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Garmin Unlock Changes

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I think the "No free update" thing is directly related to auto units.

 

I totally agree there CenTex.

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Most GPS users are VERY computer savy. It will only be a matter of time before someone figures out how to obliterate the unit lock downs. There is no such thing as hack proof software.

 

I Have been told that TOPO Great Britain has been CRACKED!!!!!! (No Unlock Key) <_<

 

The only "Cracks" I've seen are simply recompilations of the locked maps. When you do that you will loose

autoroting information and if the free version of cgpsmapper was used in the process you will also loose

address and phone numbers from POI's.

 

There does seem to be evidence that some people have the ability to generate unlock codes and charge to do so.

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I predict a registry crack to fully unlock the software
Can't happen. The lock is implemented in the GPSr, not on the PC.

 

You can install the map on as many PCs as you like. You can download the map to as many GPSrs as you like. But only the one or two GPSrs for which you unlocked the map will show it to you.

 

Some one will develop the Key Gen to allow "one" to generate the relevant unlock code

 

the lack of routing info on a GPS loaded Metroguide map has already been bypassed..

 

As some one else says .. there are a lot of savy folks out there ...

 

Please note I do NOT condone software piracy ..

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the lack of routing info on a GPS loaded Metroguide map has already been bypassed..

 

I would be willing to bet this is addressed on the next release of Metroguide...IF there is a next release of Metorguide.

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To get it from the horse's mouth I made the calls myself. Canadian version.

 

First I call RadioWorld (Garmin dealer/rep for Canada) where I bought both my GPS's from and they confirmed the "no more update" policy. They have not heard anything about the "one unlock code".

 

Second call to the 866 tech support line listed for Canada. Rep said the "one unlock code" is not confirmed but it is being strongly discussed and possiable, no date is set but it is in discussion.

 

Sounds like it letter writing time... maybe Garmin will back off this if there is enough noise made.

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I would be willing to bet this is addressed on the next release of Metroguide...IF there is a next release of Metorguide.

 

And that will be adressed in the next version of "thingy software" .. remember its just a game .. <start> the SW writers write protection .. some one rips its .. go back to <start>

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And that will be adressed in the next version of "thingy software" .. remember its just a game .. <start> the SW writers write protection .. some one breaks the law/steals .. go back to <start>

 

Fixed your post.

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And that will be adressed in the next version of "thingy software" .. remember its just a game .. <start> the SW writers write protection .. some one breaks the law/steals .. go back to <start>

 

Fixed your post.

 

And that, boys and girls is the reason we have all these copy protections devices in the first place. In order to protect their investment, they (and it is not just Garmin) put these thing in place that make it more difficult to copy the software, but it also (unfortunately) makes it more difficult for the rest of us to use as well.

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The latest from Garmin:

Thank you for contacting Garmin.

I am keeping a list of such emails to pass along and will add yours--absolutely.

This is the decision the higher-up’s in marketing have consciously made, though.

 

The second unit unlock was always a bonus thing for applicable situations, not something that could be sold or bought. It did not actually involve any kind of fee either in the original purchase price or on its own. It was just gravy IF a customer wanted it. Most people never used the extra slot. And now marketing admin has made the decision to elimiate it.

 

Speaking just personally I’m sympathetic, but that doesn’t mean much. I’ll see your message gets added to the feedback. I can do that.

 

Thank you again for your interest in Garmin GPS. Have you seen our online Map Viewer? Preview the basic data in many of the MapSource products firsthand.

 

http://www8.garmin.com/cartography/

 

Best regards,

Loy

mailto:cartography@garmin.com

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SAPD Miragee

Where is the site that told you about this?

 

I foresee a lot of unhappy people if they do not allow for grandfathering.

And even more unhappy people if the extra unlock/map prices stay the same.

 

I predict a registry crack to fully unlock the software
Can't happen.
I predict (correctly) that it has happened, years ago.

 

So, Am I correct in reading the above that a new policy is in the works saying:

New Road Maps will now come with one unlock

And you can no longer upgrade for free if you buy/register an old version?

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OK, I've written to Garmin twice, once to the mapping division, once to customer support, and I've called them twice, and I've gotten different answers every time. The answers range from I haven't heard anything about that" to "I know it's being discussed" to "No date has been set" to "It's a done deal". All this really tells me is that Garmin's internal communications are as bad as their external communications.

 

Speaking for myself, I believe that the rumors are true. If not, I would think that they'd make an announcement on their home page. Maybe if we scream loud enough they'll relent, but one thing's for sure: If I lose my unused unlock code, Garmin loses a customer.

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...one thing's for sure: If I lose my unused unlock code, Garmin loses a customer.

Ditto. I've been baching that Delorme GPS but it's starting to look pretty good after all.

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SAPD Miragee

Where is the site that told you about this?

 

There is nothing posted stating these new policies, it all comes from the Customer Support folks via phone calls.

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I predict a registry crack to fully unlock the software
Can't happen. The lock is implemented in the GPSr, not on the PC.

 

You can install the map on as many PCs as you like. You can download the map to as many GPSrs as you like. But only the one or two GPSrs for which you unlocked the map will show it to you.

with enough incentive for the right person, anything can happen. <_<

 

The unlock code is used to restore the encrypted map level / subdivision part in the TRE section. Additionally it seems to be needed for maps with routing information.

 

Whereas the first can be easily restored without decrypting, just using some side information of the file, the later is tricky. I suspect you have to create some index for autorouting. This index seems to be created by the unit using the unlock code. Additionally you can provide the index. I suspect the MetroGuide hack to do this. As I do not really have the need to break the lock, I never investigated further.

 

Please keep in mind that hacking the software you own violates laws in most civilized countries.

 

Oliver

oh but the devices themselves can be upgraded by connecting to the PC and reflashing the EPROMs. Garmin even has an application you download to do just that with their unit upgrades. What goes in can come out. What was built can be disected and rebuilt. What once asked for an unlock code could be instructed to not care. The device runs software just like any other little computer. If they can manage to hack the computer in my car to get 50 more Horsepower out it.. surely they can make a device accept any code as the valid code.

 

And yes... this will void your warrenty... and it is illegal... but it *can* happen... *they* just need a reason to make the effort.

Edited by mini cacher

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Even more disturbing, effective June 1 there will be no free second unlock code; this includes people who have already purchased the programs with the understanding the second unlock was available. Having just bought a 76CSx and a full version of CN8 I was counting on using the second code at a later date if I decided to buy another 76 for the wife. Now I will have to buy another GPS by June 1 or lose my second unlock code.

I'm no lawyer (got a "D" in my one business law course), but this would seem to me to be clearly illegal. When we purchased the product, it was clearly stated that it came with two unlock codes <_<

 

I'm not a lawyer either, but I would tend to agree.

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oh but the devices themselves can be upgraded by connecting to the PC and reflashing the EPROMs. Garmin even has an application you download to do just that with their unit upgrades. What goes in can come out. What was built can be disected and rebuilt. What once asked for an unlock code could be instructed to not care. The device runs software just like any other little computer. If they can manage to hack the computer in my car to get 50 more Horsepower out it.. surely they can make a device accept any code as the valid code.

 

And yes... this will void your warrenty... and it is illegal... but it *can* happen... *they* just need a reason to make the effort.

 

Concerning your car: That is not hacking just fiddling the characteristics of your motor. And it will destroy your motor on the long run.

 

Hacking the firmware image of a device sucks. If the unlock code is not used in a trivial way it's really hard. Any kind of disassembly is highly illegal and not of the sportive kind <_<

 

Concerning the time it would take to fix locking, I would rather spent the extra money for a new license.

 

A much more interesting idea would be an open hardware platform to implement our own ideas of a GPSr. Instead of whining about Garmin's bad software and upgrade policy, this would solve quite some problems.

  • decent geocaching support
  • use maps of any kind (bring competition to the market)
  • have a modular system with only the features you need
  • have a choice, no proprietary solutions.

The only problem I see with that from the software guy's point of view: Where to get the circuit board and good casing. Honestly, that was the reason why I chose a Garmin over a PDA. There is not much fun having a fragile PDA in the mountains. But maybe there is a hardware guy hanging around who really knows his trade and can help with that. Digging more and more into Garmin's mess this idea becomes more and more tempting

 

Oliver

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Here is the email I have sent garmin:

Hi-

I purchased a copy of City Navigator V8 North America sometime in March

of this year. I have used the enclosed unlock to access the map data

for my GPSMAP 60csx and had the understanding that I would be able to

unlock CN for a second gps unit if I was the ower of that gps. Now,

rumor has it effictive June 1, 2007 I will no longer be able to my

second unlock code? Can this be true?

 

 

And thre responce that I recieved:

Hello,

 

Thank you for contacting Garmin International.

 

I apologize for the inconvenience. June 1st, 2007 there will no longer

be a free 2nd unlock code available on City Navigator or the other

mapping products. As of May 1st, 2007 there are no longer free updates

for the City Navigator and City Select products for the following

countries: New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, Middle East and North

America. I apologize for any confusion.

Edited by ryan3295

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Hacking the firmware image of a device sucks. If the unlock code is not used in a trivial way it's really hard. Any kind of disassembly is highly illegal and not of the sportive kind :laughing:

 

Concerning the time it would take to fix locking, I would rather spent the extra money for a new license.

agreed... I was simply trying to explain that it could happen in response to the previous "can't happen". I certainly don't have the coding skills to disassemble a firmware image. But I know that some do. It only takes the right person with the right reason... likely not even $$$. Most "crack" makers do it for joy not money. Someone with the right skills AND a grudge against Garmin may be willing to spend the time it takes. The more Garmin messes with its customers, the more likely "that" person exists.

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Concerning your car: That is not hacking just fiddling the characteristics of your motor. And it will destroy your motor on the long run.

All motors get destroyed in the long run. The question is not only how long but how fun is the run. :laughing:

 

We now return you to your regulary scheduled topic...

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How much does a single unlock cost, say for CN8? Anyone unlocked a third unit?

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How much does a single unlock cost, say for CN8? Anyone unlocked a third unit?

 

Currently it is $75.00 to unlock additional units.

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How much does a single unlock cost, say for CN8? Anyone unlocked a third unit?

 

is that from the store or from someone here that has an extra one.

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....A much more interesting idea would be an open hardware platform to implement our own ideas of a GPSr. , this would solve quite some problems.

  • decent geocaching support
  • use maps of any kind (bring competition to the market)
  • have a modular system with only the features you need
  • have a choice, no proprietary solutions.

The only problem I see with that from the software guy's point of view: Where to get the circuit board and good casing. Honestly, that was the reason why I chose a Garmin over a PDA. There is not much fun having a fragile PDA in the mountains. But maybe there is a hardware guy hanging around who really knows his trade and can help with that. Digging more and more into Garmin's mess this idea becomes more and more tempting

 

Oliver

 

Who needs a circuit board? You have perfectly good GPS's that runs on firmware. While it may be illegale to modify Garmin firmware. It can be removed or replaced. You own the hardware and can install any firmware you want. Garmin, Lowrance, Brunton, Delorme. Heck even Cobra are all potential platforms.

Edited by Renegade Knight

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Concerning your car: That is not hacking just fiddling the characteristics of your motor. And it will destroy your motor on the long run.

All motors get destroyed in the long run. The question is not only how long but how fun is the run. :laughing:

 

We now return you to your regulary scheduled topic...

There is a setting that based on your driving would maximize the life of the motor. That may or may not be the factory defaults.

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As if Garmin didn't already basically have a license to print money.

 

Oh well. In the end, market forces will deliver the smack-in-the-face that Garmin has coming to them.

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As if Garmin didn't already basically have a license to print money.

 

Oh well. In the end, market forces will deliver the smack-in-the-face that Garmin has coming to them.

 

If you think Garmin is bad, then you should visit Walt Disney World and watch the money flow right out of your wallet :laughing: no printer needed!

Edited by moonpup

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My email to investor.relations@garmin.com

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

I have been following the news of the impending change to Garmin cartography product unlock code policy in a news forum that can be found at http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=162747 If you'll please take the time to review the responses, you'll find that Garmin is creating a great deal of ill will among the outdoor sports community. This concerns me greatly as a Garmin investor.

 

The prime differentiator between Garmin and other GPSr providers is Garmin's superior customer service. This customer service, as well as others' experiences gathered by word-of-mouth advertising, has benefited Garmin and has resulted in many sales of units and maps that I know of personally. To now jeopardize that good will by such an ill-conceived marketing decision is very puzzling to me. Garmin should be increasing value-add to their customers, not reducing it.

 

If this policy becomes a reality I am afraid that Garmin will soon be in the position of being just another GPSr provider in a market that is quickly becoming almost commoditized, with no differentiator to set it apart. Please pass this message to those in marketing who are responsible for this decision.

 

Kind regards,

Phil Cunningham

Edited by pcunningham

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I don't frequent the forums on a regular basis, and only stumbled across this thread by accident yesterday.

 

I've sent a request for clarification to Garmin and so far, have received no response. In the past 2.5 years between us we have bought a Rino 120, 60CS, 2 60CSx's, Topo, City Select, and City Navigator as well as all the proprietary cables, mounts for our cars, motorcycles, kayaks, and bicycles, an extra unlock for the City Select, and accessories. We've been very happy with our Garmin products as is evidenced by our not insignificant investment in their products. We tell folks all the time how great they are. I'm frankly flabbergasted that they could consider taking away what we paid for, especially without any notification as inexcusable, if not illegal.

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I did ask the Norwegian distributor about this.

 

They say that this one key solution will happen when v10 come out in Europe and I guess it will be for v9 in US.

 

So he told me that the one key policy is delayed until autumn when v10 would be released.

 

And you will not get a free upgrade to v10 from unused v8, v9 DVD, when v10 comes out.

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Disney World over my dead body.

 

Oh and I emailed Garmin and got this response:

 

"I hate to have to confirm it, but the second unit unlocks with the road

products are going away. If you wanted to update two units it would be

a matter of buying two update unlock codes."

 

Poopy.

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Disney World over my dead body.

 

Oh and I emailed Garmin and got this response:

 

"I hate to have to confirm it, but the second unit unlocks with the road

products are going away. If you wanted to update two units it would be

a matter of buying two update unlock codes."

 

Poopy.

 

So has anyone asked if they are changing data suppliers from NavTeq?

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I must be a little slow on the uptake, or still a bit confused from the 70s. Does this retroactively affect products previously purchased in good faith? I purchased City Select v7 a couple of years ago and the MapSource unlock certificate enclosed states:

 

Disclaimer: Your MapSource unlock code is valid for use with your own Garmin GPS unit. A separate unique unlock code is needed for each GPS unit. If you own more than one GPS unit or upgrade to a new GPS unit, you will need a separate code for each GPS unit. If you personally own two Garmin GPS units, you are allowed to obtain a second unlock code for the same region for your own personal use at no additional charge. Simply repeat the unlock process for the second unit. No more than two GPS units may be unlocked with the purchase of a single unlock code. A new unlock code must be purchased if you have already unlocked two GPS units. Information on obtaining additional unlock codes can be found at: www.garmin.com/unlock. This agreement provides a one-user license and it is illegal to share this data with others. We cannot give refunds or exchanged for MapSource unlock codes.

 

Garmin © Copyright 2004 Garmin Ltd. Or its subsidiaries.

 

[italics added by me].

 

If so, it would seem to be a great way for a company to put a big dent in it's customer friendly image so carefully cultivated over the years. :o

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Is it possible we only have half the story here?

 

Being a publicly traded company garmin can't really divulge allot of info about future products, ect. So is it possible they are planning to drop the price of the map software by half to correspond with unlock policy changes?

 

What would make me think this is EVERY review you read online of their handheld GPS receivers complains about the price of the required(if you want any good map detail) mapping software.....

 

just a thought

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I have figured out why Garmin did change their policy.

 

Someone has found out that after registering one code, they could download as many codes as they like to different GPS on that account. So instead of fixing the counting problem from on to two keys, the remove the two key options. This is confirmed from several.

Edited by jotne

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So has anyone been denied the use of the 2nd code yet? No? Thought so. Now excuse me I have to go forward 50 emails to all my contacts so Microsoft will give me a $1,000,000,000,000...........

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So has anyone been denied the use of the 2nd code yet?

 

No, but that's not really surprising, since everything said indicates that the policy doesn't take effect until June 1. I have, however, been told twice now by Garmin representatives that I will be denied the use of my second unlock code at that time. Just so we're clear, I'm talking about the second unlock code which promised to me on the paperwork in the package when I bought the software and was mentioned on their web site. The second unlock code that was part of my decision to upgrade to CN 8 in the first place, the lack of which will now certainly effect future buying decisions. That unlock code.

 

I'm thinking that the tactic of sitting quietly and trusting them not to do what they have already said they are going to do won't be that effective.

Edited by CheshireFrog

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So has anyone been denied the use of the 2nd code yet? No? Thought so. Now excuse me I have to go forward 50 emails to all my contacts so Microsoft will give me a $1,000,000,000,000...........

Instead of coming in here with an attitude, why not email or call Garmin to see if all the previous posters in the thread were simply making up the story just to alarm you?

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Hacking the firmware image of a device sucks. If the unlock code is not used in a trivial way it's really hard. Any kind of disassembly is highly illegal and not of the sportive kind :o

 

Concerning the time it would take to fix locking, I would rather spent the extra money for a new license.

agreed... I was simply trying to explain that it could happen in response to the previous "can't happen". I certainly don't have the coding skills to disassemble a firmware image. But I know that some do. It only takes the right person with the right reason... likely not even $$$. Most "crack" makers do it for joy not money. Someone with the right skills AND a grudge against Garmin may be willing to spend the time it takes. The more Garmin messes with its customers, the more likely "that" person exists.

 

This is precisely what happens in the gaming software world these days all the time. Look for any game title that is out there more than 3 months and you find the no-cd cracks all over the place.

 

There is a big misunderstanding between marketing people and the users. Many users of no-cd cracks aren't using them to illegally copy or share the software. The problem is that the copy protection mechanisms make it impossible to create a personal backup (which you are legally entitled to). So in case of loss or damage of the medium, the user can only try to get a replacement from the software vendor, which often is just as expensive as simply purchasing another copy of the software. So in order to protect the install CD's, they just don't want to use them all the time. Oh - yeah - and "I heard" the games load faster that way too :o

 

I actually did use the second unlock code for City Select to solve a very similar problem. After I lost my VistaC, I bought a GPSMAP 60CSx and continued to use the software that way. Under the new policy I would have to purchase a new copy of the mapping software as well.

 

All in all this whole policy change makes it much less of an issue to change vendors. If one can't save any investments by sticking to the same vendor on future purchases, one doesn't have to shop by vendor. This of course are sales losses they can't measure, so this will not backlash on those marketing specialists, who probably have a big party celebrating the estimated increase in mapping license revenue right now.

 

Jan

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So has anyone been denied the use of the 2nd code yet? No? Thought so. Now excuse me I have to go forward 50 emails to all my contacts so Microsoft will give me a $1,000,000,000,000...........

Instead of coming in here with an attitude, why not email or call Garmin to see if all the previous posters in the thread were simply making up the story just to alarm you?

 

I'm not alarmed, already used both my codes. :drama::wub::wub::sad::sad:

 

Until Garmin sets the policy it's all rumor and hearsay. Just because it came from an employee at Garmin doesn't mean much. Think about the rumour mill where you work. I know ours is about as accurate as the weather dude.

 

Also think about this....If it keeps the price down for awhile longer great. I really didn't need to use the second code but used it on the 60cs just cause I had it. If I had a choice I would have bought just one code at a lower price and kept just topo on the older gpsr.

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So has anyone been denied the use of the 2nd code yet? No? Thought so. Now excuse me I have to go forward 50 emails to all my contacts so Microsoft will give me a $1,000,000,000,000...........

 

If I had used the codes it wouldn't be a problem. Because I haven't and I do hope to upgrade my GPS to a new one, I'd like the option to use my 2nd code.

 

This isn't rocket science, but you seem to have missed something.

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... Just because it came from an employee at Garmin doesn't mean much. Think about the rumour mill where you work....

 

Who else should it come from? The rumor mill is more about who's sleeping with who, and who got canned for what. Products and services are another thing.

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So has anyone been denied the use of the 2nd code yet? No? Thought so. Now excuse me I have to go forward 50 emails to all my contacts so Microsoft will give me a $1,000,000,000,000...........

 

If I had used the codes it wouldn't be a problem. Because I haven't and I do hope to upgrade my GPS to a new one, I'd like the option to use my 2nd code.

 

This isn't rocket science, but you seem to have missed something.

 

Nope not rocket science and the only thing I missed is getting all worked up over a rumor. Good idea to email them and let your feelings be known. If it's true then time will tell if it was a bad business decision or not (can you say kmart). Don't forget to roll up the car windows I hear the sky is falling soon. :drama:

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...the only thing I missed is getting all worked up over a rumor. Good idea to email them and let your feelings be known.

 

That's Alledged rumor to you sir. They haven't yet responded to my email.

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...the only thing I missed is getting all worked up over a rumor. Good idea to email them and let your feelings be known.

 

That's Alledged rumor to you sir. They haven't yet responded to my email.

 

So when did this turn into a bashing contest?

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Received the e-mail below from Garmin regarding the unlock codes. Although I am sure it is a cannned response, it may be in our best intrest to send Garmin as many e-mails as possible regarding concerns for this new change. It is much easier to change a policy before it goes into effect then to try and change it after.

 

 

Thank you for contacting Garmin Cartography. I completely understand your position. We appreciate your feedback and are tracking the feedback on this particular issue very closely.

 

Please let me know if you have any other questions and thank you for your interest in Garmin.

 

Regards,

 

Nathan

________________________________________

From:

Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 12:53 PM

To: Cartography Mailbox

Subject: Policy Change for Unlock Codes

 

I am writing to express my complete and utter disappointment with the information I received today from your Customer Support Center. I called today to verify some information that appeared on Geocaching.com regarding changes in your company's upgrade and unlock policies. I verified that on 1 May 2007 a policy change went into effect basically eliminating free map upgrades. This would apply to anyone who activated an older version of a mapping program; then a new version was released a month later, basically forcing them to buy the new version if they wanted to update. While I can understand this decision to some degree, but what I cannot understand is why this new policy has not been released to your loyal customers. There has been nothing posted anywhere and I did not see anything about it on your website. Even more disturbing is the second, no notice policy change which will take effect on 1 June; no second unlock code for locked mapping programs! I was told that this change will apply to existing users who will lose their unused second unlock. I just purchased the full version of City Navigator 8, with the understanding that I would receive TWO unlock codes. I used one code on my new GPSMAP 76CSx and was saving the second for another GPS to be purchased at a later date. Now I am being told (via a web forum and not from Garmin) that I will lose my second code it I do not use it by 1 June. I paid for CN8 and two unlock codes, how does Garmin not intend to reimburse me for the remaining code they are taking away???? Why is there nothing official being announced to customers and retailers who are still selling these programs with the promise of receiving TWO unlock codes. Please be advised that this matter has been brought to the attention of all who visit the Geocaching.com website and to all other forums where Garmin GPSs' are discussed. I await your response to this total lack of customer support so I can post it for all to see.

 

A newly (very) dissatisfied Garmin customer.

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Also think about this....If it keeps the price down for awhile longer great. I really didn't need to use the second code but used it on the 60cs just cause I had it. If I had a choice I would have bought just one code at a lower price and kept just topo on the older gpsr.

 

So you choose to believe that the loss of the second unlock code is a rumor, but the drop in price is a fact? And you don't see a problem with pulling the second unlock code retroactively from users who paid full price, while possibly offering it at a reduced price to future buyers?

 

You're not worried because you've already used your second code. How nice for you. then this thread doesn't apply to you, does it?

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Until Garmin sets the policy it's all rumor and hearsay. Just because it came from an employee at Garmin doesn't mean much.

Does this mean the the new Astro GPSr that Garmin employees were talking sorry rumoring about doesn't mean its going to be released? :drama:

 

If a employee said in off hours that this was to happen, I would consider it a rumor. But were talking about people officially representing Garmin stating that the there will be changes. Just because its not past the date for it to change doesn't automatically make it a rumor.

The policy change is not written in stone and can be changed. (especially if people do not dismiss it as a rumor but rather send their concern to the company)

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...the only thing I missed is getting all worked up over a rumor. Good idea to email them and let your feelings be known.

 

That's Alledged rumor to you sir. They haven't yet responded to my email.

 

So when did this turn into a bashing contest?

Bashing?

The OP quoted Garmin. That moves this discussion beyond rumor. The post I quoted makes the assertion that it is a rumor. That's their alligation. Ok the sir was in line with their post, but bashing?

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Please keep in mind that hacking the software you own violates laws in most civilized countries.

 

Oliver

 

I don't have my EULA in front of my, but I suspect we don't OWN anything...we just bought a license to USE it.

 

But I'm picking nits. Your point is sound.

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...the only thing I missed is getting all worked up over a rumor. Good idea to email them and let your feelings be known.

 

That's Alledged rumor to you sir. They haven't yet responded to my email.

 

So when did this turn into a bashing contest?

Bashing?

The OP quoted Garmin. That moves this discussion beyond rumor. The post I quoted makes the assertion that it is a rumor. That's their alligation. Ok the sir was in line with their post, but bashing?

 

FWIW, RK, I took your "...alleged..." comment as harmless sarcasm.

Edited by 0ccam

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