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GOT MUGGED!


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I'm sorry that this happend to you and I hope that your ankle is ok.

I also do coin hunting, I have been shot at (On public property), I have been followed, My truck has been broken into and the last straw was when 2 guys tryed to rob me. I now have 9mm reasons for them not to bother me. Its sad that things like this happen but you have to take care of your self and those who are with you.

With the moble crack labs you never know what you might walk into. I think this is what was going on when we were shot at.

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It's always sorry to hear about stuff like this.

 

Since you live in NY and apearantly can't even have pepper-spray (which BTW is awesome even agaist a crowd with the good stuff), I'd suggest a good walking staff (not those yuppie treking poles) and finding some RenFaire or SCA people that can teach you how to use it as a quarterstaff.

 

I carry one pretty much anytime I leave the pavement. As a walking aid it takes some weight off your legs and makes going over rough terrain easier. It is useful for poking through weeds when searching for a cache. Then in a pinch it makes a pretty darn good weapon. I've never used mine against a human outside of sparing, but I did have to intimidate a black bear that thought I was after it's blackberries once.

 

AK

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Remember in the case in question it was one against a group, which is pretty long odds, even with full strength pepper spray. I was taught in karate lessons a long time ago, that the wisest course of action was to retreat if possible and to fight as a last recourse. Taking on a group to protect you GPS would be lunacy.

 

Yeah... you ASSUME they are only wishing to take the GPS. One only can hope that the mob wants only whatever gizmo or cash you are carrying - and not more from you than that. Hope is only a feeling, it's not a defense. If you a guy though, chances are that your gizmo and/or your wallet all you have to worry about.

 

If you are female, you are better off learning how to fight, carry a weapon, and be ready to use it. I am female, and already have defended myself successfully with a knife once some years ago. Now I have pepper spray also as a distance weapon, and I hope that I will never need to use it.

 

I'm not saying that people should not be prepared to defend themselves, I believe that everyone should be prepared to defend themselves. The point in question is when do you make the decision to fight.

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Wow, thanks again everyone for all the support, well-wishes, and opinions.

 

Expedition101: I forgot to mention in my previous reply that this was daylight, around 7pm. I've lived in NY long enough to know not be be in the parks at night. I really do hope that this is an isolated series of incidents. I imagine at the very least there will be an increased police presence up there for a while - the cops really seemed to be taking it VERY seriously. In your new log for the page you said

 

I am very upset that this happened -- it is the first such incident reported in the log. In my experience, the park is very safe and full of people during the daytime, and I do walk-by's with my baby daughter all the time. Still, please be careful. There are a number of places to enter/exit the park south of the cache, if the 116th stret staircase ever presents a problem again.

 

I feel I should point out that the kids went south after attacking me, and the cops picked them up (assuming they got the right kids) at the next exit south. I'm not trying to scare anyone, just sharing all the info I have.

 

I actually did have a small (4-5in blade) lock knife with me, but as geomann1 pointed out, one newbie geocacher fighting against 12-15 16 year olds would be a demonstration of a special kind of lunacy! I wonder if I would have used some hi-volume pepper spray if I'd had it. It seems like that *might* work, but as others have pointed out, you never know what else they are carrying.

 

One of the detectives told me a terrible story about an event that happened that same day - a woman was in a chinese restaurant screaming that she didn't like her food. A guy started to yell back at the lady - sticking up for the chinese restaurant workers. The woman gets on her cellphone, calls her sons, who show up 3 minutes later and shoot the guy dead. Stories like that scare the crap out of me.

 

Wayfinders: lol - I really don't get that baggy pants look either. That said I was a punk in England in the eighties, so my leeway is limited :D To be honest there was so much going on in that minute, I didn't see anyone's clothing. I only really got a good look at one guy's face (who I assume is the one who punched me initially) I won't forget that sh#$-eating grin for a long time.

 

ar_kayaker: a big stick is not a bad idea. Funnily enough, there was weird dude in the park right by me as I was subtly looking for the cache. He was attacking a dead tree, with no apparent skill whatsoever, using a bostaff-looking pole of about 10 feet. He was totally ignored by the mob. Apparently the loony-with-a-big-stick look totally worked for him :ph34r:

 

Confucius' Cat:

Even with the wussy manner in which we practice, taking on no more than 3 or four at once who have the "courtesy" not to all attack at once, (what I am saying is "our practice is not very street-wise") it is quite obvious that trying to fight 15 will not work.

That cracked me up! I agree, a run would have been the best bet, though carrying a backpack and being well out of shape wasn't doing me any favours there :P

 

Thanks again, everyone, for the incredible outpouring of support. It has made this experience a LOT easier to deal with. The community here has more than restored whatever faith in humankind I lost in this event. I'm really touched.

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REMEMBER

• You can’t bring a spray from another state into New York.

• You can’t buy it online.

• You can’t give it to a minor.

 

But what you CAN do (quite legally, in fact!) is MOVE OUT of that liberal-run pesthole of a state!

 

I used to live in neighboring liberal-run Massachusetts. Did some fine geocaching there, in fact. But that state had many of the same problems that plague New Yorkers - high property taxes, annoying traffic jams on the highways, winters that were long, cold, and dreary - although muggings in Boston were probably a bit less frequent than in New York City.

 

Here in rural Arkansas (an area that self-righteous liberals often refer to as "red-neck country") we have parks, just like they do in New York City. Only OUR parks don't have muggers. Instead, they have things like "trees" and "quiet" and "peacefulness" and "safety". Plus our property taxes are much, MUCH lower. And winter pretty much is over by late February, rather than late April. Traffic jams are merely a (un)fond memory at this point. And the scenary, at least here in the northwest corner of the state, is absolutely gorgeous, with mountains that rival those of southern New Hampshire. And I never hear any of the people here refer to New York or Massachusetts as "mugger country" or "pompous effete snob country". In short, the folks I have met in Arkansas seem to be a lot more polite than are the self-righteous liberals who mock them as "red-necks".

 

I am sorry to read that one of my fellow geocachers got mugged. But from what I hear, muggings are pretty common in big city parks. And, sadly, FAR too many city folks don't even TRY to hide their disdain for people they have never met, people who are in fact very decent people, but people who those city folks INSULT by calling them "red-necks" and who actually seem to think are "ignorant", even though they are not.

 

If you think this is a personal commentary aimed at SOME of the inhabitants of our major (and usually liberal-run) cities, you are absolutely correct! :ph34r:

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REMEMBER

• You can’t bring a spray from another state into New York.

• You can’t buy it online.

• You can’t give it to a minor.

 

But what you CAN do (quite legally, in fact!) is MOVE OUT of that liberal-run pesthole of a state!

 

I used to live in neighboring liberal-run Massachusetts. Did some fine geocaching there, in fact. But that state had many of the same problems that plague New Yorkers - high property taxes, annoying traffic jams on the highways, winters that were long, cold, and dreary - although muggings in Boston were probably a bit less frequent than in New York City.

 

Here in rural Arkansas (an area that self-righteous liberals often refer to as "red-neck country") we have parks, just like they do in New York City. Only OUR parks don't have muggers. Instead, they have things like "trees" and "quiet" and "peacefulness" and "safety". Plus our property taxes are much, MUCH lower. And winter pretty much is over by late February, rather than late April. Traffic jams are merely a (un)fond memory at this point. And the scenary, at least here in the northwest corner of the state, is absolutely gorgeous, with mountains that rival those of southern New Hampshire. And I never hear any of the people here refer to New York or Massachusetts as "mugger country" or "pompous effete snob country". In short, the folks I have met in Arkansas seem to be a lot more polite than are the self-righteous liberals who mock them as "red-necks".

 

I am sorry to read that one of my fellow geocachers got mugged. But from what I hear, muggings are pretty common in big city parks. And, sadly, FAR too many city folks don't even TRY to hide their disdain for people they have never met, people who are in fact very decent people, but people who those city folks INSULT by calling them "red-necks" and who actually seem to think are "ignorant", even though they are not.

 

If you think this is a personal commentary aimed at SOME of the inhabitants of our major (and usually liberal-run) cities, you are absolutely correct! :ph34r:

 

As the OP, I have to say that I think this post is entirely inappropriate. Please don't turn my unfortunate experience into a political 'debate'. If you want to have such a discussion, please start it in the off-topic forum.

 

Thanks.

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I am SO glad i don't live in NY!

 

Here in rural Arkansas (an area that self-righteous liberals often refer to as "red-neck country") we have parks, just like they do in New York City. Only OUR parks don't have muggers. Instead, they have things like "trees" and "quiet" and "peacefulness" and "safety".

 

NY is actually quite safe as large cities go. It's not quite Disneyworld, but compared to what it was 15-20 years ago it's a different world. I feel safe walking down streets these days that I would't have driven down in the 70's.

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I am SO glad i don't live in NY!

 

Here in rural Arkansas (an area that self-righteous liberals often refer to as "red-neck country") we have parks, just like they do in New York City. Only OUR parks don't have muggers. Instead, they have things like "trees" and "quiet" and "peacefulness" and "safety".

 

NY is actually quite safe as large cities go. It's not quite Disneyworld, but compared to what it was 15-20 years ago it's a different world. I feel safe walking down streets these days that I would't have driven down in the 70's.

 

I'll second this. Growing up in Scranton, we used to love to go to NYC--but Central Park was completely off limits (late 70's to early 80's). We mostly stuck to Rockefeller center and a few museums that we took taxis to.

 

Now I'm rediscovering the city, because I can actually walk around many more neighborhoods and feel very relaxed.

 

Having trained at the trauma center in Little Rock, Arkansas I can assure you that these same people live there. It's simply a population density thing.

 

I hope the OP is mending well, and will keep caching.

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I agree re: safety of NY. that's all I'll say on the topic for fear of reigniting a political debate.

 

Quick update - the poor guy who had his jaw broken needs surgery, but he was able to identify 3 of the 5 punks that the cops picked up. The Detective called me today to confirm the part of my story about them trying to pull my backpack off, because apparently they admitted having an interaction with me, but denied trying to pull the backpack. Their version of events is that they accidentally bumped into me (not punched me in the back of the head!), I fell down, and they were gathering round to see if I was OK.

 

Incredible!

 

I feel better knowing that they seem to have the right guys.

 

Here's my ankle, apparently they must've REALLY not been looking where they were going when they bumped into me. They gave me cankles!

 

foot.jpg

 

Apologies to anyone who may be eating :ph34r:

 

Thanks again to everyone for the well wishes and thoughtful notes. I really appreciate it.

Edited by greenbriel
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I am SO glad i don't live in NY!

 

Here in rural Arkansas (an area that self-righteous liberals often refer to as "red-neck country") we have parks, just like they do in New York City. Only OUR parks don't have muggers. Instead, they have things like "trees" and "quiet" and "peacefulness" and "safety".

 

NY is actually quite safe as large cities go. It's not quite Disneyworld, but compared to what it was 15-20 years ago it's a different world. I feel safe walking down streets these days that I would't have driven down in the 70's.

 

I'll second this. Growing up in Scranton, we used to love to go to NYC--but Central Park was completely off limits (late 70's to early 80's). We mostly stuck to Rockefeller center and a few museums that we took taxis to.

 

Now I'm rediscovering the city, because I can actually walk around many more neighborhoods and feel very relaxed.

 

Having trained at the trauma center in Little Rock, Arkansas I can assure you that these same people live there. It's simply a population density thing.

 

I hope the OP is mending well, and will keep caching.

 

As far as crime rates, see below links:

 

NYC ranked 49th for murder, behind many southern cites and some cities usually considered safe (Minneapolis)

 

Little Rock makes the list of the 5 most crime ridden large cities in the US

 

Fact is that NYC is a safer place to be then Little Rock or most large cities in the US.

 

http://www.bestplaces.net/docs/studies/crime1.aspx

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States...s_by_crime_rate

 

 

Worst Large Cities for Crime (>500,000 pop.)

Although Arizona has two of the most crime-ridden cities in the nation, their violent crime rates are relatively low.

1. Tucson, AZ

Tucson has one of the highest property crime rates in the country, especially larceny. On the bright side, Tucson has a low murder rate.

2. Memphis, TN-AR-MS *

Residents of Memphis contend with the nation's second-highest violent crime rate. In addition, the rate of robbery and burglary are among the nation's highest.

3. Miami, FL

Miami's violent crime rate is the highest in the nation, with especially high incidences of robbery and assault. Thankfully, the murder rate is relatively low.

4. Phoenix-Mesa, AZ

Phoenix-Mesa has one of the highest rates of auto theft in the nation.

5. Little Rock-North Little Rock, AR

The Little Rock area has a high rate of property crime, especially larceny.

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This:

 

As far as crime rates, see below links:

 

NYC ranked 49th for murder, behind many southern cites and some cities usually considered safe (Minneapolis)

 

Little Rock makes the list of the 5 most crime ridden large cities in the US

 

Fact is that NYC is a safer place to be then Little Rock or most large cities in the US.

 

makes this:

 

If you think this is a personal commentary aimed at SOME of the inhabitants of our major (and usually liberal-run) cities, you are absolutely correct!

 

sound pretty darn ignorant!

 

Hope your ankle heals quickly and you can get back on the trails!

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STOP THE PRESSES!!!

 

I just this second got off the phone with one of the officers involved in my case, and they RECOVERED MY GPS!!

 

I can't believe it. I asked how they got it back and was told that it's a long story that I would hear when one of the other detectives called me. I'm curious as hell, and I will let you know as soon as I find out. They need to keep it until Tuesday for photographs and fingerprinting/DNA (apparently they started running DNA on robbery 6 months ago).

 

He said it was turned off (been more than 18 hours, so that's expected), but otherwise seemed in good condition.

 

I have to say I am very impressed with th NYPD right now. Everyone there has been really great through this whole thing. My fiancée and I are baking them a cake before we go to pick up the GPS. Between them, and you guys, it was almost worth it. Well, almost :ph34r:

 

Obviously anyone who sent a donation to TeamWerlin's GPS replacement fund (thank you again) will get a refund, and if anyone gets hit with PayPal fees, I will gladly reimburse.

 

As soon as my ankle heals, you can be sure I'll out seeking again. I'm hoping the crutches might get me an upgrade on my upcoming flight :P

 

Thank you SO, SO, SO MUCH for the support. I'm really indebted, and I can't tell you how much this has meant to me. I'm kind of stunned right now.

 

Warmest wishes to you and yours,

 

-G

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Wow, thats awesome! I wanted to add a word of advice on fighting back; an old teacher of mine once told me these words; if you bring a gun to a fight, expect to get shot. A knife, expect to get stabbed. Fists, you'll get hit. If retreat is impossible, pick one, and make him sorry. After all, if may cost you your life to do nothing.

But, I think its great they recovered it. Now, at least, your mind will be at ease that they have your home address. Did they catch the kids too?

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If retreat is impossible, pick one, and make him sorry. After all, if may cost you your life to do nothing.

 

Oddly this is actually pretty good tactics against a mob, especially if you can do it quickly and leave the others waiting their turn. For that matter if you have a few seconds notice such as "Hey man, give us your wallet or we'll beat you," just act casual and give them back:

 

"Sure, against fifteen of you, I may lose...eventually...but first I'm going to crack your skull (single out one person, preferably the one that spoke up first) then I'm going to shatter your kneecaps (single out person number two), crush your windpipe (number three) and after that we'll just ad lib....ya'll ready?

 

When faced with individual threats a mob tends to lose cohesion. Of course it helps if you have the skill and actual intent to back it the threat.

 

Congrats on getting the GPSr back.

 

AK

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"Oddly this is actually pretty good tactics against a mob, especially if you can do it quickly and leave the others waiting their turn. For that matter if you have a few seconds notice such as "Hey man, give us your wallet or we'll beat you," just act casual and give them back:

 

"Sure, against fifteen of you, I may lose...eventually...but first I'm going to crack your skull (single out one person, preferably the one that spoke up first) then I'm going to shatter your kneecaps (single out person number two), crush your windpipe (number three) and after that we'll just ad lib....ya'll ready?

 

When faced with individual threats a mob tends to lose cohesion. Of course it helps if you have the skill and actual intent to back it the threat"

 

Interesting in theory, although the possibility certainly exists that if the mob just wanted to take your wallet and you threaten them or started to fight them, you just might get yourself killed.

 

The basic issue with the fight back philosophy, is that relatively few of us are actually adequately trained in self defense and are emotionally/mentally prepared to do it. Someone with pepper spray, may just as likely get sprayed themselves, if they never used it before and got into panic mode. This is even more so true with a knife or gun. One has to ask oneself, am I more trained/familiar with weapons use than my assailants.

 

Great news on getting your GPS back. I would have put the odds of that happening at about a 100 to 1.

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I'm very happy that you got your GPS back bud.

 

In a way I take it as a sign from above.Things sometimes work out strangely.

 

TeamWerlin would probably know why... :(

 

Maybe you guys could honeymoon in VT and do some caching there too.Plenty safe.Only 4-5 hours away.We'd welcome ya anytime.

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The basic issue with the fight back philosophy, is that relatively few of us are actually adequately trained in self defense and are emotionally/mentally prepared to do it. Someone with pepper spray, may just as likely get sprayed themselves, if they never used it before and got into panic mode. This is even more so true with a knife or gun. One has to ask oneself, am I more trained/familiar with weapons use than my assailants.

 

In discussions such as these two camps emerge. The first camp has a, realistically or not, positive view of their own capabilities and training and tends to promote a fight-back response as the appropriate response for everyone, completely neglecting the fact that not everyone is prepared, mentally or physically, to use force.

 

The second camp realizes they are unprepared, incapable, and/or unwilling to use force and tends to project that response as appropriate for all, completely neglecting the fact that many are willing and capable of dealing with an attack with the appropriate amount of force.

 

Reality, as in most things, lies somewhere in the middle. Self-defense is, by definition, a personal undertaking and only the individual involved can determine the appropriate response for them in a given situation.

Edited by pcunningham
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GeoWorms: we are due a trip out West, I'll drop a note if we make it, thanks! :lol:

 

Capt. Blackbeard: I certainly will :laughing: Your handle keeps reminding of my giant schnauzer mix, who's nickname is Cap'n Wetbeard after he drinks from his water bowl :(

 

ar kayaker: I'm not that guy. I don't react meekly when accosted - I think my incensed "what the ^%&*?!?" when first hit, and fighting for my backpack may have given them enough pause to put them a bit off their game. That said, I can't see myself ever getting away with your Bronson-esque scenario. You should write for Hollywood!

 

geomann: I agree, I had completely given up on it. I can't wait to find out how it happened.

 

old soldier: thanks. It does sound like they got at least some of them. see message above regarding latest info I got.

 

vtmtnman: I appreciate it - my lady is looking at brochures for Fiji <gulp>, but sure let me see if I can persuade her to go caching in chilly VT instead ;-) Seriously though, thank you, I do love VT, maybe we can make it up there one day. My interest is piqued by the mysterious TeamWerlin reference...

 

Speaking of whom: as a feeble attempt to give a little back to the community that's been so nice to me the last few days, I want to offer my old GPS 38 to anyone who might know a kid or not-super-rich adult who they think might be interested in getting into caching. TeamWerlin has first crack at it, and I'm waiting to hear from him, but after that it's fair game to a good home, shipping on me. But if I see it on eBay, remember, I have cop friends now :->

 

pcunningham FTW! smartest post yet on the subject.

 

Thanks again to everyone!

Edited by greenbriel
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As I said on my pm to you Greenbriel I'm sorry this happened to you. I guess most cachers can imagine it happening to them.

 

I have a state issued HCP (handgun carry permit) and most times I carry. About a year ago I was out looking for a cache near a park. It was broad daylight and there were people around but not in my direct line of sight. I was walking down a wide path looking down at my gpsr when I noticed 3 guys. They had spread out and were about 20 feet ahead of me. They had stopped walking, were looking at me very intently and if I kept walking I would have to walk between 2 of them with my back toward one.

 

I keep my weapon in an inside the waistband hip holster. I pulled shirt up, drew my weapon, assumed a defensive stance, my weapon was pointed down with my finger outside the guard but ready to bring up in a flash. I have been to two handgun classes and was glad I had.

 

Long story short the guys bugged out, not after they swore that I was a racist %*#.

 

After they left and I stopped shaking I was on my way back to my truck and there was a local LEO and he was talking to two young women that had, I was soon to learn, met the same 3 guys I did. They had been assaulted. I informed the LEO about my experience.

 

It is something I won't soon forget and hope it'll never happen again.

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Thanks again vtmtnman, will do.

 

beerbrewer737, whoa, that's a really scary story. Glad you handled it well and came out unscathed.

 

mama upe - I already discussed doing that with my gf. I am really relieved to have the GPSr in the cops' hands, with about 99% certainty that the bad guys won't have figured that out.

 

I had also planned to put a sticker on it when I got it back saying: "THIS GPS UNIT IS SATELLITE TRACKABLE", but it sounds like the cops retreived it from one of the perps, so that would have worked against me here.

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As the owner of the cache that started this whole thing, I am glad there was a happy ending. I have posted a note on the cache page summarizing the OP's experience as told in this string.

 

I am hopeful this will never happen again. I just got back from a beautiful day in Riverside Park, where dozens of familes were enjoying Mothers' Day. The posters who trashed NY above clearly have not been here recently. The city has come a long way since the days of "Death Wish" and "Nighthawks." Riverside and Central Parks are the two best reasons to be here. This neighborhood is not just where I cache, it is where I live. It is a family neighborhood, more so than any other in Manhattan. There is no need to carry guns, knives or pepper spray.

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Glad you got your GPS back. One thing to let the cops know about, if your GPS was on when you got mugged that means there is a track log. Which can be downloaded and could be used to pinpoint the other locations these kids went to, possibly to other places that assaults may have occured.

 

Be like people who film vandalism as their friends commit vandalism, only to have it be used as evidence against them.

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The track log is a good idea. Might even help the cops round up more of the bad guys.

 

The first thing i did when I got my new 60CX was put a note on the welcome screen saying "If found please call (my name) on (my mobile number) for a reward"

 

I am sure that if I ever lose it this will greatly increase my chances of getting it back.

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If retreat is impossible, pick one, and make him sorry. After all, if may cost you your life to do nothing.

<snip>

Oddly this is actually pretty good tactics against a mob, especially if you can do it quickly and leave the others waiting their turn.

Actually my brother did this many years ago when he was a paperboy. For whatever reason, paperboys and their dollar and a half of route money were very popular to rob back then (I was one also and robbed several times for literally pennies).

 

My brother picked out the apparent leader of the gang and smeared his face into the sidewalk. The others fled and that particular gang never gave him any more trouble.

 

it is especially unnerving when you get mugged and know you have to go back to the place every day. being a scrawny paperboy really sucked.

 

As the owner of the cache that started this whole thing, I am glad there was a happy ending. I have posted a note on the cache page summarizing the OP's experience as told in this string.

 

I am hopeful this will never happen again. I just got back from a beautiful day in Riverside Park, where dozens of familes were enjoying Mothers' Day. The posters who trashed NY above clearly have not been here recently. The city has come a long way since the days of "Death Wish" and "Nighthawks." Riverside and Central Parks are the two best reasons to be here. This neighborhood is not just where I cache, it is where I live. It is a family neighborhood, more so than any other in Manhattan. There is no need to carry guns, knives or pepper spray.

I have heard that after Giuliani, NY has changed a great deal for the better and is not the same place as it was but to most outsiders, especially country bumpkins like me, the reputation will die hard.

 

My personal truck with NY has not changed and has been reinforced by some of the comments herein. Basically my complaint is simply that NY doesn't trust GOOD people with the means to defend themselves. Apparently that has not changed. You can't even carry pepper spray? How ridiculous is that!

 

These attacks take place in SECONDS and they are OVER. There is NO ONE who can defend you except yourself. that a government will deny their good citizens the right to act in their own self defence and the means to adequately do so is IMO totally reckless and irresponsible.

 

Someone should file a multi-billion dollar class action against these usurpative governments on behalf of all good citizens who COULD HAVE defended themselves had the governments not disarmed them.

 

 

Glad you got your GPSr back. I would have bet a million to one against that.

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I have heard that after Giuliani, NY has changed a great deal for the better and is not the same place as it was but to most outsiders, especially country bumpkins like me, the reputation will die hard.

 

My personal truck with NY has not changed and has been reinforced by some of the comments herein. Basically my complaint is simply that NY doesn't trust GOOD people with the means to defend themselves. Apparently that has not changed. You can't even carry pepper spray? How ridiculous is that!

 

These attacks take place in SECONDS and they are OVER. There is NO ONE who can defend you except yourself. that a government will deny their good citizens the right to act in their own self defence and the means to adequately do so is IMO totally reckless and irresponsible.

 

Someone should file a multi-billion dollar class action against these usurpative governments on behalf of all good citizens who COULD HAVE defended themselves had the governments not disarmed them.

Perhaps you should check post #58

As the OP, I have to say that I think this post is entirely inappropriate. Please don't turn my unfortunate experience into a political 'debate'. If you want to have such a discussion, please start it in the off-topic forum.

 

Or Post #62

NYC ranked 49th for murder, behind many southern cites and some cities usually considered safe (Minneapolis)

Little Rock makes the list of the 5 most crime ridden large cities in the US

 

Fact is that NYC is a safer place to be then Little Rock or most large cities in the US.

http://www.bestplaces.net/docs/studies/crime1.aspx

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States...s_by_crime_rate

 

Worst Large Cities for Crime (>500,000 pop.)

Although Arizona has two of the most crime-ridden cities in the nation, their violent crime rates are relatively low.

1. Tucson, AZ

Tucson has one of the highest property crime rates in the country, especially larceny. On the bright side, Tucson has a low murder rate.

2. Memphis, TN-AR-MS *

Residents of Memphis contend with the nation's second-highest violent crime rate. In addition, the rate of robbery and burglary are among the nation's highest.

3. Miami, FL

Miami's violent crime rate is the highest in the nation, with especially high incidences of robbery and assault. Thankfully, the murder rate is relatively low.

4. Phoenix-Mesa, AZ

Phoenix-Mesa has one of the highest rates of auto theft in the nation.

5. Little Rock-North Little Rock, AR

The Little Rock area has a high rate of property crime, especially larceny.

Edited by magellan315
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Perhaps you should check post #58

As the OP, I have to say that I think this post is entirely inappropriate. Please don't turn my unfortunate experience into a political 'debate'. If you want to have such a discussion, please start it in the off-topic forum.

Perhaps you should be more careful to maintain CONTEXT? i don't recall this reply being directed at me or any of my posts and I don't consider my comments to be a "political debate".

 

The discussion in this thread has been, from the beginning, along two paths, "we're sorry for your loss" and "If it would have been me, I would have..."

 

i have clearly stated my opinion that the "fight, flight, or sit and take it" decision is strictly personal and not proper for "armchair quarterbacking", but opinions of how such situations MIGHT be handled is entirely within the realm of expectation on this topic.

 

i AGREED with the cache owner's post and stated my opinion that denying people the right and ability to defend themselves is unacceptable. If you or anyone else chooses to live in a place where they deny your basic human rights, that is your prerogative.

 

As to your statistics, so what? I would not live in ANY CITY, because of crime rates as well as host of other reasons.

 

Did you see the "country bumpkin" thing?

 

When I look for a place to live, one of the first signs that a place is inappropriate for me is seeing a "Vote for me for MAYOR" sign.

 

It is not a political debate. It is a matter of personal choice. As long as i live in a "free" country, I will "vote with my feet" on this issue.

 

Actually, I sincerely hope very few people go along... that's how CITIES are made. :)

 

it is my belief that the best way to fight is to avoid the situation that causes the fight. Since in this case the situation was the existence of PUNKS who want to pick on innocent citizens, the OP had no way to AVOID the fight without staying home in bed that day. IMO THAT is a lousy way to live one's life!

 

Please don't misunderstand, I believe wholeheartedly in being prepared, but I would never recommend needlessly going into "harms way." The prime directive of self defence is not to go "looking for trouble."

 

As cachers though, we typically enjoy being out and about. Therefore safety in doing so is not political, it is a necessity.

 

A person basically has two alternatives:

 

1. Live life in fear of being attacked at any time, therefore being a prisoner of your own fear

2. prepare yourself for defence and live life as normal

 

If option #2 cannot be exercised because of government, then one must choose #1 or #3: MOVE

 

It is not political, it is common sense. Each person makes hisher own choice and I respect either one.

 

I choose #2

Edited by Confucius' Cat
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I was so upset while reading this thread. I feel so bad that you went through this.

I'm happy that all is a lot better now, and that several were caught, and that you retrieved your GPS.

 

I'm the Owner of the Cache in Prospect Park. (The Nethermead Arches)

I did have another one placed, but it was a bit too obvious, and was muggled.

I've tried to replace it twice, but the container wasn't the right size, and still would have been obvious.

I also needed to hide it early in the morning, or later in the afternoon to avoid attraction to place it for the

first time.

 

Unfortunately, I scared myself... and haven't really cached alone, since. (Stopped Caching...)

I've gone alone to the Park a few times, and the last time I tried to place the Cache, my hair was

standing on the back of my neck. It's difficult being alone, and passing someone that you don't trust...

and feel like it's possible to be Mugged/attacked.

 

That's why I decided to place "The Nethermead Arches" Cache in a busy area. The walking Traffic makes it a little more difficult to retrieve the Cache, however, it's safer in the long run, for the lone Cacher... to be in a community walking traffic area. There's less of a chance of an altercation.

 

After that Morning of Scaring myself in the Park, I decided I wouldn't go Geocaching alone anymore.

However, my friends live a few hours away... and We hardly get together.

 

I hope you do get to Cache in the UK soon, and that your ankle heals quickly!

 

All the best...

 

~Fluttershy :)

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I don't consider my comments to be a "political debate".

 

Your post became political as soon as you started ranting about lawsuits against usuprative governments and claims that a government is preventing people from defending themselves. A previous poster started the same claptrap about living in NYC and was asked to stop.

 

These attacks take place in SECONDS and they are OVER. There is NO ONE who can defend you except yourself. that a government will deny their good citizens the right to act in their own self defence and the means to adequately do so is IMO totally reckless and irresponsible.

 

Someone should file a multi-billion dollar class action against these usurpative governments on behalf of all good citizens who COULD HAVE defended themselves had the governments not disarmed them.

 

By all means live in a small town and from your post discourage others from doing so. But spare us from the big cities are crime ridden cesspools where people can not defend themselves and live in fear nonsense.

Edited by magellan315
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"Someone should file a multi-billion dollar class action against these usurpative governments on behalf of all good citizens who COULD HAVE defended themselves had the governments not disarmed them."

 

We are one of the most armed Countries in the world and yet have the highest crime rate in the "civilized" world, so it is a little far fetched to suggest that the government has disarmed us.

 

I have no problem at all with law abiding, mentally competent CITIZENS owning weapons provided that they are trained to use them. I have a big concern with untrained irresponsible people carrying weapons because they are just as likely to shot themselves or much worse, innocent bystanders. In other words, just because you have a weapon does not imply that you "could defend" yourself, which is why it is irresponsible for go out and encourage people to by knives, pepper spray, or guns.

 

It also stereotypical that small towns are safer than big cities. If you want sterotypes, which would you rather run into while geocaching, big city gang or bunch of inbred hillbillies (ala movie Deliverance). Fact is bad things can happen anywheres and anytime.

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I was so upset while reading this thread. I feel so bad that you went through this.

I'm happy that all is a lot better now, and that several were caught, and that you retrieved your GPS.

 

I'm the Owner of the Cache in Prospect Park. (The Nethermead Arches)

I did have another one placed, but it was a bit too obvious, and was muggled.

I've tried to replace it twice, but the container wasn't the right size, and still would have been obvious.

I also needed to hide it early in the morning, or later in the afternoon to avoid attraction to place it for the

first time.

~Fluttershy :)

 

Hey Fluttershy - you own 50% of all the caches we've found :ph34r: Nethermead Arches is a great one. My gf found it first and was ecstatic. Very fun.

 

I go the park quite a lot with my dog, and have been looking for good spots to leave another cache, and you're right, it's a lot tougher than it would seem. Once I am back up and around better, we plan to do a bunch of NY caches. If you want, drop me a pm with your email and we can coordinate. I am battle tested, though I think I received about a C- :)

 

Cheers.

Edited by greenbriel
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My personal truck with NY has not changed and has been reinforced by some of the comments herein. Basically my complaint is simply that NY doesn't trust GOOD people with the means to defend themselves. Apparently that has not changed. You can't even carry pepper spray? How ridiculous is that!

 

These attacks take place in SECONDS and they are OVER. There is NO ONE who can defend you except yourself. that a government will deny their good citizens the right to act in their own self defence and the means to adequately do so is IMO totally reckless and irresponsible.

Well, actually... NY does trust their good citizens. Reread that post back on page 1. There are some specific limitations, but you are legally allowed to carry pepper spray as long as you are an adult and have no felony convictions or convictions in other states that would qualify as felonies in NY state. Pepper Spray is LEGAL in all 50 states. However, possession and/or use may be regulated or prohibited by law in some jurisdictions.

 

You can read more about the restrictions for New York here:

New York Penal Law Section §265.20 14

 

Spray on, (non-felonious adult) New Yorkers, spray on...

 

greenbriel, glad to hear the good news about your GPS and hoping for a speedy recovery. :)

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Wow! I'm glad they retrieved your GPS! Thats incredible news; but YIKES, that ankle looks bad! Get some rest, I hope it feels better soon!

 

for the folks bashing new york city for not allowing weapons.... different parts of the country are different. guns may be appropriate in a large rural house, but in a tiny new york apartment? not so appropriate. when i was a little kid; my father brought a gun home "to protect the family" who found it first? i did. 4 year old me. that story could have ended badly. my mother made him get rid of it. thankfully.

 

its also much more likely that a weapon will be used against you in a confrontation... really, i know that 10-15 guys could easily wrestle it out of my hands. besides, as plenty of people posted earlier, the city has been cleaned up a lot. there are still areas that scare me, perhaps more so since ive been living in suburban nj for 5 years, but for the most part its a great place to be. but not for everyone. everyone is different. we live in different places for different reasons, and shouldnt criticize each others decisions. at least not on this forum!

 

personally, i miss the energy of new york. i also miss the convenience of walking (i hate driving everywhere; especially when theres beer involved!!) ..and 24 hour stores.. but it was cheaper to live in jersey.. we're all different. I'm about as off topic as everyone else at this point so I'll stop. also ill put that cache back on my list but make sure to look over my shoulder..

 

The important thing though, is that this ended well (except for the ankle!) The NYPD did their job, they caught (most of) the guys and they even retrieved his GPS, that should speak loads of good for the city!!!

 

On another side note, i resent the use of the term "punk" to describe these &%$#@'s

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=punk :)

Edited by ThirstyMick
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I am SO glad i don't live in NY!

 

Here in rural Arkansas (an area that self-righteous liberals often refer to as "red-neck country") we have parks, just like they do in New York City. Only OUR parks don't have muggers. Instead, they have things like "trees" and "quiet" and "peacefulness" and "safety".

 

NY is actually quite safe as large cities go. It's not quite Disneyworld, but compared to what it was 15-20 years ago it's a different world. I feel safe walking down streets these days that I would't have driven down in the 70's.

 

actually, Disney did buy a whole lot of Midtown... :)

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its also much more likely that a weapon will be used against you in a confrontation... really, i know that 10-15 guys could easily wrestle it out of my hands.

 

From my post #74:

The second camp realizes they are unprepared, incapable, and/or unwilling to use force and tends to project that response as appropriate for all, completely neglecting the fact that many are willing and capable of dealing with an attack with the appropriate amount of force.

 

Just because it's not an option for you doesn't mean that it's not an option for others. There are other worldviews out there and all on this thread would do well to remember that. In my humble opinion, of course. :)

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its also much more likely that a weapon will be used against you in a confrontation... really, i know that 10-15 guys could easily wrestle it out of my hands.

 

From my post #74:

The second camp realizes they are unprepared, incapable, and/or unwilling to use force and tends to project that response as appropriate for all, completely neglecting the fact that many are willing and capable of dealing with an attack with the appropriate amount of force.

 

Just because it's not an option for you doesn't mean that it's not an option for others. There are other worldviews out there and all on this thread would do well to remember that. In my humble opinion, of course. :)

 

which is why i said "my hands" and not "anyone's hands". But, if you could out fight 10-15 guys, I'm impressed!

 

my main point though, was for many places in the country it might be appropriate, but every place is different.

Edited by ThirstyMick
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I'm so happy you got the GPSr back and take care of that ankle - that looks like it smarts!

 

and after reading this thread on friday at work i get home to find my apartment was robbed - everything from my computer to a small gameboy, all my photographs, all our change (but left us the pennies), even the bathroom towels to wrap it all in. Ive lived in NY my whole life but I'm not feeling too pleased at the moment.

Edited by Ursamajr
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AWESOME NEWS!!!... Thats is just great! Ill bet you are just tickeled PINK...well except for your purple cankle! :) Keep icing that thing...looks like a pretty bad sprain! (not that im a pro)

 

I sure hope all those guys get caught!...SEE I told ya...They'll get theirs!!!

 

Fill us in on the details of how they got it back when you get it!....HOW FREAKIN COOL!...Now ya just gotta get in on that self defense class-and show those guys next time!...or wait maybe a running class! :ph34r::)

 

Thanks for the good ending NYPD!...Good work guys!

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I'm so happy you got the GPSr back and take care of that ankle - that looks like it smarts!

 

and after reading this thread on friday at work i get home to find my apartment was robbed - everything from my computer to a small gameboy, all my photographs, all our change (but left us the pennies), even the bathroom towels to wrap it all in. Ive lived in NY my whole life but I'm not feeling too pleased at the moment.

Bummer. Please tell us that it was all covered by insurance.

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