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GEOCACHING BANNED IN NH


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You knew you gave up some of your freedoms when you let Bush create your homeland security super-duper ultra mega terrorist fighting ninja squad. Now whenever anyone yells terrorism the fit hits the shan. The US is as near to being a Police State as you can be without calling it a police state. I'm frankly astounded that he's only getting a disorderly conduct charge. With stupid caches like that being made, it's only a matter of time before some <<removed by moderator>> mysteriously disappears after creating that really nifty cache right in the middle of LAX. Placing a camo box in a dumpster isn't necessarily going to get you put in the clink, but placing one on private property in a public place where there is lots of people is not a clever or responsible place to put a cache, and you can't be suprised that the screwball who does get's in crap for doing it. The bottom line is that you have to realize that most people are paranoid now (for whatever reason... media, government, etc) about terrorist attacks. If you aren't sensitive to that, and insist on behaving irresponsibly, you're gonna get in some hot water.

 

 

OH NO! President Bush has created a secret sect of the Homeland Security to put an end to Geocaching as we know it. We're all going to some foreign prison to be interrogated. Big Brother is now Geocaching. BE AFRAID BE VERY AFRAID.

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You knew you gave up some of your freedoms when you let Bush create your homeland security super-duper ultra mega terrorist fighting ninja squad. Now whenever anyone yells terrorism the fit hits the shan. The US is as near to being a Police State as you can be without calling it a police state. I'm frankly astounded that he's only getting a disorderly conduct charge. With stupid caches like that being made, it's only a matter of time before some <<removed by moderator>> mysteriously disappears after creating that really nifty cache right in the middle of LAX. Placing a camo box in a dumpster isn't necessarily going to get you put in the clink, but placing one on private property in a public place where there is lots of people is not a clever or responsible place to put a cache, and you can't be suprised that the screwball who does get's in crap for doing it. The bottom line is that you have to realize that most people are paranoid now (for whatever reason... media, government, etc) about terrorist attacks. If you aren't sensitive to that, and insist on behaving irresponsibly, you're gonna get in some hot water.

quote]

 

 

OH NO! President Bush has created a secret sect of the Homeland Security to put an end to Geocaching as we know it. We're all going to some foreign prison to be interrogated. Big Brother is now Geocaching. BE AFRAID BE VERY AFRAID.

 

 

Dang, how did I miss that post from the FIRST page and above one of my own posts? I missed a prime opportunity to go off on a tangent about Ninjas. :P

 

 

Ninjas are kewl. :huh:

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Big Brother is now Geocaching. BE AFRAID BE VERY AFRAID.

 

Fear not, it seems he actually lost interest fairly quickly...

 

Pretty funny. Once I was really bored, and I looked to see how many people joined geocaching.com on the same day as me, in 2003. There was about 250, and probably 75% of the accounts were never really used (just like Big Brother's).

 

Edit: I had something else but never mind.

Edited by TheWhiteUrkel
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This just in.....

 

I DNF'd a cache last night and thought nothing of it. Just found out that the thing was blown up by the bomb squad today (was just published yesterday). Apparently the thing was made to look like a pipe bomb. Was placed by a user with 1 hide, no finds (the one hide being this piece of crap).

 

Here's the cache for those interested

 

That's all we need is geocaching getting a bad name here in Portland also. What are we to do to stop this?

 

 

Well, since the thread about that cache is locked and this thread was derailed by it's own title, I gotta make comment here.

 

 

In light of Go Jay Bee's final word on the matter, if I was one of the more judgemental posters on that thread, my face would feel a bit eggy this morning.

 

Cooler heads prevail. There's always more to the story. In this case, I doubt all the parties involved would care to dive in here and share the first hand point of view after what's been said. I'll save judgement for another day.

Too bad MM locked that one. That rollercoaster woulda crested another hill. Wheeee! <_<

 

This particular semi-useless thread should be locked next to prevent it being dredged up later. Could a mod please add Not Really to the title of this thread? As in:

 

GEOCACHING BANNED IN NH

Ummm NOT REALLY!!!!

Edited by Snoogans
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I just read somewhere that geocaching has been banned in New Hampshire.

It was just a matter of time really, The whole CITO concept has been against the law in White Mountain National forest for some time now:

 

"If a person is caught raking the beaches, picking up litter, hauling away trash, building a bench for the park, or many other kind things without a permit, he/she may be fined $150 for ''maintaining the national forest without a permit''.

 

Source:dumblaws.com

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This just in.....

 

I DNF'd a cache last night and thought nothing of it. Just found out that the thing was blown up by the bomb squad today (was just published yesterday). Apparently the thing was made to look like a pipe bomb. Was placed by a user with 1 hide, no finds (the one hide being this piece of crap).

 

Here's the cache for those interested

 

That's all we need is geocaching getting a bad name here in Portland also. What are we to do to stop this?

 

 

Well, since the thread about that cache is locked and this thread was derailed by it's own title, I gotta make comment here.

 

 

In light of Go Jay Bee's final word on the matter, if I was one of the more judgemental posters on that thread, my face would feel a bit eggy this morning.

 

Cooler heads prevail. There's always more to the story. In this case, I doubt all the parties involved would care to dive in here and share the first hand point of view after what's been said. I'll save judgement for another day.

Too bad MM locked that one. That rollercoaster woulda crested another hill. Wheeee! :rolleyes:

 

This particular semi-useless thread should be locked next to prevent it being dredged up later. Could a mod please add Not Really to the title of this thread? As in:

 

GEOCACHING BANNED IN NH

Ummm NOT REALLY!!!!

Not dredging just researching. Hope to come up with some results soon.

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I took a buddy of mine caching yesterday. Now I have been caching for a while and I believe that if you hide it then I will find it...regardless of where it is, or it's size. I must admit that I was a little embarrassed to find a micro with him. It was in a Sagebrush parking lot. His first impression was, "why would anyone hide a cache here". Man, that is a good question. Do we hide caches just for the sake of hiding caches, or are we still trying to communicate through location. I think that I have lifted my last skirt.

 

Nuwati

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I'm surprised so many parking lot micros get published. Starbucks, Walmart, Cracker Barrel... these are all private property.

 

I think the rules should be changes to disallow these types of caches unless explicit permission is obtained from the establishments (which I doubt they would). I agree though, seems like the guidelines should already disallow these types of caches.

That is stupid! :rolleyes:

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How would one prove experience? Some arbitrary number of finds? Time as a member? What?

 

To answer your question: time as a member. Why does everyone take everything to an extreme? I was simply suggesting that a brand new cacher has no experience at all. He can read the guidelines but IMHO the guidelines become clearer after you meet other cachers or visit the forums and ask questions. If some new cacher misinterprets a guideline it is black eye for all of us. So what is the harm of having a new cacher wait a few months to hide his/her first cache? It wouldn't have bothered me one bit if that was the policy when I joined.

 

 

Not going to any extremes here. Just testing your logic from an if it ain't broke, don't fix it perspective..... :rolleyes:

 

 

So you say time as a member......BUT, then you say "after you meet other cachers or visit the forums and ask questions," which is a bit more involved than just time wouldn't you say?

 

 

Suppose they don't care to use the forums and meet other cachers or even log their finds. What then? Is it still just time?

 

 

I can see this point because a LOT of geocachers are secretive as a CATFISHERMAN! And if you know any catfishermen...they are a secretive lot!

 

Time alone would not fill the bill for whether a geocacher had the savvy to choose choice concealment of caches! :huh:

 

Chuckwagon

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As a newbie, but relatively active (66 finds since Christmas) I would agree that quite a few caches are placed in stupid locations. I've found one near a childrens playground, which raises a lot of suspicions from parents (who is the pervert). Why bother with lamp and flagpost skirts - its been done (I've found 5 already). I don't enjoy alot of stealth, I would rather look for a cleverly camo-ed cache in a secluded area of a park where I can take my time. I don't like snooping around in the bushes next to a restaurant. The attraction of caching is the exploration of new and scenic areas.

 

It certainly seems to me that the focus of geocaching is leaning towards numbers than quality. My most enjoyable finds were in areas new to me and involved some hiking. More creativity please. I am planning my own caches - hopefully they will be challenging, but they will be in safe locations for families and be in places that will not raise suspicions.

 

Love the plate, people of NH have been grumpy ever since the old man in the mountain fell down (just kidding)

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...I've found one near a childrens playground, which raises a lot of suspicions from parents (who is the pervert)....

 

Oh my. A cache in some of the little open space some towns have! More adults around playground would reduce the risk of the occasional perv being a problem.

 

A lot of suspicion is raised by a lot of people for a lot of stupid reasons. None of it would change the fact that geocaching is harmless.

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...I've found one near a childrens playground, which raises a lot of suspicions from parents (who is the pervert)....

 

Oh my. A cache in some of the little open space some towns have! More adults around playground would reduce the risk of the occasional perv being a problem.

 

A lot of suspicion is raised by a lot of people for a lot of stupid reasons. None of it would change the fact that geocaching is harmless.

 

Unfortunately, it is a sad reality of the world we live in that a single man apparently "loitering" around a playground or school is a huge red flag as a perv. It also a sad fact that our so-called political leaders will take the course of least resistance and ban an activity if a few parents were to complain "what about the children". My point was a little common sense never hurts. Don't put a cache where frequent people looking for it would cause a problem.

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For all the folks that have been saying that placing stupid micros doesn't hurt anyone and it's just how THEY play the game. Here's the wakeup call and this is where geocaching is going if it doesn't get under control. It's not the well hidden caches in the woods that cause these problems. It's the stupid micros hidden under lampposts that get the bomb squad called out.

 

Time to wake up and make some needed changes to the game.

 

Unfortunately it has hit other more then Micro's in other places

 

I refer to a Florence OR TB motel that was in place for quite awhile and in an Ammo Box

 

read the logs

 

GCXNH7

 

I thinks its silly for "us" to be so freaking paranoid about someone "suspicious". Do you really think that the terrorist will be blowing up meaningless "lamposts" or in the case or river house TB hotel a LOG On a Beach?

 

I think Its time America gets back to normal and quit running scared all the time.

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Can someone please highlight where it says Geocaching is BANNED in NH. That's the part I was looking for. I read it twice and I didn't see it.

 

Otherwise this is just another bad placement story no matter the SIZE of the container.

I don't think it was banned. I think they basically gave out this stern warning:

 

"It is imperative for those playing these games to understand that this reckless behavior will be prosecuted under the N.H. disorderly conduct statutes and possibly the criminal trespass statues. Placing suspicious items on private property, bridges, electrical panels to businesses etc. creates a condition that causes public alarm. This conduct can be felonious if it causes the evacuation of a building."

 

Will people pay attention to this? I guess we'll find out...

 

Did anyone " with information concerning these local games" call the police ??

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It's clear that most folk here dont have a clue about how the legal system works.

The police or any other public entity don't have authority to just ban anything, they can merely enforce existing laws. That said they can't do anything specifically about geocaching in general. As indicated in the police press release (which BTW is not a journalistic piece of work) they can only address this specific incident and press charges (or threaten to - as they are currently doing) if they beleive a crime (existing law has to have been broken) has been comitted. The press release is full of the usual crap - police posturing and threats about public panic - playing a dangerous game - Oh please! Currently they are asking the cache owner to come forward for a chat - and he's a fool if he does without a lawyer - and if he does go forward with a lawyer they will decide there is nothing to chat about. Then it becomes "charge him now or he's walking" and it looks like a dubious case at best from the publically avaliable information. Now if the city council decides to draft legislation and enact a law specifically regarding Geocaching then the rules may change and a public discussion would have to take place (they can't enact laws behind closed doors) as to the nature and scope of the law. What is more concerning is the possibility that police authorities could ask GC.com to provide information as to who he actually is (more than just an email address or forum handle) from ther payment records (if premium member) or other info they have gathered. I hope they have done their research and have legal advice - and I for one would like to see their policy on this if one exists.

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It's clear that most folk here dont have a clue about how the legal system works.

The police or any other public entity don't have authority to just ban anything, they can merely enforce existing laws. That said they can't do anything specifically about geocaching in general. As indicated in the police press release (which BTW is not a journalistic piece of work) they can only address this specific incident and press charges (or threaten to - as they are currently doing) if they beleive a crime (existing law has to have been broken) has been comitted. The press release is full of the usual crap - police posturing and threats about public panic - playing a dangerous game - Oh please! Currently they are asking the cache owner to come forward for a chat - and he's a fool if he does without a lawyer - and if he does go forward with a lawyer they will decide there is nothing to chat about. Then it becomes "charge him now or he's walking" and it looks like a dubious case at best from the publically avaliable information. Now if the city council decides to draft legislation and enact a law specifically regarding Geocaching then the rules may change and a public discussion would have to take place (they can't enact laws behind closed doors) as to the nature and scope of the law. What is more concerning is the possibility that police authorities could ask GC.com to provide information as to who he actually is (more than just an email address or forum handle) from ther payment records (if premium member) or other info they have gathered. I hope they have done their research and have legal advice - and I for one would like to see their policy on this if one exists.

 

Good post. One catch 22. While laws tend to be passed in a session that the public can attend. The business of creating the law, fleshing it out, figuring out if there are enough votes, and the disucssion of the law etc. can and often does take place behind closed doors. In my old home town one heck of a lot of town business was decided in the basement of the local bar during a breakfast meeting. In my new home town...I don't even know that much.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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I'm surprised so many parking lot micros get published. Starbucks, Walmart, Cracker Barrel... these are all private property.

 

I think the rules should be changes to disallow these types of caches unless explicit permission is obtained from the establishments (which I doubt they would). I agree though, seems like the guidelines should already disallow these types of caches.

 

Okay, you know that whole saying about what happens when you ASSUME?

 

All caches placed at Cracker Barrel restaurants have been pre-approved at the Corporate Level by the Head of Advertising as long as they are placed within the guidelines set forth by GC.com

 

Corporate Contact:

Nick Simulia

Cracker Barrel Corporate Headquarters

Lebanon, TN

800-333-9566, option 3, ext. 2504

 

It is still recommended that cachers notify and ask permission from the local management, informing them of the approval from corporate.

 

I FULLY agree that caches on private property need to have permission. In reality almost any urban cache is on private property. The GC.com guidelines do require permission for these caches, but unfortunately it is just ASSUMED that permission has been obtained. It's an honor system. Why would I want to send someone to a place where they don't have permission to be there??? Think about it folks. And lay off the people placing caches at Cracker Barrels, they have permission.

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Bill & Tammy's comment that they "think on the whole as a hobby we are less of a threat to the public safety than the majority of outdoor activities" is so true.

 

I know people who participate in a worldwide mid-distance runner's organization called the Hash House Harriers (Vancouver club's website is Vancouver Hash House Harriers), which basically has an advance person laying out white flour in little piles every 50 yards or so along a route of several miles. About a year ago, some bozo member laid out a route through the food court area of a Vancouver downtown office center. At some point the same day, the HAZMAT squad got called in, as "white powder" was reported to the police. Several blocks were cordoned off. :huh: This event made the evening news, and cost a lot of people significant inconvenience.

The upshot - the Hashers in Vancouver are seeking to use alternate materials to mark their path.

 

For me, I prefer a geocache to be hidden in a non-urban location - but if it's in the city, it should be in a quiet corner of the park, away from muggles who can get easily alarmed. The stealth factor was once exciting to me, but now I see it as a downer. Who wants to loiter in private walkways of hospital areas, feeling up and down the non-exposed backside of a ventilation pipe? You just end up feeling like a felon all the while.

And yes - parking lot caches (we've got 'em in Vancouver too) should be banned altogether, even if permission is supposedly obtained.

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Because they totally suck.

 

I spent the better part of this afternoon next to a BARBED WIRE fence behind a Sam's Club looking for a stage of a multi. I dug snow out from around a telephone pole that had a naked electrical ground. I even scoured a nearby sewer grate.

 

Unfun.

 

I actually don't agree that they should be banned, though I'd love a "This cache sucks" filter for my pocket queries.

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Because they totally suck.

 

I spent the better part of this afternoon next to a BARBED WIRE fence behind a Sam's Club looking for a stage of a multi. I dug snow out from around a telephone pole that had a naked electrical ground. I even scoured a nearby sewer grate.

 

When in reality you should have turned around and just left. When you drove around to the back of the Sam's Club was that not enough of a hint of what kind of caching experience you were getting into? I can sympathize with you to some extent. We run certain caches through a "screening" process to try and determine if they are going to be like the type of cache you listed. Unfortunately, you can't always tell. But if you make the decision to search anyway once you get there, don't be mad at anyone but yourself.

 

Something you could do is comment about the location of the cache (as constructively as possible) so that maybe you can help out the next cacher who feels the same way you do.

 

A well placed cache with permission from the property has its place in this sport. However too many cachers are doing these caches and assuming that they can hide their own without getting permission. Maybe if there were certain measures taken when you submit you first cache hide then we could help avoid this problem. Say maybe the first cache you hide the reviewer requires written permission from the property owner or something. I don't know, just throwing an idea out there.

 

AZBliss02

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Because they totally suck.

 

I spent the better part of this afternoon next to a BARBED WIRE fence behind a Sam's Club looking for a stage of a multi. I dug snow out from around a telephone pole that had a naked electrical ground. I even scoured a nearby sewer grate.

 

Unfun....

 

Cool. I know folks looking for historical barbed ware. As development tramples all the old farmsteads it's getting harder to find. A rule of thumb. When you stop having fun. Stop that.

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Because they totally suck.

 

I spent the better part of this afternoon next to a BARBED WIRE fence behind a Sam's Club looking for a stage of a multi. I dug snow out from around a telephone pole that had a naked electrical ground. I even scoured a nearby sewer grate.

 

Unfun.

 

I actually don't agree that they should be banned, though I'd love a "This cache sucks" filter for my pocket queries.

Where you and I seem to differ is that I employ discretion and judgement not only when I review a cache listing page prior to traveling to a cache site, but I also employ an even greater level of discretion, judgment and commonsense as I near a cache hide site. If a cache appears to have been placed on or near a commercial business building, or on private residential or commercial property, or behind a Sam's Club, or on posted property, or just somewhere that I do not like, I decide to pass and immediately abandon the search. In other words, I am not at all compulsive about needing to find a cache just because it is a cache. As an example -- which I am sure that I have related in the past on these forums -- on a recent trip to Michigan, I decided to pass on nine out of the 17 caches which my wife Sue had preloaded onto my GPSr for me because things simply did not feel right when my friend Taj and I arrived at the actual cache hide site for those nine caches in question. Period.

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I totally agree. I should have. But it was the 2nd of 6 in a multi-placed (Don't know the term. 6 listed caches, each contains a clue to the final, 7th cache) and I had already found the first one so was willing, to a point, to stretch my bounds. I do wish I hadn't as I wasted time and got frustrated. If it was a single, simple cache I would have driven away when I found the graffitti on the abandoned taco bell drive through speaker.

 

My misguided attempt to find it dispite my reservations makes the cache no less lame.

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This just in.....

 

I DNF'd a cache last night and thought nothing of it. Just found out that the thing was blown up by the bomb squad today (was just published yesterday). Apparently the thing was made to look like a pipe bomb. Was placed by a user with 1 hide, no finds (the one hide being this piece of crap).

 

Here's the cache for those interested

 

That's all we need is geocaching getting a bad name here in Portland also. What are we to do to stop this?

 

Someone should punch that jacka** in the spine!

 

It states on that IDIOTS profile he's an Anesthesiologist... I think he's used to much of it on himself... or maybe not enough... Idiot is not actually a good enough word to describe him. Lock him up and throw away the key. :huh:

 

Question?? I know there alot of caches out there and they cant all be checked by Groundspeak for approval but I think there should be stricter guidelines to follow when placing a cache... (no i'm not saying take the fun out of geocaching but to keep MORON's like this one from placing dangerous looking caches like this one things need to change a lil. :huh:

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....Question?? I know there alot of caches out there and they cant all be checked by Groundspeak for approval but I think there should be stricter guidelines to follow when placing a cache... (no i'm not saying take the fun out of geocaching but to keep MORON's like this one from placing dangerous looking caches like this one things need to change a lil. :huh:

 

I'm sorry but that cache didn't look dangerouse. It looked like half the crap in my basment, complete with a bad paint job. It's easy to call someone a moron but really, we are cachers, not bombers. I have no freaking clue what bombs looks like. I've never made one, never seen one, never phoned one in. The only example I've seen looked like a briefcase.

 

Dangerouse looking is subjective.

 

If you want stricter guidelines propose some and lets run them up flagpole and see how well it waves.

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It states on that IDIOTS profile he's an Anesthesiologist... I think he's used to much of it on himself... or maybe not enough... Idiot is not actually a good enough word to describe him. Lock him up and throw away the key. :huh:

 

I have my own theory on who placed this cache and this person is not and was not an anesthesiologist.

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It states on that IDIOTS profile he's an Anesthesiologist... I think he's used to much of it on himself... or maybe not enough... Idiot is not actually a good enough word to describe him. Lock him up and throw away the key. :huh:

 

I have my own theory on who placed this cache and this person is not and was not an anesthesiologist.

 

Actually, I took it upon myself to email him and told him that everyone makes mistakes and that I hope it doesn't cause him to quit geocaching. I'm sure he's been getting nothing but nasty emails from everyone. He emailed me back and thanked me for my offer. I don't usually take the middle ground in anything, but this issue is one where everyone has made mistakes and we need to stop bashing everyone. He is an anesthesiologist here in Portland and made an honest mistake. Let's get off his case and Jayel57's case as well. I also was one that piled on in the beginning, but neither of these folks deserve it.

 

anesthesiologist.jpg

 

What's your theory Dubbin? Doesn't involve aliens does it? :huh:

Edited by ReadyOrNot
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What does any of this have to do with geocaching in New Hampshire?

 

The Portsmouth story is over, the cache is gone, apologies have been made. Since there have been few (if any) on topic posts in here in the last couple of days, can we please shut this one down? It would be nice not to have to see this ugly headline sitting up near the top of the geocaching forum every day.

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... but civil liberties are at a low point. those of us who love civil liberties have good cause to be alarmed.

 

At a low point ... hmmm ... we had legal slavery in this country at one time. Folks who remember domestic security measures taken by the US during World War 2 would also disagree strongly that we are at a low point. Sadly, civil liberties are probably at a high point now, compared to future levels. Technology is a sword with two sharp edges, and it cuts civil liberties with the back edge.

 

what does follow is better work on cache placement and awareness of local climate. whether or not i like it, i live in today's more suspicious climate. i have to think about how my caching behavior might change caches in general. i have to think about how i will respond to the police the next time they speak to me.

 

i recommend being polite.

 

I can agree with you here. We have a lot of geocaches out there that are potential problems. You can ask geocachers to use common sense and discretion, but that will only go so far. Geocachers are people, and many people lack common sense and discretion. The only source of control over this potential problem is geocaching.com. But there goes another set of "civil liberties", like the right to place a cache that can be mistaken for a bomb in a public place.

 

FWIW, CharlieP

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Civil liberties, and most everything else mentioned in the past couple pages, has nothing to do with caches being banned in NH.

 

I will agree that pepople need a sounding board to discuss these poltical issues, but this isn't the place, please take it to OffTopic.

 

And since caches are not banned in NH, and folks cannot let this thread die the slow death, I am forced to close it.

 

Thanks for playing!

MM

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