GPS Compass, needed or not

[+Mr_Mikey]

I am just getting started into Geocaching, I have been using a geko 101 primarily for being able to mark waypoints and the compass when out in the woods. I have found that a lot of the places the geocaching community have already marked for geocaching are also the same places and areas I like to go for my photography. So why not enjoy 2 activities at the same time.

My main question is that after reading the recomendations on this forum it sounds like the venture cx is extremely popular as well as affordable. The vista cx has a compass but is priced way outside my limits.

Why do the majority of gps units not have a compass ?

I quit carrying my old map compass when I got the geko 101.

Your thoughts on this will be greatly appreciated.

[+michigansnorkelers]

One problem is that the compass must be held horizontal to work, but the GPSr works best held in the vertical position.

 

I have a Garmin GPSMAP 60cs. At first (nine months ago), I used the compass all the time. Eventually I used it less and less, until now I hardly ever turn it on. It can be handy at times, but it's usefullness is overrated.

 

I have also gotten into trouble after changing the batteries and forgetting to recalibrate the compass. Talk about going on a wild goose chase then.

 

Also note that, at least on my unit, the compass came with the barometer/altimeter. Another toy I don't use but ended up paying for.

[+Cardinal Red]

Why do the majority of gps units not have a compass ?

 

Do you understand that at a minimum every GPS has a Pointer Screen. A Pointer Screen looks very much like a Compass. And acts like one as long as you are moving. An actual electrically powered Magnetic Compass will usually maintain accuracy while you are standing still. A Pointer Screen will not. But the actual Compass on my Garmin has gotten badly confused at times. Some times a recalibration helps. Some times I just turn the darn thing off.

 

Many Cachers who are well versed in Map use will tell you that you should forget the GPS Compass. Just carry a standard decent quality Compass that doesn't need batteries to operate (I always do carry one of those). Those users do not see any value in a GPS Compass and are not willing to pay extra for it if they don't have to. So the manufactures make them with and without.

 

I own several Garmins that have the actual GPS Compass. I don't carry Maps. I think the GPS Compass was worth the extra money. There have been many discussions about this topic. Those of us who have disagreed on this subject will continue to disagree in the future. The only way you will ever know what you think is to try one or own one. Owning will give you a better chance to thoroughly test it on several occasions while searching for a Geocache. My Compass has lead me to several Caches in very tough reception areas. Sometimes the results are not very good. But if you don't have one you don't even have the option to try it. And I have never actually used it for navigational purposes.

[+Wrong Way Ron]

You don't need a compass for Geocaching. If you get into hiking off trail then I would say get a GPS with a compass but if you hike the paths no need for a compass. I would say get what you want if money doesn't matter get the best. For fun get a cheap GPS

[+briansnat]

One problem is that the compass must be held horizontal to work, but the GPSr works best held in the vertical position.

 

Actually the eTrex unit that the OP mentioned works best held horizontally so there is no issue.

 

Why do the majority of gps units not have a compass ?

 

Nearly every handheld that I'm aware of has a compass. What many do not have is a magnetic compass. They use sats to determine direction. Some of the better models have a magnetic compass. While nice to have, this is not a necessity. A $10 handheld will do the trick nicely if you need a magnetic compass and you can save the extra $50 bucks (or whatever the difference is).

 

P.S. Don't quit carrying your compass. Batteries go dead on GPS units.

[Tahosa and Sons]

I have the Vista with a compass and only use it when I get close to where I want to go. I'll read the map, study the land and take off. The area I'm looking for has allready been programed as a waypoint and I'll do a go to at the last leg. But I always carry a topo map and a real compass but they are there just as a back up, because I have studied the route beforehand and usually know where I want to go.

[truello]

I find my electronic compass to be invaluable for those times when I'm moving under 10mph. If you ask me it's a ton easier to turn in one spot and have an arrow point to the cache than have to walk around in circles or straight paths trying to get the satellites to tell you what direction a cache is. I've experienced older GPS units with electronics compasses that complained if it wasn't perfectly horizontal but my Vista Cx seems to register the direction no problem even when almost at a 45 degree angle. It doesn't always work well in a car or house though, as it has too many distractions. But when in the woods it seems pretty accurate.

[+StarBrand]

"Need" - no. The compass pointer screen is more than adequate for geocaching.

 

Nice to have - not really - needs calibaration and is a bit flaky.

 

Should have a compass. Maybe - but only good if you know approx where you are and where you want to go.

 

My watch has a nice built in electronic compass and is on my wrist most of the time while caching. My walking stick has a small batteryless one. I sometimes have my pack with a standard compass in it. But I carry 2 GPSr's and spare batteries. and have never had to fall back on the compass.

[+Kryten]

My first GPS was an Etrex Summit which had a built in compass and so I became accustomed to it's behaviour.

I later borrowed a yellow Etrex and could not get used to having to wander around just to get the bearing to update. It's undoubtedly a luxuary that you can do without but it makes life so much easier. When I traded up to an 'x' series I went for the model with magnetic compass.

 

Inside a car it can get confused by the metalwork and give a reciprocal indication but that sorts itself out as soon as the car starts to move when it automatically switches over to satellite derived bearings. Outside the car it performs fine.

 

My one gripe is that the "Summit" knew when the batteries had been changed and would continually moan until it's compass had been recalibrated. The Map 60Csx powers up with it's new batteries and gives no indication that a re-cal would be a good idea.

 

Sometimes the re-cal makes no difference to the indicated bearing but sometimes the difference is huge and you could really make a big mistake. You have to get into the habbit of immediately doing a re-cal after a battery change.

[mich181189]

I usually carry my GPSr and a standard map compas. Not that there's anything I have against gps compases, I just don't have one. Plus, from what I hear they are not as accurate.

 

Quick tip: hold them as far apart as possible when taking a reading. I find my compas is affected by my garmin GPS III

[+Prime Suspect]

Once you enter the GPS's "error zone", both a handheld and electronic compass will appear "flakey". The difference is that people with a handheld compass will usually have stopped relying on it by this point. But since it's so easy to use on the GPS (you don't actually have to do anything), people rely on it far past the point when they should have turned it off and started looking for the cache. Thus, electronic compasses get an undeserved reputation for being unreliable, when it's generally good 'ol Operator Error that's to blame.

[+Mr_Mikey]

So far the compass in my Geko has been flawless (I always have spare batteries in my geko case).

After reading the responses it appears that the only correct thing to do is whatever works for that person.

The prices of a GPS with a compass far outweight the benefits of one without. I have usually used a compass in conjunction with a top map in trying to locate a specific area. SO the good old map compass will go back into the back pack and I will just look for a GPS that has more bells and whistles than the one I am using.

The venture CX and the explorist 210 seem to be the most recomended GPS on this forum. But I have time before the money is there so I will keep reading and learning until I buy one that will meet my needs.

I appreciate all the valuable information and cannot wait to start finding as well as placing caches in Northern Arizona.

[KABarash]

My GPS has a compass in it, big deal, It's there just for referance. I've seen people in the woods with GPS units completly LOST! My oponion is HAVE the basic knowledge first. As someone who's been involved in Scouting my entire life, (I'm 50) I've been using a compass since I was 10 years old, (big deal, you have to hold it level) As a Forester I carried one every day, as a Land Surveyor I apparently don't need one anymore, yet I still carry the same one with me everyday since I was 10 years old. Don't let the new technology fool you, Its NOT fool proof! You don't want to spend the money for a GPS unit with a compass, go to the local store and buy an inexpensive compass, buy an expensive one if you'd like it doesn't matter either will suit your needs, but have one, you'll be glad you do!

Edited March 27, 2007 by KABarash

[+Cardinal Red]

My GPS has a compass in it, big deal, It's there just for reference. I've seen people in the woods with GPS units completely LOST! My opinion is HAVE the basic knowledge first. As someone who's been involved in Scouting my entire life, (I'm 50) I've been using a compass since I was 10 years old, (big deal, you have to hold it level) As a Forester I carried one every day, as a Land Surveyor I apparently don't need one anymore, yet I still carry the same one with me everyday since I was 10 years old. Don't let the new technology fool you, Its NOT fool proof! You don't want to spend the money for a GPS unit with a compass, go to the local store and buy an inexpensive compass, buy an expensive one if you'd like it doesn't matter either will suit your needs, but have one, you'll be glad you do!

 

Again here is the great divide. Here is a backwoods navigator who was a surveyor. I accept that you are/were quite good at both. But you have a narrow concept of what a GPS Compass is capable of. It is not the same as your magnetic compass. Have you ever been in a situation where the Lat/Long is jumping around like crazy, or fading in and out, or both at a Cache site? Sometimes when you ask the Compass to guide you to the Cache under those circumstances (making several approaches from different directions) a potential GZ might becomes evident. Your handheld magnetic compass does not communicate with your GPS. It is different.

 

So if you have a very narrow view of what a GPS compass is capable of, don't buy this feature. If you expect 100% flawless performance from the GPS compass, don't buy this feature. If 30 seconds once or twice a day to recalibrate a GPS compass is too much bother, don't buy this feature.

 

Edit: After proofreading and editing I still found a problem I had to fix.

Edited March 27, 2007 by Cardinal Red

[+Prime Suspect]

Something that hasn't been mentioned is the Sight & Go capability. Don't know if Magellans have something comparable, but Garmin's with an electronic compass can do it. And the only reason they can, is because the compass is linked to the GPS, which lets the GPS know its orientation.

 

Oh, and the map display will automatically orient itself when you turn in place.

Edited March 27, 2007 by Prime Suspect

[+Renegade Knight]

"Need" - no. The compass pointer screen is more than adequate for geocaching.

 

Nice to have - not really - needs calibaration and is a bit flaky....

 

This has been my experience. If I buy another GPS I'd get the one without the electronic compass.

[KABarash]

 

So if you have a very narrow view of what a GPS compass is capable of, don't buy this feature. If you expect 100% flawless performance from the GPS compass, don't buy this feature. If 30 seconds once or twice a day to recalibrate a GPS compass is too much bother, don't buy this feature.

 

 

I wasn't saying that I have a "narrow view" of what a GPS compass can do I was saying that I have an "Old School" knowdedge of navigating maybe we all should remember the basics...... I've been with guys who can't even tell you where north is just by knowing what time of day it is, these guys are Surveyors (?) I've had kids in the Scout troop believe that having a GPS eliminates the need to learn basic land nav. by using map and compass, I actualy saying, YES have a compass, even if it IS a magnetic compass, I wouldn't rely just on the one in the GPS, electronics can fail or quit working leaving you possibly, lost.

 

Although I use sub-millimeter GPS stuff for locating stuff on the job I still have difficulities using this technology to navigate! I'll be the first to admit I have alot to learn, I was out today, made attempts at three local Caches only found 1 stage of a 5 part multi, nothing of the other two except foot prints in the mud near them!

Edited March 27, 2007 by KABarash

[+Mr_Mikey]

Just when I think I know what direction to take replacing my GPS, more good info comes up. I have spoken with a few other people that do have the compass in their GPS and they say they would not have one without it, no matter the cost.

So for the sake of more confusion, if I decide to get a GPS with a compass any recomendations as fas as which Garmin to get?

I have been told the vista cx is great, but it is also not very affordable at this point. Has anyone had any problems with factory refurbished or are these just a myth?

My goal is to replace mine by next weekend.

[+Alan2]

Something that hasn't been mentioned is the Sight & Go capability. Don't know if Magellans have something comparable, but Garmin's with an electronic compass can do it. And the only reason they can, is because the compass is linked to the GPS, which lets the GPS know its orientation.

 

Oh, and the map display will automatically orient itself when you turn in place.

PS good points. Since you brought it up, why not explain it so people can understand the advantages.

 

I also find that having the magnetic compass bult it frees up one hand to hold a walking stick or a tree.

[+Thrak]

I like the electronic compass because it will point to the cache even if I'm standing still. Otherwise I have to be moving at a reasonable speed in order for the arrow to point in the right direction. Yes, it does get confused once in a while. It takes all of about 15 seconds to recalibrate it so I don't see that as being a real issue.

[+Prime Suspect]

Something that hasn't been mentioned is the Sight & Go capability. Don't know if Magellans have something comparable, but Garmin's with an electronic compass can do it. And the only reason they can, is because the compass is linked to the GPS, which lets the GPS know its orientation.

 

Oh, and the map display will automatically orient itself when you turn in place.

PS good points. Since you brought it up, why not explain it so people can understand the advantages.

 

I also find that having the magnetic compass bult it frees up one hand to hold a walking stick or a tree.

Sight & Go is sort of like projecting a waypoint, but it's being projected to infinity, plus the use of course navigation.

 

Say you're on top of a hill, and you see a landmark off in the distance, and once you come down from the hill, you'll no longer be able to see the landmark. If you knew the distance, you could just project a waypoint to it. But you don't really have any idea how far it is. So you activate Sight & Go, and actually aim the GPS like a gun (Garmins that do Sight & Go have 2 alignment points on the face, though you may never have noticed them), putting your landmark in the sights and holding the GPS level. Then press the Enter button. At this point, you can do a regular projection, by entering a distance, if you know it, or Sight & Go, if you don't. Sight & Go starts a course navigation from your current position, passing through the landmark. Since you're using course navigation, the GPS will keep you on that line, even if you have to make temporary detours.

 

While it's possible to do something similar with a handheld compass, it's certainly more involved than the 1 button method available when the GPS and the compass can communicate with each other.