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GOT MUGGED!


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I got mugged while caching yesterday - here's the log from http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...13-2d199675846d

 

This sucks.

 

---snip--

 

Well I found this nice little cache (only my second find), but as I was leaving, I was attacked by a gang of 10-15 teenagers. They punched me in the back of the head and tried to pull my backpack off me. I (probably foolishly) resisted, because it contained my digital SLR, lenses, the photos I had just shot for a client, and an ipod. As we tussled, I fell, twisted my ankle (probably broken - getting it x-rayed today), and my brand new, beloved Garmin 60csx + 2gig memory card fell on the ground. One of the kids grabbed it, and they took off laughing in the other direction.

 

I got off lucky - I kept my camera and ipod, and the guy they attacked immediately after me has a broken jaw. He was in the precinct at the same time I was.

 

I am so incredibly bummed, I saved for a while to buy that GPS, can't afford another one, and was looking forward to caching in England/Wales, and Maine this summer. This sucks.

 

I spent hours in the police station, and they picked up 5 kids, none of whom I could identify. The police went back to the park after they heard someone tossed the GPS, but no luck. I'm a bit freaked because I have a 'HOME' waypoint in there, but everyone tells me I'm being paranoid. I'm hoping they imagine that they can be tracked by having it (everyone keeps asking me if it can) and toss it.

 

Anyway, up until this sucky event, I really enjoyed finding the cache! I signed the log, took a 1 euro coin, and left a Compaq PCMCIA wireless card. Please leave something nice if you take that.

 

I also took the coke TB, with the intention of taking it to England in 2 weeks, but without a GPS that's going to be hard. I'm not going back to Riverside Park EVER, so unless they recover my Garmin (unlikely at this point) I will probably drop it at the first cache I found, in Prospect Park.

 

Sorry for the long log, take care of yourselves out there!

 

--snip--

 

Anyone else had a bad deal while out?

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Make sure that you call Garmin. They will flag your GPSr as stolen so the bad guys can get arrested if someone ever tries to reregister it or load maps to it.

 

Also, check with your homeowner's (or renters) insurance. You might be covered.

 

Do you still have your old GPS 38? You might be able to still use that until you replace your stolen one.

Edited by sbell111
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Oh man I hate that happened! One of our local cachers had a somewhat similar instance recently, on the way home from a cache he saw a man apparently in distress, stopped to help and got into a violent tussle with a nut case.

 

Hopefully someone will have a spare GPS they can provide you - my 60CSx is on loan to a friend in China and I am using my GPS76 backup... if you don't have a GPS by the first of June when I get my 60 CSx back email me and you can use my GPS76 for however long it takes for you to get a new GPS.

 

Ed

edmanley@bham.rr.com

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Make sure that you call Garmin. They will flag your GPSr as stolen so the bad guys can get arrested if someone ever tries to reregister it or load maps to it.

 

Also, check with your homeowner's (or renters) insurance. You might be covered.

 

Do you still have your old GPS 38? You might be able to still use that until you replace your stolen one.

Most home owner's insurance comes with a high deductible, and some small claim such as the GPS can actually raise your insurance rates. I would hardly suggest using this unless the value was sufficient enough to offset those two things.

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Thanks guys, I really appreciate it. I will contact Garmin - that's a good idea. Unfortunately I just loaded the entire City Navigator US and Canada on the 2gig card, so it's unlikely that they'll need to load maps on it :o

 

I have managed to hold it together pretty well through all this, but AlabamaRambler, that note literally put tears in my eyes. Thank you so much. Hopefully I can figure something out, or use my wretched GPS38 until I can scrape together enough cash for a new one. The 60csx was such an amzingly sweet unit that I can't imagine using anything else. I hadn't even had it for a week! Maybe it's time to sell the fender guitar I've been holding on to for nearly 20 years!

 

sbell: I guess I could try and use the 38, but man that's gonna suck after the 60! Still, victims can't be choosers :o I don't have any renter's insurance, sadly. No health insurance either, so I'm kinda waiting to see what happens with the ankle, which I know isn't too smart.

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Don't sell the Fender, if you held onto that guitar for 20 years it is surely worth in your mind more than the GPS'r.

 

Sorry to hear about your attack, we also need to be very carefull of muggings. No amount of preparation can help you in such a situation with a gang, hopefully the LEO will get them in the end. Could be strike three for some of those offenders!

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Boy Thast does Really suck!!!! I hate Punks, Those guys have it comin to them in one way or another! Too bad you didnt see it comin!....They willl get theres-In due time!

 

Sounds like you are pretty lucky and ounce you get over the initial loss of your crazy expensive GPS, things will get better, but for now you gotta put up with that lump in your stomach, because your Pride and Joy is GONE~! Just had 2500.00 ripped off from my shop and the very same day I was lookin at the Map 60 csx on ebay with topo and all!!!....Needless to say I wont be getting one now :drama::sad::sad:

 

But at least we are all well, and the initial shock is almost over, we just gotta pick ourselves up and carry on...OH- and watch out for the riff raff....There everywhere! And just lookin for guys like us! Good luck gettin a Loaner...or that 38

 

and ICE That ankle!!!!

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That is awful, and only on your second find!! Don't let that sway you from the hobby, but do use it as a lesson to be more aware of your surroundings. I'm not sure that would have helped in this case, but it sure couldn't hurt. Hope your doing better soon!!

 

Does anyones else think that it is quite the coinsidence that this happened so close to the posting of the "how much $ is in your bag?" thread? Anyone could stumble onto that thread and decide to "stalk" a nearby cache! It's a crazy world we live in. :drama:

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This is bad news. I hate to hear incidents like this. I hope you recover well and that the police have luck finding those responsible. Best wishes...and you certainly are in good spirits about caching considering the severity of the incident.

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I'm really, really touched by the incredible outpouring of well wishes. Thanks SO MUCH everyone. It hasn't put me off caching; it's too much fun, and although it put me in the wrong spot at the wrong time, I totally realize that this could have been any other place, any other time. That said I won't be going back to that park (it's a very nice neighborhood, but too close to some not-so-nice neighborhoods. The cops said even though it feels safe there are lots of muggings and rapes up there.

 

Big D - so sorry to hear about the robbery, man people can suck! Thanks for the ice-advice too, my girlfriend came back with a bunch of cold-packs (the dear lady stayed home from work to help me out), and by sheer luck someone once left a pair of crutches in the basement.

 

cache_test: If I got to choose - I would rather had them get my camera (a canon digital rebel) as I'm near ready to replace it, but I really didn't want them to get the photos that were on it (or my client wouldn't have been able to pay me), but I didn't think we were going to get into a negotiation about that! Also if they got that bag they'd have had lenses, 3 batteries and an ipod, so monetarily I suppose I came out ahead. I just wish I'd had that sweet GPS at least a week!

 

ToGoKo: I have to read that thread, but I get the gist from the title. I think in this particular case it was a coincidence - they didn't seem sophisticated enough to hatch a plan like that, and they hit a bunch of others nowhere near the cache site. That is a really scary thought though! I've lived in NYC for 22 years (from the UK originally) and I credit my extremely keen awareness of my surrounding with the fact that this is the first time I've been mugged in all that time. Unfortunately there was just nothing I could do in this case.

 

I did think after the fact that an excellent ruse would have been to whip round as soon as they punched me, yell "Police Officer, everyone on the ground", then pull the GPS off my belt and start yelling "Dispatch, this if 2 Adam Charlie, I need immediate assistance at..." You know they would have all ran like rabbits. Off course if they all did actually lie on the ground you have a whole new situation to deal with!

 

Anyway, sorry for another monster post. The best thing to come out of this has been such a clear demonstration of what a great community this is. I'm dying to get back on the horse.

 

Thanks again everyone, you all rock.

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Don't sell the Fender, if you held onto that guitar for 20 years it is surely worth in your mind more than the GPS'r.

 

Sorry to hear about your attack, we also need to be very carefull of muggings. No amount of preparation can help you in such a situation with a gang, hopefully the LEO will get them in the end. Could be strike three for some of those offenders!

 

You know, I have been thinking that for a while, and the main reason I've been hanging on to it for so long is because it holds it's value so well versus electronics (obviously even the mighty 60csx will be worth peanuts years from now), but on the other hand, it's just sitting in a closet, when I could turn it into another 60csx and have $600 left over. Must ponder further :drama:

 

I'm pretty sure everyone involved was a juvenile. They picked up 5 kids and they were all under 18.

Edited by greenbriel
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That's why I carry this:

 

psklg.jpg

(udap.com)

 

The LARGE can is almost 12 ounces of pure pepper power. It has a range of 30 feet. The smaller can (known as the Jogger Fogger) is pretty large too, is meant to be carried in your fist, and has a range of about 25 feet. I don't know about the keychain one.

 

Both could have taken out that mob.

 

I carry the large can in my car in a pocket behind my head in my car and the smaller can in my fist if I am going to be in a park by myself.

 

If I had the money, I'd buy you this pack. Wish I did have the money. :drama:

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The LARGE can is almost 12 ounces of pure pepper power. It has a range of 30 feet. The smaller can (known as the Jogger Fogger) is pretty large too, is meant to be carried in your fist, and has a range of about 25 feet. I don't know about the keychain one.

 

Both could have taken out that mob.

 

I have a tazer that I keep at home, but I was thinking that that's not much use against a group that size. You are correct though, a big can of pepper spray would have been exactly the right thing in that situation. Probably the only thing outside a sub machine gun or some exotic law-enforcement non-lethal weapon. Maybe I could put on my respirator before unleashing a painful Cloud O' T ears. I mean c'mon, who's going to mess with this when emerging from a cloud of pepper spray:

 

darth.jpg

 

Yup, that's me. :drama:

 

Thanks for the link, and for the kind words.

Edited by greenbriel
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That is so awful. I'm so sorry that happened to you!! I was mugged when i was a kid in queens...It's pretty scary, took a couple of days to stop shaking... I probably wouldn't worry about the "Home" coordinates since I'd guess they have no idea what the device is; but I am really sorry for your loss. That sucks :drama: Hope the ankle feels better, and I sure am glad they didn't hurt you any worse.

 

also...I think I'll be taking that cache off of my to-do list... we did a few Hudson River Park caches a couple of weeks ago but didn't make it that far north..

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Sorry to hear about the mugging. I'm glad it wasn't worse.

 

I used to live one block away from that cache. Ironically, Riverside Park was one of the filming locations for "Death Wish", where Charles Bronson got mugged. So you're in good company with Charles Bronson.

 

On the whole, I would say Riverside Park is as safe as any other park during the daytime. I'd be interested to hear what lead up to your encounter with those kids. How did they end up approaching you?

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also...I think I'll be taking that cache off of my to-do list... we did a few Hudson River Park caches a couple of weeks ago but didn't make it that far north..

 

Thanks so much, Mick, I appreciate it.

 

I've been eerily calm, keep waiting for it to sink in, I suppose.

 

I wouldn't take the cache off your list, it's a fun one (what do I know, this was my second, but it was fun up until the incident). Just go with a bunch of folks and a big can o' pepper spray (see above)

 

Hey, maybe you can avenge me :drama:

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That sucks. A week ago I was checking on a friend's cache here in Krakow and noticed that four unsavory youths (drinking) had started heading towards my area. I didn't stick around for a moment longer and high-tailed it out of there.

 

I've never had any other problems, thank the gods, but I never go out geocaching without my Benchmade 3550 (http://www.benchmade.com/products/product_detail.aspx?model=3550). I'd also consider getting some of that pepper spray. Better safe than sorry. I'd say that, since you're in the US, you might as well pack a little heat, but I'm against waving a gun around - it's a good way of getting it taken away and the alternative is plugging some muggers. Pepper spray would be a better deterrent.

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Sorry to hear about the mugging. I'm glad it wasn't worse.

 

I used to live one block away from that cache. Ironically, Riverside Park was one of the filming locations for "Death Wish", where Charles Bronson got mugged. So you're in good company with Charles Bronson.

 

On the whole, I would say Riverside Park is as safe as any other park during the daytime. I'd be interested to hear what lead up to your encounter with those kids. How did they end up approaching you?

 

Death wish - lol - that's awesome. I feel better already.

 

About the park, yeah, it was just unfortunate timing. If this had been my 50th cache instead of my 2nd, I would have found it quicker and been out of there. As I said earlier, I had a good run - 22 years in NYC with no muggings, and only one similar incident is a pretty good run. That said, I probably won't feel like going back there any time soon.

 

Basically there were a few other people in the park. Still light out, and as I was leaving (maybe 100ft from the stairs that lead out at 115 St.) I heard a commotion behind me. Turned around and saw the group of 12-15 kids walking briskly toward me. Turned back, and started walking toward the exit. They must have stealthily run up, because they caught up much faster than I expected, and I felt the punch in the back of the head.

 

Thx for the post,

 

-G

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That sucks. A week ago I was checking on a friend's cache here in Krakow and noticed that four unsavory youths (drinking) had started heading towards my area. I didn't stick around for a moment longer and high-tailed it out of there.

 

I've never had any other problems, thank the gods, but I never go out geocaching without my Benchmade 3550 (http://www.benchmade.com/products/product_detail.aspx?model=3550). I'd also consider getting some of that pepper spray. Better safe than sorry. I'd say that, since you're in the US, you might as well pack a little heat, but I'm against waving a gun around - it's a good way of getting it taken away and the alternative is plugging some muggers. Pepper spray would be a better deterrent.

 

I had a nasty experience a few months ago where I was walking down a big, but empty street in Brooklyn in the middle of the day, and I heard a bottle smashing. Looked up, and two guys are walking toward me, on the other side of the street. My spider-sense started tinglin, and they began to cross diagonally to intercept me. There was no way I could escape, so the only think I could think of was to do something unpredictable. I started crossing the street at the same diagonal to meet them. I put on a stern face, and walked right through the middle of them as we all crossed sides.

 

Couldn't believe it actually worked. Called my girlfriend right after all shaky.

 

I used to have a really nice benchmade automatic, and a bali-song. Thanks for the link,m I had forgotten how nice they are.

 

I'm certainly not the gun-toting, or knife-wielding kind, and in this particular situation neither would have worked really well anyway. I really doo think I am going to buy the pepper spray pack that sparrowhawk recommended. That would have worked well, and also made them a whole lot easier to identify. The last thing I want is for the wrong kids to get blamed for this.

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To Greenbriel and all other reading this string:

 

That's my cache and I am very upset that this happened. Nobody has logged any similar incidents with this cache. I walk with my 1 year old daughter past the cache all the time, and I've never seen anything like this, but now I'm a little worried. Generally, Riverside Park is very safe all the way up to 116th street during the daytime. There's even an outdoor restaurant nearby that stays open into the night without incident. What time did this happen?

 

Also, if your GPS is "brand new" maybe your credit card has some sort of coverage for lost/damaged purchases?

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I was being followed once and starting to feel uncomfortable so I pulled out my cellphone to loudly "tell my boyfriend, I was about a block away and should be there in about two minutes" The guy stopped following me.... of course most situations might not be so easily averted, but it worked that time... it was only one guy though...i think a group of 10-15 would have made me pee my pants! pepper spray might not be a bad idea.. When I was younger my mom taught me to walk with my keys spaced between my fingers when outside at night (didnt grow up in the nicest section of queens)..

 

I find it sad that it was a group of teenagers, why do kids do these things?! sigh... but im glad your alright (and glad to see that the experience hasn't crushed your geocaching spirit) Best wishes with the ankle..

 

i actually think for the remaining NY caches, im just going to print out google images..i've found it to work as well, if not better than the gps what with all of the buildings causing bounce; and it adds a different element to the hunt (ive found caches in the forest with just an image too.."hmmm this darker spot is probably those pine trees over there..")

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To Greenbriel and all other reading this string:

 

That's my cache and I am very upset that this happened. Nobody has logged any similar incidents with this cache. I walk with my 1 year old daughter past the cache all the time, and I've never seen anything like this, but now I'm a little worried. Generally, Riverside Park is very safe all the way up to 116th street during the daytime. There's even an outdoor restaurant nearby that stays open into the night without incident. What time did this happen?

 

Also, if your GPS is "brand new" maybe your credit card has some sort of coverage for lost/damaged purchases?

 

Hi Expedition101,

 

Thanks for the note, I appreciate it. As I said to CacheNCarryMA, I really don't think it's the cache location is dangerous, I think I just happened to get unlucky. The detectives were saying this is the third day of reports in that park (someone had a broken eye socket in the last couple of days), but hopefully the five kids that they grabbed are involved, and it will end now.

 

I'm really sorry that this happened at your cache. If you keep placing 'em I'll keep looking for 'em, deal? :drama:

 

A friend of mine also just suggested calling the credit card company. That would be fantastic, I'll post what happens. It was very brand new - under a week.

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I was being followed once and starting to feel uncomfortable so I pulled out my cellphone to loudly "tell my boyfriend, I was about a block away and should be there in about two minutes" The guy stopped following me.... of course most situations might not be so easily averted, but it worked that time... it was only one guy though...i think a group of 10-15 would have made me pee my pants! pepper spray might not be a bad idea.. When I was younger my mom taught me to walk with my keys spaced between my fingers when outside at night (didnt grow up in the nicest section of queens)..

 

I find it sad that it was a group of teenagers, why do kids do these things?! sigh... but im glad your alright (and glad to see that the experience hasn't crushed your geocaching spirit) Best wishes with the ankle..

 

i actually think for the remaining NY caches, im just going to print out google images..i've found it to work as well, if not better than the gps what with all of the buildings causing bounce; and it adds a different element to the hunt (ive found caches in the forest with just an image too.."hmmm this darker spot is probably those pine trees over there..")

 

Thanks ThirstyMick, good job on that one. My fiancée grew up in Hell's Kitchen and her feisty Mom taught her the same key trick. Not sure how much faith I put in that, but it's probably at least a nicely reassuring placebo. Of course her dad also told if she's being raped, to chew out the guy's adam's apple; "he'll scream and scream but no-one will hear it".

 

Yup, that's my future family, bless 'em. :drama:

 

PS - if you get a 60csx, or any gps with a SIRF III chip, NY caches will be a lot easier. That thing got a lock in my house!

 

Take care,

 

-G

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I was being followed once and starting to feel uncomfortable so I pulled out my cellphone to loudly "tell my boyfriend, I was about a block away and should be there in about two minutes" The guy stopped following me.... of course most situations might not be so easily averted, but it worked that time... it was only one guy though...i think a group of 10-15 would have made me pee my pants! pepper spray might not be a bad idea.. When I was younger my mom taught me to walk with my keys spaced between my fingers when outside at night (didnt grow up in the nicest section of queens)..

 

I find it sad that it was a group of teenagers, why do kids do these things?! sigh... but im glad your alright (and glad to see that the experience hasn't crushed your geocaching spirit) Best wishes with the ankle..

 

i actually think for the remaining NY caches, im just going to print out google images..i've found it to work as well, if not better than the gps what with all of the buildings causing bounce; and it adds a different element to the hunt (ive found caches in the forest with just an image too.."hmmm this darker spot is probably those pine trees over there..")

 

Thanks ThirstyMick, good job on that one. My fiancée grew up in Hell's Kitchen and her feisty Mom taught her the same key trick. Not sure how much faith I put in that, but it's probably at least a nicely reassuring placebo. Of course her dad also told if she's being raped, to chew out the guy's adam's apple; "he'll scream and scream but no-one will hear it".

 

Yup, that's my future family, bless 'em. :drama:

 

PS - if you get a 60csx, or any gps with a SIRF III chip, NY caches will be a lot easier. That thing got a lock in my house!

 

Take care,

 

-G

 

chew on his adams apple :sad: yikes! but i guess that would work :sad:

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Sorry to hear about the attack, I think that I would have a hard time giving up my Digital SLR also. Even with insurance, there is just something about having someone TAKE something from you by force.

 

Check with your Homeowners, and ask them what amount of claim will effect your payment. It may be $2000, so you can do your claim and get at least part of your cost back (minus the deductable of course).

 

Although this really should not be required, there is something to be said about going in pairs. Someone is a LOT less likely to be attacked if you are with someone else. Check around your area, maybe you will find another cacher that you can join up with. Otherwise go with your girlfriend.

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Sorry to hear about the attack, I think that I would have a hard time giving up my Digital SLR also. Even with insurance, there is just something about having someone TAKE something from you by force.

 

Check with your Homeowners, and ask them what amount of claim will effect your payment. It may be $2000, so you can do your claim and get at least part of your cost back (minus the deductable of course).

 

Although this really should not be required, there is something to be said about going in pairs. Someone is a LOT less likely to be attacked if you are with someone else. Check around your area, maybe you will find another cacher that you can join up with. Otherwise go with your girlfriend.

 

Sadly no insurance :drama: We are going to check with the credit card as I bought the GPS in the last week, but we'll see. My girlfriend is into caching as much as I am (she found our first cache), but I have to say, I'm REALLY glad she wasn't with me for this. It might have prevented it, possibly, but I would take a bullet before seeing her get punched.

 

Thanks Sytar.

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That totally sucks. I'm sorry to hear it. The good thing is you got out of it mostly alright. You can save up for another GPSr, and a broken ankle can heal (Speedy recovery to you.) but life isn't so easily replacable. Ditto from me on the pepper spray. I'm not sure what kind of weapons laws they have in NYC except they only let the bad guys and cops have guns, but if it's legal perhaps look into a good 3" folder as well. If you do decide to carry a knife, I'd recommend finding out what the local laws are on the use of deadly force, although 15 to 1 odds would certainly make me fear for my life, the yardstick for use of deadly force in MA and many other places.

 

Again, I hope you make a quick recovery and that you'll be able to get out caching again before too long.

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Unfortunate things happen, folks.

 

It is no fun to give up your belongings, but the suggestions here of resistance, pepper sprays, knives, guns... be very careful!

 

Most likely any weapon you carry will be used against you.

 

In the OP's situation a can of pepper spray would likely have infuriated the muggers and caused him further bodily harm.

 

People don't meekly give up and lay down when you spray them with pepper spray. They often get quite mad and do their best to kick your fanny.

 

A mugger is bad, a thoroughly ticked-off mugger is much worse!

 

None of us wants to be a wuss - it doesn't fit our macho image - but none of us wants to be a statistic in a morgue either.

 

You don't have any possession, especially pride, worth getting hurt for.

 

Let them have it, you can replace it.

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The pepper spray to me sounds like a great idea.. the knife is almost as bad a carrying a gun. If you don't know how to use it effectivly, then your chances of having it work to your benifit drop quickly. The last thing you want to do is to give them a weapon to hurt, or God forbid, kill you with. Stick with the non-leathals...

 

As for your GF, i know what you mean. I cache with my wife and I would do the same for her. Although if things did get bad, I would make darn sure that she got away. :drama: Adrinaline does wonderfull things when you need it to.

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I agree with TAR, I think in this instance pepper spray would have led to much worse things. If you do wish to go that route:

The New York State Self-Defense Spray Law - Penal Law 265.20

Requires special labeling and control of sales. In order to purchase this product the law states:

 

• You must be over the age of 18.

• You must have no history of felony convictions or assaults.

• Product must be purchased from an authorized dealer, pharmacy or gun dealer.

• You must complete a form with your name, address, birth date and signature.

REMEMBER

• You can’t bring a spray from another state into New York.

• You can’t buy it online.

• You can’t give it to a minor.

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REMEMBER

You can’t bring a spray from another state into New York.

• You can’t buy it online.

• You can’t give it to a minor.

I suppose that's to be SURE out-of-towners are sitting ducks.

 

here's an interesting take on that:

 

if I am breaking the law to bring in pepper spray, i guess I might as well bring my gun. If I'm gonna be "hanged" I might as well make it worth my while. :drama:

 

I am SO glad i don't live in NY!

 

I see the mugger problem is solved by making sure they don't have pepper spray.

 

Sorry about you experience. I can't stand punks! Glad you got out (mostly) unhurt.

 

And yeah, I know it doesn't only happen in NY, but at least where I live the victim is not the bad guy if heshe defends hisherself- and we allow the means to be carried. :sad:

 

Again, sorry for your loss.

Edited by Confucius' Cat
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That is awful. I am glad that you filed a report with the PD. Unfortunetly, to be honest, youwill probably never see your GPS again. I like your attitude about getting off as good as you did. It just goes to show you that alot of places that we cachers think are good hiding spots are also the same areas that dirtbags maight want to hang out since it's out of the way. Good luck and you might contact the company that made your GPS with the story and see if they might help you get a deal on a new GPS. Companies love that kind of stuff if it can get them some good press, plus it's a right off for them.

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Sorry to hear about that man. In any situation like that there are many avenues you can take and decisions you can make. The correct decision would be the one that keeps you alive, so you did very well. So were these punks wearing those pants that are down below their butts? I just love watching them on "Cops"......they try to run from the police and their pants fall down around their ankles. Way to dress for the job, genius.......

I wonder if they chucked you GPSr when they couldn't figure out how to place a call on it....

 

Disclaimer: By no means am I implying that if you wear those pants that go down below your butt that you are a "punk" or have any criminal intention what-so-ever. I'm sure plenty of very nice kids with nothing but good intentions wear them. It's just my humble opinion that you look like a flipping idiot.

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Unfortunate things happen, folks.

 

It is no fun to give up your belongings, but the suggestions here of resistance, pepper sprays, knives, guns... be very careful!

 

Most likely any weapon you carry will be used against you.

 

In the OP's situation a can of pepper spray would likely have infuriated the muggers and caused him further bodily harm.

 

People don't meekly give up and lay down when you spray them with pepper spray. They often get quite mad and do their best to kick your fanny.

 

A mugger is bad, a thoroughly ticked-off mugger is much worse!

 

None of us wants to be a wuss - it doesn't fit our macho image - but none of us wants to be a statistic in a morgue either.

 

You don't have any possession, especially pride, worth getting hurt for.

 

Let them have it, you can replace it.

 

Agreed, having grown up in NYC (and haven't been back in over 20 years), I was taught that there is no point in being a dead hero, particularly if you are outnumbered. Pulling out a knife is a real bad idea if someone in the gang might have a gun, same with pepper spray. Lesson of life in NYC is not to walk around with anything of great value.

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So it turns out you cannot arm yourself with even just pepper spray in New York. Which means every innocent citizen there is a sitting duck for a criminal. What great logic. :drama:

 

Ah well...

 

As for the idea that "pepper spray will just make the mugger even madder" - that's if you are buying the WRONG kind of pepper spray. This stuff was originally formulated for grizzly bears. One that can chew a mugger to pieces if it felt like it. UDAP is the STRONG stuff. Yes, wimpy pepper spray would piss off a mugger. THIS stuff will take him out, period.

 

I had an incident with my own can of pepper spray, so I know it's effectiveness.

 

A year ago, I was making a turn in my large vehicle, when I heard a "thunk" on the floor. Wha-?

 

Suddenly, I could NOT breathe, and my eyes and my sinuses were like saltwater firehoses. I opened the window, parked it SO fast very crookedly because I couldn't see very well. (Actually I knew that particular side street, so I could park it there almost with my eyes closed, fortunately). Then I quickly grabbed my keys and and escaped the car.

 

Oh MAN... it took about 15 minutes for me to get my sight and my breath back. Then I aired out the car to see what the heck happened.

 

There is a safety lock on every UDAP can of pepper spray. I had left the safety off. The can fell because I had not secured it well, and it hit the floor - just for a microsecond. That was it. The can bounced off the top where the trigger was, and then landed on it's side. This meant the can simply spit a little, gave a small puff of it's power. And good LORD, that was way more than enough!

 

I now know by accident what a small non-direct puff of the stuff feels like to endure. A full blast in the face WILL stop a two-legged predator.

 

Put it this way... if there is a small 5 percent chance that it would not work, that is a chance I am willing to take... that means darn good 95 percent odds on my side, instead of 100% screwed by having no defense at all.

 

That and 6 good weeks of Krav Maga training when I can afford the price of the lessons someday. Think "martial art" without anything resembling art. Serious "good lord, that's some scary tactics!" street-fighting-style self-defense. It's already taught me why a knife can actually be harder to defend against than a gun.

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So it turns out you cannot arm yourself with even just pepper spray in New York. Which means every innocent citizen there is a sitting duck for a criminal. What great logic. :drama:

 

Ah well...

 

As for the idea that "pepper spray will just make the mugger even madder" - that's if you are buying the WRONG kind of pepper spray. This stuff was originally formulated for grizzly bears. One that can chew a mugger to pieces if it felt like it. UDAP is the STRONG stuff. Yes, wimpy pepper spray would piss off a mugger. THIS stuff will take him out, period.

 

I had an incident with my own can of pepper spray, so I know it's effectiveness.

 

A year ago, I was making a turn in my large vehicle, when I heard a "thunk" on the floor. Wha-?

 

Suddenly, I could NOT breathe, and my eyes and my sinuses were like saltwater firehoses. I opened the window, parked it SO fast very crookedly because I couldn't see very well. (Actually I knew that particular side street, so I could park it there almost with my eyes closed, fortunately). Then I quickly grabbed my keys and and escaped the car.

 

Oh MAN... it took about 15 minutes for me to get my sight and my breath back. Then I aired out the car to see what the heck happened.

 

There is a safety lock on every UDAP can of pepper spray. I had left the safety off. The can fell because I had not secured it well, and it hit the floor - just for a microsecond. That was it. The can bounced off the top where the trigger was, and then landed on it's side. This meant the can simply spit a little, gave a small puff of it's power. And good LORD, that was way more than enough!

 

I now know by accident what a small non-direct puff of the stuff feels like to endure. A full blast in the face WILL stop a two-legged predator.

 

Put it this way... if there is a small 5 percent chance that it would not work, that is a chance I am willing to take... that means darn good 95 percent odds on my side, instead of 100% screwed by having no defense at all.

 

That and 6 good weeks of Krav Maga training when I can afford the price of the lessons someday. Think "martial art" without anything resembling art. Serious "good lord, that's some scary tactics!" street-fighting-style self-defense. It's already taught me why a knife can actually be harder to defend against than a gun.

 

Remember in the case in question it was one against a group, which is pretty long odds, even with full strength pepper spray. I was taught in karate lessons a long time ago, that the wisest course of action was to retreat if possible and to fight as a last recourse. Taking on a group to protect you GPS would be lunacy.

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Remember in the case in question it was one against a group, which is pretty long odds, even with full strength pepper spray. I was taught in karate lessons a long time ago, that the wisest course of action was to retreat if possible and to fight as a last recourse. Taking on a group to protect you GPS would be lunacy.

 

Yeah... you ASSUME they are only wishing to take the GPS. One only can hope that the mob wants only whatever gizmo or cash you are carrying - and not more from you than that. Hope is only a feeling, it's not a defense. If you a guy though, chances are that your gizmo and/or your wallet all you have to worry about.

 

If you are female, you are better off learning how to fight, carry a weapon, and be ready to use it. I am female, and already have defended myself successfully with a knife once some years ago. Now I have pepper spray also as a distance weapon, and I hope that I will never need to use it.

Edited by Sparrowhawk
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Remember in the case in question it was one against a group, which is pretty long odds, even with full strength pepper spray. I was taught in karate lessons a long time ago, that the wisest course of action was to retreat if possible and to fight as a last recourse. Taking on a group to protect you GPS would be lunacy.

Agreed.

 

As a TKD black belt, I regularly practice such group fighting skills. Even with the wussy manner in which we practice, taking on no more than 3 or four at once who have the "courtesy" not to all attack at once, (what I am saying is "our practice is not very street-wise") it is quite obvious that trying to fight 15 will not work.

 

Even with a gun, the best course in this scenario is a good run.

 

From the sound of the OP, they did not even give him a chance to run.

 

When you unexpectedly get hit from behind, there is not much chance of winning.

 

Had they attacked me, the gang probably would have at least one knife and one gun now, if they didn't have one before.

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