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Premium Member Only Caches


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For the purposes of this post (and the rest of this topic if you use them), PM means premium members and PMO is premium member only cache.

 

I really, really think the option to make a cache for PMs only should be eliminated. It is very annoying to search on here, find that a cache has been published that hasn't been there before, only to find that the owner has made it only for PMs.

 

There are many times when this has happened to me, and I know of a few cachers who get the page published, set the cache for PMs only, and then enable it for everyone as soon as it has an FTF. Those are the caches I really don't like. I think we should all have a fair chance at getting an FTF, regardless of what cache it is or who the hider is.

 

It also is unfair to some groups of people. For instance, and I do not want to get into a debate about pricing and whether this is cheap or expensive, but for some people $30 a year for a premium membership may be too much. I am a kid, and I can neither afford it nor get parental permission to mail the payment in or use a credit card. For kids, at least kids like me who can't get a membership, PMOs are completely unfair.

 

What do all of you think?

Edited by icefall5
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half a million caches. plenty to choose from even if you don't find the pm caches.

 

half a million threads on this before as well. :(

 

1 month premium membership is 3 bucks, anyone can find that much. anyone. get the membership for a month, knock off all the premium caches if you really need to get them, then you are done.

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I think it's probably a good thing that you identified yourself as a kid, or you'd probably get flamed, though not by me.

 

If it's because you can't afford it, then I'm sure you could find some people to help you out. But because you say your parents won't let you do it, I'm sorry that there isn't much to be done. Wait until you're 18, I guess.

 

Premium Members already get an unfair advantage at FTF, because they get the instant notify. Face it, they're going to get it every time, even if the cache doesn't start as a PMO cache.

 

Having said that, they've paid for that right. That's what makes it fair. It wouldn't be fair for some people to pay and others get a free ride, while both get the same exact treatment.

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What do all of you think?

 

I tend to agree with you. I think pay-to-play caches violate the spirit of the game. After all, one of the points is that anyone with a GPSr can go cache hunting.

 

Besides, what is the benefit of having a cache for premium members only? I just don't see why anyone would do this. Fortunately, in my area, almost no one does.

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Unfortunately for me, there are many in my area which are, especially the ones which are PMO until the FTF, then they're opened to anyone.

I think that practice is particularly bad. Why 'stack the deck' so only a premium member can get FTF?

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My, you've opened the can of worms... :(

 

For the record, I do understand your point.

 

A lot of the 'subscriber only caches' are that way for a reason. Maybe the owner doesn't want it muggled; the theory here is with fewer people hunting for the cache, the less likely it would be for non-cachers to see someone looking for it. Or, the area where the cache is located is somewhat sensitive. Lower traffic, fewer new trails to the area, thereby keeping the natural splendor, well, natural. Or, the cache owner wants to reward people who pay to help support the service. Each cache owner has their own reasons, and I think they're completely valid, most of the time.

 

I took a moment to run a Pocket Query for the area - within 100 miles of your ZIP code, I find 63 MOC's. Any guesses as to how many non-MOC's in the same area? I hit 500 (that's the most you can PQ) at 18.0 miles. In the time I've been caching (about 5 months), I've not seen any caches in this area (I live just up the road) that have been switched from member's only to open after a FTF. What may be happening, is that as a Premium member, we can get e-mail notification when a cache is listed. Unless you're constantly updating the new cache listing page, you're not going to see it until it gets found a few times, and the weekly update is sent.

 

Not everybody can afford the Premium membership. I understand that. I didn't pick it up until I felt I was willing to commit quite a lot of time to this addic hobby. To me, the pittance is worth it; your milage may vary. The benefits are numerous.

Edited by PJPeters
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It wouldn't be fair for some people to pay and others get a free ride, while both get the same exact treatment.

You're right. But premium members already get lots of other things to make the membership worth the money (or so it seems from the description; while I'm not a premium member, I may well be if I start 'caching more).

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My, you've opened the can of worms... :(

 

A lot of the 'subscriber only caches' are that way for a reason. Maybe the owner doesn't want it muggled; the theory here is with fewer people hunting for the cache, the less likely it would be for non-cachers to see someone looking for it.

Bad theory. Really bad theory. All it takes is one intelligent vandal seeing one cacher to give away the location.

Or, the area where the cache is located is somewhat sensitive. Lower traffic, fewer new trails to the area, thereby keeping the natural splendor, well, natural.

If the area is that sensitive, there probably should not be a cache there at all.

Or, the cache owner wants to reward people who pay to help support the service.

And that's their right. That doesn't mean I like them exercising it -- as I said, it looks to me to be antithetical to the game we're playing. I know that not everyone may agree with me; that's why we have subscriber-only caches in the first place.

Each cache owner has their own reasons, and I think they're completely valid, most of the time.

For the record, many of the subscriber-only caches end up being opened up to everybody after a time.

Which is an interesting point in itself.

I took a moment to run a Pocket Query for the area - within 100 miles of your ZIP code, I find 63 MOC's.

I assume you're talking to icefall as "you"?

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It wouldn't be fair for some people to pay and others get a free ride, while both get the same exact treatment.

You're right. But premium members already get lots of other things to make the membership worth the money (or so it seems from the description; while I'm not a premium member, I may well be if I start 'caching more).

 

I don't necessarily disagree with you. Because both groups contribute differently, it would be inherently unfair for both groups to reap the same rewards. However, it's a matter of discretion as to how much more the premium members should get in return for their patronage. I'm not going to quibble over what that is, exactly, because there's no objective way to determine that. Maybe PMOCs go too far, but maybe they don't go far enough.

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For the purposes of this post (and the rest of this topic if you use them), PM means premium members and PMO is premium member only cache.

 

I really, really think the option to make a cache for PMs only should be eliminated. It is very annoying to search on here, find that a cache has been published that hasn't been there before, only to find that the owner has made it only for PMs.

 

There are many times when this has happened to me, and I know of a few cachers who get the page published, set the cache for PMs only, and then enable it for everyone as soon as it has an FTF. Those are the caches I really don't like. I think we should all have a fair chance at getting an FTF, regardless of what cache it is or who the hider is.

 

It also is unfair to some groups of people. For instance, and I do not want to get into a debate about pricing and whether this is cheap or expensive, but for some people $30 a year for a premium membership may be too much. I am a kid, and I can neither afford it nor get parental permission to mail the payment in or use a credit card. For kids, at least kids like me who can't get a membership, PMOs are completely unfair.

 

What do all of you think?

You asked me what I think... I think that you have a problem. Your problem is quite commonplace nowadays, even among many adults in our modern society. The problem consists of an attitude called "entitlement", wherein you want everything -- such as all of the listing, tracking and logging services of the geocaching.com listing service, and even all of the benefits reserved for those members who pay to support the site -- for free. In closing, I am curious: since you have established that you DO want ALL of the services and benefits of the geocaching.com service to be free of charge for all, whom do you expect to pay for all the costs (employees, programmers, hosting servers, custom programming, web access, bandwidth, etc.) of running the service and the site? Are you planning on making a lifetime 25 million dollar bequeathment today to geocaching.com to support all this work? If so, thanks much!

 

Lastly, I HATE it when people moan that things are unfair! No one ever promised you that life would be fair, and rather, you made an erroneous assumption at the starting point of this game. Rather than doing the moaning and complaining in which you are currently engaging, you would have a lot more fun in life and get a lot further in life if you would let go of that silly nonsense and instead go to your heart and feel and express gratitude and appreciation for all the wonders around you, including the geocaching.com listing service and PM caches.

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For the purposes of this post (and the rest of this topic if you use them), PM means premium members and PMO is premium member only cache.

 

I really, really think the option to make a cache for PMs only should be eliminated. It is very annoying to search on here, find that a cache has been published that hasn't been there before, only to find that the owner has made it only for PMs.

 

There are many times when this has happened to me, and I know of a few cachers who get the page published, set the cache for PMs only, and then enable it for everyone as soon as it has an FTF. Those are the caches I really don't like. I think we should all have a fair chance at getting an FTF, regardless of what cache it is or who the hider is.

 

It also is unfair to some groups of people. For instance, and I do not want to get into a debate about pricing and whether this is cheap or expensive, but for some people $30 a year for a premium membership may be too much. I am a kid, and I can neither afford it nor get parental permission to mail the payment in or use a credit card. For kids, at least kids like me who can't get a membership, PMOs are completely unfair.

 

What do all of you think?

I think you should ask for a membership for your birthday. A big reason that there is geocaching is because premium members pay. It's way better than the way that Social Security works. With Social Security you pay and someone else gets the money. In this case, we pay and we get some benefits like PQs. We also get special PMO caches that we can watch who visits the cache page. They gave those to us in appreciation for paying. :(
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My, you've opened the can of worms... :(

 

A lot of the 'subscriber only caches' are that way for a reason. Maybe the owner doesn't want it muggled; the theory here is with fewer people hunting for the cache, the less likely it would be for non-cachers to see someone looking for it.

Bad theory. Really bad theory. All it takes is one intelligent vandal seeing one cacher to give away the location.

Yup. Absolutely right. Or a lucky kid. Or the local bomb squad. It happens.

Or, the area where the cache is located is somewhat sensitive. Lower traffic, fewer new trails to the area, thereby keeping the natural splendor, well, natural.

If the area is that sensitive, there probably should not be a cache there at all.

Personally, if I had a cache in the back 40, and I've seen 'em, I wouldn't want everybody and their brother tromping a trail into my property. I would like the control.

Or, the cache owner wants to reward people who pay to help support the service.

And that's their right. That doesn't mean I like them exercising it -- as I said, it looks to me to be antithetical to the game we're playing. I know that not everyone may agree with me; that's why we have subscriber-only caches in the first place.

Each cache owner has their own reasons, and I think they're completely valid, most of the time.

For the record, many of the subscriber-only caches end up being opened up to everybody after a time.

Which is an interesting point in itself.

Again, owner's prerogative

I took a moment to run a Pocket Query for the area - within 100 miles of your ZIP code, I find 63 MOC's.

I assume you're talking to icefall as "you"?

I was, but I ran one for you. Sixty nine MOC's caches from your first find (which I'm using as your 'home point'), and 29.1 miles to reach 500.

 

From an earlier thread on a similar subject (No-Members cache)

See -- that cache makes a lot of sense. Maybe it will encourage even more folks to become non-members. This will allow the website to be less "commercial". Maybe if we are lucky enough, it will become so non-commercial that it won't be able to pay it's bills or upgrade equipment as the hobby grows. Then, the site will collapse completely -- and we can all ......

 

oh oh....

 

(note: for those of you that missed it -- the sarcasm was intended to be venomous)

 

Membership has its privileges.

Edited by PJPeters
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you had enough money to obtain a GPS unit so what is $30.00? How much did your GPS unit cost??

If you don't pay you don't get to play certain games, seems pretty easy to me. Just because i buy a set of golf clubs does that mean I can walk onto ANY golf course and play for free?? last time I checked I had to pay to play with those clubs. be thankful that there are so many free caches, and be thankful for the people who do pay to keep this site up & going. to me my $3.00 a month is like membership dues to a big, fun club and get to reap the benefits of the club. :(

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For the purposes of this post (and the rest of this topic if you use them), PM means premium members and PMO is premium member only cache.

 

I really, really think the option to make a cache for PMs only should be eliminated. It is very annoying to search on here, find that a cache has been published that hasn't been there before, only to find that the owner has made it only for PMs.

 

There are many times when this has happened to me, and I know of a few cachers who get the page published, set the cache for PMs only, and then enable it for everyone as soon as it has an FTF. Those are the caches I really don't like. I think we should all have a fair chance at getting an FTF, regardless of what cache it is or who the hider is.

 

It also is unfair to some groups of people. For instance, and I do not want to get into a debate about pricing and whether this is cheap or expensive, but for some people $30 a year for a premium membership may be too much. I am a kid, and I can neither afford it nor get parental permission to mail the payment in or use a credit card. For kids, at least kids like me who can't get a membership, PMOs are completely unfair.

 

What do all of you think?

You asked me what I think... I think that you have a problem. Your problem is quite commonplace nowadays, even among many adults in our modern society. The problem consists of an attitude called "entitlement", wherein you want everything -- such as all of the listing, tracking and logging services of the geocaching.com listing service, and even all of the benefits reserved for those members who pay to support the site -- for free. In closing, I am curious: since you have established that you DO want ALL of the services and benefits of the geocaching.com service to be free of charge for all, whom do you expect to pay for all the costs (employees, programmers, hosting servers, custom programming, web access, bandwidth, etc.) of running the service and the site? Are you planning on making a lifetime 25 million dollar bequeathment today to geocaching.com to support all this work? If so, thanks much!

 

Lastly, I HATE it when people moan that things are unfair! No one ever promised you that life would be fair, and rather, you made an erroneous assumption at the starting point of this game. Rather than doing the moaning and complaining in which you are currently engaging, you would have a lot more fun in life and get a lot further in life if you would let go of that silly nonsense and instead go to your heart and feel and express gratitude and appreciation for all the wonders around you, including the geocaching.com listing service and PM caches.

 

Vinny, while I realize you often go to an extreme in jest, I don't think the icefall will see that, and I'm not seeing that in this post.

 

I bolded a portion of your post, and would like to see what evidence you use to come to the conclusion that icefall One, has "an attitude called "entitlement"" And Two, "want ALL of the services and benefits of the geocaching.com service to be free of charge for all". I did not see him state that in your quoted post.

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OK, in spite of all the "justification" for PMO caches, the OP has a point.

 

Can you remember back to the first geocache you found? Were you a paying member at that time? I would venture a guess that most geocachers found a cache or two first before they coughed up money to join the site and take advantages of premium services. If there were only PMO caches around, do you think you'd have coughed up the money first to try it out? Maybe, but then again, maybe not.

 

My theory is that being able to find a cache without having to pay the money up front will net more new premium members for Groundspeak than the ridiculous idea of requiring people to pay money up front in order to find a cache, which is what those who hide PMO caches think they are doing; helping Groundspeak out by requiring such payment up front.

 

Anyway, that's my theory. I was a non-paying member for many years. I discovered that I liked the idea of the premium features - paperless geocaching and the pocket queries. I will never hide a PMO cache, myself. I understand some of the reasons why some people hide a PMO cache, but the idea that they are helping Groundspeak out by not allowing new people to try out geocaching on their PMO caches is simply shortsighted.

 

Ken

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Did someone else pay for your GPSr?

 

Did someone else pay for your car? Your insurance? Your GAS?

 

Did someone else pay for your cell phone? Your text messaging? Your uploaded ring tones?

 

Did someone else pay for your Ipod music downloads?

 

Did someone else pay for your computer? Your internet access?

 

Did someone else pay for your cable TV?

 

Did someone else pay for your Blockbuster DVDs?

 

Did someone else pay for your last 10 visits to McDonalds?

 

Nothing is free. Somebody pays for everything, somehow.

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I want I want I want, but I don't want to pay for it!

 

I really want a Red Ferrari F430, but I have to feed, and support my wife and two kids. Everyone else should pay for it, so I can be happy. :(

 

Quit being selfish kid. Mow your neighbors lawn, or rake leaves, or collect recyclables, so you can pony up the three bucks.

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I paid $3.00 for a gallon of gas today.

Lucky you. I popped out $3.30 at the CHEAP place for a tank that cost me $73.00 :(

 

I'm pretty sure the OP didn't want to argue about prices, though.

 

I'll bet the OP could pony up $6 or $9 and buy a money order and send THAT in without having to get permission from his parents and try out the PM privileges... Probably pick off a good number of PMO caches in that amount of time, too, if that is what he really wanted to do. Since he has been caching a while, it could be time to try out the big league. ;)

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I paid $3.00 for a gallon of gas today.

Lucky you. I popped out $3.30 at the CHEAP place for a tank that cost me $73.00 :(

 

I'm pretty sure the OP didn't want to argue about prices, though.

 

I'll bet the OP could pony up $6 or $9 and buy a money order and send THAT in without having to get permission from his parents and try out the PM privileges... Probably pick off a good number of PMO caches in that amount of time, too, if that is what he really wanted to do. Since he has been caching a while, it could be time to try out the big league. ;)

 

In order to use a Money order you must buy a years membership at $30. That is how I pay for mine.

Edited by Airmapper
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I paid $3.00 for a gallon of gas today.

Lucky you. I popped out $3.30 at the CHEAP place for a tank that cost me $73.00 :(

 

I'm pretty sure the OP didn't want to argue about prices, though.

 

I'll bet the OP could pony up $6 or $9 and buy a money order and send THAT in without having to get permission from his parents and try out the PM privileges... Probably pick off a good number of PMO caches in that amount of time, too, if that is what he really wanted to do. Since he has been caching a while, it could be time to try out the big league. :(

It's over $3.50 here for regular. It's supposed to hit 4 bucks by the end of the month. ;)
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There aren't a ton of PMO caches out there apparently, judging from my area and the areas that others have previously posted on this thread. What a cache owner wants to do in regards to access to their cache is ultimately up to them. They took time to plan the cache, money for the container and its contents and placed it out there. It's their baby. They didn't have to hide a cache at all.

 

In terms of FTF, yeah a premium member has an advantage no matter what. To the OP, if you haven't got the money or parental permission to send said money in for a premium membership I'm guessing you don't have a car that you can drive so you can get to a trail head at sunrise or maybe earlier in order to find a cache first, not to mention parental permission for such if it happens to be within walking or biking distance. FTF can be a fun thing to go for from time to time, but finding the cache itself, whether you're first, second, third or three hundredth to find is what it's really all about. Have fun and live for the hunt. There are plenty of caches out there for you to find. Count yourself lucky to have a great activity that you enjoy to do. Go out and have some fun. <old man voice>Why back in my day, there was no geocaching. When I was a kid I had to walk in the woods without ammo cans and Tupperware to find! Uphill both ways! With no shoes!</old man voice> :(

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I don't think most people come to these forums to get bullied. If people have different opinions they could at least be kind and nice while voicing their opinion. If they can't do that, maybe some should just take the high road.

 

I see no point in MOC. It seems more like an irritant than anything. Why should $3/month allow one group to get/log a cache when others cant? I don't see the purpose at all. The difference between the two groups - $3. Thats it. So why should $ be the determining factor?

 

I do see a point in paid memberships though. They make sense and are very useful for many reasons.

 

I understand that not everyone can have a paid membership. It up to each individual and no one should be criticized for having or not having one.

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I would like to see what evidence you use to come to the conclusion that icefall has "an attitude called "entitlement"" And Two, "want ALL of the services and benefits of the geocaching.com service to be free of charge for all". I did not see him state that in your quoted post.

 

It might have been difficult to find, so I cut out everything except the entitlement whining:

 

I think we should all have a fair chance at getting an FTF, regardless of what cache it is or who the hider is.

It also is unfair to some groups of people.

For kids, at least kids like me who can't get a membership, PMOs are completely unfair.

 

Perhaps icefall has a different definition of "fair" than I do? In my little version of reality, I pay $30 a year, while he pays nothing. Fair to me would mean I get services or treatment that he does not. Fair to me also means that the owners of this website get to determine what additional services I get for my $30. Now, if Groundspeak made everything exactly equal across the board for paying members as well as non paying members, that would seem "unfair" to me. His attitude is the ultimate personification of the entitlement generation. He wants the premium benefits handed to him for free, and if he doesn't get them, he yells, "Foul!"

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seems that the pm caches are something that some non-pm people want.

 

good incentive to become a pm.

 

more pm's means more money for the site, hopefully better servers, less wait for pulling up pages, running pocket queries, etc.

 

everybody wins. even the non-pms.

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I don't think most people come to these forums to get bullied. If people have different opinions they could at least be kind and nice while voicing their opinion. If they can't do that, maybe some should just take the high road.

 

I see no point in MOC. It seems more like an irritant than anything. Why should $3/month allow one group to get/log a cache when others cant? I don't see the purpose at all. The difference between the two groups - $3. Thats it. So why should $ be the determining factor?

 

I do see a point in paid memberships though. They make sense and are very useful for many reasons.

 

I understand that not everyone can have a paid membership. It up to each individual and no one should be criticized for having or not having one.

 

Good points about being nice to posters...I agree completely there.

 

Why should $ be the determining factor in finding caches?

Why should $ be the determining factor in who can run pocket queries?

Why should $ be the determining factor in who can run the insta-notify?

etc. etc.

 

It's one of the benefits of the paid membership. I have the ability to create MOC. I've done a couple out of curiousity, but as many have pointed out here, if there was a rash of 80% of the new caches were MO, it could be a problem. As it is, it's a very small number of caches and if you want to find those, tag along with a member or pay the fee.

 

If you don't want to pay, that's fine by me....but understand you lose the benefits that I choose to pay for.

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I understand that not everyone can have a paid membership. It up to each individual and no one should be criticized for having or not having one.

I agree whole heartedly. Don't belittle folks who choose not to become PM's.

Wait till they fire up the entitlement machine and belittle them for whining. :(

 

I think Kit Fox said it best: "I want, I want, I want....and you should pay for it for me"

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You asked me what I think... I think that you have a problem. Your problem is quite commonplace nowadays, even among many adults in our modern society. The problem consists of an attitude called "entitlement", wherein you want everything -- such as all of the listing, tracking and logging services of the geocaching.com listing service, and even all of the benefits reserved for those members who pay to support the site -- for free.

No. This is not what Icefall said, at least as I read it. Icefall simply said that ey did not like the idea of PMOCs. Nowhere did ey say that ey objected to the other PM benefits.

In closing, I am curious: since you have established that you DO want ALL of the services and benefits of the geocaching.com service to be free of charge for all,

Icefall has established no such thing, nor has anyone else on this thread. Those are your words, no one else's.

Lastly, I HATE it when people moan that things are unfair!

And I hate it when people put words in others' mouths.

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For the purposes of this post (and the rest of this topic if you use them), PM means premium members and PMO is premium member only cache.

 

I really, really think the option to make a cache for PMs only should be eliminated. It is very annoying to search on here, find that a cache has been published that hasn't been there before, only to find that the owner has made it only for PMs.

 

There are many times when this has happened to me, and I know of a few cachers who get the page published, set the cache for PMs only, and then enable it for everyone as soon as it has an FTF. Those are the caches I really don't like. I think we should all have a fair chance at getting an FTF, regardless of what cache it is or who the hider is.

 

It also is unfair to some groups of people. For instance, and I do not want to get into a debate about pricing and whether this is cheap or expensive, but for some people $30 a year for a premium membership may be too much. I am a kid, and I can neither afford it nor get parental permission to mail the payment in or use a credit card. For kids, at least kids like me who can't get a membership, PMOs are completely unfair.

 

What do all of you think?

 

I don't think we have even come close to 'bullied' ; look at the question asked to everyone about this topic... and everyone has a right to their thoughts, etc... When someone writes: What do all of you think? then it's fair game for ALL thoughts & ideas, or then we will lose the idea with this forum? Are we to be 'PC' even with this forum? Are to to 'sugar-coat' are replies as not to offend anyone? Oh, we might turn some-one away from cachig & give us a bad name?! A question was asked and The replies have been great!

I think those who don't want to pay should go & spend the time, money & effort with THEIR $$$ for a geocaching website and then they can't complain at all. :(

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It might have been difficult to find, so I cut out everything except the entitlement whining:

 

I think we should all have a fair chance at getting an FTF, regardless of what cache it is or who the hider is.

It also is unfair to some groups of people.

For kids, at least kids like me who can't get a membership, PMOs are completely unfair.

 

FTF is not "alll the services". This is not entitlement whining, IMHO. It is a reasonable comment about a benefit of premium membership that currently exists, but may be unjustified.

 

If anytime someone questions the current benefit structure, we label it "entitlement whining", then where does that leave us?

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Personally, if I had a cache in the back 40, and I've seen 'em, I wouldn't want everybody and their brother tromping a trail into my property. I would like the control.

I do not think that making it a PMOC would achieve this. Even a PMOC is visible by about 54000 people. Sure, they're not all going to be in a position to visit, but 54000 people is still a large pool, too large to represent any real control, IMHO. If you want control over your own back-40 cache, publish it on TerraCaching, or on your own private website.

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If it will make the OP feel better - I will pop for his $3 this month.

I can't speak for the original poster, but for me, that completely misses the point.

Not if the point is unable/unwilling to get a PM and unable/unwilling to ignore MO caches.

 

Otherwise it is just whining.

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So your saying everyone that works for this sight should do it for free. Well if thats the what you want then we should all work for free. Suck it up and pay the $30. You probably pay more for soda or coffee in a month. FTF is nothing if thats all you want then your not really playing the game. Also i know many kids that are premium members and they paid for it. Sorry that all you are going for it FTF. enjoy the cache

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I don't think most people come to these forums to get bullied. If people have different opinions they could at least be kind and nice while voicing their opinion. If they can't do that, maybe some should just take the high road.

 

...

 

I do see a point in paid memberships though. They make sense and are very useful for many reasons.

 

I understand that not everyone can have a paid membership. It up to each individual and no one should be criticized for having or not having one.

Gaak! I agree with Knight. Odd... I don't think that's happened before. Hmm...

Anyway, checking the profile of the OP, he's a 13 year old kid. Not too many (real) jobs available for him. A premium subscription may be completely out of reach for him. He's most likely dependant on his parents, who probably work (his hometown is essentially a suburb) several miles away from home. Gas prices are extortionate. Groceries and gas to get to and from work, or a frivilous (and it really is) expense for the kid? He's already pretty active: Scouting (been there!), swimming, water polo. Lots of activities, not a lot of free time until summer. Not a lot of thought there. Yeah, he could mow the neighbors' lawns, and that could help. Let's not beat the kid up too much here. He brought a (in his opinion) honest complaint here for honest, open debate.

Quite possibly the root of the issue:

...There are many times when this has happened to me, and I know of a few cachers who get the page published, set the cache for PMs only, and then enable it for everyone as soon as it has an FTF...
I just don't see that as true. I said it in an earlier post, and I'll say it again. The reason premium members get these more often than not is that they get e-mails. I've run out of the house in the middle of the night simply because I've gotten THE e-mail. You know the one: [GEO] Notify: [reviewer] published [insert cache name here] (Traditional Cache). How many of you FTF Hounds have done that? Now that I've gotten a few, I won't go jumping out for many more. Unless it's in that park across the street. Or just down the road. Or... umm... nevermind.

 

I wouldn't give up my paid membership for anything, right now. Just the Pocket queries alone, are worth it.

Edited by PJPeters
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So your saying everyone that works for this sight should do it for free.

I realize that several people have said this already, but it's still a straw man. Can you show me any place on this thread where it is suggested that premium membership be abolished? That's right, you can't. Because no one is suggesting that. We're just arguing about whether access to certain caches should be a privilege of premium membership.

 

Sheesh.

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I would like to see what evidence you use to come to the conclusion that icefall has "an attitude called "entitlement"" And Two, "want ALL of the services and benefits of the geocaching.com service to be free of charge for all". I did not see him state that in your quoted post.

 

It might have been difficult to find, so I cut out everything except the entitlement whining:

 

I think we should all have a fair chance at getting an FTF, regardless of what cache it is or who the hider is.

It also is unfair to some groups of people.

For kids, at least kids like me who can't get a membership, PMOs are completely unfair.

 

Perhaps icefall has a different definition of "fair" than I do? In my little version of reality, I pay $30 a year, while he pays nothing. Fair to me would mean I get services or treatment that he does not. Fair to me also means that the owners of this website get to determine what additional services I get for my $30. Now, if Groundspeak made everything exactly equal across the board for paying members as well as non paying members, that would seem "unfair" to me. His attitude is the ultimate personification of the entitlement generation. He wants the premium benefits handed to him for free, and if he doesn't get them, he yells, "Foul!"

 

Thank you Clan R! I am always amazed when this topic comes up and the person somehow thinks he or she is entitled to or is being mistreated. Its very simple, if a person wants those extra benefits, then that person needs to pay for those extra benefits.

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So your saying everyone that works for this sight should do it for free.

I realize that several people have said this already, but it's still a straw man. Can you show me any place on this thread where it is suggested that premium membership be abolished? That's right, you can't. Because no one is suggesting that. We're just arguing about whether access to certain caches should be a privilege of premium membership.

 

Sheesh.

so your saying people should buy the premium and get nothing from it.

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so your saying people should buy the premium and get nothing from it.

No. Read this post again, and please don't put words into my mouth.

 

Basically we get PQs and bookmarking ability those are the big two. The Cache are just a perk if you dont like them then dont hunt them or pay the $30 for a year. Im a poor college student no car, tons of homework, classes, and many others things but I still like many other people cough up the $30 to support a sport I Love.

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Basically we get PQs and bookmarking ability those are the big two.

Right. That's $30 worth of premium services right there.

Im a poor college student

Ah, that would explain the spelling, then. :(

 

No need for the insults here.

 

We are basically aruging a subject that is moot Geocaching.com controls what they offer so why are we even arguing

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