Another LEO encounter

[+two left feet]

Went down to Dallas Tx Sunday for a day of caching and went after a multi cache puzzle. Cache page said the area the caches were in was OK and you would not cross property lines or encounter no trespassing signs. The entry to the area was a dirt road off the end of a public park so it looks like part of the park area. We got about half way through and a police officer from the far side of a creek called to us to tell us we were trespassing. We told him we were sorry but the info we had was that the land we were on was OK. He then told us that in fact some of the land was Corps of Engineers and you can hike on it but the rest of the land was privately owned. He further acknowledged that there were not any 'no trespassing' signs or fences to let you know which was which and that he did not have a map nor any information as to which land we were on at the moment. He said he had "strict instructions" that no body was to be in there. The officer with him was working overtime and his assignment was to sit in his car on the perimeter of this land and tell people to leave. His final words were: "well we don't know which land you are on so you just need to go ahead and leave." Of course we did so, but I did think about saying "no way" and just ducking into the heavy brush nearby because there was a large creek full of water between him and us! :-)

 

Very interesting use of police overtime; sit on a road and watch a large tract of dense trees and brush which you have no idea where the boundaries are or who controls what and then run off any geocachers that happen near you. This area is several hundred acres and is so dense that you can' see 20 yards into it. How effective can this be?? Oh well, another geocaching adventure and story to tell at the next meeting.

[+Renegade Knight]

Strange.

 

Sounds like a bunch of crap. But the part you didn't hear is probably the real story and that part may very well be such that it was a good idea that you weren't there at the time.

[+sbell111]

It does, indeed, sound like BC, although I would have also just said 'yessir' and left.

[+StarBrand]

Pretty faulty logic but I would agree that "betwwen the lines" - they were simply saying scram at the moment.

[chuckr30]

It's possible the officers were doing a stakeout and they didn't want any civvies scaring away possible offenders.

 

Was the car marked or unmarked?

[+wesleykey]

It's possible the officers were doing a stakeout and they didn't want any civvies scaring away possible offenders.

 

 

That was the first thing I thought of, too. If others are logging the cache regularly then I would give it a week or two and go again.

[+two left feet]

That was the first thing I thought of, too. If others are logging the cache regularly then I would give it a week or two and go again.

 

Interesting posts. I hadn't thought about them being there for some other reason. It was pretty remote to be some sort of stake out, but then you never know what some people might be up to.

 

These caches are in some rough terrain and require crossing some creeks so they don't get logged much. Also it is about 180 miles from where we live, so we don't get to that area much.

 

Police unit was a standard patrol car and both officers in regular uniforms.

[+DocDiTTo]

Given a choice between relying on the police or on a cache hider to provide accurate information regarding land ownership and trespassing I will believe the officer over the cacher 100% of the time. Even if the officer is completely wrong, he's also capable of starting of a legal hassle I don't want to deal with. I've got no problem questioning authority (respectfully, of course) but I won't argue over something as unimportant as a geocache. Leaving was the right thing to do.

[+Team Dubbin]

So what was the name of this cache?

[chuckr30]

Interesting posts. I hadn't thought about them being there for some other reason. It was pretty remote to be some sort of stake out, but then you never know what some people might be up to.

 

Remote is the best place for a meth lab. Some meth labs have been found in national parks in remote areas.

[+Rockin Roddy]

Our local finest once sat in a park hiding in the trees and such for some time to crack a "sex" ring that was working in the area (these were men having oral sex with other men). The cops sat there and photo'd everyone and such for months on end. Seemed a strange place to be doing this type of action, but I guess I'd be hiding too!

 

Could be any number of possible things going on in those woods!

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Interesting posts. I hadn't thought about them being there for some other reason. It was pretty remote to be some sort of stake out, but then you never know what some people might be up to.

 

Remote is the best place for a meth lab. Some meth labs have been found in national parks in remote areas.

That or a marijuana crop.

 

Sounds like the cops were looking for a particular type of person and the cachers didn't fit the profile. It's easier to make up a story and ask them to leave than it is to give out details of the story to someone who may or may not have a connection to the suspects or the press.

[+JimmyEv]

Given a choice between relying on the police or on a cache hider to provide accurate information regarding land ownership and trespassing I will believe the officer over the cacher 100% of the time. Even if the officer is completely wrong, he's also capable of starting of a legal hassle I don't want to deal with. I've got no problem questioning authority (respectfully, of course) but I won't argue over something as unimportant as a geocache. Leaving was the right thing to do.

 

I agree. But in Texas, to prevent trespassing, you either have to fence your land or demarcate it with purple paint. If the trees aren't marked with purple, there's a pretty safe bet you're on public land.

[+halffast]

I ws 1200 miles from home last summer and in a remote area.I was about 300 ft away from the cache I was after and just getting ready to leave my truck as a jeep topped the hill above me.I sat and waited for the jeep to go by but it stopped and the guy told me I was on private property.I started to explain I had permission but I hadnt brought the printout with me.I noticed the badge(sherrif)on his belt and followed him out of the hills.I will try again to log it this summer.

[+two left feet]

I agree. But in Texas, to prevent trespassing, you either have to fence your land or demarcate it with purple paint. If the trees aren't marked with purple, there's a pretty safe bet you're on public land.

 

Yes, it is like that in many states that had open range land. It is my understanding that in Oklahoma we are pretty much OK if we avoid; 1. enclosed fenced areas, 2. crops or cattle present, and 3. no trespassing signs. You pretty much need to know you shouldn't be there for it to be trespassing. Of course you can also be told verbally by the owner that you are on his land but you then have the opportunity to leave immediately. Then there are some always off limit areas like railroad tracks and right of ways whether they are marked or not. One odd provision of the law is that it is also trespassing to interfere with a land owners normal use of his property. So if you were to park your car and block access to a business driveway, you are trespassing even if you are not on the property.

[Zoptrop]

It has to do with "Sovereignty" and land ownership while Texas was a nation instead of a state. Do a google search on "Texas trespassing public land privately owned law" - it's amazing.

 

It's my understanding that there is no "Public Land" such as you'd find in other states (in that same context).

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

I agree. But in Texas, to prevent trespassing, you either have to fence your land or demarcate it with purple paint. If the trees aren't marked with purple, there's a pretty safe bet you're on public land.

Well, it it is not exactly that you are necessarily on public land, but rather, as I have written at times in the past on these forums, about half of the states in the USA -- including Texas, NY, NJ, WV, Maryland and Idaho -- have very relaxed and casual trespassing laws. And, in these states, the law essentially states that you can safely assume that you are allowed to walk upon or engage in other normal activities upon land, i.e, assume that it iss public access land (note that this does not mean "public land") unless it is marked with a Posted or No Trespassing sign, or unless it is marked with a blue (or in some states, purple or blue) vertical rectangular sign or symbol (most states declare that it must be at chest height to head height, and measuring at least 5 inches wide by 8 inches high) on a fence post, pole or tree along the border facing outward, or unless the land is obviously devoted to agricultural use (i.e., livestock or cultivated soil) or meets one of a a few other criteria (i.e., private residential home, railroad, clandestine landing spot for alien spacecraft, etc...) On the other hand, there are some states, one of which is Wyoming, which have very tight laws about trespassing, where you must assume that no land is publicly accessible unless it is clearly marked as public access land or unless you are told by the owner or their agent that you may access the land.

[X-isle]

I agree. But in Texas, to prevent trespassing, you either have to fence your land or demarcate it with purple paint. If the trees aren't marked with purple, there's a pretty safe bet you're on public land.

 

Yes, it is like that in many states that had open range land. It is my understanding that in Oklahoma we are pretty much OK if we avoid; 1. enclosed fenced areas, 2. crops or cattle present, and 3. no trespassing signs. You pretty much need to know you shouldn't be there for it to be trespassing. Of course you can also be told verbally by the owner that you are on his land but you then have the opportunity to leave immediately. Then there are some always off limit areas like railroad tracks and right of ways whether they are marked or not. One odd provision of the law is that it is also trespassing to interfere with a land owners normal use of his property. So if you were to park your car and block access to a business driveway, you are trespassing even if you are not on the property.

I've lost a case in court because I hooked a fella up for trespass after he had been repeatedly informed he was trespassing. The judge advised the suspect must be warned and given the opportunity to leave EACH and EVERY TIME. Only if you refuse to leave can you be arrested, in Oklahoma. This caused quite a commotion in the department. Judges legislate down here too. However, always do as police advise. You can find yourself in more serious charges than trespass, like "interfering with official process" or "disobeying a lawful order", etc. The police are not always right. But as we already established, a cache is unimportant where legal ramifications become involved. And, I'd be sure to let the hider know they should make other arrangements before someone does wind up in jail.