grand canyon overlook

[+Iowa Tom]

I wonder if they are going to watch for people dropping coins? A deep wishing well. How about the people that jump off cliffs with parachutes on their back? They might allow that for a price.

[X-isle]

I'm with the guy who says the pictures make him ill. I have a severe fear of heights, which is why rappeling is so stimulating. I'm not sure the view is worth $25 tho. I'm NA (Creek and Kiowa) on the roll, etc etc. And I like white people. Especially with a cream dill weed sauce and a squash casserole . I also have to agree with the person that said "the we's are all dead". Racism will cease to be an issue when race ceases to be a topic or a point of referrence. Frankly, I find the entire "Skywalk" concept weak and unimpressive. I could design a project that was more thrilling at a fraction of that $30 million price tag. How bout a zip line to the bottom? Eh? I see nothing wrong with a cache in the area, but not on the feature itself. Of course, if the tribe says no, I would heed that answer seriously. We could always save our money and build a skywalk on the otherside of the canyon, with a predominant geocache. And charge non cachers a fortune to walk on it.

[+Retcon]

If the cost were reasonable, I'd totally do a zipline into the Grand Canyon. It could end at that hotel/restaurant they have at the bottom that's totally not an eyesore.

[+MREAGLEWO1]

If the cost were reasonable, I'd totally do a zipline into the Grand Canyon. It could end at that hotel/restaurant they have at the bottom that's totally not an eyesore.

 

YOU ARE CRAZY.....LOL

[+leather-man]

The chance of getting tribal approval for a cache placement there are slim to none.

 

There is a connection to the earth in general and more specifically to tribal home lands that goes beyond the grasp of most of the dominant culture. The old timers will repeat the phrase "You can't sell the Earth any more than you can sell the air, for any price".

 

It would be like asking one of the members here to place a cache under their living room chair and opening their house to all that may come at all hours of the day or night. There may be some here that would think that would be a cool idea, but it would wear thin in a short time.

[+sbell111]

The chance of getting tribal approval for a cache placement there are slim to none.

 

There is a connection to the earth in general and more specifically to tribal home lands that goes beyond the grasp of most of the dominant culture. The old timers will repeat the phrase "You can't sell the Earth any more than you can sell the air, for any price".

 

It would be like asking one of the members here to place a cache under their living room chair and opening their house to all that may come at all hours of the day or night. There may be some here that would think that would be a cool idea, but it would wear thin in a short time.

I think that you are forgetting the fact that the tribe is already pimping their land. They built this 'bridge' to entice non-tribe members to come and give them big gobs of money. If they believed that a geocache would cause more people to come and give them money, they certainly might approve it. Frankly, if times are as tough as they are for the tribe in TAR's article, they'd be stupid not to approve it.

[+leather-man]

Then perhaps the way to get a cache approved there would be to get some of their tribal members interested in caching.

 

What they do with their land is none of my concern or business. There is no reason to use words like pimping to describe what another choses to do with their land.

[+sbell111]

Then perhaps the way to get a cache approved there would be to get some of their tribal members interested in caching.

Of course, that's the same advice that can be given to get approval from anyone to hide a cache anywhere.

What they do with their land is none of my concern or business.

Yet you seem to have pretty strong opinions about it.

There is no reason to use words like pimping to describe what another choses to do with their land.

I carefully chose the word because it was to be appropriate to the discussion.

[+rdaines]

I still 20th and 21st century Euro-Americans still suffer from looking at the preColumbian (I don't like the term Native American since humans are not native to the North American continent) populations as "Nobel Savages". Any non-industrialized culture will have a more respectful relationship with the land, air and water than that of an industrialized one simply because it is their one and only resource for survival. To suggest that North and South American Indians never did anything to deface or capitalize on local resources is wrong. Common practices included, mining, deforestation by cutting and burning, mass hunting, quarrying, and the construction of mound and stone cities. All of these things impacted the environment and sometimes ultimately led to the demise of the local culture. These cultures affected the land to the degree that their technologies allowed. Industrialized cultures have "better" technology and, therefore, have a great effect.

 

Having a casino or sky bridge on tribal land is not contrary to the culture but is to the "Nobel Savage" misconception.

[+Jhwk]

One word - Virtual.

 

see, is it really that hard? Unique location, not suitable for a "true" cache, but befitting a place of honor and distinction none-the-less.

 

yada yada yada

[+tozainamboku]

Common practices included, mining, deforestation by cutting and burning, mass hunting, quarrying, and the construction of mound and stone cities. All of these things impacted the environment and sometimes ultimately led to the demise of the local culture.

You left out grafitti

[+Renegade Knight]

The chance of getting tribal approval for a cache placement there are slim to none.

 

There is a connection to the earth in general and more specifically to tribal home lands that goes beyond the grasp of most of the dominant culture. The old timers will repeat the phrase "You can't sell the Earth any more than you can sell the air, for any price".

 

It would be like asking one of the members here to place a cache under their living room chair and opening their house to all that may come at all hours of the day or night. There may be some here that would think that would be a cool idea, but it would wear thin in a short time.

Variations on a theme.

Everone has a connection to their home lands. Some are more aware of it than others, but if it's there it's there in us all. Reading between the lines of what you said, the concept of asking to place a cache on tribal lands would be alien to anyone who called those lands home and anyone who didn't call it home would gather odd looks since they have their own home for such things and those lands are not the tribal lands.

 

That wasn't worded all that well, but I can't do better today.

[+Renegade Knight]

Then perhaps the way to get a cache approved there would be to get some of their tribal members interested in caching....

 

That works since locals are the best people to place caches to begin with. They can take care of them.

[Guyute1210]

Since the tribe is NOT nonprofit, wouldn't placing a cache there be forbidden b/c of the commercial cache placement rule?

[+Renegade Knight]

.....I think that you are forgetting the fact that the tribe is already pimping their land. ...

 

There is a big irony in your statement.

 

It's the concept that land has value that gave rise to "western civilization" but to achieve all that the lands had to be taken away from the tribes that first lived on them. When I say tribes I'm talking the Celts, Basques and others that lived in Europe first. Once taken lands were pimped ever since.

 

The USA is great at pimping lands and it's citizens are big on "Private Property". (The US Government is also great at pimping away personal rights for the sake of corporate profits.)

 

The irony comes from that caching does serve to connect us to the lands we live in. We see things we would not have, we come to see the nuances of nature, even in the urban world, and so on. The lands that we call home are comprised of a lot of public and private property and the feeling of "home" as you drive in from somewhere else doesn't really have a sence of those sharp boundaries.

 

In a real way the entire permission issue and the debate come from those of us who are a bit more tribal in our outlook. "We live here on these lands, we play on these lands, we love these lands, and so we have an interest in these lands that goes beyond mere private property, our lifetime of use and access has it's own value". vs. "No matter what else private property is an absolute right and the land owner is supreme".

 

The law is actually in the middle. We are beyond tribal where we all own the lands and we are not at the point where the land owner really is truly supreme and has absolute and total say on their lands.

Edited March 23, 2007 by Renegade Knight

[+Renegade Knight]

Since the tribe is NOT nonprofit, wouldn't placing a cache there be forbidden b/c of the commercial cache placement rule?

 

A Federally Recognized Tribe who has followed the laws laid down by congress for establishing their own government is a valid government and governments are not considered commercial. If they chose to place a cache it would not violate the commercial cache rules. That's true even if they have a commercial enterprise running the site such as the forest servcie does with campground and the NPS does with park facilites in some locations.