Caches in designated Wilderness areas

[+weeds19]

Hello,

 

I just read the cache placement rules again, and searched the forum, but I haven't been able to find any information that prohibits placing caches in wilderness areas (i.e. Aldo Leopold Wilderness, New Mexico). I believe I read something at sometime that stated caches could not be placed in designated wilderness areas. I see that there is a cache on Mt Whitney, CA and since Mt Whitney is either in a National Park (caches prohibited) or a wilderness area, I am assuming that caches can be placed in wilderness areas. Can anyone confirm or deny this assumption?

 

Thanks for any help,

 

James

Weeds19

[+GEO.JOE]

You will need to check with the land managers for Aldo Leopold Wilderness.

There is nothing about Wilderness areas that should restrict caches from being placed in Wilderness area but based on how the land managers or their head agency has interpreted of the Wilderness act, caches are allowed in some Wilderness areas and not allowed in others.

 

GEO.JOE

[+Ed & Julie]

Hello,

 

I just read the cache placement rules again, and searched the forum, but I haven't been able to find any information that prohibits placing caches in wilderness areas (i.e. Aldo Leopold Wilderness, New Mexico). I believe I read something at sometime that stated caches could not be placed in designated wilderness areas. I see that there is a cache on Mt Whitney, CA and since Mt Whitney is either in a National Park (caches prohibited) or a wilderness area, I am assuming that caches can be placed in wilderness areas. Can anyone confirm or deny this assumption?

 

Thanks for any help,

 

James

Weeds19

 

You need to check with the land manager for their policy on geocache placements.

From the guidelines:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#offlimit

 

Off-limit (Physical) Caches

 

By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location. However, if we see a cache description that mentions ignoring "No Trespassing" signs (or any other obvious issues), your listing may be immediately archived. We also assume that your cache placement complies with all applicable laws. If an obvious legal issue is present, or is brought to our attention, your listing may be immediately archived.

 

Caches may be quickly archived if we see the following (which is not inclusive):

 

Caches on land managed by an agency that prohibits geocaches, such as the U.S. National Park Service or U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (National Wildlife Refuges)

Edited February 23, 2007 by Ed & Julie

[+palmetto]

That will vary from one National Forest to another. It's left to the Forestry management. There are total bans in some, permit systems in others, and no restrictions in still others. Either ask that specific forestry office, or the reviewer for that area.

[CoyoteRed]

Three very good answers above. The land owner or manager is the ultimate authority of whether you can place a cache on their property. Groundspeak is only a rough guide.

 

Additionally, it's a misconception there is a blanket prohibition on caches on NPS lands. Some allow it. The main thing is if you don't get permission then you are subject to Federal prosecution under at least 4 federal laws--not pretty.

[Tahosa and Sons]

IMHO Caches should not be in Designated Wilderness areas, there are other places in the back country where you can hide them. In the Designated Areas where I live caches are not allowed and if found they are removed, so far they haven't prosecuted anyone yet.

Info on Aldo Leopold for your info.

[+Jhwk]

You could ask Myotis how he got This great Wilderness Cache placed.

Edited February 23, 2007 by Jhwk

[+traildad]

Hello,

 

I just read the cache placement rules again, and searched the forum, but I haven't been able to find any information that prohibits placing caches in wilderness areas (i.e. Aldo Leopold Wilderness, New Mexico). I believe I read something at sometime that stated caches could not be placed in designated wilderness areas. I see that there is a cache on Mt Whitney, CA and since Mt Whitney is either in a National Park (caches prohibited) or a wilderness area, I am assuming that caches can be placed in wilderness areas. Can anyone confirm or deny this assumption?

 

Thanks for any help,

 

James

Weeds19

My first cache is in a California National Forest. During the approval process I made the statement

"Please let me know some more specifics on the limits for hiding caches in the wilderness."

I was referring to the National Forest Area where my cache was placed. The local reviewers response included this quote

"As far as backcountry caches go (Wilderness Areas are off limits, so I prefer not to use that term)"

So it seems that you can't even use the term "wilderness" and according to my local reviewer, Wilderness Areas are off limits.

[+weeds19]

Thanks for all of the responses. I talked to the national forest office that manages the wilderness area I was hoping to place a cache in, and he stated that the letter of the law prohibits man made objects being left in the wilderness. I'm not sure if I completely agree with that interpretation since bridges and trail improvements are constantly done in wilderness areas, and hence man-made objects are left in the wilderness... but that's another debate.

Personally, I do lean towards not putting caches in wilderness areas so I may enact a cache similar to Myotis's cache, mentioned above, that requires you to visit an area (in the wilderness) and discern information, then use that information to derive coordinates to a physical cache outside of the wilderness. This method will still take cachers to a wonderful wilderness location, but it will not adversely impact the wilderness area by leaving something in it.

 

Thanks for the feedback,

 

Weeds19

-James

[+Alan2]

One way around this restriction is to create a multiple, offset type cache where the container is hid just outside the park. Here's cache I did in Catskills Park NY where hiding containers was also taboo. The stages before, all virtuals, were all in the park. You get to tour and hike and see the beauty of the park without violating any rules.

[+Too Tall John]

It is true that the NFS does not allow caches in designated wilderness areas. Remember, however that not all NFS property is designated as wilderness. At least here in New Hampshire, NFS DOES allow caches in the National Forests, just not in the sections designated as wilderness.

[X-isle]

Have your club donate and maintain a BirdFeeder/cache

[+traildad]

It is true that the NFS does not allow caches in designated wilderness areas. Remember, however that not all NFS property is designated as wilderness. At least here in New Hampshire, NFS DOES allow caches in the National Forests, just not in the sections designated as wilderness.

I agree. Out here in California most National Forest land is open for caches. I have one placed in a National Forest now. Areas that are designated Wilderness are a different thing. Many things are restricted in Wilderness Areas, not just Geocaching. One Wilderness Area rule in the Stanislaus National Forest is "Do not leave unattended any property or supplies for more than 24 hours." Thankfully this does not apply forest wide.

[+briansnat]

It is true that the NFS does not allow caches in designated wilderness areas. Remember, however that not all NFS property is designated as wilderness. At least here in New Hampshire, NFS DOES allow caches in the National Forests, just not in the sections designated as wilderness.

 

So it seems that you can't even use the term "wilderness" and according to my local reviewer, Wilderness Areas are off limits.

 

Its not true. Many wilderness areas do not allow caches. Some have no problem with it.

 

In reality a WA is just a political designation. The land is no more wild or sensitive than the land on the other side of the WA border. If you were to read the Wilderness Act of 1964 you would be surprised as to the activities allowed in WAs. They include grazing livestock, mining, prospecting, building power lines, roads and dams. Also the act lists recreation as one of the chief purpose of WAs. Among the recrational activities allowed in WAs are horseback riding and camping. Compared to these, geocaching is quite benign.

 

Anyway, because of the controversial nature of hiding caches in wilderness areas, most reviewers will err on the side of caution and ask for evidence of permission before they will publish a cache in any WA.

[dsandbro]

Briansnat is correct. The local manager is authorized to determine what is allowed or not allowed in the wilderness areas under their jurisdiction. An adjacent national forest may have a different interpretation of the Wilderness Act. This is by design. The Forest Service has taken great pains to maintain itself as a decentralized organization with as few national mandates and national regulations as possible. Local decisions on how to manage the public lands should made by local people with boots on the ground -- not by lawyers, judges, or politicians in Washington DC.

 

When I worked for the USFS one of my collateral duties was to monitor the geocaches on national forest land. Several were inside the Wilderness with full knowledge and consent of all. I checked them yearly and never saw any impact or had any concerns. There were a few outside the Wilderness that I brought to the attention of various folks, and after discussion we decided to leave them alone.

 

Most are unaware that in the spectrum of land management classifications Wilderness is not the most restrictive. Research Natural areas are far more restrictive as to uses. RNAs are not even supposed to have trails and any human use is discouraged. Yet no one either inside or outside the agency has raised a peep about geocaches in RNAs.