Hoarding Bugs and Coins in a cache

April 30, 2007

A nearby cache owner is hoarding coins and bugs but the worst part is he lists them as inventory in his 'home' cache. However, if you physically go to the cache, there are NO bugs or coins in there; the cache appears to be at his residence, but there is no note saying anything like 'inquire inside to see bugs, etc'. (we drove 35 miles yesterday to visit that cache. stupid us!) After some research (checked history of the bugs, etc) it appears he is 'keeping them to show at events'. What is the purpose of this? Why doesn't he just show them as 'in the hands of.....'?? That way innocent, unsuspecting cachers like us won't be decieved into finding that cache with hopes of trading or moving bugs, coins, etc. I think this is not only unethical, but totally dishonest. When my partner asked the owner about it his reply was: "yeah, those are my special coins that were given to me by a reviewer and other original cachers. They travel with me to events but do not leave my hand. I just logged them in this cache to signify they are home."

What do you think? Can we report this person to GC.com? Will they remove his 'home' cache? This person has a gazillion finds and a ton of hides, also. I guess it just really irked us because it was 93+ degrees out yesterday as we were hunting these caches, most of which were his and were either skirts or dirty nasty bushes. Sure did nothing for our temperament so when we finally got to his 'home' cache and found it empty that was the final straw! I'd like to hear what others have encountered, if this is typical, if not suggestions. You can tell his attitude by his reply to our inquiry.

Thanks and cache on!

1.1k · April 30, 2007

seems to be a fairly standard practice around here.

whenever an event is going to be coming up within 50 miles or so, for the weeks beforehand, all travelbugs pretty much disappear from the caches in the area as people hoard them to bring to the event.

most of them come back after the event, many never do.

seems like a horrible practice to me, but until one of my TBs gets lost because of one, I guess the only effect it has on me is mere annoyance.

April 30, 2007

If these are coins and bugs that he owns, there's not much you can do about it. If he's keeping bugs and coins that belong to other cachers, it's up to each TB or coin owner to give permission or ask that he move them along.

April 30, 2007

Thanks. My concern is not that he owns the bugs/coins, but that he represents the cache as having them in there (to trade, etc). I guess we will just stay away from his caches, and hopefully others will not go there in hopes of placing/trading bugs or coins. I would be livid if my bug turned up in his hands!

Edited April 30, 2007 by fishingwishing

1.8k · April 30, 2007

The truest explanation of his motives would have to come from him, therefore I say send him a pm with your questions. Publish the answer, if one received here for us, or publish his name so whe know whose caches to avoid.

9.3k · April 30, 2007

his reply was: "yeah, those are my special coins that were given to me by a reviewer and other original cachers. They travel with me to events but do not leave my hand. I just logged them in this cache to signify they are home."

I highlighted the relevant portion of the sentence. These are apparently his coins, and he can do with them what he wishes. No foul. Had he hoarded someone else's coins, the situation would be different. Was your drive solely to log a coin, or were you seeking a cache? I've got three coins which were gifts from fellow cachers. These will probably never be activated.

Edited April 30, 2007 by Clan Riffster

11.3k · April 30, 2007

Usually people who have personal coins will log them into one of their Archived caches, or a cache page they created but which never went "live." To list personal coins and bugs as being in an active cache seems pretty inconsiderate to me.

April 30, 2007

Thanks, folks. We were there seeking the cache, but my partner specifically chose that cache to trade bugs/coins. Didn't happen, obviously. I don't know if those are actually his, but you are right, Trucker Lee, and I will pm him and see what he says. I'll try to be nice, too! lol.

Edited April 30, 2007 by fishingwishing

7.3k · April 30, 2007

To list personal coins and bugs as being in an active cache seems pretty inconsiderate to me

Yes, that's the crux. It may not have occurred to him that people are coming to the cache expecting to see those coins. If he has "a gazillion finds and a ton of hides" then likely he has an archived hide where he can drop them.

Yes, he could just have them in his inventory too, but then when he had a bug or coin to move, he'd have a long list of stuff to paw through each time to find the active one that he needed to move.

I think this is just his failing to understand that there's a better way to hold those coins/TBs. He can even write up a new cache, disable it so it never goes on queue, and dump them there. Anything but in an active hide where folks will be disappointed when the travelers aren't really there.

April 30, 2007

I think it is wrong. If it says it is in the cache that is where they should be.

I know a local cacher near where I live who is realy into geocoins and has quite a collection. He set up a puzzle cache in which he stores his coins. They really are there and when he takes them to Events he logs them out so that they show they are in the hands of the "owner".

If he has been given them why do some of them still show on their pages that they want to move cache to cache. Seems to me he thinks he is doing us mere geocachers a favour by taking them to events for us to look at. Why doesn't he take his own (has over 500). As for the Jeeps my understanding was they were designed to travel between caches not events and if they stay at events there is no way I would be able to log one.

It would seem after a bit more hunting around that the ones he owns are all 'in' an archived cache, which I have no issue with. I know if I went to a cache on purpose to log geocoins and there were none there and the the cache owner was doing it on purpose I would not be impressed. Actualy I would almost feel justified in logging them as discovered without seeing them seeing as he says they are 'in' the cache. Unfortunately I don't think there is much that you/we can do to stop people doing this. I am not sure boycotting their caches would work as there is no way you could make sure they weren't logged by anyone at all (nearly 200 hides).

Did you note in your log that the coins were not there so at least the next person would know before they got there?

April 30, 2007

Just looking at the cache with his coins in and he has got a smiley face for every coin dropped off!

No wonder he has so many finds!!!

2.5k · April 30, 2007

Just looking at the cache with his coins in and he has got a smiley face for every coin dropped off!

No wonder he has so many finds!!!

I looked at that too. Maybe I missed something? The coins were sropped back in those caches with a "note" not a "found it". Would you PM me if I missed something, please?

3.3k · April 30, 2007

his reply was: "yeah, those are my special coins that were given to me by a reviewer and other original cachers. They travel with me to events but do not leave my hand. I just logged them in this cache to signify they are home."

I highlighted the relevant portion of the sentence. These are apparently his coins, and he can do with them what he wishes. No foul. Had he hoarded someone else's coins, the situation would be different. Was your drive solely to log a coin, or were you seeking a cache? I've got three coins which were gifts from fellow cachers. These will probably never be activated.

None of the coins have him listed as the owner, if the "Chateau" is cache in question.

Just looking at the cache with his coins in and he has got a smiley face for every coin dropped off!

No wonder he has so many finds!!!

He posted notes for each coin drop, which means he does not receive a smiley for his log.

April 30, 2007

None of the coins have him listed as the owner, if the "Chateau" is cache in question.

Yep, you're right. That's the cache, and I checked and he doesn't 'own' any of them ... Wow. So it's intentional, not just a misunderstanding on his part, eh? He has a ton of finds, caches, etc and I don't care at all about the numbers, my friend and I are in it for the fun. But this is no fun.

I definitely intend to boycott his caches, don't plan to visit any of them anymore (they were mostly dirty bushes and skirts anyway) but it would be nice to warn future cachers. Both my partner and I posted logs with 'NO BUGS NO COINS IN HERE' but I understand he is able to delete them if he chooses (hasn't so far). I also pm'd him last night asking him why doesn't he just keep them 'in his hand' or even note in the cache the bugs are available if you inquire inside (I think it might be his house where they're at).

Anyway, thank's all. We were just concerned that we were off base and that perhaps this is a 'typical' way to handle the bugs. I appreciate the validation from everyone and hope other new cachers aren't turned off by this type of inconsiderate behavior. Also, I hope he is an exception, rather than a rule!

Cache on!

Fishingwishing

April 30, 2007

One more thing... I looked back and there are tons of 'coin drop' or 'bug drop' NOTES in his cache. There are a 'drop' and 'grab' note on the date that my partner and I went, but the notes were not there at the time that I logged the find. Do all these notes mean that he is actually logging the bugs in and out for events? That surely wasn't the case Saturday when we were there - the bugs were all in his inventory before and after we found the cache. I don't want to point a finger at him if he is really doing it correctly and I'm missing something.

May 1, 2007

One more thing... I looked back and there are tons of 'coin drop' or 'bug drop' NOTES in his cache. There are a 'drop' and 'grab' note on the date that my partner and I went, but the notes were not there at the time that I logged the find. Do all these notes mean that he is actually logging the bugs in and out for events? That surely wasn't the case Saturday when we were there - the bugs were all in his inventory before and after we found the cache. I don't want to point a finger at him if he is really doing it correctly and I'm missing something.

After the cache was archived they are posted as notes, but before it was archived (I read all the logs) the were posted as finds. Not many people actualy found this cache if you take all his logs out.

May 1, 2007

None of the coins have him listed as the owner, if the "Chateau" is cache in question.

Yep, you're right. That's the cache, and I checked and he doesn't 'own' any of them ... Wow. So it's intentional, not just a misunderstanding on his part, eh? He has a ton of finds, caches, etc and I don't care at all about the numbers, my friend and I are in it for the fun. But this is no fun.

Just to point out here...The Lackey Coin, the Reviewer's coins, and the Moun10bike coin will not show as being owned by them. Those coins are gifted or traded to cachers to keep in their collections, but ownership is frequently (if not always) retained by Signal, the reviewer, or Moun10bike so his keeping them should not be an issue. That doesn't explain everything, but it does explain 4 of the coins.

After the cache was archived they are posted as notes, but before it was archived (I read all the logs) the were posted as finds. Not many people actualy found this cache if you take all his logs out.

I'm not sure which cache you are looking at, but the cache being referenced is NOT archived, and the owner has posted things as notes rather than finds. Logs don't change from finds to notes when a cache is archived.

2.3k · May 1, 2007

After the cache was archived they are posted as notes, but before it was archived (I read all the logs) the were posted as finds. Not many people actualy found this cache if you take all his logs out.

I'm not sure which cache you are looking at, but the cache being referenced is NOT archived, and the owner has posted things as notes rather than finds. Logs don't change from finds to notes when a cache is archived.

I think he is referring to the 32 or so find logs on this archived cache.

However, if you check his profile you see he started caching in January of last year. Most (about 25 or so) of those find logs were just a few months after he started. There are a number of other find logs mingled throughout tons of notes. It looks like at some point he figured out he shouldn't be using find logs, but just never went back and changed the finds to logs. The other ones look like just accidental since they are in the middle of tons of notes.

I don't know the guy. These are just my observations.

May 1, 2007

After the cache was archived they are posted as notes, but before it was archived (I read all the logs) the were posted as finds. Not many people actualy found this cache if you take all his logs out.

I'm not sure which cache you are looking at, but the cache being referenced is NOT archived, and the owner has posted things as notes rather than finds. Logs don't change from finds to notes when a cache is archived.

I think he is referring to the 32 or so find logs on this archived cache.

However, if you check his profile you see he started caching in January of last year. Most (about 25 or so) of those find logs were just a few months after he started. There are a number of other find logs mingled throughout tons of notes. It looks like at some point he figured out he shouldn't be using find logs, but just never went back and changed the finds to logs. The other ones look like just accidental since they are in the middle of tons of notes.

I don't know the guy. These are just my observations.

Gotcha. Thanks for the link.

May 1, 2007

When I find a cache with missing travel bugs or coins I make a public bookmark for that cache. This puts a "note" on the cache page right under the inventory section. I believe that the owner can't remove it and it is very visible. I would like to ask everyone that dislikes missing bugs and coins to bookmark those caches. I also ask the cache and bug owners to move the missing items to "unknown location". I wait two weeks for them to do it and if they don't I then ask Eartha to do it. So far this is working well.

May 1, 2007

When I find a cache with missing travel bugs or coins I make a public bookmark for that cache. This puts a "note" on the cache page right under the inventory section. I believe that the owner can't remove it and it is very visible. I would like to ask everyone that dislikes missing bugs and coins to bookmark those caches. I also ask the cache and bug owners to move the missing items to "unknown location". I wait two weeks for them to do it and if they don't I then ask Eartha to do it. So far this is working well.

Gosh, you folks are great. I don't know who Eartha is (GC??) but I could do the bookmark thing. I pretty much washed my hands of this mess and decided not to get involved in the 'coin' activity at all ... sounds like it is too much big business for me. I'm in this for the fun and there doesn't seem to be much fun in that. I would like to have a few personal bugs wandering around and hopefully they will stay in circulation - no intrinsic value in hoarding them, eh?

Thanks again all for your support and suggestions. I never received a reply to my pm to this person so I gather he isn't interested in changing the way he is logging them... By the way, how in the world did you folks know who I was talking about? Is this not the first occurance? Anyway, thank you...

May 2, 2007

By the way, how in the world did you folks know who I was talking about? Is this not the first occurance? Anyway, thank you...

My guess is they looked at the recent finds in your profile.

I always find it disappointing to find TBs that appear in the inventory are not there. It's even worse when it's done intentionally! I'm glad this isn't very common. At least I haven't seen it in my area.

4k · May 2, 2007

When I find a cache with missing travel bugs or coins I make a public bookmark for that cache. This puts a "note" on the cache page right under the inventory section. I believe that the owner can't remove it and it is very visible. I would like to ask everyone that dislikes missing bugs and coins to bookmark those caches. I also ask the cache and bug owners to move the missing items to "unknown location". I wait two weeks for them to do it and if they don't I then ask Eartha to do it. So far this is working well.

This is a very interesting idea.

Do you bookmark every cache you visit that has a missing bug/coin? What if one is marked and the owner isnt at fault? Or maybe this isnt to single out the owner, maybe just to let others know that bugs/coins vanish after being placed here?

This is new to me, just trying to learn how this works for you. Thanks.

May 2, 2007

If these are coins and bugs that he owns, there's not much you can do about it. If he's keeping bugs and coins that belong to other cachers, it's up to each TB or coin owner to give permission or ask that he move them along.

I'd be more than irate if it was one of mine. I'd be finding out where he lived and showing up on his doorstep to get my TB/coin back. IF I were to give someone a TB to keep I'd have them go through the adoption process.

AK

May 4, 2007

We have a local clan that grabs 'em and never checks them out. It's just 'missing'. False caches were set up to throw off the local population about their whereabouts. We figured it out. they took them to Mexico, we figured it out. I'm recommending that anyone who hunts my caches not to leave trackables. I just hate having to list them as missing. ... And yes, I've tried to talk to the clan leader, does nothing but stir him into a fury. ... If we pick one up, we take a long way aways from here.

Slug away.

4k · May 4, 2007

We have a local clan that grabs 'em and never checks them out. It's just 'missing'. False caches were set up to throw off the local population about their whereabouts. We figured it out. they took them to Mexico, we figured it out. I'm recommending that anyone who hunts my caches not to leave trackables. I just hate having to list them as missing. ... And yes, I've tried to talk to the clan leader, does nothing but stir him into a fury. ... If we pick one up, we take a long way aways from here.

Slug away.

What do they do after they take them to Mexico? Do they keep them or just move them along? Strange.

May 4, 2007

They're kept. He's/they have been called on it more than once. The explainations are so weak. The other locals here just don't leave them in caches found within 50 miles. Sad really.

May 4, 2007

Sounds like time for a tar and feather party.It might work wonders.

22k · May 4, 2007

We have a local clan that grabs 'em and never checks them out. It's just 'missing'. False caches were set up to throw off the local population about their whereabouts. We figured it out. they took them to Mexico, we figured it out. I'm recommending that anyone who hunts my caches not to leave trackables. I just hate having to list them as missing. ... And yes, I've tried to talk to the clan leader, does nothing but stir him into a fury. ... If we pick one up, we take a long way aways from here.

Slug away.

What do they do after they take them to Mexico? Do they keep them or just move them along? Strange.

I've heard about this, but only in the dark corners of a dusty saloon. The ol' Mexico-Geocoin trade route. Most people think it's a myth.

It's not.

Hoarding Bugs and Coins in a cache

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