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To ban or not to ban LPC's


DrAwKwArD

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Posted
Of course, that goes back to the earlier plan which was suggested: merely reading the cache page prior to hitting GOTO will greatly reduce anyone's chances of being disappointed.
Let's try it your way:

 

I'm getting in my car after I find a cache. I pull out my Palm and I find the nearest caches. Then I select the nearest cache and hit "Go To." Then I go up to the upper right corner and select "Description." Then I scroll down and read through the description trying to find any evidence where the cache owner indicates that his cache may be lame. I find nothing. So then I go to the upper right corner and select "Past Logs." I read the first log but that cacher just thanks the owner for the cache. I go to "Log Date" and select the next date. Then I read the next past log. That guy says something about going into stealth mode and thanks the owner. I go to "Log Date" and select the next date. Then I read the next past log. That guy says easy one and nobody around and thanks the owner. Then I read the next past log. That guy says nobody was around and thanks the owner. Then I read the next past log. That guy says TFTC SL. So should I skip this cache? Is it an LPC?

 

Anyhow, does this sound like fun to anybody? I can't imagine having to do this after every cache that I've found. It would be a major PITA and it doesn't work!

Posted
Of course, that goes back to the earlier plan which was suggested: merely reading the cache page prior to hitting GOTO will greatly reduce anyone's chances of being disappointed.
Let's try it your way:

 

I'm getting in my car after I find a cache. I pull out my Palm and I find the nearest caches. Then I select the nearest cache and hit "Go To." Then I go up to the upper right corner and select "Description." Then I scroll down and read through the description trying to find any evidence where the cache owner indicates that his cache may be lame. I find nothing. So then I go to the upper right corner and select "Past Logs." I read the first log but that cacher just thanks the owner for the cache. I go to "Log Date" and select the next date. Then I read the next past log. That guy says something about going into stealth mode and thanks the owner. I go to "Log Date" and select the next date. Then I read the next past log. That guy says easy one and nobody around and thanks the owner. Then I read the next past log. That guy says nobody was around and thanks the owner. Then I read the next past log. That guy says TFTC SL. So should I skip this cache?

Based on all the things you've said about your preferences: Probably.

 

Is it an LPC?

High probability.

 

Anyhow, does this sound like fun to anybody? I can't imagine having to do this after every cache that I've found. It would be a major PITA and it doesn't work!

Take out the electronics, add a stack of printouts and you've just exactly described the way I do it. Yes, it's a lot of fun to me, no, it's not a PITA, and yes, it does work.

 

Are you really this burned out on caching?

 

I'm not certain, but I think I mat have located your problem:

Then I scroll down and read through the description trying to find any evidence where the cache owner indicates that his cache may be lame. I find nothing.

You know better than that. The owner is not going to tell you his cache is lame, because it’s not lame to him. He got a thrill out of hiding it. Why? Who knows? Maybe it's the sneaky-sneaky clandestine nature of the activity, or maybe it's just the fact that he's participating in a wholesome 21st century grass roots Internet game that gets him off the couch. There are lots of reasons, but no matter how cool something is, its going to be "lame' to somebody -- should you maybe lead by example and label some of your own caches as lame, just to be on the safe side?

 

The find logs, for the most part, aren't going to call it lame. I've found some fairly lame caches, but I'd be ashamed to say so in the log. Every cache has some value to somebody. I'd sooner skip the smiley than whine about not being adequately entertained by a cache that I found voluntarily.

 

Even considering all that, I'm confident that you have enough experience to recognize, with impressive consistency, which caches are likely to disappoint you long before you arrive at the waypoint. I can do it, and I'm just an idiot! If I can do it, you can do it.

 

On the other hand, if this has become such a chore for you, then maybe you need to seriously consider switching to a different hobby.

Posted (edited)
Let's try it your way:

 

I'm getting in my car after I find a cache. I pull out my Palm and I find the nearest caches. Then I select the nearest cache and hit "Go To." Then I go up to the upper right corner and select "Description." Then I scroll down and read through the description trying to find any evidence where the cache owner indicates that his cache may be lame. I find nothing. So then I go to the upper right corner and select "Past Logs." I read the first log but that cacher just thanks the owner for the cache. I go to "Log Date" and select the next date. Then I read the next past log. That guy says something about going into stealth mode and thanks the owner. I go to "Log Date" and select the next date. Then I read the next past log. That guy says easy one and nobody around and thanks the owner. Then I read the next past log. That guy says nobody was around and thanks the owner. Then I read the next past log. That guy says TFTC SL. So should I skip this cache? Is it an LPC?

 

Anyhow, does this sound like fun to anybody? I can't imagine having to do this after every cache that I've found. It would be a major PITA and it doesn't work!

Cachemate can be a little cumbersome. With Plucker, I just click on the cache name and scroll down to read the entire description and logs. After I find that cache, I just go further down the page to find the nearest caches and click on the next cache and do it again. Plucker rocks! Edited by sbell111
Posted (edited)
On the other hand, if this has become such a chore for you, then maybe you need to seriously consider switching to a different hobby.

So if we don't like lame then we should quit? I was showing why the methods you guys suggest are an ineffective waste of time. Your way is a chore. The way I cache is not a chore because I don't read every cache description and past log before I find the next cache on my Palm (Sbell method), and I don't print out hundreds of cache pages and read all those (your method). Instead I pretty much ignore urbans and I do hiking caches. Hiking caches are scenic, fun and they keep you in good shape. I will do urbans that are puzzles, higher difficulty or ones that are recommended. I will also do them if I'm with a group and they want to stop at a few. I understand that some people like them. It doesn't bother me. I get a chuckle watching these guys lift up the lamp post covers. It's really funny sometimes what people will do just to get another smiley! :P Quantity is definitely more important than quality for many in the caching world. :lol: Edited by TrailGators
Posted (edited)
On the other hand, if this has become such a chore for you, then maybe you need to seriously consider switching to a different hobby.
So if we don't like lame then we should quit?
No. If you're no longer having fun, perhaps you should quit.
I was showing why the methods you guys suggest are an ineffective waste of time. Your way is a chore. The way I cache is not a chore because I don't read every cache description and past log before I find the next cache on my Palm (Sbell method), and I don't print out hundreds of cache pages and read all those (your method).
As I tried to express in my previous post, I think you might just be using a more cumbersome tool than you need. In order for me to read the next caches description and logs, I just make one click.
Instead I pretty much ignore urbans and I do hiking caches. Hiking caches are scenic, fun and they keep you in good shape. I will do urbans that are puzzles, higher difficulty or ones that are recommended. I will also do them if I'm with a group and they want to stop at a few. I understand that some people like them. It doesn't bother me. I get a chuckle watching these guys lift up the lamp post covers. It's really funny sometimes what people will do just to get another smiley! :P Quantity is definitely more important than quality for many in the caching world. :lol:
If this method works for you, what's with all the angsty posts in so many threads? Edited by sbell111
Posted
If this method works for you, what's with all the angsty posts in so many threads?
I am voicing my opinion that LPCs are lame. Is that angsty or free speech? However, whenever I have gotten the crabbiest is when you are around. :P I am typically in a good mood and enjoy joking around. :P

 

Anyhow, instead of arguing let's do a test. I found 11 caches yesterday. I did 3 hiking caches in the morning and 8 urbans after that (because we were tired). Tell me using your magic Plucko method which ones were lame and which ones were LPCs. If you want a larger sample size then do the same thing for the caches I found in Yuma last weekend. No more talk. I want proof that it works! :lol:

Posted
If this method works for you, what's with all the angsty posts in so many threads?
I am voicing my opinion that LPCs are lame. Is that angsty or free speech?
According to Coyote Red, there is no free speech. That being said, why do you think that they are mutually exclusive?
Anyhow, instead of arguing let's do a test. I found 11 caches yesterday. I did 3 hiking caches in the morning and 8 urbans after that (because we were tired). Tell me using your magic Plucko method which ones were lame and which ones were LPCs. If you want a larger sample size then do the same thing for the caches I found in Yuma last weekend. No more talk. I want proof that it works! :lol:

GCZPM5 - Sounds good to me. I love a good burger.

GCZQ7X - I'll pass. I'm not a big puzzle fan and really don't like the ones that are nothing more than an on-line search.

GCNBBT - No thanks. Another puzzle. This one looked like busy work.

GCZBQR - Sounds good to me. The cache page was an interesting read.

GCZBQJ - Works for me. Same as above.

GCZBQG - Ditto.

GC10K58 - Sounds fun, to me. Of course, I might have some personal bias with this one.

GCZME6 - Sounds like a good urban micro, to me.

GC10GMW - Maybe if I felt like walking that far, which I don't.

GC10GM1 - I think not, for the same reason as above.

GC10QW1 - Same as above. Thanks, but no thanks.

 

Is that enough proof, or do you need more?

Posted (edited)
If this method works for you, what's with all the angsty posts in so many threads?
I am voicing my opinion that LPCs are lame. Is that angsty or free speech?
According to Coyote Red, there is no free speech. That being said, why do you think that they are mutually exclusive?
Anyhow, instead of arguing let's do a test. I found 11 caches yesterday. I did 3 hiking caches in the morning and 8 urbans after that (because we were tired). Tell me using your magic Plucko method which ones were lame and which ones were LPCs. If you want a larger sample size then do the same thing for the caches I found in Yuma last weekend. No more talk. I want proof that it works! :lol:

GCZPM5 - Sounds good to me. I love a good burger.

GCZQ7X - I'll pass. I'm not a big puzzle fan and really don't like the ones that are nothing more than an on-line search.

GCNBBT - No thanks. Another puzzle. This one looked like busy work.

GCZBQR - Sounds good to me. The cache page was an interesting read.

GCZBQJ - Works for me. Same as above.

GCZBQG - Ditto.

GC10K58 - Sounds fun, to me. Of course, I might have some personal bias with this one.

GCZME6 - Sounds like a good urban micro, to me.

GC10GMW - Maybe if I felt like walking that far, which I don't.

GC10GM1 - I think not, for the same reason as above.

GC10QW1 - Same as above. Thanks, but no thanks.

 

Is that enough proof, or do you need more?

I like a good burger too. The 3 Bermuda Triangle caches were all short hikes but were fun. GC10K58 was a nano at Mervyn's and kept us stumped for a little while. It was actually a clever hide. Personal bias because you like Mervyn's? GCNBBT was actually a very easy puzzle and educational. I like reading that kind of stuff. You just had to put the horizon photos in order the way you see them when turning clockwise starting from north. The spot gave a great view of San Marcos. I agree about the other puzzle. Anyhow, it was a really good day because we lucked out because none of the urbans were LPCs! Woo Hoo! But I need more, try the technique for the Yuma caches I found last weekend and please use the cache names instead of the GC numbers when you comment. This time I'll save you some work. Just tell me which ones were LPCs... Edited by TrailGators
Posted
On the other hand, if this has become such a chore for you, then maybe you need to seriously consider switching to a different hobby.

So if we don't like lame then we should quit?

Not 'if you don't like lame,' but 'if you can't cope with lame without describing it as such a PITA the way you did.' There will always be caches you don't enjoy. Lame is not only a permanent part of Geocaching, TG; it's a part of everything you'll ever do.

 

Sometimes I have to spend a few minutes pawing through the ice cream cartons at the store to find the flavor I like. Sometimes they're out of stock. That's life. I can either whine about it, or I can get over it and enjoy the rest of the day.

 

Your way is a chore. The way I cache is not a chore because I don't read every cache description and past log before I find the next cache ...

When you choose not to read the description, you deserve whatever problems result from that choice.

 

I get a chuckle watching these guys lift up the lamp post covers. It's really funny sometimes what people will do just to get another smiley! :P Quantity is definitely more important than quality for many in the caching world. :lol:

Here you are directly criticizing others for their preference, yet you got all defensive when I dared to criticize the way you cope with your own preference -- even though I told you I respect your preference itself.

 

I understand that some people like them. It doesn't bother me.

Now you're getting it! That's the ticket! :P

Posted
Just also keep in mind that until then, those hides aren't bothering you. Or more accurately, they shouldn't bother you. :lol:

How about 'You shouldn't let them bother you.' Is that more to your liking?

Boy, for people who ceaselessly declare how tolerant you are, you two sure seem awfully concerned about telling other people what they should and should not think and/or feel.

 

Isn't there a word for telling people to act one way while you do the exact opposite? It's right there on the tip of my tongue...

Posted (edited)
I get a chuckle watching these guys lift up the lamp post covers. It's really funny sometimes what people will do just to get another smiley! :lol: Quantity is definitely more important than quality for many in the caching world. :P

Here you are directly criticizing others for their preference, yet you got all defensive when I dared to criticize the way you cope with your own preference -- even though I told you I respect your preference itself.

Am I the only one that finds humor with some of the things that people will do to get a smiley? They could make a hilarous bloopers of caching with some of the stuff that goes on. Don't get me wrong. I laugh at myself too. I have shredded my clothes a few times while bushwhacking to get to a tupperware container under a pile of rocks. We have tupperware in our cupboards but it isn't quite the same... :P:P Edited by TrailGators
Posted
... Personal bias because you like Mervyn's?
No. Personal bias because I might, possibly be partly a little responsible for that cache, maybe.
... But I need more, try the technique for the Yuma caches I found last weekend and please use the cache names instead of the GC numbers when you comment. This time I'll save you some work. Just tell me which ones were LPCs...
Perhaps I'll take a look at them after while.
Posted
I get a chuckle watching these guys lift up the lamp post covers. It's really funny sometimes what people will do just to get another smiley! :lol: Quantity is definitely more important than quality for many in the caching world. :P

Here you are directly criticizing others for their preference, yet you got all defensive when I dared to criticize the way you cope with your own preference -- even though I told you I respect your preference itself.

Am I the only one that finds humor with some of the things that people will do to get a smiley? They could make a hilarous bloopers of caching with some of the stuff that goes on. Don't get me wrong. I laugh at myself too. I have shredded my clothes a few times while bushwhacking to get to a tupperware container under a pile of rocks. We have tupperware in our cupboards but it isn't quite the same... :P:P

I completely agree. My wife thinks I'm a total reject every time I go geocaching.

Posted
Just also keep in mind that until then, those hides aren't bothering you. Or more accurately, they shouldn't bother you. :lol:

How about 'You shouldn't let them bother you.' Is that more to your liking?

Boy, for people who ceaselessly declare how tolerant you are, you two sure seem awfully concerned about telling other people what they should and should not think and/or feel.

 

Isn't there a word for telling people to act one way while you do the exact opposite? It's right there on the tip of my tongue...

You're exactly right, Fizzy. TrailGators should just go on ahead and stress himself out beyond sanity over his inability to tolerate or avoid caches that don't entertain him, and ignore all advice to the contrary. In fact he should concentrate on what a pain in the bum those LPCs are to him, and therefore lead by example. Maybe then us hypocrites could learn from him and become proper whiners too.

Posted
Just also keep in mind that until then, those hides aren't bothering you. Or more accurately, they shouldn't bother you. :lol:

How about 'You shouldn't let them bother you.' Is that more to your liking?

Boy, for people who ceaselessly declare how tolerant you are, you two sure seem awfully concerned about telling other people what they should and should not think and/or feel.

 

Isn't there a word for telling people to act one way while you do the exact opposite? It's right there on the tip of my tongue...

You're exactly right, Fizzy. TrailGators should just go on ahead and stress himself out beyond sanity over his inability to tolerate or avoid caches that don't entertain him, and ignore all advice to the contrary. In fact he should concentrate on what a pain in the bum those LPCs are to him, and therefore lead by example. Maybe then us hypocrites could learn from him and become proper whiners too.

Yes, I'm bouncing off the walls in my rubber suit over this.... :P
Posted
... Just tell me which ones were LPCs...
Yuma Event #4 - Not a LPC (So far so good)

Bienvenidos 2007 - Not a LPC

Headache Avenue!! - Not a LPC

Biblical Tree - Not a LPC

 

How did I do?

Posted (edited)
Just also keep in mind that until then, those hides aren't bothering you. Or more accurately, they shouldn't bother you. :lol:
How about 'You shouldn't let them bother you.' Is that more to your liking?
Boy, for people who ceaselessly declare how tolerant you are, you two sure seem awfully concerned about telling other people what they should and should not think and/or feel.

 

Isn't there a word for telling people to act one way while you do the exact opposite? It's right there on the tip of my tongue...

I agree. I'm an inigma. I'm certainly not very tolerant of whining. Perhaps that is why you and I don't see eye to eye very often.

 

BTW, who are you calling 'boy'?

Edited by sbell111
Posted
... Just tell me which ones were LPCs...
Yuma Event #4 - Not a LPC (So far so good)

Bienvenidos 2007 - Not a LPC

Headache Avenue!! - Not a LPC

Biblical Tree - Not a LPC

 

How did I do?

Good so far. I guess having "tree" in the name was a giveaway on the one...
Posted
... Just tell me which ones were LPCs...
Yuma Event #4 - Not a LPC (So far so good)

Bienvenidos 2007 - Not a LPC

Headache Avenue!! - Not a LPC

Biblical Tree - Not a LPC

 

How did I do?

Good so far. I guess having "tree" in the name was a giveaway on the one...

That was the one that I had the most trouble with. I thought you were trying to trick me.

Posted
Just also keep in mind that until then, those hides aren't bothering you. Or more accurately, they shouldn't bother you. :lol:
How about 'You shouldn't let them bother you.' Is that more to your liking?
Boy, for people who ceaselessly declare how tolerant you are, you two sure seem awfully concerned about telling other people what they should and should not think and/or feel.

 

Isn't there a word for telling people to act one way while you do the exact opposite? It's right there on the tip of my tongue...

I agree. I'm an inigma. I'm certainly not very tolerant of whining. Perhaps that is why you and I don't see eye to eye very often.

 

BTW, who are you calling 'boy'?

If you are not tolerant of hearing others feelings and concerns regarding LPCs (or whining as you and KBI call it), then why would you spend so much time in a thread where you know that is going to happen?
Posted
... Just tell me which ones were LPCs...
Yuma Event #4 - Not a LPC (So far so good)

Bienvenidos 2007 - Not a LPC

Headache Avenue!! - Not a LPC

Biblical Tree - Not a LPC

 

How did I do?

Good so far. I guess having "tree" in the name was a giveaway on the one...

That was the one that I had the most trouble with. I thought you were trying to trick me.

I am trying to trick you. :lol: I can tell you that I visited several of those caches at night after visiting the local watering hole. We really had a lot of fun. :P
Posted
If you are not tolerant of hearing others feelings and concerns regarding LPCs (or whining as you and KBI call it), then why would you spend so much time in a thread where you know that is going to happen?
Self immolation. It's a sickness, I know, but we all cope in our own ways.
Posted
I am trying to trick you. :lol: I can tell you that I visited several of those caches at night after visiting the local watering hole. We really had a lot of fun. :P
Did I fall for it, or am I too clever?
Posted (edited)
I am trying to trick you. :P I can tell you that I visited several of those caches at night after visiting the local watering hole. We really had a lot of fun. :P
Did I fall for it, or am I too clever?

Fall for what? :lol: Edited by TrailGators
Posted
Just also keep in mind that until then, those hides aren't bothering you. Or more accurately, they shouldn't bother you. :lol:

How about 'You shouldn't let them bother you.' Is that more to your liking?

Boy, for people who ceaselessly declare how tolerant you are, you two sure seem awfully concerned about telling other people what they should and should not think and/or feel.

 

Isn't there a word for telling people to act one way while you do the exact opposite? It's right there on the tip of my tongue...

 

I think you are misusing the word tolerant. To "tolerate" something is to disagree with respect. That's what they are doing??? You seem to imply that to tolerate someone's opinion requires agreement.

Posted
I am trying to trick you. :P I can tell you that I visited several of those caches at night after visiting the local watering hole. We really had a lot of fun. :P
Did I fall for it, or am I too clever?

Fall for what? :lol:
I've got my eye on you.
Posted

You guys are giving me a headache.

 

1. The first LPC I found was a challenge and I thought it was a cool idea.

2. The second LPC I was was the exact opposite.

3. The first hollow log cache I found was a challenge and I thought it was a cool idea.

4. The third and fourth hollow log caches I found was certainly no challenge.

 

So what is lame? Repetition of the same thing but there are a limited number of new and cool ideas especially if you are restricted to public parks.

 

I defaulted to a LPC because I saw little alternative. My goal was to attract people to a memorial that they might not know existed but because the memorial is placed in the middle of a busy highway overpass, there was no safe way to direct folks to the actual spot. That left the surrounding properties which are private and parking lots. So the choice was either no cache or (for now) a LPC. Is it a lame hide? Yes. Is the idea behind the cache worthwhile? Yes. Would I like to find an alternative? Sure.

 

Don't start banning hide location based on some one's subjective idea of what is lame. Ban something because it's unsafe but not because you think it's a "been there, done that" kind of cache.

Posted (edited)
I am trying to trick you. :P I can tell you that I visited several of those caches at night after visiting the local watering hole. We really had a lot of fun. :P
Did I fall for it, or am I too clever?

Fall for what? :P
I've got my eye on you.

Truth is I will not lift another one up. I'm not going to log them. This also goes for any very lame cache. No more caches near smelly garbage dumpsters. No more caches near migrant workers homes. It will be a spur of the moment decision whenever I run into one. I'm going to ignore all of these to remove them from my radar. Forget the ban, I'm boycotting them! :lol: Edited by TrailGators
Posted
I am trying to trick you. :lol: I can tell you that I visited several of those caches at night after visiting the local watering hole. We really had a lot of fun. :huh:
Did I fall for it, or am I too clever?

Fall for what? B)
I've got my eye on you.

Truth is I will not lift another one up. I'm not going to log them. This also goes for any very lame cache. No more caches near smelly garbage dumpsters. No more caches near migrant workers homes. It will be a spur of the moment decision whenever I run into one. I'm going to ignore all of these to remove them from my radar. Forget the ban, I'm boycotting them! B)

I don't know why you hadn't done this before. I congratulate you on improving your caching experience by making a personal decision.

 

And I hope you don't mind if I still find, and log, and appreciate them. I found one just 30 minutes ago by the way. I ran over to my wife's grandparents to pick something up, and decided to stop by the mall in between us to grab a quick smiley. It was a LPC, and I knew it was before going, but I still appreciated the owner for hiding it. :wub:

Posted
Truth is I will not lift another one up. I'm not going to log them. This also goes for any very lame cache. No more caches near smelly garbage dumpsters. No more caches near migrant workers homes. It will be a spur of the moment decision whenever I run into one. I'm going to ignore all of these to remove them from my radar. Forget the ban, I'm boycotting them! B)

applause.GIF (<-- NOT sarcastic)

 

Go for it, TrailGators. When talk doesn't work, vote with your feet!

 

You and I still don't agree about these caches, but I have the highest respect for anyone who sticks to their principles. If you can convince enough folks to follow you, you just might get some of the change you want!

 

Action trumps whining. Every time.

 

smiley-thumbsup.jpg

 

Just remember: One day at a time. We're here if you need us.

 

I can already tell you're going to be happier. Congratulations. :huh:

Posted (edited)
Truth is I will not lift another one up. I'm not going to log them. This also goes for any very lame cache. No more caches near smelly garbage dumpsters. No more caches near migrant workers homes. It will be a spur of the moment decision whenever I run into one. I'm going to ignore all of these to remove them from my radar. Forget the ban, I'm boycotting them! B)

applause.GIF (<-- NOT sarcastic)

 

Go for it, TrailGators. When talk doesn't work, vote with your feet!

 

You and I still don't agree about these caches, but I have the highest respect for anyone who sticks to their principles. If you can convince enough folks to follow you, you just might get some of the change you want!

 

Action trumps whining. Every time.

 

smiley-thumbsup.jpg

 

Just remember: One day at a time. We're here if you need us.

 

I can already tell you're going to be happier. Congratulations. :huh:

Like James Brown used to sing "I feeeeel good!" dancingbw4.gif Edited by TrailGators
Posted
My work here is done.

Really? Another successful session of shouting folks down until they walk away rolling their eyes and shaking their head? Good for you. Really, what have you changed? I suspect, um, oh yeah, nothing.

Posted
Isn't there a word for telling people to act one way while you do the exact opposite? It's right there on the tip of my tongue...

You're exactly right, Fizzy. TrailGators should just go on ahead and stress himself out beyond sanity over his inability to tolerate or avoid caches that don't entertain him, and ignore all advice to the contrary. In fact he should concentrate on what a pain in the bum those LPCs are to him, and therefore lead by example. Maybe then us hypocrites could learn from him and become proper whiners too.

I've got to really wonder if you realize how silly this statement makes you look. What if everyone took the same stance on every issue that adversely affects society. What kind of world would we live in?

Posted (edited)
My work here is done.
Really? Another successful session of shouting folks down until they walk away rolling their eyes and shaking their head? Good for you. Really, what have you changed? I suspect, um, oh yeah, nothing.
Isn't there a word for telling people to act one way while you do the exact opposite? It's right there on the tip of my tongue...
You're exactly right, Fizzy. TrailGators should just go on ahead and stress himself out beyond sanity over his inability to tolerate or avoid caches that don't entertain him, and ignore all advice to the contrary. In fact he should concentrate on what a pain in the bum those LPCs are to him, and therefore lead by example. Maybe then us hypocrites could learn from him and become proper whiners too.
I've got to really wonder if you realize how silly this statement makes you look. What if everyone took the same stance on every issue that adversely affects society. What kind of world would we live in?
Why do you insist on arguing rather than letting the thread roll off the screen? It would be one thing if your arguments had anything to do with the thread's topic, but they don't. Edited by sbell111
Posted
Isn't there a word for telling people to act one way while you do the exact opposite? It's right there on the tip of my tongue...

You're exactly right, Fizzy. TrailGators should just go on ahead and stress himself out beyond sanity over his inability to tolerate or avoid caches that don't entertain him, and ignore all advice to the contrary. In fact he should concentrate on what a pain in the bum those LPCs are to him, and therefore lead by example. Maybe then us hypocrites could learn from him and become proper whiners too.

I've got to really wonder if you realize how silly this statement makes you look. What if everyone took the same stance on every issue that adversely affects society. What kind of world would we live in?

By this you're clearly suggesting that LPCs adversely affect society. Nevermind the FACT that a LOT of people enjoy finding them. If you (and several others) don't enjoy them, then they must be adversely affecting society.

 

Talk about statements making someone look silly! Jeez. :huh:

Posted
Why do you insist on arguing rather than letting the thread roll off the screen? It would be one thing if your arguments had anything to do with the thread's topic, but they don't.

And yet you don't do the same thing you're admonishing me about yourself. Go figure.

Posted
By this you're clearly suggesting that LPCs adversely affect society. Nevermind the FACT that a LOT of people enjoy finding them. If you (and several others) don't enjoy them, then they must be adversely affecting society.

 

Talk about statements making someone look silly! Jeez. :huh:

I bet you would have taken the same stance on codeword caches, virts before "wow" and moving caches, too. Those, too, had folks enjoying them. So, tell me, does the fact that folks enjoy doing a particular activity automatically make it a good thing?

 

I've got to wonder what kind of person you really are. I have to wonder what your idea of "harmless fun" really is.

Posted
Why do you insist on arguing rather than letting the thread roll off the screen? It would be one thing if your arguments had anything to do with the thread's topic, but they don't.
And yet you don't do the same thing you're admonishing me about yourself. Go figure.
My post was five minutes after yours. I hardly pulled the thread back from the brink.
Posted
By this you're clearly suggesting that LPCs adversely affect society. Nevermind the FACT that a LOT of people enjoy finding them. If you (and several others) don't enjoy them, then they must be adversely affecting society.

 

Talk about statements making someone look silly! Jeez. :huh:

I bet you would have taken the same stance on codeword caches, virts before "wow" and moving caches, too. Those, too, had folks enjoying them. So, tell me, does the fact that folks enjoy doing a particular activity automatically make it a good thing?

 

I've got to wonder what kind of person you really are. I have to wonder what your idea of "harmless fun" really is.

I have to wonder why you insist on personalizing issues, rather than simply debating the merits.
Posted
By this you're clearly suggesting that LPCs adversely affect society. Nevermind the FACT that a LOT of people enjoy finding them. If you (and several others) don't enjoy them, then they must be adversely affecting society.

 

Talk about statements making someone look silly! Jeez. :huh:

I bet you would have taken the same stance on codeword caches, virts before "wow" and moving caches, too. Those, too, had folks enjoying them. So, tell me, does the fact that folks enjoy doing a particular activity automatically make it a good thing?

 

I've got to wonder what kind of person you really are. I have to wonder what your idea of "harmless fun" really is.

This is just getting sillier.

 

CR, there is a HUGE difference in an activity that is part of a game having an overall negative impact on that game, and it being an "issue that adversely affects society." If you can't tell the difference between this game, and society, then I have to wonder what kind of person you really are.

 

I've found a couple of codeword caches a few years ago, and they were fun. No problem. However, I understand, and agree, that a container without a logbook doesn't count as a cache and should have been removed as an allowable game piece.

 

Virtual caches, with and without "wow", same thing. No log book OR container. I don't miss them.

 

Moving caches had a serious problem of being placed in areas that were against the guidelines, and I assume they were terminated after some caused problems. Good riddance.

 

So to answer your question, no, people enjoying an activity doesn't automatically make it a good thing. The reasons they removed the other caches you mentioned doesn't apply to LPCs. LPCs have a container, a log book, and are located in an approved location that meets the listing guidelines. They're just as much a cache as an ammo can in the woods is, and enjoyed by just as many people.

 

I've answered your question, now please answer mine. Does the fact that you don't enjoy a particular activity automatically make it a bad thing?

Posted

My work here is done.

"And the Lord did grin, and the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals and fruit bats and large chu...." B)

Skip a bit, brother. :huh:

Posted (edited)
So to answer your question, no, people enjoying an activity doesn't automatically make it a good thing. The reasons they removed the other caches you mentioned doesn't apply to LPCs. LPCs have a container, a log book, and are located in an approved location that meets the listing guidelines. They're just as much a cache as an ammo can in the woods is, and enjoyed by just as many people.
Good to know that you realize the argument "a lot of people enjoy them" is a non-starter as a reason for any cache style or type to not be looked at with concern.

 

I've answered your question, now please answer mine. Does the fact that you don't enjoy a particular activity automatically make it a bad thing?
Of course not. I'm not looking at merely the fact that I don't enjoy them, but also at the real viability of LPCs and many urban caches, in general. I'm not against all urban caches, we own some ourselves, but if you think you can compare ours with LPCs, Wal-mart micros, or parking lot caches, in general, you'll look sillier than you do now. The OP (remember him?) and his opening post suggested thinking twice when placing caches in urban settings. You guys counter with "nuh, uh!"

 

What I don't get is the ease with which you guys defend the unauthorized tampering with of private property. You really equate tossing a bit of debris over an ammo box with tampering with electrical equipment?

 

EDIT: fixed quotes.

Edited by CoyoteRed
Posted
So to answer your question, no, people enjoying an activity doesn't automatically make it a good thing. The reasons they removed the other caches you mentioned doesn't apply to LPCs. LPCs have a container, a log book, and are located in an approved location that meets the listing guidelines. They're just as much a cache as an ammo can in the woods is, and enjoyed by just as many people.
Good to know that you realize the argument "a lot of people enjoy them" is a non-starter as a reason for any cache style or type to not be looked at with concern.
"A lot of people enjoy them" is a reply to the "they're lame and don't add anything to the game so they should be removed" argument. The translation of that argument is "I think they're lame, I don't enjoy them, they don't add anything for me, so they should be removed". Thus, pointing out that a lot of other people enjoy them is perfectly valid.

 

I've answered your question, now please answer mine. Does the fact that you don't enjoy a particular activity automatically make it a bad thing?
Of course not. I'm not looking at merely the fact that I don't enjoy them, but also at the real viability of LPCs and many urban caches, in general. I'm not against all urban caches, we own some ourselves, but if you think you can compare ours with LPCs, Wal-mart micros, or parking lot caches, in general, you'll look sillier than you do now. The OP (remember him?) and his opening post suggested thinking twice when placing caches in urban settings. You guys counter with "nuh, uh!"
Contunuing to call me silly, or saying that I look silly, is getting old. Please stay in the debate and quit getting personal. I've been booted from the forums for much less obvious personal attacks, so I'd appreciate you follow the same rules.

 

What I don't get is the ease with which you guys defend the unauthorized tampering with of private property. You really equate tossing a bit of debris over an ammo box with tampering with electrical equipment?
Well, if you're saying that the problem you have with the LPCs is the permission, that's different than the usual "lameness" argument. Permission given/not given is an issue with all kinds of caches, and not just urbans or LPCs. Banning the LPCs would not remove that issue at all.

 

And you may look for LPCs different than I do, but lifting a skirt that covers bolts doesn't seem to be "tampering" to me. People that take a screwdriver to the cover plate are the same kinds of people that shove their hands into holes in the ground while looking for a cache in the woods, and get bit by something. I'm not all all interested in banning a kind of cache just to save people from themselves.

Posted
My work here is done.

Really? Another successful session of shouting folks down until they walk away rolling their eyes and shaking their head? Good for you.

You mean TrailGators? He didn't look or sound that way to me at all.

 

Didn't you see? He was dancing and singing!!!

I can already tell you're going to be happier. Congratulations. B)
Like James Brown used to sing "I feeeeel good!" dancingbw4.gif

 

:huh:

 

 

Really, what have you changed? I suspect, um, oh yeah, nothing.

That's provably untrue -- as long as TrailGators sticks to his new 12-step program, that is.

 

He came into this discussion whining, as so many forum posters do, about all the lame lamppost caches he kept finding that he didn't enjoy.

 

He left here equipped with the new understanding that he has the power to easily avoid (or refuse to log) the caches he doesn't like -- along with the hope that other complainers like you will follow his lead, thereby creating a movement.

 

No need to argue this point right now -- you and I need only sit back and watch to see whether anything has changed. All we have to do is track TrailGators' 'find' history via his profile, going forward from last night. As soon as he logs his next lame lamppost cache you can report back here and tell me that I failed to change anything. I'll even give you permission right here, in advance, to use the term "neener neener neener" in your report.

 

It's only been 12 hours now since his declaration, but so far he hasn't logged any LPCs -- and neither has he posted any "I hate lame caches" complaints. I've already volunteered to be in his support group so he'll have someone to lean on for help if he wavers.

 

TrailGators has demonstrated that you have a choice, Coyote. Are you going to follow his example and join the boycott-lame-caches movement, or are you going to continue your current strategy of using the forums to whine about lameness, preaching to everyone how they should be playing the game properly by doing it more to your liking?

 

I sometimes enjoy LPCs. I vote with my feet.

 

TrailGators NEVER enjoys LPCs. He's now voting with HIS feet.

 

How 'bout you, CR? Action, man! Action! Not words! Action! B)

 

Gonna join the movement?

Posted
By this you're clearly suggesting that LPCs adversely affect society. Nevermind the FACT that a LOT of people enjoy finding them. If you (and several others) don't enjoy them, then they must be adversely affecting society.

 

Talk about statements making someone look silly! Jeez. :huh:

I bet you would have taken the same stance on codeword caches, virts before "wow" and moving caches, too. Those, too, had folks enjoying them. So, tell me, does the fact that folks enjoy doing a particular activity automatically make it a good thing?

 

I've got to wonder what kind of person you really are. I have to wonder what your idea of "harmless fun" really is.

I have to wonder why you insist on personalizing issues, rather than simply debating the merits.

I think sbell111 has a point here. From the Forum Guidelines:

If you want to praise or criticize, give examples as to why it is good or bad, general attacks on a person or idea will not be tolerated.

There's also a gem of a paragraph about

Private Discussions: Sometimes, a discussion thread strays off into a friendly dialogue or a heated debate among a very small number of users. For these exchanges, use the private discussion feature that is provided through the Groundspeak forums, or the Geocaching.com e-mail system. Public forum posts should be reserved for matters of interest to the general community.

I think we're at the point where these Guidelines ought to be enforced. But the moderators are going to have some fun with it.

 

Imagine everyone who's posted on the past two pages being stranded together on a traffic island that has a cache on it. They're debating the merits of the cache. Whenever one of the posters personalizes the discussion towards one of the others, or generalizes an idea as "lame," "stupid," etc., they'll be asked to leave the traffic island. The last one left gets to ask for the thread to be closed. I call it "Survivor: Lamp Post."

 

(Of course, so long as nobody crosses that boundary, the thread may continue as a respectful discussion about banning lamp post caches.)

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