To ban or not to ban LPC's

[Mushtang]

Is this the kind of thing we want to take no action on because I might be wrong?

I vote no action.

 

You're suggesting limiting LPCs, limiting geocaches, limiting the fun I get to have, limiting the fun a LOT of other people that like LPCs get to have, limiting the growth of a hobby that we enjoy so much, just because you think that maybe someone someday might have a problem?

 

You drive your car to work I'm guessing. Do you realize how dangerous that might be? If you had a wreck, or some drunk driver smashed into you, you could have serious problems. You might be okay since you've done okay so far. But... is that the kind of risk you want to take because I might be wrong?

 

If you want to insist that explicit permission be given for every cache, that's a good discussion for a different thread. If you want to use that as a reason for limiting (or banning) LPCs only, then I'm going to tell you that it's not a good enough reason.

 

Why does the suggestion of pro actively approaching Walmart for explicit across the board permission to put caches on their property bother you so much? Is it more fun for you if you are "getting away" with something?

You need to pay closer attention. I never said that asking permission bothered me.

 

So what did they say when you approached them?

[X-isle]

I'm new to all of this, and have not read this entire thread. But my newbie 2 cents are as follows;

I DON'T do LPC's. They're dangeous, damaging, and I'm sure would be considered vandalism by onlooking police. As an x police officer, I know of what I speak. There are many good cache spots available without LPC's. I don't care if they are banned or not. I won't do them. And eventually, they will hurt the sport. Undoubtably! Absolutely! Sooner or later, geocaching will suffer over this. Not to mention, someone may be in for a big shock!

 

As a former law enforcement agent, I understand your position on any cache where you could be considered a vandal, trespasser, or the like. What has been your experience so far in finding these types of caches? Have you found one on commercial private property yet, for example in a Walmart parking lot? How would you have treated finding someone seeking a cache like this when you were an officer?

 

Had I encountered the evil geocacher by chance, I would have warned him of the ramifications, both legally and to his safety, and told him to get going. On the other hand, had I been dispatched and caught the perp in the act, it would be up to the proprietor to sign a complaint, in which case I would be obliged to arrest the unfortunate cacher. Sad, but a fact of life. A simple misdemeanor and a meager fine would remind the fellow it is not a good idea to unscrew and tamper with access panels on parking lot light polls that belong to someone with little tolerance for such activities. Really guys...it's just not a good idea. I went to a cache today in a small town. It wasn't a light poll, but an electric sign poll. So I drove all that way to a cache that I refuse to recover. One poorly insulated wire, and zap! And if you're standing in water, forget it. You're history. Frankly, LPC's are stupid and dangerous.

[+The Jester]

I'm new to all of this, and have not read this entire thread. But my newbie 2 cents are as follows;

I DON'T do LPC's. They're dangeous, damaging, and I'm sure would be considered vandalism by onlooking police. As an x police officer, I know of what I speak. There are many good cache spots available without LPC's. I don't care if they are banned or not. I won't do them. And eventually, they will hurt the sport. Undoubtably! Absolutely! Sooner or later, geocaching will suffer over this. Not to mention, someone may be in for a big shock!

 

As a former law enforcement agent, I understand your position on any cache where you could be considered a vandal, trespasser, or the like. What has been your experience so far in finding these types of caches? Have you found one on commercial private property yet, for example in a Walmart parking lot? How would you have treated finding someone seeking a cache like this when you were an officer?

 

Had I encountered the evil geocacher by chance, I would have warned him of the ramifications, both legally and to his safety, and told him to get going. On the other hand, had I been dispatched and caught the perp in the act, it would be up to the proprietor to sign a complaint, in which case I would be obliged to arrest the unfortunate cacher. Sad, but a fact of life. A simple misdemeanor and a meager fine would remind the fellow it is not a good idea to unscrew and tamper with access panels on parking lot light polls that belong to someone with little tolerance for such activities. Really guys...it's just not a good idea. I went to a cache today in a small town. It wasn't a light poll, but an electric sign poll. So I drove all that way to a cache that I refuse to recover. One poorly insulated wire, and zap! And if you're standing in water, forget it. You're history. Frankly, LPC's are stupid and dangerous.

Are we talking about the same type of hide? Lifting the skirt that covers the bolts of a lamp post is quite different from unscrewing an access panel. No tools are needed for a LPC.

[Mushtang]

I'm new to all of this, and have not read this entire thread. But my newbie 2 cents are as follows;

I DON'T do LPC's. They're dangeous, damaging, and I'm sure would be considered vandalism by onlooking police. As an x police officer, I know of what I speak. There are many good cache spots available without LPC's. I don't care if they are banned or not. I won't do them. And eventually, they will hurt the sport. Undoubtably! Absolutely! Sooner or later, geocaching will suffer over this. Not to mention, someone may be in for a big shock!

 

As a former law enforcement agent, I understand your position on any cache where you could be considered a vandal, trespasser, or the like. What has been your experience so far in finding these types of caches? Have you found one on commercial private property yet, for example in a Walmart parking lot? How would you have treated finding someone seeking a cache like this when you were an officer?

 

Had I encountered the evil geocacher by chance, I would have warned him of the ramifications, both legally and to his safety, and told him to get going. On the other hand, had I been dispatched and caught the perp in the act, it would be up to the proprietor to sign a complaint, in which case I would be obliged to arrest the unfortunate cacher. Sad, but a fact of life. A simple misdemeanor and a meager fine would remind the fellow it is not a good idea to unscrew and tamper with access panels on parking lot light polls that belong to someone with little tolerance for such activities. Really guys...it's just not a good idea. I went to a cache today in a small town. It wasn't a light poll, but an electric sign poll. So I drove all that way to a cache that I refuse to recover. One poorly insulated wire, and zap! And if you're standing in water, forget it. You're history. Frankly, LPC's are stupid and dangerous.

Are we talking about the same type of hide? Lifting the skirt that covers the bolts of a lamp post is quite different from unscrewing an access panel. No tools are needed for a LPC.

Well, he did say he hadn't read the entire thread. I had dismissed his comment based on that, and it because it seemed to me that he was talking about people unscrewing access covers to get to the inside.

[+TrailGators]

While, I was out of town for a few days and you guys made 3 more pages. I'm not sure what if any conclusions were drawn. But I had an interesting thought I started thinking about the difference between LPCs and virtuals. We all know that virtuals were banned because they got so "bad" by somebody's definition of "bad" that GS had to enforce a "wow" test. Virtuals also had an issue because they didn't have swag. Anyhow, if that "wow" test were applied to LPCs they would not pass. Also a large amount of LPCs do not have any swag. So do we have a double standard here? One interesting thing to note is that a lamp post virtual (LPV) has some big benefits over LPCs in that you don't need permission from Wal-Mart; they don't get muggled and the lamp posts never get damaged by rough cachers.

Edited March 1, 2007 by TrailGators

[Mushtang]

While, I was out of town for a few days and you guys made 3 more pages. I'm not sure what if any conclusions were drawn. But I had an interesting thought I started thinking about the difference between LPCs and virtuals. We all know that virtuals were banned because they got so "bad" by somebody's definition of "bad" that GS had to enforce a "wow" test. Virtuals also had an issue because they didn't have swag. Anyhow, if that "wow" test were applied to LPCs they would not pass.

Most caches wouldn't pass the Wow test, not just LPCs. An ammo can in the woods covered with sticks is neat the first time you see it, but fairly easy to spot after a while. Most of the ammo cans I've found lately were in the backs of parks and didn't really wow me. (and the virtuals had an issue because they had no log book, not because they had no trade items) Are you suggesting that all caches need to pass the Wow test, or just LPCs?

 

Also a large amount of LPCs do not have any swag. So do we have a double standard here? One interesting thing to note is that a lamp post virtual (LPV) has some big benefits over LPCs in that you don't need permission from Wal-Mart; they don't get muggled and the lamp posts never get damaged by rough cachers.

Once again the difference between "LPCs" and "Micros" is being blurred to try and hold up the anti-LPC crowd. Are you suggesting that something happen to all caches without swag, or just LPCs?

[+TrailGators]

While, I was out of town for a few days and you guys made 3 more pages. I'm not sure what if any conclusions were drawn. But I had an interesting thought I started thinking about the difference between LPCs and virtuals. We all know that virtuals were banned because they got so "bad" by somebody's definition of "bad" that GS had to enforce a "wow" test. Virtuals also had an issue because they didn't have swag. Anyhow, if that "wow" test were applied to LPCs they would not pass.

Most caches wouldn't pass the Wow test, not just LPCs. An ammo can in the woods covered with sticks is neat the first time you see it, but fairly easy to spot after a while. Most of the ammo cans I've found lately were in the backs of parks and didn't really wow me. (and the virtuals had an issue because they had no log book, not because they had no trade items) Are you suggesting that all caches need to pass the Wow test, or just LPCs?

 

Also a large amount of LPCs do not have any swag. So do we have a double standard here? One interesting thing to note is that a lamp post virtual (LPV) has some big benefits over LPCs in that you don't need permission from Wal-Mart; they don't get muggled and the lamp posts never get damaged by rough cachers.

Once again the difference between "LPCs" and "Micros" is being blurred to try and hold up the anti-LPC crowd. Are you suggesting that something happen to all caches without swag, or just LPCs?

The thread is about LPCs so I'm keeping it on topic. I made a simple observation about LPCs. I didn't suggest anything. Did you see a suggestion? Also look up the definition of "cache," and see if most LPCs fit that definition.

[Mushtang]

While, I was out of town for a few days and you guys made 3 more pages. I'm not sure what if any conclusions were drawn. But I had an interesting thought I started thinking about the difference between LPCs and virtuals. We all know that virtuals were banned because they got so "bad" by somebody's definition of "bad" that GS had to enforce a "wow" test. Virtuals also had an issue because they didn't have swag. Anyhow, if that "wow" test were applied to LPCs they would not pass.

Most caches wouldn't pass the Wow test, not just LPCs. An ammo can in the woods covered with sticks is neat the first time you see it, but fairly easy to spot after a while. Most of the ammo cans I've found lately were in the backs of parks and didn't really wow me. (and the virtuals had an issue because they had no log book, not because they had no trade items) Are you suggesting that all caches need to pass the Wow test, or just LPCs?

 

Also a large amount of LPCs do not have any swag. So do we have a double standard here? One interesting thing to note is that a lamp post virtual (LPV) has some big benefits over LPCs in that you don't need permission from Wal-Mart; they don't get muggled and the lamp posts never get damaged by rough cachers.

Once again the difference between "LPCs" and "Micros" is being blurred to try and hold up the anti-LPC crowd. Are you suggesting that something happen to all caches without swag, or just LPCs?

The thread is about LPCs so I'm keeping it on topic.

And I'm just curious if your opinions apply to all caches or just LPCs. I thought it might be okay to try and clarify your position. My bad.

 

I made a simple observation about LPCs. I didn't suggest anything. Did you see a suggestion?

Again, just asking if you were suggesting anything specific to LPCs or caches in general. I wouldn't want there to be a double standard you know.

 

Also look up the definition of "cache," and see if most LPCs fit that definition.

Cache, as a gamepiece of this site, is defined as a container with a log book at the minimum. So yes, they fit the definition just as much as any other micro would.

[+TrailGators]

While, I was out of town for a few days and you guys made 3 more pages. I'm not sure what if any conclusions were drawn. But I had an interesting thought I started thinking about the difference between LPCs and virtuals. We all know that virtuals were banned because they got so "bad" by somebody's definition of "bad" that GS had to enforce a "wow" test. Virtuals also had an issue because they didn't have swag. Anyhow, if that "wow" test were applied to LPCs they would not pass.

Most caches wouldn't pass the Wow test, not just LPCs. An ammo can in the woods covered with sticks is neat the first time you see it, but fairly easy to spot after a while. Most of the ammo cans I've found lately were in the backs of parks and didn't really wow me. (and the virtuals had an issue because they had no log book, not because they had no trade items) Are you suggesting that all caches need to pass the Wow test, or just LPCs?

 

Also a large amount of LPCs do not have any swag. So do we have a double standard here? One interesting thing to note is that a lamp post virtual (LPV) has some big benefits over LPCs in that you don't need permission from Wal-Mart; they don't get muggled and the lamp posts never get damaged by rough cachers.

Once again the difference between "LPCs" and "Micros" is being blurred to try and hold up the anti-LPC crowd. Are you suggesting that something happen to all caches without swag, or just LPCs?

The thread is about LPCs so I'm keeping it on topic.

And I'm just curious if your opinions apply to all caches or just LPCs. I thought it might be okay to try and clarify your position. My bad.

 

I made a simple observation about LPCs. I didn't suggest anything. Did you see a suggestion?

Again, just asking if you were suggesting anything specific to LPCs or caches in general. I wouldn't want there to be a double standard you know.

 

Also look up the definition of "cache," and see if most LPCs fit that definition.

Cache, as a gamepiece of this site, is defined as a container with a log book at the minimum. So yes, they fit the definition just as much as any other micro would.

Whenever banning/bringing back virtuals was debated one of the most frequently mentioned points was the fact that virtuals were not caches by the true definition. I had a hard time countering this argument this because it was a valid point. The same point applies to LPCs, which is the type of cache that we are discussing. I guess you could argue that an LPC is a cache of crumpled up paper....

 

Edited March 1, 2007 by TrailGators

[+DrAwKwArD]

Most caches wouldn't pass the Wow test, not just LPCs. An ammo can in the woods covered with sticks is neat the first time you see it, but fairly easy to spot after a while. Most of the ammo cans I've found lately were in the backs of parks and didn't really wow me. (and the virtuals had an issue because they had no log book, not because they had no trade items) Are you suggesting that all caches need to pass the Wow test, or just LPCs?

I keep hearing this come up again and again. So many people like to say (to defend lame cache hides), "an ammo box with sticks as cover is just as lame as any lamp post cache!" Are you kidding? You even mention where you are finding this ammo box.. in a city park. Big difference between city park and PARKing lot

 

Also, would you rather the ammo can NOT be covered in sticks? Not a very bright idea. It's got to be covered with something and sticks are what lay around some parks. Oh, it didn't WOW you, right. Well, was it the park that was lame or the fact that you could see the cache from several feet away? I personally have not been underwhelmed by a cache that brought me to a neat place. This is regardless of whether the cache was easy to find or not. The suspense of finding the cache is now replaced with the suspense of "what will I find.. perhaps a travel bug or geocoin? What did others have to write in the log book?" Honestly, the suspense is dead or dying by the time you round the curve into Wally World. "Third lamp post from the store, middle row.. yawn.. next."

Edited March 1, 2007 by cache-n-dash

[+TrailGators]

Most caches wouldn't pass the Wow test, not just LPCs. An ammo can in the woods covered with sticks is neat the first time you see it, but fairly easy to spot after a while. Most of the ammo cans I've found lately were in the backs of parks and didn't really wow me. (and the virtuals had an issue because they had no log book, not because they had no trade items) Are you suggesting that all caches need to pass the Wow test, or just LPCs?

I keep hearing this come up again and again. So many people like to say (to defend lame cache hides), "an ammo box with sticks as cover is just as lame as any lamp post cache!" Are you kidding? You even mention where you are finding this ammo box.. in a city park. Big difference between city park and PARKing lot

 

Also, would you rather the ammo can NOT be covered in sticks? Not a very bright idea. It's got to be covered with something and sticks are what lay around some parks. Oh, it didn't WOW you, right. Well, was it the park that was lame or the fact that you could see the cache from several feet away? I personally have not been underwhelmed by a cache that brought me to a neat place. This is regardless of whether the cache was easy to find or not. The suspense of finding the cache is now replaced with the suspense of "what will I find.. perhaps a travel bug or geocoin? What did others have to right in the log book?" Honestly, the suspense is dead or dying by the time you round the curve into Wally World. "Third lamp post from the store, middle row.. yawn.. next."

I totally agree.

[ol'dad]

Briansnat's post in another thread made me think: So the access panel hide does exist?

 

My second LPC hunt included me digging out a screwdriver and opening up the access panel until I came to my senses.. DNF. This is yet another reason to avoid any type of cache that can be misconstrued and private property being tampered with. Another case in point was my first LPC hunt at a state prison nonetheless. I proceded to bypass the lamp post and go straight for the sprinkler head. When it proved obvious that it WAS a sprinkler head I couldn't get the darn thing back together, so I promptly took my leave. I came home and discovered that 4 of the previous finders had been approached by security personnel in a not-so-nice manner. The moral to the story: Think before you hide urban micros. If you still plan to hide one.. think some more. Prison cache link:Phatboyz: Goto Jail! Do not pass go... hidden 9/25/04 but now archived.

I have just stumbled upon this thread on LPC caches, and I must say that I am extremely dismayed. The very idea of hiding a cache container inside a Liquid Propane Container (LPC) sounds, to me, to be EXTREMELY hazardous to the hider, to prospective finders and even to the entire neighborhood in which the liquid propane gas tank is located. It is ALWAYS extemely dangerous to open such a pressurized propane tank and it should never be done under any circumstances! Please, if you ever encounter an LPC cache, please avoid it at all costs, and please report it to the reviewer!

 

Also, it has come to my attention that there has been talk in this thread of "lifting skirts". Please, I urge you, keep this fourm family-friendly and God-friendly, and please stop making comments about lifting women's skirts. Such is gutter talk, the talk of heathens and hooligans; I know this to be true because my sainted Mother told me so when I was still quite small and my Mother was never wrong. Thank you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

I can't believe I read this whole thread! Is it really that big of an issue? I did like the Vinny & Sue Team comment at least - it made it all worthwhile!! I guess that I've got a long way to go before I understand the emotional intensity in this game.

 

I did just think though - could there be liability issues if someone did get zapped or otherwise hurt? Who would be liable - the one who hid the cache without the landowners permission or the landowner? Wouldn't the lawyers have fun!!

[Mushtang]

While, I was out of town for a few days and you guys made 3 more pages. I'm not sure what if any conclusions were drawn. But I had an interesting thought I started thinking about the difference between LPCs and virtuals. We all know that virtuals were banned because they got so "bad" by somebody's definition of "bad" that GS had to enforce a "wow" test. Virtuals also had an issue because they didn't have swag. Anyhow, if that "wow" test were applied to LPCs they would not pass.

Most caches wouldn't pass the Wow test, not just LPCs. An ammo can in the woods covered with sticks is neat the first time you see it, but fairly easy to spot after a while. Most of the ammo cans I've found lately were in the backs of parks and didn't really wow me. (and the virtuals had an issue because they had no log book, not because they had no trade items) Are you suggesting that all caches need to pass the Wow test, or just LPCs?

 

Also a large amount of LPCs do not have any swag. So do we have a double standard here? One interesting thing to note is that a lamp post virtual (LPV) has some big benefits over LPCs in that you don't need permission from Wal-Mart; they don't get muggled and the lamp posts never get damaged by rough cachers.

Once again the difference between "LPCs" and "Micros" is being blurred to try and hold up the anti-LPC crowd. Are you suggesting that something happen to all caches without swag, or just LPCs?

The thread is about LPCs so I'm keeping it on topic.

And I'm just curious if your opinions apply to all caches or just LPCs. I thought it might be okay to try and clarify your position. My bad.

 

I made a simple observation about LPCs. I didn't suggest anything. Did you see a suggestion?

Again, just asking if you were suggesting anything specific to LPCs or caches in general. I wouldn't want there to be a double standard you know.

 

Also look up the definition of "cache," and see if most LPCs fit that definition.

Cache, as a gamepiece of this site, is defined as a container with a log book at the minimum. So yes, they fit the definition just as much as any other micro would.

Whenever banning/bringing back virtuals was debated one of the most frequently mentioned points was the fact that virtuals were not caches by the true definition. I had a hard time countering this argument this because it was a valid point. The same point applies to MICROs, which is the type of cache that I am discussing. I guess you could argue that an MICRO is a cache of crumpled up paper....

 

I fixed it for you.

[+TrailGators]

While, I was out of town for a few days and you guys made 3 more pages. I'm not sure what if any conclusions were drawn. But I had an interesting thought I started thinking about the difference between LPCs and virtuals. We all know that virtuals were banned because they got so "bad" by somebody's definition of "bad" that GS had to enforce a "wow" test. Virtuals also had an issue because they didn't have swag. Anyhow, if that "wow" test were applied to LPCs they would not pass.

Most caches wouldn't pass the Wow test, not just LPCs. An ammo can in the woods covered with sticks is neat the first time you see it, but fairly easy to spot after a while. Most of the ammo cans I've found lately were in the backs of parks and didn't really wow me. (and the virtuals had an issue because they had no log book, not because they had no trade items) Are you suggesting that all caches need to pass the Wow test, or just LPCs?

 

Also a large amount of LPCs do not have any swag. So do we have a double standard here? One interesting thing to note is that a lamp post virtual (LPV) has some big benefits over LPCs in that you don't need permission from Wal-Mart; they don't get muggled and the lamp posts never get damaged by rough cachers.

Once again the difference between "LPCs" and "Micros" is being blurred to try and hold up the anti-LPC crowd. Are you suggesting that something happen to all caches without swag, or just LPCs?

The thread is about LPCs so I'm keeping it on topic.

And I'm just curious if your opinions apply to all caches or just LPCs. I thought it might be okay to try and clarify your position. My bad.

 

I made a simple observation about LPCs. I didn't suggest anything. Did you see a suggestion?

Again, just asking if you were suggesting anything specific to LPCs or caches in general. I wouldn't want there to be a double standard you know.

 

Also look up the definition of "cache," and see if most LPCs fit that definition.

Cache, as a gamepiece of this site, is defined as a container with a log book at the minimum. So yes, they fit the definition just as much as any other micro would.

Whenever banning/bringing back virtuals was debated one of the most frequently mentioned points was the fact that virtuals were not caches by the true definition. I had a hard time countering this argument this because it was a valid point. The same point applies to MICROs, which is the type of cache that I am discussing. I guess you could argue that an MICRO is a cache of crumpled up paper....

 

I fixed it for you.

Again the topic is LPCs. LPCs have more disadvantages than other types of micros and other types of caches. Yes, most micros don't have swag, but many micros are cleverly hidden or camouflaged and are much more fun to "find" than an LPC. So that elevates them above LPCs. Let's face it, pulling up to a lamp post in Wally World that you spot from 200 feet away is dull. So let's stick with talking specifically about LPCs, even though there are disadvantages that they share with other cache types.

[Clan Riffster]

Reading this thread reminds me of a conversation I had with a family member many moons ago. He is a civil law attorney. We were discussing the infamouse case where some lady spilled coffee on herself, then sued Mc D's for millions, cuz she wasn't bright enough to figure out that freshly served coffee might be hot. I asked him what kind of lawyer would take such a case, and his answer resonates through me whenever I read this thread;

"Some people will defend anything"

 

Consider the average LPC:

(yeah, I know there are exceptions)

The location is lame.

The hide technique is lame.

The container, (film canister), is lame.

 

Some people truly will defend anything.

[+TrailGators]

Reading this thread reminds me of a conversation I had with a family member many moons ago. He is a civil law attorney. We were discussing the infamouse case where some lady spilled coffee on herself, then sued Mc D's for millions, cuz she wasn't bright enough to figure out that freshly served coffee might be hot. I asked him what kind of lawyer would take such a case, and his answer resonates through me whenever I read this thread;

"Some people will defend anything"

 

Consider the average LPC:

(yeah, I know there are exceptions)

The location is lame.

The hide technique is lame.

The container, (film canister), is lame.

 

Some people truly will defend anything.

I wonder why that is.... Edited March 2, 2007 by TrailGators

[+The Jester]

Hmmm... LPC:

 

"hidding place" - check;

"ammo" - not allowed;

"food" - not allowed;

"treasure" - generally no, but sometimes yes;

"etc" - check.

 

Sound like a cache to me!

[+The Jester]

Most caches wouldn't pass the Wow test, not just LPCs. An ammo can in the woods covered with sticks is neat the first time you see it, but fairly easy to spot after a while. Most of the ammo cans I've found lately were in the backs of parks and didn't really wow me. (and the virtuals had an issue because they had no log book, not because they had no trade items) Are you suggesting that all caches need to pass the Wow test, or just LPCs?

I keep hearing this come up again and again. So many people like to say (to defend lame cache hides), "an ammo box with sticks as cover is just as lame as any lamp post cache!" Are you kidding? You even mention where you are finding this ammo box.. in a city park. Big difference between city park and PARKing lot

 

Also, would you rather the ammo can NOT be covered in sticks? Not a very bright idea. It's got to be covered with something and sticks are what lay around some parks. Oh, it didn't WOW you, right. Well, was it the park that was lame or the fact that you could see the cache from several feet away? I personally have not been underwhelmed by a cache that brought me to a neat place. This is regardless of whether the cache was easy to find or not. The suspense of finding the cache is now replaced with the suspense of "what will I find.. perhaps a travel bug or geocoin? What did others have to write in the log book?" Honestly, the suspense is dead or dying by the time you round the curve into Wally World. "Third lamp post from the store, middle row.. yawn.. next."

As a side note: not all LPC's are in parking lots. The last one I found was on trail thru a wooded section next to a college, obviously lit at night.

[+TrailGators]

Hmmm... LPC:

 

"hidding place" - check;

"ammo" - not allowed;

"food" - not allowed;

"treasure" - generally no, but sometimes yes;

"etc" - check.

 

Sound like a cache to me!

 

A hiding place for treasures or etc. in our case.

Most do not have treasures or etc.

Ergo.....

[+DrAwKwArD]

As a side note: not all LPC's are in parking lots. The last one I found was on trail thru a wooded section next to a college, obviously lit at night.

D'oh! Whose side are you on Jes'? As an Oregonian and former Portlander I vow that us PNW cachers have to stick together!

[+TrailGators]

Most caches wouldn't pass the Wow test, not just LPCs. An ammo can in the woods covered with sticks is neat the first time you see it, but fairly easy to spot after a while. Most of the ammo cans I've found lately were in the backs of parks and didn't really wow me. (and the virtuals had an issue because they had no log book, not because they had no trade items) Are you suggesting that all caches need to pass the Wow test, or just LPCs?

I keep hearing this come up again and again. So many people like to say (to defend lame cache hides), "an ammo box with sticks as cover is just as lame as any lamp post cache!" Are you kidding? You even mention where you are finding this ammo box.. in a city park. Big difference between city park and PARKing lot

 

Also, would you rather the ammo can NOT be covered in sticks? Not a very bright idea. It's got to be covered with something and sticks are what lay around some parks. Oh, it didn't WOW you, right. Well, was it the park that was lame or the fact that you could see the cache from several feet away? I personally have not been underwhelmed by a cache that brought me to a neat place. This is regardless of whether the cache was easy to find or not. The suspense of finding the cache is now replaced with the suspense of "what will I find.. perhaps a travel bug or geocoin? What did others have to write in the log book?" Honestly, the suspense is dead or dying by the time you round the curve into Wally World. "Third lamp post from the store, middle row.. yawn.. next."

As a side note: not all LPC's are in parking lots. The last one I found was on trail thru a wooded section next to a college, obviously lit at night.

Instead of talking about the vast majority of them let's talk about the rare exceptions since those more accurately characterize an LPC.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Reading this thread reminds me of a conversation I had with a family member many moons ago. He is a civil law attorney. We were discussing the infamouse case where some lady spilled coffee on herself, then sued Mc D's for millions, cuz she wasn't bright enough to figure out that freshly served coffee might be hot. I asked him what kind of lawyer would take such a case, and his answer resonates through me whenever I read this thread;

"Some people will defend anything"

Your attorney relative should read the case. It wasn't about the coffee being hot. It was about a certain company over-heating coffee beyond a reasonable and expected standard. We expect coffee to be hot. There are food service standards, in fact, for coffee serving temperatures. This company despite repeated warnings continued to serve coffee so hot as to physically burn consumers. That act, knowingly serving something so hot that it was held to be beyond a reasonable and expected standard, was what won the lady her lawsuit.

 

"Lady wins lawsuit because her coffee was hot" make s cute headline but doesn't tell the story.

 

Consider the average LPC:

(yeah, I know there are exceptions)

The location is lame.

The hide technique is lame.

The container, (film canister), is lame.

 

Some people truly will defend anything.

I wonder why that is....

It's because we like them, how hard is that to comprehend?

[+LAZARUS72]

I'm new to the geocaching world and this is my first real glimpse into the forums. I don't know why I was naive enough to think that the geocaching community was above silly banters about seemingly trivial issues. Arguments such as "Do we LPC tonight honey or don't we" are as fruitful as arguing for ones religion and political affiliation.

 

To each his own.

 

If you can't figure out you're going to Wally World or Target for a LPC, then you're not reading the description clearly and if you don't dig LPCs don't do them. People like them, so they will continue to be a part of this sport unless something major happens. As the disclaimer states, you assume all risks involved. If the GC.com admins thought LPCs were awful and impacting the environment in a negative way, they wouldn't allow the large number of LPCs that are currently hidden.

 

As with anything in life, it's your attitude that paints your perspective and the WOW factor. I personally continue to get geeked by any kind of cache I've found, from a micro at Wal-Mart to the travel bug filled ammo can hidden deep in the woods. Maybe after 1000 finds, my point of view will change on LPCs, but I dig this sport and will cache on.

[Mushtang]

Reading this thread reminds me of a conversation I had with a family member many moons ago. He is a civil law attorney. We were discussing the infamouse case where some lady spilled coffee on herself, then sued Mc D's for millions, cuz she wasn't bright enough to figure out that freshly served coffee might be hot. I asked him what kind of lawyer would take such a case, and his answer resonates through me whenever I read this thread;

"Some people will defend anything"

 

Consider the average LPC:

(yeah, I know there are exceptions)

The location is lame.

The hide technique is lame.

The container, (film canister), is lame.

 

Some people truly will defend anything.

I wonder why that is....

AR beat me to it, but yes, it's because some people LIKE them. Some of us enjoy being able to go out and find a CACHE when we're travelling and only have a few minutes. Or maybe I won't have a rental car and I'm only able to find a CACHE if it's within walking distance.

 

Just because you don't like a kind of CACHE hide, doesn't mean it's bad for everyone. Just don't do them. How hard is that to understand?

[Mushtang]

Hmmm... LPC:

 

"hidding place" - check;

"ammo" - not allowed;

"food" - not allowed;

"treasure" - generally no, but sometimes yes;

"etc" - check.

 

Sound like a cache to me!

 

A hiding place for treasures or etc. in our case.

Most do not have treasures or etc.

Ergo.....

I noticed on your definition you only showed the first definition given. I'm sure you cropped off the 4th one on purpose.

 

4. to put in a cache; conceal; hide. We're concealing and/or hiding the container and logbook. Ergo... ITS A CACHE!

 

And since you're trying to be super picky, why don't you find a definition of GEOCACHE and see if that one applies. I don't think anyone would look for a micro in a lamp post expecting to find ammo, food, or treasure. They're expecting to find a small container with a logbook only. Ergo... IT'S A GEOCACHE!

[+TrailGators]

And since you're trying to be super picky, why don't you find a definition of GEOCACHE and see if that one applies. I don't think anyone would look for a micro in a lamp post expecting to find ammo, food, or treasure. They're expecting to find a small container with a logbook only. Ergo... IT'S A GEOCACHE!

I'm not being super picky. I'm using the first and primary definition because it is most widely accepted meaning of the word. Yes, unfortunately it is a cache by a stretch of the definition. It's a cache by every stretch as well. You don't really "find" them. They are not "the language of location." None of them have interesting containers. Most don't have permission. They are the least enjoyed type of cache. Edited March 2, 2007 by TrailGators

[+TrailGators]

Reading this thread reminds me of a conversation I had with a family member many moons ago. He is a civil law attorney. We were discussing the infamouse case where some lady spilled coffee on herself, then sued Mc D's for millions, cuz she wasn't bright enough to figure out that freshly served coffee might be hot. I asked him what kind of lawyer would take such a case, and his answer resonates through me whenever I read this thread;

"Some people will defend anything"

Your attorney relative should read the case. It wasn't about the coffee being hot. It was about a certain company over-heating coffee beyond a reasonable and expected standard. We expect coffee to be hot. There are food service standards, in fact, for coffee serving temperatures. This company despite repeated warnings continued to serve coffee so hot as to physically burn consumers. That act, knowingly serving something so hot that it was held to be beyond a reasonable and expected standard, was what won the lady her lawsuit.

 

"Lady wins lawsuit because her coffee was hot" make s cute headline but doesn't tell the story.

 

Consider the average LPC:

(yeah, I know there are exceptions)

The location is lame.

The hide technique is lame.

The container, (film canister), is lame.

 

Some people truly will defend anything.

I wonder why that is....

It's because we like them, how hard is that to comprehend?

Not hard to comprehend. Hard to understand. See the difference?

[+tozainamboku]

Consider the average LPC:

(yeah, I know there are exceptions)

The location is lame.

The hide technique is lame.

The container, (film canister), is lame.

 

Some people truly will defend anything.

 

lame /leɪm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[leym]

adjective, lam·er, lam·est, verb, lamed, lam·ing, noun

–adjective

1. crippled or physically disabled, esp. in the foot or leg so as to limp or walk with difficulty.

2. impaired or disabled through defect or injury: a lame arm.

3. weak; inadequate; unsatisfactory; clumsy: a lame excuse.

4. Slang. out of touch with modern fads or trends; unsophisticated.

 

When someone uses the word lame to describe a cache, I make the assumption that it is being used in the slang definition 4 above. I.e., the cache is out of touch with someone's personal opinion of what makes a cache cool or trendy. I suppose that some may intend definition 2 (impaired or defective) or 3 (weak or unsatisfactory) but they seldom present any evidence of that.

 

If Clan Riffster meant definition 4 then I can't argue with him about personal opinion. If he meat definition 2 or 3 then I will defend the LPC.

 

Lame location - Perhaps. But I suspect that many believe that an LPC is in a perfectly satisfactory location. For some what makes a good location is that it is close and easy to get to. Some people are very happy to be able to find a cache while they are out running errands. Or perhaps they are visiting some place without a car and are happy they can walk to the LPC down the street from the hotel where they are saying.

 

Lame hide - Some people define a good hide as one that a geocacher can find easily but that muggles won't accidently find. One reason that LPCs are so popular is that they meet this definition. Even in high muggle areas, a geocacher can apply any of a number of stealth techniques to retrieve an LPC without bringing undo attention to a cache. While I have see some LPCs go missing, I see many that stay in place with little maintenance needed.

 

Lame container - 35mm containers are known to not be water tight. However the nature of the LPC hide gives added protection to the container. I have found LPCs in various parts of the country that are in much better shape than other caches. A 35mm container may be entirely adequate for an LPC.

Edited March 2, 2007 by tozainamboku

[+Team GeoBlast]

Most caches wouldn't pass the Wow test, not just LPCs. An ammo can in the woods covered with sticks is neat the first time you see it, but fairly easy to spot after a while. Most of the ammo cans I've found lately were in the backs of parks and didn't really wow me. (and the virtuals had an issue because they had no log book, not because they had no trade items) Are you suggesting that all caches need to pass the Wow test, or just LPCs?

I keep hearing this come up again and again. So many people like to say (to defend lame cache hides), "an ammo box with sticks as cover is just as lame as any lamp post cache!" Are you kidding? You even mention where you are finding this ammo box.. in a city park. Big difference between city park and PARKing lot

 

Also, would you rather the ammo can NOT be covered in sticks? Not a very bright idea. It's got to be covered with something and sticks are what lay around some parks. Oh, it didn't WOW you, right. Well, was it the park that was lame or the fact that you could see the cache from several feet away? I personally have not been underwhelmed by a cache that brought me to a neat place. This is regardless of whether the cache was easy to find or not. The suspense of finding the cache is now replaced with the suspense of "what will I find.. perhaps a travel bug or geocoin? What did others have to write in the log book?" Honestly, the suspense is dead or dying by the time you round the curve into Wally World. "Third lamp post from the store, middle row.. yawn.. next."

 

I agree with this. There's too many fundamental differences between an ammo box in the woods and an LPC and the comparison between the two pushes the focus too far away from the topic.

[Mushtang]

And since you're trying to be super picky, why don't you find a definition of GEOCACHE and see if that one applies. I don't think anyone would look for a micro in a lamp post expecting to find ammo, food, or treasure. They're expecting to find a small container with a logbook only. Ergo... IT'S A GEOCACHE!

I'm not being super picky. I'm using the first and primary definition because it is most widely accepted meaning of the word.

Not on this site, and not on any other geocaching site. We're not hunting caches of food or valuable treasure that someone has hidden in order to come back to later and have ready. We're hunting geocaches, which are containers that have logbooks, and sometimes some small trinkets.

 

Yes, unfortunately it is a cache by a stretch of the definition.

By definition 1, I agree.

 

It's a cache by every stretch as well. You don't really "find" them.

I don't? Do I sit still and they find me? No, I'm given the coordinates and I use my GPSr to find them.

 

They are not "the language of location."

I don't even know what you're trying to say here. This is the tag line for www.Groundspeak.com, not for caches, LPCs or micros.

 

None of them have interesting containers.

To you.

 

Most don't have permission.

If they don't have adequate permission they shouldn't have been approved. I'll let you take it up with the reviewers what "adequate" is.

 

They are the least enjoyed type of cache.

By you. However, they're found by so many people, and hidden all across the country, that they're definitely enjoyed by a LOT of people. How does this show that they're not a cache?

[+The Jester]

Hmmm... LPC:

 

"hidding place" - check;

"ammo" - not allowed;

"food" - not allowed;

"treasure" - generally no, but sometimes yes;

"etc" - check.

 

Sound like a cache to me!

 

A hiding place for treasures or etc. in our case.

Most do not have treasures or etc.

Ergo.....

What's the log book/sheet if not an "etc"? Although, with the many "trade/don't trade" threads it seems most, without kids, don't trade or put trading at low priority. But the log book is very key, so it might even be raised to "treasure". Ergo ... it's a cache.

[Mushtang]

Reading this thread reminds me of a conversation I had with a family member many moons ago. He is a civil law attorney. We were discussing the infamouse case where some lady spilled coffee on herself, then sued Mc D's for millions, cuz she wasn't bright enough to figure out that freshly served coffee might be hot. I asked him what kind of lawyer would take such a case, and his answer resonates through me whenever I read this thread;

"Some people will defend anything"

Your attorney relative should read the case. It wasn't about the coffee being hot. It was about a certain company over-heating coffee beyond a reasonable and expected standard. We expect coffee to be hot. There are food service standards, in fact, for coffee serving temperatures. This company despite repeated warnings continued to serve coffee so hot as to physically burn consumers. That act, knowingly serving something so hot that it was held to be beyond a reasonable and expected standard, was what won the lady her lawsuit.

 

"Lady wins lawsuit because her coffee was hot" make s cute headline but doesn't tell the story.

 

Consider the average LPC:

(yeah, I know there are exceptions)

The location is lame.

The hide technique is lame.

The container, (film canister), is lame.

 

Some people truly will defend anything.

I wonder why that is....

It's because we like them, how hard is that to comprehend?

Not hard to comprehend. Hard to understand. See the difference?

Yes, I see the difference. For some reason some people fail to understand that a lot of people enjoy them, therefore we want to defend them against those that don't want them allowed anymore. It's a simple concept to me, but some people just can't understand it.

 

Fortunately, understanding it isn't a requirement. It's not necessary that anyone is able to understand why I defend LPCs. Only that those that are arguing against LPCs, in a thread about whether or not to ban them, aren't the only ones being heard.

Edited March 2, 2007 by Mushtang

[+The Jester]

Most caches wouldn't pass the Wow test, not just LPCs. An ammo can in the woods covered with sticks is neat the first time you see it, but fairly easy to spot after a while. Most of the ammo cans I've found lately were in the backs of parks and didn't really wow me. (and the virtuals had an issue because they had no log book, not because they had no trade items) Are you suggesting that all caches need to pass the Wow test, or just LPCs?

I keep hearing this come up again and again. So many people like to say (to defend lame cache hides), "an ammo box with sticks as cover is just as lame as any lamp post cache!" Are you kidding? You even mention where you are finding this ammo box.. in a city park. Big difference between city park and PARKing lot

 

Also, would you rather the ammo can NOT be covered in sticks? Not a very bright idea. It's got to be covered with something and sticks are what lay around some parks. Oh, it didn't WOW you, right. Well, was it the park that was lame or the fact that you could see the cache from several feet away? I personally have not been underwhelmed by a cache that brought me to a neat place. This is regardless of whether the cache was easy to find or not. The suspense of finding the cache is now replaced with the suspense of "what will I find.. perhaps a travel bug or geocoin? What did others have to write in the log book?" Honestly, the suspense is dead or dying by the time you round the curve into Wally World. "Third lamp post from the store, middle row.. yawn.. next."

As a side note: not all LPC's are in parking lots. The last one I found was on trail thru a wooded section next to a college, obviously lit at night.

Instead of talking about the vast majority of them let's talk about the rare exceptions since those more accurately characterize an LPC.

But if you ban or limit LPC's you also ban/limit those exceptions. If you try to limit it to "LPC's in parking lots" you'll get all the "but it's not IN the parking lot, it's in the dirt next to the parking lot" type of excuses - and the reviewers have a hard enough time as it is.

[+TrailGators]

I will never understand how finding an LPC can be so enjoyable to some people. I guess some people would also enjoy reading a phonebook or watching paint dry. Not me.

[+TrailGators]

Consider the average LPC:

(yeah, I know there are exceptions)

The location is lame.

The hide technique is lame.

The container, (film canister), is lame.

 

Some people truly will defend anything.

 

lame /leɪm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[leym]

adjective, lam·er, lam·est, verb, lamed, lam·ing, noun

–adjective

1. crippled or physically disabled, esp. in the foot or leg so as to limp or walk with difficulty.

2. impaired or disabled through defect or injury: a lame arm.

3. weak; inadequate; unsatisfactory; clumsy: a lame excuse.

4. Slang. out of touch with modern fads or trends; unsophisticated.

Lame is probably not the best word. But that means that I can't say that LPCs "suck" because we don't draw them into our mouths by producing a partial vacuum.....

 

[Mushtang]

I will never understand how finding an LPC can be so enjoyable to some people. I guess some people would also enjoy reading a phonebook or watching paint dry. Not me.

I don't enjoy reading phonebooks or watching paint dry either. So I don't do those things.

 

When I'm looking for something to read and I come across a phonebook, I skip it. And I don't complain that the phonebook exists, because I know other people might want it someday.

 

The existance of phonebooks and drying paint doesn't bother me though, and I certainly wouldn't post over and over how much I didn't like them in a thread asking if they should be banned.

[Clan Riffster]

Your attorney relative should read the case. It wasn't about the coffee being hot. It was about a certain company over-heating coffee beyond a reasonable and expected standard.

I read the trial transcripts during a civil liability class. Not only are they a matter of public record, they also offer an interesting insight into the Liberal mindset. This same lady had been purchasing coffee from that same Mc'D's for quite some time. The cups she purchased prior to her spill were the same temperature as the one she dumped in her lap. She knew exactly how hot it was, but her ambulance chaser lawyer decided she should claim ignorance in a bid for more $$$. It seemed to work. Our society is dedicated to financing stupidity. Where else can you cause grievous injury to yourself through some dim witted act and come away with a couple million bucks? Had I sat on that jury, she would not have received a dime.

(OK, end off topic rant...)

 

Some of us enjoy being able to go out and find a CACHE when we're travelling and only have a few minutes. Or maybe I won't have a rental car and I'm only able to find a CACHE if it's within walking distance.

So, why does having a cache close enough to walk to limit you to LPC's? I have yet to encounter an LPC where an actually creative hide wouldn't have worked.

 

lame /leɪm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[leym]

adjective, lam·er, lam·est, verb, lamed, lam·ing, noun

–adjective

1. crippled or physically disabled, esp. in the foot or leg so as to limp or walk with difficulty.

2. impaired or disabled through defect or injury: a lame arm.

3. weak; inadequate; unsatisfactory; clumsy: a lame excuse.

4. Slang. out of touch with modern fads or trends; unsophisticated.

5. Uninspired. Demonstrative of a lack of imagination so incredible as to defy reason. The personification of boredom and insipidness (is that even a word?)

 

I had to add one from the Riffster Clan family dictionary.

 

they're found by so many people, and hidden all across the country, that they're definitely enjoyed by a LOT of people.

Certainly there are folks who yearn for the least creative things in life. As geocaching continues it's drift toward the mainstream, we'll likely encounter more of these folks. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? I suspect we have differing opinions on this. Fortunately, for those utterly incapable of even the slightest hint of imagination, they have you to defend them. Sounds like a "win-win" for both of you. They get to continue placing uninspired hides, and you get to bravely defend their hides.

Edited March 2, 2007 by Clan Riffster

[Sadie]

I will never understand how finding an LPC can be so enjoyable to some people. I guess some people would also enjoy reading a phonebook or watching paint dry. Not me.

Some of us enjoy the LPC as part of the outing. Running with the pack has a feeling all it's own and although we may enjoy others more, the LPCs are good also.

 

One undertone I have seen through this entire thread is "LPC's suck because I like something else better". While others are saying "other things are great and LPC's are OK". So, just becasue some folks have a different point of view doesn't mean the others are wrong. Although the specific words are not there, it is still heard.

 

In other words, we see "good, better, best" instead of "bad, OK, and good". Many folks seem to miss this.

 

I find this post belittleing to folks that don't feel the same way that you do. Take off the blinders, you can see more that way.

 

</rant>

[+TrailGators]

I will never understand how finding an LPC can be so enjoyable to some people. I guess some people would also enjoy reading a phonebook or watching paint dry. Not me.

Some of us enjoy the LPC as part of the outing. Running with the pack has a feeling all it's own and although we may enjoy others more, the LPCs are good also.

 

One undertone I have seen through this entire thread is "LPC's suck because I like something else better". While others are saying "other things are great and LPC's are OK". So, just becasue some folks have a different point of view doesn't mean the others are wrong. Although the specific words are not there, it is still heard.

 

In other words, we see "good, better, best" instead of "bad, OK, and good". Many folks seem to miss this.

 

I find this post belittleing to folks that don't feel the same way that you do. Take off the blinders, you can see more that way.

 

</rant>

 

I could care less if you want to find them. The problem is that there is no easy way to filter them out. I can go to the library and pick out any book I want. Geocacaching is not like that. People keep hiding phonebooks all over the place it gets annoying because I don't find out until I've driven up them it over and over again.

[Mushtang]

Certainly there are folks who yearn for the least creative things in life. As geocaching continues it's drift toward the mainstream, we'll likely encounter more of these folks. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? I suspect we have differing opinions on this. Fortunately, for those utterly incapable of even the slightest hint of imagination, they have you to defend them. Sounds like a "win-win" for both of you. They get to continue placing uninspired hides, and you get to bravely defend their hides.

I love the way you like to make me look like if I'm not against LPCs, or "lame hides", then that must be the only thing I do like. Not only that, but that's what I prefer.

 

I agree with Sadie. Stop belittleing people and try to see that folks can appreciate things that you don't like.

[Sadie]

I will never understand how finding an LPC can be so enjoyable to some people. I guess some people would also enjoy reading a phonebook or watching paint dry. Not me.

Some of us enjoy the LPC as part of the outing. Running with the pack has a feeling all it's own and although we may enjoy others more, the LPCs are good also.

 

One undertone I have seen through this entire thread is "LPC's suck because I like something else better". While others are saying "other things are great and LPC's are OK". So, just becasue some folks have a different point of view doesn't mean the others are wrong. Although the specific words are not there, it is still heard.

 

In other words, we see "good, better, best" instead of "bad, OK, and good". Many folks seem to miss this.

 

I find this post belittleing to folks that don't feel the same way that you do. Take off the blinders, you can see more that way.

 

</rant>

 

I could care less if you want to find them. The problem is that there is no easy way to filter them out. I can go to the library and pick out any book I want. Geocacaching is not like that. People keep hiding phonebooks all over the place it gets annoying because I don't find out until I've driven up them it over and over again.

 

Although I agree that perhaps more can be done, the library doesn't do these things either. So, you must do the same type of things you would do in a library. It may not be exactly prallel, but it's close...

If you like the author (cacher's placements) then seek books (caches) from that person.

If you don't like short stories (micro's), then filter those out. Generally, they will be the same author (cacher)

Use your ignore list.

If you don't know the author (cacher) then you have to sample thier work before you can determine (pass judgement on) thier style. If they write the same romance novel (LPC) that others due, you can act accordingly.

 

If the library does have a method of being able to accuratly forecast your specific tastes, then please fill me in. (Netflix has some fair methods as does Amazon, but Yahoo shopping is a bit weak in this area).

[+TrailGators]

I will never understand how finding an LPC can be so enjoyable to some people. I guess some people would also enjoy reading a phonebook or watching paint dry. Not me.

Some of us enjoy the LPC as part of the outing. Running with the pack has a feeling all it's own and although we may enjoy others more, the LPCs are good also.

 

One undertone I have seen through this entire thread is "LPC's suck because I like something else better". While others are saying "other things are great and LPC's are OK". So, just becasue some folks have a different point of view doesn't mean the others are wrong. Although the specific words are not there, it is still heard.

 

In other words, we see "good, better, best" instead of "bad, OK, and good". Many folks seem to miss this.

 

I find this post belittleing to folks that don't feel the same way that you do. Take off the blinders, you can see more that way.

 

</rant>

 

I could care less if you want to find them. The problem is that there is no easy way to filter them out. I can go to the library and pick out any book I want. Geocacaching is not like that. People keep hiding phonebooks all over the place it gets annoying because I don't find out until I've driven up them it over and over again.

 

Although I agree that perhaps more can be done, the library doesn't do these things either. So, you must do the same type of things you would do in a library. It may not be exactly prallel, but it's close...

If you like the author (cacher's placements) then seek books (caches) from that person.

If you don't like short stories (micro's), then filter those out. Generally, they will be the same author (cacher)

Use your ignore list.

If you don't know the author (cacher) then you have to sample thier work before you can determine (pass judgement on) thier style. If they write the same romance novel (LPC) that others due, you can act accordingly.

If the library does have a method of being able to accuratly forecast your specific tastes, then please fill me in. (Netflix has some fair methods as does Amazon, but Yahoo shopping is a bit weak in this area).

I have to filter out all low difficulty/terrain micros because of LPCs. We can't filter by hider and I wish we could! We can open up one hider's profile and ignore all 100 of their lousy micros one by one. I like the Netflix idea.

[Mushtang]

I could care less if you want to find them. The problem is that there is no easy way to filter them out.

So THAT's the problem?

 

Earlier up the page the problem was that they didn't contain swag, and therefore weren't caches.

 

Above that the problem was that they couldn't pass a Wow test.

 

Every time someone gives the anti-LPC crowd a way around their problem, or shows that their problem isn't just for LPCs, they change their story and claim that The Problem is something else.

[Mushtang]

I have to filter out all low difficulty/terrain micros because of LPCs. We can't filter by hider and I wish we could!

Wouldn't this leave you with mostly the kinds of hides you want to look for? If you also filtered out all micros then I'd guess you'd drive up to a LOT fewer caches that you didn't want to find (as opposed to how you seem to do it now).

 

That looks like a great way to avoid the ones you hate. You might also avoid a few you would have liked, and a few you hate will still get through, but think of how much happier you'll be with the increased percentage of quality hides?

[Sadie]

OK, try this approach. It will help clear the LPC's off the "not found" list near home.

 

Set up a PQ for micro's only and load up the GPS.

Grab a designated driver and a bottle of <insert favorite brand of booze here> and a pen (no swag required)

Play 80's music. (or disco if so inclined)

Find a cache, take a swig. Repeat

 

Bring friends.

[+tozainamboku]

I was going to post something about Anna Nicole Smith here. Wait, I already did

Lets get this back on topic. Who here is not the father of Anna Nicole Smith's baby?

OH NO! Not Anna Nicole AGAIN! Who gives a flying %&$@?

Not only did that make TrailGators scream, it also got a warning from Keystone about posting off-topic. But I posted it to make a point - there is no accounting for taste.

 

Obviously many people like to pick up the tabloids at the supermarket check-out. Perhaps they also like to find the LPC hidden in the parking lot while they are there. Oh well, these are lame, ignorant, boring people. They shouldn't care if we ban tabloids or LPCs. They can find something else to do with their sorry lives. Us intellegent, smart, and exciting people who read the Wall Street Journal and prefer caches hidden in beautiful, interesting places can't be bothered with all the trash that those tabloid reading, LPC lovers leave around. I realize I may be walking on thin ice here, by Godwin, perhaps we should have a eugenics program to sterilize the people who say they like LPCs so they don't reproduce. That ought to improve my geocaching experience.

Edited March 2, 2007 by tozainamboku

[+TrailGators]

I could care less if you want to find them. The problem is that there is no easy way to filter them out.

So THAT's the problem?

 

Earlier up the page the problem was that they didn't contain swag, and therefore weren't caches.

 

Above that the problem was that they couldn't pass a Wow test.

 

Every time someone gives the anti-LPC crowd a way around their problem, or shows that their problem isn't just for LPCs, they change their story and claim that The Problem is something else.

 

I never changed my story, it just has many facets to it. I have always stated that it's hard to filter out LPCs. I also elaborated on many reasons why LPCs are the least liked cache in hopes that some would actually listen and the momentum would decrease.

 

I listened learned and adapted and changed my hides over the years. I used to hide micros but I do not hide them any more because it became obvious in the logs that the larger containers with swag are more widely appreciated. So I changed and now everyone seems to be enjoying my recent caches a lot more. So I think it's great when people listen and learn to hide caches that a larger majority of people will enjoy more.

Edited March 2, 2007 by TrailGators

[Clan Riffster]

One undertone I have seen through this entire thread is "LPC's suck because I like something else better". While others are saying "other things are great and LPC's are OK".

My personal favorite undertone is the one proclaiming "All lame caches are lame". Like myself, it's a simple concept. I've found lame caches that would be defined as large, regular, small and micro, and yes, even the poor, mis-fortunate, much aggrieved LPC, on occasion. Just because a cache is an LPC doesn't automatically make it lame, but the odds are not in its favor.

 

It is my belief that any activity focused around creativity can be hurt by lameness, even geocaching. I believe that lame caches, (of any size), are bad for the game. Developing some complex filtering process does nothing for my belief system, as those caches which I believe to be bad for the game will still exist.

 

I love the way you like to make me look like if I'm not against LPCs, or "lame hides", then that must be the only thing I do like.

Brother, at the minimum, I'm several hundred miles away from you. As such, I can't make you look like anything. If you perceive such a negative viewpoint about yourself, that negativity was there long before I started playing this game. My comments were directed toward your actions, which is the defense of lameness, and were not an indicator of what you might like or dislike. I believe you mentioned some time back that you actually enjoyed challenging caches. Having no other facts to contradict your statement, I'm forced to accept it at face value and believe that you do like interesting, thoughtful hides. Why would you think otherwise?

 

Earlier up the page the problem was that they didn't contain swag, and therefore weren't caches.

 

Above that the problem was that they couldn't pass a Wow test.

 

Every time someone gives the anti-LPC crowd a way around their problem, or shows that their problem isn't just for LPCs, they change their story and claim that The Problem is something else.

Maybe that's just proof that there are more than one reason not to lovingly embrace LPC's?

 

Obviously many people like to pick up the tabloids at the supermarket check-out. Perhaps they also like to find the LPC hidden in the parking lot while they are there.

An interesting analogy. Reminds me of a poll which the Oviedo Herald conducted several years ago regarding local lunch time eateries. As I recall, the first question was something to the effect of, "If money and time were not an issue, what restaurant would you pick as your favorite place to grab lunch?" They listed several places around Oviedo, including Outback Steakhouse, Hooters, Olive Garden, Bennigans, etc, and included the 7-11 convenience store. Outback won hands down. Then they asked the same people where they actually ate lunch for the past week, and 7-11 beat all the "good" restaurants combined. While trivial at best, this poll taught me that just because folks do something a lot, doesn't necessarily mean they love doing it. Reminds me of the whole, "LPC's must be great cuz so many people hunt them" argument.

[+TrailGators]

Obviously many people like to pick up the tabloids at the supermarket check-out. Perhaps they also like to find the LPC hidden in the parking lot while they are there.

An interesting analogy. Reminds me of a poll which the Oviedo Herald conducted several years ago regarding local lunch time eateries. As I recall, the first question was something to the effect of, "If money and time were not an issue, what restaurant would you pick as your favorite place to grab lunch?" They listed several places around Oviedo, including Outback Steakhouse, Hooters, Olive Garden, Bennigans, etc, and included the 7-11 convenience store. Outback won hands down. Then they asked the same people where they actually ate lunch for the past week, and 7-11 beat all the "good" restaurants combined. While trivial at best, this poll taught me that just because folks do something a lot, doesn't necessarily mean they love doing it. Reminds me of the whole, "LPC's must be great cuz so many people hunt them" argument.

Excellent point.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Some of the arguments here have the ring of reformed drunks or smokers... or newly saved Christians... so proud of their reformation that it's now their 'duty' to reform others!

 

'I used to like LPCs, but now I don't, and neither should you' is my reading of several poster's attitudes.

 

Shades of my good buddy SouthDeltan, who once loved numbers micros and is now dedicated, loudly, to their destruction!

 

Sinner's repent while yet there is time!

 

'I have seen the light!' you say? Great. Proud for ya. I like it here in the dark.

 

The problem is proselysation. Once you've seen your light and announced it publicly, you're done.

 

We hear it, we're impressed, or not, end of story!

 

The problem comes when you see Your light and make it your defining cause.

 

It becomes obsessively important to convert others to your thinking.

 

A kind of panic sets in and you become convinced that micros/LPCs/global warming/the devil/cancer or all of the above are ruining your/the/everyone's game/the world... you start in with 'see my light, convert to my way or be damned! We must save the game from people like you!'

 

That's unfortunately what's happening in this thread.

 

Why is that a problem? Why should we care what agenda you promote, how loudly, how often or to whom?

 

Because you promote it in a public forum, with many newbies who may not know that you are on a mission.

 

To keep reason, flexibility, goodness. rightiousness and our way of playing alive we have no choice but respond and rebut.

 

Those of you pounding this platform surely know this. Any decent debater knows that the attacker occupies the high ground and right or wrong defenders have their work cut out for them!

 

Now we have a nice fence built, with 'Do it your way' on one side and 'You must cache my way' on the other.

 

Forget debate, the competition for hearts and minds is on!

 

This leads to a vicious circle, a downward spiral with no good end.

 

Division. Name-calling. Insults. 'I'm Right'. 'No, You're Wrong!'. Some of the strangest and most bizarre attempts at justifying each side's beliefs and practices. 'Facts' and 'statistics' pulled from thin air.

 

The word 'most'. I love that one! Employed by both sides, we use 'most' to assert that the majority agree with and support our assertions... they're just not speaking up so we have to do it for them!

 

'They'... Another great debate word! We're smart, we know 'them', know what 'they' think and what 'they' want! Just don't ask us who 'they' are, that's not polite!

 

'The majority'... . Gotta love that supporting phrase! The majority of whom? How do you know this? But man doesn't it sound persuasive? Authoritative. We are empowered by our belief that our thinking reflects that of 'the majority'.

 

My challenge: One post to make your case!

 

You folks who don't like LPCs state your case, one time.

 

Us Staunch Defenders Of Everything Lame will state ours, once.

 

Then close the thread.

 

No proselitysing, no attempt to convert, to argue - everyone's had their say and it's time to go geocaching!