Some

[MouseFart]

I had some free time today so I went around to a few of my caches to check their condition and restock them. I do this hobby simply to just have fun and to make it fun for others, but it will just never cease to amaze me how some geocachers take advantage of the hobby.

 

Personally, I could care less for collecting anything from other peoples cache sites, but I always leave something really neat or handy for someone else when I visit their cache. I take pride in my own cache's being well stocked with what I would call "good SWAG". I stock or trade things such as mini-mag lights, pocket calculators, a variety of nice key chains (the ones with mini 3' measuring tapes are the first to go), small variety kids games, compasses, batteries and so on.

 

Today I checked 5 of my sites and found that all were empty of what I had stocked. I emptied out all the items that had been left in trade which included: 1 dime, 2 nickels, 7 pennies, 1 budweizer twist-off beer cap (WOW), 1 local car dealership rubber advertisement key chain, 1 rubber wristband, 2 polished rocks, 4 fast food kiddie toys (one of them missing an arm) and one plastic ring. The only decent items left in trade were a pack of fishing lures and a $1 bill.

Edited March 6, 2007 by MouseFart

[+tollerdudes]

I had some free time today so I went around to a few of my caches to check their condition and restock them. I do this hobby simply to just have fun and to make it fun for others, but it will just never cease to amaze me how some geocachers take advantage of the hobby.

 

Personally, I could care less for collecting anything from other peoples cache sites, but I always leave something really neat or handy for someone else when I visit their cache. I take pride in my own cache's being well stocked with what I would call "good SWAG". I stock or trade things such as mini-mag lights, pocket calculators, a variety of nice key chains (the ones with mini 3' measuring tapes are the first to go), small variety kids games, compasses, batteries and so on.

 

Today I checked 5 of my sites and found that all were empty of what I had stocked. I emptied out all the items that had been left in trade which included: 1 dime, 2 nickels, 7 pennies, 1 budweizer twist-off beer cap (WOW), 1 local car dealership rubber advertisement key chain, 1 rubber wristband, 2 polished rocks, 4 fast food kiddie toys (one of them missing an arm) and one plastic ring. The only decent items left in trade were a pack of fishing lures and a $1 bill.

 

I would argue that those are also decent SWAG.

[+worldtraveler]

The world is populated by givers (those who try to give more than they take) and takers (parasitic jerks). It sounds from your post like you're a giver. Just as in the rest of the world, the geocaching community has more than enough takers. They think they're entitled to any and all they can get. The concept of giving is so foreign to their thinking that they can rationalize leaving a scarred up golf ball or broken McToy as a fair trade for a mag light.

 

I'm sorry for your experience, but it is all too common. I have found one thing that has worked for me, however. I created a somewhat challenging paid-member-only multi cache that has survived several years now with virtually no degradation to the the cache contents. It doesn't get a lot of visitors, but most who go to the trouble of finding it trade fairly.

[X-isle]

I do this hobby simply to just have fun and to make it fun for others, but it will just never cease to amaze me how some geocachers take advantage of the hobby.

 

 

Apparently, you are just now realizing the low and dispicable nature of your neighbors and mankind in general. I appreciate the fact that you are willing to go the extra mile to make caching a rewarding experience for those that find yours. But if you expect that like swag will be left in kind, you are experiencing a flaskback from some primo gold you smoked while attending Berkley. Granted, I have only a few finds under my belt. And I have only netted a bungee cord and a plastic dinosaur so far. But I know the nature of the species you are dealing with. Frankly, I am surprized there aren't rogue cachers roaming about plundering every cach they can locate. It's an absolute miracle! If anyone is expecting mini-mags and hunting rifles or silver ingets at my caches...sorry. You are in for a surprize. I leave cheap little bobbles that are useful but easily replaced. If I were a man of riches, my caches would be legendary. But alas, I'm not. And I'm also not disappointed with what others leave in turn, or steal, or I lose to the elements. I don't disagree with your post at all. I just assumed it was common knowledge....kinda like Santa.

[+Isonzo Karst]

There's a very high turn over in geocaching. Folks that discover the game, and cache for a single season. These cachers are often not really prepared to trade, and perhaps don't intend to. But when they open the cache, they want something, so they trade out of whatever is in their pockets or fanny pack.

Hence the rapid decline of cache contents. It's the nature of the game.

 

I only upgrade cache contents on a couple of my caches (I used to do all of them, but it gets pricey). Also as worldtraveler said

a challenging paid-member-only multi cache

 

will hold up well. And, in general, the further from the parking, the better the cache contents will hold up over time. A cache that's an all day commitment will involve advance planning. That cacher will either be prepared to trade, or won't trade. Stocking those caches is a bit of a conundrum. I like to leave nice swag, but I also know that likely the cachers that work those hides won't trade at all! I do make a nylon camo bag (more or less our signature item), and those will generally be taken.

Edited March 6, 2007 by Isonzo Karst

[+halffast]

As all have said it gets to the point that you give up on stocking and keeping good swag in your caches.Only to have to do it again and again.I also restock every time I do a maintanance check.It just makes it nice for the next to visitors.

[top con]

Good morning...

 

i hate to post this, but i feel i must...just to stick up for us NON-paying members (and just because we don't pay doesn't make us second-class.)

 

i don't think that making a cache PMO will solve your problems...and i feel that resorting to that as a solution is faulty reasoning. here's why.

 

a.-just because someone pays to use the site doesn't mean they will trade better. and from what i've seen, a lot of pm's don't even trade at all. so you'd be left with a cache that is full o' stuff that never gets traded. not saying that is fact, but just how i take it.

 

b.- you would be selling your cache short, i feel, if you made it PMO, because the "commoners" would not have a chance to go after it. and those commoners are a big part of this game.

 

i think that if you are willing to go to the trouble to hide caches and stock them, then you should be understanding of the fact that "swag" comes and goes. it's not your fault that people don't know a fair trade from a hole in the ground, and again, just because someone pays money to use the site doesn't garuantee that they know that either.

 

i just think that maybe you should make the caches more challenging, not resort to PMO status. i know that won't solve the problem, but honestly, i don't think anything will. i just hate to see more cahces go PMO for no other reason than swag.

[+worldtraveler]

Good morning...

 

i hate to post this, but i feel i must...just to stick up for us NON-paying members (and just because we don't pay doesn't make us second-class.)...

There is no need to stick up for non-paying members in this thread because nothing has been written specifically against them.

 

The OP shared his experience regarding cache contents degradation. I shared my experience regarding preventing it by creating a challenging, paid member only cache. It's not theory or "faulty reasoning", and it's not a slam against non-paying members; it's a solution that has actually worked for me. One other poster has affirmed my solution. I don't know whether that affirmation is based on experience or supposition, but I read nothing in his post that I could construe as denegrading toward non-paying members.

[+JoGPS]

Good morning...

 

i hate to post this, but i feel i must...just to stick up for us NON-paying members (and just because we don't pay doesn't make us second-class.)...

There is no need to stick up for non-paying members in this thread because nothing has been written specifically against them.

 

The OP shared his experience regarding cache contents degradation. I shared my experience regarding preventing it by creating a challenging, paid member only cache. It's not theory or "faulty reasoning", and it's not a slam against non-paying members; it's a solution that has actually worked for me. One other poster has affirmed my solution. I don't know whether that affirmation is based on experience or supposition, but I read nothing in his post that I could construe as denegrading toward non-paying members.

 

agree fully with worldtraveler

 

Joe

[+Michelle_mike]

Might need two for this one.

Anyone got a coke to share.

[top con]

I fully agree that you did not say anything against regular members. it was not my intention to spark that sentiment. i really meant nothing of that kind. the only reason i brought it up was because i feel that resorting to that mothodology to protect caches just isn't a good thing to spread. you feel otherwise and that's great. i'm glad that making caches PMO has helped. we are getting off the point of the thread, i just wanted to caution the OP that making caches PMO might not be the magic bullet that thye are looking for. that's all.

 

and to be honest, i havent found any PMO caches, so maybe they are better. but personally, i would have to think that just by making a cache PMO will not solve all problems. that's all i was saying. and i just hope that not eveeryone will take that road in the future. that's all...i meant no ill-will. besides, there's already a thread where we can argue that pointtill we're blue.

[top con]

are we all still freinds?!!

[+worldtraveler]

are we all still freinds?!!

Absolutely!

[ol'dad]

This newbie has to agree with Mousefart (what a name!!!!). I haven't even started in this game yet, but I've still got an opinion on this.

 

It's sad, but many people in this world are takers and not givers. I just hope that by trading up, maybe we can encourage others to do a little better the next time.

 

Also, I have no caches of my own, but when I do, I plan to visit them monthly and keep them moderately stocked - no items worth over $20 and none under $1 (to me that is - as I said in another post, one man's trash is another man's treasure). Does that sound reasonable? Like I said I'm an extreme newbie and am anxious to learn. I also plan to plant some small antiques/collectibles as I can find them - I hope that I won't get hammered that I put in some "old junk" then.

 

If I can do a little better each day than I did the day before, then I will have done well.

[+wimseyguy]

Ya know, if you only hide micros you won't have these problems.

 

j/k or stirring the pot a bit-but I quit caring about anything in the cache except the log book a long time ago.

[+QSparrow]

I agree it can be disappointing and sad in a way. I certainly have added by far more in value to the caches I've been to than I've taken. I usually don't even take anything as there is nothing worth taking in there! and I almost always leave at least 1 item, which is almost always brand new. So here is how I look at it. If it bothers you, then just stock your own caches with small stuff that can be traded up or even, and just trade even when you go a'cachin'. There's one cache near me called "Poor man's cache" which was initially stocked with pennies, to be traded up for. I think that's kind of funny. And if you want to keep giving out good stuff, then don't let it bother you that's it's going to get traded down. Just expect it, and know that you are certainly adding enjoyment to other people's experience. It's not going to change, that's for sure.

 

p.s. yeah there sure is a lot of crap that clutters up the caches. I've been tempted to clean up other people's caches of the junk but I'm not sure what the etiquette is on this. Any opinions?

Edited March 7, 2007 by QSparrow

[+wimseyguy]

p.s. yeah there sure is a lot of crap that clutters up the caches. I've been tempted to clean up other people's caches of the junk but I'm not sure what the etiquette is on this. Any opinions?

 

If you own the cache, you are responsible for the contents. If you are just finding the cache, then trade fairly.

[Treasure Pirate]

Good discussion. I often feel bad when I plunder a cache of its swag and don't trade fairly. I quickly get over it though, and make it up later by leaving more goodies in other caches.

I've introduced 3 separate groups of friends and relatives to geocaching, and their kids really loved it. As some of you know, when a kid sees all that swag, they just have to have something, whether you trade or not. On one occassion, 5 kids each had to have something out of this nice cache we found in AZ. We plundered that one pretty good--so I felt I had to leave a couple bucks to bring it back to whole again. It probably didn't, but boy those kids were stoked.

I do aim to ALWAYS carry swag with me when caching, just in case the kids really want something.

[+gh patriot]

I cant tell you how many times that there has been so much stuff in the cache that you can bareley fit it all in. Because it is so full, some of the contents get wrecked. Personally I just sign logs and trade sig cards. I think that there are a lot of lazy cache owners out there. I see multiple logs over a long period of time saying contents wet, log book full etc. I enjoy the hunt for the cache irreguardless of the condition of the cache. If the cache is too full or the contents damaged or wet or whatever ill email the owner or post a needs maintence log. But if i do start trading swag it will always be even or up.

[+QSparrow]

... and make it up later by leaving more goodies in other caches.

I think that's fair.

[+gh patriot]

I always appreciate a well maintained cache and thanks to all of the cache owners who put some effort into maintaining their caches!!!

[+QSparrow]

If you own the cache, you are responsible for the contents. If you are just finding the cache, then trade fairly.

And what if it's obviously been abandoned by the owner? In one case in particular I have asked the owner if I can adopt but have not heard anything back. It has a hole in the lid and is becoming ruined from the rain. But reading the FAQ it may be a long time before the adoption takes place. I feel sorry for it.

[+redcoyote12]

 

I do aim to ALWAYS carry swag with me when caching, just in case the kids really want something.

 

Yeah, I think taking kids might be contributing to the dilemma a bit. I take my 3 year old boy sometimes and he loves finding "treasure" with me, and there's a couple good swag items in his toybox at home that he loves from caches. Someday I'll sneak them out and put them back in circulation. Until then he won't notice a few Hot Wheels missing ... I hope!

[Suscrofa]

Trading is not the purpose of geocaching isn't ? Personally I take nothing, leave something except on rare occasion.

True it had to the fun when you are with kids and here I doubt the real value of the goodies matters.

I wish Geocaching existed when my kids were just that, kids !

 

For me it gives an opportunity to visit interesting places using high tech gadget and at the same time gives some fun when it is challenging (trip, quiz). I don't really like "drive in" cache unless may be far from home as I pick the one placed in landmarks.

 

Now to be even with the Gecocaching community and in order not to be just a "taker", the best trade is to place caches and try to make them worthwhile !

 

OK, put goodies (not junk) for the kids, it is a plus, true, but don't focus on the budget aspect of it.

[X-isle]

I have to agree. The principle objective of this game is locating a hidden cache, placed by another geocacher. The trinkets inside only add to the treasure fantasy. And I would venture to say that this "plunder" seldom sees the inside of ones house. I toss mine into a bag full of the swag that I carry for exchanging. It never leaves my vehicle. And if I may remind people, it is not the monetary value of the swag that counts. I have found very interesting items that cost mere pennies, (magnesium fire starters, flashlight D-rings, survival whistles, etc.). The quality of a cache can be summed up by the time involved stocking it, not the cost. There are many interesting tokens that can be gathered for next to nothing, and signify forethought and consideration. I don't require an expensive gift (or any gift at all) to make the cache worth the search.

[+worldtraveler]

Good discussion. I often feel bad when I plunder a cache of its swag and don't trade fairly. I quickly get over it though, and make it up later by leaving more goodies in other caches.

I've introduced 3 separate groups of friends and relatives to geocaching, and their kids really loved it. As some of you know, when a kid sees all that swag, they just have to have something, whether you trade or not. On one occassion, 5 kids each had to have something out of this nice cache we found in AZ. We plundered that one pretty good--so I felt I had to leave a couple bucks to bring it back to whole again. It probably didn't, but boy those kids were stoked.

I do aim to ALWAYS carry swag with me when caching, just in case the kids really want something.

As Adam, from Mythbusters, would say, "Now there's your problem!" I realize it may be difficult for a pirate, but until you learn to "just say no" to plundering, you are part of the problem.

Neither you nor the kids "just have to have something". If you are not prepared to trade fairly, you should simply sign the log and tell the kids they'll just have to wait because it wouldn't be right to take something without leaving something of similar value. Valuable life lesson there.

[Treasure Pirate]

 

I do aim to ALWAYS carry swag with me when caching, just in case the kids really want something.

As Adam, from Mythbusters, would say, "Now there's your problem!" I realize it may be difficult for a pirate, but until you learn to "just say no" to plundering, you are part of the problem.

Neither you nor the kids "just have to have something". If you are not prepared to trade fairly, you should simply sign the log and tell the kids they'll just have to wait because it wouldn't be right to take something without leaving something of similar value. Valuable life lesson there.

 

I can't disagree with that. Indeed, I have learned some valuable lessons in these few short months of geocaching, but I'll save those for another thread.

 

Some discussion here mentions leaving "quality" swag. I have in the plans a cache that will contain lots of new marketing giveaway type swag that I was thinking might be enjoyed by some (laser pointers, maglight flashlights, etc). Reading this thread has given me a new perspective on this, and I've now come to believe that it will be a neat cache for a short time, until the "quality" swag is gone and gets replaced by typical stuff of lesser quality. That's ok with me. If others loaded it with their neat marketing giveaway stuff too, as I initially intended, then the cache concept could live longer--but in reality, that would take some planning for someone to read about the cache and purposely bring a theme item to trade. I'm coming to peace with this whole perspective now and really am appreciating the cache for the journey it takes you on. Swag is just the bonus that adds to the pirate theme my Team Pirate/Princess and I enjoy.

[jrader63]

Often I find that the only items worth taking are the signature items that people leave in caches or geocache related souvenirs. For example, I recently picked up a pin that says "Heck yes, I am a Gila Valley Geocacher". It is a small simple pin with a picture of the Gila Valley on it. There are lots of cheap items like this that people usually look over, but are still worth taking. I value this kinds of items more because they are reminders of my geocaching experiences.

[+wimseyguy]

If you own the cache, you are responsible for the contents. If you are just finding the cache, then trade fairly.

And what if it's obviously been abandoned by the owner? In one case in particular I have asked the owner if I can adopt but have not heard anything back. It has a hole in the lid and is becoming ruined from the rain. But reading the FAQ it may be a long time before the adoption takes place. I feel sorry for it.

Yes, per the FAQ it will take some time, but you still can work with your reviewer to adopt a cache from a MIA owner. Have patience grasshopper.

[salmoned]

Swag is a gift from the hider to the finder, as is the hide itself. Any other attitude is fraught with grief. If something is left in exchange, that too is a gift. In other words, it's all good...

[+mikeslomka]

I'm getting ready to place my first 2 caches tomorrow. In them is all stuff that I paid a buck for(except the FTF). If it all goes missing on the first day, then I will happily go back and replace it all with more dollar store items. I don't think that there are many people who geocache strictly for the swag. In fact, if I had to make a guess, I would say that most of this swag just travels from one cache to the next. I keep some stuff in my pack that I use for trade. If my kids don't want it, or it's not appropriate, it will go into another cache somewhere down the line.

 

Let's face it, if you go out and spend a hundred dollars on a GPSr(a very cheap one), and more money on a PDA, and $50 on a tank full of gas, how excited are you really about a toy that you could get from McDonalds with a happy meal. Or any other little bit of swag that most people leave.

 

Now if somebody could tell me where they left last nights winning mega-million ticket, I may have to go raid that cache!!

[ol'dad]

Swag is a gift from the hider to the finder, as is the hide itself. Any other attitude is fraught with grief. If something is left in exchange, that too is a gift. In other words, it's all good...

Well Said!!

[+worldtraveler]

Swag is a gift from the hider to the finder, as is the hide itself. Any other attitude is fraught with grief. If something is left in exchange, that too is a gift. In other words, it's all good...

Actually, the stuff left in caches should be considered trade items, not gifts, according to the geocaching rules (excerpt pasted below):

What are the rules in Geocaching?

 

Geocaching is a relatively new phenomenon. Therefore, the rules are very simple:

 

1. Take something from the cache

 

2. Leave something in the cache

 

3. Write about it in the logbook

It's not "all good" when people selfishly disregard the rules of common courtesy and plunder a cache.

 

The "trade equal or trade up" suggestion was later added via the Geocachers' Creed (excerpt pasted below) when it became obvious many people were "trading down" and leaving caches in the sorry condition described in the OP of this thread.

If you exchange trade items, trade kindly: Consider what future finders would like and leave something equal to or better than what you take.

[GPS-Hermit]

I agree it is not all 'GOOD' - what is your contribution to the game - to make it better, the same, or express yourselfs in some pitiful manner by trading down. I have seen so many great comments by people who took the time to log how well they liked their trade items and what they did with them. I put a garden repair part in a cache and the next finder was thrilled to find it and used it the next day. People DO! care what they find and this sport is exciting when someone finds good stuff. Trade items reflect the caring part part of this game and is something to take pride in. It doesn't have to cost much but it certainly should reflect the quality of the trader. A dirty cut up golf ball show me disgust and I deplore it. Broken items, plastic junk, and stuff not fit for the dollar store garbage can are degrading to this game. It is a treasure hunt and it hurts me to see articles in the paper explaining to the public all about the sport where reporter went on a hunt and found not one single item of interest. I think it is just a matter one dedicating themselves to the quality of what they are doing. Why are we not complaining that someone went overboard putting something too good in the cache. I also am a little disappointed when the same person takes 3 items of quality. I believe one person - one item. Spend time in between caches thinking about what great things you can put in there and lets beef it up. WOW look what I found. Wow look how proud I am with what I left.

[+sbell111]

Swag is a gift from the hider to the finder, as is the hide itself. Any other attitude is fraught with grief. If something is left in exchange, that too is a gift. In other words, it's all good...

Actually, the stuff left in caches should be considered trade items, not gifts, ...

I think that salmoned was suggesting an attitude that will help people avoid being driven mad when cache swag makes the inevitable downward spiral; rather than making a statement regarding right or wrong trading habits.

[+Totem Clan]

I understand what folks are saying about the "low quality" of the normal swag, but I was wondering, how many of you got into Geocaching for the swag anyway? How many of you go out and brave the "wilds" for the swag? Also how many of us would cache even if there wasn't any swag?

 

I for one would.

[+Team LaLonde]

For what it's worth, I can't wait for the Home Builder's Show this weekend so I can pick up tons of decent swag. The admission is only a couple of bucks and I have to go anyway because we are in the middle of a bathroom remodel. Expos are a great source of pencils, pads, magnets, gadgets, gizmos, free tools and more. Auctions are also a good source of swag. Most of the time they sell off entire tables of miscellaneous stuff for five bucks if you wait until the end.

[+Totem Clan]

Hey I know how we can make sure there's good swag in the area caches.

 

 

Make sure you put good swag in all the caches you visit, and quit griping about things you just can't and won't ever fix.

 

 

Sorry, I'm done now.