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throwing down a challenge


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Seriously sbell??? Are you really asking that question for a response or were you being FUNNY??? (I hope being funny) I guess maybe all one needs to do is READ the guidelines to answer most of those "questions".

 

Seriously though, if you're silly enough to place a container that hints of a bomb (I'll spell it out to you so you don't need to ask those funny questions...a PIPE-LIKE container with wires or a timer...the words "bomb" or anything of that nature BUT not limited to that type) you should be banned from caching and possibly tossed in the clink for awhile...we need that kind of black-eye like a hole in the head!

 

Luckily, we have reviewers to stop MOST of those cache examples you used (although I like the little bridge idea...as long as it were on private property )...I think we all understand that a cache hidden on, by or under a BRIDGE isn't going to get published, railroad tracks are off limits regardless of a fence (to a certain distance I believe) even if not in use (unless the tracks are removed and the area is designated public I think was what one of the mods stated a while back). And I'm not 100% sure, but if a cop were to OK such a cache as you mentioned, wouldn't our reviewers also have to give it their stamp of approval??? I don't think reviewers would allow that (wouldn't that be against the rules of hiding?????)...governemet buildings are off limits...right???

 

Also...if a CoP said the warhead in the police station WERE OK, I'd be asking for the guy's (or gal's) head on a platter, we NEED someone that silly working as the head of our police force all right!!! As with most ANYTHING in life, one should use COMMON SENSE!!!

 

I guess I must have lost you by not adding that caches should follow the rules and guidelines???? B)

You're really doing a lot of negative squawking about nothing. If you don't want to accept the challenge...don't. We know what the rules say, and hardly need them dictated to us. If someone doesn't have the sense to read the rules first, what makes you think they have the sense to place a good cache IN ANY CASE. I'm a newbie, and I'm not stupid.

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If my general pissiness at this idea did not bleed through well enough in my earlier post, I choose to take this opportunity to say that I frown on most "challenges" in general as being moronic tools for the propagation of the lowest common denominator of behaviors to the lower echelons of the masses, aka the lumpen proletariat; in other words, to those people who already have a problem thinking for themselves and steering their lives in a sane and coherent manner. And, I see this current "challenge" as no exception to that generalization. We already have more than enough caches out there already in almost all parts of the USA, and worse, we have a massive surplus of mindless moronic caches out there, including many of those which have been labeled as "lame urban micros" or as "micro spew", and I feel that the LAST thing which we REALLY need is for someone to pop their head up and encourage other cachers to emplace a new geocache simply for the sake of emplacing a geocache in response to a "challenge". Wow! How fun! Let's encourage people who could not emplace a good cache if their lives depended upon it to go out and emplace a lame cache! Wow! That would be much akin to issuing a "challenge" to the major TV networks to come up with a few more mindless moronic TV serials for weekday evening fare. sigh!

 

Late postscript: A geo-friend who noticed this post just contacted me to tell me that when she first saw the "challenge" posted by the OP, it reminded her of nothing more than the mindless and destructive behaviours moronic frat boys in college (and the local mountain bikers, most of whom seem to be hell-bent on becoming alcoholics) who, upon hitting the bars at night, issue a "challenge" to each other to drink as much alcohol and ingest as many drugs as possible between that hour and midnight. You know what? I agree with her 150%! My first gut reaction upon hearing an announcement of ANY challenge is: "Oh no! Is this one more example of the lowest commeon denominator of thought, feeling and behavior trying to propagate itself in human society again?"

Well...I don't jump through hoops on command, challenge or no. But I have been planning my second cache now for weeks. And I actually just placed it for approval before I opened this thread. Now I see that a few of you think you are the only ones who can use a little common sense hiding a tupperware container with some trinkets and a sign in log. Good grief, maybe I should have hired a consultant before I ever considered playing this GAME! Some of you really need to lighten up. This isn't quantum physics (although some of you are rather quarky) B) . For real...this is a game for enjoyment and individual pleasure. "People who could not emplace a good cache if their lives depended on it" is a little harsh, and frankly makes you sound like an egomaniac. Words like lame, moronic and mindless I tend to save for describing Congress...not for fellow geocachers. My oldest would tell you to "chill". My youngest would say "check yo sef, before ya wreck yo sef". I say simply, that this is a game, and hiding caches in acceptable, sensible places is not rocket science.

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Well WJFC....that's all fine and good, an office full of trained employees ARE better motivated at a challenge (they are all TRAINED and know what is expected of them), telling the forums to go hide a bunch of caches is a bit different. Telling a mass group to go out and do something that some have never tried before is more likely to hinder the caching world rather than help. Bad publicity from a well intended challenge isn't a good thing!

 

I'd challenge you to something a bit more like...attend at least 5 events, find at least a 3/3 cache, find 50 LPCs (after that, you'll be good and tired of them), do a 5+ mile cache, find 50 urban caches (not LPCs), find 50 wilderness caches, attend at least 2 CITO events and THEN place a hide! IF I were to challenge someone that is. That way, you'd at least have a bit of an idea as to what caches are going to work and what would be a problem...but even that won't really do it!

 

edit to add: hey...I don't meet these requirements. I haven't been to a single CITO yet! And I'll be jiggered if I'm doing 50 LPCs....

GAWD you are full of yourself!

We could hang out. B)

Edited by X-isle
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Rockin, first i think you might be giving "an office full of trained employees" a little too much credit - but that is a side note.

 

The real issue here is that Sneaky Pete presented a challenge; a mature group would have said things like "That is a great idea, but let us add the stipulation that the cache must meet a high level of quality and ......etc." thus adding the challenge and making a good experience for all involved.

 

Instead we get comments like: "You may need to resume your intake of medication" which, by the way, is much more socially irresponsible then placing a bad cache.

 

Yeah, people should cut the OP some slack. He's been around a couple of years, but is a tadpole in the forums. I do believe most of the posts have been along the lines of "That is a great idea, but let us add the stipulation that the cache must meet a high level of quality and ......etc." Somehow, I must have missed the "You may need to resume your intake of medication" comment, and I don't plan on looking for it. B)

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I placed eleven caches two weeks ago and five more last week. :)

 

However, I have more caches ready to go, and there are other places I would like to lure people to . . .

 

But . . . I have some cache maintenance I need to do first, before I can accept the challenge. :wub:

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Congrats to you kajamelu4...looks like your hide is a nice one! What X-isle would like you to believe is that we who question this (or myself at least, not speaking for others) don't want others to place caches or think that only a select few should be doing this. FAR from it, but great bit of fantasy there X-isle, you are full of it...we may get along as you say!

 

NOPE...I, like many others I'd assume, would like to see GOOD caches that are safe and follow the guidelines! SIMPLE as that! A challenge to place caches as stated is fine as long as the people you challenge KNOW the guidelines and at least have a little sense as to how a cache should (or shouldn't) be placed! Sorry if anyone took my comments otherwise.

 

Actions of others could and do affect EVERYONE in this sport. Place a cache that draws bad publicity and it could be a bad blow to our sport (something not needed in this day of bomb-scares and such). My comments were more driven toward this....and not meant to be mean toward ANYONE.

 

Yes, by all means, go out and give back to our sport, but use your heads and follow the rules (READ the rules if you already haven't)!!! As I said, I followed the hiding guidelines on all my caches, but some of them were placed in places that should have been better cared for. I hid one pretty hard and the results were torn up surroundings because people couldn't find it easily. That needs to be taken into account as well as any guidelines!

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I've got two ready to go, but haven't found the perfect location they would fit in. Criteria are: 1. Location needs to be secluded enough to provide cache protection, but not discourage cachers (like that can be done!) 2. I want to take cachers to someplace interesting, not an oak tree along a country road. This means when I find the spot, I need to research the significance so I can be accurate on the cache page.

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Well, after the freak snowstorm on Friday in our area, and getting buried under almost a foot of snow over 24 hours... I'll probably put a new one out soon, but not until some of this snow melts. It is supposed to be back to 60's by Friday in our area, so maybe by then!

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What X-isle would like you to believe is that we who question this (or myself at least, not speaking for others) don't want others to place caches or think that only a select few should be doing this. FAR from it, but great bit of fantasy there X-isle,

 

What? PuhLeez. These people need no interpreter. Your words were plain for all to see....

 

"I agree with Sbell...challenging a newbie into hiding a cache that he/she has no idea how to (A) hide ( maintain, how can that be helpful to our sport?? If that newbie (or even old salt for that matter) decides to place one in a sensitive location because they didn't read or follow the guidelines for placement, we could actually get a black-eye for their effort!

 

It's best to leave hiding caches to those that are READY to do so," and.....

"...attend at least 5 events, find at least a 3/3 cache, find 50 LPCs (after that, you'll be good and tired of them), do a 5+ mile cache, find 50 urban caches (not LPCs), find 50 wilderness caches, attend at least 2 CITO events and THEN place a hide!"

 

I'm not putting words in anybodys mouth or having anyone believe anything. Your words speak loud and clearly. Your words "challenging a newbie" etc etc are pretty telling...eh? Since you have already apologised for any misunderstanding by "ANYONE", it seems a sad and detracting tactic to attempt to shift blame upon me, who has absolutely no clout whatsoeva in this forum. But as a "newbie", I won't be denigrated just because you are a premium member with a holier than thou attitude. **snicker** I'm really not mad. But I'm not letting you get away with using Hillary tactics on me! :D And I agree that some of your points were valid, your presentation was insulting and egomaniacal...and for a newbie, a bit hair raising! X

kid-with-static-hair.jpg

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Oh WOW X-isle...you ARE full of yourself!! Perhaps you missed the part that said (as well as us old salts)?????? Where do you see me limiting cache placement to only the vets??? Man, stop thinking every little point is a dagger in your back!!!

 

Your right, I'm a bit egomaniacal for suggesting that a cacher (ANY caccher) should be READY to place a cache!!! Challenging ANYONE to do something before they are ready is counter-productive, at best, we can HOPE for a safe and decent cache...at worst...well, bomb squads, injured or arrested people etc! How thoughtless of me to think of those when deciding on a cache placement!

 

You ARE creating fantasy by saying that I wouldn't want anyone to place a cache....maybe you shouldn't take things out of context??? My post is there to read, let others read it IN WHOLE and then go from there.

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I didn't post to this thread until I scoped out the new park in my area, found a good spot, prepped the cache and placed it for review. If there were no good spots to place a cache in the park then I wouldn't have accepted the challenge.

 

I wouldn't expect those who are not ready to run out and place a cache just because they were challenged to do so in a forum thread, and realistically if someone does place a cache irresponsibly, I don't think it has anything to do with them being challenged...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

to hide a cache. :D

Edited by Trinity's Crew
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Oh WOW X-isle...you ARE full of yourself!! Perhaps you missed the part that said (as well as us old salts)?????? Where do you see me limiting cache placement to only the vets??? Man, stop thinking every little point is a dagger in your back!!!

 

Your right, I'm a bit egomaniacal for suggesting that a cacher (ANY caccher) should be READY to place a cache!!! Challenging ANYONE to do something before they are ready is counter-productive, at best, we can HOPE for a safe and decent cache...at worst...well, bomb squads, injured or arrested people etc! How thoughtless of me to think of those when deciding on a cache placement!

 

You ARE creating fantasy by saying that I wouldn't want anyone to place a cache....maybe you shouldn't take things out of context??? My post is there to read, let others read it IN WHOLE and then go from there.

Wow! Melt down! Hahahahaaa! :D

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If my general pissiness at this idea did not bleed through well enough in my earlier post, I choose to take this opportunity to say that I frown on most "challenges" in general as being moronic tools for the propagation of the lowest common denominator of behaviors to the lower echelons of the masses, aka the lumpen proletariat; in other words, to those people who already have a problem thinking for themselves and steering their lives in a sane and coherent manner. And, I see this current "challenge" as no exception to that generalization. We already have more than enough caches out there already in almost all parts of the USA, and worse, we have a massive surplus of mindless moronic caches out there, including many of those which have been labeled as "lame urban micros" or as "micro spew", and I feel that the LAST thing which we REALLY need is for someone to pop their head up and encourage other cachers to emplace a new geocache simply for the sake of emplacing a geocache in response to a "challenge". Wow! How fun! Let's encourage people who could not emplace a good cache if their lives depended upon it to go out and emplace a lame cache! Wow! That would be much akin to issuing a "challenge" to the major TV networks to come up with a few more mindless moronic TV serials for weekday evening fare. sigh!

 

Late postscript: A geo-friend who noticed this post just contacted me to tell me that when she first saw the "challenge" posted by the OP, it reminded her of nothing more than the mindless and destructive behaviours moronic frat boys in college (and the local mountain bikers, most of whom seem to be hell-bent on becoming alcoholics) who, upon hitting the bars at night, issue a "challenge" to each other to drink as much alcohol and ingest as many drugs as possible between that hour and midnight. You know what? I agree with her 150%! My first gut reaction upon hearing an announcement of ANY challenge is: "Oh no! Is this one more example of the lowest commeon denominator of thought, feeling and behavior trying to propagate itself in human society again?"

I Wasnt going to take the Challenge for the fact I already have enough caches Placed.But after reading this post I changed my mind.I reread the OPs CHALLENGE and could not find where it mentioned NEWBIEs need to place caches.I am myself a NEWBIE in my own mind.I have found a couple caches and also hidden a couple.For some one to degrade other people just isnt my way.I am going to place the Most LAME cache I can.Just for the princable of it.
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Challenge accepted.

 

One letterbox hybrid in the reviewing queue, one EarthCache waiting for land manager approval, one custom-built (albeit "Small" classification) container and spot chosen waiting for the light of day tomorrow to be hidden, and another custom-built (5-star? urban micro) drying and waiting for a paint job.

 

Thanks for the challenge! It's greatly appreciated.

 

Edited for updates:

Books (PMOC Letterbox Hybrid) (Published 3/21)

Child's Play (PMOC Traditional Small) (Not Published Yet)

Thar Be Black Water Here (EarthCache) (awaiting land manager approval)

Inside or Out? Upstairs or Down? (Traditional Micro) (Not Published Yet)

Edited by jasond
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Done and done. And done again! Put Elements in its place (GC11FN0), and finished with "CrazyTree or Assault and..." and "Poisoning Pigeons" (neither of which are published yet). Also helped Myers7 put out his first two caches: "Trapped in Coleman Warehouse! Send Help!!!" and "Rock On!". So there!

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Flamejobgrrl's post shows exactly my concerns about this challenge!! Not only aren't virts allowed, but you're also not allowed to place caches while vacationing (you need to be able to maintain them after all).

 

What are your concerns? Neither of these attributes are currently allowed. If caches like this ARE submitted they will be denied. I still contend that this challenge will have little impact on the quality of a cache that is placed in response to it. You'll get some good ones, some mediocre ones, some bad ones, and some illegal ones. In other words, a normal week of cache placement here at GC.com.

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Nope, not THIS time!! What happens if she (or anyone else) happens to get one approved (that is allowed) that's in a bad location or is dangerous in nature. What if she (or whomever) places one where permission is needed and not gained???

 

edit to add: the post after my last proves the mentality that I mentioned too (may not be the mentality that that poster had when doing this, but it's what worries me)..."you challenged, someone thinks it's a bad idea, so I'm going to do it to show you!!" I applaud those that are doing this with some forethought and prep, those that just read the post and decide they aren't to be talked down to and will "show you" are scary!!

 

Planning, preperation and a knowledge of rules and what a good cache (good=safe and given permission and such) should be are KEY to this!!

Edited by Rockin Roddy
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Nope, not THIS time!! What happens if she (or anyone else) happens to get one approved (that is allowed) that's in a bad location or is dangerous in nature. What if she (or whomever) places one where permission is needed and not gained???

 

A location that is "bad" or "dangerous in nature" is all relative. I have a bookmark list of my favorite caches and the top two slots are caches that are dangerous in nature. As for placing "one where permission is needed and not gained," the same thing that usually happens will probably happen. A few people will find it, and someone will be a cache cop and report it.

 

It's a game. Encouraging its participants is not detrimental. Encouraging noobs to find caches can sometimes lead to the muggling of a stealth-intensive cache. Encouraging noobs to hide caches can potentially lead to other problems. It's not the encourager's fault. It's just the way things sometimes work out.

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that is a valid point. but you can't blame that on the challenge itself. "she or (whomever)" would have eventually placed the chache anyways.

 

what one of shoudl have done at the begingin of the challenge is posted a link the the hiding guidlines so as to help the new comers out. that would have been a good idea.

 

bad caches are going to happen, I went to 4 of them this weekend, 2 of those were placed by a cacher in my area that has been cacheing for a few YEARS and has over 200 hides. you would think that he would know how to place a cache, but these were horrible. so again you can't blame it on the challenge.

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what one of shoudl have done at the begingin of the challenge is posted a link the the hiding guidlines so as to help the new comers out. that would have been a good idea.

 

It would have been a good idea, but it's unnecessary. In order to submit a cache, you have to check the box that says "Yes. I have read and understand the guidelines for listing a cache." The guidelines are linked from there. If someone doesn't read them and checks the box, the challenger is not responsible for the hider's lie. :D

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A BAD or DANGEROUS location is relative??? What do you mean??? Are you saying that it doesn't matter if a dangerous cache is placed??? So...someone goes to the "dangerous" cache, gets electrocuted or has a finger cut off by moving objects...that's irrelavant????

 

Placing a cache near a place where it draws suspicion (and possibly the cops or bomb squad) is irrelavant??? Not getting permission and the owner of the property finds out and calls the cops on the cacher who is out to find it is only relavant to that cacher??? What if the cops tire of going to these calls and decides to call for a ban on all public properties??? May not get passed, but would be a huge speed bump for the cache community to get over!!

 

edit to add: I agree with you about this not being only a newb problem, I never said it was...people read only a small amount and then run off half-cocked! Having the guidelines at the top of the post will have no more use than where it is now (right where you'd go to publish a cache)!! If they won't read it there, why do you think they'll bother if it's posted with this topic??

Edited by Rockin Roddy
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edit to add: the post after my last proves the mentality that I mentioned too (may not be the mentality that that poster had when doing this, but it's what worries me)..."you challenged, someone thinks it's a bad idea, so I'm going to do it to show you!!" I applaud those that are doing this with some forethought and prep, those that just read the post and decide they aren't to be talked down to and will "show you" are scary!!

 

You worry too much. Cachers place caches. The challenge will probably yield the same mixed results that any "X" number of random caches would.

 

Besides, an "I'll show you" attitude doesn't automatically lead to catastrophe. There's an equally good chance they just might just go out and "show us". :D

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A BAD or DANGEROUS location is relative??? What do you mean??? Are you saying that it doesn't matter if a dangerous cache is placed??? So...someone goes to the "dangerous" cache, gets electrocuted or has a finger cut off by moving objects...that's irrelavant????

 

Placing a cache near a place where it draws suspicion (and possily the cops or bomb squad) is irrelavant??? Not getting permission and the owner of the property finds out and calls the cops on the cacher who is out to find it is only relavant to that cacher??? What if the cops tire of going to these calls and decides to call for a ban on all public properties??? May not get passed, but would be a huge speed bump for the cache community to get over!!

 

Dangerous locations are allowed. Look at the Psycho Urban Series. Look at the majority of 5-star terrain caches. They are difficult and often dangerous if you don't have the proper equipment.

 

I never used the word "irrelavant" (or irrelevant). The second paragraph of your post reminds me of Chicken Little. I never said that placing caches in illegal areas was good. I just implied that it happens all the time and typically corrects itself. That was my basis for shifting blame from the challenger to the hider.

 

I've said my piece. I'll just watch from now on. :D

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A BAD or DANGEROUS location is relative??? What do you mean??? Are you saying that it doesn't matter if a dangerous cache is placed??? So...someone goes to the "dangerous" cache, gets electrocuted or has a finger cut off by moving objects...that's irrelavant????

 

Placing a cache near a place where it draws suspicion (and possily the cops or bomb squad) is irrelavant??? Not getting permission and the owner of the property finds out and calls the cops on the cacher who is out to find it is only relavant to that cacher??? What if the cops tire of going to these calls and decides to call for a ban on all public properties??? May not get passed, but would be a huge speed bump for the cache community to get over!!

 

Yes BAD and DANGEROUS ARE relative. I won't white-water kayak or mountain climb to find a cache, because I lack the skills (and desire) to do it. If someone places a cache that requires one or more of these skills to retreive, it would be VERY DANGEROUS for me to seek it. However, those who enjoy these activities and have the necessary skills would probably not see this kind of placement as particularly dangerous.

 

As for the rest of your concerns, they are discussed weekly here in the forums and the ill-conceived caches weren't placed as the result of a challenge.

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I guess you miss the point in my stating a "bad cache"...by that I don't mean a cache where the cacher goes in KNOWING the risks...how about the caches placed in electric boxes leading to someone "thinking" a box contains a cache and gets electrocuted? What of the cache placed in an out-of-bounds area that gets published without anyone knowing it's location is not allowed (it happens every day in GC.com too) and the innocent cacher searching it out gets arrested and caching gets yet another black eye??

 

NO, not the extreme caches, you have a choice to go after those because you have prior warning. It's the unknown dangers that worry me!!

 

edit for spelling as usual!

Edited by Rockin Roddy
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I guess you miss the point in my stating a "bad cache"...by that I don't mean a cache where the cacher goes in KNOWING the risks...how about the caches placed in electric boxes leading to someone "thinking" a box contains a cache and gets electrocuted? What of the cache placed in an out-of-bounds area that gets published without anyone knowing it's location is not allowed (it happens every day in GC.com too) and the innocent cacher searching it out gets arrested and caching gets yet another black eye??

 

NO, not the extreme caches, you have a choice to go after those because you have prior warning. It's the unknown dangers that worry me!!

 

edit for spelling as usual!

 

No I didn't miss your point about a "bad cache", it's just that a "bad cache" is probably more subjective than a "dangerous" cache. I didn't think I needed to address it.

 

As I stated previously, any manner of ill-conceived caches are discussed in these forums ad nauseum, and believe it or not, they got placed without anyone issuing a challenge.

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I would like to say Thank You to all of the geocacher that accepted my challenge. from the post I have read it looked like it was a good thing.

 

I posted this same challenge in our state geocache forums and got a lot of new caches to go find.

 

once again THANK YOU.

 

Thanx to you Sneaky_Pete. I am sure in your interest to just get us all jump started, further our activity in geocaching, and to get us out of our cabins(my desire for sure), you issued the challenge. But as it seems to be a prevailing mood lately, people seem to take the innocence of a suggestion and turn it into a great debate. But like you said, if you don't want to do it, don't!

 

Thanx again, Dr. P

 

P.S. -- did 5 this last week. :D

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Thank you Sneaky Pete, did you expect your thread to go on like this?

 

I knew there would be some cachers that would nit pick it and put it down. I also figure the number of cachers for it would out number the ones against it.

 

there is alway a few na sayers in every crowd.

You are right about the na sayers.You will soon find out that in the forums on this site all the na sayers have big numbers.In there hides and finds and posts.I hope I never get so good at geo-caching that I dont want newbies to place any caches.

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Sorry, I've got cache maintenance planned instead.

 

not everyone will accept this challenge but for the ones that do can only help geocaching

 

I did my maintenance. One was a cache that I adopted and I removed the MOC requirement which opened it to more cachers.

 

Does that count, or do you say nay?

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Here is mine. It's a multi that takes you on 5 mile hike from beginning to end. OK its a day late, but it took 3 trips to finish. We put the final stage in the day after a snow storm, then had to turn around because the snow was too deep. Came back the next day with showshoes and installed stages 2 and 3, but called it a day because it was getting late. I finally finished today.
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