Website usability project

[+bteam.ca]

First of all, thank you to everyone who has contributed to building geocaching.com over the years! I certainly don't want to dis anyone. Your efforts are truly appreciated by us all.

 

I'm new to geocaching, but in the first few weeks, I've been frustrated by the number of mouse clicks I need to make on the web site to do very common repetitive tasks. I've also noticed the information is often displayed in slightly inconsistant ways, or too much paper is wasted trying to make sure I get the information printed that I need when searching for a cache. This is not at all surprising for a site that has grown so quickly and become so popular, but perhaps it's time to step back and do a usability review?

 

Is there any existing forum where topics of this sort can be discussed?

 

I'm willing to bet there are a ton of volunteers out there whose day job includes solving these design issues (myself included) and if we merely solicit their input, we can get lots of free (but good) advice, since it would go towards making their own hobby more enjoyable.

 

Should we start a dedicated forum for this topic? Perhaps even insist that posted have previous design experience?

 

Those are my thoughts for today. Happy easter weekend everyone.

 

Mike

[+Airmapper]

[Keystone]

I'm moving this thread to the Geocaching.com website forum. That's the best place to report bugs and make feature suggestions.

 

I know that the developers would be interested in hearing specific examples of useability/navigation concerns. Post them to this thread. Thanks!

[+DavidMac]

Okay, here's a suggestion that I've had for a while, but haven't wanted to start a whole thread over: on the calendar on the My Account page (Geocaches tab), could a navigation button be added to change the calendar by year? I find myself occasionally referring back to finds from several years ago, and on dialup, it's painful to flip backwards 40+ months one month at a time.

[+mtrax]

Also there is links on the print PDF for with 5,10,20 logs etc but why not on the standard print cache, basically you have to select the print format then select how many logs etc.. when it would be easier with the one link..

 

Also on the Log cache can you also put the TB links so you don't have to go back to the Cache page to select Travel bugs to log/pick up. When you log cache put a link to TB that a in that cache.

Edited April 8, 2007 by mtrax

[+Viajero Perdido]

I know that the developers would be interested in hearing specific examples of useability/navigation concerns. Post them to this thread. Thanks!

All righty. I only have one minor thing to whinge about.

 

"more... in the Bookmark Lists box on the cache pages. Sometimes that's not true; there's nothing more. I've got a couple of caches that are on exactly 3 lists each, and I keep clicking the more... to see that, oh, there aren't any more.

 

(Minor, I know... I kill time here on the forums while waiting for the regular website.)

[+bteam.ca]

Thanks for moving this thread to a more appropriate forum; I didn't realize this one was here.

 

My personal suggestions are broken into 3 categories:

- Dealing with the maps (i.e. where to go next from the map).

- Printing details about any caches we're going to go searching for.

- Updating logs when we get back.

 

For tonight, let me just make some suggestions about the pdf files we'd print out to use while caching. Please note that these are the way WE would use the pdf's, and may not be the same as other people.

 

Firstly, I like to use only one or at most two pages of paper. I don't want to waste any more paper than absolutely necessary.

 

Sometimes we print the html versions instead of the pdf's because we find they have more information on them (albeit sometimes too much). In particular, I'd like to see these changes to the pdf's:

 

- add "last found" date. We find that important to encourage the kids to keep looking (e.g. "it was just found 5 days ago, it must still be here")

- date in yyyy-mm-dd format because I can never remember the difference between 2/3/2007 and 3/2/2007. 2007-03-02 seems so much more consistent

- render date for the data (in fine print somewhere on the 1st page)

- decrypted hints (yes, I know that's cheating, but we're beginners and we're taking kids with less patience). Perhaps make this an option?

- don't waste blank lines. I'd like the hints and logs right under the description (i.e. same page).

- smaller fonts so most often everything you need fits onto one page.

- however many logs fit onto the last piece of paper (i.e. stop rendering logs when a page boundary is reached).

[+mtrax]

- smaller fonts so most often everything you need fits onto one page.

- however many logs fit onto the last piece of paper (i.e. stop rendering logs when a page boundary is reached).

I know its not a solution for the website but Firefox can rescale the whole page I use 70% and it works pretty well, but I agree the PDF two page thing... go figure..

[+mtrax]

Yeah and the Dates... the sorting of finds.. can anyone explain why its not .. by time of find...

[+cache_test_dummies]

Yeah and the Dates... the sorting of finds.. can anyone explain why its not .. by time of find...

Sorting by time of find would require the addition of a 'time found' field on the cache log page. This feature has been requested in the past - a pretty good discussion on the subject can be found here.

[+ScoutingWV]

I know this probably won't happen, BUT why not look at it as though we could start again knowing what is known now. Consider usage trends, account creation and maintenance trends, high and low impact areas of the site, high and low usage areas of the site, highly used features and those that are hardly used at all. Why not consider what a re-write of the site would look like? I've been involved in several refresh projects and even though a full refresh may not happen it could still expose some deeper functionality issues and better solutions (for Groundspeak and it's customers).

 

For example, what about the overall logic flow of the different segments of the site? Web portals and other applications have evolved to the point where the different segments of the site could be isolated and presented efficiently "gadget style" allowing users of the site to add the segments in which they have interest to their individual portal home page. Separate the services and their associated loads to application, web, database, image storage, forum, and security servers.

 

What is done about account pruning? The ability to change a user name for active users is blocked, but there is nothing that blocks out an account after some extended period in inactivity. I don't mean the account has to log a find - I mean the owner has to at least log on.

 

How to pay for it? Well, maybe it's time to move away from a free-use model and turn to a 90 day trial model, then $X for a basic membership, and $Y for a premium. Why not separate the forum account from the geocaching account? I don't know anything at all about the Waymarking site, but it may be possible to use some of those resources to assist this site. Heck - doesn't Diet Coke money help Coke and vice-versa?

 

Just some random thoughts ... Thanks for reading.

 

<edit: how could I have missed these funding sources - Advertisers and sponsorships! The coin vendors, Jeep, swag makers, etc.>

Edited April 8, 2007 by ScoutingWV

[Keystone]

I know this probably won't happen, BUT why not look at it as though we could start again knowing what is known now. Consider usage trends, account creation and maintenance trends, high and low impact areas of the site, high and low usage areas of the site, highly used features and those that are hardly used at all. Why not consider what a re-write of the site would look like? I've been involved in several refresh projects and even though a full refresh may not happen it could still expose some deeper functionality issues and better solutions (for Groundspeak and it's customers).

Never assume that something will never happen. I learned that when I stated there would "never" be an off-topic forum. I'd like to encourage others to post answers to the question, "what would a re-write of the site look like?"

[+bteam.ca]

Coming at it from a rewrite (or rather re-design) perspective is indeed a common approach to get people thinking outside their current viewpoint and I think that's a great idea.

 

Should we perhaps break this into two parts?

1) What is the low hanging fruit that can be fixed with minimal effort using the existing code?

2) If a re-write were done, what would that look like?

 

Hopefully, ideas from (2) can migrate back to (1) without actually needing an entire re-write. It'd be a shame to require a full re-write of a production system. None of us would have anything to see of the new progress while that was happening.

 

How can we keep track of and consolidate these ideas into two discrete lists everyone can see and respond to? If we've got that, we could keep pointing at the first list and say "please, can we have these minor changes soon?" The re-write list would merely be a resource for us and the programmers/designers for if and when they ever have time to tackle the bigger projects.

Edited April 8, 2007 by bteam.ca

[+ScoutingWV]

I think bteam.ca's 2 point approach is a good one. From a user perspective, what would some of the low hanging fruit appear to be? Keep in mind it may not be the case depending on what actually happens behind the curtain.

 

One question - can there be sponsorship from within Groundspeak to provide the needed link between customer feedback and internal progress? Something more than an occasional post to a discussion thread?

 

Surely Groundspeak recognizes the concerns of its customers and wants to improver upon its product. But it is a private company with limited resources. Will Groundspeak be willing to open up a project to allow its users to assist with it's improvements on a larger scale than before? Something more than just an online suggestion box?

 

Maybe the customers won't write the code, but there is certainly a willingness from people who have expertise in areas that could benefit the company. Why not interview them, have them sign and NDA (if that becomes a concern) and get to work on a volunteer basis to build a site that is improved and able to be supported by the existing staffing level?

[+Renegade Knight]

...Is there any existing forum where topics of this sort can be discussed?...

 

You have just posted it.

[+Semper Questio]

Howzabout...

 

1. Returning cache lists resulting from keyword searches in order of proximity to your home coords just like when you search by zip code?

 

2. Again, with keyword searches, add a checkbox next to the keyword box to limit the results to cache sin your home state or an input field to limit the results to a radius of x miles/km?

[+bteam.ca]

1. Returning cache lists resulting from keyword searches in order of proximity to your home coords just like when you search by zip code?

What a great example. That sounds like a search feature that's nearly useless the way it works now, but could be made useful simply by adding an "order by distance" clause (or somesuch) to the query.

[+Markwell]

Right now, the keyword search only seaches against one field. To add the proximity search would mean that it would also have to do the distance calculation to limit it or sort it, which I believe would be a much bigger hit.

 

This sounds like something to be added to the PQ generator instead of an on-the-fly search.

 

Hmmmm.... Adding "Keyword" as a field to the PQ Generator. Now THAT'S something I could agree with.

[+ScoutingWV]

Credit to cheeseheads for posting this in another thread.

 

I also think a rectangular PQ would be useful. Set two corners of the rectangle and give me what's inside. Much more useful for traveling than the radial search.

[+minxyy]

Is there a way that you can see how far all "new posts for the UK" are from your home?

 

If not I'd like to see that happening - like on the "nearets to your home co-ords" button - saves remembering who lives where or opening every new post for the day. I have already set my notifications to send new posts to inbox but lobot hates being rushed and the other day I got my mail after I had downloaded and done the cache from gc.com site!

 

I would also like the flags on "map it" to stay a particular colour for a while on a new post!

[+bteam.ca]

I've been thinking about this project, but I'm still not sure how we can really help to influence the site to make the changes. It occurred to me that this is a problem common to many community oriented sites. I think there are two obstacles:

 

1) Collecting suggestions from the members

 

Someone needs to keep a list of the suggestions that we can point to as a faq when people want to make a new suggestion.

 

2) Prioritizing that work based on difficulty and how it fits into an overall vision.

 

At work, I usually like to prioritize work of this type with a cost/benefit formula (aka benefit / effort). In a non-dictatorship like a community site, we (the users) could vote on the benefit for each suggested task, and the developers could vote on the effort. I usually rank both benefit and effort from 1 to 10, rather than getting into anything more fine-grained than that.

 

It would be cool if there was a plug-in for this forum software that let you manage a list of items (suggestions), let a group of users vote on the benefit, let a different group of users vote on the effort, then display all of this in a table with the following columns:

- title of project

- description of project

- avg benefit vote (number of votes)

- avg effort vote (number of votes)

- ratio of benefit over effort (also default to ordering the table by this value).

 

A polling feature already exists for this forum software, but it would need to be expanded to handle a list of polls and sort them as above.

 

If we had a plug-in that did something like that, then the developers could easily know what they should be working on next any time they have some time to work on customer requested features.

 

Mike

[knowschad]

I'm new to geocaching, but in the first few weeks, I've been frustrated by the number of mouse clicks I need to make on the web site to do very common repetitive tasks.

 

Agreed. It takes 5 mouse clicks to go to a cache that I own or that I've found (assuming that its on the first page).

 

1) Click on my username

2) Click on my stats icon

3) Click on the Geocaches tab

4) Click on All Cache Hides (or Finds)

5) Click on a cache link

 

Another small functionality issue that is a pet peeve of mine: The textbox used for entering waypoints now, fortunately, defaults to a "GC" prefix. Nice... I wanted that for a long time. But when the field gets focus, the cursor bounces to the beginning of the field instead of sticking to the first position after the "G". Very annoying. The majority of the time, people are looking for "GC" waypoints.

 

Another:

On the Hide & Seek a Cache page, "By Waypoint" is third from the bottom! Isn't that one of the primary lookups used, along with zipcode? I know that it is, for me. And on the same page, "By Keyword" is really a title search, not a keyword search.

 

Those are some of the "low hanging fruit" that immediately come to my mind. Thanks for listening!

[+Miragee]

I guess I have not been aware of some of these frustrations because I use a tabbed browser, Opera, and leave all those pages, including My Account, Pocket Queries, My Profile, User Upload Image, etc., open all the time. A simple click of a tab, and I am at that page.

 

I also have several Forum topic pages all the time fior easy access . . .

[+TrailGators]

I guess I have not been aware of some of these frustrations because I use a tabbed browser, Opera, and leave all those pages, including My Account, Pocket Queries, My Profile, User Upload Image, etc., open all the time. A simple click of a tab, and I am at that page.

 

I also have several Forum topic pages all the time fior easy access . . .

I think most of the browsers are tabbed now. But I am a creature of habit and still have not really used this feature much.

 

Anyhow, if I had to suggest something I like how the Waymarking site is organized. I wish there were categories for caches like there are for waymarks. This would better cater to the various styles of cachers out there.

Edited April 17, 2007 by TrailGators

[+mtrax]

I've been thinking about this project, but I'm still not sure how we can really help to influence the site to make the changes. It occurred to me that this is a problem common to many community oriented sites. I think there are two obstacles:

 

1) Collecting suggestions from the members

 

Someone needs to keep a list of the suggestions that we can point to as a faq when people want to make a new suggestion.

 

2) Prioritizing that work based on difficulty and how it fits into an overall vision.

 

Mike

here here... should a sticky

[+Prime Suspect]

I'm new to geocaching, but in the first few weeks, I've been frustrated by the number of mouse clicks I need to make on the web site to do very common repetitive tasks.

 

Agreed. It takes 5 mouse clicks to go to a cache that I own or that I've found (assuming that its on the first page).

 

1) Click on my username

2) Click on my stats icon

3) Click on the Geocaches tab

4) Click on All Cache Hides (or Finds)

5) Click on a cache link

 

 

Yes, it takes 5 clicks, if you start off clicking on the wrong link.

How about this:

1) Click on My Account (from the left sidebar menu)

2) Click on Geocaches (Mine) at the top of the page.

And there's your list of caches you own.

[+TotemLake]

I've been thinking about this project, but I'm still not sure how we can really help to influence the site to make the changes. It occurred to me that this is a problem common to many community oriented sites. I think there are two obstacles:

 

1) Collecting suggestions from the members

 

Someone needs to keep a list of the suggestions that we can point to as a faq when people want to make a new suggestion.

 

2) Prioritizing that work based on difficulty and how it fits into an overall vision.

 

At work, I usually like to prioritize work of this type with a cost/benefit formula (aka benefit / effort). In a non-dictatorship like a community site, we (the users) could vote on the benefit for each suggested task, and the developers could vote on the effort. I usually rank both benefit and effort from 1 to 10, rather than getting into anything more fine-grained than that.

 

It would be cool if there was a plug-in for this forum software that let you manage a list of items (suggestions), let a group of users vote on the benefit, let a different group of users vote on the effort, then display all of this in a table with the following columns:

- title of project

- description of project

- avg benefit vote (number of votes)

- avg effort vote (number of votes)

- ratio of benefit over effort (also default to ordering the table by this value).

 

A polling feature already exists for this forum software, but it would need to be expanded to handle a list of polls and sort them as above.

 

If we had a plug-in that did something like that, then the developers could easily know what they should be working on next any time they have some time to work on customer requested features.

 

Mike

1) Collecting suggestions from the members

 

You have it with this thread.

 

2) Prioritizing that work based on difficulty and how it fits into an overall vision.

Does your work make this information public outside the group directly involved? Probably not so why the expectation to have it made public here? the point is, what may be a high priority to you does not necessarily translate to a high priority to the engineer who may be faced with other high priority items such as redesigning the site to improve up time. My favorite saying is "Your emergency is not mine." I'm sure that holds true here with this wish list versus the must have list.

[+LeoGeo]

I'd find it convenient to have a one-step method of logging a travel bug "through" a cache -- that is, log it as having been placed into the cache and then immediately retrieved again. This would be useful for those personal TBs that people use to log the distance they've traveled, or for regular TBs whose goal is to visit lots of caches.

[+bluegst]

How about an easier way to add multiple caches to a bookmark list without having to open each one individually? There are checkboxes on the far right side and a 'select all' button at the bottom of the screen used for downloading waypoints. How about expanding it's functionality and adding a button like "add to bookmark list"? Just a thought...

[knowschad]

Yes, it takes 5 clicks, if you start off clicking on the wrong link.

How about this:

1) Click on My Account (from the left sidebar menu)

2) Click on Geocaches (Mine) at the top of the page.

And there's your list of caches you own.

Thanks for making me aware of a better way, but that does not make my point invalid. If I am following the difficult path, others are too. If there's a better way, then it should be THE way. Besides, that gives me a list off all finds AND hides and even notes that I've posted.

 

Most importantly, this thread needs to listen to the input, not discount it. It doesn't serve this thread to point to a better way, even if there really IS one. If a user is frustrated with parts of the interface, then a user is frustrated with parts of the interface. Fix it. Something is wrong or they wouldn't be posting it.

Edited April 19, 2007 by knowschad

[+Prime Suspect]

Besides, that gives me a list off all finds AND hides and even notes that I've posted.

 

No, it doesn't. You didn't click the "Geocaches (Mine)" link.

 

 

If you had clicked on that link, you would have seen a list of your caches, not "a list off all finds AND hides and even notes that I've posted."

[+hh1]

There is much redundancy in the information displayed on the cachepage (or better said partial redundancy or overlap)

 

Example :

 

Historically we got the cachetype MULTICACHE which usually meant that it might require somewhat more time (the definition is one or more intermediary waypoints)

 

Then we got the ADDITIONAL WAYPOINTS which tell exactly the same.

 

And we have the attributes such as

 

TAKES LESS (MORE) THAN A HOUR

 

SIGNIFICANT HIKE

 

and many more

 

And we even got the stars for terrain ...

[+Prime Suspect]

There is much redundancy in the information displayed on the cachepage (or better said partial redundancy or overlap)

 

Example :

 

Historically we got the cachetype MULTICACHE which usually meant that it might require somewhat more time (the definition is one or more intermediary waypoints)

 

Then we got the ADDITIONAL WAYPOINTS which tell exactly the same.

 

And we have the attributes such as

 

TAKES LESS (MORE) THAN A HOUR

 

SIGNIFICANT HIKE

 

and many more

 

And we even got the stars for terrain ...

 

There's really not much redundancy there.

 

A multi-cache can be something as simple as a 50' offset. A lot of single stage caches take more time than a lot of multi-caches. Stages do not always equal time.

 

Likewise, a cache that takes more than an hour does not necessarily involve a Significant Hike. It may have several difficult stages that require a lot of looking, or waiting around for muggles to clear. The Significant Hike attribute indicates more than just the time required. It also alerts one that they might want to bring water, etc.

 

Additional Waypoints (for stages) don't show up on the cache page, in their usual configuration. However, they can be used for things like parking coordinates. Additional Waypoints don't necessarily mean its a multi-cache, and the apparent absence of them doesn't mean it's a traditional cache.

[+TotemLake]

It doesn't serve this thread to point to a better way, even if there really IS one.

I disagree with this. It will always serve a thread such as this to point out a better way even if it doesn't meet your expectations of what should be or should not be. Implementation of ease does not mean it has to be your way only.

 

In this case, PS showed an ease of implementation that served the purpose you sought. Fewer clicks.

[+mtrax]

and what about the process for all the other suggestions listed right on the top of this thread... eg local date support for non-us contries better filters on Googlemaps, custom data formats eg dd/mm/yyyy , sorting of finds by found date etc..

[+HuggyFamily]

I'd like to see a feature where I can "watch" another geocacher. We have many geo-friends and I'd like to keep track of their finds as I would my own. It would be nice to add them to a watchlist so I get notified when they find any (or a filtered set of) caches.

 

Thanks.

 

PH.

[Keystone]

As has been stated in other threads, the "Friends Group" concept is a high priority on the new features list. It's being worked on.

[+traildad]

I don't know if this includes the forum as well, I would like to have an ignore topic option. When I log on to read the forums I choose the view new posts link. I get 10 to 15 pages of topics to go through. Some I see over and over and will never read like foreign language posts. I would like to be able to mark them so they become invisible so it will take me less time to go through the pages of new posts.

 

Also I would like to see the clickable area to choose the next page "1,2,3,4" be expanded to something larger than the 10 microns or so that it is now. The number is outlined in a box but if you don't put the pointer exactly over the number it's a miss.

Thanks

[gis6685]

My personal suggestions are broken into 3 categories:

- Dealing with the maps (i.e. where to go next from the map).

- Printing details about any caches we're going to go searching for.

- Updating logs when we get back.

 

...

 

- date in yyyy-mm-dd format because I can never remember the difference between 2/3/2007 and 3/2/2007. 2007-03-02 seems so much more consistent

 

I didn't see anything about updating logs and my request fits in with that mostly.

 

I get frustrated getting around when there's no "back to list" option. I did a search on caches in my area so I could log some finds. I clicked on the first one to log it found, filled in the infomation and submitted it, and... there's no back option. If I click the back button, sometimes it takes me back out to where I logged in (if I forget to do that first, which happens ) It would be nice to have some kind of "back to search list" or similar. Kind of like how eBay has.

 

And I must say that I think 2007-03-02 would be more confusing to me than 3/2/2007. In a perfect world, maybe our account could specify how the dates are displayed...