grand canyon overlook

[+Arndtwe]

well, the new grand canyon glass overlook finally opened. it's a glass "horseshoe" that suspends from the edge of the grand canyon, a 3/4 of a mile drop to the bottom. the overlook has a glass floor that you walk on and it has no supports from below. the project cost 30 million dollars, someone really needs to place a cache here. the hint could be dont drop me, it's a looooooooooong way down .

[+Super_Nate]

Sounds like an amazing place! I've never been to the Grand Canyon, but it is high on my to-do list! Haven't really done any research of that area, but is their an earthcache published in that area?

 

If you want to try to find a local of that area to possibly step forward and place one there, then post in this forum!

[+Harriet the Spy]

WoW that would be a cool spot for a cache!! I think its on an Indian Reservation so it would need permission from the tribe. They built it to draw as many tourists as possible, so I am sure they would be receptive to draw cachers!!

[+Arndtwe]

here are some pics. it's to new to have real pictures.

[+tozainamboku]

First, being on an Indian Reservation, this would require permission from the tribe in order to be approved. Second, it cost $25 per person to go out on the skyway, so a cache on the skyway itself may be seen as a commercial cache.

 

I personally think too many be people have the impression that a geocache should take you to a neat place. While the location is an important part of placing a geocache, it should not be the only reason for placing a geocache. I would probably decide to visit the skywalk for other reasons than because there is a cache there. I doubt I would drive out to a remote spot like this and spend $25 just to find a cache. If I were going there, however, it would be nice to be able to find a cache as well. But instead of hiding one on the skyway where there would be too many muggles, the cache would be difficult to maintain, and geocachers had to pay $25, I would hide the cache in a light pole in the parking lot where a cacher could make a quick grab and then go view the Grand Canyon from a unique vantage without having to worry about finding a cache a the same time.

[+Arndtwe]

heres a real one i found

[+Miragee]

WoW that would be a cool spot for a cache!! I think its on an Indian Reservation so it would need permission from the tribe. They built it to draw as many tourists as possible, so I am sure they would be receptive to draw cachers!!

Not to put a damper on your enthusiasm, but I wouldn't count on them letting you put a cache there.

 

Read the disclaimer on this Virtual cache,"Four Corners Monument," which is located on the Navajo Nation.

 

The monument is located entirely on Navajo Nation land, please respect their land and customs.

 

Indian Reservation. Their stance on Geocaching is basically our lands are sovereign and if you put a cache on them we will confiscate your GPS, Car, and charge you with trespassing. They made it pretty clear that they do not and will not allow cache placements on their lands!!! The reservation is a sovereign nation AND private property. Permits are required to enter the reservation. Remenber that the land around this Monument is reservation.

 

Remenber it is FEDERAL CRIME to remove anything from reservation land this includes indian pictograph, pottery pieces, stone, arrow heads, or anything else!!!!

Personally, I would rather visit the Grand Canyon in a less-crowded, undeveloped area.

[+Kealia]

I personally think too many be people have the impression that a geocache should take you to a neat place.

 

Am I taking this out of context or did you really mean to say that?

 

OT: NOT a good place for a cache. IMO this falls under the same guidelines as not putting them near bridges, etc. (Indian Reservation issues aside).

[+rdaines]

I've spent some time at the Navajo reservation in northern AZ and the about quote regarding Indian lands is accurate. They tolerate us when money is exchanging hands but other than that they would prefer non Indians be off their lands.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

. . .I personally think too many be people have the impression that a geocache should take you to a neat place. While the location is an important part of placing a geocache, it should not be the only reason for placing a geocache. . .

I agree. Some of my most popular Psycho Urban Caches (and one of my Psycho Backcountry Caches) take you to bizarre and decidedly hazardous and not-family-friendly spots such as:

• tiny, smelly and insect and rodent-infested toxic-waste-laden storm drains under old industrial areas (laden with unremediated EPA-listed toxic waste dumps) of an old industrial city
  
• a spot 30 feet up a lamppost located at a busy intersection in an old industrial city
  
• muddy debris-strewn islands overgrown with poison ivy and inhabited by aggressive geese in the middle of a nasty river prone to frequent and major flooding
  
• an abandoned nuclear reactor containment building, still radioactive and also laden with toxic chemical waste, and infested with rodents and fleas carrying plague and hantavirus
  
• the top of a crumbling 100 foot tall sheer vertical stone pier standing in the middle of a raging river; the spot is so inaccessible and access so difficult and dangerous that the cache was placed by helicopter.
  
• an eight foot deep toxic sludge waste pond filled with fluorescent yellow sludge and located at an unremediated Superfund toxic waste site located in an industrial wasteland on the border of an aging industrial city, on a road ominously named Quarantine Road (this one has not yet been completed...)
  
• the rusting steelwork of an abandoned railroad bridge located 134 feet above a raging river in a wilderness gorge where the average wind speed whipping through the gorge (and battering seekers climbing the steelwork) is almost 40 mph, and with frequent gusts to 80 mph.
  

Definitely not "neat places" and definitely not "family friendly".

 

[+Prime Suspect]

First, being on an Indian Reservation, this would require permission from the tribe in order to be approved. Second, it cost $25 per person to go out on the skyway, so a cache on the skyway itself may be seen as a commercial cache.

 

I personally think too many be people have the impression that a geocache should take you to a neat place. While the location is an important part of placing a geocache, it should not be the only reason for placing a geocache. I would probably decide to visit the skywalk for other reasons than because there is a cache there. I doubt I would drive out to a remote spot like this and spend $25 just to find a cache. If I were going there, however, it would be nice to be able to find a cache as well. But instead of hiding one on the skyway where there would be too many muggles, the cache would be difficult to maintain, and geocachers had to pay $25, I would hide the cache in a light pole in the parking lot where a cacher could make a quick grab and then go view the Grand Canyon from a unique vantage without having to worry about finding a cache a the same time.

 

$25? Try $75 instead. They first charge you $50 just to get in to the reservation.

[+KKTH3]

Tieing this in with the "decoy" thread... how about a decoy on the skywalk and the actual cache at river level directly below the skywalk?

 

Or better yet - a multi that starts on the skywalk, second stage by the river, final being that LPC in the parking lot by the skywalk entrance!!

 

Tons of great ideas here

[+Kit Fox]

I wouldn't look for it, on many accounts:

 

I refuse to pay that kind of money to view the Grand Canyon.

I won't support anything "tribal," especially their casinos.

[+Billy Goatee]

I think its an eyesore. Why ruin the place? Imagine all the structural codes they had to meet by drilling/concreting/rebaring/ the cliff face...

 

A sad day indeed...

 

And $25 a head? Even if it were free, I doubt I would visit.

[+Rockhound24]

I think its an eyesore. Why ruin the place? Imagine all the structural codes they had to meet by drilling/concreting/rebaring/ the cliff face...

 

A sad day indeed...

 

And $25 a head? Even if it were free, I doubt I would visit.

 

Indians seem to be against the rape of their land, unless they can make a buck off of it.

[+chuckwagon101]

$25? Try $75 instead. They first charge you $50 just to get in to the reservation.

 

Would this qualify as "counting coup" or "scalping" of those ............"palefaces"?????

[+Retcon]

Considering the raping of the land by "the white man" (every dam and bridge ever built, New York City, American Idol), I think a 25 foot walkway out over the Grand Canyon isn't all that big a deal.

[+fairyhoney]

Looks too scary for this cacher!

[+Renegade Knight]

Personally I think it's an excellent idea for a cache except for the muggle factor. The bridge itself is a great idea and the architect who did the concept posted above had the right idea for something that fit in as best it could.

 

Alas the politics of the tribe would keep me away. Parting me from my money at least inolves lip service to being somewhat respectull.

[+MREAGLEWO1]

i thought you cant have a cache where you must pay an admission fee to get to...

[+AlohaMatt]

Cache Name:

 

High probability of being muggled + Indian reservation =

 

Custer's Last Cache

[+Retcon]

i thought you cant have a cache where you must pay an admission fee to get to...

Untrue. I've paid to get into a park to get a cache that was listed as such. It was a very nice cache, too. I think the cost factor to get into the park helped keep those who would treat the cache poorly away. Plus, I had incentive to stick around and enjoy the park for a while.

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

Although I think the walkway is a neat idea I personally can not bring myself to trust my life to a piece of glass.

[+CYBret]

Although I think the walkway is a neat idea I personally can not bring myself to trust my life to a piece of glass.

 

What exactly are they making those windshields out of these days, Cap'n?

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

Although I think the walkway is a neat idea I personally can not bring myself to trust my life to a piece of glass.

 

What exactly are they making those windshields out of these days, Cap'n?

 

I don't walk on windshields over a thousand foot drop off.

[+wimseyguy]

Not only is it an absurd location for a cache, but the construction of the walkway itself is an ugly scar on the land. IMO it never should have been built, although I admire the engineering that made it possible.

Skycrapers and bridges in cities are totally different from a structure like this one.

[+Kealia]

Indians seem to be against the rape of their land, unless they can make a buck off of it.

 

Wow. That wins the prize for the most racist remark I've seen on here in quite a while.

I'm sure you wouldn't have replaced the word "Indians" with "blacks" or "mexicans" - I find it surprising that Indians tend to get bashed alot and those who would never think of bashing another race have no issue with it.

 

(Not to take the thread off-topic, but that was hard to pass up).

 

Untrue. I've paid to get into a park to get a cache that was listed as such. It was a very nice cache, too. I think the cost factor to get into the park helped keep those who would treat the cache poorly away. Plus, I had incentive to stick around and enjoy the park for a while.

 

(Bold added for emphasis).

Totally disagree with this - that's like saying that MOC have better swag and get trated better, etc. IT's just not true. Likely what happens is that people feel like they already dropped $25 to get in so they are less likely to drop nice swag. A cache is a cache and the masses are going to continue to behave in the way that they do regardless of any cost to access it.

 

Back on topic - I still think a cache here would be a bad idea. Imagine the secutiry around national monuments (for lack of a better word) already. Now, add a GPS and stealthy behavior to the mix and you're asking for trouble.

[+Renegade Knight]

i thought you cant have a cache where you must pay an admission fee to get to...

 

In this case I think that would be accurate. It's got backing from a Las Vegas Developer though it is tribal and that may make it akin to a park with an entrance fee. Looking at the photo's there is no place to put on on the skywalk. Plus the tribe is the Hualapai tribe. They may be more politically friendly.

 

http://news.com.com/2300-1008_3-6169001.ht...ll.latest.index

Edited March 22, 2007 by Renegade Knight

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Indians seem to be against the rape of their land, unless they can make a buck off of it.

Wow. That wins the prize for the most racist remark I've seen on here in quite a while.

I'm sure you wouldn't have replaced the word "Indians" with "blacks" or "mexicans" - I find it surprising that Indians tend to get bashed alot and those who would never think of bashing another race have no issue with it. . .

Kealia, I concur with your observation 110%. Thank you for taking time to notice this and to respond appropriately! I have actually noticed two somewhat racist statements made toward native Americans so far in this thread, and have found it disturbing.

[+Renegade Knight]

Indians seem to be against the rape of their land, unless they can make a buck off of it.

Wow. That wins the prize for the most racist remark I've seen on here in quite a while.

I'm sure you wouldn't have replaced the word "Indians" with "blacks" or "mexicans" - I find it surprising that Indians tend to get bashed alot and those who would never think of bashing another race have no issue with it. . .

Kealia, I concur with your observation 110%. Thank you for taking time to notice this and to respond appropriately! I have actually noticed two somewhat racist statements made toward native Americans so far in this thread, and have found it disturbing.

 

I am not going to automaticly jump on the racism bandwagon over a statement that I have heard since my early college days that relates to politics and hypocracy, and not race.

 

You guys need to make your case. I've heard it used in regards to most of the 3rd world, against most industrialists, corporations, developers, and Mexico in particular close to home.

[+Kealia]

Not sure there is a "case" to be made and I don't want to turn this thread into a race-war.

 

If the statement was directed at a particular tribe or a small group that would have been different. If he had said that the Hualapai tribe is known to ......... it would have been liekly more accurate. But, to lump all Indians into a generalization like that is wrong. Maybe it was a bad choice of words by the poster, I dunno.

 

I'm not calling HIM/HER a racist, just saying that the statement sounds really wrong.

 

Anyway, I'm typically thick-skinned and let most stuff run off my back, so I'm not overly PC.

heck, I live near Santa Cruz which is incredibly liberal........ok now I'm going way off topic.

 

Anyway, I looked at the pic that RK posted and it made my stomach turn.

[+Renegade Knight]

... - I find it surprising that Indians tend to get bashed alot and those who would never think of bashing another race have no issue with it....

 

Don't confuse race for politics. A lot of indians are represented by their Tribes who are recognized by the US government as Soverign Nations and who make waves while trying to find their way as a government.

 

Simple case in point.

I had a project. Build a bridge over a canal to replace the bridge that had outlived it's useful life. Simple? No.

Apparently it was very important for the tribes to stall out the project and debate weather or not the canal was in fact a river. Repeat things like this in a thousand ways and you can say with complete assurance what a royal PITA Tribes are to work with have it be a political statement. Because that's what it is. A new election with a new business council and it can all change. (My own city has a reputation for driving out business and anything good that was well earned. Calling my city nasty things hasn't elicited cries of racism though. Check out www.patheticpoctello.com, not every town inspires such websites).

 

I don't happen to like France all that much right now. That's not racism. It's a reaction to their reaction to the USA. Any one individual from France is of course excepted from my indictment of their nation because I’ll take them on their own merit. If they fall short and I don’t like them, that’s still not racism that’s character.

 

Racism is a strong word and people should figure out the why's of things before they make the final call on it.

Edited March 22, 2007 by Renegade Knight

[+Renegade Knight]

...

Edited March 22, 2007 by Renegade Knight

[+Team Dubbin]

it's to new to have real pictures.

 

Thats funny, I saw real pics of it a couple weeks ago. I'm thinking it was on MSN but I'm not too sure about that.

[crtrue]

I think its an eyesore. Why ruin the place? Imagine all the structural codes they had to meet by drilling/concreting/rebaring/ the cliff face...

 

A sad day indeed...

 

And $25 a head? Even if it were free, I doubt I would visit.

 

Indians seem to be against the rape of their land, unless they can make a buck off of it.

 

Yeah, with a 50% unemployment rate, I'm sure the word "compromise" doesn't come into play. This generates jobs and income. Nothing says we have to even visit the Grand Canyon -- they're simply taking advantage of a genuine interest in an area they own.

[+ArtieD]

I think its an eyesore. Why ruin the place? Imagine all the structural codes they had to meet by drilling/concreting/rebaring/ the cliff face...

 

A sad day indeed...

 

And $25 a head? Even if it were free, I doubt I would visit.

 

Indians seem to be against the rape of their land, unless they can make a buck off of it.

 

Yeah, with a 50% unemployment rate, I'm sure the word "compromise" doesn't come into play. This generates jobs and income. Nothing says we have to even visit the Grand Canyon -- they're simply taking advantage of a genuine interest in an area they own.

 

Now who's problem is it that there is such an unemployment rate? Theirs. Anyone can do anything they wish with the right motivation, and that doesn't include making an eyesore of a natural wonder.

[+Harriet the Spy]

When I originally posted that I thought it would be a good idea, i didn't think that a cacher would place it on the bridge but rather the surrounding complex/future park. The cache would be an added bonus to the visit to the skywalk, but not the draw itself. Much like doing a virt inside Disneyland, you don't go/pay for the virt but its one of the perks in visiting. I still think it would be a fun cache to have on my found list. I found a couple of current picutures.

[+Driver Carries Cache]

Indians seem to be against the rape of their land, unless they can make a buck off of it.

Wow. That wins the prize for the most racist remark I've seen on here in quite a while.

I'm sure you wouldn't have replaced the word "Indians" with "blacks" or "mexicans" - I find it surprising that Indians tend to get bashed alot and those who would never think of bashing another race have no issue with it. . .

Kealia, I concur with your observation 110%. Thank you for taking time to notice this and to respond appropriately! I have actually noticed two somewhat racist statements made toward native Americans so far in this thread, and have found it disturbing.

 

But if you replace it with "the white man" it slides through no problem...

 

Considering the raping of the land by "the white man" (every dam and bridge ever built, New York City, American Idol), I think a 25 foot walkway out over the Grand Canyon isn't all that big a deal.

 

That's awfully PC of us.

 

What it comes down to is that it's sovereign land and they can do with it as they wish. If they can capitalize on what they have and raise their standard of living through free enterprise, without help from the federal government... more power to em!

 

DCC

Edited March 22, 2007 by Driver Carries Cache

[vagabond]

It looks like they're not doing too bad.

 

click here

 

More power to them, although if I really wanted to see the Grand canyon Id head for the north rim and the Kaibab national forest, or even the more commercial Grand canyon village

Where the sky walk is will not give you a true idea of what the canyon is.

Edited March 22, 2007 by vagabond

[+leather-man]

As a half breed NA I find some of these posts pretty funny considering the lack of knowledge and understanding. The traditional native people have a totally different thought process when it comes to what poverty or success is.

 

Carry on.....

[+Harry Dolphin]

Lessee. This thread is about placing a cache on the 'bridge' on the rim of the canyon. (And not about racial epithets!)

As someone with a severe fear of heights, I get ill just looking at the pictures! I do not do railroad trestle caches! If I have something to hold on to, like a waist high wall, I'm okay. I love the Empire State Building, for instance, with the walls to hold on to. I hated the World Trade Center with the ceiling to floor glass.

Nope. You ain't getting my anywhere near that atrocity!

The worst part of our hike across the Grand Canyon (Twenty-eight miles in only four days!) was turning around to look at the trail just traversed to see that there was a thousand foot drop off the edge of the trail.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

As a half breed NA I find some of these posts pretty funny considering the lack of knowledge and understanding. The traditional native people have a totally different thought process when it comes to what poverty or success is.

 

Carry on.....

Apparently so! http://www.emayzine.com/lectures/indian.htm

 

In my experience riding motorcycles across the west in the '70s visitors aren't much wanted on 'sovereign lands'.

 

Since then I've been to a number of casinos on Indian lands, but never saw anyone invited away from the casino to tour the reservation.

 

Not a racist observation, just one of personal experience.

 

Admittedly I know nothing of this particular place, but I wouldn't go there for a cache.

[+Renegade Knight]

As a half breed NA I find some of these posts pretty funny considering the lack of knowledge and understanding. The traditional native people have a totally different thought process when it comes to what poverty or success is.

 

Carry on.....

 

Thanks for clarifying that.

[+rdaines]

As a half breed NA I find some of these posts pretty funny considering the lack of knowledge and understanding. The traditional native people have a totally different thought process when it comes to what poverty or success is.

 

Carry on.....

 

There is a lot of truth in the above statement. Western society places a lot of value on possessions and accumulated wealth. I visited with Navajo families living in Canyon de Chelly who, by Western standards, were dirt poor and subsisted by growing corn, squash and other crops. Through in selling a few trinkets to tourists and that was it. These people were neither culturally nor spiritually poor but just the opposite. Practicing a way of life that goes back thousands of years is something the many of us will never know. Yes, they do not want us on there lands for obvious reasons, we've taken everything else and they will use us as they see fit when acquiring money. I accept such treatment from them and the fact that it bothers me doesn't phase them in the least because I am not one of them. That's just the way it is, I am not of their Race/Culture. Racism (the modern, PC definition) has nothing to do with it.

 

Apologized for the OT post.

[+Retcon]

But if you replace it with "the white man" it slides through no problem...

 

Considering the raping of the land by "the white man" (every dam and bridge ever built, New York City, American Idol), I think a 25 foot walkway out over the Grand Canyon isn't all that big a deal.

 

Amusing that you tried to show the hypocracy in my statement, when it was intended to show hypocracy in the original statement.

 

Back on topic, I this this the bridge is great. I would even consider paying the $25 to go on it. Now, if it's true that you need an additional $50 to get there, well... It's not that cool.

[+Iowa Tom]

I think I will change the goal of my The Grand Canyon in 3D Traveling Cache TB to "take two pictures off that sky walk. Two shots taken straight down with a 20 foot separation might give some depth.

 

It nearly made it to the Canyon once but then got hauled off by a person that didn't read the goal tag. At least it's back in AZ now.

[+Renegade Knight]

.... we've taken everything else and they will use us as they see fit when acquiring money. ...

 

The we you are talking about are all dead. I think that's an important point. The entire generic blame thing just doesn't sit well with me. It does seem important to other folks though.

[+CYBret]

So....the topic's the Grand Canyon Overlook....right?

[+Renegade Knight]

So....the topic's the Grand Canyon Overlook....right?

Putting a cache near it. If the fee would make it commercial, if the tribe would welcome it, if people would seek it. If it's a worthy spot for a cache, the the tribe also charge for access to the reservation. If it's a blight on the land, a unique marvel, or just a money grubbing way to fleece non tribe members.

 

To answer your rhetorical question.

Edited March 23, 2007 by Renegade Knight

[+CYBret]

Rhetorical, huh?