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Clan Riffster

The Geocacher's Creed

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In a recent thread, some folks are discussing The Geocaching Creed.

I thought the Creed deserved its own thread, and I'd like to hear what folks think about it, and whether it's something they adhere to. For those who are opposed to all or part of the Creed, I'd like to hear which part(s) you find distasteful, and why. I'd like to keep this thread as angst free as possible, and toward that goal, I'd like to point out that, just because you disagree with someone, that doesn't lessen their value as a person.

 

For those not familiar with the Creed, it is a list of suggested behaviors and attitudes compiled by cachers, for cachers. The Creed is not an officially sanctioned Groundspeak rulebook. I'll copy/paste it here, for your perusal:

 

When placing or seeking geocaches, I will:

 

Not Endanger Myself or Others

Like any outdoor activity, geocaching involves some inherent risk and many geocachers enjoy manageable risks. Minimize inordinate risks.

When creating a cache, describe any hidden dangers and, if possible, arrange the hunt to minimize these dangers.

When seeking a cache, know your limitations and be aware of your surroundings. Don't attempt anything beyond your abilities.

A cache you own, or one you're trading out of, could be found by children or even a prisoner work crew - consider the location of the cache and those likely to find it when deciding what to leave as a trade item.

 

Observe All Laws and Rules of the Area

Don’t break the law or rules of an area, or encourage others to do so, when placing or seeking a cache.

Don't leave illegal items in a cache.

 

Respect Property Rights and Seek Permission Where Appropriate

Check if permission is required before placing a cache on private property, and respect the landowner's wishes.

Check if public land has a geocaching policy and respect existing policies.

Promptly remove your cache if the land manager or steward asks.

Do not damage, or interfere with the function of, buildings, structures, or signage.

 

Avoid Causing Disruptions or Public Alarm

Don’t place a cache near schools or government buildings unless the administration and staff are fully aware of the placement.

Use caution where children play. Parents are understandably concerned when strangers are near their children.

Don’t place a cache near critical infrastructure that might be considered a terrorist target, or create a cache that could be mistaken for a terrorist device (e.g. a pipe bomb).

 

Minimize My and Others' Impact on the Environment

Follow Leave No Trace ethics whenever possible.

When seeking a cache, practice "Lift, Look, Replace" - put all stones or logs back where you found them. Leave the area as you found it or better (e.g. pick up litter).

Obtain the best possible coordinates for your cache to reduce unwarranted wear on the area. Recheck and correct your coordinates if finders report significant errors.

Do not abandon a cache.

If you stop maintaining a cache, remove the container, archive its listing and explain the disposition of the cache in your archive note, or put it up for adoption or rescue.

If you de-list a cache on one host, but keep it on another, make sure you mention this in the archive note to prevent rescues of active caches.

 

Be Considerate of Others

Treat other geocachers civilly - in the field, in the forums, or wherever your paths may cross.

Don't spoil the hunt for others - allow them to experience the cache as its owner intended.

Avoid leaving tracks to the cache. Do not disrupt the cache area or mark the hiding spot.

Minimize giving unsolicited clues that reveal the cache (i.e. "spoilers").

Don't provide any hints if the cache description asks you not to. In all other cases, be cryptic or encrypt any hints or spoilers you enter in online logs.

Edit your log if the cache owner requests that you remove spoilers.

Promptly alert the owner of any issues with their cache. Make minor repairs if you can, it will save the owner a trip.

Cache owners appreciate feedback - write an online log, send an email, or otherwise let the owner know about your experience with their cache.

Only place caches you can maintain and respond promptly to problem reports.

If you exchange trade items, trade kindly: Consider what future finders would like and leave something equal to or better than what you take.

If you place a traveling item into the game, attach a tag that describes its goal, so that others can help it along. If you pick up a traveling item with a tag describing its goal, move the item toward its goal if possible. Contact the owner if you hold a traveling item for more than a couple of weeks or so.

Obtain permission from the originator before copying unique themes and techniques, adding to an existing series of caches, or placing a cache close to another.

 

Protect the Integrity of the Game Pieces

The owner entrusts you to not damage or jeopardize the cache. Try to ensure the cache is ready for the next finder and is as good as or better than you found it.

Make sure the container is properly closed to prevent the contents from getting wet or destroyed.

Be inconspicuous in retrieving, signing in, and replacing a cache to avoid vandalism.

Put the cache back where you found it and hide it well. Don’t move a cache - if you suspect the cache is not in the intended spot, hide it the best you can and alert the owner as soon as possible.

Don’t collect traveling items meant to stay in the game. This is tantamount to stealing.

Don’t tamper with or involve a game piece in "alternate" games without the owner’s permission.

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I think it is a wonderful document and I try to adhere to it as closely as possible. I advocate new cachers to read it thoroughly.

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When placing or seeking geocaches, I will:

 

Not Endanger Myself or Others

DELETE ALL

 

Observe All Laws and Rules of the Area

Don’t break the law or rules of an area, or encourage others to do so, when placing or seeking a cache.

Don't leave illegal items in a cache. DUH

 

Respect Property Rights and Seek Permission Where Appropriate

Check if permission is required before placing a cache on private property, and respect the landowner's wishes.

Check if public land has a geocaching policy and respect existing policies.

Promptly remove your cache if the land manager or steward asks.

Do not damage, or interfere with the function of, buildings, structures, or signage.

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This is very well done. The only change I would make is to remove the words "tantamount to" in the next-to-last sentence.

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"Like any outdoor activity, geocaching involves some inherent risk and many geocachers enjoy manageable risks. Minimize inordinate risks."

 

This part always seems to have a lot of people shouting in very little time. What is an "inordinate risk" to one person may be a walk in the park for others. That doesn't mean there isn't a place for caches that include risk. It's up to the individual to decide whether it's a risk they should take. It's called being responsible for your own actions. (Which is why I'm still years away from doing some of the caches I'd like to. :D ) To me it means don't put one in the middle of a 4 lane expressway or something similar. To others it means don't put it anywhere near the edge of a ledge. Personal responsibility on the seeker must to be the depending factor always.

 

"A cache you own, or one you're trading out of, could be found by children or even a prisoner work crew - consider the location of the cache and those likely to find it when deciding what to leave as a trade item."

 

Again, responsibility is the key. I laugh when I hear people saying no to lighters and matches, but thinking it's perfectly acceptable to put a magnifying glass in a cache. Both are tools that can start a fire in seconds when used correctly.

 

Caching is all about being responsible. The rest of this text is just a flowery defining of the responsibility. I follow the rules. I do my part to make the world a better place. I did all this long before geocaching was around so the creed is just something that spells out what I was doing all along. I'm no saint, but I do my best. I just don't know that asking anyone to agree to the creed is more than a wasted effort though. The people willing to agree are likely to be already doing their part anyway.

 

So should people agree to the creed? Sure. Will asking people to agree to the creed make a difference? I doubt it. :D Is it worth trying anyway? Absolutely. :laughing:

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I adhere to the Creed, but not because I'd read it before...because it's relatively good practice and sensible advice.

 

My biggest problem with the Creed isn't the verbage, but the interpretation of this clause:

 

Avoid Causing Disruptions or Public Alarm

Don’t place a cache near schools or government buildings unless the administration and staff are fully aware of the placement.

Use caution where children play. Parents are understandably concerned when strangers are near their children.

Don’t place a cache near critical infrastructure that might be considered a terrorist target, or create a cache that could be mistaken for a terrorist device (e.g. a pipe bomb).

 

This is completely subjective and will vary from location to location yet some people love to quote this segment and generalize cache locations to label them as "bad" placements (ie. public parks).

 

But I think it's overall pretty sensible. I'd say "common sense", but that's such a misnomer in reality. :D

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I follow the creed and think the ideas it expresses are a good way to conduct yourself while caching. I don't however feel that they are a standard that I can hold to anyone. I think a better name might be 'Code of Conduct'. Also I don't think the verbage is that important as compared to the ideas it expresses.

 

 

BTW, this is the only Creed I have or will ever live by.... Lead The Way!

Edited by Totem Clan
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This is the only Creed I adhere too! However as a "Code of Conduct" they are a really good set of guidelines

:D

have fun minxyy

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Respect Property Rights and Seek Permission Where Appropriate

Check if permission is required before placing a cache on private property, and respect the landowner's wishes.

Check if public land has a geocaching policy and respect existing policies.

Promptly remove your cache if the land manager or steward asks.

Do not damage, or interfere with the function of, buildings, structures, or signage.

Just curious, Criminal, why you'd eliminate the line you did.

 

The rest you edited out I can see as repetitive and/or as you put it "DUH" :D

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I like it but I hope that we don't have to memorize it and recite it... :D

 

My personal creed is tougher on placing caches near schools and government buildings regardless of the alleged permission. I will never do it. These are highly sensitive sites that are bound to cause trouble and they do. Besides that there are always plenty of better places to hide a cache... :D

Edited by TrailGators
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I'm not a creed hound, and to me it's not "all about the creed", so I opted out.

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It was developed here on the forums in a long running sticky thread. I thought about it a bunch then, contributed to it some (playground hides, a peeve of mine, my original "parents can be paranoid" language was very nicely altered to the more politic and more accurate "understandably concerned").

 

Anyway, it moved onto its own site, and I haven't thought about it much since. So no thoughts.

 

I agree with the changes suggested by Criminal, except for the strike through on removing a cache when asked. If asked, I remove. Have done exactly that.

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Life is about having a creed and following it!

 

The Ten Commandments, the Constitution of the United States, the Geocachers Creed or one of the 12-step variants are all a way of life one adopts.

 

They are the basic tenets of civilization that most of us feel are a comfortable way to live our lives.

 

Rigid adherence to the literal word of any one of them is probably a bit too much, but having something, anything, to use for our internal compass is a good thing.

 

I don't care what you believe in, as long as you believe in SOMETHING that helps you.

 

That said, the Geocachers Creed is as good a metaphor for living a good life as any.

 

 

Robert Fulgham may have written the best creed of all:

 

All I really need to know about how to live and what to do and how to be I learned in kindergarten. Wisdom was not at the top of the graduate school mountain, but there in the sand pile at school.

These are the things I learned:

 

* Share everything.

* Play fair.

* Don't hit people.

* Put things back where you found them.

* Clean up your own mess.

* Don't take things that aren't yours.

* Say you're sorry when you hurt somebody.

* Wash your hands before you eat.

* Flush.

* Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you.

* Live a balanced life - learn some and think some and draw and paint and sing and dance and play and work every day some.

* Take a nap every afternoon.

* When you go out in the world, watch out for traffic, hold hands and stick together.

* Be aware of wonder. Remember the little seed in the Styrofoam cup: the roots go down and the plant goes up and nobody really knows how or why, but we are all like that.

* Goldfish and hamsters and white mice and even the little seed in the Styrofoam cup - they all die. So do we.

* And then remember the Dick-and-Jane books and the first word you learned - the biggest word of all - LOOK.

 

Everything you need to know is in there somewhere. The Golden Rule and love and basic sanitation. Ecology and politics and equality and sane living.

 

Take any one of those items and extrapolate it into sophisticated adult terms and apply it to your family life or your work or government or your world and it holds true and clear and firm. Think what a better world it would be if we all - the whole world - had cookies and milk at about 3 o'clock in the afternoon and then lay down with our blankies for a nap. Or if all governments had as a basic policy to always put things back where they found them and to clean up their own mess.

 

And it is still true, no matter how old you are, when you go out in the world, it is best to hold hands and stick together.

[source: "ALL I REALLY NEED TO KNOW I LEARNED IN KINDERGARTEN" by Robert Fulghum. See his web site at http://www.robertfulghum.com/ ]

Edited by TheAlabamaRambler
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Respect Property Rights and Seek Permission Where Appropriate

Check if permission is required before placing a cache on private property, and respect the landowner's wishes.

Check if public land has a geocaching policy and respect existing policies.

Promptly remove your cache if the land manager or steward asks.

Do not damage, or interfere with the function of, buildings, structures, or signage.

Just curious, Criminal, why you'd eliminate the line you did.

 

The rest you edited out I can see as repetitive and/or as you put it "DUH" :D

I lined through that because sometimes a ‘land manager’ or ‘steward’ thinks they have the authority to ask you to remove your cache when they do not. It doesn’t happen often, but it’s worded too absolutely for me.

Edited by Criminal
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Did someone mention warm cookies????

 

Here's my 'creed':

 

When placing or seeking geocaches, I will:

1) Use my brain.

2) Try to make the game fun for others.

3) Try not to be too full of myself.

 

Now, where are those cookies?

Edited by sbell111
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Did someone mention warm cookies????

 

Here's my 'creed':

 

When placing or seeking geocaches, I will:

1) Use my brain.

2) Try to make the game fun for others.

3) Try not to be too full of myself.

 

Now, where are those cookies?

 

My creed:

 

I'm right and everyone who disagrees with me is wrong.

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I'm all for it. Any activity that involves so many people in so many places, with varying levels of common sense and thoughtfulness, requires this kind of detail. Some of us might prefer for less to be so explicitly spelled out, but others require that.

 

A lot of it has to do with being a thoughtful, respectful member of any community.

 

-- Jeannette

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I lined through that because sometimes a ‘land manager’ or ‘steward’ thinks they have the authority to ask you to remove your cache when they do not. It doesn’t happen often, but it’s worded too absolutely for me.

Maybe I am a wuss, but I avoid confrontation and try to placate folks.

 

I have been asked to leave and take the cache with me several times.

 

I did so, and got the cache back to the owner. If he in fact has permission, great, he can put it back.

 

FWIW, None of the five or six I have carried off when asked to was ever replaced.

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The Creed is one of those Best Fit things. You can't make something that everone agrees on universilly. Leave No Trace for example admits some of it's creed are NOT what's best for the environment. Instead it's mostly what's best and some of what's acceptable.

 

Regardless it needs to exist, and it's a handy tool to have. Just like Leave No Trace or Tread Lightly.

 

Most of us who fight tooth and nail over terms like Explicit and Adequate follow the creed without even thinking about it.

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Did someone mention warm cookies????

 

Here's my 'creed':

 

When placing or seeking geocaches, I will:

1) Use my brain.

2) Try to make the game fun for others.

3) Try not to be too full of myself.

Now, where are those cookies?

I can live with that.

 

The biggest problem with geocaching is many cachers don't follow #1.

 

And yeah, where are the cookies? :D

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Did someone mention warm cookies????

 

Here's my 'creed':

 

When placing or seeking geocaches, I will:

1) Use my brain.

2) Try to make the game fun for others.

3) Try not to be too full of myself.

Now, where are those cookies?

I can live with that.

 

The biggest problem with geocaching is many cachers don't follow #1.

Well, golly. How many people can use my brain at once?
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Knowing the history of the Creed, its development, and some of the attitudes which surrounded it, I was pleased when it, much as expected, found a side nitch to disappear into. I guess we have to dust it off now and then. Not that the Creed is wrong. All newbies ought to understand it. But as far as a membership with compliance officers and dues.... I'm glad it stays in its own little nitch most of the time. I don't want to see an overseeing authority for caching activity. No headquarters and no discipline. (beyond the listing services of gc).

 

Now, a frisbee headquarters with binding code of conduct, and a paintball authority.... I can see those....

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.......Well, golly. How many people can use my brain at once?

 

:D

 

<<<now cleaning root beer off of my monitor>>>>

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Most of us who fight tooth and nail over terms like Explicit and Adequate follow the creed without even thinking about it.

Exactly!

 

That the way I look at it. I don't LIVE by the creed. I don't even think about it when I'm caching, but the things it says is how I cache. I would cache that way even if there wasn't a creed.

 

Also I could care less about the words or if they are too strong or whatever. It's the idea or spirit, if you will, behind them that matters. For example the land manager thing. The wording may not be right for some cachers but the idea is that, if ask to remove a cache by the proper authority, you should remove the cache. So what if the words aren't perfect. You know what they mean.

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Did someone mention warm cookies????

 

Here's my 'creed':

 

When placing or seeking geocaches, I will:

1) Use my brain.

2) Try to make the game fun for others.

3) Try not to be too full of myself.

Now, where are those cookies?

I can live with that.

 

The biggest problem with geocaching is many cachers don't follow #1.

Well, golly. How many people can use my brain at once?

:D:laughing::laughing::D
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Did someone mention warm cookies????

 

Here's my 'creed':

 

When placing or seeking geocaches, I will:

1) Use my brain.

2) Try to make the game fun for others.

3) Try not to be too full of myself.

Now, where are those cookies?

I can live with that.

 

The biggest problem with geocaching is many cachers don't follow #1.

Well, golly. How many people can use my brain at once?

I think you need one of those USB splitters..... :D
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Life is about having a creed and following it!

 

The Ten Commandments, the Constitution of the United States, the Geocachers Creed or one of the 12-step variants are all a way of life one adopts.

 

They are the basic tenets of civilization that most of us feel are a comfortable way to live our lives.

 

Rigid adherence to the literal word of any one of them is probably a bit too much, but having something, anything, to use for our internal compass is a good thing.

 

I don't care what you believe in, as long as you believe in SOMETHING that helps you.

 

That said, the Geocachers Creed is as good a metaphor for living a good life as any.

 

 

Robert Fulgham may have written the best creed of all:

 

All I really need to know about how to live and what to do and how to be I learned in kindergarten. Wisdom was not at the top of the graduate school mountain, but there in the sand pile at school.

These are the things I learned:

 

* Share everything.

* Play fair.

* Don't hit people.

* Put things back where you found them.

* Clean up your own mess.

* Don't take things that aren't yours.

* Say you're sorry when you hurt somebody.

* Wash your hands before you eat.

* Flush.

* Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you.

* Live a balanced life - learn some and think some and draw and paint and sing and dance and play and work every day some.

* Take a nap every afternoon.

* When you go out in the world, watch out for traffic, hold hands and stick together.

* Be aware of wonder. Remember the little seed in the Styrofoam cup: the roots go down and the plant goes up and nobody really knows how or why, but we are all like that.

* Goldfish and hamsters and white mice and even the little seed in the Styrofoam cup - they all die. So do we.

* And then remember the Dick-and-Jane books and the first word you learned - the biggest word of all - LOOK.

 

Everything you need to know is in there somewhere. The Golden Rule and love and basic sanitation. Ecology and politics and equality and sane living.

 

Take any one of those items and extrapolate it into sophisticated adult terms and apply it to your family life or your work or government or your world and it holds true and clear and firm. Think what a better world it would be if we all - the whole world - had cookies and milk at about 3 o'clock in the afternoon and then lay down with our blankies for a nap. Or if all governments had as a basic policy to always put things back where they found them and to clean up their own mess.

 

And it is still true, no matter how old you are, when you go out in the world, it is best to hold hands and stick together.

[source: "ALL I REALLY NEED TO KNOW I LEARNED IN KINDERGARTEN" by Robert Fulghum. See his web site at http://www.robertfulghum.com/ ]

 

Very good post.

 

You're absolutely correct about everyone following a creed, even if it's a personal, unnamed creed.

 

The 1% of folks that don't follow any creed- they scare me.

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Life is about having a creed and following it!

 

The Ten Commandments, the Constitution of the United States, the Geocachers Creed or one of the 12-step variants are all a way of life one adopts.

 

They are the basic tenets of civilization that most of us feel are a comfortable way to live our lives.

 

Rigid adherence to the literal word of any one of them is probably a bit too much, but having something, anything, to use for our internal compass is a good thing.

 

I don't care what you believe in, as long as you believe in SOMETHING that helps you.

 

That said, the Geocachers Creed is as good a metaphor for living a good life as any.

 

 

Robert Fulgham may have written the best creed of all:

 

All I really need to know about how to live and what to do and how to be I learned in kindergarten. Wisdom was not at the top of the graduate school mountain, but there in the sand pile at school.

These are the things I learned:

 

* Share everything.

* Play fair.

* Don't hit people.

* Put things back where you found them.

* Clean up your own mess.

* Don't take things that aren't yours.

* Say you're sorry when you hurt somebody.

* Wash your hands before you eat.

* Flush.

* Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you.

* Live a balanced life - learn some and think some and draw and paint and sing and dance and play and work every day some.

* Take a nap every afternoon.

* When you go out in the world, watch out for traffic, hold hands and stick together.

* Be aware of wonder. Remember the little seed in the Styrofoam cup: the roots go down and the plant goes up and nobody really knows how or why, but we are all like that.

* Goldfish and hamsters and white mice and even the little seed in the Styrofoam cup - they all die. So do we.

* And then remember the Dick-and-Jane books and the first word you learned - the biggest word of all - LOOK.

 

Everything you need to know is in there somewhere. The Golden Rule and love and basic sanitation. Ecology and politics and equality and sane living.

 

Take any one of those items and extrapolate it into sophisticated adult terms and apply it to your family life or your work or government or your world and it holds true and clear and firm. Think what a better world it would be if we all - the whole world - had cookies and milk at about 3 o'clock in the afternoon and then lay down with our blankies for a nap. Or if all governments had as a basic policy to always put things back where they found them and to clean up their own mess.

 

And it is still true, no matter how old you are, when you go out in the world, it is best to hold hands and stick together.

[source: "ALL I REALLY NEED TO KNOW I LEARNED IN KINDERGARTEN" by Robert Fulghum. See his web site at http://www.robertfulghum.com/ ]

 

Very good post.

 

You're absolutely correct about everyone following a creed, even if it's a personal, unnamed creed.

 

The 1% of folks that don't follow any creed- they scare me.

Yes, that is a good post. :anicute:
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In my opinion "The Geocacher's Creed" is a fantastically inane piece of work. Disregarding anyone who is developmentally disabled or has perhaps suffered a head injury, any adult who needs to pledge "When placing or seeking geocaches, I will not Endanger Myself or Others." before hiding or looking for a box of crap in the woods needs to assess their level of maturity or their need to follow rules that don't exist.

 

The only thing I have seen that exceeds the "Rolling Eyes Emoticon Factor" of the Creed was a Diversity Day Pledge that I saw while attending college. On Diversity Day, you could get a button that said "I Celebrate Diversity!" if you signed the pledge that stated in part: "I promise not to tolerate intolerance."

 

May God bless the "Creeders", I am thankful I am not in their ranks.

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May God bless the "Creeders", I am thankful I am not in their ranks.

 

Well put from someone who has a picture of a person on fire in their avatar.

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May God bless the "Creeders", I am thankful I am not in their ranks.

 

Well put from someone who has a picture of a person on fire in their avatar.

Reminds me of this...

Wish%20you%20were%20here.jpg

Can you name that album..... :anicute:

Edited by TrailGators
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May God bless the "Creeders", I am thankful I am not in their ranks.

 

Well put from someone who has a picture of a person on fire in their avatar.

Reminds me of this...

Wish%20you%20were%20here.jpg

Can you name that album..... :anicute:

 

How about Pink Floyd's Wish You Were Here?

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May God bless the "Creeders", I am thankful I am not in their ranks.

 

Well put from someone who has a picture of a person on fire in their avatar.

Reminds me of this...

Wish%20you%20were%20here.jpg

Can you name that album..... :anicute:

 

How about Pink Floyd's Wish You Were Here?

We have a winner!

 

We're just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl, year after year,

Running over the same old ground.

What have we found?

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Whilst I'm not a Moderator, (and due to my frequently acerbic tongue, probably never will be), I'm glad to see this thread hasn't devolved as so many others have. Thanx guys & gals! I guess I should add my thoughts since I'm the OP:

 

I haven't delved into Webster's, so I could be way off, but for me, a Creed is a promise one makes to themselves, to govern one's own conduct. My personal definition further requires that I never try to hold anybody else accountable for my individual Creeds.

 

The first Creed I ascribed to was The Golden Rule, followed by The 10 Commandments, then The Boy Scout Oath. I've since taken a more Heinlein'ish approach to my own ethical standards, adopting the policy that "The only sin is harming another unnecessarily. Everything else is invented nonsense". In practice, it kinda brings me back to The Golden Rule. :anicute:

 

I like The Geocaching Creed overall, promote it religiously to muggles, and follow it, (mostly), in my day to day caching.

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I lined through that because sometimes a ‘land manager’ or ‘steward’ thinks they have the authority to ask you to remove your cache when they do not. It doesn’t happen often, but it’s worded too absolutely for me.

Maybe I am a wuss, but I avoid confrontation and try to placate folks.

 

I have been asked to leave and take the cache with me several times.

 

I did so, and got the cache back to the owner. If he in fact has permission, great, he can put it back.

 

FWIW, None of the five or six I have carried off when asked to was ever replaced.

 

Perhaps a rewording rather than a strike-through would be called for? "If asked by a person with the authority to do so, I will remove a cache" maybe? Seems like it'd be a rare enough occurrence that to eliminate the line's throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

 

May God bless the "Creeders", I am thankful I am not in their ranks.

 

Well put from someone who has a picture of a person on fire in their avatar.

I'd heard hot pants were going out of style...

If they were ever in...

:anicute:

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Respect Property Rights and Seek Permission Where Appropriate

Check if permission is required before placing a cache on private property, and respect the landowner's wishes.

Check if public land has a geocaching policy and respect existing policies.

Promptly remove your cache if the land manager or steward asks.

Do not damage, or interfere with the function of, buildings, structures, or signage.

Just curious, Criminal, why you'd eliminate the line you did.

 

The rest you edited out I can see as repetitive and/or as you put it "DUH" :anicute:

I lined through that because sometimes a ‘land manager’ or ‘steward’ thinks they have the authority to ask you to remove your cache when they do not. It doesn’t happen often, but it’s worded too absolutely for me.

 

I agree with this. I'm reminded of a mangager of an SGL in Pennsylvania (State Game Lands) who demanded caches be removed from his SGL (or removed them himself). It set off a thread in the Northeast forum stating that caching was banned on all SGL's in the State (and there are 100 of them at least), but that never happened. There are currently caches on his SGL (I just checked), although one he apparently seems to have targeted is long gone and archived.

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I'll copy/paste it here, for your perusal:

The parts you quoted in bold is the actual creed while the parts in italics are explanations by example.

 

Take the first portion, "Not Endanger Myself or Others" and the following lines are "for instances" which are neither absolutes or exhaustive. The line "Not Endanger Myself or Others" is similar to the concept of recreational use laws in most, if not all, states where the landowner is not responsible for most dangers a visitor may face while on his land. Yet, the landowner can not intentionally create a danger to those same visitors.

 

From the other point of view the seeker needs to be aware of his surroundings and be within his abilities at all times. This does not mean one can not push their own limits and challenge one's self, but going beyond your abilities is pretty dumb. I'm not a SCUBA diver and it would be pretty dumb for me to grab a tank and attempt a 200' dive with no training or supervision--I could very well find myself in a deadly situation.

 

Also, a seeker can not assume a hunt is safe simply because it has been listed or even if others have found it. Errors happen. Transpose a couple of digits and instead of a nice walk in the park, you could find yourself in deep trouble. Such errors could happen in a number of ways from hand entering coords to not interpreting a puzzle correctly.

 

When the creed was created is was, and really continues to be, a distillation of what has been discussed on the forums already. There really is no new concepts within it. It was ordered the way it was from the most important, personal safety, to really the least important, the protection of the game piece. The reasoning is the higher priorities take precedence over the lower ones--if there is a conflict you know which one should "win out."

 

An example of a conflict is after you retrieve a cache a piece of required safety gear is broken. You can not replace the cache without presenting a clear and serious danger to yourself or member of your team--little chance of success and high chance of bodily injury or death. The creed shows that personal safety is more important than returning the cache.

 

Another could be you're returning from wading to a cache and the landowner confronts you. He orders you to retrieve the cache and show him. You turn around and see the tide is coming in and you can't swim. There's no other way to get to the cache but swim. The answer is you don't risk drowning to retrieve the cache.

 

I know not everyone will agree on these concepts, but if you find yourself in a situation where you don't know the answer, if you use the creed to find the answer few will fault outcome.

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I lined through that because sometimes a ‘land manager’ or ‘steward’ thinks they have the authority to ask you to remove your cache when they do not. It doesn’t happen often, but it’s worded too absolutely for me.

The part that was struck is a "for instance." It also kind of goes hand in hand with the permission issue. I suppose you have to determine that in situations where one made a mistake on where you need explicit permission, would this person be the one from which you would seek that permission? Depending on the spot, I might go ahead and find the appropriate person, and seek permission. Then you'd definitively know where you stand.

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May God bless the "Creeders", I am thankful I am not in their ranks.

 

Well put from someone who has a picture of a person on fire in their avatar.

:D:):anicute:

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In my opinion "The Geocacher's Creed" is a fantastically inane piece of work. Disregarding anyone who is developmentally disabled or has perhaps suffered a head injury, any adult who needs to pledge "When placing or seeking geocaches, I will not Endanger Myself or Others." before hiding or looking for a box of crap in the woods needs to assess their level of maturity or their need to follow rules that don't exist.

...I am thankful I am not in their ranks.

So am I.

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It's obvious that a lot of people Just Don't Get It.

 

The Creed is for the non-geocacher, not for those already involved in the activity. When journalists and land managers hit the web in order to find out something about geocaching, the Creed helps put it in a good light. What it is, is PR.

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It's obvious that a lot of people Just Don't Get It.

 

The Creed is for the non-geocacher, not for those already involved in the activity. When journalists and land managers hit the web in order to find out something about geocaching, the Creed helps put it in a good light. What it is, is PR.

In that case, it should never be used in the forums to support an argument, but it is.
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It's obvious that a lot of people Just Don't Get It.

 

The Creed is for the non-geocacher, not for those already involved in the activity. When journalists and land managers hit the web in order to find out something about geocaching, the Creed helps put it in a good light. What it is, is PR.

Is it? :anicute::)

 

What makes you say that? I must be missing something? Could you show where you got that from? :D

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Sounds pretty good to me! Sounds like what I already try to follow every day (when caching anyway)!

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In my opinion "The Geocacher's Creed" is a fantastically inane piece of work. Disregarding anyone who is developmentally disabled or has perhaps suffered a head injury,
How does it disregard these people? Can you please elaborate? I guess I honestly wouldn't have thought that these tidbits of common sense (many of which are guidelines) would infringe on anybody....
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In my opinion "The Geocacher's Creed" is a fantastically inane piece of work. Disregarding anyone who is developmentally disabled or has perhaps suffered a head injury,
How does it disregard these people? Can you please elaborate? I guess I honestly wouldn't have thought that these tidbits of common sense (many of which are guidelines) would infringe on anybody....

I took his post differently than you did, for what it's worth.

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*Now if I can just get it memorized.*

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In my opinion "The Geocacher's Creed" is a fantastically inane piece of work. Disregarding anyone who is developmentally disabled or has perhaps suffered a head injury,
How does it disregard these people? Can you please elaborate? I guess I honestly wouldn't have thought that these tidbits of common sense (many of which are guidelines) would infringe on anybody....

I took his post differently than you did, for what it's worth.

How did you interpret "Disregarding anyone who is developmentally disabled?"
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*Now if I can just get it memorized.*
The nice thing about common sense is that those have it don't need to memorize anything. :anicute:
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How did you interpret "Disregarding anyone who is developmentally disabled?"

Uh... An elaborate way to say "stupid"? Just a guess.

Edited by DrunkCat
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