I Need Some Advice.........

[+sparkeeeee]

I have a situation I would like to share with you, in hopes that I might get some advice.

 

I have recently become a geocacher. (Within the past year)

 

I am still learning many wonderful things about geocaching. I've also become a bit of a coin collector.

 

I recently won (in an auction on "that" place) a geocoin which I desired. (obviously)

 

I realized (after I had won the auction, of course) that the coin had been previously activated. Apparently it was listed in microscopic print on the page. Yes I understand "Caveat Emptor," and am not necessarily complaining about the fact that I did not pay attention. The fact that it is activated bothers me a little, but hey, not a big deal. I like the coin. What really bothers me is what happened next.

 

Keep in mind this is a ROT 13 coin. Generic "GCC" icon.

 

I had read in the Geocoin forum that deleting logs did not have an negative impact on those who had previously logged the coin. It was my understanding that they got to keep the count and the icon, (I may be mistaken about this) so I deleted seven logs associated with the coin. (Referrence topic: Deleting Geocoin Logs)

 

Today I opened my e-mail to find a somewhat rude and nasty letter from someone who's log I had deleted.

 

He/she/they explained that this is frowned upon. I have no problem with that. It was nice to "learn" this. Then they went on to berate me even more. They went on to wail about their loss of icon. (Remember that this is the "generic GCC" icon of which they have 13) Then they said they were going to "come to the forums" and tell people all about what I had done to them.

 

Then, five minutes later, they sent additional e-mail telling me that "Unless you send me the tag to relog my find," they were going to track down all my the people with whom I have "finds" and tell people that they should delete all my "finds."

 

My quandry is this:

 

Had they simply been kind enough to explain all this to the "noob," in a kind and gracious manner, I would have been happy to help them and any other I may have offended. As it is, with the childish way in which they have behaved, (extortion/threats/beratement) I feel like telling them to go "Pound sand."

 

What would you do?

Edited March 19, 2007 by sparkeeeee

[+BlueDeuce]

People can be jerks, but you would have left the finds had you've known better. Take the higher road.

[+Windrose]

Well, while I understand their point of view, there's no need to be rude about it. And no need to get bent out of shape, it's not even a unique icon. Threats tend to make me do the opposite of what the person wants. So I would tell them "Sorry you feel that way. Have a nice day." But I wouldn't let them log the coin again.

 

Bottom line - it's your coin now to do with as you please. If they want to get upset, they should be upset with the person who sold you the coin. It was "their" coin they logged, not yours.

 

Windrose

[CinemaBoxers]

Well, while I understand their point of view, there's no need to be rude about it. And no need to get bent out of shape, it's not even a unique icon. Threats tend to make me do the opposite of what the person wants. So I would tell them "Sorry you feel that way. Have a nice day." But I wouldn't let them log the coin again.

 

Bottom line - it's your coin now to do with as you please. If they want to get upset, they should be upset with the person who sold you the coin. It was "their" coin they logged, not yours.

 

Windrose

Yeah! What she said!

 

~J

[CinemaBoxers]

And...

 

I would forward that email to the good folks at Groundspeak - That sounds like abuse and harassment. They tend to frown on that.

 

Geez... And to think some of us do this for fun. Glad there's no "Icon Quotas"!

 

~J

[+501_Gang]

And...

 

I would forward that email to the good folks at Groundspeak - That sounds like abuse and harassment. They tend to frown on that.

 

Geez... And to think some of us do this for fun. Glad there's no "Icon Quotas"!

 

~J

 

I agree with both post above. Make sure GC see the email(s) and see what they think.

[ParentsofSAM]

Some people can just ruin all the fun.

 

I would just ignore them and move on with my happy life. They have too much time on their hands.

 

I do think you should forward the email to the Groundspeak Abuse email.

[+Renegade Knight]

In their shoes:

 

First I'd email and ask why you deleted my log.

 

When you explained that you deleted it to have a fresh start I'd let you know it's very rude to do that since it deletes the coins history and of course more imporatnly to me my own personal history in geocaching. I'd probalby ask if I can re-log just like they did.

 

If at that point you proved to be hell bent on deleting all the logs I'd probably give up on effort because you would not be worth the trouble.

 

In your shoes.

 

Since I already know about the issue with deleting the logs I wouldn't have. But if I did and they explained like they did I may realize the error of my ways and come to believe like i do now and I'd email them the code. That is what I'd do right up until the second email.

 

From that point I'd send out an appology to the other folks who's logs I deleted and send them the code. Then I'd email the first folks and thank them for letting you know that deleting the logs was frowned upon. Then I'd let them know that threats are also frouwned upon and so there will be no code and they should go do what they need to do to make their lives matter on this planet.

 

Somethhing like that anyway.

[+Hula Bum]

Personally if it were me I would NOT give it back to them, just because of their nasty attitude about it. But, I'm like that.... I would also send it to GS, from the way it sounds they are way out of line.

Looks like I need to change my sig line again. "It's an Icon, not a kidney", goodness gracious it's getting ridiculous.

[+plumbrokeacres]

That's way out of Line. Forward the email to Groundspeak. The coin is yours to with as you wish.

For me personally I wouldn't have deleted the logs after all they are part of the coins history. and I like to see where they've been. But having said that it is still your coin now.

[Team Macha]

I agree with most of the people. I am usually happy do things for people when they ask nicely but when they get mean and nasty and start the name calling stuff, I tend to not see the need to help them anymore. So I guess if I was you after recieving the second email I would tell to get a life. like hula bum said its just a coin/icon not the end of the world.

[+AtlantaGal]

I didn't really pay attention to the other thread or I would have mentioned that the icon (or find) is lost when a log is deleted.

 

With that said, I do think it's a shame that the person was nasty to you about it. However, I'm also the type of person who would just send them the number and let them log it simply out of good will, especially if I intended the coin to be shared anyway. But it's your coin and you're free to do whatever you please with it.

Edited March 19, 2007 by AtlantaGal

[+jAY miLLS]

You clearly wanted a clean slate on your coin and I personally don't see a problem with that. Its your coin to do what you want. Don't be bullied or guilted into doing something you don't want to do. Just my 2 generic coins worth.

[+LadyBee4T]

Well, while I understand their point of view, there's no need to be rude about it. And no need to get bent out of shape, it's not even a unique icon. Threats tend to make me do the opposite of what the person wants. So I would tell them "Sorry you feel that way. Have a nice day." But I wouldn't let them log the coin again.

 

Bottom line - it's your coin now to do with as you please. If they want to get upset, they should be upset with the person who sold you the coin. It was "their" coin they logged, not yours.

 

Windrose

 

 

I agree wholeheartedly with windrose. Its your coin and if you want it to have a clean slate then delete all the logs. These people are out of line and I wouldn't even bother answering them. There is no need to apologize to others about what you do with your OWN property. If they want to get mean and nasty they should take it up with the previous owner of the coin as someone else said.

 

You don't know them so so you want them to log YOUR coin? If not don't give thme the code and definitely forward those emails to abuse...

[ATMouse]

Spark^5e, there are idjits all over and this one proves it. Do what makes you happy. Life is too short for this kind of foolishness.

 

 

But I would forward the email to TPTB.

[+sparkeeeee]

Spark^5e, there are idjits all over and this one proves it. Do what makes you happy. Life is too short for this kind of foolishness.

But I would forward the email to TPTB.

 

Thanks for all the replies so far. I wouldn't mind if more people weighed in on this. I am still undecided on what to do........

 

The idea that they would start e-mailing people and saying nasty things about me really bothers me..... I looked into some previous posts, and apparently this is not the first time this has occurred. There have been "threats" before.....

Edited March 19, 2007 by sparkeeeee

[+Renegade Knight]

...There have been "threats" before.....

Apparently threats are working for them so they repeat the behavior. Why feed what you don't like? 3rd parties that get involved can be pointed to this thread.

[+Windrose]

Well I agree with everyone else and say that you should definately report them to TPTB, and I would send them an email letting them know that threats are not allowed and that you have reported them to gc.com administration. The situation might resolve itself. (i.e. They will back off, or TPTB will tell them to stop, or TPTB will ban them.)

 

Windrose

[+Kealia]

Do what you either want to do, or feel is right to do.

 

Not what you feel you have to do or are somehow being forced/scared into doing.

 

 

Edit: for clarity.

Edited March 19, 2007 by kealia

[+Go JayBee]

I agreee with RK...

 

If it were my log, I'd send a very innocent email asking why it was deleted.

 

 

If after being told of their mis-conception, I'd try to explain how the history could possibly make the coin that much more interesting, and politely ask to re-log it.

 

 

If the response were negative, I might just send back a "you play your game, I'll play mine..." and just chaulk it up to a bad experience.

[+D@nim@l]

This is a very interesting topic.

 

I would like to unload some of my activated coins for cash (see my trackables and make offer if interested), but some of them do have a history attached. I didn't think that this would go over too well on ebay and I would want to avoid this specific situation if the coin were adopted. I agree with the sentiment that once that coin gets handed over it's your to do as you please, but icon woerhs can be like that sometimes, though.

 

D

Edited March 19, 2007 by D@nim@l

[+ScoutingWV]

Interesting topic ...

 

When someone adopts a cache, do they delete all of the logs and start over?

 

Once a coin is activated, you can't un-activate it and make it pristine again. Why not just state your new ownership of the coin as a note in the coin's logs and go on from there? Aren't they all part of the coins history?

 

I really see both sides of this, but I wonder what the harm is in leaving the logs there?

[+Hula Bum]

I could see wanting to start with a clean slate if I were going to release it.

[+Renegade Knight]

For those who care:

 

Owning a coin and owning the coins tracking are two different things. Most of the time it's the same person. Some times though it's not.

 

Moun10bike retains his tracking even if he gives you the coin.

[+sparkeeeee]

For those who care:

 

Owning a coin and owning the coins tracking are two different things. Most of the time it's the same person. Some times though it's not.

 

Moun10bike retains his tracking even if he gives you the coin.

 

My understanding is that Moun10bike doesn't sell his coins at a profit.............a nice one at that.

Edited March 19, 2007 by sparkeeeee

[+nicolo]

DOH!

Edited March 19, 2007 by nicolo

[+nicolo]

Well I agree with everyone else and say that you should definately report them to TPTB, and I would send them an email letting them know that threats are not allowed and that you have reported them to gc.com administration. The situation might resolve itself. (i.e. They will back off, or TPTB will tell them to stop, or TPTB will ban them.)

 

Windrose

What she said, and NO WAY I'd send the code to them.

 

I bought a GeoWoodstock III coin for mucho dinero, only to realize that it had already been activated. It was my fault, I should've looked better. So I just sucked it up and kept the coin, without deleting any history that the coin had.

[glennk721]

Interesting. I traded for a coin I knew was activated, I just left the logs in place, really did not matter to me that they were there. It was the coin I wanted and had interesting history of cachers holding appreciating this coin before me. . Perhaps place a note on the coin page with history about how you attained it from Ebay, , as well a copy of this forum thread as a link, If you delete the logs, folks can come looking why,

 

This harassment is a different story indeed, this is a friendly game and should remain so , CC emails to Groundspeak. These folks need to get a life, and lighten up .. Glenn

[Not So Lost Puppies]

For those who care:

 

Owning a coin and owning the coins tracking are two different things. Most of the time it's the same person. Some times though it's not.

 

Moun10bike retains his tracking even if he gives you the coin.

 

My understanding is that Moun10bike doesn't sell his coins at a profit.............a nice one at that.

 

Correct, he does not sell his coins, and doesn't want others to sell them either, but he doesn't stop the sales of them either. But he does stay as the coins 'owner' at GC, so others are not able to clear any past history of the coin. I know afew others have done the same with their personal coins as well, distribute them as activated and retain the GC ownership and control over the deleting of logs and changing text.

[+sparkeeeee]

For those who care:

 

Owning a coin and owning the coins tracking are two different things. Most of the time it's the same person. Some times though it's not.

 

Moun10bike retains his tracking even if he gives you the coin.

 

My understanding is that Moun10bike doesn't sell his coins at a profit.............a nice one at that.

 

Correct, he does not sell his coins, and doesn't want others to sell them either, but he doesn't stop the sales of them either. But he does stay as the coins 'owner' at GC, so others are not able to clear any past history of the coin. I know afew others have done the same with their personal coins as well, distribute them as activated and retain the GC ownership and control over the deleting of logs and changing text.

 

If that is the case, (and I believe it to be so as well) then wouldn't a sending of an adoption request (as part of the selling process), and the acceptance of an adoption request on my part imply that the logs are mine to do with as I please, just as Moun10bike is so able? (just a "legal" thought)

 

I would like to note, for the record.....

 

"Had they simply been kind enough to explain all this to the "noob," in a kind and gracious manner, I would have been happy to help them and any other I may have offended......"

 

(Quoted from the original post, now enboldened in original post)

Edited March 19, 2007 by sparkeeeee

[keewee01]

In their shoes:

 

First I'd email and ask why you deleted my log.

 

When you explained that you deleted it to have a fresh start I'd let you know it's very rude to do that since it deletes the coins history and of course more imporatnly to me my own personal history in geocaching. I'd probalby ask if I can re-log just like they did.

 

If at that point you proved to be hell bent on deleting all the logs I'd probably give up on effort because you would not be worth the trouble.

 

In your shoes.

 

Since I already know about the issue with deleting the logs I wouldn't have. But if I did and they explained like they did I may realize the error of my ways and come to believe like i do now and I'd email them the code. That is what I'd do right up until the second email.

 

From that point I'd send out an appology to the other folks who's logs I deleted and send them the code. Then I'd email the first folks and thank them for letting you know that deleting the logs was frowned upon. Then I'd let them know that threats are also frouwned upon and so there will be no code and they should go do what they need to do to make their lives matter on this planet.

 

Somethhing like that anyway.

 

Good response RK!

[Not So Lost Puppies]

For those who care:

 

Owning a coin and owning the coins tracking are two different things. Most of the time it's the same person. Some times though it's not.

 

Moun10bike retains his tracking even if he gives you the coin.

 

My understanding is that Moun10bike doesn't sell his coins at a profit.............a nice one at that.

 

Correct, he does not sell his coins, and doesn't want others to sell them either, but he doesn't stop the sales of them either. But he does stay as the coins 'owner' at GC, so others are not able to clear any past history of the coin. I know afew others have done the same with their personal coins as well, distribute them as activated and retain the GC ownership and control over the deleting of logs and changing text.

 

If that is the case, (and I believe it to be so as well) then wouldn't a sending of an adoption request (as part of the selling process), and the acceptance of an adoption request on my part imply that the logs are mine to do with as I please, just as Moun10bike is so able? (just a "legal" thought)

 

I would like to note, for the record.....

 

"Had they simply been kind enough to explain all this to the "noob," in a kind and gracious manner, I would have been happy to help them and any other I may have offended......"

 

(Quoted from the original post, now enboldened in original post)

 

Yes, you are correct, you bought the physical coin, and went through the official adoption of the coin on the GC site, it, as well as its history is yours to do with as you wish.

 

I agree with the other posts along those same lines. While it may be frowned upon, you didn't know it would remove their icon, and it sounds like you wouldn't have done it if you knew. It is still your right as the coins owner to remove all prior logs, and if they have a problem with that they should contact the original owner (you could mention the prior owners name on the coin's page for their reference) who is responsible for the sale of the coin.

 

And also agree that threatening messages should be reported.

[+MustangJoni]

I've had my logs deleted on coins when they were sold then adopted. Really didn't bother me. On several of them, I lost the icon.

 

It just isn't that big of a deal to me.

[+Cheesy pigs]

My 2 cents worth -

 

Report the threatening emails.

 

Unlike a cache that sits in its place and is there for the sole purpose of being logged, a coin can be traded, kept, sent off as a traveller etc. You bought this coin. It is yours. Do with it as you will.

 

If it had a really nice icon, I probably would let other people keep their logs on it, but as its just a generic, I really dont see why they are making such a fuss.

[+Renegade Knight]

.....It is still your right as the coins owner to remove all prior logs, and if they have a problem with that they should contact the original owner...

 

It is the new owners right (still frowned upon though) but the only owner that can do anything about an issue is the current one. The past one may be sympathetic, may wish to restore the logs but they are powerless. Thus all complaints when it comes to fixing logs...need to go to the present owner.

[57chevy]

Personally if it were me I would NOT give it back to them, just because of their nasty attitude about it. But, I'm like that.... I would also send it to GS, from the way it sounds they are way out of line...

 

Exactly!!! What she said! I personally would have added the "Pound sand...." comment also. Repeatedly most likely. Especially if they already have the icon. Some folks sure get their panties in a wad about some of the smallest stuff.

 

**** Let Me Clarify the above comment... If someone would have nicely asked me to let them re-log the coin for the icon, I would have done so cheerfully, but... had they failed the attitude test as you stated they did, I would have been most reluctant. ****

Edited March 20, 2007 by 57chevy

[+WWC-World's Worst Cacher]

Hmm. This is a hard decision respond to bad behavior with what is deserved or what is right. I am thinking the guy found the coin legitimately and so should be allowed to relog it. But I guess I would have asked them why they are being so rude.

 

But the thing is . . . and we see it here in the forums frequently, when sitting at a computer writing words people will often say things they would never really say to anyone face to face.

 

It is why I have so often gone back read a post I wrote, and thought, "gosh that is just downright mean spirited" and wiped it out.

 

My thoughts give him the tag and move on. Life is to short.

[YemonYime]

I would have to agree that by disagreeing with those who agree to disagree is agreeable to all disagreeable parties.

[+Colorado Cacher]

I agree with most of the people. I am usually happy do things for people when they ask nicely but when they get mean and nasty and start the name calling stuff, I tend to not see the need to help them anymore. So I guess if I was you after recieving the second email I would tell to get a life. like hula bum said its just a coin/icon not the end of the world.

 

Ditto!

[+Geocaching-Geckos]

Sparkeeeee - I had the exact same problem. I removed the logs from one of my geocoins and received some very rude & threatening e-mails. These "cachers" had cached my tracking number and started trading it back and forth and re-adding logs to the geocoin. I just let GC know about the problem, along with a copy of the e-mails, and it came to a complete stop.

 

Different people play the game differently, that's for sure! But, like others have said - it is your coin to do with as you please. Don't cave!

 

 

I have a situation I would like to share with you, in hopes that I might get some advice.

 

I have recently become a geocacher. (Within the past year)

 

I am still learning many wonderful things about geocaching. I've also become a bit of a coin collector.

 

I recently won (in an auction on "that" place) a geocoin which I desired. (obviously)

 

I realized (after I had won the auction, of course) that the coin had been previously activated. Apparently it was listed in microscopic print on the page. Yes I understand "Caveat Emptor," and am not necessarily complaining about the fact that I did not pay attention. The fact that it is activated bothers me a little, but hey, not a big deal. I like the coin. What really bothers me is what happened next.

 

Keep in mind this is a ROT 13 coin. Generic "GCC" icon.

 

I had read in the Geocoin forum that deleting logs did not have an negative impact on those who had previously logged the coin. It was my understanding that they got to keep the count and the icon, (I may be mistaken about this) so I deleted seven logs associated with the coin. (Referrence topic: Deleting Geocoin Logs)

 

Today I opened my e-mail to find a somewhat rude and nasty letter from someone who's log I had deleted.

 

He/she/they explained that this is frowned upon. I have no problem with that. It was nice to "learn" this. Then they went on to berate me even more. They went on to wail about their loss of icon. (Remember that this is the "generic GCC" icon of which they have 13) Then they said they were going to "come to the forums" and tell people all about what I had done to them.

 

Then, five minutes later, they sent additional e-mail telling me that "Unless you send me the tag to relog my find," they were going to track down all my the people with whom I have "finds" and tell people that they should delete all my "finds."

 

My quandry is this:

 

Had they simply been kind enough to explain all this to the "noob," in a kind and gracious manner, I would have been happy to help them and any other I may have offended. As it is, with the childish way in which they have behaved, (extortion/threats/beratement) I feel like telling them to go "Pound sand."

 

What would you do?

[+Frozen Buns]

move n and enjoy YOUR coin, it isn't even a unique icon and this is all about having fun and enjoyment

[Jake - Team A.I.]

For future reference...

 

Perhaps it would be best to ask if the seller of the coin could clear the logs before they adopt the coin out. The log clearing could be an option in the adoption process for the coin. That way the coin seller would be the one receiving complaints about deleted logs, and not the buyer. Chances are, at some point the seller has met the cachers whose logs were deleted, and I bet they'd be more courteous to someone they know.

[+plumbrokeacres]

I have a related question, If I were to buy an activated coin would the logs have to be removed in order to adopt it? I've never Adopted a coin (nervous about buying one never know if it has been stolen from a cache).

[+BlueDeuce]

I have a related question, If I were to buy an activated coin would the logs have to be removed in order to adopt it? I've never Adopted a coin (nervous about buying one never know if it has been stolen from a cache).

 

No, you don't have to remove logs or have them removed to adopt a coin. And it should be made clear prior to the purchase if the coin has been circulated.

 

You can always ask for the reference number before the transaction is complete to verify the logs.

[+Hula Bum]

I have a related question, If I were to buy an activated coin would the logs have to be removed in order to adopt it? I've never Adopted a coin (nervous about buying one never know if it has been stolen from a cache).

 

Also make sure that if it is activated that the person you are buying it from is the "owner" of the coin on the coin page. T If their name isn't the owner, then you don't want to buy it.