technology

[+bumblingbs]

I don't like change. I bought my husband a new coffee maker 2 or 3 years ago, the kind that makes foam and froth and espresso. He uses it all the time. I'll get around to learning how to use it one of these days...

 

So, I'm totally a paper cacher. I haven't even tried to figure out how to use maps or breadcrumbs on my GPSr. I've only been caching since, um, 2003, so give me time. If the numbers are getting smaller, I'm getting closer to the cache. I may be slower, but I'm perfectly happy.

 

I've been confused by a lot of logs I've gotten on my caches lately. Like one - I give driving directions and parking coordinates and I keep getting logs from people who bushwhacked through thick growth and never read the cache description. There is a trail. Is that what you get when you download the cache to your cell phone or whatever, just coordinates with no description?

 

I'm just a teensy bit worried because I have two caches with danger warnings - they are on high cliffs with no fences or barriers of any kind. The caches can be retrieved perfectly safely, but you wouldn't want your 4 year old running ahead of you. Are people not seeing these warnings, and if not, what should I do?

[+TexasGringo]

***I'm just a teensy bit worried because I have two caches with danger warnings - they are on high cliffs with no fences or barriers of any kind. The caches can be retrieved perfectly safely, but you wouldn't want your 4 year old running ahead of you. Are people not seeing these warnings, and if not, what should I do?***

 

Many times people (Me Included) don't pay attention to the cache attributes (those Icons on the right). I usually put tips right in the cache description where it says "You won't have to walk thru the marsh"

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...b9-13c8d00c93f0

 

or a warning to explain the 3.5 terrain rating..."You WILL need time and have to walk some distance to complete the cache". Even this one...with a long walk... is "Kid Friendly" because it is a huge park...with a play area for them.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...df-83b2d4385a77

 

 

Don't take the kids on Cliff Hangers...there are plenty of easy caches in parks that are great for kids.

 

Pick the low terrain and difficulty ratings with the kids. You and them will enjoy them more without worrying.

Edited April 7, 2007 by GURU4HIRE

[+bumblingbs]

I haven't used any cache attributes, and I don't know if it's right to up the terrain ratings to keep kids away. One is a 20 foot walk on flat ground from your car.

 

Let me see if I can do the linky thing...

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...d7-d046d80c4065

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...18-2c08ac91a626

 

My question is, in whatever format they are using are people not getting this information?

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

Many people don't read the descriptions, they simply download waypoints and go. They consider caching this way part of the fun, so if they fall off a cliff they can't blame you.

[+bumblingbs]

Well it's fine if they fall off the cliff, but I don't want their kids to. So, If you are downloading the cache to your cell or IPOD or PDA or whatever other initials we're using (I'm so behind) you get the cache description and can read or not?

Edited April 7, 2007 by bumblingbs

[Neos2]

Some people just don't (won't?) read the cache pages, period. They report getting an extra thrill from finding the cache using only the coordinates.

 

I perfer to read the cache pages, not only so I know what I am getting myself into and what I am looking for, but also to make sure I won't need to do something special, such as:

 

avoid private property

park in a certain place

take the trail head to the east of the parking lot and the left fork when I get to it

go there during the hours the place is open to the public

enjoy some special feature that may be just around the corner from the cache view

[+TexasGringo]

If you read the cache description...the warning is clearly stated. I think the way this person did it is far more effective than the cache attributes. It even says "If you choose to bring children, hang on to them!".

 

If the cache is really easy, then the cache rating is correct...if not, then previous cache finders will usually complain or question the rating.

 

leave the ratings as you see them...but if there is any concerns...put them in your description where people read them...more than looking at an Icon.

 

That could even be an enhancement to posting a cache...a warning section that could be filled in if necessary and it could be in "RED" so everyone would see it.

[+bumblingbs]

I suppose I could make these puzzle caches, which would force them to read the cache page, but they are not puzzles....

[+TexasGringo]

I see posts up above where people find excitement in just going...without reading the description.

 

I Always read them and even use google-earth sometimes to research them. It is no excitement when you get hurt and go to the hospital or your kid gets hurt or killed.

 

Thats My Take...

[+bumblingbs]

And, I would add that these caches have not been a problem. Even two members of the local police force have logged Another Point of View, which is the one close to the edge. But another cache I own keeps getting logs as if people didn't read the cache page, and I wasn't sure how that might impact these two, which are perfectly safe ~if~ you know what you are approaching.

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

I personally read every cache description while at home, but once I hit the road all I have are the coordinates in my GPSr, after I find one I simply select the next and go. Really challenges my memory trying to recall what I read and I DNF sometimes when I could have found it if I had rhe description with me.

Seriously thinking about getting a PDA this spring but like you, every time I look at them I'm hopelessly lost.

[+bumblingbs]

Oh, Cpt. Blackbeard, when I go caching, I start with a clean car and come home with a muddy car filled with a paper tornado.

So, then, to be clear, on a PDA you can get the whole cache description, it's just whether you choose to read it or not?

Thanks again, and I'm outta here, off to check a cache and prepare for the Easter bunny.

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

Oh, Cpt. Blackbeard, when I go caching, I start with a clean car and come home with a muddy car filled with a paper tornado.

So, then, to be clear, on a PDA you can get the whole cache description, it's just whether you choose to read it or not?

Thanks again, and I'm outta here, off to check a cache and prepare for the Easter bunny.

 

I used to hand write everything into a notebook and take it with me, then I tried printing it out, then i gave up and just started carrying the GPSr.

And yes as I understand it you can load the entire cache description, the hint and the last five logs into the PDA and read it anywhere you want to.

I gotta get me one if I ever figure out what I should get.

I gotta prepare me Mr Bunny to, so enjoy youir Easter.

[+mtn-man]

Some people just don't (won't?) read the cache pages, period. They report getting an extra thrill from finding the cache using only the coordinates.

That would be me. I've been that way a long time.

 

The point about kids is a good one. A couple of weeks ago, the puppymonster and I were out hiding a cache. We were done and were heading back to the car. We went next to a lake and I was moving down to take a picture. J.C. was next to the lake looking out like he does. He does not like water, but suddenly he jumped into the lake over to a patch of water lillies. Looking at it after he came back out of the water, he thought it was dry land. It was absolutely hysterical at the time. When we get to cliffs, he loves to look over them. You can bank on the fact that I have his leash tight at that time and watch him carefully. The lesson I learned is to watch him more closely all the time. I watch for snakes and such, but the leap he did right into the water was just plain funny.

 

Again, my theory on the GC logo is that you have a cacher in one box. The next box shows the bushwhack trail some cachers (like me) use when they plow through to the cache. The next box shows the cache (the flag). The last box shows the six foot wide trail that runs within 10 feet of the trail that you could have used to get there, and what you usually use to get back to the car.

[+bumblingbs]

I'm back, and the young 'un is getting a lovely Easter basket. I think my question has been aswered here. The information is apparently available to all, some just choose not to read it. I don't care if you end up bushwhacking to one of my caches that has a perfectly good trail, but if people with PDA's were ~only~

getting coordinates I was looking for some way to flag a cache that might be dangerous for the kids.

Thank you!

[+Confucius' Cat]

Well it's fine if they fall off the cliff, but I don't want their kids to. So, If you are downloading the cache to your cell or IPOD or PDA or whatever other initials we're using (I'm so behind) you get the cache description and can read or not?

Personally, i gave up being responsible for other people's kids back around the time the gubament started getting into the business of "child protection" and told everybody they can't interfere with the little doofusses in any meaningful way; and about the time the other kid's parents started attacking responsible adults who dared to criticize their little darlings for their rudeness and misbehaviour in public; and back around the time when the helicopter parents started telling everyone it was none of their business what their little brat did as long as they were allowed to WIN.

 

OK so it was a little bit of a rant, but the point is YOU CAN"T be responsible for other peoples' kids. The "parental units" or equivalent thereof which may or may not accompany or in some way supervise the "age challenged" adults in their charge will pretty much do what they want.

 

I suppose I could make these puzzle caches, which would force them to read the cache page, but they are not puzzles....

No, actually that would probably result in some ignorant cacher searching for the cache at the bottom of the lake where you posted the bogus coordinates. If they don't care to read the cache description, what makes you think they will take note of the cache type either?

 

Put your warnings on the cache page where you feel it is appropriate and let that be enough.

 

Give up on protecting people from themselves. We've got a omniscient, ever loving "daddy" in government to do that.

[+bumblingbs]

I'll have to admit that I don't know what a helicopter parent is.

[+Confucius' Cat]

They "hover" over their children, protecting them from ALL harm and securing the blessings of "fairness" (typically meaning "my child wins") in all cases therefor, fighting ALL their battles both on the ball field and- in the case of a "bad call" by an official- in court.

 

You know who they are.

 

Of course, this post and the other are somewhat tongue-in-cheek.

 

But the point of the whole thing is, you just can't protect people from themselves. people sometimes do stupid things- we ALL do. That is a basic human trait.

 

No matter what you do, some people will still figure out a way to get hurt or in some way accomplish a result you never in your wildest dreams imagined possible.

 

Just use common sense, post what you think is appropriate, and don't lose any sleep over it.

Edited April 8, 2007 by Confucius' Cat

[+Hotlanta]

To answer your question about paperless caching and all the info being downloaded including the descriptions and hints and such; I get Pocket Queries sent to my e-mail and use GSAK and Cachmate software to transfer these files to my palm PDA and GPSr. Using these programs allow me to have all the information from a geocache’s page downloaded and shown on my palm PDA. This software is pretty advanced but easy to use and seems to be very popular among the paperless crowd of geocachers I’ve met and read about in these forums. I’d assume most of the other programs will allow you to download the same information too.

 

I like having all the information right there in my PDA, I might not read all the descriptions, but I do most of the time. And in some places or parks which have several geocaches located in them, it is nice to have all of their info handy with out worrying about if I left the paper description back in the car. Plus if the caches are multi-caches I often work on two or three at the same time to keep from walking back and forth over the same trails to each cache stage.

 

Anyway, it works well for me. But even having all that high tech stuff at my finger tips has not kept me from taking the wrong step and ending up in the hospital! Folks should know that once they step foot out there to find any cache, anything can happen….. and usually does when least expected.

[+ImperfectSense]

Ok, the short and sweet of it...

 

There are only 2 ways to have access to information such as the description, the difficulty rating, the terrain, the hints, etc....

 

1) look at it in advance, and write it down

2) load the complete cache page onto your PDA (or use Pocket Queries on your PDA)

 

if you don't do one of these two things, which require either premeditation or a handy dandy pda, then you will not have access to anything except the coordinates and cache name and (sometimes) the type of cache (I say sometimes because in many cases this is wrong, for example a puzzle cache marked as a traditional cache *grrrrrr*). sometimes you will also get the hint, but often only the first 50 characters (depending on your GPS).

 

so, when creating a cache that's dangerous, I'd suggest working that into the name somehow if at all possible (for example... "Cache on a Cliff Face" or something like that). even this isn't surefire, as people may only see the first part of the name, but it's better than nothing

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

 

so, when creating a cache that's dangerous, I'd suggest working that into the name somehow if at all possible (for example... "Cache on a Cliff Face" or something like that). even this isn't surefire, as people may only see the first part of the name, but it's better than nothing

 

Then perhaps "Cliff Face Cache" would work better as they are sure to see "Cliff".

[+TrailGators]

 

so, when creating a cache that's dangerous, I'd suggest working that into the name somehow if at all possible (for example... "Cache on a Cliff Face" or something like that). even this isn't surefire, as people may only see the first part of the name, but it's better than nothing

 

Then perhaps "Cliff Face Cache" would work better as they are sure to see "Cliff".

This is the way to it along with the warnings in bold red for the kids! Edited April 8, 2007 by TrailGators

[+bumblingbs]

Darn, I used blue. It was prettier.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...d7-d046d80c4065

 

That's one of them, the other is comparable. I kind of hate to change the names of caches that have been around for awhile; I'll have to think about that. I'd really prefer to designate them as puzzle caches, even though they are not, just to force people to read the description. Again, these caches are perfectly safe for adults, but they had better be supervising their kids.

[+Kit Fox]

I'm just a teensy bit worried because I have two caches with danger warnings - they are on high cliffs with no fences or barriers of any kind. The caches can be retrieved perfectly safely, but you wouldn't want your 4 year old running ahead of you. Are people not seeing these warnings, and if not, what should I do?

 

I would rather let these cachers compete for the Darwin Awards. I definately hate it when cachers purposely ignore posted hours, legal access locations, etc in their "pursuit of FTF."

 

Well it's fine if they fall off the cliff, but I don't want their kids to. So, If you are downloading the cache to your cell or IPOD or PDA or whatever other initials we're using (I'm so behind) you get the cache description and can read or not?

Personally, i gave up being responsible for other people's kids back around the time the gubament started getting into the business of "child protection" and told everybody they can't interfere with the little doofusses in any meaningful way; and about the time the other kid's parents started attacking responsible adults who dared to criticize their little darlings for their rudeness and misbehaviour in public; and back around the time when the helicopter parents started telling everyone it was none of their business what their little brat did as long as they were allowed to WIN.

 

OK so it was a little bit of a rant, but the point is YOU CAN"T be responsible for other peoples' kids. The "parental units" or equivalent thereof which may or may not accompany or in some way supervise the "age challenged" adults in their charge will pretty much do what they want.

 

I suppose I could make these puzzle caches, which would force them to read the cache page, but they are not puzzles....

No, actually that would probably result in some ignorant cacher searching for the cache at the bottom of the lake where you posted the bogus coordinates. If they don't care to read the cache description, what makes you think they will take note of the cache type either?

 

Put your warnings on the cache page where you feel it is appropriate and let that be enough.

 

Give up on protecting people from themselves. We've got a omniscient, ever loving "daddy" in government to do that.

 

My thoughts exactly, I put warnings like this on my page:

 

This cache is recommended for Experienced outdoor enthusiasts only. The terrain is quite steep, consisting of loose, and unstable rock. There are plenty of steep drop-offs that could take your life. Small kids are not recommended for this hike.

 

If someone is dumb enough to go "half-cocked" into the wildeneress with tennis shoes, a 20oz bottle of water, and a cell phone, during the summer, I don't feel bad when they die.

Edited April 8, 2007 by Kit Fox

[+bumblingbs]

I must admit that the Darwin Awards occured to me. Did you ever see the one with the guy who had a lawn chair, lots of helium balloons, and a six pack of beer?

[+Confucius' Cat]

Ok, the short and sweet of it...

 

There are only 2 ways to have access to information such as the description, the difficulty rating, the terrain, the hints, etc....

 

1) look at it in advance, and write it down

2) load the complete cache page onto your PDA (or use Pocket Queries on your PDA)

 

if you don't do one of these two things, which require either premeditation or a handy dandy pda, then you will not have access to anything except the coordinates and cache name and (sometimes) the type of cache (I say sometimes because in many cases this is wrong, for example a puzzle cache marked as a traditional cache *grrrrrr*). sometimes you will also get the hint, but often only the first 50 characters (depending on your GPS).

 

so, when creating a cache that's dangerous, I'd suggest working that into the name somehow if at all possible (for example... "Cache on a Cliff Face" or something like that). even this isn't surefire, as people may only see the first part of the name, but it's better than nothing

Not true. (But I do agree that your "naming convention" as a good idea,)

 

The PDA is not the only way to "go mobile".

 

I have a full size laptop mounted in my vehicle, primarily for navigation using TOPO USA 6.0 and the Delorme USB GPSr. (This of course requires a mobile power supply if you intend to be out very long)

 

With this setup, there are several options, all of which allow one to have the entire cache pages (with exception of "all logs" option) as if being online.

 

In fact, going online in the field is possible in many locations using cellular data services.

 

i use all of these methods to one extent or another.

 

Method one:

1. PQ the entire area of interest once a week (or however often it appeals to you to do the work) obtaining a GPX file.

2. open the GPX with GSAK

3. Export the GPX file to TOPO so the icons can be shown on the map.

4. the latest version of GSAK has a "centre point by NMEA" feature- When you get near an icon on the map, you can click this menu item and GSAK centres on the cache nearest your location. (Delorme offers a FREE download called "Delorme serial emulator" that allows the data from the ir GPS to be "spit out" on up to three additional virtual com ports at the same time it is running in USB mode for the mapping software. IT IS VERY COOL)

5. GSAK, when updated with GPX files, shows the entire cache page with the exception of some pictures.

 

Method two: (I use this as a "quickie" to download info for virgin cache hunts)

1. Open Firefox® or the latest version of IE that has tabbed browsing capabilities.

2. Go to your pocket queries page and click the link or icon for online results.

3. Open each cache of interest in a new tab- this gives you the entire cache page exactly as if online (because you ARE online- duh)

4. Undock or unplug and take the laptop with you without shutting it down (hibernate or use a mobile power supply if the trip will likely exceed your battery life)

 

Method three: (depends on coverage issues and how much money you want to spend on airtime)

1. procure appropriate accessories to connect a cellphone to the laptop for data access- hopefully through a broadband wireless network (or use a specifically designed adapter for the laptop)

2. go online just as if you were sitting at home. (Good luck in the boonies!)