Jump to content

Front Yard Caches


olvegrn

Recommended Posts

:( I need some input before I go to the big dogs on a new rule.

 

In 92084, there has been an uprising in "frontyard" caches. This is a good and a bad thing all at the same time.

Good: new caches for people to find. Adds another element to the difficulty of a cache. Hones your Stealth skill :) .

Bad: When a cache is placed in a yard, the possibility of it being off the numbers is always there, thus having the seeker go into the neighboring yards to find it. They are not always hidden in the cachers yard or even a friends yard. This is the main problem I have with these types of caches. I am going to pursue going to Groundspeak with a proposal to stop front yard caches. I don't know how it is going to work out, but I want to make sure that the fun doesn't stop, and nobody gets hurt. I have already heard of a shooting threat in the area. NOT COOL!

 

Please, chew me out or build me up, I need your input on the matter.

 

HAPPY CACHING!

Link to comment

I have done (but have not logged) some of the caches you are talking about...one of them the neighbors followed us for about a mile...we stopped...they came back and wrote down our license plate.

 

Another says it is in the bushes and NO need to enter the drive way...was about to leave when we saw the cache...25' away...down the drive way on the edge of a bush.

 

I agree with you 100% all front yard caches should be banned.

 

Yes I have done some great caches at peoples houses...but the new ones are not great...they are dangerous...with poor coords and poor placement...not to mention a total disregard for peoples neighbors.

 

Have fun and happy caching!

Edited by GoBolts!
Link to comment

If you recognize that a cache is in a location you're not comfortable with, skip it, and put it on your ignore list. This goes for front yards, sewage drains, cliff sides, etc. Some of us actually enjoy caches that you might hate because the danger level is too high.

 

You only need to worry about you. There is no need for you to save us from ourselves. We're big boys and girls, and we can decide if we want to risk looking for a cache or not.

 

Don't call for a ban on a kind of cache just because you don't like it.

 

If you don't like 'em, skip 'em.

Link to comment

:( I need some input before I go to the big dogs on a new rule.

 

In 92084, there has been an uprising in "frontyard" caches. This is a good and a bad thing all at the same time.

Good: new caches for people to find. Adds another element to the difficulty of a cache. Hones your Stealth skill :) .

Bad: When a cache is placed in a yard, the possibility of it being off the numbers is always there, thus having the seeker go into the neighboring yards to find it. They are not always hidden in the cachers yard or even a friends yard. This is the main problem I have with these types of caches. I am going to pursue going to Groundspeak with a proposal to stop front yard caches. I don't know how it is going to work out, but I want to make sure that the fun doesn't stop, and nobody gets hurt. I have already heard of a shooting threat in the area. NOT COOL!

 

Please, chew me out or build me up, I need your input on the matter.

 

HAPPY CACHING!

Wow! With one or two notable exceptions, I had largely never heard of this type of cache! And, if the residential yard in question is in a crowded housing development (aka subdivision), that could pose BIG problems, and I agree that such caches, with certain rare exceptions such as Big Boy in MI, should be considered for banning, or should at least be examined with caution! Out here where I live -- in a rural wilderness area in the mountains of Western Maryland, where homes are at least 1/8 mile to 1/2 mile apart and separated by large swatches of forest, that would not, of course, be a problem at all. So, any ban on such frontyard or backyard caches would need to specify that the ban applies only ot caches in crowded residential neighborhoods and not to residential yards in a rural wilderness area such as the one where I live.

 

Lastly, ultimately, the decision to seek or not to seek a cache is entirely in the mind of the cache seeker. If they choose to wander all over people's private front yards and then end up getting shot to death, in my book, they brought that action upon themselves. Do I/we need to remind cache seekers that they should use common sense and prudence when seeking caches?

Edited by Vinny & Sue Team
Link to comment

that could pose BIG problems, and I agree that such caches, with certain rare exceptions such as Big Boy in MI, should be banned!

I have a couple of questions for you.

 

1- What is different about Big Boy that makes it not need to be banned?

 

2- What would you say if I wanted to get the site to ban caches that required a lot of climbing through pipes, up pylons, etc., because it was dangerous and it was only a matter of time until someone was killed?

Link to comment

I agree that we don't need more rules and I also agree that determining which caches to search out are at the discretion of the cacher. I've come upon a number of caches that for whatever reason I didn't like so I left... almost always it's a location thing.

 

I've come across only a limited number of front yard caches. One was under a mailbox. The cache author identified the house as "friendly" and stated it was okay to go for the cache and even identified a parking area as not to bother the neighbors. As it turns out it was the cacher's own home. On a separate occasion I had coordinates for a cache that led me directly into the middle on someones yard... that was a no go for me... until I called a friend to confirm my cords and it turned out I had the wrong numbers punched in. After a correction I was on the outside edge of the front yard. I still wasn't comfortable but at least I wasn't in someones yard.

 

I guess one of the cool things about what we do is we have final say over what we want to go after. The rules are open enough to allow for us to search out whatever we like. As uncomfortably as I am with front yard caches, someone else might love the idea. Who am I to stop their fun... I don't want them stopping mine.

 

My two cents.

 

MoonGecko

Edited by moongecko
Link to comment

I'm not seeing any need for a "new rule". There's already a requirement for permission for caches on private property. Residential lots are private property. Either the caches have permission or they don't. Or they aren't within the private lot, but are within the county road right of way.

 

If I thought a cache was well within a residential property boundary, I might email the cache owner and ask if there were permission. If no response I *might* log a Needs Archived. This is all unlikely as I wouldn't drive into the area in the first place. Personally, I never seek caches in residential districts, including the little neighborhood parks common in subdivisions. Great sport geocaching, something for everyone, and the ability to ignore all the stuff you don't like.

Link to comment

Groundspeak is supportive of front yard caches if they meet the listing guidelines. The first one I found was in the front yard of a Groundspeak employee!

 

Often, this is a newbie's first cache hide. It would be discouraging if that cache got shot down in the review process. Instead, I try to work with the hider to make sure that any issues are addressed. Of course, this presumes that the reviewer is able to identify the cache as a "front yard cache," which isn't always possible unless the cache page says so.

 

This happens enough for me that I have a saved form letter that I place on cache pages:

 

Hello, I am a volunteer for Geocaching.com and I have reviewed your cache submission. Welcome to geocaching, and thanks for hiding a cache.

 

This cache looks like it's hidden in a residential area. Hopefully it is on your own property, because caches on private property need clear evidence of permission. Geocachers are often very uncomfortable searching for a cache near a residence. It would help people enjoy your cache, and you'll get more visitors, if you could edit your cache description to say that you are the owner of the property and that people have permission to search there. If you need to attach any conditions, like "no searching after 10:00 at night," it would be a good idea to mention this on your cache page also. Otherwise, expect bumps in the night and barking dogs at 2:00 a.m. Finally, because of bad satellite reception, approaching from the wrong direction, etc., it is possible that geocachers may inadvertently trespass on your neighbors' property. Please consider telling your neighbors about your geocache, and adding a hint to let people know they're at the correct house.

 

Once you have edited your cache page to address these issues, let me know this and I will take another look at your submission. To respond, please do NOT send me an e-mail. Leave a "Note to Reviewer" here on your cache page. I have your cache on my watchlist, and I will receive a notification when you write your note. All reviewer notes are deleted when your cache is published.

 

Thanks,

Keystone

Geocaching.com Volunteer Cache Reviewer

Link to comment
1- What is different about Big Boy that makes it not need to be banned?

 

2- What would you say if I wanted to get the site to ban caches that required a lot of climbing through pipes, up pylons, etc., because it was dangerous and it was only a matter of time until someone was killed?

Here's what I think the difference is:

 

If you fall off the top of a giant pylon in the middle of a river, then all you've hurt is yourself (and the guy in the kayak beneath you).

 

If you poke around suspiciously in the bushes in a residential neighborhood, you may make other neighbors that didn't "opt-in" to geocaching nervous and uncomfortable.

 

If we're gonna ban anything, I think there's a stronger case to ban the latter than the former.

 

But I don't agree that anything needs banning or that rules need to change.

 

-eP

Link to comment

We placed one like this in our front yard, never thinking about concerns like this coming up. I found out later that a couple of people tried for it but didn't finish because it was hidden about 20' from the road into our yard. BTW, our yard is a little bit over an acre so it would be hard to inadvertantly end up in the wrong yard.

 

Anyways, because of this being uncomfortable for some, we changed things up a bit. We now have a small homemade sign with the geocaching logo painted on it put up where it is easily seen from the road. I figure this ought to let anyone who comes searching for the cache, know for sure that they are in the right spot!

Edited by Mudfrog
Link to comment

I don't think this is a case of inadequate rules, as much as it is a case of poor cache placement. As with many of the caches that are discussed in the forums, it's not the cache type as a whole that is at fault. It is the poor planing, intentional or not, on the part of the hider that is to blame.

We don't need to ban any group caches as a whole merely because some of them, or for that matter, most of that type, were poorly placed. The fault in the system goes back to the hider that did not fully consider the implications and complications of their cache placement. This may be due to inexperience or just the "I don't care attitude" that many folks have anymore. Whatever the cause we should not start slapping bans on the caches types.

The answer lies with the cachers. The cacher hider needs to do all that they can to hide a quality cache. The cache seeker needs to realize when and where they are and what they're are doing. Just because the cache is there does mean you *have* to go get.

 

As far "yard" caches go, I have found two that was very well done and were documented as to what and where there were. In both cases the owner made it clear that this was on their property, and where, roughly, on the property as was. Also in both cases the presence of the cache was known by the neighbors.

 

If we began ban types of caches because some of their type were ill advised, we soon would end up banning caching as a whole.

Link to comment

I won't hunt these front yard caches because they make me uncomfortable and because in the back of my mind I do wonder if my GPS could be off and I'm in someone else's yard.

 

You are free to do the same and let those who enjoy these caches hunt them. We don't need another rule.

Link to comment

Big Boy is placed in a driveway in a suburban area...houses are right beside each other! I doubt there would be much mistaking it though!

 

I've found a few yard caches...I like MOST of them! I agree that you should have some identifying markers to let visitors know the area is friendly! Also, if you're going to hide a cache in your yard where the neighbors might see someone stalking about, the neighbors should be made aware of the hide and the visitors!

 

edit to add: No need to call for a ban on something you don't like! These caches can be placed so as to be safe and fun...the ones in your area may not be placed as such. A note to the owner explaining the situation instead of a call to ban might be the answer.

Edited by Rockin Roddy
Link to comment

While i agree that caution is needed in this area i do not think that all FYC should be banned. We have only done one, and the instructions are very clear and helpful.

 

I think the majority of the responsibility falls on the cache owner to make sure it is in a good location with a proper description and instructions.

 

The one we visited was simple and a very cool container. I am glad it was there.

Link to comment

Unless the cache has very clear directions so I absolutely know that I'm in the right place, I drive by these caches and ignore them. I don't think that any rule is necessary here.

 

Plus, you would end up defining what a 'front yard cache' is. What if the cache is in a side yard? What if it's a small empty lot in a community? How big does the yard have to be for it to be OK?

 

It's easier for me to just use my brain on these, rather than try to implement some rule that covers all situations.

Link to comment

I've found several front yard/porch caches and hey guess what I found one yesterday. While they are not on the top of my list I will go for it if I feel comfortable and I have a good idea as to where to look. I have seen listings where the owners have added the house number and dead spoilers to find the cache.

 

Please, no rules are required and as Keystone posted the VCR's help out with these type of listings to nudge folks in the right direction.

Link to comment

Why does one cacher feel he should change things for everyone else. If you don't like these caches, don't do them. There is a big enough variety that will keep you going with what you'll like to do. We are all grown up and can make up our own minds, we don't need anybody doing it for us.

Soon we'll all have to wear padding and helmits, and pay to do each cache.

Leave well enough alone.

Link to comment

I agree that this should be a case by case decision by the reviewers, like any caches on private propetries are. Steps have to be taken to avoid sending geocachers on the wrong properties, but many ways to do that have already been suggested (signs, big visible container, etc) and I don't see why that wouldn't be sufficient.

 

This thread does make me worry though : is getting shot at for stepping on someone else's front yard a real possibility? <_< Nobody said the OP was exagerating the risk, so it seems to be. I try not to believe all that is being said about Americans, but, well, in Canada you only risk getting yelled at. Maybe we are not as protective of our front lawns...

Link to comment

Groundspeak is supportive of front yard caches if they meet the listing guidelines. The first one I found was in the front yard of a Groundspeak employee!

 

Often, this is a newbie's first cache hide. It would be discouraging if that cache got shot down in the review process. Instead, I try to work with the hider to make sure that any issues are addressed. Of course, this presumes that the reviewer is able to identify the cache as a "front yard cache," which isn't always possible unless the cache page says so.

 

This happens enough for me that I have a saved form letter that I place on cache pages:

 

Hello, I am a volunteer for Geocaching.com and I have reviewed your cache submission. Welcome to geocaching, and thanks for hiding a cache.

 

This cache looks like it's hidden in a residential area. Hopefully it is on your own property, because caches on private property need clear evidence of permission. Geocachers are often very uncomfortable searching for a cache near a residence. It would help people enjoy your cache, and you'll get more visitors, if you could edit your cache description to say that you are the owner of the property and that people have permission to search there. If you need to attach any conditions, like "no searching after 10:00 at night," it would be a good idea to mention this on your cache page also. Otherwise, expect bumps in the night and barking dogs at 2:00 a.m. Finally, because of bad satellite reception, approaching from the wrong direction, etc., it is possible that geocachers may inadvertently trespass on your neighbors' property. Please consider telling your neighbors about your geocache, and adding a hint to let people know they're at the correct house.

 

Once you have edited your cache page to address these issues, let me know this and I will take another look at your submission. To respond, please do NOT send me an e-mail. Leave a "Note to Reviewer" here on your cache page. I have your cache on my watchlist, and I will receive a notification when you write your note. All reviewer notes are deleted when your cache is published.

 

Thanks,

Keystone

Geocaching.com Volunteer Cache Reviewer

I feel that is an excellent perspective on the situation and an excellent reply. Thank you for saying it so well!

Link to comment

I just don't understand why a cache owner would want to bring people in to have them search around in their yard. I've found a couple that were interesting, but I've driven away from several others.

 

If I don't feel comfortable looking for a cache--whatever type of cache it may be--I'm under no obligation to do so. If others want to look, that's their prerogative. I just hit the "ignore" button and go about my happy little life.

Link to comment

I was at a cache like this in Florida a few days ago. Although I was not yet on private property and still getting readings from the GPSR, some apparent neighors who didn't know about the cache came out and confronted me. Two guys and a woman who demanded to know who I was and what I was doing hanging around the area. I started to explain but they threatened to call the cops so I discreetly left. I'm fairly new at this and have learned a valuable lesson. NO FRONT YARD CACHES period!!!! I'm doing this for fun, not confrontations. My advice to anyone considering placing a cache in their's or somone else's front yard, would be to at least inform ALL the neighbors as to what is happening. If you are not comfortable talking to ALL the neighbors about it, then don't be stupid enough to expect anything but problems at some point. Just remember, there are crazies in this world who won't hesitate to shoot and ask questions later.

Link to comment

If I don't clearly know where the cache is at - I stay out of people's yards. I am just not going to walk on the property and start poking around.

 

I have skipped 2 or 3 when I got there and surveyed the area and could not clearly identify where to go. Several other's were actually quite nice caches and led me to meet a few cachers.

 

No need for more rules.

Link to comment

One of these I looked for made me never want to do one again if I am caching alone. Now, if the arrow on my GPSr was sending me into a neighborhood, I would pull over, read the description in my Palm, make sure there was mention about the neighbors being aware of the cache, and make sure there was a very good hint.

 

If I didn't see that in the description, I would keep driving.

 

I think what Keystone writes back to the new cache hider is excellent. Maybe something like that could be sent back to a cacher placing an LPC. <_<

Link to comment
and a GPS @ Apr 18 2007, 07:24 AM)

 

 

That is Big Boy. I think that is easy enough to find that nobody is going to look in the nieghbor's yard.....bad coordinates or not!

 

We will be placing a cache on our vacation property but will put GC stickers on the No tressassing signs, so cachers will know it is OK.

 

Sweet! Where'd they get it?

 

 

Team Desert Eagle made it themselves.

Link to comment

<_< I need some input before I go to the big dogs on a new rule..... They are not always hidden in the cachers yard...

 

I have never found a front yard cache anywhere but in the cachers own yard. Never. Zero. Nada. Zip. I know because I am in the habit of going up to the front door, knocking and introducing myself while the rest of my team searches for the cache.

 

20' accuracy on a 60' wide lot, has done the job.

 

That said, I'm also not aware of anybody having been killed for straying into someones front yard when they fell off a skateboard, bike, walked to cut across a corner, or their dog took a big dump and they neglected to clean it up.

 

Further since geocachers are who they are, they don't tend to live in the neighborhoods that would get you killed just for driving down the wrong road. Let alone be in the wrong front yard on accident.

 

I think you are barking up the wrong tree.

Link to comment

I won't hunt these front yard caches because they make me uncomfortable and because in the back of my mind I do wonder if my GPS could be off and I'm in someone else's yard.

 

You are free to do the same and let those who enjoy these caches hunt them. We don't need another rule.

Exactly!

Link to comment

We now have a small homemade sign with the geocaching logo painted on it put up where it is easily seen from the road. I figure this ought to let anyone who comes searching for the cache, know for sure that they are in the right spot!

 

I put a geocaching.com sticker on my mailbox.

 

We will be placing a cache on our vacation property but will put GC stickers on the No tressassing signs, so cachers will know it is OK.

 

I'm having problems with hunters tresspassing and will likely do the same. I was hoping it would be self explanatory that it was OK for geocachers and would probably also make a note on the cache listing.

Link to comment

This my sound odd but you don't need to find every cache out there, I am going on five years of caching and only have 215 finds, if a cache looks like crap on the cache page skip it, if you drive to one and it looks hinky keep driving and get the next one.

I have one at the end of my driveway (GCZW0N), I live in a rual area and I spell it out clearly on the cache page where it is at, heck you can see the cache as you drive by.

Link to comment

Two guys and a woman who demanded to know who I was and what I was doing hanging around the area. I started to explain but they threatened to call the cops so I discreetly left.

 

They had no right to do that. Dont be intimidated becasue some people are rude. They can ask, but they cant demand.

 

Just because you had results that you didnt like- doesnt mean it should be ruined for everyone else.

Link to comment

Two guys and a woman who demanded to know who I was and what I was doing hanging around the area. I started to explain but they threatened to call the cops so I discreetly left.

 

They had no right to do that. Dont be intimidated becasue some people are rude. They can ask, but they cant demand.

 

Just because you had results that you didnt like- doesnt mean it should be ruined for everyone else.

 

As I said, I'm not in this for the confrontations. I'm also not stupid enought to hang around and argue over a fifty cent piece of paper to sign. If I'm gonna squabble over my "rights" it will be for something that has some value. Everyone else can do as they please in these circumstances, I'm just talking for myself.

Link to comment

:o I need some input before I go to the big dogs on a new rule.

 

In 92084, there has been an uprising in "frontyard" caches. This is a good and a bad thing all at the same time.

Good: new caches for people to find. Adds another element to the difficulty of a cache. Hones your Stealth skill <_< .

Bad: When a cache is placed in a yard, the possibility of it being off the numbers is always there, thus having the seeker go into the neighboring yards to find it. They are not always hidden in the cachers yard or even a friends yard. This is the main problem I have with these types of caches. I am going to pursue going to Groundspeak with a proposal to stop front yard caches. I don't know how it is going to work out, but I want to make sure that the fun doesn't stop, and nobody gets hurt. I have already heard of a shooting threat in the area. NOT COOL!

 

Please, chew me out or build me up, I need your input on the matter.

 

HAPPY CACHING!

 

To me, it's first the responsibility of the cache owner to speak with neighbors in the area. Secondly, the responsibility of the cacher to use sound judgment.

 

Propose a rule? Think about this...a rule needs to be in place for the good of everyone. While this may be a reasonable guideline in CA it isn't in IA in most places. Please don't try to impose rules that negatively affect others that don't have that issue and aren't more universal issues.

 

If this is an issue in your area then please work through "guidelines" with your local cache verifcation people.

Edited by egami
Link to comment

There are only 2 exceptions, IMO, that make a front yard cache OK.

1. If the person's "yard" is in a more rural area with no one else being bothered. This means no immediate neighbors that would be bothered by cachers and CLEAR instructions so that people don't wander around a neighborhood looking suspicious.

2. If the cache owner asked ALL of his neighbors if placing the cache would be Ok and explaining what it is thouroughly. I imagine some, but not many, people would do this before considering placing a cache in their yard...otherwise, you're just asking for trouble.

I'm not a very suspicious person, but I'll admit, if I saw someone lurking in my yard or my neighbor's yard, I'd definately keep my on on them, and if I saw someone in their bushes or looking around near the house, I'd consider calling the police myself and that's WITH knowing about geocaching...now, imagine someone who has no idea that geocaching exists, I have a feeling it could get ugly/dangerous in that case.

Link to comment

Well, this had a good turnout with some good arguements. The majority of the caches I am finding here in FY's are there without the owner knowing about it, hence the evil glares many cachers are receiving. I'll keep this one open a little longer to see what else people have to say. \

 

I still think that Geocaching should have tighter rules regarding Yard caches. Like I said before, by the time the hider gets coords and the seeker gets to 0, there can be a big difference in actual position....like say, an NRA neighbors yard.

Link to comment

Well, this had a good turnout with some good arguements. The majority of the caches I am finding here in FY's are there without the owner knowing about it, hence the evil glares many cachers are receiving. I'll keep this one open a little longer to see what else people have to say. ...

Show me. You are proposing rules but are only generalizing experiences that others dont seem to be having.

Link to comment

I will not do a front yard or backyard cache.

 

In the great state of Florida under the "stand your ground" law, one can legally shoot someone to death if you catch them snooping around your home, so you had better be sure your coordinates are correct.

Link to comment

There are only 2 exceptions, IMO, that make a front yard cache OK.

1. If the person's "yard" is in a more rural area with no one else being bothered. This means no immediate neighbors that would be bothered by cachers and CLEAR instructions so that people don't wander around a neighborhood looking suspicious.

2. If the cache owner asked ALL of his neighbors if placing the cache would be Ok and explaining what it is thouroughly. I imagine some, but not many, people would do this before considering placing a cache in their yard...otherwise, you're just asking for trouble.

I'm not a very suspicious person, but I'll admit, if I saw someone lurking in my yard or my neighbor's yard, I'd definately keep my on on them, and if I saw someone in their bushes or looking around near the house, I'd consider calling the police myself and that's WITH knowing about geocaching...now, imagine someone who has no idea that geocaching exists, I have a feeling it could get ugly/dangerous in that case.

 

You have it exactly right AStargirl. If the neighbors don't know about it, it is not their fault, and they have every reason to check it out or call the police. It's just they way things are in today's world. We can have fun but we also need to use some common sense, given there a lot of people who have no clue the geocaching hobby exists.

Edited by Birdbath
Link to comment

Well, this had a good turnout with some good arguements. The majority of the caches I am finding here in FY's are there without the owner knowing about it, hence the evil glares many cachers are receiving. I'll keep this one open a little longer to see what else people have to say. \

 

I still think that Geocaching should have tighter rules regarding Yard caches. Like I said before, by the time the hider gets coords and the seeker gets to 0, there can be a big difference in actual position....like say, an NRA neighbors yard.

Perhaps all local cache Reviewers should send out a message like the one Keystone sends if they see from their maps the cache is placed in a residential area:

Hello, I am a volunteer for Geocaching.com and I have reviewed your cache submission. Welcome to geocaching, and thanks for hiding a cache.

 

This cache looks like it's hidden in a residential area. Hopefully it is on your own property, because caches on private property need clear evidence of permission. Geocachers are often very uncomfortable searching for a cache near a residence. It would help people enjoy your cache, and you'll get more visitors, if you could edit your cache description to say that you are the owner of the property and that people have permission to search there. If you need to attach any conditions, like "no searching after 10:00 at night," it would be a good idea to mention this on your cache page also. Otherwise, expect bumps in the night and barking dogs at 2:00 a.m. Finally, because of bad satellite reception, approaching from the wrong direction, etc., it is possible that geocachers may inadvertently trespass on your neighbors' property. Please consider telling your neighbors about your geocache, and adding a hint to let people know they're at the correct house.

 

Once you have edited your cache page to address these issues, let me know this and I will take another look at your submission. To respond, please do NOT send me an e-mail. Leave a "Note to Reviewer" here on your cache page. I have your cache on my watchlist, and I will receive a notification when you write your note. All reviewer notes are deleted when your cache is published.

 

Thanks,

Keystone

Geocaching.com Volunteer Cache Reviewer

Just an idea . . . idea.gif

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...