PIPE BOMB CACHE?

[+Go JayBee]

Got a frantic phonecall from a close cacher freind this evening concerning THIS CACHE ... hope the link works.

 

 

I would really like to hear your response to this...this kind of cache placement cannot be tolerated...

[+ReadyOrNot]

Got a frantic phonecall from a close cacher freind this evening concerning THIS CACHE ... hope the link works.

 

 

I would really like to hear your response to this...this kind of cache placement cannot be tolerated...

 

I hope the Portland Police file some kind of charges. This is becoming far too common and something needs to be done to stop it before geocaching as a whole gets a bad name.

[+wiseye]

This seriuosly stupid stuff, not what we need or want in Geocaching.

[+Ambrosia]

I'm assuming this was made of metal, because people were talking about rust. A pipe bomb looks like many caches that I've found that are made of pvc pipe. So, the only difference seems to be that someone thought that metal would be ok to do. Just a different material.

 

I'm just speculating. Perhaps this person just wants to cause a lot of distress. But I don't know. And neither does anyone reading this thread. I would hope that you remember that before judging someone too harshly and posting malicious posts here or on the cache page.

[+Ol' Dirty Cacher]

I'm with ya, Ambrosia. *hug*

That dosent mean to say I agree with the persons methods but I am right there with you on judging folk.

It is hard to call it if your not in that persons shoes.

It was not very funny, I'm sure, for those that found it, though.

I will say that it is awfully perculiar that they only have one hide and no finds, though.

Hopefully we dont suffer repercusions due to more careless behavior.

I definitly dont want anyone to get hurt.

OK

Bye

Edited February 6, 2007 by Ol' Dirty Cacher

[+Spoo]

Here is another:

 

Police criticize scavenger hunt

 

Tuesday, February 6, 2007

 

PORTSMOUTH, N.H. (AP) - Police aren't fans of a pastime involving a high tech navigation device.

 

The department is sending out a message against GPS scavenger hunts after two reports of suspicious packages turned out to be prizes left for game participants.

 

The most recent incident was Sunday, when Portsmouth police were called to a supermarket to examine a suspicious package stuck to an outdoor electrical panel. The metallic case duct taped to the panel turned out to be a prize for players in a GPS scavenger hunt.

 

In November, police responded to a similar call when someone spotted a suspicious package stuck to the base of the Piscataqua River bridge.

 

Police say attaching suspicious items to private property, bridges, electrical panels causes public alarm and can be punished as trespassing, disorderly conduct and worse if a building is forced to evacuate.

[+briansnat]

The logs say the cache was made to look like a bomb. Was it just a cache in a pipe, which I think is a bad idea, but not uncommon, or was it deliberately made to look like a bomb with wires, etc....?

[+DeRock & The Psychic Cacher]

Hey OP, how about some details. I find it hard to get very worked up without details .

 

Deane

AKA: DeRock & the Psychic Cacher - Grattan MI

[+briansnat]

Hey OP, how about some details. I find it hard to get very worked up without details .

 

Deane

AKA: DeRock & the Psychic Cacher - Grattan MI

 

Yeah, I have my torch and kerosene out. I need to know if I should light it.

[+sbell111]

Looks like much ado about (practically) nothing.

[+flask]

Hey OP, how about some details. I find it hard to get very worked up without details .

 

Deane

AKA: DeRock & the Psychic Cacher - Grattan MI

 

does that mean you'll get worked up if we can get you details? do they have to be certain kinds of details, or can we just pour on whatever we have handy?

 

huh? i want to see some worked-up-ness. i want flames. i'm a fun person.

[+Snoogans]

When I read about this in the banned in NH thread, my only suspicion was that the placer had no finds in their profile. Other than that, I'd need more details. A picture would be nice.

 

 

My torch is as yet unlit, and my pitchfork is still on it's hook in the garage.

[+Super_Nate]

I think the logs online could have been handled a little more maturely....sure the cache that was placed was very wrong, but I don't think we had to go the way of personal attacks. Just contact Groundspeak and call it good.

 

Just my two cents....Don't bash me for it.

[+nekom]

Sounds like somebody thought they were being cute. Most people don't find that kind of thing amusing though. Law enforcement certainly doesn't have a good chuckle over it.

[+sbell111]

I think the logs online could have been handled a little more maturely....sure the cache that was placed was very wrong, but I don't think we had to go the way of personal attacks. Just contact Groundspeak and call it good.

I honestly haven't read anything to suggest that the cache was 'very wrong'. Clearly it should not have used a container that leaked, but many people assume that pipes wouldn't leak. I wish someone would explain how the cache was supposed to 'look like a bomb' other than because it was a pipe.

 

While I certainly agree that (if they were waterproof) owners of 'pipe cache' should use care to ensure that they are unlikely to be found by muggles. From the cache page, it would appear that this cache was hidden well enough and in an area unlikely to be identified by terrorists for mayhem.

 

Honestly, I don't understand why people who have almost no real information are getting all lathered up .

[+Googling Hrpty Hrrs]

Let me get this straight.

 

It was a cacher who called the police to report a pipe bomb? The previous "found" logs should have at least alleviated some concerns about the hiders intention to blow up a tree or unsuspecting cachers. I understand a muggle calling it in out of ignorance, but I think a cacher could have handled it a little differently.

 

Certainly though, pipes of any kind make bad containers.

[+sbell111]

... Certainly though, pipes of any kind make bad containers.

They leak pretty badly. I suppose that they would do better if one end was securely sealed and it was hung upside down, but you rarely find one like that.

 

I have found a few awesome PVC caches that were 'barked'. They looked like just another downed limb in the woods.

[+Blue Power Ranger]

I'm looking for a news article in the Portland area papers but can't find anything. I too will wait for details.

[+Googling Hrpty Hrrs]

Notice the cacher still just HAD to log a smiley for this horrible cache.

 

I figured they would want to protest this irresponsible cache placement by refusing to log a find. But alas, the lure of the smiley is too much.

 

Did they sign the log before or after they called the bomb squad?

Edited February 6, 2007 by Googling Hrpty Hrrs

[+Renegade Knight]

Since anything can be reported at any time as suspicious and will be taken seriously I can't and won't get worked up over a cache. However Jayel57 sure does get worked up and doesn't show well when they are all in a slather. Oh and they didn't find the cache.

 

So I'm ready to run the first name caller in the logs out on a rail, but I'll reserve judgement on the cache owner. Heck Go JayBee needs to rethink things a bit in their log. I expect a bit more from them.

[+Renegade Knight]

Lecture Mode:

 

Since caches and bombs are made with the materials people have one hand. They tend to look alike to anyone who is in the business.

 

However to the public there are stereo types of what a bomb looks like and those are the containers that should be avoided.

 

Did the cacher do anything wrong? Probably not. They placed a cache in hopes of peole finding it and having a good time. They did not intend harm. Until it's proven they did mean to create a scare or used the cache as a hoax there is no need for pitchforks and torches.

 

Wisdom is less common than brains and perhaps the cache owner didn't display a lot of it with the cache container. Neither did a couple of ranters.

[+Renegade Knight]

...I hope the Portland Police file some kind of charges. This is becoming far too common and something needs to be done to stop it before geocaching as a whole gets a bad name.

 

Did you want to volunteer to be first in line being charged for one of your caches?

 

Here are some handy charges that could be made to stick.

 

Placing Debris on State Property.

Creating Public Disorder.

Creating a panic.

Contributing to the deliquency of a minor (setting a bad example after all).

Trespassing.

Littering.

Loitering.

I'm not an attorney so I probably only have about 1/20th of the total things they can throw at you.

 

Because OTHERS choose to whine about using bomb squads they have hired to respond to such things you can bank on them soon wanting to charge people for responces they cause. Meanwhile most people have ZERO control over the responce they cause. If I call in a threat. I've done something intensionally. If I forget my backpack and it's full of electronics (and it is) and it's blown up. I've done nothing intensional but can cause more disruption than the real thing.

 

You should be defending all people who cause no harm from "The Man" while trying to educate them not to invoke the wrath of "The Man" with cache placements that are more likely to generate a responce of some kind.

 

As an aside I have now learned that a "Code Red" at the school means there is a threat of an armed person at the school looking to cause harm. My kids educated me after I discussed our code red from the other day. They also let me know they had another one the next day. Apparenly threats are easy to come by.

[+StarBrand]

Pipe cache containers=bad idea.

 

Other than that, no real issue here except that reaction to it has been expanded beyond all reasonable limits.

[+Arndtwe]

it's people like this that that make me so mad , especially through some family frendly game. eventually this game is going to banned becuase of people like this.

Edited February 6, 2007 by Arndtwe

[Clan Riffster]

Having been in law enforcement since '82, I've had to deal with hysterical citizens on many occasions who just knew they had found a bomb.

"No Ma'am, that's not a bomb. That's a paper bucket filled with chicken bones."

"No Sir, that's not a bomb. That's an old car battery"

"No Ma'am, that's not a bomb. That's a sprinkler head"

"No Sir, that's not a bomb. That's a drain pipe from a septic system"

Etc, etc, etc.

 

So far we haven't heard from anyone who has actually seen this cache, so I have no way of determining if it "looked like a bomb", (for whatever that's worth), or if this is just another case of hysteria. I'll have to reserve judgment until the facts are in.

[+Go JayBee]

Allright...here is a picture of the CACHE?

 

Looks very real to me...

 

 

And in Jayel57's defense: she is a retired Oregon State Police Lieutenant and has seen the results of the real thing. She did not realize that the cache was previously found. She only had the safety of the public in mind when the call was made to 911.

 

 

As far as my note on the cache page goes: I won't apologize for anything written. WE as a community need to police ourselves. Sometimes harsh words are needed. I'm tired of hearing excuses for people like these.

[+briansnat]

Allright...here is a picture of the CACHE?

 

Looks very real to me...

 

 

And in Jayel57's defense: she is a retired Oregon State Police Lieutenant and has seen the results of the real thing. She did not realize that the cache was previously found. She only had the safety of the public in mind when the call was made to 911.

 

 

As far as my note on the cache page goes: I won't apologize for anything written. WE as a community need to police ourselves. Sometimes harsh words are needed. I'm tired of hearing excuses for people like these.

 

Looks like a geocache to me, especially if I were looking for a geocache and found that near the posted coordinates.

[+sbell111]

Looks like a geocache to me, especially if I were looking for a geocache and found that near the posted coordinates.

agreed.

As far as my note on the cache page goes: I won't apologize for anything written.

If you don't see anything wrong with what you posted to the cache page, I can't help you. I can only assume that you never find fault in your actions.

[+Bill & Tammy]

Wow, mbgasmd really got taken to the woodshed by the reviewer in his archival notification! If the hide was intended to look like a pipe bomb than it shouldn't be tolerated as it was very irresponsible to say the least. But, I am still not convinced it was nothing more than an ill considered attempt at making a cache container. Many of the early caches as pointed out were PVC tubes which are not dissimilar.

 

I've seen alot of reactionary responses in the forums lately related to similiar topics, hoping cool heads will prevail.

[+sbell111]

Wow, mbgasmd really got taken to the woodshed by the reviewer in his archival notification! If the hide was intended to look like a pipe bomb than it shouldn't be tolerated as it was very irresponsible to say the least. But, I am still not convinced it was nothing more than an ill considered attempt at making a cache container. Many of the early caches as pointed out were PVC tubes which are not dissimilar.

 

I've seen alot of reactionary responses in the forums lately related to similiar topics, hoping cool heads will prevail.

That wasn't the reviewer. It was the OP going off half-cocked.

 

The reviewer merely posted 'The cache is no longer there.'

[+Bill & Tammy]

Wow, mbgasmd really got taken to the woodshed by the reviewer in his archival notification! If the hide was intended to look like a pipe bomb than it shouldn't be tolerated as it was very irresponsible to say the least. But, I am still not convinced it was nothing more than an ill considered attempt at making a cache container. Many of the early caches as pointed out were PVC tubes which are not dissimilar.

 

I've seen alot of reactionary responses in the forums lately related to similiar topics, hoping cool heads will prevail.

That wasn't the reviewer. It was the OP going off half-cocked.

 

The reviewer merely posted 'The cache is no longer there.'

 

Thanks, I stand corrected.

[+mudsneaker]

its one thing to take the cache, contact the owner that you have it and give a brutally honest reason why its not appropriate. Its a whole different thing to call the cops and make a public scene out of it.

 

this situation should have been kept in the house so to speak, and not made public. An chance for one of our own to correct it and not involve outsiders.

 

[+Kabuthunk]

Quick added note to this topic. Several people have asked for specifics on what it looks like, but noone's posted the picture. JayBee posted a picture of it on Feb 5th, so here it is:

 

 

If the site doesn't allow hotlinking of images from geocaching.com to Groundspeak.com or something, you can just go to http://img.geocaching.com/cache/log/f4f7dc...b86c897468f.jpg

[+ODragon]

Quick added note to this topic. Several people have asked for specifics on what it looks like, but noone's posted the picture. JayBee posted a picture of it on Feb 5th, so here it is:

 

JayBee posted it as a link in this thread.

[+gh patriot]

So when you say, "That cache was 'The bomb,' ", it doesn't necessarily mean that it was a "good" cache.

 

[+kayak-cowboy]

Just looking at the picture, I would have thought it to be a bomb also. I do not see any identifier as a geocache. On the side of the container there appears to be a handle that is wired in place. Just because the coordinates took me to this location doesn't necessarily mean that this is in fact the cache hide.

[+Kit Fox]

Go Jaybee,

 

 

I think you lost the respect of others with this silly line.

 

As a respected member of the GeoCaching Community, I think you should just leave now before you get into more trouble.

[+Snoogans]

Just looking at the picture, I would have thought it to be a bomb also. I do not see any identifier as a geocache. On the side of the container there appears to be a handle that is wired in place. Just because the coordinates took me to this location doesn't necessarily mean that this is in fact the cache hide.

 

 

 

I'm not going to speculate that the cache was intended to look like a bomb, but I can understand the confusion.

 

 

Since I'm not local, the only context I have other than the close-up picture is the satellite image which shows a wooded area well away from nearby buildings.

 

 

I train every few years with the HPD bomb squad and given my training, if my GPS took me to that item, I'd assume it was the cache I was looking for. However, the looks of it would give me pause and if my wife to be had just taken out a huge life insurance policy on me, I might even suspect foul play. I also might be tempted to put the log into one of the large M&M mini's containers I carry and just disappear that cache. Then I'd go home and discretely email the hider and ask where I could meet to give it back to them.

 

 

Folks, bombers want to take out as many people as they can. They commonly place their devices in HIGH TRAFFIC areas. Not in the woods.

 

 

If a cache ever blows up and kills someone. I'll bet you any amount you want to lose that the person who constructed the device would be looking to kill a specific person or persons KNOWN to them. It won't be random and the bomber would be caught.

[+StarBrand]

Maybe an email/call/contact with the cache owner should have been in order long before calling out the police. I hope no charges or fines are brought forth here as the reaction to this seemed way out of proportion especially considering that the seeker was looking for a cache at these very coordinates. Could have been handled easily without costing the taxpayers any money whatsoever.

 

Yes a bad container.

 

Yes a poorly handled incident.

[+Harriet the Spy]

Is anybody else confused about the posted picture?? How did Go JayBee get the picture to post when he never found the cache? And if Jayel57 was so frightened by the sight of the cache why did he stick around, dig out his camera and take such a good picture of the offensive cache then send it to his buddy?? The picture posted looks like its PVC while the logs says the cache is rusty which implies metal??

Edited February 6, 2007 by Harriet the Spy

[+gof1]

The picture shows what is definitely iron pipe.

A very bad choice for a cache container.

If I had found it I probably would have swapped it out and contacted the owner.

If I wasn't a geocacher looking for a cache I would have definitely been concerned.

Iron pipe, wire, tape, looks bad. I would have called 911 had I not been looking for it.

 

No bet Snoogans.

[+Snoogans]

No bet Snoogans.

 

 

Smart man and excellent post.

[+Criminal]

So the cache looks like a bomb, woop-dee-doo. They're just playing the game their way.

 

[+pghlooking]

I just posted this in another thread (probably to be closed soon anyhow) but it appears this would be so much more on topic than over there. How's this for a TB in todays age of bomb scares?

Yea this was a bright idea. But at least they stayed away from their first idea to send out to our caches in the form of a TB...

And THIS TB is allowed on GC. What kind of a black eye would this cause the game? I know common sense should come into play, but apparently not everyone has it.

 

Criminal has a point, they are just playing it their way. It doesn't affect us does it?

[+gof1]

I took Criminals remark as sarcasm.

It does effect us in ways that multiple event logs and normal "micro spew" and all the other crap that line is usually meant to defend can't. These fake bombs, be they cache or bug, are much more likely to result in charges and banning. A cachers inflated numbers don't even come close to this.

[+pghlooking]

I took Criminals remark as sarcasm.

It does effect us in ways that multiple event logs and normal "micro spew" and all the other crap that line is usually meant to defend can't. These fake bombs, be they cache or bug, are much more likely to result in charges and banning. A cachers inflated numbers don't even come close to this.

PSSST....mine were meant that way as well.

[+gof1]

I figured that, just as I hit "add reply".

I guess I just not up to speed today.

I'll blame it on brain frost from the record cold today.

[+Snoogans]

Criminal has a point, they are just playing it their way. It doesn't affect us does it?

 

 

I had just copied your post on the other thread to cross post that picture here.

 

 

I'm not even going to comment on Criminal's post......

 

 

So, that right there would be a 911 call for me. I look for 4 things when I have to run an X-ray machine on occasion. A timing device/trigger, wires, a detonator, and an organic mass of explosive.

 

 

The pic of the cache in question had none of these things that I could see without the advantage of an x-ray. There ARE ways to make a pipe bomb that would look like the cache in question, but in the examples I know of, the components would most likely have to be assembled on the spot and in one example (mercury switch) would be extremely dangerous if not impossible to place in the position shown.

 

 

I don't blame the bomb squad for the detonation of that cache, but if you polled each one present, I bet notta one expected it to be a real device and there would have been some real surprised looks if it had been real. No doubt if it had been, the investigation would have started with the local teenagers who lived nearby.

[+Snoogans]

I took Criminals remark as sarcasm.

It does effect us in ways that multiple event logs and normal "micro spew" and all the other crap that line is usually meant to defend can't. These fake bombs, be they cache or bug, are much more likely to result in charges and banning. A cachers inflated numbers don't even come close to this.

PSSST....mine were meant that way as well.

 

 

psssst me three.

[+pghlooking]

So, that right there would be a 911 call for me. I look for 4 things when I have to run an X-ray machine on occasion. A timing device/trigger, wires, a detonator, and an organic mass of explosive.

The biggest surprise of all was this TB was at Groundspeak HQ! Guess they don't have a secruity check point there.