sport to go in..lol...

 

See my earlier post in this thread.

[+egami]

I think that there are many people that are not "elitists" and get tagged for no reason. Why do people need to tag others in the first place? So I think there is some insecurity having that need.

 

This is interesting...someone mentioned earlier that elitists themselves were insecure. Now you mention that people labeling others as elitists are insecure. Neither idea which I would fully ascribe to.

 

On your point, however, labels are really just a fact of life...labeling someone doesn't automatically make one insecure. We all do it in some fashion. Some labels are just more socially acceptable than others.

 

I also think that if people got to know each other they would realize that very few people actually think they are better than someone else because they've played a game longer or found more caches. I really think a lot of this BS comes from people trying to measure themselves against others. To be honest I could really care less about how long or how much or any of that garbage. The point of all of this is to have fun.

 

This is probably true. Most people probably aren't that way deliberately...many probably come off this way unintentionally. I don't know it's so much a means of measuring themselves as much as it is trying to figure out the dynamics that are part of a social situation that seems somewhat complex to them.

[+LivesWithMonkeys]

...EDIT: And I doubt many people would vote the dumpster/behind strip mall/lamp post as scenic

Depends on the mall, depends on the dumpster, depends on the cache, depends on the homeless camp 30' from the dumpster.

Maybe not scenic in the classic sence but I enjoy discovering urban slag zones as much as I enjoy discovering views.

 

I like knowing about all of the world I live in. Not just the Poscard Perfect parts.

I see your point, however, I think you may find this opinion to be more the exception then the rule. With a rating scale, say of 1 to 5 (1 being least scenic and 5 being most scenic), after enough finders have voted then general concensus of the site will come to light.

 

As for urban blight, living in Detroit, I'll be sure to find some good caching spots, just for you. Difficulty level 6 terrain (Flak jacket required)

[Entrepid]

Okay, on the topic of micro caches, I think that these do count as real caches. Otherwise, there could not be caches hidden in urban areas, right? And what about me? i'm too young to drive, so I can't get around that much. There are several micro caches hidden around, and I like to find these. Now, I will meet you halfway: It would be nice to see more item caches hidden around, because those are find to find and do require a little more skill than usual. As for the geeky cachers, I really don't care. Everyone needs to spend a little time outside, and you need to know how to cache with the basic equipment. But otherwise, I realy don';t care. it's up too the individual to deside. Some people just don't like the woods, while others like the stealth it requires to nab an urban cache. Oh, and those "old school cachers" as you were talking about, rot. They give geocaching a bad name. They think they are the "real" cachers. Yeah. Right. I guess I missed the part on the website that says to be a cacher, you need to be a jerk.

Edited May 15, 2007 by Entrepid

[+egami]

...EDIT: And I doubt many people would vote the dumpster/behind strip mall/lamp post as scenic

Depends on the mall, depends on the dumpster, depends on the cache, depends on the homeless camp 30' from the dumpster.

Maybe not scenic in the classic sence but I enjoy discovering urban slag zones as much as I enjoy discovering views.

 

I like knowing about all of the world I live in. Not just the Poscard Perfect parts.

I see your point, however, I think you may find this opinion to be more the exception then the rule. With a rating scale, say of 1 to 5 (1 being least scenic and 5 being most scenic), after enough finders have voted then general concensus of the site will come to light.

 

As for urban blight, living in Detroit, I'll be sure to find some good caching spots, just for you. Difficulty level 6 terrain (Flak jacket required)

 

I've thought of this myself in the past, but it'd really require a more in depth review of the cache site to be truly useful to me.

 

A simple 1 to 5 rating of scenery wouldn't really affect the way I approach a cache, personally. I'd be more interested in other attributes.

 

And even then...a rating system is still completely subjective. I can usually tell when I need to know from the logs.

[+briansnat]

I think that there are many people that are not "elitists" and get tagged for no reason.

 

I'm elitist simply because I'm better than everybody else.

[+TrailGators]

I think that there are many people that are not "elitists" and get tagged for no reason.

 

I'm elitist simply because I'm better than everybody else.

Except me of course.....

[+LivesWithMonkeys]

I think that there are many people that are not "elitists" and get tagged for no reason.

 

I'm elitist simply because I'm better than everybody else.

Except, of course, ME

 

Daang!! Trail Gators beat me to it. But I am better than him too.

Edited May 15, 2007 by LivesWithMonkeys

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

I think that there are many people that are not "elitists" and get tagged for no reason.

 

I'm elitist simply because I'm better than everybody else.

Same here. That is a no-brainer.

[+LivesWithMonkeys]

I think that there are many people that are not "elitists" and get tagged for no reason.

 

I'm elitist simply because I'm better than everybody else.

Same here. That is a no-brainer.

Well, I'm more elite than elitist. I will be more than happy to socialize with you lesser folks. If I didn't. i would have to spend my life alone.

[+briansnat]

By the way, if anyone ever meets me at an event and I'm talking mostly to people I already know, it's more because I'm kind of shy than b/c im not friendly

I am in your area and I look forward to meeting you at an event. Shyness be damned. I'm very outgoing and friendly. No, really! I don't care who you are (and I'm using the collective "you") or what kind of caching you believe in, if you're within eyesight and earshot of me, I'm talking to you. I talk to everyone.

 

Although I've only been to one event so far, I do believe I scared a few folks with my forwardness. Fo shiz.

 

Yeah, I didn't stop running for three days!

[+rhelt100]

I had a long post typed but then asked myself why. It's not worth it. You seem more interested in getting a few people to come to your pity party than actual enjoy the events. Here are the facts as I see them.

 

You attended and event sponsored by a group that you had preconceived disdain for, even though you had no dealings with the group. You had dealings with one person from the group in a forum, and used this to judge us all. You made no attempt to speak with anyone, but instead made it that we wouldn't accept you because you log events a whole bunch of times for smilies and stats. You came here and took pot shots at the group, the members, and our actions by calling us elitists and such. Now you have decided who I am and how I will react in further events with you in attendance.

 

 

Seems like you've gone past the arguing stage into the throwing insults stage. I'm not gonna go that route. I'll just rehash what I've already said a few times, please read it so we can move past this same argument.

 

I have already admitted that I had some "preconceived disdain" and have stated that I regret having done so. Next time I meet any of you, this will not be the case.

 

I did make an effort to speak to one of you. To be honest, the impression I got was "who the hell is this guy?" Whether or not that is the impression that was meant to be passed on to me, I honestly don't know. I've already stated that I was probably not in a great state to deal with people anyways since I was beat from miles of hiking and dehydrated with no drinks present at the event yet. So, it's very possible that I was irritable and misread the situation.

 

I've also already stated that despite the tone that was in my original post, I really did not intend to insult anybody. I was actually kind of hoping the result of the post would be getting to know some of you in the future. I know sometimes when I'm with a group of good friends, I ignore people I don't know and don't even realize I'm doing it.

 

I'm pretty new to the sport, relative to most of TRIGO, and I have seen the names of many of the members mentioned all over the place. Quest Master is a good example. I have seen that name everywhere and he's almost a legendary cacher to me if that makes any sense. I guess I went about it the wrong way, but believe it or not, that was the actual intention.

 

Honestly, I guess I was kind of irritated because I really did want to meet several of you. I just didn't feel welcome in the group. Maybe that was me not understanding the situation.

 

 

Yeah I think logging events multiple times is a joke those actions are usually committed by people who were picked last in gym class and need to feel like a winner in some other area. That's my opinion and you will not change that. If I choose to sit and laugh at an event with some thers that know, isn't that my right? Do I need to stay away from these people and only talk to people I don't know? Guess what. 3 years ago I knew none of them, and now look at us. We are such good friends that we are confused easily with elitists and such. Maybe you should try it sometime instead of coming here crying that noone likes you. Gimmie a break.

 

 

FYI, I don't recall ever being picked last in gym class, but I have always been very competitive. I'll freely admit that I am a numbers cacher to a point, but I also truly enjoy long scenic hikes in the woods. I'm sort of a middle of the road cacher I guess. There is another local cacher that I try to stay ahead of on the find count and that little rivalry actually does compel me to get out and find caches.

 

I'm also not crying that nobody likes me. I have many friends that I've met through geocaching and I get out caching with several of them a few times a month. Seems like you're kind of wanting to jump to conclusions here and throw insults at me. I won't be returning the favor.

[+Moose Mob]

<snip>

I'll freely admit that I am a numbers cacher to a point, but I also truly enjoy long scenic hikes in the woods. <snip>

I would think this as being among a the vast majority of the caching populus, not what you may here from the vocal minority.

[+JamGuys]

 

The OP started a thread to complain about something that just is skewed and one sided. It has turned from pity party, to debate about how the caching game has devolved, to anything else random that anyone wants to say. Most other threads get closed at this point, maybe it is time for this one as well. The OP has his chance to complain and take some shots at the group we all love to hate. What's left now?

 

 

I'll say again since you must be skipping my posts by now...I don't hate any of you. I perceived something I did not like and after debating whether to do so or not for a few weeks, I voiced it. Should I meet you at an event in the near future, I will walk up and introduce myself and try to show you that I'm not the a-hole you think I am. If you want to be friendly back at me...then we'll chat awhile and go caching. Otherwise, oh well, I'm still gonna try.

 

Judging from the responses so far, it seems to me that, for better or worse, the OP struck more than a few nerves with his original post. However, after reading the entire thread so far, it does appear to me that he has admitted to a few failings of his own and is extending the hand of friendship. Why don't you guys let bygones be bygones and really get together at Cracker Barrel - the pot roast really melts in your mouth and the biscuits are to die for!

[+egami]

 

The OP started a thread to complain about something that just is skewed and one sided. It has turned from pity party, to debate about how the caching game has devolved, to anything else random that anyone wants to say. Most other threads get closed at this point, maybe it is time for this one as well. The OP has his chance to complain and take some shots at the group we all love to hate. What's left now?

 

 

I'll say again since you must be skipping my posts by now...I don't hate any of you. I perceived something I did not like and after debating whether to do so or not for a few weeks, I voiced it. Should I meet you at an event in the near future, I will walk up and introduce myself and try to show you that I'm not the a-hole you think I am. If you want to be friendly back at me...then we'll chat awhile and go caching. Otherwise, oh well, I'm still gonna try.

 

Judging from the responses so far, it seems to me that, for better or worse, the OP struck more than a few nerves with his original post. However, after reading the entire thread so far, it does appear to me that he has admitted to a few failings of his own and is extending the hand of friendship. Why don't you guys let bygones be bygones and really get together at Cracker Barrel - the pot roast really melts in your mouth and the biscuits are to die for!

 

rhelt100 is the OP.

[+K9 GEEP]

I read the OP's post as being more about social behavior than about geocaching. I see little to no clique behavior here in Florida. Though naturally, folks that have been caching 3 or 4 years and have known each other over time are gathering in groups at events, and novices are a tad on the outside.

Most events and event hosts work to create mixing and inclusion.

 

But there's no hike/ anti-micro factions, and no cliques. I think you've just got a local phenomenon. I have seen cliques big time in the horse show circles. I suspect it has to do with local leadership. It can happen in any type of activity. Or NOT. I'm sorry you're experiencing it there.

Much in alignment with the thoughts aired by Isonzo Karst above, I strongly suspect that the behavior you observed was very comonplace behavior commonly encountered in and across tens of thousands of venues each day, most of them located well outside the realm of geocaching (and certainly outside the realm of antio-micro discussions), and I suspect as well that the behaviors which you observed (i.e., temporarily ignoring a newcomer) had little or nothing to do with the content of the discusion which was underway at the time (i.e., loud, good-natured and boisterous derision of lame urban micros and of numbers-game-related behaviors) and rather, EVERYTHING to do with human nature and with patterns of human nature which have been observed and commented upon my social psychologists as well as by anthropologists and linguists (social linguists, that is) for over a hundred years. It is simply a fact of human nature and of some of the traits exhibited by most Western cultures that people who already know each other sometimes tend to cluster together and talk about topics which are intimately familiar to them. What you are railing about has little to do with the happenstance content of the conversation of that particular group of cachers that day, and rather, has a lot to do with behavior of humans when in the presence of others who are "in members" of their intimate linguistic community while temporarily excluding those persons who were as yet non-members of their intimate linquistic community. In fact, you can see the same behavior a hundred times an hour among audience members at any sports game frequented by "regulars" and in any bar or pub which is largely, but not solely, frequented by "regulars", meaning the inner "in" members of the intimate linquistic community.

 

To the OP, sorry about this obvious attempt to pop your ballon (that is the thesis aired in your first post), but I was feeling particularly pompous this afternoon and felt an innate need, after reading your post and its assertions, to kinda reframe things in a much larger and more wholistic framework. In any case, it is also true that your observation of a single occurrence exhibited by these (your terms) old-line anti-lame-micro cachers hardly provides sufficient cause to generalize to the behaviors of all anti-lame-micro cachers at all events.

 

BTW, I tend to also dislike lame urban micros (LUMS) and also MicroSpew, and I also tend to laugh with great joyous derision and amusement at the inane antics pulled by many higher-numbers (that is, over about 800 finds) geocachers (many of whom are geo-friends of mine and will continue to be so, by the way...), and yet, strangely, I have received several compliments from newcomers to caching at what they perceived as my warmth and inclusiveness to them at local geo events over the years. Go figure. According to your shaky thesis, I shoulda ignored those newcomers when they showed their faces at the event in question.

 

 

I must agree that Vinny and Sue are warm people and very welcoming to newcomers at events

That being said the first event I went to i had around 20 finds the event was a cito and as I helped clean i overheard others making fun of us for being there until I confronted them (in a nice way) and told them some of the finds I had made then all of a sudden they were very nice, at that point I did not even know about LPCs.

 

P.S. be sure to pick up the new book with a interview with Vinny and Sue I can not remember the name of it but it is a good read

[+rhelt100]

Why don't you guys let bygones be bygones and really get together at Cracker Barrel - the pot roast really melts in your mouth and the biscuits are to die for!

 

 

Sorry but pot roast and biscuits will never happen. I've been to cracker barrel probably a dozen times and I've never moved past the breakfast. It's just too good.

[+D@nim@l]

Why don't you guys let bygones be bygones and really get together at Cracker Barrel - the pot roast really melts in your mouth and the biscuits are to die for!

 

Sorry but pot roast and biscuits will never happen. I've been to cracker barrel probably a dozen times and I've never moved past the breakfast. It's just too good.

 

You really should try the MoonPies.

[+rhelt100]

Why don't you guys let bygones be bygones and really get together at Cracker Barrel - the pot roast really melts in your mouth and the biscuits are to die for!

 

Sorry but pot roast and biscuits will never happen. I've been to cracker barrel probably a dozen times and I've never moved past the breakfast. It's just too good.

 

You really should try the MoonPies.

 

 

Yep, I heard the audio recorded at that event on podcacher. They sell moonpies at the corner store near my work, but I've never actually tried one.

Edited May 15, 2007 by rhelt100

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

I read the OP's post as being more about social behavior than about geocaching. I see little to no clique behavior here in Florida. Though naturally, folks that have been caching 3 or 4 years and have known each other over time are gathering in groups at events, and novices are a tad on the outside.

Most events and event hosts work to create mixing and inclusion.

 

But there's no hike/ anti-micro factions, and no cliques. I think you've just got a local phenomenon. I have seen cliques big time in the horse show circles. I suspect it has to do with local leadership. It can happen in any type of activity. Or NOT. I'm sorry you're experiencing it there.

Much in alignment with the thoughts aired by Isonzo Karst above, I strongly suspect that the behavior you observed was very comonplace behavior commonly encountered in and across tens of thousands of venues each day, most of them located well outside the realm of geocaching (and certainly outside the realm of antio-micro discussions), and I suspect as well that the behaviors which you observed (i.e., temporarily ignoring a newcomer) had little or nothing to do with the content of the discusion which was underway at the time (i.e., loud, good-natured and boisterous derision of lame urban micros and of numbers-game-related behaviors) and rather, EVERYTHING to do with human nature and with patterns of human nature which have been observed and commented upon my social psychologists as well as by anthropologists and linguists (social linguists, that is) for over a hundred years. It is simply a fact of human nature and of some of the traits exhibited by most Western cultures that people who already know each other sometimes tend to cluster together and talk about topics which are intimately familiar to them. What you are railing about has little to do with the happenstance content of the conversation of that particular group of cachers that day, and rather, has a lot to do with behavior of humans when in the presence of others who are "in members" of their intimate linguistic community while temporarily excluding those persons who were as yet non-members of their intimate linquistic community. In fact, you can see the same behavior a hundred times an hour among audience members at any sports game frequented by "regulars" and in any bar or pub which is largely, but not solely, frequented by "regulars", meaning the inner "in" members of the intimate linquistic community.

 

To the OP, sorry about this obvious attempt to pop your ballon (that is the thesis aired in your first post), but I was feeling particularly pompous this afternoon and felt an innate need, after reading your post and its assertions, to kinda reframe things in a much larger and more wholistic framework. In any case, it is also true that your observation of a single occurrence exhibited by these (your terms) old-line anti-lame-micro cachers hardly provides sufficient cause to generalize to the behaviors of all anti-lame-micro cachers at all events.

 

BTW, I tend to also dislike lame urban micros (LUMS) and also MicroSpew, and I also tend to laugh with great joyous derision and amusement at the inane antics pulled by many higher-numbers (that is, over about 800 finds) geocachers (many of whom are geo-friends of mine and will continue to be so, by the way...), and yet, strangely, I have received several compliments from newcomers to caching at what they perceived as my warmth and inclusiveness to them at local geo events over the years. Go figure. According to your shaky thesis, I shoulda ignored those newcomers when they showed their faces at the event in question.

 

I must agree that Vinny and Sue are warm people and very welcoming to newcomers at events...

 

P.S. be sure to pick up the new book with a interview with Vinny and Sue I can not remember the name of it but it is a good read

Aww! Thanks for the kind words! In order to better maintain the myth and legend of "Vinny, the bizarre reclusive extreme Psycho cache placer guy", I rarely attend geo-events (I limit myself to three or fewer per year on the advice of my Hollywood publicist), but I do remember meeting you at the Hagerstown pizza event. Thank you for coming over and speaking with me as I gorged myself on cheap high-carb pizza, and, if I recall corectly, your adult son later logged one or two of our Psycho caches, or at least sent us a note about them.

 

And yes, the book was quite fun; it was called "Open Your Heart With Geocaching", and I have bumped the thread (here on the international GC forums) about the book in case anyone wishes to see that thread.

 

[+Renegade Knight]

...I see your point, however, I think you may find this opinion to be more the exception then the rule. With a rating scale, say of 1 to 5 (1 being least scenic and 5 being most scenic), after enough finders have voted then general concensus of the site will come to light.

 

As for urban blight, living in Detroit, I'll be sure to find some good caching spots, just for you. Difficulty level 6 terrain (Flak jacket required)

 

Cache ratings need to be useful. The more useful you make them the more information they tend to take which makes it harder to leave a rating. In turn that would make them not well used. It's a Catch 22 but has a couple of bright spots.

 

Also, Industrial Slag, and Urban Blight are very different in my book. I like abandoned industrial facilites, but going places where I have to wear a flak jacket no thanks. Hook me up when they all move when the nearby nuclear facility radiates the neighborhood. Just like Chernoble.

[Mr.Yuck]

Why don't you guys let bygones be bygones and really get together at Cracker Barrel - the pot roast really melts in your mouth and the biscuits are to die for!

 

Sorry but pot roast and biscuits will never happen. I've been to cracker barrel probably a dozen times and I've never moved past the breakfast. It's just too good.

 

You really should try the MoonPies.

 

 

Yep, I heard the audio recorded at that event on podcacher. They sell moonpies at the corner store near my work, but I've never actually tried one.

 

While at CB, you may even run into the mysterious Moon Pie Cacher

[+K9 GEEP]

I read the OP's post as being more about social behavior than about geocaching. I see little to no clique behavior here in Florida. Though naturally, folks that have been caching 3 or 4 years and have known each other over time are gathering in groups at events, and novices are a tad on the outside.

Most events and event hosts work to create mixing and inclusion.

 

But there's no hike/ anti-micro factions, and no cliques. I think you've just got a local phenomenon. I have seen cliques big time in the horse show circles. I suspect it has to do with local leadership. It can happen in any type of activity. Or NOT. I'm sorry you're experiencing it there.

Much in alignment with the thoughts aired by Isonzo Karst above, I strongly suspect that the behavior you observed was very comonplace behavior commonly encountered in and across tens of thousands of venues each day, most of them located well outside the realm of geocaching (and certainly outside the realm of antio-micro discussions), and I suspect as well that the behaviors which you observed (i.e., temporarily ignoring a newcomer) had little or nothing to do with the content of the discusion which was underway at the time (i.e., loud, good-natured and boisterous derision of lame urban micros and of numbers-game-related behaviors) and rather, EVERYTHING to do with human nature and with patterns of human nature which have been observed and commented upon my social psychologists as well as by anthropologists and linguists (social linguists, that is) for over a hundred years. It is simply a fact of human nature and of some of the traits exhibited by most Western cultures that people who already know each other sometimes tend to cluster together and talk about topics which are intimately familiar to them. What you are railing about has little to do with the happenstance content of the conversation of that particular group of cachers that day, and rather, has a lot to do with behavior of humans when in the presence of others who are "in members" of their intimate linguistic community while temporarily excluding those persons who were as yet non-members of their intimate linquistic community. In fact, you can see the same behavior a hundred times an hour among audience members at any sports game frequented by "regulars" and in any bar or pub which is largely, but not solely, frequented by "regulars", meaning the inner "in" members of the intimate linquistic community.

 

To the OP, sorry about this obvious attempt to pop your ballon (that is the thesis aired in your first post), but I was feeling particularly pompous this afternoon and felt an innate need, after reading your post and its assertions, to kinda reframe things in a much larger and more wholistic framework. In any case, it is also true that your observation of a single occurrence exhibited by these (your terms) old-line anti-lame-micro cachers hardly provides sufficient cause to generalize to the behaviors of all anti-lame-micro cachers at all events.

 

BTW, I tend to also dislike lame urban micros (LUMS) and also MicroSpew, and I also tend to laugh with great joyous derision and amusement at the inane antics pulled by many higher-numbers (that is, over about 800 finds) geocachers (many of whom are geo-friends of mine and will continue to be so, by the way...), and yet, strangely, I have received several compliments from newcomers to caching at what they perceived as my warmth and inclusiveness to them at local geo events over the years. Go figure. According to your shaky thesis, I shoulda ignored those newcomers when they showed their faces at the event in question.

 

I must agree that Vinny and Sue are warm people and very welcoming to newcomers at events...

 

P.S. be sure to pick up the new book with a interview with Vinny and Sue I can not remember the name of it but it is a good read

Aww! Thanks for the kind words! In order to better maintain the myth and legend of "Vinny, the bizarre reclusive extreme Psycho cache placer guy", I rarely attend geo-events (I limit myself to three or fewer per year on the advice of my Hollywood publicist), but I do remember meeting you at the Hagerstown pizza event. Thank you for coming over and speaking with me as I gorged myself on cheap high-carb pizza, and, if I recall corectly, your adult son later logged one or two of our Psycho caches, or at least sent us a note about them.

 

And yes, the book was quite fun; it was called "Open Your Heart With Geocaching", and I have bumped the thread (here on the international GC forums) about the book in case anyone wishes to see that thread.

 

 

Nope not me

I think I met you at a novago event just a few weeks ago I had the small baby in the stroller I have no adult children (that I know of)

[+CheshireFrog]

So, I have this vision of how things might have progressed in a situation like this. Let me run a scenario by you and see if it sounds right.

 

Cacher A has, in the past, logged multiple events to match the number of caches he found at said events. At some point Cacher A engages in a debate with Cacher B in the Echo Chamber Forum about the honesty of such an act, and feelings get hurt.

 

Fast forward to an event at an unspecified future date. Cacher A attends the event and finds Cachers B, C, D and E talking and laughing together. Cacher B recognizes Cacher A as one of those people who log mutiple event caches, and the group launches into a discussion of what they think about those people loud enough to be heard and for the benefit of Cacher A. Feelings are hurt again, so naturally there must be more whining discussion in the Echo Chamber Forum.

 

I dunno, it just seems like I've seen/read this before.

Edited May 15, 2007 by CheshireFrog

[+Ambrosia]

Wow. This thread was actually starting to go in a better direction there for a few minutes.

[+D@nim@l]

So, I have this vision of how things might have progressed in a situation like this. Let me run a scenario by you and see if it sounds right.

 

Cacher A has, in the past, logged multiple events to match the number of caches he found at said events. At some point Cacher A engages in a debate with Cacher B in the Echo Chamber Forum about the honesty of such an act, and feelings get hurt.

 

Fast forward to an event at an unspecified future date. Cacher A attends the event and finds Cachers B, C, D and E talking and laughing together. Cacher B recognizes Cacher A as one of those people who log mutiple event caches, and the group launches into a discussion of what they think about those people loud enough to be heard and for the benefit of Cacher A. Feelings are hurt again, so naturally there must be more whining discussion in the Echo Chamber Forum.

 

I dunno, it just seems like I've seen/read this before.

 

Cacher B is likely guilty of the first part, but I am pretty sure Cacher B is not guilty of the second because his wife was with him and he had a sick dog at home and didn't stay but only a few minutes afterward to drop off a travel bug and hand in his forms. Cacher B doesn't recall bumping into, blowing off or otherwise ignoring Cacher A. So I don't know what that does for the second part of this theory.

 

We do know that Cachers A and B do like Cracker Barrel (for various reasons) and podcacher.com. I also would go as far to say that the only thing that is "elite" about Cacher B is his ability to get himself banned from the forums.

Edited May 15, 2007 by D@nim@l

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

I gotta say that I've never had an experience like that at an Event, does that mean that I'm part of the problem, I'm not sure. If you get a chance, try attending an event away from your home area, and see if you get the same situation.

[+Ambrosia]

I gotta say that I've never had an experience like that at an Event, does that mean that I'm part of the problem, I'm not sure. If you get a chance, try attending an event away from your home area, and see if you get the same situation.

Ditto. Come to an event in Washington.

[Sadie]

I gotta say that I've never had an experience like that at an Event, does that mean that I'm part of the problem, I'm not sure. If you get a chance, try attending an event away from your home area, and see if you get the same situation.

No, these situations are very rare and not typical of a normal cache event. The OP's discussion mentioned some very vocal microphobic cachers in that area who seem to have a narrow vision on what geocaching is all about. That is not the perspective of your normal "cache and let cache" attendee.

Edited May 15, 2007 by Sadie

[+Thrak]

Our local group N.U.T.S. (Northstate Unusual Treasure Seekers) has folks who run the gamut from occasional seekers, major numbers gatherers, occasional hiders, mass micro hiders, older people, younger people, middle aged people, kids, Catholics, Mormons, Baptists, etc. You name it and we've likely got it. We all get along and nobody shuns anybody else. Once in a while we have an event and, if anybody sees someone hanging back because they don't know anybody else, any one of the above mentioned folks is likely to check them out and find out who they are and introduce them around. The event host will probably do a public introduction and some folks with offer to take them out and show them the ropes.

 

I think we have a GREAT group of local cachers. It's sad that you seem to have issues in your area. Just try to shine it on and have a good time in spite of them and, of course, continue to make contact with those shy or slightly lost cachers who don't seem to know anybody.

 

I look for micros - heck, I tend to look for most caches without discrimination. I've found my share of lame caches but I've also found a few micros that totally rocked. One of them was a guardrail micro. One of these days I'm going to file the serial numbers off of it and re-create it in my area for the local folks to find. I think they'll like it a lot. I already have another guardrail cache that gets very good reviews from folks.

 

Having said that, I love a good hike to a great view. I did one in Idaho that I thought was great and another one while camping last year at Hole In The Ground campground on Mill Creek here in California. (There's an 18 mile trail from there to Black Rock. No, I didn't do the entire hike!) There are also a few good hiking caches here in my area. We have one of the largest city parks in the country so there's room for that type of cache. (I do wonder why folks will put a micro at the end of a long hike in the hills though.....)

 

Some folks never go for the hiking caches. Heck, one of our local cachers had BOTH hips replaced last year. Since he's been able to get around again he's doing lots of those caches that some people scorn and is having a ball. Someday he may be able to do moderate hiking caches again but, for now, it's great that there are others he can look for. Folks need to remember that not everybody can do an 8 mile hike up a hill or even a 1 mile round trip on relatively flat ground.

[+D@nim@l]

I gotta say that I've never had an experience like that at an Event, does that mean that I'm part of the problem, I'm not sure. If you get a chance, try attending an event away from your home area, and see if you get the same situation.

...microphobic cachers...

 

I prefer the term "pro-ammo can"

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

I read the OP's post as being more about social behavior than about geocaching. I see little to no clique behavior here in Florida. Though naturally, folks that have been caching 3 or 4 years and have known each other over time are gathering in groups at events, and novices are a tad on the outside.

Most events and event hosts work to create mixing and inclusion.

 

But there's no hike/ anti-micro factions, and no cliques. I think you've just got a local phenomenon. I have seen cliques big time in the horse show circles. I suspect it has to do with local leadership. It can happen in any type of activity. Or NOT. I'm sorry you're experiencing it there.

Much in alignment with the thoughts aired by Isonzo Karst above, I strongly suspect that the behavior you observed was very comonplace behavior commonly encountered in and across tens of thousands of venues each day, most of them located well outside the realm of geocaching (and certainly outside the realm of antio-micro discussions), and I suspect as well that the behaviors which you observed (i.e., temporarily ignoring a newcomer) had little or nothing to do with the content of the discusion which was underway at the time (i.e., loud, good-natured and boisterous derision of lame urban micros and of numbers-game-related behaviors) and rather, EVERYTHING to do with human nature and with patterns of human nature which have been observed and commented upon my social psychologists as well as by anthropologists and linguists (social linguists, that is) for over a hundred years. It is simply a fact of human nature and of some of the traits exhibited by most Western cultures that people who already know each other sometimes tend to cluster together and talk about topics which are intimately familiar to them. What you are railing about has little to do with the happenstance content of the conversation of that particular group of cachers that day, and rather, has a lot to do with behavior of humans when in the presence of others who are "in members" of their intimate linguistic community while temporarily excluding those persons who were as yet non-members of their intimate linquistic community. In fact, you can see the same behavior a hundred times an hour among audience members at any sports game frequented by "regulars" and in any bar or pub which is largely, but not solely, frequented by "regulars", meaning the inner "in" members of the intimate linquistic community.

 

To the OP, sorry about this obvious attempt to pop your ballon (that is the thesis aired in your first post), but I was feeling particularly pompous this afternoon and felt an innate need, after reading your post and its assertions, to kinda reframe things in a much larger and more wholistic framework. In any case, it is also true that your observation of a single occurrence exhibited by these (your terms) old-line anti-lame-micro cachers hardly provides sufficient cause to generalize to the behaviors of all anti-lame-micro cachers at all events.

 

BTW, I tend to also dislike lame urban micros (LUMS) and also MicroSpew, and I also tend to laugh with great joyous derision and amusement at the inane antics pulled by many higher-numbers (that is, over about 800 finds) geocachers (many of whom are geo-friends of mine and will continue to be so, by the way...), and yet, strangely, I have received several compliments from newcomers to caching at what they perceived as my warmth and inclusiveness to them at local geo events over the years. Go figure. According to your shaky thesis, I shoulda ignored those newcomers when they showed their faces at the event in question.

 

I must agree that Vinny and Sue are warm people and very welcoming to newcomers at events...

 

P.S. be sure to pick up the new book with a interview with Vinny and Sue I can not remember the name of it but it is a good read

Aww! Thanks for the kind words! In order to better maintain the myth and legend of "Vinny, the bizarre reclusive extreme Psycho cache placer guy", I rarely attend geo-events (I limit myself to three or fewer per year on the advice of my Hollywood publicist), but I do remember meeting you at the Hagerstown pizza event. Thank you for coming over and speaking with me as I gorged myself on cheap high-carb pizza, and, if I recall corectly, your adult son later logged one or two of our Psycho caches, or at least sent us a note about them.

 

And yes, the book was quite fun; it was called "Open Your Heart With Geocaching", and I have bumped the thread (here on the international GC forums) about the book in case anyone wishes to see that thread.

Nope not me

I think I met you at a novago event just a few weeks ago I had the small baby in the stroller I have no adult children (that I know of)

Aha! Then the person whom you met from our team was my wife Sue. I did not attend the NoVaGo event, and, in fact, I have never attended any VA geo events, due in part to geopolitical boundary-based intellectual property clauses in my in my licensing agreement with Maryland Geocaching Society (MGS), whereby I am limited to public appearances only at MGS events and at national events and regional events in Michigan, Wisconsin and beyond. Its all legal mumbo-jumbo to me, but my agents track it for me. As Paris Hilton said to the judge the other day: "I don't read that stuff... I have people who read those things for me....!"

Edited May 15, 2007 by Vinny & Sue Team

[+K9 GEEP]

Aha! Then the person whom you met from our team was my wife Sue. I did not attend the NoVaGo event, and, in fact, I have never attended any VA geo events, due in part to geopolitical boundary-based intellectual property clauses in my in my licensing agreement with Maryland Geocaching Society (MGS), whereby I am limited to public appearances only at MGS events and at national events and regional events in Michigan, Wisconsin and beyond. Its all legal mumbo-jumbo to me, but my agents track it for me. As Paris Hilton said to the judge the other day: "I don't read that stuff... I have people who read those things for me....!"

 

That is the problem <sarcasm I don't really mean it> with the husband and wife teams in the forums I never know who I am talking to.

Good thing Mrs k9 never posts

yes it was sue I met and she a lovely and polite lady<not sarcasm> and took great pride in showing off the interview <sarcasm again she was very modest about it.>