Caches for Premium Members Only

[+TexasGringo]

***He can't. He made a promise when first starting geocaching.com that the basic information would always be available for free.***

 

Have you ever heard of "Read My Lips...No New Taxes"?....well things change.

[Keystone]

I'm getting tired of reading terms like "moochers" and "freeloaders" being applied to basic members, and terms like "elitists" being applied to premium members.

 

So there will be no more of that. Thanks.

[+TexasGringo]

***I'm getting tired of reading terms like "moochers" and "freeloaders" being applied to basic members, and terms like "elitists" being applied to premium members.

 

So there will be no more of that. Thanks.***

 

All right......

[+beezerb]

I'm just venting. I got frustrated tonight when 9 of the 16 newest caches in my home area were premium member only. Of all that I have said tonight, it boils down to 2 basic things.

 

You can see new listings for PMO caches if you're not a PM?

[+DammitNanet]

There are 241 caches placed within a 10 mile radius of my home, and not one of them is a members only cache. You just need to get over this. I'm a PM so I can download pocket queries. I actually signed up for a Premium Membership before I knew any of this, just simply so I could have full access!!!! Maybe if I'm lucky, one day I'll be a FTF on a cache too!

[+McPhan]

For what it's worth, I believe the overwhelming majority of geocachers contribute to this obsession.

 

Premium or Basic Members all hide caches and that's what makes this thing we do such fun - the diversity.

 

Nothing can be all things to all people, but with the variety inherent in this sport this comes close.

 

If we learn to accept our differences - hallelujah.

 

Going back to the summer of love now!

 

Thanks

[+Kit Fox]

I'm just venting. I got frustrated tonight when 9 of the 16 newest caches in my home area were premium member only. Of all that I have said tonight, it boils down to 2 basic things.

 

You can see new listings for PMO caches if you're not a PM?

 

Yes, they show up in your nearest caches list, but you don't get any information (like coordinates) if your a member.

 

For the original poster, if your unhappy that some of the new caches in the area, are now PMOC, fork out $3.00 and find them all.

[+beezerb]

Thanks Kit Fox, didn't know that. Out of the 247 caches within a 50 miles of our home there is 1 PMO cache.

[+Hiking Cockroachess]

Personally, I became a PM because it allowed me to download gpx files and create Pocket Queries. Even if GC were to withdraw all of the other services, I would still pay for a PM. Those two functions are worth it.

 

As for your beef with the advance notification, it's not a perfect system. GC even states that sometimes these slip through the cracks, are delayed by server overloads (usually a greylisting by a major mail service), etc. Many times, when everything is going smoothly, I see the cache online in a manual search AN HOUR OR MORE before a notification pops into my mail system. I don't have a problem with this. For me, this is not a heads-up for an FTF; it's a tap on the shoulder to let me know that there's another cache to hunt sometime. Any FTF's I've managed to find are usually found AFTER I did a manual search. I'm working with no greater advantage than a regular member.

 

Consider where GC gets money to pay for the software, technicians, servers, electrical bills, etc. Offering a hobby to EVERYBODY with computer access and a GPSr has to cost money, especially with those vast listings of caches (most of them open to everybody) across the world. If you still are steamed, may I recommend Navicache? They don't charge, and the rules aren't as rigid. Just be forewarned...what is a banquet of caches on GC may be radically reduced to a smaller menu. I can understand your frustration, and Navicache will probably fit your requests. The people who run it are good people, but don't have the budget that GC does.

 

For what it's worth, all of my 40-plus hides are open to EVERYBODY. Please don't lump all PM's into one stereotype of what you view it to be. I promise that I don't stereotype non-PM members.

[TEAM NICKELBACKERS]

I'm all for your cache hitechman. Get it out there. I am a NPM, and proud of it. Go ahead all you PM, let me have it. I am not a PM, and don't plan on being one in the near future. The main topic here is that PMO caches are rude and USUALLY uncalled for. I e-mailed a PMO cache owner who gave me a VERY valid reason why he placed it. It was a very difficult puzzle cache, and from what I was told, he can monitor who is checking it out. That was pretty cool. More power to him. I actually read one post in this thread that said if this cache was placed, it would most likely come up missing???? What's up with that? I think that hitechman may be trying to avoid being excluded from a cache like this one (GC10PJ2), that is now on my first page of caches not found. I have over 300 finds and have yet to be FTF on any, so I will honor the posters request and not log it. Don't get me wrong, I have tried many times to be FTF, but have always been second best to PM's who have a distinct advantage. I do not have the time to spend all day on my computer waiting for a new cache to appear. I have since given up on trying to be FTF due to this reason. As a matter of fact, it has downgraded the whole reason why I like to geocache. Although it would be great to have my cel ring when a new cache is placed, you will not see me paying to have this advantage. And I'm sure that all the other perks of being a PM are great, I just don't need them at this time. I would rather spend my hard earned money on a sport that is more important to me (which I am sorry to say, is not geocaching). When I hear some PM's say "It's only $30 a year" or "it's only $3 a month" or the the best yet "it's only .08 cents per day".....it makes my blood boil. If I wanted a financial adviser, I would look in the phone book for someone qualified on telling me how to spend my money. Don't feel like you are on your own on this one hitechman, it's just that most cachers who visit the forums are PM's, so you will not get a lot of response from non-PM's. Obviously, all of this rant is my own opinion, and has nothing to do with the opinions of this website.

[raybonz]

What the Non-Members forget...is that they are using a Private (Not Public) computer system...and then complain that they want more for FREE.

 

Now that the system is getting overloaded (System Busy Errors)...maybe it is time for these free-loaders to cough up the $30 bucks a year to help support this sport....and if they are not willing to do this...then either find another sport or start your own Non-Member Caching site...and see how long you can support Non-Dues to pay for your system problems.

 

If you can't afford $30 bucks a YEAR...then you have deeper problems.

I've sat here digesting all these insults made to "non-members" for quite some time. When Jeremy started this site he stated it will always be free and that he appreciates people helping out by paying. I do not recall him insulting people by calling them moochers or free-loaders. I am currently laid off and have a gps that does not have pc connection capabilities so at the moment I can't afford to pay nor does it make sense to pay but I probably will down the road. Please do not insult people by generalizing that everyone is looking for a free ride! If anything I feel you are causing more harm than good by making these off color remarks to people you do not even know. Just because you pay doesn't make you better than me ! I have never complained because there are MOC's or can't get gpx files. There are many on the internet that believe in a free internet. That's the basis of Linux and it survives to this day. I have used the net since it was text based so I've been around a while. I also have contributed in non-monetary ways to help others. Value can't always be measured in dollars and cents (the moderaters are doing more than their share) so the next time you're on your high horse get down before you judge others. Sorry to single you out but you had the last insulting post. Ray

[+RussellM]

After reading all these posts, I am left asking myself one question. What is the loop hole? As soon as the snow melts, I plan on becoming a premium member (for the features, not members only caches). I was just wondering.

[+Retcon]

It just dawned on me that a nonmember-only cache would we easily retrievable by members if they just create a new account and don't pay anything.

[+cchur]

Everyone keeps talking about being FTF. That's something I've never thought about and it really doesn't matter to me. I geocache in several different areas, MN, MO, and MI to name a few. Occasionally in Ohio and Florida. I use the pocket quires to keep up with the activity in my "areas of interest", most other notifications are just read quickly and deleted since my query will show what I want and give me more information. I also feel that since I use the services I should help, in my small way, to pay for them. If you really can't afford to pay, the majority of the services are still available to you. Please, be my guest, take what you need and help someone else to enjoy what we have also.

[+TexasGringo]

***Sorry to single you out but you had the last insulting post. Ray***

 

Thank You.

 

Even though I moan and Groan...You are welcome to visit my caches anytime...none of them are PMO's.

[+swaninwa]

I pay for the Premium membership to help support the site. I could care less about FTF. I enjoy going out and finding the caches. It lets me get outdoors and is great exercise too. To me it is worth the money.

I totally agree. We started out with a free account, but after we really fell in love with Geocaching and relized just how much we used the site and it's content, we decided to become premium members. It's our way of supporting our newly found favorite hobby, and we feel it's a bargain.

[Ann_Brush]

This will cook your noodle:

 

Jane Doe, a (non-paying) member is FTF on a cache for regular members only (so say the instructions on the cache site page) set up by the OP. She logs the visit and claims FTF. 2 months later she upgrades to premium member status - now she is listed as a premium member and the listing (because the way Geocaching.com is set up) is retroactive. So now what, does the OP remove her listing from the FTF log.

 

Bottom line: Regardless of your position on this issue the physical management of overseeing compliance is technically very complex since you would have to keep historical data on the members who found your cache. And since you cant know who will log it you can't know who to keep historical data for. For all intensive purposes it's impossible to achieve.

 

Other problems:

Premium members whose dues have lapsed and find the OP cache while they are technically regular members them pay up some time later and revert to premium status. etc etc

[markandlynn]

I believe the OP is reffering to caches that are made PM only for the First To Find only and are then converted to be available for all members after FTF.

 

This is why all the helpfull searches above show very few PM caches however look at the initial set up and many are PM only for the FTF.

 

There is no logic in this though as PM's allready have the advantage of instant notification

[+chadwick61]

 

Tell me about it. The "entitlement generation" has discovered Geocaching. That is why we have threads like, "it's not fair, premium members get the FTFs, boo hoo," and, "PMOC are elitist, this is a free game, I don't care who pays for the site upkeep, I should be able to find all caches."

 

 

Hey now! I'm probably a member of that so called "entitlement generation"! I had no problem sucking it up and paying for a premium membership. I'm a graduate student that has been basically going to a college of some form now for 8 years. When it comes to figuring out what whether you can afford/should pay for various things, its always good to put them in perspective.

 

For instance, soon after graduating from undergrad I was asked to make a commitment of $1000 over 3 years. The thing that got me is I am a Diet Coke addict and the person got me on the fact that for less than a Coke a day I could make the monthly payments. I'll use the same example here...if you eat out twice a week and order a soft drink or some other drink like ice tea, you are going to pay more for that then for the premium membership.

 

Anyway, I have to agree with most everyone else, this is a free game, but there is the option to pay a tad extra and get some extra benefits. I did originally, because there were some Member Only caches within a mile of my apartment. I figured for $3 I should be able to get those in a month. I did get them, but they were also very difficult caches that I could not have gotten as a newbie without the help of the cache owner (JoGPS hides some very difficult caches sometimes....).

 

Since then I've come to find the real benefits of a being a premium member...pocket queries, using various mapping features, etc. Anyway, I think that there are a lot of nice benefits for being a premium member and there is really no reason to complain about those benefits if you are a nonpaying member. It doesn't cost that much more to pay the $3 or $30. Finally, to answer the orignal post...I think its a bad idea to delete the logs of the person is a premium member and you will just make enemies. I've only hidden one cache and its open to everyone. I think it would be childish to block me from loggint the cache because I wanted to pay a few extra dollars a month to get other extras.

[+Renegade Knight]

Let me explain--It's not that I would not allow premium members in general to be FTF for my caches (or even search for my caches)--I would not want those who have hidden caches and make them available only to premium members to be able to look for mine.

 

If I can't search for theirs, then I don't want to let them search for mine.

 

You can't do it the way you are thinking.

 

You can delete all logs from premium members but you can't stop them from finding your cache. Conversly if you did tag along with a premium member you can log the cache (just not see the cache page).

 

Your key problem even if you could do it the way you want is that to be true to your idea you would need to allow the premium members won't don't place PM caches to find your caches and exclude the PM who do place PMO caches. Tricky.

 

Other than that you hit a hot button topic. But at least your variation of it is new.

[+Renegade Knight]

It just dawned on me that a nonmember-only cache would we easily retrievable by members if they just create a new account and don't pay anything.

 

Good point. It's also possible for a regular member to figure out the locations of MO caches, find them, and log them. Not easy, but certainly possible.

[top con]

first off, i don't really care about this "issue" either way. i'm just saying that so all of you know that i'm not on anyone's side.

 

also i should say that i'm not a PM.

 

however, the posts that call for mandatory fee's i think are a little heavy handed. that is a slippery slope that i don't think anyone wants to go down. besides the history of GC.com, and what jeremy originally promised for the site, mandatory fees are a bad idea. this is why i think so.

 

as long as it is a "free" site, with the option to pay, then the sport, site, info will be basically free, and you will only have to pay for "extras". as soon as payment is demanded, then people will start to take advantage of that. i'm not saying that TPTB are greedy, money-grubbing cachers. but history has shown that as soon as money is changing hands mandatorilly, then someone is going to come in and take advantage of that. does anyone know who owns this site? who's to say that as soon as real money could be made, someone might not buy this site up and make fees $30 a month? then you will all be mad because now your "free" hobby is someone else's cash cow.

 

and don't tell me you wouldn't mind paying fees like that, because if that's the case then we would all have HDTV and no one would complain about the cost!

[+BlueDeuce]

Geesh, don't anybody mention the PM only forum to the OP!

 

edit: Oops.

Edited February 19, 2007 by BlueDeuce

[+Kit Fox]

Let me explain--It's not that I would not allow premium members in general to be FTF for my caches (or even search for my caches)--I would not want those who have hidden caches and make them available only to premium members to be able to look for mine.

 

If I can't search for theirs, then I don't want to let them search for mine.

hitechman

 

This is the only reason I decided to post in this thread. In a nutshell, you want to "teach premium members a lesson," because you can't find their caches? Excuse my candor, but this a stupid idea. Get over the fact that these caches are PMOC. It only takes $3.00 and you have one full month to find all these caches that you find offensive.

[+Morgan's Marauders]

Geesh, don't anybody mention the PM only forum to the OP!

 

edit: Oops.

 

Because of Keystone's request for us to keep this a friendly discussion, I will refrain from commenting with a word that begins with a T, ends with an R and has 7 letters!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't mention the platinum memberships either!

[+gof1]

Hitechman, in an attempt to make your life more pleasant, I have placed all of your caches on my ignor list.

As you are about 300 miles from ne it isn't likely that I would have found them anyway, but as a PM I figured it is what you would like me to do.

Happy Caching!

[top con]

oh man....

 

can't we all just get along. you look for yours....you look for yours.

 

my mom would not be happy with your tone MR.! (that means just about all of you!!)

 

[+Airmapper]

<snipped part of post>

 

Finally, to answer the orignal post...I think its a bad idea to delete the logs of the person is a premium member and you will just make enemies. I've only hidden one cache and its open to everyone. I think it would be childish to block me from loggint the cache because I wanted to pay a few extra dollars a month to get other extras.

 

Now tell me, what do you think about people who won't allow finds because a person doesn't want "to pay a few extra dollars a month."

[+The Leprechauns]

I own one PM-only cache out of more than 30, and it's PM-only for legitimate reasons having nothing to do with being exclusionary towards regular members. If a regular member tagged along with a premium member for a day of caching in my area, I'd be happy to permit that person to log the cache (the ONLY PM cache for miles around) using the log page loophole. Based on conversations with other cache owners and following the threads over the years here in the forums, I think it's a safe bet to say that the majority of PM-only cache owners would extend that same courtesy.

 

So my solution to this debate is simple: Let the OP hide his "Regular Members Only" cache. Then a premium member would have to meet up with a regular member to visit the cache together. Since the OP's mimicking the effect of a PM-only cache, I'm confident he would also extend the courtesy of mimicking the loophole.

 

[+nameless301]

I use to be a basic member and it was fine almost came close to getting a FTF, I was STF and it was just because I kept checking the listing around my house and waited for new ones to pop up.

 

I am a premium member now and I don't find any difference, yeah I paid to have extra features and I have never placed a Premium members only cache and I never will, I like to allow everyone to come to my caches because I like people to see where I like to go.

 

Secondly if you can't afford $30 dollars then why do you geocache, very good argument.

 

Also I would like to say to all the basic members, I don't like when people say "non-members" it is quite rude and really isn't true, because we are all members of gc.com one way or another. There are a ton of caches out there for you to find, if it is a member only cache just don't worry about it. Where I live 1/10 caches is a member only cache in a 10 mile radius, that isn't that bad that leaves another 9 for you to find too. And if you are worried about numbers just come to San Diego, there is 103 caches in 10 miles of where I live that are Members only but there are 900 caches in the 10 miles that aren't.

 

Best thing of all is keep it all friendly and peaceful, we are all here to have fun.

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

After reading all this i have to wonder if the problem is really PM's in general or just a few in his local area who he feels are monopolizing the local game for thier own benifit. I can see where that could aggravate a person considerably and wouldn't fault him for it. If that is the case though I jope he could find a solution without punishing PM's who have no part in his troubles.

I personally signed up for Premium membership my first week to support the site, if there were no difference between basic and Premium I would still pay the $30.00 a year to help keep the site running.

Why I should be penalized for it though is the mystery.

[+palser]

I guess it amazes me that there are those who have no problem paying their own way and in really a small way ($0.08/day) supporting something they obviously enjoy. But then there are others that some how believe that they are entitled to all the whistles and bells for free, and are upset when they can't have them! WHAAAA! WHAAA!

 

If the money is really that big of an issue, then maybe they should seek out the garage sale forum and look up their stamp collection from 5th grade.

 

Dr. P

[+chadwick61]

<snipped part of post>

 

Finally, to answer the orignal post...I think its a bad idea to delete the logs of the person is a premium member and you will just make enemies. I've only hidden one cache and its open to everyone. I think it would be childish to block me from loggint the cache because I wanted to pay a few extra dollars a month to get other extras.

 

Now tell me, what do you think about people who won't allow finds because a person doesn't want "to pay a few extra dollars a month."

 

I don't know if I understand your question exactly...but I will try to answer it regardless. First of all, I've never placed a members only cache so I don't know what the mindset would be behind that. I would hope and assume they have a reason of some kind. It might be things that were mentioned before like its an area that might not stand up well to a lot of traffic so its one way of limiting it or it might be that its a hard cache so they only want experienced cachers to look for it or it might be that they think that if someone really wants to find this cache they can pay to be a premium member to help support this sport. I can't say for sure, but to me those are all pretty good reasons to place a premium member only cache if someone feels the need to.

[+gh patriot]

And dont forget to " Work harder, millions of people on welfare depend on YOU." Just like the non-premium members depend on premium members!

[+Airmapper]

<snipped part of post>

 

Finally, to answer the orignal post...I think its a bad idea to delete the logs of the person is a premium member and you will just make enemies. I've only hidden one cache and its open to everyone. I think it would be childish to block me from loggint the cache because I wanted to pay a few extra dollars a month to get other extras.

 

Now tell me, what do you think about people who won't allow finds because a person doesn't want "to pay a few extra dollars a month."

 

I don't know if I understand your question exactly...but I will try to answer it regardless. First of all, I've never placed a members only cache so I don't know what the mindset would be behind that. I would hope and assume they have a reason of some kind. It might be things that were mentioned before like its an area that might not stand up well to a lot of traffic so its one way of limiting it or it might be that its a hard cache so they only want experienced cachers to look for it or it might be that they think that if someone really wants to find this cache they can pay to be a premium member to help support this sport. I can't say for sure, but to me those are all pretty good reasons to place a premium member only cache if someone feels the need to.

 

Thanks for your answer. My question was mostly to point out that I think it can go both ways, if it is childish to restrict a cache from PM's as the OP suggests, it is similarly childish to restrict a cache from non PM's on the same principle. I know there are a few good reasons to make a cache PMOC, but I'm still not convinced that it has a benefit to Geocaching, and doesn't cause more fuss than it is worth.

[+Bud]

I'm sorry to see that this is being used as ANOTHER divisive issue here in the forums. I thought we had enough of them in the last few months, and that no one could find anything to complain about for a while. I'm always sorely disappointed.

 

I remember when I started geocaching (6 years in April!) and the caches were few and far between. The server would bog down more often than it does now, and PQ's and online mapping were nonexistent or rudimentary at best. GC has had to hire great coders and obtain new equipment to handle the upgrades that most of the people complaining about here have known since signing on to the site and take for granted. Equipment and technicians take money, and PM is one of the more direct ways to get those funds.

 

As for the PMOC's, I like to think of them as an agreement between like-minded indivduals that we believe enough in a website and activity that we are willing to support it in some small way in the hope that it will become even better than we have seen it grow to up until now. Most of my caches are PMOC's for the first week, to let those like minded people know that I appreciate their contribution. I also have no disrespect for cachers who aren't PM's, and make those caches accessible to all after that.

 

It's a big enough tent for all of us to fit under here. There should be no reason for us to point fingers, exclude other cachers, and generally throw a hissy fit every time something doesn't go according to our idealized notion of the world. The weather's getting warmer, get out there and cache, and leave the angst of the forums behind for a while!

[+Driver Carries Cache]

Just out of curiousity, what do you think a premium member would do if I became a premuim member and informed my nonpaying member friends of that caches location so they could find and log it?

 

It doesn't say that if you're not a premium member you can't log the cache. It says: "You need to log in and be a premium member in order to view subscriber-only caches." I can't imagine that any owner that would delete a find of a friend who came along with a paying member.

 

The fact is, placing a restriction on any cache (premium or otherwise) will just cause that hide to see less traffic. Some, whose caches are repeatedly muggled see this as a plus. I always felt if your caches were getting repeatedly muggled, you ought to look into improving the quality of your camo or your hide in general.

 

I'm still fairly new and don't know if I'll check the "premium only" box when I make my first hide. I feel premium membership has great value and am proud to support the excellent work of Groundspeak.

 

Just an observation (from a premium member if that means anything).

 

Driver Carries Cache

(madmike)

[+oprystar]

I think there is only 1 PM cache in my 60 mile radius. I am a PM, for two reasons: 1) I see the advantages of the perks involved. These perks provide ease and enjoyment to me, thus I feel ok paying for them. 2) It costs money, lots of money to run this kind of web site. I am ok helping provide financial support to keep it running.

 

Look at it this way; at the bank, Advantage customers get priority and perks, ...at the hotel, the folks paying to stay in the high dollar suite get the limo, butler, and perks, ...at Sam's, the paying member gets reduced price shopping and perks. This list can go on and on. Here on Groundspeak, the Premium Member pays to get perks. If you want the perks, pay to become a Premium Member. Knowing the terms, if you don't want to pay, then you obviously miss out on the perks. This is only a game! Can you hide a cache and limit who finds it and when? I say yes, following the rules. I think it is highly unethical, but within the rules.

[+traildad]

 

It's not the cost, it's the principle. I just don't think it is right to have to "pay" to search for any public cache.

 

hitechman

 

My understanding is that you don't have to pay to search for public caches. The Premium Members Only caches do require payment. By the way this is not a government project. It requires money to pay for everything. Remember you get what you pay for.

 

I clicked over to your profile and it says PREMIUM MEMBER. Congratulation.

[+tenacityj]

I can understand the arguments that the non-premium members are making. When starting, I supposed it could be frustrating seeing PM only caches and not getting the coords to them. Aren't many in my area so I don't know first hand what that feels like.

 

As far as money is concerned, I can see why someone would say that they can't afford it. We talk about only $30 a year (which is pretty cheap). After buying a GPSr, spending money on gas, and spending more money on supplies and containers for caches that everyone gets to enjoy; $30 may just be too much of an added expense for some people. However, you did decide at some point in time to spend over $100 on a GPSr.

 

I found a lot of FTFs as a regular member because I checked the site quite often. I also beat many PMs to these caches, I only spent the money because I was tired of looking all of the time; I don't get notifications before the cache is published so everyone does have the same chance. It's just that everyone doesn't have the same level of convience.

 

Think of it this way. You can mow your lawn yourself for free labor or you can pay someone else to mow it for you. If you choose to save money by mowing your lawn on your own, but the person two houses down decides to pay to have his lawn mowed; do you complain that that person isn't paying to have your lawn mowed as well.

 

I think it is all just a matter of convience. Also, we need the non-premium members. Remember, must of the PMs didn't start playing this game by paying $30, then buying a GPSr, and then finding a friend to introduce us to geocaching. We did just the opposite.

[ImpalaBob]

Koikeeper and I have the majority of our caches as Members Only. This feature adds the ability for us to look at an audit log and see who has looked at our caches. Any non-premium members who have E-mailed us and expressed an interest to do our caches are given the cache information and a link so they can log it.

 

Your idea of somehow wanting to exclude the people who pay to help support the cost of running this site is ....... well think about it ..... not within the spirit of friendly geocaching.

 

If you want to do a Members Only geocache please E-mail the owner and I think you will be pleasently surprized!

 

ImpalaBob

[+CSpenceFLY]

In the true spirit of geocaching, I believe that all should have an equal chance at placing and finding caches--that portion of this sport should not be bought or sold. I feel that all should be notified of caches equally and that it is just plain wrong to sell that privilage. I have no qualm about any of the other premium member services.

 

JoeX, a premium member, makes his caches available only to other premium members, yet JoeX feels free to find my non-premium member caches--that is just not fair. No one shouild have to pay a price ($$) to be able to locate a cache.

 

I think it is pretty lame to be elitist and somewhat selfish by doing this--I just don't feel any member should have to pay to find any cache listed on this website.

 

hitechman

 

I paid to be a premium member not to be an elitist but to help support the website that brings me so much fun.Would it be rude of me to refer to all of the free members as freeloaders.Sure it would.So lets be careful how we start throwing the labels around.

[+Retcon]

I paid to be a premium member not to be an elitist but to help support the website that brings me so much fun.Would it be rude of me to refer to all of the free members as freeloaders.Sure it would.So lets be careful how we start throwing the labels around.

 

Speak for yourself. I've been trying all my life to be elitist, but I couldn't afford the fancy cars or penthouse suites. Now I've found a way to do it for a mere 30 bucks (or even 3, but I like to be elitist year-round) and you're trying to take that away from me!?

[+CSpenceFLY]

[+DonB]

OK, I'm not a premium member. Not a problem as this site does not require it. Premium members get added benefits. OK, for now I can live without those benefits. Premium members can hide caches that are only available to premium members--not viewable to regular subscribers.

 

My questions: Can I, as a regular subscriber, hide a cache and make it only available to regular subscribers? I realize premium members would be able to see the cache listing, but can I state that premium member will not be allowed to log this cache (and if they do, can I delete their log).

 

I guess my biggest beef is that regular members can hide caches and it is the premium members that get notified first, and thus get a better chance at FTF. Can I hide a cache and state that a premium can not be FTF and delete that log if they do claim that? Can I list a cache and wait a week to place it (after everyone has had a chance to be notified)?

 

Nothing against premium members, but I think all members should have an equal chance at FTF.

 

hitechman

I don't see the big deal on FTFs. I paid my money for the PQs, the bookmarks, and caches along a route. I also pay MapCard $30.00 a year to get aerial photographs and topo maps, that's a whole 16 cents a day for both services, about 85 cents less then a cup of coffee in a restaurant around here.

 

People also make a big deal about numbers, I would rather be able to say I have a found cache in every state then to have a 1000 caches, but to each his own.

[HITECHTEAM]

I quess I should have counted to 10 before I vented on this topic. Yes, I am still a little touchy about it, but I will get over it. I ask all of you to remember that my first posts were to satisfy that "get even" and "you get what you give" attitude, and I would not actually do that as I love the sport too much.

 

Quote: Wild Thing 74: "pay $3 or $30 and get a life...."

No comment--this speaks for itself.

 

Quote: Cap.Blackbeard: "Beyond that, I think your idea is pretty mean sprirted and vidictive, punish those who keep your game running because you don't get the premium benifits for free. I think the Premium members are pretty darn generous to pay for your hobby without complaining, perhaps you need to try looking at the whole picture, not just your narrrow view of it. "

You are correct, it was a nasty idea--one I suggested in mean spirit, but would never put into motion.

 

Quote: Bad CRC: "perhaps they need to eliminate free memberships from GC.com completely to avoid the complaining?......anyone who can't afford 3 bucks a month probably shouldn't be wasting time geocaching, at least not unless they pick up some aluminum cans on the way to the tupperware."

 

Quote: B & Lela: "Don't be such a baby."

OK, are you willing to give me some lessons on maturity and adulthood--I've got $30 I can pay you for your time?

 

Quote: cachenut06: "If you cant afford it, then theres no need to be complaining about PM benefits."

I can afford it, so it's OK if I complain a little, correct?[/b]

 

Quote: cachenut06: "Yep, i hate seeing all the whining over the moochers. I think Jeremy and the rest of Groundspeak should strongly consider dues. geocaching.com costs lots of money im sure to run, and if the people who are just taking up bandwith would be eliminated, the site would run better etc. Also if dues were collected, Groundspeak would have better site speed, and they would have more money for other great perks. I personally think dues are a must, but thats just me, and everyone should then have the same perks if dues were colelcted."

Now I'm a moocher as well. I wouldn't be against a dues, but I'll bet you still wouldn't want to be on equal ground with me. A premium added dues to get even additional benefits?

 

Quote: GURU4HIRE: maybe it is time for these free-loaders.....

...and a free-loader as well.

 

Quote: Kit Fox: "....this a stupid idea...."

...and stupid.

 

Quote: gof1: "Hitechman, in an attempt to make your life more pleasant, I have placed all of your caches on my ignor list.

As you are about 300 miles from ne it isn't likely that I would have found them anyway, but as a PM I figured it is what you would like me to do."

Your choice. If that's what I wanted, it would say so on the cache page.

 

......and on and on.......

 

Anyone wonder why I feel like I do with comments like the above? They give me the impression I'm a piece of dirt because I don't always ageree witht heir view. I agree, it is just a few and it is wrong to judge the whole on the actions of a few, but don't we all have that infallibility to a certain degree?

 

It is not, and never has been the $30. I think that is very reasonable for anyone who desires the premium benefits. It's not the pocket quiries. It was and still is "equal access" to all caches which I still feel strongly about. I don't feel that issue should have a price tag on it. This is what frustates (not anger as many have implied) me.

 

FTF is a quest and a reward--a personal accomplishment for me. It's not a bragging psoition for me like it is for a few. That's not the game IMHO. There is a local PM who does nothing but whine in his logs if he isn't FTF.

 

A few PM's strike me as rude and elitist--"what's mine is mine and what's yours is mine". I just happened to some of them this past 2 weeks and got PO'd. They pretty much came across that they were, somehow, better than me and their $30 gave them that right.

 

And about the word that starts with T and ends with R and is 7 letters. I happen to be a science teacher. I have made GPS and geocaching a part of all of my science classes since 1997 (yup, I was teacheing the kids long before this site was founded). I have introduced over 400 kids to this sport (many have not persued it) over those years, and have hidden "little prizes" around the community for the students to locate before they wetre referred to as geocaches. Have I done my share for this sport? I think so.

 

I wish no one ill will. I won't place nonmember only caches. I won't vandelize anyone caches. I love the sport too much for that. I will continue to have a difference of opinion.

 

hitechman

 

PS: On a side note: one generous member took it upon himself to purchase me a PM. I did not request that and it was not necessary. This member did it out of the goodness of his heart, with no conditions-just asked me to try it for a year. I accept, but retain my opinions--I'm not a better or worse person because I am a PM. Thank God most of you feel the same way. I intend to repay this act with a similar act. I will find someone who can't afford a PM and give an annual membership to them. Thank you, from the bottom of my heart, TC.

[Keystone]

I've grown tired of telling people not to fling poo at each other in this thread, and since the OP has scooped up another handful, it's time to bring this thread to a close.