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Welfare caches


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This topic has been brought up many times in the past. The sad thing is that the problem is as large today as it was 6 years ago.

 

You start a cache with good swag that quickly degrades to junk within a month. Why can't people trade up or trade even? :)

 

Maybe we should start caches with junk. That way they have no where to go but up. :unsure:

 

Most caches today qualify for CITO. They are nothing but boxes of trash in the woods. :D

 

El Diablo

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I did one some time ago that was quite literally a welfare cache. It started life with nothing but a logbook, a pen and a request for swag. By the time I got to it several months later, it was filled with mostly decent stuff. When I do maintenance on my caches, roughly twice a year unless there is a reported problem, I always bring new swag. I find that, of the original contents, roughly 10% has disappeared without a trace, 10% gets traded for McCrap and 10% gets traded up or even. 70% of my original contents will still be there.

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My first FTF was on the top of a local peak. It was an ammo can stuff ed with good swag. I visited that cache again a little over a year later, and the ammo can was nearly empty and what was in it was worthless. :unsure:

 

It was sad to see what had happened to the contents . . .

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The most remarkable trade I've seen in the logs recently: "Took handheld electronic game, left shotgun shell." :unsure:

 

I removed the shotgun shell as a prohibited item, so effectively the finder before me simply took an electronic game.

 

As a cache owner, I like my new caches to be filled to the brim with goodies. It takes more goodies to fill an ammo box than it does to fill a one-pint lock 'n lock. I think that growing tired of stocking trade items is one factor that's influencing me to hide smaller-sized caches.

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I made up my first cache before I came back over here off R&R.I themed it as a fisherman's cache.I had dreams of folks trading fishing and fishing themed swag in it,kind of like a remote fishing tackle suppy box.I had started if off with some plastic worms,and some of my hand tied flies that I know work awsome on the river that it's only feet away from.Reading the logs and what folks had left in there tell a different story however.

 

It's more my fault however,as I didn't specify what specificaly to leave in the cache.Lesson learned.You can bet the cache page will be edited and the cache and restocked when I return.

 

I try my best to leave good stuff in caches,but mostly I'm more of a TNLN type of cacher,unless there's a unique or high value item(To me,not moneywise..like one cache here had a "sapper" tab in it that really wanted.It's a patch for Army engineers) in the cache.Then I'll try to leave a good item in it's place.I plan to buy more pre war Iraqi dinar for leaving in caches too.I try not to be one the "elitist" cachers,but when it comes to swag,the McCrap needs to McLeave the game,unless it's a kids cache.

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Why can't people trade up or trade even?

 

Your character is defined by how you behave when noone else is around to see. Unfortunately, this tells us a lot about the character of certain people. Some people only care about themselves.. Welcome to Earth.

I agree with that. But there is a minority of cases also you don't mention. Some people would like to play the geocaching game, but don't have the money to buy swag. Though they trade for stuff they think people might like, they really shouldn't trade at all.

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Poor swag trading is one of my biggest complaints about my caches. It is so dissapointing that folks think the things they trade for our even. :unsure:

 

This new cache is a giant ammo can with brand new fleece jackets, geocoins, and other outdoor items: Purdue Practicum Cache Hopefully it will stay stocked with even trades. I bring a few nice items for trading something nice, but most caches we get to have already been traded down. :)

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Ive been working on a few theme caches, and have come to realize after reading these forums that the theme might not last long, and the dreams of the cache hider will quickly fade when the good swag dissappears. With a theme cache, there is an expectation that like-minded geocachers will be carrying something that suits the theme--which might be rare, so instead of TNSL, they'll gladly take some of your nice swag, since you were so kind to leave it. I'm ok with that now that I know it to be the norm, so my theme caches might not get as good of swag as I initially planned, and some of that good swag might be better passed off in caches as equal trade for other's good swag.

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I'm really new to geocaching (a week and 3 days), but have to say that out of 11 caches I've found, only 1 had anything near decent in it. And since I have no swag, while I wanted something in there I did not take it. I figure if there's something I want that bad, then I need to come back later with an equal or better trade item. So far all I've done is TNLNSL. And from what I've seen, I doubt I'll ever do much more than that. It is disappointing. The one cache where there was half decent stuff was in memory of a deceased woman, and it brought a tear to my eye after seeing such junked up ones, to see this one in memory was still in decent shape. I hope it remains that way, but I don't hold out much hope. The cache was only 5 months old with a relatively quiet log for the last 4 months.

 

While I think it's great there are children's items in a lot of these caches, the fact is we aren't all schlepping around the woods with kids in tow. I'm an adult and take no children with me. I would love to see adult themed caches, and I'm not talking the x rated kind folks! Or a dog-themed cache. Even though I don't own a dog, I would probably still search it out just to sign the log and check out the contents. And I have friends with dogs so I would possibly even trade if I knew in advance what the theme was. I agree that the Mctoys need to go away. It is sad to see a marble, or a bone from some dead animal, or a rock from the river 5 feet away, left in the cache.

 

Maybe I have no right even making a comment with my newbie status, but this has been bugging me a little. Fortunately I'm really in it for the exercise and exposure to all the hiking areas near me I never knew existed. But finding the one good cache opened my eyes to the real possibilities of this game. And I got real excited when I opened that one and went through it with care. It was a true pleasure to find it and be a part of it. The rest kind of leave you with a feeling of, "Great hike, great outdoor exposure, but WTH".

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That was a huge complaint when I started over a year ago. I went to a bunch of caches and there was nothing but garbage in them. I usally try to trade out the garbage items and put in better items in the cahce to try to make the next person caching experience a good one. One of the caches I placed has alot of good swag in it. Everything was brand new still wrapped up. So far the cache is still in good shape and still has good stuff in it. I decided after I found a cache called "QUALITY CACHE" which was far from quality I would always restock my cache and pull out the garbage and throw it away.

 

TRADE UP OR TRADE EVEN!

 

Storm180

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Ive been working on a few theme caches, and have come to realize after reading these forums that the theme might not last long, and the dreams of the cache hider will quickly fade when the good swag dissappears. With a theme cache, there is an expectation that like-minded geocachers will be carrying something that suits the theme.

 

I visited my first theme cache yesterday and was excited to check it out. It was called Flix and was to contain DVD's. The cache owner specified in his description that it is for DVD movies, however allot of cachers that visited this cache were upset that they didn't know it was a theme cache and did not bring along DVD to trade. I always read the cache description and thought this a little odd. My only disappointment was the container was filled with workout DVD's and only one movie. Not that I am harping on Yoga and Pilates, to each his own, but this cache was meant for DVD movies. I went ahead and traded for the one movie I never heard of despite my let down.

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We've placed a few caches that started out with what i consider good swag. At first it was downright dissappointing to come back and see how bad the cache contents had degraded. Most people just want to take, i'm guessing that it somehow goes along with the notion that they are entitled. :unsure: We've figured out by now not to even think about what people do in their trading. I would say that it would be best for a person not to even hide caches with good stuff in them if this bothers them, since unfortunately, it's something we have no control over! :)

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That was a huge complaint when I started over a year ago. I went to a bunch of caches and there was nothing but garbage in them.

 

I have only been geocaching for a month now and have noticed the same thing. When I first started it was very exciting to make a find and open the container to reveal very cool swag. Lately I have been afraid to open it because my son and I have been disappointed. I have been teaching him that it is not always about the treasure, but the adventure of getting there. However, it is really disapointing to see all of the garbage that people do leave behind. I think that is the main reason why I get so much flack from family and friends for geocaching. Everybody wants to know what I find and when I tell them water damaged pogs and used McToys, they think I am foolish.

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We work for Crayola and place items we purchase at the company store in caches.

We were able to acquire a limited edition 96ct. crayon box made of plastic, instead of the usual cardboard . Thought we'd put it in a "special" cache we found in NJ. It was $7. our cost... Next finder swapped it for a "Go Army" lanyard she got free in the mail.

We just finished maintenance on a string of caches we have on a little trail. ALL had good swag. We found most uncovered, full of water (folks who hunt in rain with no umbrella to cover) and all but one was missing the good stuff. Most were empty or had parts of dollar store (think one dino, out of a $1. bag of dinosaurs) items. Two had broken Mctoys in it.

We're still going to place good stuff in caches we find (Seems like WHATEVER we put in tops what's there), but we're still not sure we want to keep "restocking" our own hides.

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French

 

Your opinion does matter, to me! I can only concur with you about the state of swag in caches, and I have been at this game only three months. The best swag I have seen was in a remote PM cache. It did make me think about my future caches.

 

LeonW :unsure:

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We just finished maintenance on a string of caches we have on a little trail. ALL had good swag. We found most uncovered, full of water (folks who hunt in rain with no umbrella to cover) and all but one was missing the good stuff. Most were empty or had parts of dollar store (think one dino, out of a $1. bag of dinosaurs) items. Two had broken Mctoys in it.

We're still going to place good stuff in caches we find (Seems like WHATEVER we put in tops what's there), but we're still not sure we want to keep "restocking" our own hides.

 

 

 

Wow! You guys are scaring me from wanting to plant my first cache. I told myself when I reached 25 finds I would hide my first cache. Now I am wondering if I want the hassle of maintaning it with all of the junk and theft that is left behind. I do have some great ideas and special places for people to visit though. I must think positive and continue to move forward with this adventure despite a couple of bad seeds out there. :unsure:

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The most remarkable trade I've seen in the logs recently: "Took handheld electronic game, left shotgun shell." :unsure:

 

 

One of my favorites at a cache of mine was when someone took a new custom made Wheresgeorge stamp ($11) and a new waterproof Otter type box ($9) and left a travel bug. It wasn't a newbie either.

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What gets me is when people leave money for swag, especially if it's part of the original swag, because then I KNOW they're trading down and by how much. Besides, who wants money? You can get that stuff anywhere.

I just bought some stamps at the machine in the Post Office cause I though the $1 coins it give in change makes grate swag. I guess I'll just hang on to these now. :unsure:

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I accept cache degradation as part of the game. It's the people who leave my caches out in the open so that the whole cache might disappear who bug me.

One exception, though, is my son's cache. It's a theme cache, and I specifically asked on the cache page to please trade fairly, cache belongs to an 8 year old boy.

Went to check it last week, and it's half full. The people who logged their trades traded nicely, it was someone who didn't write what they took.

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What gets me is when people leave money for swag, especially if it's part of the original swag, because then I KNOW they're trading down and by how much. Besides, who wants money? You can get that stuff anywhere.

I just bought some stamps at the machine in the Post Office cause I though the $1 coins it give in change makes grate swag. I guess I'll just hang on to these now. :unsure:

 

 

 

 

I have left foriegn coins from my personal collection behind as swag. Maybe it's because I collect coins, but I think that a child or an adult might find this kind of a cool trade item to recieve a coin from another country. If only I had coins from my home planet of Dagobah :)

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It is so dissapointing that folks think the things they trade for our even.

It is sad to see a marble, or a bone from some dead animal, or a rock from the river 5 feet away, left in the cache.

These two posts reminded me of my earlier trading days. Value must be in the eye of the beholder. One of my hobbies is/was being a rockhound. I have no formal training in geology, I just think rocks are way kewl. I had a rock tumbler that I would run day & night. I'd spend all of one day gathering a small handful of unique stones, then purchase a new batch of abrasive medium and run them through the tumbler for 24 to 48 hours, depending on their hardness. I was always amazed at what came out, and I thought I'd share my wonder with the geo-community. After seeing a few logs following mine in which the finders were deriding my polished stones, (comments like, "I can't believe someone left friggin' rocks"), I got rid of my tumbler.

 

Often, one man's trash really is another man's treasure. :unsure:

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The best explaination of the degradation of cache was this post that simply asks you to Google the phrase Tragedy of the Commons. The phrase is from an essay by the late ecologist Garrett Hardin who argued that people will act in a selfish manner in sharing a common resource. Thus, while many will strive to always "trade up" they will still be times when they act in their self interest and take something of value to them leaving junk behind. Over time caches will degrade.

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I assume when I start a cache out with good swag it's going to end up having 'average' swag soon enough.

 

If I start out a cache with no swag, sure enough, it's soon upgraded to 'average' swag.

 

I've also seen caches move down hill, get complains, then as if by magic people start commening on how good the swag is due to some recent noble trades.

 

That's the exception but it happens.

 

On average I find that most caches are stocked with about average swag. That's mostly McCrap and McTrinkets. Everthing else is a McBonus.

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I love love love themed caches, but only if the theme is noted online -- rotten to get there and find oneself ill-prepared. But a lot of work and creativity goes into a themed cache, and I like to honor that.

 

Otherwise ... the reality is that no matter how much we'd like to, we can't control what other people do. They're going to continue to leave junk in caches and getting bothered by it is counterproductive. (Remember that saying about teaching a pig to whistle...?)

 

Being more Zen about the whole thing works for me. I have low expectations and am occasionally pleasantly surprised.

 

-- Jeannette

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It is so dissapointing that folks think the things they trade for our even.

It is sad to see a marble, or a bone from some dead animal, or a rock from the river 5 feet away, left in the cache.

These two posts reminded me of my earlier trading days. Value must be in the eye of the beholder. One of my hobbies is/was being a rockhound. I have no formal training in geology, I just think rocks are way kewl. I had a rock tumbler that I would run day & night. I'd spend all of one day gathering a small handful of unique stones, then purchase a new batch of abrasive medium and run them through the tumbler for 24 to 48 hours, depending on their hardness. I was always amazed at what came out, and I thought I'd share my wonder with the geo-community. After seeing a few logs following mine in which the finders were deriding my polished stones, (comments like, "I can't believe someone left friggin' rocks"), I got rid of my tumbler.

 

Often, one man's trash really is another man's treasure. :unsure:

 

I want to respond to this. I didn't say I found a polished rock in the cache...I said it was a rock from the river 5 feet away. To me, placing something in the cache that I could have picked up on my own by just walking a few feet FROM the cache, is not trading swag. I hope you know that I, for one, love those polished rocks you are talking about. I'm sorry you gave up something you truly enjoy. I wouldn't let logs like you describe stop you from something you like doing. Just like I'm not going to let crappy swag keep me from searching out geocaches.

 

I wish I had found a cache with your rocks. I truly do love them and I would have been happy to trade fairly if I saw one I just had to have.

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I'm starting to get better at finding cheap swag. I got this pretty wire basket threaded with little ornaments after Christmas. It's big enough to go in an ammo can, wouldn't fit anywhere else. Bought one for a cache and one for myself because I liked it. Cost 25 cents each. I'm going downtown today to find what's on sale 1/2 off the day after Easter, and if I can find $10 worth, I have a $3 coupon. Helps keeps costs down, and makes me not so mad when someone trades it for a bottle cap.

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The best explaination of the degradation of cache was this post that simply asks you to Google the phrase Tragedy of the Commons. The phrase is from an essay by the late ecologist Garrett Hardin who argued that people will act in a selfish manner in sharing a common resource. Thus, while many will strive to always "trade up" they will still be times when they act in their self interest and take something of value to them leaving junk behind. Over time caches will degrade.

 

I've read this before, and found it a good read. Thanks for refreshing me on it.

I'm in Northern California today on Spring Break with my daughter, and we just came in from finding a nice cache near Santa Rosa. By nice, I mean it was an excellent camo'd container, large enough to hold small trinkets, and placed in an area that was kid friendly with a reasonable challenge. -- It was loaded with soggy wet and rusty crap. She didnt' even want anything to trade, which is totally unlike her. We left a comparable item (that wasn't soggy or rusty) and at least enjoyed finding it. I aim to improve my own caches where I hide in my area of Southern CA.

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Often, one man's trash really is another man's treasure.

 

And often it's just plain garbage.

 

Here is what one of my typical small sized caches looks like when it is hidden.

 

f700336a-c8fb-4201-a099-7f1f0dcddc8b.jpg

 

Here is what was left in one when I archived and retreived it. Not the same cache but you get the picture

 

9c1e79f5-789c-4868-8b5b-a110fd650020.jpg

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It is so dissapointing that folks think the things they trade for our even.

It is sad to see a marble, or a bone from some dead animal, or a rock from the river 5 feet away, left in the cache.

These two posts reminded me of my earlier trading days. Value must be in the eye of the beholder. One of my hobbies is/was being a rockhound. I have no formal training in geology, I just think rocks are way kewl. I had a rock tumbler that I would run day & night. I'd spend all of one day gathering a small handful of unique stones, then purchase a new batch of abrasive medium and run them through the tumbler for 24 to 48 hours, depending on their hardness. I was always amazed at what came out, and I thought I'd share my wonder with the geo-community. After seeing a few logs following mine in which the finders were deriding my polished stones, (comments like, "I can't believe someone left friggin' rocks"), I got rid of my tumbler.

 

Often, one man's trash really is another man's treasure. :unsure:

 

If you are placing such an "item of love" in a cache, you need to note in your log what you have done and why it is such a special rock. Most of us unwashed would indeed look at it as "just another friggin' rock!" without some education.

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As long as the log book is there, nothing else matters. :unsure: Otherwise, a cool TB or geocoin. :)

I've noticed the further you get away from civilization or the harder the cache is to find, the better the swag. I leave some of my best stuff at the most remote locations sometimes not even trading for anything. Cachers that work that hard to hide and find a cache seem to work harder at providing fair trades.

The longer a cache exists in an urban environment and the more cachers who frequent it, the more garbage it contains. :D

Anymore if caching in a city, I do a quick check for coins or TBs, then go straight for the log book with a quick look at the rest of the contents thinking, "Yup! More crap!"

I still thank the owner for the good hide or the nice scenery, knowing the contents of the cache isn't his fault. :D

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I did one some time ago that was quite literally a welfare cache. It started life with nothing but a logbook, a pen and a request for swag. By the time I got to it several months later, it was filled with mostly decent stuff. When I do maintenance on my caches, roughly twice a year unless there is a reported problem, I always bring new swag. I find that, of the original contents, roughly 10% has disappeared without a trace, 10% gets traded for McCrap and 10% gets traded up or even. 70% of my original contents will still be there.

 

70%? Wow... perhaps you should reconsider leaving tube socks as swag? :unsure:

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Do you think a themed cache would stand a better chance if it were a multi with a puzzle?

 

For example... the first few stages contain notes and reminders about the theme, about halfway along you present the cacher with a "puzzle" that they will need to go home to solve, then the last few stages again reminding about the theme, before they finally get to the cache?

 

I guess the trick would be making the puzzle accessible to everyone, yet requiring a visit home...

 

Perhaps the puzzle could just use an item that most people have in their home? Like... a computer? or a local phone book?

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What gets me is when people leave money for swag, especially if it's part of the original swag, because then I KNOW they're trading down and by how much. Besides, who wants money? You can get that stuff anywhere.

I just bought some stamps at the machine in the Post Office cause I though the $1 coins it give in change makes grate swag. I guess I'll just hang on to these now. :unsure:

 

 

 

 

I have left foriegn coins from my personal collection behind as swag. Maybe it's because I collect coins, but I think that a child or an adult might find this kind of a cool trade item to recieve a coin from another country. If only I had coins from my home planet of Dagobah :)

 

Yeah, yeah, I know there are exceptions to the rule. :D Foreign coins are cool; no argument there. It's just that it should be a trade, not a purchase. I'm not trying to operate a gift store here.

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We just finished maintenance on a string of caches we have on a little trail. ALL had good swag. We found most uncovered, full of water (folks who hunt in rain with no umbrella to cover) and all but one was missing the good stuff. Most were empty or had parts of dollar store (think one dino, out of a $1. bag of dinosaurs) items. Two had broken Mctoys in it.

We're still going to place good stuff in caches we find (Seems like WHATEVER we put in tops what's there), but we're still not sure we want to keep "restocking" our own hides.

 

 

 

Wow! You guys are scaring me from wanting to plant my first cache. I told myself when I reached 25 finds I would hide my first cache. Now I am wondering if I want the hassle of maintaning it with all of the junk and theft that is left behind. I do have some great ideas and special places for people to visit though. I must think positive and continue to move forward with this adventure despite a couple of bad seeds out there. :unsure:

 

I think it's best to lower your expectations of people trading up. Most folks that have been caching for awhile will tell you it's not about the stuff in the cache. That said, why not amaze people with some great stuff in your first cache? I'd rank being surprised at individual efforts like this as one of the best things about geocaching.

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It might even help if GC.com had a category when registering your caches, called "Theme Cache". Although many will still not care that the cache has a theme, I suspect the theme will live longer with greater integrity than they currently do, registered as a "Traditional Cache".

Personally, I would read the cache page and honor the theme if I had something to trade within the theme, otherwise TNSL.

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It is so dissapointing that folks think the things they trade for our even.

It is sad to see a marble, or a bone from some dead animal, or a rock from the river 5 feet away, left in the cache.

These two posts reminded me of my earlier trading days. Value must be in the eye of the beholder. One of my hobbies is/was being a rockhound. I have no formal training in geology, I just think rocks are way kewl. I had a rock tumbler that I would run day & night. I'd spend all of one day gathering a small handful of unique stones, then purchase a new batch of abrasive medium and run them through the tumbler for 24 to 48 hours, depending on their hardness. I was always amazed at what came out, and I thought I'd share my wonder with the geo-community. After seeing a few logs following mine in which the finders were deriding my polished stones, (comments like, "I can't believe someone left friggin' rocks"), I got rid of my tumbler.

 

Often, one man's trash really is another man's treasure. :laughing:

I just have to say that my 9 year old daughter has a nice (and growing) collection of rocks that she started by trading for the rocks that she found in caches as trade. (Nice polished or less common types). I think a polished rock (not one I could just pick up on the trail) is a fine trade item. You can't please everyone.

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It is so dissapointing that folks think the things they trade for our even.

It is sad to see a marble, or a bone from some dead animal, or a rock from the river 5 feet away, left in the cache.

These two posts reminded me of my earlier trading days. Value must be in the eye of the beholder. One of my hobbies is/was being a rockhound. I have no formal training in geology, I just think rocks are way kewl. I had a rock tumbler that I would run day & night. I'd spend all of one day gathering a small handful of unique stones, then purchase a new batch of abrasive medium and run them through the tumbler for 24 to 48 hours, depending on their hardness. I was always amazed at what came out, and I thought I'd share my wonder with the geo-community. After seeing a few logs following mine in which the finders were deriding my polished stones, (comments like, "I can't believe someone left friggin' rocks"), I got rid of my tumbler.

 

Often, one man's trash really is another man's treasure. :laughing:

 

My very first FTF was a small cache in Montana (I live in California!). My daughter spotted some polished rocks and fell in love with one of them. We took the Snowflake Obsidian and left a Gold Dollar. Sheesh................ I guess I took "junk" and left "junk" so that's an even trade!

 

I've seen some fairly crummy swag left behind but I don't deride things such as polished stones. Many folks like them. Some folks are too picky regarding what is "good" swag. I usually don't trade at all but, when I do, I always try to trade up or even. It really isn't hard to do. Of course I have found caches with items I'd like to snag and left them behind anyway because I didn't have comparable swag with me to trade. It's no big deal - it just means the swag stays there for someone else. It's not like I'm caching in order to get swag. It is sad though when you find a container full of junk.

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I am often in a quandry about what to leave in a cache - and do think finding a cool polished stone is very fun! It shows some thought and desire to share an interest or bit of knowledge. We'll often leave Sacajawea dollars or foreign currency - thinking the idea is to leave something interesting to carry around that not everyone will have instant access to. We rarely take anything out unless it's a TB.

 

The times that I don't find some garbage left in a cache - a cigarette or broken fishing reel (for goodness' sake!) or some half-chewed toy are rare.

 

It does fry me that a cacher can spend the $$$ and time to set up a GPS, plan a hike, crawl all over the place to find something and then can't bother to bring something fun along to leave. It's just part of preparing to go caching!

 

Ok, sorry, enough ranting. LOL

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We don't usually leave expensive items, but they're always new.

 

We find mainly crap in our area-beat up matchbox cars, expired GNC discount card, movie ticket stub, used golf balls, etc. Lots of broken toys and a lot of things that can only be described as someones garbage. (as in they must have retrieved it from the trash)

 

I don't for one minute think "good" swag has to be expensive, but a gum wrapper or a couple of rubber bands shouldn't be used as trade items in my opinion. Even the least rich among us can no doubt afford a quick trip to Family Dollar.

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A lesson I taught my 7 year old just yesterday. He desperately wanted a cool key chain that we found but our 'trade' collection didn't hold anything that was quite as nice. Sorry little dude. We left a *new* little toy truck and took nothing.

 

Just as an aside, and since I'm really new at this - is there anywhere to go to get ideas for swag or do I just need to learn from experience?

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Just as an aside, and since I'm really new at this - is there anywhere to go to get ideas for swag or do I just need to learn from experience?

 

If you do a search on these formus there are at least 2 threads discussing swag. I'm new to this, too, and found them helpful.

 

Here is one:

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...419&hl=swag

 

Here is another:

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...282&hl=swag

Edited by French.
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