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DE Lorme PN-20

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I read a few reviews and they seem to be mostly positive. I kinda want to get one, but not if they're gonna make major improvements (like a faster processor) or cease production after a year or two.

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I read a few reviews and they seem to be mostly positive. I kinda want to get one, but not if they're gonna make major improvements (like a faster processor) or cease production after a year or two.

Yes, I have one. Great little unit. I highly doubt that they are going to cease production with the way things are going. If you wait for any major improvements with any electronic device, you will never own anything :P Having this unit just roll out, it might be a little while until they produce another GPSr. Go ahead and get one, if you don't like it, utilize their 30 return policy. There is all kind of good info here.

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Do I need to get it direct from De Lorme, or do other vendors handle it?

For now yes. Retailers will not have it until sometime this summer if not earlier. They have to build up inventory first.

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Their website says it accepts a SD card. Is this the standard sized 1" x 1.25" (approx), or the mini or micro (like the Garmin 60/76 GPS Map ??x series)?

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Their website says it accepts a SD card. Is this the standard sized 1" x 1.25" (approx), or the mini or micro (like the Garmin 60/76 GPS Map ??x series)?

It is NOT the micro/mini card.

 

PN20_SDCard.jpg

 

Additional product info.

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I have been pondering this unit myself. Can you upload waypoints from GSAK or does everything have to be transfered using the DeLorme topo program. From reading the manual it appears that the unit is fairly easy to use, is this accurate?

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I have been pondering this unit myself. Can you upload waypoints from GSAK or does everything have to be transfered using the DeLorme topo program. From reading the manual it appears that the unit is fairly easy to use, is this accurate?

"Easy to use" is a bit subjective, but the functions and layout are similar enough to other GPS units that I would say it's pretty easy to get around on. The map arrangement is a little more complicated with the various layers available, but once you go through the process that's clear enough to not puzzle over. The documentation is pretty good.

 

For right now, TopoUSA6 is the only portal. Robert "GPSBabel" Lipe has inquired on the DeLorme forum boards about getting the protocol; if made available to him I expect he would be able to add PN-20 support to GPSBabel, and through that, to GSAK. DeLorme has said they are working through some issues on their side, so it may or may not happen...I think we'll know within the month. In the meantime, I send a gpx file from GSAK into TopoUSA6, and thence to the PN-20.

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I just ordered the Deluxe package. My stupid bank takes it's sweet time paying my credit card (from another bank), so I had to phone and talked to a very nice young fellow in Maine to order. Did that make any sense? I notice more and more Internet stores charging sales tax. Anyone else noticed this?

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I just ordered the Deluxe package. My stupid bank takes it's sweet time paying my credit card (from another bank), so I had to phone and talked to a very nice young fellow in Maine to order. Did that make any sense? I notice more and more Internet stores charging sales tax. Anyone else noticed this?

Good deal. I'm sure that you will like it. Do you have any experience with Delorme mapping?

 

I have not been making that manyu on-lne purchases recently so I have not noticed.

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I just ordered the Deluxe package. My stupid bank takes it's sweet time paying my credit card (from another bank), so I had to phone and talked to a very nice young fellow in Maine to order. Did that make any sense? I notice more and more Internet stores charging sales tax. Anyone else noticed this?

Good deal. I'm sure that you will like it. Do you have any experience with Delorme mapping?

 

I have not been making that many on-line purchases recently so I have not noticed.

 

This will be my first time with DeLorme software, but I've been using Mapsource for nearly 3 years.

 

I ordered it about 2PM EST, they shipped it the same day, and according to the tracking #, it's already left Boston at 7:52 this morning.

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I just ordered the Deluxe package. My stupid bank takes it's sweet time paying my credit card (from another bank), so I had to phone and talked to a very nice young fellow in Maine to order. Did that make any sense? I notice more and more Internet stores charging sales tax. Anyone else noticed this?

Good deal. I'm sure that you will like it. Do you have any experience with Delorme mapping?

 

I have not been making that many on-line purchases recently so I have not noticed.

 

This will be my first time with DeLorme software, but I've been using Mapsource for nearly 3 years.

 

I ordered it about 2PM EST, they shipped it the same day, and according to the tracking #, it's already left Boston at 7:52 this morning.

DeLorme mapping software is soooooooo much different (and I mean that in a good way) then the Mapsource mapping. There are so many different things that you can do with it, that it might be overwhelming sometimes. Hop on over to the DeLorme Forums for any questions or concerns.

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It was waiting in the barn when I got home this evening. I got it (what's the word for getting it set up with it's new locale?) synced. Initiated may be the proper word. Topo is gonna take me awhile to figger out. Mapsource was almost easy comparatively speaking.

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I was reading over the manual on how to use this to geocache is it me or does this sound a lot more complicated than a garmin unit?

 

1. Visit www.geocaching.com and select the geocache you want to try to find.

2. Save the geocache’s .loc file to your computer.

3. Open Topo USA and click the Draw tab.

4. Click File to open the draw file editing area.

5. Click Import. The Import Draw File dialog box displays.

6. From the Files of type drop-down list, select LOC file (*.loc).

7. Browse to the location where you saved the .loc file in step 2, select the file, and then click

Open. The draw objects in the imported file display. A new draw file is automatically created for the imported file.

8. Click Done to return to the Draw dialog area.

9. Click the Handheld Export tab.

10. With the map centered on the geocache area, click the Edit tool and then click the rectangles

on the map that cover the map area you want to export to the Earthmate GPS PN-20.

11. Name and save your map package.

12. Click the Exchange button in the Topo USA toolbar.

13. Send the geocache waypoint layer and map package to the device and then click Done.

Once the map and waypoint are loaded on the Earthmate GPS PN-20, they use the Waypoints Page

to locate the coordinate that was provided in the cache’s clue. Once the waypoint is found, they

create a route from their current position (home) to the waypoint location.

14. Press MENU and then select Waypoints.

15. Highlight the geocache waypoint from the list and then press ENTER.

16. Highlight the default symbol and press ENTER. Scroll to the geocache symbol and then press

ENTER.

17. Use the arrow keypad to highlight the Route button and then press ENTER.

18. Use the arrow keypad to highlight the Navigate button and then press ENTER.

19. Press PAGE until the Compass Page displays.

20. Use the Compass Page to find the necessary direction of travel. The bearing arrow (large green

arrow) points in the direction of the next stop in the route. Use the bearing arrow to determine

the correct direction of travel towards the waypoint.

Once they arrive at the cache, they take a trinket from the cache and leave a pencil they bought while

on a recent trip to Niagara Falls and then update the waypoint symbol on the Earthmate GPS PN-20

to the geocache found symbol. When they return from their adventure, they visit the cache’s page on

www.geocaching.com and enter a log about their experience.

 

OR

 

Open GPX or loc file in map source

Click send button in the tool bar

press and hold find

select Geocache

select the cache desired (nearest is already selected)

press enter

find cache, mark found, then find next is displayed.

 

I am thinking about a PN-20 or a 60csx and I really value simplicity.

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I am thinking about a PN-20 or a 60csx and I really value simplicity.

The 20-step process you quoted from the PN-20 manual includes the necessary steps to define detailed map packages and transfer them to the GPS--normally a one-time event. So I find that my process looks much more like the garmin steps you noted.

 

Topo6 will accept gpx files for import, so you can import a pocket query directly into T6, or bring in a gpx file from GSAK. The waypoint download takes a few clicks, but is reasonably straight-forward. You can then use the find function or map pointer to select a waypoint and direct route or autoroute to it.

 

That said, I'm pretty sure the 60csx is more polished than the PN-20 at this point in time. If you're thinking about these two models, it will be worth seeing what the firmware upgrade expected around the end of the month for the PN-20 does to fix a few things and smooth out the interface.

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This looks like an interesting unit. Do any of you owners know what kinds of limitations there are with the comments field? I downloaded the FAQ and the user's manual from the DeLorme site but didn't see it speak to that.

 

The Garmin 60CSx I have has a very small text length for its waypoint comments field which is disappointing. I'd really like to have a unit that gets me to paperless caching.

 

Thanks,

--tim

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This looks like an interesting unit. Do any of you owners know what kinds of limitations there are with the comments field? I downloaded the FAQ and the user's manual from the DeLorme site but didn't see it speak to that.

 

The Garmin 60CSx I have has a very small text length for its waypoint comments field which is disappointing. I'd really like to have a unit that gets me to paperless caching.

 

Thanks,

--tim

256 characters are allowed in the comment filed and yes, it makes for great paperless caching :(

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What Ben said. GSAK allows one to put a lot of data into a comment field of that size.

 

One secondary limitation, though (correct me, Ben, if you've seen differently), is that only two lines of the comment will display at a time, requiring one to scroll through a lengthy comment. I'm hopeful that we'll be able to persuade Delorme to do some firmware modifications to make the PN-20 a closer approximation of the mythical unitary geocaching device. Selecting the highlighted comment to give it a display screen of its own seems like an easy immediate design change to implement. (I think I'll go post the suggestion now while I'm thinking of it).

 

I think I'll still bring my PDA with me, mostly because I like to have descriptions with me in the field, but also because I find it easier to read lengthy hints.

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One quick comment -- it's cool to see that DeLorme has forums set up.... especially cool that they've got one dedicated to suggestions. Do they take user comments seriously? I had sent in several comments to Garmin about my unit and got a form letter like response and that's about it. One of my complaints back then was the same one I raised in this thread -- the comment field is too short for waypoints. The only way to get around this (besides using a PDA) is to convert the waypoints to POIs, but that's not the most straightforward approach.

 

--tim

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What Ben said. GSAK allows one to put a lot of data into a comment field of that size.

 

One secondary limitation, though (correct me, Ben, if you've seen differently), is that only two lines of the comment will display at a time, requiring one to scroll through a lengthy comment. I'm hopeful that we'll be able to persuade Delorme to do some firmware modifications to make the PN-20 a closer approximation of the mythical unitary geocaching device. Selecting the highlighted comment to give it a display screen of its own seems like an easy immediate design change to implement. (I think I'll go post the suggestion now while I'm thinking of it).

 

I think I'll still bring my PDA with me, mostly because I like to have descriptions with me in the field, but also because I find it easier to read lengthy hints.

It does only show two lines at a time but you can scroll one line at a time instead of one character at a time (that is how it was prior to public release, one letter at a time - that hurt but they at least set it up so that you can scroll one line at a time) which is a life saver.

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Do they take user comments seriously?

--tim

Some of them they do and some they don't. They will at least tell you if they do.

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Do they take user comments seriously?

 

--tim

My take is that it's pretty early in the product cycle, so it remains to be seen how many suggestions they implement. And, I would certainly have to acknowledge, not every suggestion *should* be implemented. But I do have a sense that Delorme welcomes, appreciates, and considers most or all of the suggestions offered. That's a heckuva lot more than I can say for my sense of how Magellan viewed suggestions. That felt like a black hole of communication.

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I've been considering getting one, but the last I checked, you still couldn't use the SD card to store waypoint files. All waypoint have to be loaded into internal memory, which is rather limiting. When the unit will accept SD cards up to what, 2GB, you should be able to use it for waypoints as well as maps.

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I've been considering getting one, but the last I checked, you still couldn't use the SD card to store waypoint files. All waypoint have to be loaded into internal memory, which is rather limiting. When the unit will accept SD cards up to what, 2GB, you should be able to use it for waypoints as well as maps.

At 75 MB, the internal memory is not too bad but I am with you on wanting to be able to store tracks and waypoints on the SD card. Hopefully they will address this in an upcoming update. I'm sure that this is on their list but was not high enough up on the last update.

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What chipset is this and how does it compare to the SIRF in the Garmin units? Or is it the same thing :)

 

High-Performance Technology

Features STMicroelectronics chipset with SiGE RF front-end and DeLorme firmware for outstanding signal acquisition and retention. Works equally well under dense foliage or in-vehicle.

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What chipset is this and how does it compare to the SIRF in the Garmin units? Or is it the same thing :blink:

 

High-Performance Technology

Features STMicroelectronics chipset with SiGE RF front-end and DeLorme firmware for outstanding signal acquisition and retention. Works equally well under dense foliage or in-vehicle.

Works very well under tree canopy.

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I I notice more and more Internet stores charging sales tax. Anyone else noticed this?

 

I inquired about this when I ordered mine last week and they stated they have a physical presence in all 50 states, and they have to charge sales tax to each state they are located in.

 

I just got mine delivered a couple minutes ago... still trying to figure out the software/downloading aspects of it. But the user interface on the GPSr is straight forward. Not too far off the Meridian color i'm used to. The software isn't bad either, just a little getting used to I think.

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Update: Don't think I can stand the (lack of) speed of this unit so it'll probably get returned. Some maps took 22 seconds to refresh, and I have only loaded the delorme maps, no aerial maps. Just slow. Also don't like how it moves the cursor accross the screen and when you get to the edge, it redraws the map and starts you over from the center. By the time it finishes redrawing the map, your back the edge. I wish you could keep the cursor centered. Several smaller things that I'm used to on my Meridian Color that aren't available. But it's slower than the 5 yr old Meridian I'm using. SLOW

 

Screen is sharp and bright! Maps are really nice! Reception is Great!

Edited by GeoXterra

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Update: Don't think I can stand the (lack of) speed of this unit so it'll probably get returned.

I agree that you're hitting on the Achilles heel of the unit. The most charitable thing I can say is that the processor is doing a lot of work in there, but I do wish it was more up to the task. I am learning to use workarounds (e.g., keeping the waypoints down to a couple hundred rather than near the 1000 maximum) to reduce the load. Smaller, rather than larger, map files help, too.

 

But they are workarounds, and those who want the crisp functioning we see with other models may feel frustrated. I value the maps enough to make it a worthwhile compromise for myself (and I do feel some optimism that future firmware releases will streamline the processing demands to make the unit more responsive--still, that's in the future).

 

But I did want to suggest that, if you haven't done it, be sure to give the new firmware upgrade a try. I recall seeing 25 second screen redraw times with the 1.1 firmware, and I'm seeing 3-second redraws consistently with the 1.2. I'm not certain that the firmware is the difference, but it's worth a try.

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If I have a large ADP map, I only see a longer re-draw time at one certain zoom level, other than that, I have not have any problems. I have the entire state of PA on the SD card (stripped down to a 62.9 MB file) and have zero issues with the re-draw time. Make sure that you go into the Map Setup Page-->Data Management and uncheck all the maps that you are not using. Hope this helps some.

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And when I did all that (sort of since some is inaccurate), I got the waypoint nicely placed on the computer, but nothing in the GPS. At this point, I think the only way to get it into the GPS is manually entering it on the unit.

 

I was reading over the manual on how to use this to geocache is it me or does this sound a lot more complicated than a garmin unit?

 

1. Visit www.geocaching.com and select the geocache you want to try to find.

2. Save the geocache’s .loc file to your computer.

3. Open Topo USA and click the Draw tab.

4. Click File to open the draw file editing area.

5. Click Import. The Import Draw File dialog box displays.

6. From the Files of type drop-down list, select LOC file (*.loc).

7. Browse to the location where you saved the .loc file in step 2, select the file, and then click

Open. The draw objects in the imported file display. A new draw file is automatically created for the imported file.

8. Click Done to return to the Draw dialog area.

9. Click the Handheld Export tab.

10. With the map centered on the geocache area, click the Edit tool and then click the rectangles

on the map that cover the map area you want to export to the Earthmate GPS PN-20.

11. Name and save your map package.

12. Click the Exchange button in the Topo USA toolbar.

13. Send the geocache waypoint layer and map package to the device and then click Done.

Once the map and waypoint are loaded on the Earthmate GPS PN-20, they use the Waypoints Page

to locate the coordinate that was provided in the cache’s clue. Once the waypoint is found, they

create a route from their current position (home) to the waypoint location.

14. Press MENU and then select Waypoints.

15. Highlight the geocache waypoint from the list and then press ENTER.

16. Highlight the default symbol and press ENTER. Scroll to the geocache symbol and then press

ENTER.

17. Use the arrow keypad to highlight the Route button and then press ENTER.

18. Use the arrow keypad to highlight the Navigate button and then press ENTER.

19. Press PAGE until the Compass Page displays.

20. Use the Compass Page to find the necessary direction of travel. The bearing arrow (large green

arrow) points in the direction of the next stop in the route. Use the bearing arrow to determine

the correct direction of travel towards the waypoint.

Once they arrive at the cache, they take a trinket from the cache and leave a pencil they bought while

on a recent trip to Niagara Falls and then update the waypoint symbol on the Earthmate GPS PN-20

to the geocache found symbol. When they return from their adventure, they visit the cache’s page on

www.geocaching.com and enter a log about their experience.

 

OR

 

Open GPX or loc file in map source

Click send button in the tool bar

press and hold find

select Geocache

select the cache desired (nearest is already selected)

press enter

find cache, mark found, then find next is displayed.

 

I am thinking about a PN-20 or a 60csx and I really value simplicity.

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And when I did all that (sort of since some is inaccurate), I got the waypoint nicely placed on the computer, but nothing in the GPS. At this point, I think the only way to get it into the GPS is manually entering it on the unit.

It really is easy using the Exchange box within Topo to upload waypoints. Make sure that it is a Waypoint file and not a Draw file.

 

You might also want to check and see if you have your waypoints hidden or not in the PN-20 under the Map Setup menu.

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Hi, I am interested in buying one of the PN-20 or a Garmin 60CSX. But how slow is the processor in the PN-20? I like the fact that the Delorme comes with maps.

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I owned a unit for three weeks in April and in all that time I could not manage to find one geocache with it. Now if you look at my stats you will see that I am no inexperienced noob at geocaching and I do own 5 other GPSrs.

 

I bought the unit because I intend to navigate team Spinner to victory at GC10Z05. This year topo maps are mandatory equipment and I figured I would hedge our bets by getting a GPSr that had the "best" topo maps on the display along with aerial imagery.

 

If you want to track my experiences with the unit you can do that at the DeLorme forum; I used the same name there.

 

I did hold on to my unit as long as I could with the understanding that updates were going to solve some of my problems. When I tested it, the Goto function was missing (talk about fundamental ommission); instead it had a Route feature that you were supposed to use, but that failed to work properly for me.

 

It is important to note that the fundamental concept of dealing with waypoints is very different when you build your entire waypoint dataset directly into the topo map as a waypoint layer. Unfortunately, the Route function had a bug so that while it would route to some mappoints, it would not do it for the ones I created. If I placed them onto the map as “geocaches” then things worked. It was frustrating trying to figure out what would work. The unit’s response to button pressings is ridiculously slow. Many times you have to wait a long time (10-15 seconds each) for a screen to show and I couldn't be sure if something got hung up or if you are advancing to the screen you want. I would not blame to processor on this; this is a fundamental programming flaw in that the software engineers placed higher priority on the GPSr getting to finish tasks it started, than to attend to user input. Very frustrating.

 

I was willing to live with all that given the purpose for which I bought the unit. But I absolutely had to have high quality maps (not having that will get my team killed, possibly literally). When I started driving around town with the PN-20 showing my position on the map, I noticed that the maps for my town were totally messed up. On the Northwest side of town everything was 200 ft off in one direction; in my neighborhood everything was off by a similar distance in a different direction, and directly north, within about a half mile from my home, things were off by 1000 ft. I can draw better maps on the back of napkins with a crayon. I was willing to believe that other areas of the country were better, but other users in the DeLorme forum mentioned that they has similar issues. Some lame excuse about maps never being universally accurate was true, but no consolation for my situation. I do agree that all map products have flaws; what I was experiencing was ridiculous by any standard. I do recognize that this is a flaw in Topo, rather than the GPSr.

 

So as the 30 day period from purchase was running out, and no updates were coming to fix the things I needed fixed, I returned the unit.

 

I would add that if DeLorme get’s this unit working right, then I will buy it again. It is an amazing concept and I am confident that all the flaws could be worked out someday. This unit has the potential to be a significant improvement over Garmin's approach to mapping GPSrs.

 

The chip set did do what it claimed; it definitely competes well with the SiRF chips in my 60CSx. I was impressed. The internal memory in addition to 2gig SD card you can buy fairly cheap elsewhere give you incredible storage capabilities. I never managed to fill it up.

 

I would also say that if you see a side-by-side comparison at the DeLorme forum between the PN-20 and the 60Cx, be aware that this table was not factual when I looked at it. The screen of the PN-20 is smaller than the 60CSx and to compare like products you really have to compare the correct bundling of maps, memory, etc which is not a simple matter.

 

If you do buy one: don’t bother with the DeLorme SD card or the Lithium battery; they are not worth the funds you’re spending extra. Be prepared to be very patient with the slow response of the unit. I never did test the aerial imagery on the unit and wished I had (here too, be aware of how little you get free with the unit - the price for what you would need for regional geocaching is somewhat staggering); I just ran out of time with all the other things I needed to get done.

 

At this point in time, if you are choosing between a 60Cx and a PN-20, you will be happy with the former but not the latter, even if getting the same maps into the GPSr will cost you substantially more with the 60CSx.

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Good post.

 

Waypoint managment is something that NG Topo strayed away from. They also made them part of the maps in the newer version of their maps. Yes they had some interesting ideas but they got rid of basic funcationality. The concept of "throw away waypoints'. This weeks batch of caches er... waypoints are not next weeks and we need to be able to keep information current.

 

Unless I missunderstood how Delorme deals with waypoints.

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Thank you for that post Hynr. It was very detailed and answered most of my questions. Now i guess i have to do research and figure out what software i want. lol another hard and long task.

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I don't contest Hnyr's detailed post, but I would offer for the record that things seem to be working much more satisfactorily for me (and I know Benjamin to be pretty happy with the PN-20, too). The firmware upgrade this month was a definite improvement, although there are other improvements yet needed. The GoTo function (such as it is) now functions well. Delorme does seem to be responding to these needs with two firmware upgrades since the product release at the beginning of this year, and they are working now on the next one.

 

I would remind that the 30-day return period Hynr exercised does allow one to try for oneself to see how it works for your needs. Some people have not felt the PN-20 is up to their standards, but a number of people have been sufficiently pleased. Delorme says that the PN-20 is selling well (yeah, I know you have to look at the source, but lacking contrary information I am inclined to accept them at their word).

 

If you are trying to decide between the 60csx or the PN-20, I am sure that the 60csx will have better autorouting features. And it's already a mature, polished product. But you should try to check out the maps available for the two models so you can see the differences there, where the PN-20 will excel. Then you need to decide your priorities.

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Anyone else have a problem with the search funtion. I couldn't pull up restaurants or other catagories that were listed. It would search and search for a couple minutes, lock up, and restart on it's own. I had the maps loaded and newest updates.

 

Gonna ship it back tomorrow

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Anyone else have a problem with the search funtion. I couldn't pull up restaurants or other catagories that were listed. It would search and search for a couple minutes, lock up, and restart on it's own. I had the maps loaded and newest updates.

 

Gonna ship it back tomorrow

There are not a lot of POIs in Topo to begin with compared to the Street Atlas so you won't get a lot. They are going to have the PN-20 support SA and all the POIs at some point, when I don't know but they are working o it. I think that they might incorporate the POIs into T6 but not 100% sure about that.

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I owned a unit for three weeks in April and in all that time I could not manage to find one geocache with it. Now if you look at my stats you will see that I am no inexperienced noob at geocaching and I do own 5 other GPSrs.

 

I bought the unit because I intend to navigate team Spinner to victory at GC10Z05. This year topo maps are mandatory equipment and I figured I would hedge our bets by getting a GPSr that had the "best" topo maps on the display along with aerial imagery.

 

If you want to track my experiences with the unit you can do that at the DeLorme forum; I used the same name there.

 

I did hold on to my unit as long as I could with the understanding that updates were going to solve some of my problems. When I tested it, the Goto function was missing (talk about fundamental ommission); instead it had a Route feature that you were supposed to use, but that failed to work properly for me.

 

It is important to note that the fundamental concept of dealing with waypoints is very different when you build your entire waypoint dataset directly into the topo map as a waypoint layer. Unfortunately, the Route function had a bug so that while it would route to some mappoints, it would not do it for the ones I created. If I placed them onto the map as “geocaches” then things worked. It was frustrating trying to figure out what would work. The unit’s response to button pressings is ridiculously slow. Many times you have to wait a long time (10-15 seconds each) for a screen to show and I couldn't be sure if something got hung up or if you are advancing to the screen you want. I would not blame to processor on this; this is a fundamental programming flaw in that the software engineers placed higher priority on the GPSr getting to finish tasks it started, than to attend to user input. Very frustrating.

 

I was willing to live with all that given the purpose for which I bought the unit. But I absolutely had to have high quality maps (not having that will get my team killed, possibly literally). When I started driving around town with the PN-20 showing my position on the map, I noticed that the maps for my town were totally messed up. On the Northwest side of town everything was 200 ft off in one direction; in my neighborhood everything was off by a similar distance in a different direction, and directly north, within about a half mile from my home, things were off by 1000 ft. I can draw better maps on the back of napkins with a crayon. I was willing to believe that other areas of the country were better, but other users in the DeLorme forum mentioned that they has similar issues. Some lame excuse about maps never being universally accurate was true, but no consolation for my situation. I do agree that all map products have flaws; what I was experiencing was ridiculous by any standard. I do recognize that this is a flaw in Topo, rather than the GPSr.

 

So as the 30 day period from purchase was running out, and no updates were coming to fix the things I needed fixed, I returned the unit.

 

I would add that if DeLorme get’s this unit working right, then I will buy it again. It is an amazing concept and I am confident that all the flaws could be worked out someday. This unit has the potential to be a significant improvement over Garmin's approach to mapping GPSrs.

 

The chip set did do what it claimed; it definitely competes well with the SiRF chips in my 60CSx. I was impressed. The internal memory in addition to 2gig SD card you can buy fairly cheap elsewhere give you incredible storage capabilities. I never managed to fill it up.

 

I would also say that if you see a side-by-side comparison at the DeLorme forum between the PN-20 and the 60Cx, be aware that this table was not factual when I looked at it. The screen of the PN-20 is smaller than the 60CSx and to compare like products you really have to compare the correct bundling of maps, memory, etc which is not a simple matter.

 

If you do buy one: don’t bother with the DeLorme SD card or the Lithium battery; they are not worth the funds you’re spending extra. Be prepared to be very patient with the slow response of the unit. I never did test the aerial imagery on the unit and wished I had (here too, be aware of how little you get free with the unit - the price for what you would need for regional geocaching is somewhat staggering); I just ran out of time with all the other things I needed to get done.

 

At this point in time, if you are choosing between a 60Cx and a PN-20, you will be happy with the former but not the latter, even if getting the same maps into the GPSr will cost you substantially more with the 60CSx.

 

I just returned my PN-20 to Delorme yesterday. I have been using it for a couple of weeks and have really wanted to justify keeping it. However, it feels like I am driving a sports car with a one cylinder engine. I like the maps alot, but waiting for them to pop up on the screen is unbearable. If I calculate a route and do not turn where I am suppose to, it will ask if I want to recalculate a new route. I say yes and while it is recalculating I have driven from 6 blocks to a mile before it finishes - then it wants to recalculate again because I have gone too far.

 

If you are a geocacher, this unit is NOT for you. All the lists I imported into the unit wind up in one big list. When you bring up the list, go get a drink of coffee or something because it will take a LOOOOOONG time for the list to populate the screen.

 

I would love this unit with a faster processer and if it were more geocacher friendly. I don't think it is ready for Prime Time yet.

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If you are a geocacher, this unit is NOT for you. All the lists I imported into the unit wind up in one big list. When you bring up the list, go get a drink of coffee or something because it will take a LOOOOOONG time for the list to populate the screen.

 

It is glacial if you try to load anything close to the 1000 waypoints the PN-20 is capable of handling. Keeping waypoints down to a couple hundred make it quite usable IMO. I very much want and hope that the next firmware upgrade will allow for multiple waypoint files to be stored in either internal or SD memory. That would allow the device to carry the number of waypoints I want but in manageable chunks.

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And when I did all that (sort of since some is inaccurate), I got the waypoint nicely placed on the computer, but nothing in the GPS. At this point, I think the only way to get it into the GPS is manually entering it on the unit.

It really is easy using the Exchange box within Topo to upload waypoints. Make sure that it is a Waypoint file and not a Draw file.

 

You might also want to check and see if you have your waypoints hidden or not in the PN-20 under the Map Setup menu.

 

Just got my PN-20 on Friday. I've been using the bluelogger with my Treo 650 for over a year now, wanted an all in one, mainly for batterly life and the extra map views.

 

I know I spent a good 2 hours trying different methods. I finally was able to import the waypoints. In the exchange box, on the left side, select BOTH the Map layer and the Waypoint layer to send to the GPS. You will probably need to do them individually. I kept importing the map over and over, without having waypoints show. Finally after reading this over and over I figured it out.

 

Now, can anyone help me with the maps. The delorme sales literature makes it appear that you can toggle between map views by pressing the page key. However, I only see the predominate layer. I may want to change views from topo to ariel. Is there a way to change views without having to reprioritize the layers? This could be very time consuming if that is the only way to do it.

 

Becky

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Now, can anyone help me with the maps. The delorme sales literature makes it appear that you can toggle between map views by pressing the page key. However, I only see the predominate layer. I may want to change views from topo to ariel. Is there a way to change views without having to reprioritize the layers? This could be very time consuming if that is the only way to do it.

Becky

If you have updated the PN-20 to the 1.2v firmware, from the Map Page you can hit the Menu button and there will be, at the top, Turn Imagery On/Off if you have a map cut with aerial imagery in your list of maps.

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Man! Lot of negative stuff. I've only had my PN-20 for a very short time but I love it!

For me, it's about the maps. And the mapping capabilities on this puppy blows everything else I've seen out of the water.

I would admit that it can take a little getting used to, but well worth the education. I haven't experienced the refresh issue at all. I did have a problem importing my first couple of maps but that was (I think) because they were just too large. You know, Like the entire state of Oregon in one file/map.

 

I also admit that I am nowhere near as dedicated to this sport as some of you posting here, nor am I as experienced. I am also aware that honest opinions are important. I was just suprised to see these comments about something I had just gotten all giddy about.

Bottom line for me - I'm a DeLorme believer. For the first product out of the gate, I think they did great.

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