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what about vacation caches?


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BTW. Two more vacation caches published on Maui this morning, to be maintained by "non-geocaching friends". Bison tubes dropped in a park... Wonderful! You would think that they might have had better things to do on their honeymoon.
I don't see the problem.

 

The caches are in a park. Therefore, they pass the 'why here?' test.

 

A maintenance plan is in place.

 

If the maintenance plan fails, pretty much the worse scenario is that the bison tubes will go missing and the caches will be archived. I don't see a potential geotrash problem.

 

OK,sorry. I wasn't clear because I had drifted off topic. Yes, these caches meet all the requirements and follow all of the rules. Big deal. I consider them geotrash right from the getgo. Many of the cachers I know will spend weeks or months planning their caches; scouting locations, developing a puzzle, fabricating a container or researching the cache page. The hope is to provide the finder with a unique, special (dare I use those words) or enjoyable experience or maybe take them to a cool place where they might never have gone. I would consider success to be when you hear a cacher, months after they found it, say; yes I remember that one, that was a great cache. These caches you will have forgotten five minutes after you have signed the log.

In that case, I agree. You did drift from the topic because your belief that all caches should be awesome really isn't about vacation caches. It's about your personal caching desires.

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Would you mind actually answering my questions?
If land issues were this easy to explain, I'd probably be in favor of vacation caches. You just need to take our word for it. If it wasn't that way, do you think this thread would exist.
Actually, it is that simple. If someone allows me to place an item on their property, then it is fine for that item to be there. It makes no difference whether the item is listed on a website such as GC.com and no third party is empowered to remove my personal property simply because the item is not listed to any specific website.

 

It gets no simpler than this and you have not shown how Hawaii is unique in relation to personal property law. Given that you haven't offered anything to sjhow why Hawaii is special in this reagrd, I cannot simply 'take your word for it'.

 

Sorry.

 

It seems like you are trying to steer the conversation towards permission issues on public vs private land. That is another topic all together and we are talking about vacation caches in Hawaii.

 

I am pretty much in agreement with every post in this thread except for yours, there's been a good cross section of Hawaii cachers that have come in a shared their like experiences, a lot of very good facts and opinions have been presented. That is enough for me to say that we've reached a consensus without you.

 

Sorry.

Well, we wouldn't want you to have to defend your posts, now would we?

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I tried but just couldn't stay away. :D

Welcome back.

 

Would you mind popping back to post 205 and responding to my post? I would appreciate it.

 

No thank you! I'm not interested in wasting any more time with you.

Go play with your motivations by yourself.

 

The advocates for vacation caches are purposely not listening to the varied responses from many places and cachers stating there's a problem. They're using "if", while we're sharing real world experiences.

 

Guess those advocates still think the world is flat too.

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Well, we wouldn't want you to have to defend your posts, now would we?

 

For the sake of pure exercise, no.

If you are going to make a blanket statement, you should be prepared to defend it. If you choose not to, I hope everyone has the good sense to take that into account when reading your posts.

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I tried but just couldn't stay away. :D

Welcome back.

 

Would you mind popping back to post 205 and responding to my post? I would appreciate it.

 

No thank you! I'm not interested in wasting any more time with you.

Go play with your motivations by yourself.

 

The advocates for vacation caches are purposely not listening to the varied responses from many places and cachers stating there's a problem. They're using "if", while we're sharing real world experiences.

 

Guess those advocates still think the world is flat too.

Well, you've argued that there should be special rules for Hawaii caches, but you haven't shown why this should be. When asked questions so the rest of us can understand your postion, you and GeoBlast have dodged them.

 

Why should anyone care about your issue if this is the way that you act?

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BTW. Two more vacation caches published on Maui this morning, to be maintained by "non-geocaching friends". Bison tubes dropped in a park... Wonderful! You would think that they might have had better things to do on their honeymoon.
I don't see the problem.

 

The caches are in a park. Therefore, they pass the 'why here?' test.

 

A maintenance plan is in place.

 

If the maintenance plan fails, pretty much the worse scenario is that the bison tubes will go missing and the caches will be archived. I don't see a potential geotrash problem.

 

OK,sorry. I wasn't clear because I had drifted off topic. Yes, these caches meet all the requirements and follow all of the rules. Big deal. I consider them geotrash right from the getgo. Many of the cachers I know will spend weeks or months planning their caches; scouting locations, developing a puzzle, fabricating a container or researching the cache page. The hope is to provide the finder with a unique, special (dare I use those words) or enjoyable experience or maybe take them to a cool place where they might never have gone. I would consider success to be when you hear a cacher, months after they found it, say; yes I remember that one, that was a great cache. These caches you will have forgotten five minutes after you have signed the log.

In that case, I agree. You did drift from the topic because your belief that all caches should be awesome really isn't about vacation caches. It's about your personal caching desires.

 

Not totally. The subjects of vacation caches and cache quality are somewhat related. Because they are frequently placed with limited knowledge of the location and not much time for thought or planning, vacation caches are often not very memorable except to those who placed them.

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okay i have been away for a few days and just got caught up on the discussion.

simply put I do believe that all 100 caches on the iisland and county of hawaii should be awesome. as a cacher that has found 95% of them i do know the history and story behind each one. i own 10% of the hides here and i am probably the most active cacher here. my finds count is quite low because of where i live, but i am not a rookie. of the caccers that i know here in hawaii, i can say that our goal IS totally awesome caches. we have a unique chance and ability to have some input into what happens here. we are a tight knit community. there are maybe 100 cachers living here in the whole state.

where i lived before, there is over 10,000 caches in the same geographic size area as my county. if a vacationer places a hide there it will get lost in the clutter, good or bad.

here 1 cache is 1% of the hides over the course of a year it would be easy for vacation caches to equal 25%, good or bad. experience has shown that most are mariginal quality hides with liitle thought or imagination put into the effort. so maybe we are elitist, if so, i dont care. we welcome vacationers with open arms and wallets, they will find a very high percentage of quality caches here to occupy there caching day.

frankly we dont need more crappy caches placed here.

i venture to say that if every vacation cache that has been placed here since i became a cacher was still here,you would have at least 50% of the caches here vacation caches. i challenge any one to do a pocket query from your home coordinates for a weekend of caching and make 1/2 of them vacation hides and tell me how much fun you had.

what hasnt been said is that the hawaiian cachers i know do a lot of unofficial maintaining of unadopted,abandoned vacation hides. many of the very first hides here are legacy caches that have no active owners. the good ones have been silenly maintained for your caching enjoyment.

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BTW. Two more vacation caches published on Maui this morning, to be maintained by "non-geocaching friends". Bison tubes dropped in a park... Wonderful! You would think that they might have had better things to do on their honeymoon.
I don't see the problem.

 

The caches are in a park. Therefore, they pass the 'why here?' test.

 

A maintenance plan is in place.

 

If the maintenance plan fails, pretty much the worse scenario is that the bison tubes will go missing and the caches will be archived. I don't see a potential geotrash problem.

 

OK,sorry. I wasn't clear because I had drifted off topic. Yes, these caches meet all the requirements and follow all of the rules. Big deal. I consider them geotrash right from the getgo. Many of the cachers I know will spend weeks or months planning their caches; scouting locations, developing a puzzle, fabricating a container or researching the cache page. The hope is to provide the finder with a unique, special (dare I use those words) or enjoyable experience or maybe take them to a cool place where they might never have gone. I would consider success to be when you hear a cacher, months after they found it, say; yes I remember that one, that was a great cache. These caches you will have forgotten five minutes after you have signed the log.

 

Hey Etoa Nrish, What you typed is a no-brainer to you, me, and many other people. Maybe people who signed up for geocaching.com on the same date in 2003 think alike. :blink: But to some others around here? You really didn't want to go there, did you? :D

 

Ah yes, rare vintage that year. :o

 

No, I really don't want to get into a discussion about cache quality. I suppose that there is a segment of the geocaching community that gets their jollys from lifting up lamp post skirts in Walmart parking lots and I should be more tolerant of that.

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...there is a segment of the geocaching community that gets their jollys from lifting up lamp post skirts in Walmart parking lots and I should be more tolerant of that.

True. Even so, you don't have to be the one to place them, and you don't have to be the one to maintain them.

 

Absolutely! I don't and I don"t.

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Well, we wouldn't want you to have to defend your posts, now would we?

 

For the sake of pure exercise, no.

If you are going to make a blanket statement, you should be prepared to defend it. If you choose not to, I hope everyone has the good sense to take that into account when reading your posts.

 

I'll agree with this, check my posting record and the content. You are the only poster I regularly ignore here. I actually wish I could have the 15 minutes back that I just gave you.

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BTW. Two more vacation caches published on Maui this morning, to be maintained by "non-geocaching friends". Bison tubes dropped in a park... Wonderful! You would think that they might have had better things to do on their honeymoon.
I don't see the problem.

 

The caches are in a park. Therefore, they pass the 'why here?' test.

 

A maintenance plan is in place.

 

If the maintenance plan fails, pretty much the worse scenario is that the bison tubes will go missing and the caches will be archived. I don't see a potential geotrash problem.

 

OK,sorry. I wasn't clear because I had drifted off topic. Yes, these caches meet all the requirements and follow all of the rules. Big deal. I consider them geotrash right from the getgo. Many of the cachers I know will spend weeks or months planning their caches; scouting locations, developing a puzzle, fabricating a container or researching the cache page. The hope is to provide the finder with a unique, special (dare I use those words) or enjoyable experience or maybe take them to a cool place where they might never have gone. I would consider success to be when you hear a cacher, months after they found it, say; yes I remember that one, that was a great cache. These caches you will have forgotten five minutes after you have signed the log.

 

Hey Etoa Nrish, What you typed is a no-brainer to you, me, and many other people. Maybe people who signed up for geocaching.com on the same date in 2003 think alike. ;) But to some others around here? You really didn't want to go there, did you? :grin:

 

Ah yes, rare vintage that year. :D

 

No, I really don't want to get into a discussion about cache quality. I suppose that there is a segment of the geocaching community that gets their jollys from lifting up lamp post skirts in Walmart parking lots and I should be more tolerant of that.

 

It looks like I created my account 102 people before yours. So I have several hours on you. What a newbie. :D

 

Just think of every cache, regardless of quality, as a gift. Here, maybe this will help:

 

328897.jpg

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what hasn't been said is that the hawaiian cachers i know do a lot of unofficial maintaining of unadopted,abandoned vacation hides. many of the very first hides here are legacy caches that have no active owners. the good ones have been silenlty maintained for your caching enjoyment.

 

Mahalo for bringing that up! We've been out of town as well and reading through the recent posts that was what I wanted to say most, so technically I don't need to post at all. :grin: I will add that any visiting cacher wishing to leave a container behind, might be better off helping with maintenance of these well placed "legacy" caches rather than trying to get a new cache published.

 

While I share (for the most part) the Geohana distaste for vacation caches, I did want to post the exception which proves the rule. :D We just returned from French Polynesia, an area with (as far as I can tell) NO active cachers. The cache there that has been found most often (and the only one that receives any maintenance) is a vacation cache placed on private property and maintained by non-geocachers (who do own the property).

 

So I guess that just brings us back to why we have "guidelines" not laws!

 

jrr

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BTW. Two more vacation caches published on Maui this morning, to be maintained by "non-geocaching friends". Bison tubes dropped in a park... Wonderful! You would think that they might have had better things to do on their honeymoon.
I don't see the problem.

 

The caches are in a park. Therefore, they pass the 'why here?' test.

 

A maintenance plan is in place.

 

If the maintenance plan fails, pretty much the worse scenario is that the bison tubes will go missing and the caches will be archived. I don't see a potential geotrash problem.

 

OK,sorry. I wasn't clear because I had drifted off topic. Yes, these caches meet all the requirements and follow all of the rules. Big deal. I consider them geotrash right from the getgo. Many of the cachers I know will spend weeks or months planning their caches; scouting locations, developing a puzzle, fabricating a container or researching the cache page. The hope is to provide the finder with a unique, special (dare I use those words) or enjoyable experience or maybe take them to a cool place where they might never have gone. I would consider success to be when you hear a cacher, months after they found it, say; yes I remember that one, that was a great cache. These caches you will have forgotten five minutes after you have signed the log.

 

Hey Etoa Nrish, What you typed is a no-brainer to you, me, and many other people. Maybe people who signed up for geocaching.com on the same date in 2003 think alike. :D But to some others around here? You really didn't want to go there, did you? ;)

 

Ah yes, rare vintage that year. B)

 

No, I really don't want to get into a discussion about cache quality. I suppose that there is a segment of the geocaching community that gets their jollys from lifting up lamp post skirts in Walmart parking lots and I should be more tolerant of that.

 

It looks like I created my account 102 people before yours. So I have several hours on you. What a newbie. :D

 

Just think of every cache, regardless of quality, as a gift. Here, maybe this will help:

 

 

What can I say. You have an unfair advantage. At W78 the world gets to you sooner than it does me at W157 so you had a headstart. But then I get to stay up later than you do. :grin:

Edited by Etoa Nrish
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Well as the #1 cache hider on O`ahu it's time for my two cents.

 

As has been said before we don't need more WalMart parking lot like micro caches here in the islands.

 

Although on trips to the mainland I will look for some just to get the most out of my travel dollars, most are not fun to find. Most have no reason to bring you to that location other than to find the micro.

 

Although a few of my 80 hides are archived ALL of them bring you to a place you would have enjoyed traveling to even if there was no cache to log.

 

I try to take you on an adventure to the top of the mountain, deep in the jungle to a water fall, or into the deepest darkest water tunnels I can find.

 

I take it back. There is one on my property that is a travel bug cache and not in a special space except that you may meet ME :D

 

Wai`anae CRider

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I think y'all Hawaii folks are heading in the right direction, by having a reviewer that is receptive to the wishes of the community.

 

Looking at the vacation cache guideline, and its application in the field, it seems that the standard reviewing process as related to these types of caches is geared more toward getting caches published, as there is no method of checks/balances involved. All I gotta do is type somewhere on the cache page words to the effect of, "My Aunt Edna will maintain this cache", and it'll likely get published anywhere I wanna put it, (assuming it meets the other guidelines), regardless of the fact that I don't have an Aunt Edna.

 

Personally, I'd like to see the application leaning toward the other end of the spectrum, with a requirement to have an active geocacher listed as the maintainer, in order to get a vacation cache approved.

 

It's been my experience that personal observation trumps hypothetical maybes everytime. My personal observations are that the vacation caches I've found have not been maintained properly. Inevitably these boxes of moldy trinkets get archived, and then the community becomes dependant upon the same Aunt Edna who showed herself unwilling to maintain a cache, to remove it. Since that's not likely to happen, our community gets more geolitter, which is bad for the game.

 

Sure, hypothetically, some vacation cache hider might really have their own Aunt Edna, who loves nothing more than checking on her favorite nephew's ammo box, but my experience tells me this would be the exception, not the rule. I would assume this would also apply to all the Sister Sallys and Uncle Elmers.

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as there is no method of checks/balances involved. All I gotta do is type somewhere on the cache page words to the effect of, "My Aunt Edna will maintain this cache", and it'll likely get published anywhere I wanna put it,

 

Yes, but if Aunt Edna turns out to be mythical, you'll only have that option once....

 

Personally, I'd like to see the application leaning toward the other end of the spectrum, with a requirement to have an active geocacher listed as the maintainer, in order to get a vacation cache approved.

 

You'd be requiring people in cental Africa to create Geocaching.com accounts. Some of those local maintainers aren't internet connected, yet there they are, checking caches...... remember, the game is global. Indeed, even in central France, somebody's Aunt Edna is caring for a cache without having an ISP.

 

that the vacation caches I've found have not been maintained properly

 

My own experience is counter yours - some caches will not be maintained, whether the cache owner is local or not. Some vacation cache maintenance plans work (mom, grandad, friend Joe actually perform maintenance) and some don't. Cachers losing interest and fading away from the game is more of a cache maintenance issue than vacation caches.

As far as creating geolitter - not publishing vacation caches guarantees litter. Published geolitter might get picked up as it deteriorates; unpublished geolitter will not be.

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as there is no method of checks/balances involved. All I gotta do is type somewhere on the cache page words to the effect of, "My Aunt Edna will maintain this cache", and it'll likely get published anywhere I wanna put it,

 

Yes, but if Aunt Edna turns out to be mythical, you'll only have that option once....

 

1)Personally, I'd like to see the application leaning toward the other end of the spectrum, with a requirement to have an active geocacher listed as the maintainer, in order to get a vacation cache approved.

 

You'd be requiring people in cental Africa to create Geocaching.com accounts. Some of those local maintainers aren't internet connected, yet there they are, checking caches...... remember, the game is global. Indeed, even in central France, somebody's Aunt Edna is caring for a cache without having an ISP.

 

that the vacation caches I've found have not been maintained properly

 

2)My own experience is counter yours - some caches will not be maintained, whether the cache owner is local or not. Some vacation cache maintenance plans work (mom, grandad, friend Joe actually perform maintenance) and some don't. 2A)Cachers losing interest and fading away from the game is more of a cache maintenance issue than vacation caches.

[/b]3)As far as creating geolitter - not publishing vacation caches guarantees litter. Published geolitter might get picked up as it deteriorates; unpublished geolitter will not be.

 

1) This is where different areas should be treated differently. Already lots of caches versus cache light. And there should always be a real contact info of some type for any non-cacher maintainer.

 

2) Owners have shown here to ALWAYS maintain their hides better than a non-cacher maintainer.

 

2A) We have a local forum (everywhere that can, should) where caches are put up for adoption. If they're not the owner removes it or the community does at the owners request.

 

3) A few of us are notified of unpublishable caches and we remove them. It would be irresponsible of Geocaching as a whole to not do so.

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You'd be requiring people in cental Africa to create Geocaching.com accounts. Some of those local maintainers aren't internet connected, yet there they are, checking caches...... remember, the game is global. Indeed, even in central France, somebody's Aunt Edna is caring for a cache without having an ISP.

 

And they are going to know that cache maintenance is required...um... how? :D

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...[/b]1) This is where different areas should be treated differently. Already lots of caches versus cache light. And there should always be a real contact info of some type for any non-cacher maintainer....

 

3) A few of us are notified of unpublishable caches and we remove them. It would be irresponsible of Geocaching as a whole to not do so.

 

A couple of points. Different areas should be treated differenty only if the difference warrants it. Thus far I've seen nothing but preference instead of a solid case being built.

 

When it comes to unpublished caches, removing the abandoned ones is the responsible thing to do. Determining that they are in fact abandoned is key.

 

As for my non cacher maintainer. It's none of your business. That agreement is between me and them. If the cache isn't published it falls to me as owner to contact them to pull the cache or help me maintain it on another site willing to list it. I've been denied a listing because I would not divulge my help. After all if they wanted to be known they would have a caching account. I listed that cache elsewhere. As for a caching mantainer, I'd just have them list the cache themselves and give me credit somewhere.

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You'd be requiring people in cental Africa to create Geocaching.com accounts. Some of those local maintainers aren't internet connected, yet there they are, checking caches...... remember, the game is global. Indeed, even in central France, somebody's Aunt Edna is caring for a cache without having an ISP.

 

And they are going to know that cache maintenance is required...um... how? :D

 

The owner lets them know.

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another vacation cache bites the dust:

 

Good Morning! It seems as if Run, Forest Run has gone missing. I was wondering if you could possible have a look and see if maybe it was just mis placed or if it is really missing. See the message from another cacher below. As always, and in advance we thank you again for watching ofer the cache.

name deleted

THIS IS THE LAST LOG:

Aloha-

I wanted to see if something has changed with the Run Forest Run cache. Tmytkr and I found it in June and went there with his brother last night. He looked and looked and could not find it, so we gave him a hint. He went to the spot, but it was not there. We looked all around up there and it was definitely not there. Possibly muggled? Has anything changed on the coord? Hope to hear back from you.

Mahalo

 

sometime ago i reluctantly agreed to replace this one, knowing it wouldnt last long. less than 6 months i think. i will be logging SBA.

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A few of us are notified of unpublishable caches and we remove them. It would be irresponsible of Geocaching as a whole to not do so.

It is good of the cache owner to write to a few of you. It would be nice if vacation cache owners everywhere would do that (assuming they don't want to publish it on another listing site without maintenance guidelines).

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Keystone, I am very clear that you oppose anyone removing any cache without express consent of the cache owner. Here's where I'm unclear.

 

Under what circumstances do you believe its ok, if not even beneficial to remove a cache that isn't yours? I'd like clarification on a few circumstances:

Cache owner hasn't logged into the site for months or years. Cache is wet and moldy and after SBA, has been archived, or cache has been muggled and is scattered all over the place.

Cache owner has logged in recently but does not respond to needs maint, sba, or direct emails.

 

Surely there comes a time when the local caching community can be responsible and clean up the geolitter without it being considered theft?

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...Surely there comes a time when the local caching community can be responsible and clean up the geolitter without it being considered theft?

 

When it's abandoned. Simple as that.

If it's not listed on any site.

If the owner doesn't respond to attempts to contact.

If a reasonable amount of time (these are not radioactive or biohazards and they are hidden you can give them 6 month or even a year to do something) passes with the owner not picking it up.

 

Pull the cache and you are done. You have both dealt with the cache and given the owner every chance to do the right thing.

 

I'm a big fan of the CRM (Cache Rescue Mission) concept where every cache is accounted for when it's end comes. I'm also a big fan of giving ownwers every chance to do the right thing and allowing them ample time to do so.

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...Surely there comes a time when the local caching community can be responsible and clean up the geolitter without it being considered theft?

 

When it's abandoned. Simple as that.

If it's not listed on any site.

If the owner doesn't respond to attempts to contact.

If a reasonable amount of time (these are not radioactive or biohazards and they are hidden you can give them 6 month or even a year to do something) passes with the owner not picking it up.

 

Pull the cache and you are done. You have both dealt with the cache and given the owner every chance to do the right thing.

 

I'm a big fan of the CRM (Cache Rescue Mission) concept where every cache is accounted for when it's end comes. I'm also a big fan of giving ownwers every chance to do the right thing and allowing them ample time to do so.

 

Recently, after hearing that a particular cache was in bad shape and the owner was not active any more, a group of us hiked in on a rescue mission. The cache was in a large plastic bucket which had deteriorated over the years. So we packed in a new bucket, emptied out the wet, moldy and rusty stuff, added new swag and log book basically rebuilding the cache from the ground up. We did this because it was one of the earliest caches in the state, was in a great location and generally thought worth saving.

 

However, if this was an unmaintained vacation cache in similar condition and the owner was unresponsive, it would have been CITOed out of there without a second thought. If any of the heavy hitters on this board want to fly over to slap on the cuffs for that then come ahead. Giving someone six months or a year to maintain a cache is ridiculous. If they can't do it in a matter of weeks then they are not maintaining the cache. Geocaching.com is a great national umbrella organization but they are not set up to do anything at the local level. That being the case, local organizations and groups of cachers have to fill that role. The standards we apply in Hawaii may not match those that work elsewhere.

Edited by Etoa Nrish
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...Giving someone six months or a year to maintain a cache is ridiculous. If they can't do it in a matter of weeks then they are not maintaining the cache....

 

Like you said. How you do it there may not be how it's done somewhere else. It's simpler (and usually better to keep it simple) to use the most general rules than apply 280 variations.

 

That said even in Hawaii family gets sick, work sends you on a trip, folks take sabbaticals, houses break, friends hit rough times, and life happens. That can take all your spare time. Here we have winter. You may not be able to access your cache except for 3 months in the summer. Kick in a move to a new location or a friend or two moving who need your help and three months is can flash by.

 

For the sake of argument consider. You likely have friends and family who (should) all rate as far more important than any one cache. Have you seen them all "in the last few weeks" ? I haven't.

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...Giving someone six months or a year to maintain a cache is ridiculous. If they can't do it in a matter of weeks then they are not maintaining the cache....

 

Like you said. How you do it there may not be how it's done somewhere else. It's simpler (and usually better to keep it simple) to use the most general rules than apply 280 variations.

 

That said even in Hawaii family gets sick, work sends you on a trip, folks take sabbaticals, houses break, friends hit rough times, and life happens. That can take all your spare time. Here we have winter. You may not be able to access your cache except for 3 months in the summer. Kick in a move to a new location or a friend or two moving who need your help and three months is can flash by.

 

For the sake of argument consider. You likely have friends and family who (should) all rate as far more important than any one cache. Have you seen them all "in the last few weeks" ? I haven't.

 

Sure life happens. Family gets sick, roof leaks, business trip comes up, but responsible people juggle these kinds of priorities all the time. So you put a note on the cache page that the cache is down for a month while you get your crisis sorted out. Or you ask a caching friend to go out and fix the cache for you. But 6 months, a year, no. If your life is that full then maybe hiding caches is not a good activity for you. And, are you finding caches while this crisis is going on? If so, then it is just that cache maintenance is not a priority for you. If you go on a sabbatical you get someone to mow the lawn (or whatever) while you are gone, so get someone to maintain your caches while you are away.

 

Don't get me started on winter. Cache maintenance is something that should be considered when placing the cache. If you put it where you can't get to it easily when there is snow on the ground then get out the snowshoes bub; it is your job and you got it to do. Maybe you might think me unreasonable but when you place a cache you are obligated to maintain it, not just during the summer time or when it is convenient for you but when the cache needs it.

Edited by Etoa Nrish
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...Sure life happens. Family gets sick, roof leaks, business trip comes up, but responsible people juggle these kinds of priorities all the time....Don't get me started on winter. Cache maintenance is something that should be considered when placing the cache. ...

 

Life happens, and as such if the cache has to drop down the list, or off of the list for 10 years. So be it. It's a cache. Not life or death. It doesn't rise to the level of passing on lunch with a friend. Last night I was 'negotiating' cache maintace with someone helping me with a cache. The cache is losing. That's life. Have I forgotten the cache? Nope. I'll get to it as time and life allow.

 

As for winter. The simplest way to factor in winter is to use an ammo can. Then you don't need to maintain the thing during winter. Simple. If people are not finding it, they are not causing a need for mainteniance.

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Having read large chunks of this thread and then going back through my own finds, I vote a large "NO" to vacation caches. Here's why: Maui Cache

 

This is an amazing spot on the edge of Maui. Gets tons of visits. Placed by a person from Washington. It's been having problems since February of 07. Contents soaked, logs too wet to write on, container reduced to a couple zip locks and a garbage bag. And because the spot is so cool people still hunt for it. When we logged it, it was not much more than trash in a bag. I felt bad for not noticing the problem and packing some new tupperware to replace the bags.

 

It's not adopted, there's no mention of a local cache buddy to maintain it. It's had maintenance notes posted for ages. The owner has not been on geocaching.com in over a year. They found 5 caches and placed one. this one.

 

The only hope for this one is that someone who has a trip planned will bring a new container and then replace it. But that's a temporary fix at best. The thing should be archived and a local cacher take over the spot.

 

Sorry, I must be fussy today, but this one is a great example of how NOT to place a cache.

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I found out that the easiest way to place vacation caches in hawaii is to create a new account and put my home location there.

 

worked great for all 6 of them.

 

LOL! But can you maintain them???

 

I don't think that he gives a rip whether he can maintain them or not. This is a prime example of why vacation caches don't work. Look at his record. Of the ten caches he has placed close to home in the last two years only three are still active. The rest are archived or disabled after only a few months in the field. What a loser.

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Having read large chunks of this thread and then going back through my own finds, I vote a large "NO" to vacation caches. Here's why: Maui Cache

 

This is an amazing spot on the edge of Maui. Gets tons of visits. Placed by a person from Washington. It's been having problems since February of 07. Contents soaked, logs too wet to write on, container reduced to a couple zip locks and a garbage bag. And because the spot is so cool people still hunt for it. When we logged it, it was not much more than trash in a bag. I felt bad for not noticing the problem and packing some new tupperware to replace the bags.

 

It's not adopted, there's no mention of a local cache buddy to maintain it. It's had maintenance notes posted for ages. The owner has not been on geocaching.com in over a year. They found 5 caches and placed one. this one.

 

The only hope for this one is that someone who has a trip planned will bring a new container and then replace it. But that's a temporary fix at best. The thing should be archived and a local cacher take over the spot.

 

Sorry, I must be fussy today, but this one is a great example of how NOT to place a cache.

 

Thanks for the heads-up. I published that cache based on the CO's promise that he visited several times a year and had friends who lived nearby who would also help. I e-mailed him this morning asking him to follow through on his promise, but as he has not logged onto the site in over a year, nor responded to requests for maintenance going back at least two years, I don't hold out much hope. Perhaps a future visitor will take the initiative to trash out what has obviously become trash and post a "should be archived" note to open up a great area to local cache placement. As a cache reviewer I can't ask that be done, as the cache is still considered to be the property of the cache placer.

 

Old timers may remember that many geocaches placed by visitors on the south shore of Maui were archived at the request of someone in local government many years ago for this same reason - lack of maintenance. At the time that included virtual caches leading people down closed roads on NPS administered land. Hopefully we can police our sport so it won't be done for us.

 

~erik~

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What a loser.

While I agree with your stance on vacation caches, I don't think it's appropriate to call someone a "loser" in this forum.

Actually, if the cacher in question was telling the truth about her/his vacation cache placement strategy, and not simply joking (and I do hope that he/she was joking....), then the term "loser" is a perfectly valid descriptive term, and further, the descriptive term "idiot" might apply as well. You see, these terms have not been used as random insults, but as simple descriptors of exhibited behaviors, and the poster in question (i.e., the one to whose behaviors the descriptive terms were applied) has already provided ample examples of their incredibly careless and wanton behaviors.

Edited by Vinny & Sue Team
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What a loser.
While I agree with your stance on vacation caches, I don't think it's appropriate to call someone a "loser" in this forum.
Actually, if the cacher in question was telling the truth about her/his vacation cache placement strategy, and not simply joking (and I do hope that he/she was joking....), then the term "loser" is a perfectly valid descriptive term, and further, the descriptive term "idiot" might apply as well. You see, these terms have not been used as random insults, but as simple descriptors of exhibited behaviors, and the poster in question (i.e., the one to whose behaviors the descriptive terms were applied) has already provided ample examples of their incredibly careless and wanton behaviors.
Otherwise, I think that people need to be better at identifying obvious sarcasm and not violate the forum guidelines when something is on the bubble. Actually, it migt be a good idea for people not to call others names even if the person wasn't being sarcastic. After all, the post 'claiming' to have hidden the six caches wasn't in violation of the forum guidelines, but the post calling him a loser certainly was. Edited by sbell111
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I found out that the easiest way to place vacation caches in hawaii is to create a new account and put my home location there.

 

worked great for all 6 of them.

LOL! But can you maintain them???
I don't think that he gives a rip whether he can maintain them or not. This is a prime example of why vacation caches don't work. Look at his record. Of the ten caches he has placed close to home in the last two years only three are still active. The rest are archived or disabled after only a few months in the field. What a loser.
I looked at his caches, apparently better than you did.
  • His oldest four caches are archived.
    - Two of these were archived because they went missing.
    - Two were removed to make room for new caches.
  • Three of his caches were recently disabled for the winter. He lives in Minnesota. They have winter there.
  • Three remain active.

A quick review of his caches finds that he reacts promptly to issues, disables caches immediately if a problem is reported, and maintains good communication regarding his intentions.

 

He looks like a responsible cache owner.

Edited by sbell111
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I found out that the easiest way to place vacation caches in hawaii is to create a new account and put my home location there.

 

worked great for all 6 of them.

 

LOL! But can you maintain them???

 

I don't think that he gives a rip whether he can maintain them or not. This is a prime example of why vacation caches don't work. Look at his record. Of the ten caches he has placed close to home in the last two years only three are still active. The rest are archived or disabled after only a few months in the field. What a loser.

Three are disabled until spring because they're not winter-friendly -- good ownership. Two were archived as soon as they were muggled -- good ownership. The other two were archived after one year to make room for other caches -- good ownership. What is it you don't like about that record?

 

Besides, I'm pretty sure it was a joke.

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Having read large chunks of this thread and then going back through my own finds, I vote a large "NO" to vacation caches. Here's why: Maui Cache

 

This is an amazing spot on the edge of Maui. Gets tons of visits. Placed by a person from Washington. It's been having problems since February of 07. Contents soaked, logs too wet to write on, container reduced to a couple zip locks and a garbage bag. And because the spot is so cool people still hunt for it. When we logged it, it was not much more than trash in a bag. I felt bad for not noticing the problem and packing some new tupperware to replace the bags.

 

It's not adopted, there's no mention of a local cache buddy to maintain it. It's had maintenance notes posted for ages. The owner has not been on geocaching.com in over a year. They found 5 caches and placed one. this one.

 

The only hope for this one is that someone who has a trip planned will bring a new container and then replace it. But that's a temporary fix at best. The thing should be archived and a local cacher take over the spot.

 

Sorry, I must be fussy today, but this one is a great example of how NOT to place a cache.

 

Thanks for the heads-up. I published that cache based on the CO's promise that he visited several times a year and had friends who lived nearby who would also help. I e-mailed him this morning asking him to follow through on his promise, but as he has not logged onto the site in over a year, nor responded to requests for maintenance going back at least two years, I don't hold out much hope. Perhaps a future visitor will take the initiative to trash out what has obviously become trash and post a "should be archived" note to open up a great area to local cache placement. As a cache reviewer I can't ask that be done, as the cache is still considered to be the property of the cache placer.

 

Old timers may remember that many geocaches placed by visitors on the south shore of Maui were archived at the request of someone in local government many years ago for this same reason - lack of maintenance. At the time that included virtual caches leading people down closed roads on NPS administered land. Hopefully we can police our sport so it won't be done for us.

 

~erik~

 

So I love the spot where the trashed cache is located. It's an amazing point of land and seems to me to be full of some sort of island spirit (I can't better describe it). If you can hook me up with a local cacher, I'll send them a decent replacement cache to put out there. I'm not back there till April, but can get something in the mail pretty easily. Since there are no "Adopted Vacation Caches", I'd like to offer up the replacement.

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I don't think that he gives a rip whether he can maintain them or not. This is a prime example of why vacation caches don't work. Look at his record. Of the ten caches he has placed close to home in the last two years only three are still active. The rest are archived or disabled after only a few months in the field. What a loser.

Three are disabled until spring because they're not winter-friendly -- good ownership. Two were archived as soon as they were muggled -- good ownership. The other two were archived after one year to make room for other caches -- good ownership. What is it you don't like about that record?

 

Besides, I'm pretty sure it was a joke.

 

what a loser? ow. hehe.

 

Look again at my hides. read the logs. People seem to enjoy them quite a lot, and I put a lot of effort into every one of them because that is important to me.

 

BTW... yes, it was a joke. I actually agree with much of your position. No need for attacks against me. :lol:

 

I do understand your point, and I find you to be a good cache owner as well. You emailed me almost immediately upon a DNF I posted (which I felt bad about, since I didn't look that hard, I was just there for the view and I don't care about my find count.).

 

I've been told that people in your state have an almost legendary hate for people from outside of it, which is unfortunate, and probably has something to do with some of the posts in this thread, but try to remember this is supposed to be fun, there's no reason to attack people even if you disagree with them, especially if they mostly agree with you and are just joking. B) :hugs:

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"I've been told that people in your state have an almost legendary hate for people from outside of it, which is unfortunate,..."

 

Please don't confuse our distaste for many vacation caches as a dislike of visiting cachers.

Very many of us(Hawaii Locals) routinely take visitors for hikes or caching days... and really enjoy it!

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Please don't confuse our distaste for many vacation caches as a dislike of visiting cachers.

Very many of us(Hawaii Locals) routinely take visitors for hikes or caching days... and really enjoy it!

 

Count me as one of the "haole" that have been on caching adventures with most of the geohana. Everything from short walks to epic hikes up and over ridge lines with 1000' drops. We've had beers and dinners together, traded coins and swapped stories.

 

There may be other groups of people in HAwaii who don't like visitors, but not the cachers.

 

I can't wait to head back out...I got a handful of Altoid tins ready to spread around downtown Waikiki.

 

I'm kidding, I'm kidding! :anicute:

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What a loser.
While I agree with your stance on vacation caches, I don't think it's appropriate to call someone a "loser" in this forum.
Actually, if the cacher in question was telling the truth about her/his vacation cache placement strategy, and not simply joking (and I do hope that he/she was joking....), then the term "loser" is a perfectly valid descriptive term, and further, the descriptive term "idiot" might apply as well. You see, these terms have not been used as random insults, but as simple descriptors of exhibited behaviors, and the poster in question (i.e., the one to whose behaviors the descriptive terms were applied) has already provided ample examples of their incredibly careless and wanton behaviors.
Otherwise, I think that people need to be better at identifying obvious sarcasm and not violate the forum guidelines when something is on the bubble. Actually, it migt be a good idea for people not to call others names even if the person wasn't being sarcastic. After all, the post 'claiming' to have hidden the six caches wasn't in violation of the forum guidelines, but the post calling him a loser certainly was.

 

I do apologize to the folks on this forum for violating the forum guidelines. I should have phrased my characterization differently.

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