Jump to content

New function - Report non-Compliant caches


ReadyOrNot

Recommended Posts

I think a new feature that allows anonymous submission of guideline infractions should be on each cache page. The submission would be sent to the areas reviewers and they could choose to follow-up in whatever manner they deemed appropriate.

 

What do you think?

Link to comment

I think a new feature that allows anonymous submission of guideline infractions should be on each cache page. The submission would be sent to the areas reviewers and they could choose to follow-up in whatever manner they deemed appropriate.

 

What do you think?

Why not just email the reviewer directly? I know that if I were a reviewer, I'd take a submission more seriously if a cacher were to put their name to it rather than submit it anonymously.

Link to comment

I think a new feature that allows anonymous submission of guideline infractions should be on each cache page. The submission would be sent to the areas reviewers and they could choose to follow-up in whatever manner they deemed appropriate.

 

What do you think?

 

Aside from other issues, I guess I do not understand the anonymous part. I see the hider maybe not seeing it (although even that I do not agree with) however why would you want to be anonymous reporting it to the reviewer?

 

Doesn't the Needs Maintenance and SBA cover this? Or even a note to the Contact or Reviewer email?

Link to comment

I think a new feature that allows anonymous submission of guideline infractions should be on each cache page. The submission would be sent to the areas reviewers and they could choose to follow-up in whatever manner they deemed appropriate.

 

What do you think?

Why not just email the reviewer directly? I know that if I were a reviewer, I'd take a submission more seriously if a cacher were to put their name to it rather than submit it anonymously.

 

Because people generally don't do that. It would be easier to just hit a button. It wouldn't be anonymous to the reviewer, just not displayed on the cache page.

Link to comment

Anonymous submissions of any type would open the door for abuse, I'd think. Besides, they'd never truly be anonymous from TPTB.

 

I'd think that if you're willing to speak up publicly, you should be willing to put your name on your words.

 

As mentioned in the other topic, that's true, but not realistic. In the real world, people can be mean spirited and many people probably don't report bad caches because they would be worried about some kind of backlash. I've seen it happen in our community and I think it's a real concern.

Link to comment

"Why not log a needs archived?"

 

Some people worry about retaliation if their actions are done publicly, even if it's correct to archive the cache.

 

"Why not write to the reviewer?"

 

Some people don't know who their reviewer is, or which one of several to write to. And some people worry that the reviewer would not agree with their report, and might not be fair to them.

 

"Why not write to the contact at geocaching.com address?"

 

Somewhat to my surprise, many people don't know you can do this, for just about any issue, from premium member account problems to travel bug orders to bad cache placements.

 

So the idea is worth discussing. A button on the cache page saying "Contact Geocaching.com to report an issue with this cache."

Link to comment
So the idea is worth discussing. A button on the cache page saying "Contact Geocaching.com to report an issue with this cache."

I agree. There's been a button like that on most forum software for a long time.

 

It could be as simple as a link going to a page detailing what you can do and how to report it. It could be a form for someone to fill out that is emailed to the reviewer on record.

 

Thing is, if anything more than a simple info page would effectively replace the SBA log-type. Could be you could morph the SBA logs into something similar.

Link to comment

Why the need to play enforcer? Why not just ignore the "non-compliant" cache and move on to another? If the hide is bad it will likely become apparent by the logs and most folks will eventually stop visting it anyway.

Bacause a new cacher might be the one to see this hide and hide a cache in the same manner, all the while not knowing this was not in compliance with the guidelines here. It has a snowball effect and will lead to more non-compliant caches being placed. This in turn could lead to communities and parks banning caching altogether. Then where will we be?

 

As a cacher you have an obligation to make sure the cache you place is within the guidelines and uses common sense, both in placement and permission. As the finder, if you find a cache that does not meet the guidelines, then your obligation is to report it, via the SBA option at this time, as the reviewers can not, and should not, be expected to know where every cache has been placed. We need to be the eyes and ears for our reviewers, and understand this is a way to protect this hobby in our local communities. Counting on the next cacher to report it is not practical. If there was a button to report these caches without being shown on the page as being the one, then I think more of these caches would be reported. As with anything I am sure there would be abuse, but IMHO that is the lesser of the two evils. People tend to not report caches because they do not want to suffer the payback from the disgruntled cacher who placed what they thought was a great cache, regardless of the number of violations it had. I think this would be a good thing to impliment, but am sure there would be growing pains to go along with it. Maybe it would help get caching back to where it was meant to be, within the guidelines and within common sense.

Link to comment

I agree with the OP's idea and fully with Keystones reasoning on it. It can't really be abused as any reviewer worth his or her salt will look into it before actually carrying out any action. people using it for malicious intent will soon get sussed out and will get ignored in the future.

 

Like a forum I do think that the local reviewer should know who has filed the concern. The cache owner need never know if it is justified, and if it isn't then they need never know it has actually happened.

Link to comment

It can't really be abused as any reviewer worth his or her salt will look into it before actually carrying out any action.

I think the abuse that was being referred to was people reporting caches for reasons other than guidleine violations. I am sure there will be a few people who will report a cache because they don't like it or think it isn't good or something, but most people will report it for guideline violations and other common sense issues.

 

I agree that all reviewer will look into something before acting on the words of one cacher reporting it. The best part of this is it allows for protection for the whistleblower. I am sure there are many cachers who don't report caches and turn the other way just because they fear the paybacks from the owner, and that is a shame.

Link to comment
It can't really be abused as any reviewer worth his or her salt will look into it before actually carrying out any action.

I agree that all reviewer will look into something before acting on the words of one cacher reporting it. The best part of this is it allows for protection for the whistleblower. I am sure there are many cachers who don't report caches and turn the other way just because they fear the paybacks from the owner, and that is a shame.
I agree. I think most people don't want to be viewed as the bad guy when it comes to reporting a guideline violation so they don't get reported. If you could remain anonymous, it would get more people to submit these violations. :anibad: Edited by TrailGators
Link to comment

Why the need to play enforcer? If the hide is bad it will likely become apparent by the logs and most folks will eventually stop visting it anyway.

 

Apparently not. Check out this cache listing:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...&Submit6=Go

 

This cache is now (after a listing update) clearly out of compliance as indicated in the cache listing itself, but that's only due to a single complaint back in November 2005. If the listing had been left as it was originally posted, there'd be no clue that it's out of compliance. And there's no indication of problems within the last five logs, the ones you normally see.

 

Fact is, I don't consider this cache a serious problem *because* it makes clear in the listing what to expect. IMHO, it was worse when the listing didn't mention it, you just got there and found the propaganda in the cache. However, it's been suggested that this cache needs to have the cache listing edited to be in compliance, with the *contents* of the cache being a smaller issue.

 

It might be a question of how the listing gets edited. Perhaps making it clear what's in the cache without being as preachy about it would be better.

 

-- Kirbert

Link to comment

Why the need to play enforcer?

 

Here's another example for consideration:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...99-6d524913296d

 

After a couple of unsuccessful attempts to find the way to this cache, I decyphered the hint. The hint took me to a spot where I was facing new "No Trespassing" signs. So I posted a SBA log. The owner replied (using an earlier date for some reason, so it's out of order) that there were other ways to the cache. Hence, the cache has not been archived -- but the hint still sends you to the spot where you're facing No Trespassing signs.

 

I've done all I can do, and perhaps that's all that should be done. But I won't ignore No Trespassing signs.

Link to comment

I am sure there are many cachers who don't report caches and turn the other way just because they fear the paybacks from the owner, and that is a shame.

 

There's also the possibility that the finder is unsure whether it's out of compliance or not. Basically, he'd like to point out the situation to the reviewer -- who presumably is an expert on compliance -- just in case it is. Ideally, the reviewer will check it out, and if not in compliance appropriate corrective action will be taken, but if within compliance the finder will learn something without anyone other than the reviewer knowing that a concern was raised.

Link to comment

Another issue just occurred to me. If a means of reporting non-compliant caches is established, it should be set up so non-members can use it. IOW, the owner of the property can use it. "This geocache is on my land, and it needs to be removed ASAP!" Of course, I dunno how many muggles would actually go to the effort of looking up the cache listing online, but for those who do this might be a good vehicle for addressing their concerns.

Link to comment

Kirbert, I am very happy to see you contributing to this thread in such a constructive and respectful manner. If you don't mind, I'd like to close the thread that you started, so that we don't have two active topics about the same subject.

 

For example, your post about how a non-member (landowner, park ranger, etc.) would want to use the report feature is an excellent observation. As a cache reviewer I am regularly involved in responding to such complaints. Some people create an account for the sole purpose of posting a note to the cache page -- seems like a lot of effort. Others write to the contact address, but provide no details about the cache other than "I live along Highway 6 and there's one of your caches near my yard, please remove it" -- and there are 48 caches along Highway 6.

 

If clicking on the "report" link takes the person to a page like Coyote Red described, complete instructions could be posted there. Perhaps there could be a button on that page for use by members, and clear instructions for non-members about how to send an e-mail through their regular e-mail address. The instructions would spell out what information to include, if available -- the name of the cache, its GC number, the nearest intersection or the name of the park it's in -- anything that the non-member can provide to help us figure out which cache is the subject of the complaint.

Link to comment

Cache hunters can already email reviewers through the reviewers profile. The only people who know about this correspondence are the cacher and the reviewer.

 

Land managers can contact Groundspeak via the contact page linked at the bottom of the page that opens when they type in the address Geocaching.com.

Link to comment

Cache hunters can already email reviewers through the reviewers profile.

 

There are tens of thousands of caches that were published prior to the creation of the "Published" log type. For these caches, it can be difficult to know who approved them, or who the reviewer for that area is.

Edited by gnbrotz
Link to comment

Cache hunters can already email reviewers through the reviewers profile.

 

There are tens of thousands of caches that were published prior to the creation of the "Published" log type. For these caches, it can be difficult to know who approved them, or who the reviewer for that area is.

You then also have the reviewer has gave up reviewing or worse still has passed on, the cache page will still have their details which will be out of date.

 

A button that informs all active reviewers for the given area is the best option.

Link to comment

I agree with a way to report caches that are non-compliant. I regularly come across caches that seriously border on being illegal. One of the last ones I did put you on the side of a freeway. That could be a serious risk for kids and seniors. I just would feel more comfortable not posting a note directly on the cache page. Thats just my two cents worth.

Link to comment

Cache hunters can already email reviewers through the reviewers profile.

 

There are tens of thousands of caches that were published prior to the creation of the "Published" log type. For these caches, it can be difficult to know who approved them, or who the reviewer for that area is.

You then also have the reviewer has gave up reviewing or worse still has passed on, the cache page will still have their details which will be out of date.

 

A button that informs all active reviewers for the given area is the best option.

 

Write to just about any reviewer and include the GC# and I'll bet your email will be directed to the proper eyes.

 

I don't mean to say that a better way can't be found, only that in the interim there is a way. If you know of a cache that is in need of a look over don't wait for an as yet non-existent feature.

Link to comment

Write to just about any reviewer and include the GC# and I'll bet your email will be directed to the proper eyes.

 

I don't mean to say that a better way can't be found, only that in the interim there is a way. If you know of a cache that is in need of a look over don't wait for an as yet non-existent feature.

Not everyone thinks the same, and certainly don't have the means of knowing who any of the reviewers are. I only learnt through placing a cache and visiting the forums. There are thousands of cachers who don't do either, therefore it is questionable that they know how to get in touch with a reviewer. remember also that the idea is alos for landowners getting in touch. How are they supposed to know what to do?

Link to comment

A button that informs all active reviewers for the given area is the best option.

Or maybe a log that only the reviewers can see yet are notified the same as in a SBA?

 

People tend to be more honest, and more willing, to come forward with information about anything when their name isn't thrown out in the public to face a backlash. I hope this is something that gets worked on and placed in service. It appears to be a great idea. I really like the button idea for non members/land owners to be able to quickly and easily contact GC about caches placed without their permission. Since each cacher is responsible for permission, and the reviewers can only take them at face value and assume they have followed the guidelines, this is one of the best ways to allow for quick resolution of a ill placed cache.

Link to comment

Write to just about any reviewer and include the GC# and I'll bet your email will be directed to the proper eyes.

 

I don't mean to say that a better way can't be found, only that in the interim there is a way. If you know of a cache that is in need of a look over don't wait for an as yet non-existent feature.

Not everyone thinks the same, and certainly don't have the means of knowing who any of the reviewers are. I only learnt through placing a cache and visiting the forums. There are thousands of cachers who don't do either, therefore it is questionable that they know how to get in touch with a reviewer. remember also that the idea is alos for landowners getting in touch. How are they supposed to know what to do?

 

A landowner is more likely to find the contact info linked on the Geocaching.com page than the page of a particular cache. I think the contact link on that page could be a bit more prominent.

 

As for a contact for cachers to use, on the bottom of almost every cache page is a post by the reviewer. As with all posts to cache pages you can contact the poster through the link that is their name.

 

Until a cache page includes a "Report This Cache Anonymously" link this is what you have to work with. Unless you want to log an SBA or a Needs Maintenance and put your name on it.

Link to comment

As for a contact for cachers to use, on the bottom of almost every cache page is a post by the reviewer. As with all posts to cache pages you can contact the poster through the link that is their name.

 

Above emphasis added by me.

 

While the rate of cache hiding is definitely increasing as time goes on, I think it's probably an overstatement to say this applies to 'almost every' cache. I'd be very surprised if half of the currently active caches have this info, and would guess that maybe a third of them have this info.

Link to comment

As for a contact for cachers to use, on the bottom of almost every cache page is a post by the reviewer. As with all posts to cache pages you can contact the poster through the link that is their name.

 

Above emphasis added by me.

 

While the rate of cache hiding is definitely increasing as time goes on, I think it's probably an overstatement to say this applies to 'almost every' cache. I'd be very surprised if half of the currently active caches have this info, and would guess that maybe a third of them have this info.

 

Even if only a third of the caches has this info, and I suspect it is higher, that still makes it fairly easy to find a reviewer.

 

I have tried to show an alternate way to do what the proposed button will do, if and when it is programmed in. If you don't want that alternative then don't use it.

Link to comment

As for a contact for cachers to use, on the bottom of almost every cache page is a post by the reviewer. As with all posts to cache pages you can contact the poster through the link that is their name.

 

Above emphasis added by me.

 

While the rate of cache hiding is definitely increasing as time goes on, I think it's probably an overstatement to say this applies to 'almost every' cache. I'd be very surprised if half of the currently active caches have this info, and would guess that maybe a third of them have this info.

 

Even if only a third of the caches has this info, and I suspect it is higher, that still makes it fairly easy to find a reviewer.

 

I have tried to show an alternate way to do what the proposed button will do, if and when it is programmed in. If you don't want that alternative then don't use it.

I would say less than 20% of the caches out there have this since it wasn't that long ago that caches even had this log. While even that may seem like alot of caches, what is being proposed would cover 100% of the caches and would take all guess work out. Rather than a work around, we should all stand behind the actual working method that is before us. It seems like most of us agree on the worth of this at least, even if not the full method.

Link to comment

As for a contact for cachers to use, on the bottom of almost every cache page is a post by the reviewer. As with all posts to cache pages you can contact the poster through the link that is their name.

 

Above emphasis added by me.

 

While the rate of cache hiding is definitely increasing as time goes on, I think it's probably an overstatement to say this applies to 'almost every' cache. I'd be very surprised if half of the currently active caches have this info, and would guess that maybe a third of them have this info.

 

Even if only a third of the caches has this info, and I suspect it is higher, that still makes it fairly easy to find a reviewer.

 

I have tried to show an alternate way to do what the proposed button will do, if and when it is programmed in. If you don't want that alternative then don't use it.

I would say less than 20% of the caches out there have this since it wasn't that long ago that caches even had this log. While even that may seem like alot of caches, what is being proposed would cover 100% of the caches and would take all guess work out. Rather than a work around, we should all stand behind the actual working method that is before us. It seems like most of us agree on the worth of this at least, even if not the full method.

 

Did I ever once say that a report this cache button was a bad thing? No.

I only offered an option that could be used with existing infrastructure. Something to get you by if you feel you must report a problem without the cache owner knowing it was you. (note, "you" is used here as anyone who wants to report a cache anonymously.)

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...