All caches in a state

[+VeryLost]

From another thread/board:

 

it would be nice if GC would allow "all caches in a state" PQ's.

 

Every now and again the question of how to get a file for all caches in a state comes up. There are a variety of approaches, from using overlapping geographic areas to building a series of PQs based on placed date. None of these are particularly hard to do, but they are mildly annoying to set up.

 

I got to wondering if it might be worthwhile for GC.com to offer complete state GPX file downloads for a small fee. It would be some easy revenue for GC, and would likely reduce PQ server load since it could be run once daily for each state/province/etc instead of running multiple PQs by multiple people at arbitrary times.

 

The question is, would the benefit outweigh the cost, for both GC and potential users. I know I'd happily drop a buck or three to be able to just grab the current data (up to date within a day or so) instantly when I want it. Or if I know I'm going to be taking a multi-state road trip and I don't have a specific route in mind, being able to quickly grab the files for any states I'm likely to spend time in would be nice, and certainly worth a few bucks each.

 

People who didn't want to buy these files could of course continue to use the existing PQ approaches. This would be strictly a pay for convenience sort of thing.

 

Comments? Improvements? Flames?

[+The Cheeseheads]

I won't comment on the merits or problems with the idea, as that horse has already been beaten.

 

I'll just say that I wouldn't be interested; I live in the far SE corner WI and just a few miles north of the far NE corner of IL. I would have no use for PQs containing caches 300 miles away from me. If I travel, I will create a PQ for my destination and route PQs for any of the likely routes I might take there and back.

 

What you need is the Geocaching Navigator software so you can always tell if there's a cache nearby.

[+mtn-man]

[+VeryLost]

What you need is the Geocaching Navigator software so you can always tell if there's a cache nearby.

 

Seven bucks a month plus changing my cellular provider/phone exceeds my irritation threshold

[Dosido]

I think that the allure of the 'whole state' PQ was really driven by wanting to be able to set up a solid 'caches along a route' thing, which used to be a true PITA before you could actually set up caches along a route at gc.com

 

Now, I don't really see the need to map the entire state when traveling. I do, however, maintain a fairly current database of all the caches in my home state, Massachusetts. Even before adding the ability to copy a PQ, it was really only very mildly time consuming to set it up initially - perhaps 20 minutes, and now is up to 7 PQs. I happen to live in the middle of the state, and like to be able to keep a fairly up to date map on Streets and Trips which I do via PQs and GSAK.

 

However, I might only update the PQs once a month, and export them all to my Explorist so I have every cache in MA on my GPSr, so I can hit them while traveling around the state.

 

Because it's trivial to set up for one state, I wouldn't be interested in paying extra for a whole state PQ of MA. Now, if there was no 'caches along a route' feature, then I'd be much more interested. I take a trip from MA to Michigan each year, and getting the route caches used to take days to set up all of the PQs to make sure I didn't miss any caches along the route - now it takes 5 minutes to do the same thing...

 

Frankly, TPTB missed the boat - I would've paid a fee just to use the caches along a route feature

[+The Cheeseheads]

Frankly, TPTB missed the boat - I would've paid a fee just to use the caches along a route feature

Shhhh!

 

 

 

 

[+Stunod]

I doubt I'd pay much for it...but it could be useful for planning a cache run thru a state. A full state PQ could let you optimize a route thru a state to reach areas of high-cache density. With a little advanced planning you could do this with your regular PQ's...but for a spur of the moment trip it could be usefull.

[+Markwell]

Wait - you're my neighbor (I'm in the 60585 zip). You've never wanted the data for Wisconsin or Indiana? Why would we need data for Olney? Why would we need data for caches around Warsaw?

 

I do maintain (for my own purposes) an offline database of my home area. I would think for everyday caching that would be enough. If (as your profile suggests), you're working on several "Challenge" caches like DeLorme or All County, I would think you'd want to target an area for plundering and create a specific PQ for that DeLorme page or county and a separate one for those along the route to the area.

 

Then run the PQs a day or two before going - bookmark the ones you want to grab into one bookmark list and then PQ the bookmark list right before leaving.

 

Makes more sense, right?

 

So to answer the question - meh. $0.

Edited April 9, 2007 by Markwell

[+VeryLost]

If (as your profile suggests), you're working on several "Challenge" caches like DeLorme or All County, I would think you'd want to target an area for plundering and create a specific PQ for that DeLorme page or county and a separate one for those along the route to the area.

 

I'm a lot more random than that. I regularly set off with only a few hours' advance warning, just to ramble around the back roads (I'm also an amateur photographer). I've got enough time to set up a filter in GSAK for the general area I'm heading to, but not enough to turn on the state-wide PQs with any assurance they'll run in time for my trip. With nice weather (hopefully) on its way, and a shiny new Suzuki Burgman to play with, I'll be doing this a lot more often.

 

I could - and probably will - just turn on my existing statewide PQs so they run every week, but I hate to take up limited resources if I'm not going to use them.

 

You also mentioned neighboring states, and for me that would be an ideal situation to be able to download pre-packaged whole-state files. I might know that I'm taking a trip to WI, but have no particular destination in mind. I could grab the whole state, toss it on my laptop, and load my GPSr for whatever region I eventually found myself in.

[crawil]

With almost 800 miles from north to south, I would not pay for a California state PQ. I think many of us from the larger states, in a geographical sense, would never consider making the trek from one side to the other on a regular basis. Most of us

[Motorcycle_Mama]

Living in the far southeastern corner of my state, having the whole state as a PQ wouldn't be useful to me.

 

Being able to go x number of miles out from my home coordinates (as the current system allows) makes much more sense to me. I'm more likely to go 30 miles and be in North Carolina than to go 300 miles to the other side of Virginia.

[+Loch Cache]

From another thread/board:

 

it would be nice if GC would allow "all caches in a state" PQ's.

 

Every now and again the question of how to get a file for all caches in a state comes up. There are a variety of approaches, from using overlapping geographic areas to building a series of PQs based on placed date. None of these are particularly hard to do, but they are mildly annoying to set up.

 

I got to wondering if it might be worthwhile for GC.com to offer complete state GPX file downloads for a small fee. It would be some easy revenue for GC, and would likely reduce PQ server load since it could be run once daily for each state/province/etc instead of running multiple PQs by multiple people at arbitrary times.

 

The question is, would the benefit outweigh the cost, for both GC and potential users. I know I'd happily drop a buck or three to be able to just grab the current data (up to date within a day or so) instantly when I want it. Or if I know I'm going to be taking a multi-state road trip and I don't have a specific route in mind, being able to quickly grab the files for any states I'm likely to spend time in would be nice, and certainly worth a few bucks each.

 

People who didn't want to buy these files could of course continue to use the existing PQ approaches. This would be strictly a pay for convenience sort of thing.

 

Comments? Improvements? Flames?

 

I think the OP makes a good point when they said, "People who didn't want to buy these files could of course continue to use the existing PQ approaches." I for one would find it easier to order a whole state PQ even if it was allowed only once per week. Perhaps on a set day and time each state could be compiled and sent to those who are signed up for them. Add a limit to say 10 states max per user and it would be more controlled.

 

The replies as to why a user wouldn't use the feature are not really important. If TPTB worried about having features that some would not use then most, if not all, the features would not exist. TPTB need to look at the benefit to the feature verses the cost of development and maintenance. However, I would hate to see the features start to be released and charged ala cart.

 

A slight variation (sorry if this is a highjack of the OP topic but it is related) how about a PQ that gives all the archived caches in an area. Many times I find the archiving of caches slip through and don't show in the PQs. I would not even need the whole PQ, just the GC# and say date of archive.

 

Loch Cache

[+Miragee]

For your request about Archived caches, that has been discussed many times. It ain't gonna happen . . .

 

If you are using GSAK to manage your data, just run a "Last .gpx Update" date filter to find the caches that weren't updated with the most recent PQs.

Edited April 10, 2007 by Miragee

[+StarBrand]

In about 10 minutes time, I can generate a route up to 500 miles and pull up to 500 of the caches along it and get the PQ in my inbox. Another 5 minutes and I am out the door. I can repeat this 5 times a day!!!

 

Why do I need more?

[+VeryLost]

In about 10 minutes time, I can generate a route up to 500 miles and pull up to 500 of the caches along it and get the PQ in my inbox. Another 5 minutes and I am out the door. I can repeat this 5 times a day!!! Why do I need more?

 

You don't need more. A lot of my day/weekend trips aren't nearly so carefully planned. I don't set out on a specific route. Instead, I pick a rough direction ("I think I'll go south west today") and head out. It'd be really convenient to download a complete file for the state onto my notebook right before I left. Later, when I get to an area that I want to cache in, a moments work loads the entire local area onto my GPSr.

 

Next month I'm taking a trip to visit relatives in Arizona. They do the random ramble thing too. I have no idea in advance where in the state we'll be going. I could build a set of one-off PQs to get the whole state. It'd be easier if I could just download a complete AZ listing a day or two before I go there. And if GC.com wants to charge me two or three bucks specifically for that download, I'm happy to pay it.

 

I'm seeing a lot of "I don't need it" answers, and that's fine. I haven't seen a "this is a bad idea because..." yet though. I see potential for revenue creation, as well as for reducing database load. Right now, if I want to get all caches in Illinois, that's 11 queries. I seriously doubt I'm the only one in the state who does this, so 11 x N queries total. A whole-state data set could be run by GC in a single query and downloaded by multiple people.

[BRTango]

In about 10 minutes time, I can generate a route up to 500 miles and pull up to 500 of the caches along it and get the PQ in my inbox. Another 5 minutes and I am out the door. I can repeat this 5 times a day!!! Why do I need more?

 

You don't need more. A lot of my day/weekend trips aren't nearly so carefully planned. I don't set out on a specific route. Instead, I pick a rough direction ("I think I'll go south west today") and head out. It'd be really convenient to download a complete file for the state onto my notebook right before I left. Later, when I get to an area that I want to cache in, a moments work loads the entire local area onto my GPSr.

 

Next month I'm taking a trip to visit relatives in Arizona. They do the random ramble thing too. I have no idea in advance where in the state we'll be going. I could build a set of one-off PQs to get the whole state. It'd be easier if I could just download a complete AZ listing a day or two before I go there. And if GC.com wants to charge me two or three bucks specifically for that download, I'm happy to pay it.

 

I'm seeing a lot of "I don't need it" answers, and that's fine. I haven't seen a "this is a bad idea because..." yet though. I see potential for revenue creation, as well as for reducing database load. Right now, if I want to get all caches in Illinois, that's 11 queries. I seriously doubt I'm the only one in the state who does this, so 11 x N queries total. A whole-state data set could be run by GC in a single query and downloaded by multiple people.

 

In general, I've been against this idea like most... I just didn't see the need for it. However, VeryLost makes a good point here. While it's been a really... really... long time since I've done the random rambling outside of my local area that VeryLost is describing, it is something I've always enjoyed doing. I used to do it every weekend. Friday night, pick a direction... start driving, spend the night in a cheap motel... see where I end up the next day. In this particular case, I'd be in support of the idea of seperately purchising a state by state PQ.

[+sbell111]

In about 10 minutes time, I can generate a route up to 500 miles and pull up to 500 of the caches along it and get the PQ in my inbox. Another 5 minutes and I am out the door. I can repeat this 5 times a day!!! Why do I need more?

You don't need more. A lot of my day/weekend trips aren't nearly so carefully planned. I don't set out on a specific route. Instead, I pick a rough direction ("I think I'll go south west today") and head out. It'd be really convenient to download a complete file for the state onto my notebook right before I left. Later, when I get to an area that I want to cache in, a moments work loads the entire local area onto my GPSr.

 

Next month I'm taking a trip to visit relatives in Arizona. They do the random ramble thing too. I have no idea in advance where in the state we'll be going. I could build a set of one-off PQs to get the whole state. It'd be easier if I could just download a complete AZ listing a day or two before I go there. And if GC.com wants to charge me two or three bucks specifically for that download, I'm happy to pay it.

 

I'm seeing a lot of "I don't need it" answers, and that's fine. I haven't seen a "this is a bad idea because..." yet though. I see potential for revenue creation, as well as for reducing database load. Right now, if I want to get all caches in Illinois, that's 11 queries. I seriously doubt I'm the only one in the state who does this, so 11 x N queries total. A whole-state data set could be run by GC in a single query and downloaded by multiple people.

In general, I've been against this idea like most... I just didn't see the need for it. However, VeryLost makes a good point here. While it's been a really... really... long time since I've done the random rambling outside of my local area that VeryLost is describing, it is something I've always enjoyed doing. I used to do it every weekend. Friday night, pick a direction... start driving, spend the night in a cheap motel... see where I end up the next day. In this particular case, I'd be in support of the idea of seperately purchising a state by state PQ.

I think the current PQ process supports wandering. For instance, let's say that I woke up on Saturday morning and decided to go to Chattanooga to geocache. Chattanooga is not within my normal stomping grounds so I'll need data.

 

It takes me about a minute to find a public route that I can use. I pick a route from Chattanooga to Murfreesboro. (Murfreesboro is within my normal PQ area). It takes another minute to build and submit a PQ for the route and yet another to build a PQ for the Chattanooga area.

 

Five minutes later, I have the GPX files in GSAK. I export the data as HTML and get Sunrise chewing on it. While that's running, I convert the data to POIs and squirt it to my GPSr. I eat exactly one cookie and sync my pda.

 

Less than twenty minutes from wild hair to jumping in the Jeep and I've got all the data that I need.

[BRTango]

I think the current PQ process supports wandering. For instance, let's say that I woke up on Saturday morning and decided to go to Chattanooga to geocache. Chattanooga is not within my normal stomping grounds so I'll need data.

 

It takes me about a minute to find a public route that I can use. I pick a route from Chattanooga to Murfreesboro. (Murfreesboro is within my normal PQ area). It takes another minute to build and submit a PQ for the route and yet another to build a PQ for the Chattanooga area.

 

Five minutes later, I have the GPX files in GSAK. I export the data as HTML and get Sunrise chewing on it. While that's running, I convert the data to POIs and squirt it to my GPSr. I eat exactly one cookie and sync my pda.

 

Less than twenty minutes from wild hair to jumping in the Jeep and I've got all the data that I need.

 

But... in this case you've already chosen Chatanooga as your destination. Many times I've hit the road without a destination in mind. If I were to head from Murfreesboro in the direction of Chatanooga (SE) I may easily enough run a PQ for the Chatanooga area. However, depending on how tired I am, traffic, etc... I could very easily end up in Atlanta by the time I crash for the night, and if it's a 3 day weekend may find myself in Savannah enjoying a nice iced tea by Saturday evening.

 

If I hit Chatanooga during a rush hour, I may divert onto a secondary road and head North, ending up in Knoxville... or even into the Carolinas.

 

Therefore, my PQ for Chatanooga will only do me some good during the brief transit through the area.

 

This by the way is not really a hypothetical... I've done this type of things many times. When I lived in Germany I hit the road for a three day weekend. No destination in mind, just a direction... North. I ended up in Aalborg, Denmark. Another trip I ended up in Trier, Germany and on another trip ended up in Carrerra, Italy. I never planned on visiting these locations... only chose a direction.

 

In the states I often did this (Clarksville, TN as my starting point). One time I ended up in Murfreesboro and spent the entire weekend there. The next trip I was Knoxville, IN... the one after that Paris Landing... the one after that Carbondale, IL.

 

So the point being... random wandering is just that... random. No destination in mind for which to run a PQ.

[+Stunod]

In about 10 minutes time, I can generate a route up to 500 miles and pull up to 500 of the caches along it and get the PQ in my inbox. Another 5 minutes and I am out the door. I can repeat this 5 times a day!!! Why do I need more?

You don't need more. A lot of my day/weekend trips aren't nearly so carefully planned. I don't set out on a specific route. Instead, I pick a rough direction ("I think I'll go south west today") and head out. It'd be really convenient to download a complete file for the state onto my notebook right before I left. Later, when I get to an area that I want to cache in, a moments work loads the entire local area onto my GPSr.

 

Next month I'm taking a trip to visit relatives in Arizona. They do the random ramble thing too. I have no idea in advance where in the state we'll be going. I could build a set of one-off PQs to get the whole state. It'd be easier if I could just download a complete AZ listing a day or two before I go there. And if GC.com wants to charge me two or three bucks specifically for that download, I'm happy to pay it.

 

I'm seeing a lot of "I don't need it" answers, and that's fine. I haven't seen a "this is a bad idea because..." yet though. I see potential for revenue creation, as well as for reducing database load. Right now, if I want to get all caches in Illinois, that's 11 queries. I seriously doubt I'm the only one in the state who does this, so 11 x N queries total. A whole-state data set could be run by GC in a single query and downloaded by multiple people.

In general, I've been against this idea like most... I just didn't see the need for it. However, VeryLost makes a good point here. While it's been a really... really... long time since I've done the random rambling outside of my local area that VeryLost is describing, it is something I've always enjoyed doing. I used to do it every weekend. Friday night, pick a direction... start driving, spend the night in a cheap motel... see where I end up the next day. In this particular case, I'd be in support of the idea of seperately purchising a state by state PQ.

I think the current PQ process supports wandering. For instance, let's say that I woke up on Saturday morning and decided to go to Chattanooga to geocache. Chattanooga is not within my normal stomping grounds so I'll need data.

 

It takes me about a minute to find a public route that I can use. I pick a route from Chattanooga to Murfreesboro. (Murfreesboro is within my normal PQ area). It takes another minute to build and submit a PQ for the route and yet another to build a PQ for the Chattanooga area.

 

Five minutes later, I have the GPX files in GSAK. I export the data as HTML and get Sunrise chewing on it. While that's running, I convert the data to POIs and squirt it to my GPSr. I eat exactly one cookie and sync my pda.

 

Less than twenty minutes from wild hair to jumping in the Jeep and I've got all the data that I need.

 

As I posted earlier, I wouldn't want caches along a predetermined route...we already have the ability to do that. It would be nice to plan a route based on caches/cache density...and a large area PQ could help do that. I don't know how often I would use it if available, but making it an additional charge would make sense.

[+sbell111]

I guess for the truly random people, the best scenario is to buy multiple memberships and create large regional databases. Thankfully, I'm not that random.

[BRTango]

I guess for the truly random people, the best scenario is to buy multiple memberships and create large regional databases. Thankfully, I'm not that random.

 

I have no desire to maintain a large regional database... nor purchase multiple memberships. A single purchase of a large database that I can use for a short period would be great, and wouldn't have to worry about maintaing anything but my interest.

 

For that matter... I have no desire to maintain a small local database. I simply download a new PQ for my local area before heading out. I see no reason to maintain any database as GC.com does that for us. So for those of us who are truly random... this purchase idea would likely be the best scenario (if it were to be made available).

 

I, unfortunately, am no longer that random. I've come across the most interesting people and places while being that random. Life has gotten in the way and made my travels more deliberate at the moment. But in the next few years as my son gets older and easier to travel with... that will again hopefully change. Who knows, by then this may be an option.

Edited April 10, 2007 by BRTango

[+StarBrand]

I think the current PQ process supports wandering. For instance, let's say that I woke up on Saturday morning and decided to go to Chattanooga to geocache. Chattanooga is not within my normal stomping grounds so I'll need data.

 

It takes me about a minute to find a public route that I can use. I pick a route from Chattanooga to Murfreesboro. (Murfreesboro is within my normal PQ area). It takes another minute to build and submit a PQ for the route and yet another to build a PQ for the Chattanooga area.

 

Five minutes later, I have the GPX files in GSAK. I export the data as HTML and get Sunrise chewing on it. While that's running, I convert the data to POIs and squirt it to my GPSr. I eat exactly one cookie and sync my pda.

 

Less than twenty minutes from wild hair to jumping in the Jeep and I've got all the data that I need.

 

But... in this case you've already chosen Chatanooga as your destination. Many times I've hit the road without a destination in mind. If I were to head from Murfreesboro in the direction of Chatanooga (SE) I may easily enough run a PQ for the Chatanooga area. However, depending on how tired I am, traffic, etc... I could very easily end up in Atlanta by the time I crash for the night, and if it's a 3 day weekend may find myself in Savannah enjoying a nice iced tea by Saturday evening.

 

If I hit Chatanooga during a rush hour, I may divert onto a secondary road and head North, ending up in Knoxville... or even into the Carolinas.

 

Therefore, my PQ for Chatanooga will only do me some good during the brief transit through the area.

 

This by the way is not really a hypothetical... I've done this type of things many times. When I lived in Germany I hit the road for a three day weekend. No destination in mind, just a direction... North. I ended up in Aalborg, Denmark. Another trip I ended up in Trier, Germany and on another trip ended up in Carrerra, Italy. I never planned on visiting these locations... only chose a direction.

 

In the states I often did this (Clarksville, TN as my starting point). One time I ended up in Murfreesboro and spent the entire weekend there. The next trip I was Knoxville, IN... the one after that Paris Landing... the one after that Carbondale, IL.

 

So the point being... random wandering is just that... random. No destination in mind for which to run a PQ.

 

I know I am assuming some kind of universal Internet access but it remains a fact that with a minimal amount of equipment I CAN get internet access across most of the country.

 

As I stated - under the current system you can change your direction of travel up to 5 times per day and get all the data you need for the new random direction in just a few minutes. Buy a second membership and you can do that 10 times per day. If you are just really wildly random - buy a 3rd and you can flip flop around 15 times during each day. Point being - if you use the available tools to the fullest extent - you can do exactly what you would like to do. No need to create and update extra fee full data sets for arbitrary areas you like to call a state.

[+Markwell]

But... in this case you've already chosen Chatanooga as your destination. Many times I've hit the road without a destination in mind.

((snipped))

So the point being... random wandering is just that... random. No destination in mind for which to run a PQ.

I'm almost convinced I like this idea.

 

BUT...

 

Illinois has 5000 active caches today (yea! 5000!). I'd need 10 PQs to grab ALL the caches.

 

However, I'm probably not going to find all 5,000 in Illinois. Some I've already found, some I own. Also, if I did a wanderlust type of caching there's probably some criteria that *I* would put in place. For me, if I'm just heading out the door and wandering for a couple of hours to find "geodashing" points, the types of caches I'd like would be...

 

I don't own (I should know where they are)

I haven't found (looking for new ones)

Active Cache (Don't need disabled)

Type: Traditional (I would want the coords to point to the box)

Size: Regular or Large (my personal preference)

Terrain/Difficulty ≠ 1/1 - so maybe set the minimum threshhold for both at 2.

 

Now, if I look at just Illinois under THOSE criteria, the results give me 486 caches. Huh. That's one PQ. Same criteria but grabbing micros instead of Regular or Large - 203. Less than HALF of a PQ.

 

Choose your criteria wisely and you should still be able to get what you're looking for - in fact, you'll get a BETTER picture of what you're looking for before you go out. You won't have to spend as much time tweaking everything in GSAK or some other software.

Edited April 10, 2007 by Markwell

[+sbell111]

I think the current PQ process supports wandering. For instance, let's say that I woke up on Saturday morning and decided to go to Chattanooga to geocache. Chattanooga is not within my normal stomping grounds so I'll need data.

 

It takes me about a minute to find a public route that I can use. I pick a route from Chattanooga to Murfreesboro. (Murfreesboro is within my normal PQ area). It takes another minute to build and submit a PQ for the route and yet another to build a PQ for the Chattanooga area.

 

Five minutes later, I have the GPX files in GSAK. I export the data as HTML and get Sunrise chewing on it. While that's running, I convert the data to POIs and squirt it to my GPSr. I eat exactly one cookie and sync my pda.

 

Less than twenty minutes from wild hair to jumping in the Jeep and I've got all the data that I need.

But... in this case you've already chosen Chatanooga as your destination. Many times I've hit the road without a destination in mind. If I were to head from Murfreesboro in the direction of Chatanooga (SE) I may easily enough run a PQ for the Chatanooga area. However, depending on how tired I am, traffic, etc... I could very easily end up in Atlanta by the time I crash for the night, and if it's a 3 day weekend may find myself in Savannah enjoying a nice iced tea by Saturday evening.

 

If I hit Chatanooga during a rush hour, I may divert onto a secondary road and head North, ending up in Knoxville... or even into the Carolinas.

 

Therefore, my PQ for Chatanooga will only do me some good during the brief transit through the area.

 

This by the way is not really a hypothetical... I've done this type of things many times. When I lived in Germany I hit the road for a three day weekend. No destination in mind, just a direction... North. I ended up in Aalborg, Denmark. Another trip I ended up in Trier, Germany and on another trip ended up in Carrerra, Italy. I never planned on visiting these locations... only chose a direction.

 

In the states I often did this (Clarksville, TN as my starting point). One time I ended up in Murfreesboro and spent the entire weekend there. The next trip I was Knoxville, IN... the one after that Paris Landing... the one after that Carbondale, IL.

 

So the point being... random wandering is just that... random. No destination in mind for which to run a PQ.

I know I am assuming some kind of universal Internet access but it remains a fact that with a minimal amount of equipment I CAN get internet access across most of the country.

 

As I stated - under the current system you can change your direction of travel up to 5 times per day and get all the data you need for the new random direction in just a few minutes. Buy a second membership and you can do that 10 times per day. If you are just really wildly random - buy a 3rd and you can flip flop around 15 times during each day. Point being - if you use the available tools to the fullest extent - you can do exactly what you would like to do. No need to create and update extra fee full data sets for arbitrary areas you like to call a state.

Plus, I don't see TPTB ever offering this option. They've been pretty clear on what they believe is appropriate use and getting a stateload of data isn't it. Edited April 10, 2007 by sbell111

[+mtn-man]

Charge 1 cent per cache. Do the math as needed.

Small states, pocket money for pocket query. California, get a second mortgage.

 

When you think about it, $3.00 a month really is cheap considering you can pull 75,000 caches on average per month. That is $0.00004 per cache.

[+Renegade Knight]

...I got to wondering if it might be worthwhile for GC.com to offer complete state GPX file downloads for a small fee. It would be some easy revenue for GC, and would likely reduce PQ server load since it could be run once daily for each state/province/etc instead of running multiple PQs by multiple people at arbitrary times....

 

First, I'm probably going to mutulate certain well known terms, or invent my own to describe things.

 

However jumping right in. I don't think this is such an unreasonable reqeust. Perhaps not in the form you are thinking about though.

 

It would not be hard to write a caching API (aka an interface) that runs on your computer and which interfaces with the GC.com database. That API would poll the GC.com servers on caches and only update those which have changed. Once you did your initial download everthing after that's just an update. I'm not sure it would create more or less demand though I think the potential is there for less demand on the servers. GC.com could throttle it to be 500 queries per 'session' and limit the sessions to the same number as you can have PQ's. The API could export the GPX files itself.

 

There is more to this general idea as I've been pondering this idea since the opencaching project came along.

[+VeryLost]

I think the current PQ process supports wandering. For instance, let's say that I woke up on Saturday morning and decided to go to Chattanooga to geocache. Chattanooga is not within my normal stomping grounds so I'll need data. It takes me about a minute to find a public route that I can use.

 

It's not 'wandering' if you select a destination and route before setting out.

[+VeryLost]

It would not be hard to write a caching API (aka an interface) that runs on your computer and which interfaces with the GC.com database. That API would poll the GC.com servers on caches and only update those which have changed. Once you did your initial download everthing after that's just an update. [...]

 

That's an intriguing notion. I've worked with similar kinds of web APIs for grabbing fleet GPS data using WSDL, SOAP and XML, but only in simple form and from the user side. I have no idea what it would require to set up on the server side. I bet there'd be a small explosion of utilities to take advantage of it, though.

[+Renegade Knight]

You should be able to build such an API/Interface to automate doing the PQ's that it would take to get the entire state.

[+FamilyDNA]

I just wanted to mention that there is a way to wander anywhere you want and have cache info for where you end up. You can do this with your cell phone and the geocache navigator. No internet needed, but you do need cell reception. (And the right carrier and phone.)

[+mtn-man]

I think the current PQ process supports wandering. For instance, let's say that I woke up on Saturday morning and decided to go to Chattanooga to geocache. Chattanooga is not within my normal stomping grounds so I'll need data. It takes me about a minute to find a public route that I can use.

 

It's not 'wandering' if you select a destination and route before setting out.

Yeah, but state data would not help in that case either, if you are truly wandering.

 

I can see his point though. My recent trip to San Fran and San Jose is an example. It was an emergency trip. I pulled two quick PQ's. One was a route from the SFO airport to Palo Alto at 5 miles wide. The second was 500 caches centered on my hotel. Both got traditionals and virts less than 3/3. I was there for 24 hours from touchdown to takeoff again and I found 21 caches while working and sleeping for 5 hours. I had plenty to choose from and it took me about 20 minutes to prep for the trip.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

... <snip>The replies as to why a user wouldn't use the feature are not really important. ... ,snip>

The title of this thread is "All caches in a state, How much would you pay?"

 

So for someone to say that the replies as to "why a user wouldn't use the feature are not really important" is really insulting.

 

The OP asked for comments. Users posting that they wouldn't pay anything and their reasons why, certainly is important.

 

No one has to agree with what people reply, but it's still important.

Edited April 10, 2007 by Motorcycle_Mama

[+VeryLost]

It's not 'wandering' if you select a destination and route before setting out.

 

Yeah, but state data would not help in that case either, if you are truly wandering.

 

Arguable. It seems a reasonable geographic limit to me. Especially if I'm wandering with a goal of working on one of the state challenges, or I know I'll be in a certain state but not necessarily where I'll be in that state - this happens on a lot of my vacations. I don't like a lot of rigid structure in my relaxing.

 

One was a route from the SFO airport to Palo Alto at 5 miles wide. The second was 500 caches centered on my hotel. Both got traditionals and virts less than 3/3. I was there for 24 hours from touchdown to takeoff again and I found 21 caches while working and sleeping for 5 hours. I had plenty to choose from and it took me about 20 minutes to prep for the trip.

 

Again, though, you knew where you would be, and what routes you would be taking. When I know that information, I do the exact same thing you did - targeted PQs.

[+alexrudd]

States are pretty arbitrary boundary lines.

 

How about for $1 you can up your PQ to 5,000 results?

[+Markwell]

You can already do that for $3, right?

[+Markwell]

Again, though, you knew where you would be, and what routes you would be taking. When I know that information, I do the exact same thing you did - targeted PQs.

 

Another example:

I plugged one query for Active, Unfound, Not Mine, Traditional Caches, minimum 2.0 on T and D and set the distance to 200 miles from our zip code and limited it to Large and Regular sizes, and got 486 caches. Same distance and criteria, but get Micro and Small - results=393. Then I got all of the other types and sizes and it was 324. With those three queries, you can get 1,203 to choose from, covering every part of Illinois down to a circling edge around Quincy, Greenville, Olney and Vincennes.

 

Now there are are tons more caches of all sizes 1.5 or 1.0 Difficulty or Terrain. So, limit it to the style of caching you want. From there massage it until you get a good sampling of caches that you might want to find. So you don't have them all. Is that the end of the world?

 

The other way to do it is to take your down-time when you're not just wandering and scan the Google Earth interface or PQs in general and bookmark caches as ones you'd like to do. Have a list "possible targets for DeLorme" or "possible targets for All County". Fill up the lists with caches that suit your criteria and the style of hiding you like.

 

Then when you get the urge to wander run a PQ on your Bookmark List and head out the door. You'll have a ready-to-download list of caches in the state (or out of state) that you've researched and would enjoy hitting ready to go, without taxing the system with heavy load PQs and without using stale data from an old PQ.

 

In the end, I don't see GC.com jumping at the idea of all-state standard queries. That feature request has been around almost as long as PQs have been, and they still haven't implemented it. I'm not saying it's a terrible idea. I think it does have merits (remember - I'm almost convinced). But don't take our work-arounds as always being "nay-sayers" or people who want to keep the status-quo. Some of us are trying to show you ways that you can work within the system that currently exists so that you can still accomplish your goals.

[+dirtisgood]

Some can get a query of every unfound cache in the state that they want with 1 PQ. If you're fairly new, it will take 15.

 

The biggest thing to remember is the load on the database and email server. 15 or 16 PQs to get a full database by dates is a LOT more of a load on both of the above than a full state query run once (on the database server, then stored for the day/week and emailed to all requesting it. Run it on Thursday night, so all those requesting it have it by Friday and the weekend hunts. The overhead of the email server is lower, and the database server is not thrashed with PQs all week long by hundreds of people (do the math, that's thousands of database queries instead of one per state)

 

Remember that the query is looking first for the state, (at this point in a state query, it is done.) then it looks for those caches meeting the date criteria. It does this multiple times per day, per person, each with slightly different dates it seems. Seems to me that a state query would save server time and money. A win-win situation.

 

BTW, searching for Reg & Large, 4 or less T&D, traditional, unfound, active, etc, gives me 498 in a radius of only 32 miles. What if I want to go into the mountains? A PQ for each mountain range? Then we're just as well getting the whole 16PQ list for the state.

Edited April 11, 2007 by dirtisgood

[+mtn-man]

OK, think realistically.

 

Say you pay a penny per cache and get all caches for your state. Say you get a return of 5,000 caches. Say you want this so you can "wander". Your GPS only holds 1,000 caches.

 

If you get a 5,000 cache query, how are you going to get that in your GPS and "wander"?

Don't you have to sort of know where you are going so you can narrow this down to get it into the GPS?

Isn't this what the system does right now?

 

The request to pay "whatever" for an all caches query isn't so you can "wander". It is for an off site database. Then it is going to want to be run all the time, so you can have all the logs. That exist right now. It is called http://www.geocaching.com isn't it?

[+Renegade Knight]

OK, think realistically....

 

Lets stop there. Realistily I don't want to mess with anything more than planning my cache trip. Once done I want to grab my GPS, PDA and go. What I don't want to do is have to go get targeted Pocket Queries, futz wiht the radius and number of caches and tweak it so there is no gap. I just want to have what I need ready at all times for any trip I'm likely to plan.

 

That's simple from a user standpoint. In my area a state query would not work. I tend to focus in Idaho but I'm close to Utah, Wyoming, Montana, and Nevada. All are potential for a cache day. For me a 300 mile all caches radius would work better. Equipment becomes a limiting factor.

 

But you catch the idea. Less work. More fun, but based only on how I go about caching. YMMV.

Edited April 11, 2007 by Renegade Knight

[BRTango]

OK, think realistically.

 

Say you pay a penny per cache and get all caches for your state. Say you get a return of 5,000 caches. Say you want this so you can "wander". Your GPS only holds 1,000 caches.

 

If you get a 5,000 cache query, how are you going to get that in your GPS and "wander"?

Don't you have to sort of know where you are going so you can narrow this down to get it into the GPS?

Isn't this what the system does right now?

 

The request to pay "whatever" for an all caches query isn't so you can "wander". It is for an off site database. Then it is going to want to be run all the time, so you can have all the logs. That exist right now. It is called http://www.geocaching.com isn't it?

 

I may be in the minority, but I don't maintain an off site database. It really is just too much trouble for the amount of caching I get to do. Which is also why I have no desire to purchase additional premium memberships.

 

I would use something like this for a one time use PQ. Then if I wanted it again for a later trip, I'd pay again.

 

To address the first question... I do have a PDA and I do have a laptop. Even though the GPS only holds 1,000 caches, I can still hold the entire PQ in my PDA and Laptop. I can then push them to the GPSr as needed without having to have spent an inordinate amount of time building a database, or searching for an area with a wi-fi I can access.

[+mtn-man]

To address the first question... I do have a PDA and I do have a laptop. Even though the GPS only holds 1,000 caches, I can still hold the entire PQ in my PDA and Laptop. I can then push them to the GPSr as needed without having to have spent an inordinate amount of time building a database, or searching for an area with a wi-fi I can access.

I'll give credit where credit is due. That's a good answer, if you carry your laptop and have GSAK to cut the query down I guess?

Edited April 11, 2007 by mtn-man

[+sbell111]

While I disagree with the option to get 'state queries' for a number of reasons, it is only fair to mention that Garmin's CX units don't have a limit on the number of caches that you can load, if you load them as POIs.

[+The Leprechauns]

To address the first question... I do have a PDA and I do have a laptop. Even though the GPS only holds 1,000 caches, I can still hold the entire PQ in my PDA and Laptop. I can then push them to the GPSr as needed without having to have spent an inordinate amount of time building a database, or searching for an area with a wi-fi I can access.

I'll give credit where credit is due. That's a good answer, if you carry your laptop and have GSAK to cut the query down I guess?

I've been caching for a year with a laptop, as a solution to my frustration with PDA's and buggy software. I carry my database with me, and when I am "wandering," I simply squirt a new batch of waypoints onto the GPS and my real-time mapping software each time I get out of range of the last batch. Last month, I took a five-day geovacation on two days' notice and cached all over the state with no real preconceived plan. It was liberating. I did all this with less than ten pocket queries, including one that I had forgotten about and ordered 30 minutes before departing. It arrived in my e-mail 5 minutes later.

 

I live on the very western edge of Pennsylvania in one of those "tri-state regions." I can be in West Virginia or Ohio in about a half an hour, and I can be in Maryland in an hour and a half. Yet I've never found caches in Scranton, Easton, Allentown or Bethlehem, which are all fine caching areas on the extreme opposite corner of Pennsylvania. A full state query would be of little use to me. My normal database covers a 100-mile radius from home, which is good for the vast majority of spur of the moment caching. When I wander past that, I can get up to 2500 more caches on a same-day basis. That's always been good enough. I can never seem to find all 2500 on one trip!

Edited April 11, 2007 by The Leprechauns

[+Jhwk]

I bet if you asked TPTB on a personal level, they would take the time to help you out. But if you came back and did it every week, the 'help' would quickly end.

 

When I travel [frequently] I just lob zip code centers at the PQ and get 5-10 files for the hotel and surrounding area. I work, so the wanderlust is kept pretty low. Although I do love hitting goto, next closest cache, and seeing what comes of it...

[+Miragee]

I may be in the minority, but I don't maintain an off site database. It really is just too much trouble for the amount of caching I get to do. Which is also why I have no desire to purchase additional premium memberships.

 

I would use something like this for a one time use PQ. Then if I wanted it again for a later trip, I'd pay again.

 

<snip>

If you "use something like this for a one-time use PQ," unless you hit the road right then, and make a very quick trip, you are going to have a lot of stale data, which means you might occasionally be searching for caches that have been Disabled or Archived since you received your PQ.

 

Because you have a laptop, and a PDA, keeping an up-to-date (or reasonably so) database is not that difficult for the areas you are likely to travel to.

 

When I made trips to Colorado, I was surprised where I found WiFi access -- little coffee shops and even a second-hand store. I also found WiFi access at many motels and libraries. I frequently updated the PQs for the areas I was headed towards, filtered the caches, sent new waypoints to my GPSr, and Exported data for my Palm.

 

I needed to take a break from the road anyway, and this didn't take much time. I don't think I ever ended up searching for a cache that turned out to be Archived or Disabled when I went to log an unsuccessful search . . . which has happened before when I had stale data . . .

[+VeryLost]

don't take our work-arounds as always being "nay-sayers" or people who want to keep the status-quo. Some of us are trying to show you ways that you can work within the system that currently exists so that you can still accomplish your goals.

 

I understand that, really. And I know there are any number of ways to get the data I want, and once someone told me the query by placed date trick, getting a whole states worth of information was not difficult, just a bit tedious.

 

My motivation in this discussion was three-fold... add a level of convenience for users like me, combined with a new revenue source for GC and a potential reduction in query server load.

[+VeryLost]

Say you get a return of 5,000 caches. Say you want this so you can "wander". Your GPS only holds 1,000 caches. If you get a 5,000 cache query, how are you going to get that in your GPS and "wander"?

 

I've got me one of them there fancy newfangled things, you may have heard of them... a notebook computer.

 

The request to pay "whatever" for an all caches query isn't so you can "wander". It is for an off site database.

 

I assure you, I'm ideally suited to know why I'm interested in such a feature, and it is absolutely, without question, so that I can wander, on short notice, with up-to-date information.

 

Any collection of waypoints I have stored locally is by definition an off-site database. I can already build a complete off-site database for any state or area that I want. The difference is that the way I do it now:

 

1) is tedious, though not difficult, to set up

2) requires several days for the queries to run

3) isn't readily updated on the spur of the moment

4) places a significant load on the query server

Edited April 11, 2007 by VeryLost

[+VeryLost]

it is only fair to mention that Garmin's CX units don't have a limit on the number of caches that you can load, if you load them as POIs.

 

I really need to look into that feature again. The one time I tried messing with it I ran into errors (can't recall details, but perhaps something with too-long strings?). Given the helpfulness of the GC and GSAK communities, I'm certain there's already a handy solution, just waiting for me to do a quick search.

 

I'm too easily distracted

[BRTango]

I may be in the minority, but I don't maintain an off site database. It really is just too much trouble for the amount of caching I get to do. Which is also why I have no desire to purchase additional premium memberships.

 

I would use something like this for a one time use PQ. Then if I wanted it again for a later trip, I'd pay again.

 

<snip>

If you "use something like this for a one-time use PQ," unless you hit the road right then, and make a very quick trip, you are going to have a lot of stale data, which means you might occasionally be searching for caches that have been Disabled or Archived since you received your PQ.

 

<snip>

 

That's my point exactly... I'd get the state wide PQ and hit the road. Use it that one time. If I were to make a similar trip, say a month later, I'd order a new one. That way I don't have to spend the time running PQs... not because they can't get the job done... just saying that if this were an option, it'd be easier (for me).

 

When I made trips to Colorado, I was surprised where I found WiFi access -- little coffee shops and even a second-hand store. I also found WiFi access at many motels and libraries. I frequently updated the PQs for the areas I was headed towards, filtered the caches, sent new waypoints to my GPSr, and Exported data for my Palm.

 

I know you can find WiFi access is many, many places... there are also hotels, libraries, etc... however, I often stay at KOAs and other camping areas when my wanderlust strikes. Most of these areas don't have WiFi... at least they didn't the last time I was able to wander.

 

And again... not saying I can't go out and make a stop at a coffee shop/library/or any other place and pick up a WiFi to use... .just saying if there is an easier option, I'd pay a small fee for it.

Edited April 11, 2007 by BRTango

[+mtn-man]

That gets me back to the topic title again "how much would you pay".

 

I do think it should be based on a per cache basis if it was done. I am still thinking like a penny a cache. That would discourage running this two or three times a month. I also think the number of people that would do this is small (talking about the "wandering" types, not those that are updating an offline database with this request), so is the need actually there.

Edited April 11, 2007 by mtn-man