To DNF or not?

[+J-Way]

I went searching for 4 caches today, two each at two Interstate rest stops. I was actually going specifically for one at each rest stop, and the others were just because I was there anyway.

 

At the first rest area I spent an hour looking for an easy regular cache. It's listed as a "2", it had been checked by the owner 5 days earlier, and it hasn't had a DNF for about 2 years. I used the clue and even went back to my truck to get my back-up GPSr with no luck. After giving up, I quickly located the micro in the same area, noticing that two people had logged the micro after the maintenance check on the regular. When I logged the day's events online, I noticed that the two people who found the micro did NOT log DNF's on the regular. It's possible that they simply decided to search for the micro and ignore the regular cache (with a Jeep, a unique coin, and several other TB's), but I find that hard to believe. I would have still searched for the cache, but I would not have wasted an hour if there were already two DNF's listed.

 

The second rest stop is brand-new and recently opened, immediately followed by two back-to-back caches placed there. The first has been found several times in the few days it's been in place. The second has no logs of any kind, in spite of several people visiting the first one after the second was published. Granted, the second is a members only cache, but there are LOTS of members around here including some of the people visiting the first cache. I can't believe people were just letting a potential FTF just lie there ignored... The problem with the second is that either the coordinates are WAY off, or the recent rains have turned the last several hundred feet to the cache into a swamp requiring waders to get there. Either way, anyone who attempted the cache should have reported on the potential problems.

 

Just a little ranting while waiting on my shoes to dry...

 

Jason

[+TexasGringo]

Maybe they are embarrased to log a DNF.

[+QSparrow]

Or maybe they're waiting for permission from the owners to log a find.

[+TrailGators]

Or maybe they're waiting for permission from the owners to log a find.

Hmmm, where have I read that recently?

[+Always & Forever 5]

Or maybe they're waiting for permission from the owners to log a find.

Oh, cripes...here we go again.

 

But, seriously, you think it should be a REQUIREMENT to log a DNF if you searched and didn't find??? I suppose you can find THAT one in the 'rules' somewhere, hmmm?

[+Always & Forever 5]

Edited to remove double post.

Edited March 17, 2007 by Always & Forever 5

[+QSparrow]

But, seriously, you think it should be a REQUIREMENT to log a DNF if you searched and didn't find??? I suppose you can find THAT one in the 'rules' somewhere, hmmm?

Nope.

Edited March 17, 2007 by QSparrow

[+wavector]

I can't believe people were just letting a potential FTF just lie there ignored...

 

There are always a lot of cachers who are not willing to log a DNF.

I think many are concerned with what the record might say about them and they don't worry about the record itself. I have heard a lot of reasons for not logging DNF's.

If you go geocaching you will DNF on a regular basis. At some point you will be able to figure out exactly how often you don't find a cache, you can translate that to a percentage and now you have a very reliable yardstick, comparing DNF rates with other cachers can be fun. The geocachers you encountered at a distance today, through their lack of DNF logs, are not uncommon. Did you know that there are cachers who have never DNF'ed a cache?

 

I saw a log that read like this the other day;

"Finally found this cache. I have been here many times and I am so glad to find this cache."

It was that persons only log on the cache.

Needless to say the cache is known as a tough one and logging a DNF wouldn't have provided any feed back beyond making the record of the seeker more complete. He missed out on the chance to record his adventures.

[+Totem Clan]

 

But, seriously, you think it should be a REQUIREMENT to log a DNF if you searched and didn't find??? I suppose you can find THAT one in the 'rules' somewhere, hmmm?

It wasn't directed at me but I'll answer it if you don't mind.

 

NO

 

It should not be a REQUIREMENT, but logging DNFs is a good thing to do for the owner and other cachers.

[+J-Way]

Oh, cripes...here we go again.

But, seriously, you think it should be a REQUIREMENT to log a DNF if you searched and didn't find??? I suppose you can find THAT one in the 'rules' somewhere, hmmm?

Of COURSE it's not, and should not be, a requirement to log a DNF. I was mainly ranting because of the wasted time and because I had wet feet (from trying to find a path through the swamp). It's even possible that no one even attempted the catches I couldn't find. But I still believe that other people failed to find those caches and didn't report the DNF, which could have saved me lots of time and wet feet.

 

And yes, logging a DNF is a subjective matter. I won't log a DNF if I don't have enough time to give the area more than a rudimentary search, or if it's one of many repeated searches (I'll log the first DNF, then I won't log the repeat searches unless I'm confident something is wrong, which has happened twice - once the cache was muggled and once the coords were off by about 100-ft).

 

But, if you can't find a supposedly easy cache, then it's simply the decent thing to report the DNF because it might have been stolen. I couldn't find the first cache and therefore logged the first DNF for that cache in almost exactly two years. Maybe the cache is still there and I just missed it... so what? I'm still fairly new at this and I'm always learning new things.

 

Also, if there are obvious problems with a cache location, then you should report it to the owner (or indicate the problem in a DNF log) so the problems can be fixed. Please note that this does NOT include GPSr precision complaints like "Your coordinates are off by 20 feet!!! Were you drunk when you logged them????". I own a grand total of one (1) cache, but I know that I'd appreciate it if someone let me know that something was wrong with an email or a DNF log before more people waste their time looking for it.

 

Sorry, yet more ranting. My shoes aren't dry yet.

 

Jason

[+StarBrand]

If you looked and did not find (even for just a minute or 2) or even 10 different visits - IMHO, you should log each attempt as a DNF. Logs tell a story, DNF stories have value too.

 

A DNF log type DOES NOT mean that something is wrong with the cache. If you can't find it, don't make some weird leap of logic to conclude that it has a problem. You don't know where it is at - how can you be certain of anything. Log that you didn't find it and maybe someone should check.

 

I am jsut as proud of my DNF searches as my found it ones. All part of my caching history.

[+QSparrow]

If you can't find it, don't make some weird leap of logic to conclude that it has a problem. You don't know where it is at - how can you be certain of anything. Log that you didn't find it and maybe someone should check.

 

I am jsut as proud of my DNF searches as my found it ones. All part of my caching history.

I really like that and maybe at some point I'll have the confidence to do it.

 

Right now, I'm just sooooo very bad at this and I was doing this at first but the cache owners have twice told me they will run out right away to see if it's still there, and of course it is. So when I log a DNF I want to be pretty sure it's either not there or I log it appropriately to let the owner know I just really suck at this. If it's a harder cache I have no problem logging the DNF.

Edited March 17, 2007 by QSparrow

[+DocDiTTo]

Logging a DNF is a courtesy to other cachers and the cache owner. Like any courteous act, there are those who will and won't do it. No, it shouldn't be a requirement, just as holding the door open for the person behind you isn't a requirement, or letting a car pull out in traffic when you have the right-of-way isn't a requirement. It's just a polite thing to do. Not everyone is polite. If I've learned one thing from these forums, that's definitely it.

[+debtodd007]

Logging DNF's is interesting. I know individuals who find caches and never log period. There was time when we didn't log DNF's but kept the cache pages. We've started to log DNF's recently so we don't have to keep cache pages.

 

One side effect of logging DNF's. The cache owner often sends us hint's. That's a very nice gesture on the part of the owner, but often we'd rather not have the hint, especially with local caches, because we like to go back and search again.

 

There was one cache about 50 yards from my wife's office. It took her 4 or 5 visits before she found it. Recently we went back to a DNF that we logged exactly 1 yr and 2 days before. It was fun to find it the second time around. I see both side's of the issue.

 

Some of us are just busy. We've actually went back to two cache's we've found before because we hadn't logged the finds, even though to we try to get every one.

 

It's a fun activity, I don't believe people have to complicate it with rules about logging cache's.

[X-isle]

I have to agree, that DNF's tell a story. I recently visited a cache and was unable to locate it ( GCW682). Being new, and unsure of my locating skills, I did not log a dnf. I just didn't want the owner panicking because my oversight. I went back today, with a whopping 15 caches under my belt, and found it. The reason I didn't find it before, was because it was out of service. Broken and laying on the ground under some leaves, with no log. I repaired the cache as best I could, and placed another log sheet inside, and noted so in my "found it" log. But if I had logged a DNF in the first place, maybe it would not have been down so long. In any case, I learned my lesson and will be logging DNF's, regardless of how it makes me feel. And on my finds, I will be routinely reporting the cache condition. X

[+ReadyOrNot]

It should not be a REQUIREMENT, but logging DNFs is a good thing to do for the owner and other cachers.

 

Not sure that making it a requirement would even be possible. How would that be enforced? I think that people who don't log their finds or DNF's are a bit selfish... One of the most enjoyable things about geocaching for me is reading the experience others have while finding one of my caches. In addition, I almost archived one of my caches because it hadn't been logged online for over 3 months. When I went to check on the cache, I was surprised to find several cachers who had visited, left a date and name and that's it... Some people just don't think about other people's feelings (sniffle sniffle)

[crtrue]

Outside of striving for some unrealistic form of perfectionism, a thought which causes a stinging sensation in me, since the nature of the game makes it nigh impossible to get no DNFs, are there any good reasons for not logging a DNF?

[+Retcon]

Outside of striving for some unrealistic form of perfectionism, a thought which causes a stinging sensation in me, since the nature of the game makes it nigh impossible to get no DNFs, are there any good reasons for not logging a DNF?

Other than the irreperable harm it'll do to the (failed) cacher's poor little emo life? No.

[Trinity's Crew]

I used to skip logging a DNF if I didn't spend much time to searching. I didn't want to discourage others from looking or cause the owner to check on the cache needlessly.

 

After discussing the matter in these forums, I decided that it made sense to log every DNF. It's easy enough to mention how much time you spent (or didn't spend) looking. I say log 'em all.

[+JATurtle]

Outside of striving for some unrealistic form of perfectionism, a thought which causes a stinging sensation in me, since the nature of the game makes it nigh impossible to get no DNFs, are there any good reasons for not logging a DNF?

 

To the best of my knowledge, my brother never logs a DNF. I always assumed he didn't want people knowing he couldn't find the cache. Sort of like it worked against him. Personally, if I am at the point where I am looking for the cache, regardless of the time spent, I log the find or the DNF. If I never get to the zone, or there are reasons I can't look for the cache once I approach the CZ, I may submit a note, but since I didn't get down to actually looking, I don't log a DNF.

 

But that is just me!

Edited March 17, 2007 by JATurtle

[+Team GPSaxophone]

There's a cacher in my area that deletes my DNF's. He must think it's a mark of shame to have someone DNF his caches or something. I looked, I didn't find what I was looking for, so I log a DNF. Him deleting my DNF doesn't change the fact that I didn't find it.

[Trinity's Crew]

There's a cacher in my area that deletes my DNF's. He must think it's a mark of shame to have someone DNF his caches or something. I looked, I didn't find what I was looking for, so I log a DNF. Him deleting my DNF doesn't change the fact that I didn't find it.

 

That's odd. Does he delete them after he checks to verify the cache is still there? Maybe he thinks he's supposed to delete the DNF if the cache is actually still there. I'm not advocating this practice, I'm just trying to understand it. Do you wind up logging the DNFs as notes or just forget it?

[+J-Way]

If you looked and did not find (even for just a minute or 2) or even 10 different visits - IMHO, you should log each attempt as a DNF. Logs tell a story, DNF stories have value too.

I usually do this, but with exceptions. For example, there is a particularly well-hidden nano near where I work I couldn't find. I pass by the location several times a week on the way to meetings, so I'd usually spend a few seconds to a minute or two searching. I'd already done an extensive search and logged a DNF. If I had logged every additional search, the logs would have been something like, "Looked again for 2 minutes, still didn't find", repeated many times filling the cache log. I can't see how these DNF logs would serve any purpose, which is why I didn't log them. I finally asked the owner for a hint... still no find after a second extensive search, so I logged a second DNF.

 

If I actually start the process of looking for a new, I'll post *something*, even if it's just a note saying that I looked for 5 minutes but had to leave, or too many muggles in the area for an exhaustive search.

 

A DNF log type DOES NOT mean that something is wrong with the cache. If you can't find it, don't make some weird leap of logic to conclude that it has a problem. You don't know where it is at - how can you be certain of anything. Log that you didn't find it and maybe someone should check. I am jsut as proud of my DNF searches as my found it ones. All part of my caching history.

I agree completely, even with the "easy" cache that started this whole thread. Me not finding it really doesn't mean much. But three people in a row not finding it might, especially since it's supposed to be easy. I logged the DNF, the other two people either didn't look for it (possible, but not likely) or failed to find it and didn't log. Also, I don't automatically assume there's something wrong when I fail, but I DO post any things that MIGHT be wrong to alert the owner to possible problems. Maybe I just didn't see it and the problem is with me, or maybe some of the possible problems I listed will indicate something to the owner.

 

Jason

[+Harriet the Spy]

Another reason to log your DNF's is that it encourages newbie cachers. When I first started caching I felt like giving up because it seemed that everybody else was able to find cahes in their sleep. I am lucky enough to have good friends who are experienced cachers who could walk me through some of them. But if you are starting out on your own, without help it can be very discouraging to not find caches that everybody else is finding. After caching for a bit and getting to know some of the locals, they couldn't find some of them either they just didn't post their DNF's.

[+Trucker Lee]

Logging a DNF is a courtesy to other cachers and the cache owner. Like any courteous act, there are those who will and won't do it. No, it shouldn't be a requirement, just as holding the door open for the person behind you isn't a requirement, or letting a car pull out in traffic when you have the right-of-way isn't a requirement. It's just a polite thing to do. Not everyone is polite. If I've learned one thing from these forums, that's definitely it.

 

Right on!!!

 

There's a cacher in my area that deletes my DNF's. He must think it's a mark of shame to have someone DNF his caches or something. I looked, I didn't find what I was looking for, so I log a DNF. Him deleting my DNF doesn't change the fact that I didn't find it.

 

Doesn't make sense to me!! I also look on a DNF as an "atta-boy" to the hider, an acknowledgement that he got me that time, it becomes a challenge to me to erase that off my cache record, I now have got to get that one. In addition, it can serve as a flag to him/her of a potential problem. (I have a cache nearby that I would immediately check on if it got a DNF log posted.)

[+JennM]

I log DNFs. The first couple were newbie errors - but I've noted that in my log. I always try to make my logs comprehensive without being long-winded.

 

Two of note were one at a restaurant, under a deck. I got to GZ, but there were muggles around and I didn't feel comfortable looking. In fact, IMO that cache was poorly placed - and no explicit permission was stated in the cache page. The restaurant was closed when I looked (I was trying for a FTF.) Cache was published in mid-Feb, and to date (over a month later) it only has 2 finds and no other DNF aside from mine. I don't think it was a particularly difficult one to find, just difficult to get without arousing suspicion.

 

The other one was this past week - I was in another state on business, and I looked and looked - it was in a busy area and I was getting nervous about the amount of time I'd spent lingering in a weird place in view of lots of people. It had been found about 3 weeks before - but I logged the DNF with a note that I'd be back in the area in a month and may try again.

 

Unfortunately the owner of that cache hasn't been on the Geocaching website in about 2 years - I don't know if anyone else is tending that cache but there are 2 users watching it so hopefully somebody's keeping an eye on it in case it was muggled.

 

Oh yeah - and I also went and logged a DNF for one that I believe to have been muggled - a couple of others had logged it DNF also - so I thought I'd check it out. I emailed the cache owner but the email bounced, so I contacted our local reviewer who disabled it with a note to the owner to check on it. The owner hasn't visited this website in a while so he may be out of the game - the reviewer told me if a reasonable amount of time passed he'd archive it - or it may be put up for adoption.

 

I don't feel so bad if I have trouble finding something that somebody else has logged as DNF - or depending on what the log says, I may pass on looking until either the owner posts a not confirming the cache is intact or not.

 

I think that properly done DNF logs are helpful to all.

 

Jenn