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Non Authorized Anthus Firefighter Coins


Anthus

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BTW,

 

Last night, I also informed Bryan from Groundspeak that there were un-numbered/non-trackable Signal coins on Bjorn74's trading list. He is aware of this situation.

 

...Anthus

Well if Groundspeak was unaware of the practice it would serve them right to have Groundspeak end their contract to mint the Signal coins with them.

:blink:

 

Who said anthing about Groundspeak ending their contract with them? Why would you say such a thing if you don't have facts on such a statement. Untill Bryan says otherwise how can you and why would you put words in his/their mouth. This seems to be only speculation on your part....sorry that just struck me as passing on uninformed information.

 

I’ve been watching this since last night, first thanks to Eartha for GREAT, SUPER, STUPINDIOUS moderating!

 

I haven’t clue why and when it turned into an Atlanta Gal bashing thread…that was in my opinion wrong and derailed the OP topic very quickly.

 

Seems to me that one of the fellers at the store in question did his best to explain the situation and mention that it would be fixed/addressed in the morning. Well it just now morning so maybe the community could be nice enough to give um a chance to fix community perceived mistakes.

 

To me the store provides a greatly needed/wanted service or so many folks would not take that route in getting their coins produced.

 

I for one have used Rusty on several projects and WILL continue to use him, and plan on dropping another project in his lap this morning…hehehe he does not know this yet.

I am also working with the store to do my “5th anniversary coin”…very exciting.

 

I am of the opinion in the end Anthus will get answers to all the questions he/she has, and any perceived wrongs will be addressed and handled in a manor that will make Anthus happy in the end.

 

Pepper

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Has anybody mentioned to you where they got them from to start with?

 

It seems that this would be the best place to start to avoid any speculation.

 

It's not speculation to ask if any specific sources were mentioned. :blink: If the store is selling/trading mine I would hope to be informed. If it came from overseas through an ebay trade, etc. I would take it that means it might have come from the factory. Being in a professional advertising and promotion department, I often ask for finished samples of previously manufactured items to judge quality. Production companies and Factories often send me several examples from previous runs kept for just that use. I was under the impression that the store had a few of mine and would be doing the same. I would like to be offered the chance to buy or trade for them first though if they're not going to be used to that end.

 

Has anybody mentioned to you where they got them from to start with?

 

Did you realize that the same people are trying to trade one of your coins that is un-numbered?

 

I am not aware, but I'll look into it. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

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I am sure Mike is correct, when the trader awakes he will surely realize his error, he should contact all the people listed, as well as all the trades all ready made, return the coins to their rightful owners and make it all right.

 

At my request last night Moop Along contacted Bjorn74 last night and asked him to remove my unauthorized Anthus Firefighter from his list. Bjorn74 promptly did that. Looks like he is just now removing the rest of them from his list.

 

I urge the collecting community not to trade for these unauthorized coins. This type trading is unethical, poor business practice, and devalues geocoins!

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BTW,

 

Last night, I also informed Bryan from Groundspeak that there were un-numbered/non-trackable Signal coins on Bjorn74's trading list. He is aware of this situation.

 

...Anthus

Well if Groundspeak was unaware of the practice it would serve them right to have Groundspeak end their contract to mint the Signal coins with them.

:blink:

 

Who said anthing about Groundspeak ending their contract with them? Why would you say such a thing if you don't have facts on such a statement. Untill Bryan says otherwise how can you and why would you put words in his/their mouth. This seems to be only speculation on your part....sorry that just struck me as passing on uninformed information.

 

Pepper

 

I am not putting words in anyone mouth...I said it would serve them (The Geocoin Store) right if Groundspeak chose to end the Signal coin contract with them. It merely is a statement. I never implied that Groundspeak was taking any action in this nor did I imply that Groundspeak did not know the extra (floater) coins existed. They may know all about it and be very happy. Never in any part of my above statement did I say that any person was taking any action.

 

Please read my statement careful before you put words in my mouth.

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At my request last night Moop Along contacted Bjorn74 last night and asked him to remove my unauthorized Anthus Firefighter from his list. Bjorn74 promptly did that. Looks like he is just now removing the rest of them from his list.

 

I urge the collecting community not to trade for these unauthorized coins. This type trading is unethical, poor business practice, and devalues geocoins!

Yes, I just looked and his list no longer has any "untrackable" or "unnumbered" coins in it. It's down 62 coins in total for his traders. On the Keeping list however, I never looked at the number so I don't know if there were any listed in there or not.

 

It's a good first step at least.

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You mentioned that you have some proofs. Do you have any proof coins of mine in your collection? I obviously didn't know these existed until just 3 days ago, so I didn't do any trading or selling of them. I'm not accusing you, just want to know if you have any of mine or any of the other Geocoinstore proofs.

 

Thanks....Anthus

 

No, none are your designs.

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BTW,

 

Last night, I also informed Bryan from Groundspeak that there were un-numbered/non-trackable Signal coins on Bjorn74's trading list. He is aware of this situation.

 

...Anthus

Well if Groundspeak was unaware of the practice it would serve them right to have Groundspeak end their contract to mint the Signal coins with them.

:blink:

 

Who said anthing about Groundspeak ending their contract with them? Why would you say such a thing if you don't have facts on such a statement. Untill Bryan says otherwise how can you and why would you put words in his/their mouth. This seems to be only speculation on your part....sorry that just struck me as passing on uninformed information.

 

Pepper

 

I am not putting words in anyone mouth...I said it would serve them (The Geocoin Store) right if Groundspeak chose to end the Signal coin contract with them. It merely is a statement. I never implied that Groundspeak was taking any action in this nor did I imply that Groundspeak did not know the extra (floater) coins existed. They may know all about it and be very happy. Never in any part of my above statement did I say that any person was taking any action.

 

Please read my statement careful before you put words in my mouth.

 

My bad...I stand corrected, thanks for opening my eyes...not near enough coffee for this old gal this morning. I'm sorry y'all no hard feeling ok?

I just totally disagreed with your opinion saying “it would serve them right to have Groundspeak end their contract to mint the Signal coins with them”. I am of the opinion it would not serve them right…what’s right about that…a perceived mistake was made they/he is working to correct the situation.

 

Pepper

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You mentioned that you have some proofs. Do you have any proof coins of mine in your collection? I obviously didn't know these existed until just 3 days ago, so I didn't do any trading or selling of them. I'm not accusing you, just want to know if you have any of mine or any of the other Geocoinstore proofs.

 

Thanks....Anthus

 

No, none are your designs.

 

Thank you.

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BTW,

 

Last night, I also informed Bryan from Groundspeak that there were un-numbered/non-trackable Signal coins on Bjorn74's trading list. He is aware of this situation.

 

...Anthus

Well if Groundspeak was unaware of the practice it would serve them right to have Groundspeak end their contract to mint the Signal coins with them.

;)

 

Who said anthing about Groundspeak ending their contract with them? Why would you say such a thing if you don't have facts on such a statement. Untill Bryan says otherwise how can you and why would you put words in his/their mouth. This seems to be only speculation on your part....sorry that just struck me as passing on uninformed information.

 

Pepper

 

I am not putting words in anyone mouth...I said it would serve them (The Geocoin Store) right if Groundspeak chose to end the Signal coin contract with them. It merely is a statement. I never implied that Groundspeak was taking any action in this nor did I imply that Groundspeak did not know the extra (floater) coins existed. They may know all about it and be very happy. Never in any part of my above statement did I say that any person was taking any action.

 

Please read my statement careful before you put words in my mouth.

 

My bad...I stand corrected, thanks for opening my eyes...not near enough coffee for this old gal this morning. I'm sorry y'all no hard feeling ok?

I just totally disagreed with your opinion saying “it would serve them right to have Groundspeak end their contract to mint the Signal coins with them”. I am of the opinion it would not serve them right…what’s right about that…a perceived mistake was made they/he is working to correct the situation.

 

Pepper

 

Its all good....we have all had those lack of caffeine mornings! :blink::wub: I probably should have been a bit less crabby/harsh in my statements also. :D

 

I also understand your opinion and respect that. I do hope that this unfortunate situation is resolved in a manner that is acceptable to all the parties involved. It really is a lesson learned for all of the geocoin community.

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Wow!

 

My wife came home with new puppy last night, so I never turned my computer on...see what I missed?!? :blink:

 

After reading this thread from start to finish this morning, it appears that things have been resolved...or are well on their way to being resolved.

 

While I don't agree with what was done, I honestly don't believe it was done maliciously. (I hope I spelled that right!) It appears they have corrected their error in judgement, and that is a commendable step.

 

If I remember correctly, even one of the trading sites used to have, or maybe still has a picture with a bunch of coins in a pile. Memory says that those were all sample coins, and there were a few ruffled feathers at the time that pic was posted.

 

The reason I bring that up, is that it would seem we have all known about samples for a long time now, so that isn't an issue. Trading those samples is a different story all together, and I think we have some resolution on that now.

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At my request last night Moop Along contacted Bjorn74 last night and asked him to remove my unauthorized Anthus Firefighter from his list. Bjorn74 promptly did that. Looks like he is just now removing the rest of them from his list.

 

I urge the collecting community not to trade for these unauthorized coins. This type trading is unethical, poor business practice, and devalues geocoins!

Yes, I just looked and his list no longer has any "untrackable" or "unnumbered" coins in it. It's down 62 coins in total for his traders. On the Keeping list however, I never looked at the number so I don't know if there were any listed in there or not.

 

It's a good first step at least.

 

The person did not have any of them listed on thier "Keeping" list at all. They were all on the "Trade" list, but have been removed now.

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I will jump into this as well. I have coins out there that are unauthorized as well. I don't want to out the collector that has one on their list but they know who they are. The same collector scammed me for an ammo box that has no tracking number on it. This is getting rediculous. These are not VERY RARE coins as these collectors put it these are ILLEGAL coins. The people that have had their personal coins made had NO IDEA that these coins existed NOR did they know that they would ever make it out into public view.

Duane

NOLEFAN9399

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Just a few things I noticed while reading through this thread.

 

 

No...having "floater" coins is not standard practice for most geocoin brokers. It is standard to make a few display samples, but not the so called "floater" coins. The display samples are not used for anything but display. Our (CoinsAndPins) standard practice is to recycle the metal of any extra or defective geocoins that will not be used for strictly display.

 

This seems like the right thing to do. Melt them down and reuse the metal. Not sell them for extra profit.

 

This is also untrue for most geocoin brokers. We (CoinsAndPins) consider any coin designs we re-sell as still owned by the client. If we wanted to make more, then we ask for permission from the client before proceeding, and offer additional compensation.

Again this seems the ethical thing to do.

 

Anthus has already contacted us RE: this and an explanation of possible sources was provided.

 

I'll post a comment here as well. As we explained by email, there are two possible sources for this "blank" coin.

 

First is the factory. We were using a different source at the time of that production and changed largely due to quality issues, including some coins which were not engraved or some which are also engraved with "typos". Yeah - they are out there.

 

Second (and far more likley) it is our practice for each of the three partners of the Geocoin Club to receive 5 un-numbered coins of every coin we produce for their portfolio/use. I don't think this is out of line. Especially on a project which we footed the bill for. We simply ask the factory for them not to engrave ours. I will not engage in a debate here about it, it's simply our practice and there is nothing sinister about it. If this is the source, there are no more than 15 in the world like it. We assign no value to a coin that was "tacked on" the end of a full production run and has no code. Especially in the absence of a "pedigree" for the coin. Obviously others feel the same, so it's moot as far as I can see. The original samples were provided to the OP (as a courtesy I might add - we don't generally obtain the samples) and a pedigree can be traced for those by the OP and we will also certify those are the original mint samples.

 

I think this was explained well to the OP in email. This thread and the resulting speculation makes it sound like many were made and distributed like this. And possibly that we even produce them and sold them somehow for profit. That's not true at all.

 

We concur with Damenace and Fluttershy and all those of this opinion.

 

We are unique in that we design and produce our own coins as well as those for others. As graphic designers we have a great deal of respect for the ownership of artwork. We try to always get our samples and our customer's samples engraved with 'sharkz' so there is no doubt that this is not a trackable coin (the mint occasionally takes poetic license and engraves them with PC1234 even when we specify 'sharkz'!) :blink:

 

We always send our clients their sample coins and keep a copy here also for our reference. We refer back to previous coins we made (including samples which never made it to final production), when we want to see what a certain finish or colour looked like. They are invaluable in the design process. We have on occasion given away some of our own sample coins of our own designs (eg: Canada Micro, engraved with 'sharkz'). We also donated 3 sample BC geocoins to a fundraiser for a fellow cacher. Otherwise, our customer's sample coins are not ours to give away, rather they are here so we can produce better coins in the future! As Whitebear can attest, when he comes by the studio, we often drag out the box of samples to assist him in choosing finishes for his coins :wub:.

 

Hopefully this can all come to a satisfactory conclusion and the coin owners can feel that this issue is resolved to their satisfaction. ;)

 

There's a paradox to some of these statements. :D

 

You're not as unique as you might think :o We design and produce our own coins as well as others'. And as you confirm - there's nothing unusual going on with the creation of these samples. I think that's clearly established.

 

Whether the samples are engraved or not, IMO, does not erase the fact that they exist. And because they exist, some feel those coins are inherently more valuable. So - I think we can accept as fact that every coin maker has sample coins and that some perceive those coins to have higher value.

 

What is different is the trading. It seemed innocent when it started and, I suspect, will not continue once the owner of the trading list wakes up and discovers what an outcry it's generated. I'm certain Bjorn never anticipated this kind of reaction or he never would have posted them in the first place. Over time, for a successful company, sample coins are like tribbles. They just keep multiplying. So, without malicious intent, some were listed for trade to "thin the herd". Poor decision? Yeah. At the time it seemed harmless. I even thought I'd do the same. In retrospect - not a great idea to trade them. A practice I hope and expect will be suspended as soon as the list owner awakens in the morning to my email requests.

 

If you make samples at all - your really can't condemn us for the same. The trading was bad judgment, but I think that will be corrected at the earliest opportunity.

 

This seems confusing to me. In a previous post you speak of a factory that you used. You also speak of Partners. Partners are not always exclusive in a production environment. Partners can still prodcue for other companies as well. This would infer that you don't entirely produce your own coins but rather work with partners that actually mint the coin. I don't know the details of your partnership, it just seemed a little odd based on the previous post where you were stating that perhaps the previous factory may have kept some coins. If these partners are truly producing coins just for you then you should have the final say as to what happens with the 5 display coins provided to each.

 

Why wouldn't they just melt them down and reuse the metal? Not sell them for extra profit. It just seems a little underhanded to me to sell these without consent. Granted it may have seemed harmless at the time however it does effect the trading value of the original/intended coin.

 

I see an un-numbered MS State coin on the list, we would also like to get our un numbered coins.

I have personally had no problems with the geocoinstore, and Mike has always been upfront in his dealings with me, I cannot however say the same about personalgeocoins, and unfortunately you are known by the company you keep.

This is not a personal attack, but I started a thread several months ago, and was immediately shut down. My original problem with him has still not been taken care off, and he still does not respond to emails.

To me, this indicates a pattern. If indeed there are 15 of each coin manufactured, then there is a major problem.

I wonder if of my 10 civil war geocoins there are 5 samples of each, this would be a total of 50 coins out there?I am sure Mike is correct, when the trader awakes he will surely realize his error, he should contact all the people listed, as well as all the trades all ready made, return the coins to their rightful owners and make it all right.

Wouldn't this actually mean that there are 150 coins out there??

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Just a few things I noticed while reading through this thread.

 

 

No...having "floater" coins is not standard practice for most geocoin brokers. It is standard to make a few display samples, but not the so called "floater" coins. The display samples are not used for anything but display. Our (CoinsAndPins) standard practice is to recycle the metal of any extra or defective geocoins that will not be used for strictly display.

 

This seems like the right thing to do. Melt them down and reuse the metal. Not sell them for extra profit.

 

This is also untrue for most geocoin brokers. We (CoinsAndPins) consider any coin designs we re-sell as still owned by the client. If we wanted to make more, then we ask for permission from the client before proceeding, and offer additional compensation.

Again this seems the ethical thing to do.

 

Anthus has already contacted us RE: this and an explanation of possible sources was provided.

 

I'll post a comment here as well. As we explained by email, there are two possible sources for this "blank" coin.

 

First is the factory. We were using a different source at the time of that production and changed largely due to quality issues, including some coins which were not engraved or some which are also engraved with "typos". Yeah - they are out there.

 

Second (and far more likley) it is our practice for each of the three partners of the Geocoin Club to receive 5 un-numbered coins of every coin we produce for their portfolio/use. I don't think this is out of line. Especially on a project which we footed the bill for. We simply ask the factory for them not to engrave ours. I will not engage in a debate here about it, it's simply our practice and there is nothing sinister about it. If this is the source, there are no more than 15 in the world like it. We assign no value to a coin that was "tacked on" the end of a full production run and has no code. Especially in the absence of a "pedigree" for the coin. Obviously others feel the same, so it's moot as far as I can see. The original samples were provided to the OP (as a courtesy I might add - we don't generally obtain the samples) and a pedigree can be traced for those by the OP and we will also certify those are the original mint samples.

 

I think this was explained well to the OP in email. This thread and the resulting speculation makes it sound like many were made and distributed like this. And possibly that we even produce them and sold them somehow for profit. That's not true at all.

 

We concur with Damenace and Fluttershy and all those of this opinion.

 

We are unique in that we design and produce our own coins as well as those for others. As graphic designers we have a great deal of respect for the ownership of artwork. We try to always get our samples and our customer's samples engraved with 'sharkz' so there is no doubt that this is not a trackable coin (the mint occasionally takes poetic license and engraves them with PC1234 even when we specify 'sharkz'!) :blink:

 

We always send our clients their sample coins and keep a copy here also for our reference. We refer back to previous coins we made (including samples which never made it to final production), when we want to see what a certain finish or colour looked like. They are invaluable in the design process. We have on occasion given away some of our own sample coins of our own designs (eg: Canada Micro, engraved with 'sharkz'). We also donated 3 sample BC geocoins to a fundraiser for a fellow cacher. Otherwise, our customer's sample coins are not ours to give away, rather they are here so we can produce better coins in the future! As Whitebear can attest, when he comes by the studio, we often drag out the box of samples to assist him in choosing finishes for his coins :wub:.

 

Hopefully this can all come to a satisfactory conclusion and the coin owners can feel that this issue is resolved to their satisfaction. ;)

 

There's a paradox to some of these statements. :D

 

You're not as unique as you might think :o We design and produce our own coins as well as others'. And as you confirm - there's nothing unusual going on with the creation of these samples. I think that's clearly established.

 

Whether the samples are engraved or not, IMO, does not erase the fact that they exist. And because they exist, some feel those coins are inherently more valuable. So - I think we can accept as fact that every coin maker has sample coins and that some perceive those coins to have higher value.

 

What is different is the trading. It seemed innocent when it started and, I suspect, will not continue once the owner of the trading list wakes up and discovers what an outcry it's generated. I'm certain Bjorn never anticipated this kind of reaction or he never would have posted them in the first place. Over time, for a successful company, sample coins are like tribbles. They just keep multiplying. So, without malicious intent, some were listed for trade to "thin the herd". Poor decision? Yeah. At the time it seemed harmless. I even thought I'd do the same. In retrospect - not a great idea to trade them. A practice I hope and expect will be suspended as soon as the list owner awakens in the morning to my email requests.

 

If you make samples at all - your really can't condemn us for the same. The trading was bad judgment, but I think that will be corrected at the earliest opportunity.

 

This seems confusing to me. In a previous post you speak of a factory that you used. You also speak of Partners. Partners are not always exclusive in a production environment. Partners can still prodcue for other companies as well. This would infer that you don't entirely produce your own coins but rather work with partners that actually mint the coin. I don't know the details of your partnership, it just seemed a little odd based on the previous post where you were stating that perhaps the previous factory may have kept some coins. If these partners are truly producing coins just for you then you should have the final say as to what happens with the 5 display coins provided to each.

 

Why wouldn't they just melt them down and reuse the metal? Not sell them for extra profit. It just seems a little underhanded to me to sell these without consent. Granted it may have seemed harmless at the time however it does effect the trading value of the original/intended coin.

 

I see an un-numbered MS State coin on the list, we would also like to get our un numbered coins.

I have personally had no problems with the geocoinstore, and Mike has always been upfront in his dealings with me, I cannot however say the same about personalgeocoins, and unfortunately you are known by the company you keep.

This is not a personal attack, but I started a thread several months ago, and was immediately shut down. My original problem with him has still not been taken care off, and he still does not respond to emails.

To me, this indicates a pattern. If indeed there are 15 of each coin manufactured, then there is a major problem.

I wonder if of my 10 civil war geocoins there are 5 samples of each, this would be a total of 50 coins out there?I am sure Mike is correct, when the trader awakes he will surely realize his error, he should contact all the people listed, as well as all the trades all ready made, return the coins to their rightful owners and make it all right.

Wouldn't this actually mean that there are 150 coins out there??

 

Wow, it sure would. Shows my math skills at work. That is a lot of extras, if in fact this was done, don't know that it was, I was just wondering.

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Does anybody know for certain that there are actually 15 extras being made? It was my understanding that there were a few reserved from the total order produced for this use along with a few (if any) samples. I was under the impression a small number were set aside early on to cover any errors or missed orders placed for coins. IE: In the 400/100 scenario there are maybe 30 or so set aside early on out of that 400. The remaining 370 are sold out. Somebody writes and says "Hey you missed my order/preorder, see I have an email?" The coin company says "Good thing we set a few aside!" and promptly fullfills the order. When all is said and done and the dust clears there are a few left over which are then divided up for trading, etc. That seems pretty normal for any other manufacturing business out there, but am I just being naive? :blink:

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Does anybody know for certain that there are actually 15 extras being made? It was my understanding that there were a few reserved from the total order produced for this use along with a few (if any) samples. I was under the impression a small number were set aside early on to cover any errors or missed orders placed for coins. IE: In the 400/100 scenario there are maybe 30 or so set aside early on out of that 400. The remaining 370 are sold out. Somebody writes and says "Hey you missed my order/preorder, see I have an email?" The coin company says "Good thing we set a few aside!" and promptly fullfills the order. When all is said and done and the dust clears there are a few left over which are then divided up for trading, etc. That seems pretty normal for any other manufacturing business out there, but am I just being naive? :blink:

 

To answer your question, this is from earlier in the thread:

 

Second (and far more likley) it is our practice for each of the three partners of the Geocoin Club to receive 5 un-numbered coins of every coin we produce for their portfolio/use.

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Does anybody know for certain that there are actually 15 extras being made? It was my understanding that there were a few reserved from the total order produced for this use along with a few (if any) samples. I was under the impression a small number were set aside early on to cover any errors or missed orders placed for coins. IE: In the 400/100 scenario there are maybe 30 or so set aside early on out of that 400. The remaining 370 are sold out. Somebody writes and says "Hey you missed my order/preorder, see I have an email?" The coin company says "Good thing we set a few aside!" and promptly fullfills the order. When all is said and done and the dust clears there are a few left over which are then divided up for trading, etc. That seems pretty normal for any other manufacturing business out there, but am I just being naive? :blink:

 

To quote Mike's previous post...

 

Second (and far more likley) it is our practice for each of the three partners of the Geocoin Club to receive 5 un-numbered coins of every coin we produce for their portfolio/use.

 

That makes 15 coins of every coin they produce. There practice was not made aware of to me and is not in my legal agreement with them. In addition, my legal agreement stated that I needed to set aside 10-15 coins for refunds/exchanges -- not that they would do this. It also stated that the coinstore was not responsible for any lost shipments. Again, that's my agreement with them. I'm not sure what other people's agreements with them were.

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Does anybody know for certain that there are actually 15 extras being made? It was my understanding that there were a few reserved from the total order produced for this use along with a few (if any) samples. I was under the impression a small number were set aside early on to cover any errors or missed orders placed for coins. IE: In the 400/100 scenario there are maybe 30 or so set aside early on out of that 400. The remaining 370 are sold out. Somebody writes and says "Hey you missed my order/preorder, see I have an email?" The coin company says "Good thing we set a few aside!" and promptly fullfills the order. When all is said and done and the dust clears there are a few left over which are then divided up for trading, etc. That seems pretty normal for any other manufacturing business out there, but am I just being naive? :wub:

 

We just printed 1000 cards for a local bar, "Good for one free drink" We delivered 1000 cards to our customer, kept a sample stapled to our ticket and destroyed the overruns.

Should I have kept them and divided them up amongst my employees? (Probably ;) , but we didn't)

I think maybe you are being naive :blink:

 

End result being the trading list has been corrected, and as I previously stated, hopefully the trades will be rescinded and the original coin buyers notified.

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I read that, but I was aware of that when we had ours made. As it states "portfolio/use" I guess that final use is up to their discretion IF people are aware upfront. I was so I didn't have a problem, but my contract may have been different then. I meant does anybody know for certain that this is the case with every coin made with these companies?

 

When all is said and done, I'd want to retain as many as possible, but at the same time it's amazing that so many are putting such a high value on your coin. Not you Anthus in particular ;) , just that this cool way of leaving your mark and sharing your story with others is becoming so much more complex with the collecting side of it. :wub: I was so excited about leaving coins for people to find that this part of it never even registered in my mind. The irony of this is that there's an Anthus coin sitting in one of our caches that I'll see for the first time (if we get there first) and this is certainly not going to spoil things for us. If anything the anticipation is that much worse! :blink:

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This seems like the right thing to do. Melt them down and reuse the metal. Not sell them for extra profit.

 

When did the thread go from Anthus being upset about somebody having un-numbered coins on their trading site to selling these un-numbered coins for profit? I've seen it stated a few times...this does not seem to be case here. Sticking to pure fact seems totally fair, but speculation seems to be a smear campaign. Why? These folks have said they/he made a mistake and are working to fix it.

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I just wanted to add my 2 cents to this since I have dealt directly with one of the 3 people behind the Geocoin Club recently and an email from him shows his position on the matter regarding his own practices. I'm speaking of Rusty from personalgeocoins. He was the one working with me on my coin through personalgeocoins. Our discussions were totally informal, "I'd like this", "can we do that?", "this is how many I want", all the way through to delivery. The only mention of additional 'extra' coins was this (private email excerpt used with permission), "I always get an extra un-numbered sample coin of all the ones I do, would you mind if I had it engraved "Rusty" ? " I was already having a few coins custom engraved so naturally I said it was no problem. I had him include that coin on my bill and after telling him "it was on me", he responded by sending me a Rusty & Libby personal coin. It looks to me like there was one extra coin minted, it was discussed up front and it's in my possession 'cause Rusty didn't go through the box of coins to get it... I still have to send it to him!

 

I mention this because I don't want to see one fine business suffer due to the practices of another business (somewhat related) that may have made a mistake. I won't think twice about going back to Rusty for Joe - Volume 2.

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This seems like the right thing to do. Melt them down and reuse the metal. Not sell them for extra profit.

 

When did the thread go from Anthus being upset about somebody having un-numbered coins on their trading site to selling these un-numbered coins for profit? I've seen it stated a few times...this does not seem to be case here. Sticking to pure fact seems totally fair, but speculation seems to be a smear campaign. Why? These folks have said they/he made a mistake and are working to fix it.

Sorry but how can they possible make it right now? They have admitted to making at least 15 coins extra on every coin they mint. They have been trading these away to various other people. There was a trading list that spanned over 2 pages. There is no possible way they are going to collect everyone one of these bogus coins they have traded away and get them to the proper owner. Yes to the proper owner, not destroyed since at this point they have lost the public trust factor. What is done is done and there isn't a single way they can make this right. Are they going to offer Anthus and anyone else they did this to their money back? I seriously doubt it.

 

Is there a list of the coins this is known to have happened with or are we to assume that when they said every coin, that truly meant that and everything that has been minted by them is now known to have at least 15 bogus coins out there in circulation?

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When I made my Son of Cyclops coin with Rusty (part of geocoin store), he gets one for his own personal collection. I do not care about this. When I saw Rusty at the midwestgeobash this year, he had a huge box of traders and some of mine were in there non numbered and he GAVE them to me. When we had our Cyclops and Son coins made, he said he will deal with the ordering for a couple coins as payment and they still do that. Why should they not, you do not know how hard it is to design coins and sell them on top of there jobs in MiGO. And the box was 95% coins that he designed or made (and there were at least 150 coins in the box).

 

This is just my 2 cents but why don't you drop it! Who cares if there are 15 extra coins made out of the hundreds of coins that someone makes.

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I just wanted to add my 2 cents to this since I have dealt directly with one of the 3 people behind the Geocoin Club recently and an email from him shows his position on the matter regarding his own practices. I'm speaking of Rusty from personalgeocoins. He was the one working with me on my coin through personalgeocoins. Our discussions were totally informal, "I'd like this", "can we do that?", "this is how many I want", all the way through to delivery. The only mention of additional 'extra' coins was this (private email excerpt used with permission), "I always get an extra un-numbered sample coin of all the ones I do, would you mind if I had it engraved "Rusty" ? " I was already having a few coins custom engraved so naturally I said it was no problem. I had him include that coin on my bill and after telling him "it was on me", he responded by sending me a Rusty & Libby personal coin. It looks to me like there was one extra coin minted, it was discussed up front and it's in my possession 'cause Rusty didn't go through the box of coins to get it... I still have to send it to him!

 

I mention this because I don't want to see one fine business suffer due to the practices of another business (somewhat related) that may have made a mistake. I won't think twice about going back to Rusty for Joe - Volume 2.

 

 

Nice recommendation; to be able to do all of this on a virtual handshake.

 

I wanted to mention another possible use for blanks would be replacement coins. For reasons I don't understand, and don't want to discuss here, I am the black hole of coins and by that I mean an over 50% loss rate for ones I've put out. So the opportunity to replace one with the original tracking number would be something I would consider purchasing. Of course, I would want the owner's permission, meaning that I would want to purchase from the owner. Some people do offer blanks for sale but they do not contain the "trackable at..." wording on the coin.

 

Just a thought.

 

Cheers,

nooks

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...just that this cool way of leaving your mark and sharing your story with others is becoming so much more complex with the collecting side of it. :blink:

 

Well said, Chris. This reflects my own frustration with the way the "hobby" is going as well. I'd really encourage people to consider rethinking where (for some) the "enjoyment" of collecting geocoins has evolved into an overwhelming "obsession". There have been a few notable instances recently of alleged impropriety, indicating that individuals can take their obsession too far.

 

There should be no question whatsoever in the minds of any customer what will become of their project once they entrust it to a coin broker. There should be no surprises, no extra coins minted for trade, no extra coins minted in unapproved colors or finishes...without the express consent of the originator of said project. Period. Being open and upfront with your practices is the key to maintaining trust and operating a successful business. The same can easily be said for individual traders and sellers.

 

Hey, we're all in this together. I'm sure we've all learned some valuable lessons from these instances, and I hope it puts into perspective just how important it is for us all to uphold that innocent trust we welcomed way back when we started collecting these addictive little bits of shiny metal. These coins are meant to be FUN...so let's keep it that way?

 

Yime

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...just that this cool way of leaving your mark and sharing your story with others is becoming so much more complex with the collecting side of it. :(

 

Well said, Chris. This reflects my own frustration with the way the "hobby" is going as well. I'd really encourage people to consider rethinking where (for some) the "enjoyment" of collecting geocoins has evolved into an overwhelming "obsession". There have been a few notable instances recently of alleged impropriety, indicating that individuals can take their obsession too far.

 

There should be no question whatsoever in the minds of any customer what will become of their project once they entrust it to a coin broker. There should be no surprises, no extra coins minted for trade, no extra coins minted in unapproved colors or finishes...without the express consent of the originator of said project. Period. Being open and upfront with your practices is the key to maintaining trust and operating a successful business. The same can easily be said for individual traders and sellers.

 

Hey, we're all in this together. I'm sure we've all learned some valuable lessons from these instances, and I hope it puts into perspective just how important it is for us all to uphold that innocent trust we welcomed way back when we started collecting these addictive little bits of shiny metal. These coins are meant to be FUN...so let's keep it that way?

 

Yime

 

Amen

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When I made my Son of Cyclops coin with Rusty (part of geocoin store), he gets one for his own personal collection. I do not care about this. When I saw Rusty at the midwestgeobash this year, he had a huge box of traders and some of mine were in there non numbered and he GAVE them to me. When we had our Cyclops and Son coins made, he said he will deal with the ordering for a couple coins as payment and they still do that. Why should they not, you do not know how hard it is to design coins and sell them on top of there jobs in MiGO. And the box was 95% coins that he designed or made (and there were at least 150 coins in the box).

 

This is just my 2 cents but why don't you drop it! Who cares if there are 15 extra coins made out of the hundreds of coins that someone makes.

 

OMG. Rusty was trading these unauthorized coins at an event????? You are the second person that has informed me of this trading by the partners of the GeocoinClub / GeocoinStore / PersonalGeocoins at events of these coins! Lucily you were there to witness it and to get your coins. What about folks like me that weren't there and didn't get their coins back?

 

I design ALL of my coins. The Firefighter is my personal coin and my first coin -- so yes it does mean a lot to me! Keeping a couple coins was never part of our arrangement. They received $1 for each order that they fulfilled. That was their price that they were offering; that was their deal they offered to me.

 

I emailed Rusty, Mike, Bjorn74, and 2HappyHikers this morning requresing the coins be sent to me. I have not heard one word from Rusty or Bjorn74 on this whole incident -- whether through the forums, PM, or email. I received 2 days ago one message from the Geocoinstore and I posted it here yesterday. Other than that message I have not heard from Mike or his Geocoinstore outside of the messages in this thread. 2HappyHikers said they are sending the 2 coins they have back to the person they traded with to be "properly disposed of". And Pghlooking is right, I don't trust them to distroy the coins. I've lost all trust in that partnership. Their track record hasn't been all that good lately -- not just my incident that I'm learning about.

 

....Anthus

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Well said, Chris. This reflects my own frustration with the way the "hobby" is going as well. I'd really encourage people to consider rethinking where (for some) the "enjoyment" of collecting geocoins has evolved into an overwhelming "obsession". There have been a few notable instances recently of alleged impropriety, indicating that individuals can take their obsession too far.

 

There should be no question whatsoever in the minds of any customer what will become of their project once they entrust it to a coin broker. There should be no surprises, no extra coins minted for trade, no extra coins minted in unapproved colors or finishes...without the express consent of the originator of said project. Period. Being open and upfront with your practices is the key to maintaining trust and operating a successful business. The same can easily be said for individual traders and sellers.

 

Hey, we're all in this together. I'm sure we've all learned some valuable lessons from these instances, and I hope it puts into perspective just how important it is for us all to uphold that innocent trust we welcomed way back when we started collecting these addictive little bits of shiny metal. These coins are meant to be FUN...so let's keep it that way?

 

Yime

 

Wow. Go deal with the real world for a while and see what happens? :(

 

Well said Yime. What started as a fun hobby and a way to leave your mark somewhere has turned into big business. With that comes some unscrupolous behavior (note that I am not directing this towards any one person in particular).

 

Rogue coins, blanks, extras, etc. diminsh the value of the other coins, I think most have agreed on that.

 

What we've seen latey are two instances where things have gone over the edge and gotten crazy. Who knows what else is going on (with other people)?

 

I for one wouldn't go near an un-numbered coin at this point without knowing that it came from the original maker of that coin (not the broker). Sadly, some will still trade for or buy these and keep them horded in thier collection. Hopefully the vast majority of the community will recognize these for what they are and frown upon them. If this happens, the coins should be tucked away in somebody's collection without ever seeing the light of day for fear of being an outcast.

 

Hopefully anybody doing this will recall "The Telltale Heart" by Edgar Allen Poe. :anicute:

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Before any more speculation and talk goes on, I would like to hear from the coin manufacturers involved here. Are they all aware of this thread?

Let's not destroy anyone's reputations based on hear-say from third parties. I would like to hear from them, personally, what the standard practice is in producing not numbered coins, and how they inform people that this is happening. People should be made aware of this practice, if it is standard policy, and should be given the option of saying no. Coin manufacturers, speak up please.

Eartha

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Floaters! OK, how do I get my floaters? I also had 50 LE coins made. Now there are 55 LE coins? Thanks Anthus for bringing this to my attention.

I will keep watching this forum to see what happen next.

 

If anybody has an untrackable geocoin of mine please let me know. I will send them a real one of mine.

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OMG. Rusty was trading these unauthorized coins at an event????? You are the second person that has informed me of this trading by the partners of the GeocoinClub / GeocoinStore / PersonalGeocoins at events of these coins! Lucily you were there to witness it and to get your coins. What about folks like me that weren't there and didn't get their coins back?

 

No, no, no, I was not telling on Rusty, he is my friend! He offered me the coins with out me asking at all and did not want anything in exchange. These coins were in his personal trading collection. The dollar that you talk about is not just for them to make money. They send $0.63 on mailing them and they use "2" bubble mailers (not the paper ones but the very good plastic ones) to ship the coins, pack them and take them to the post office to be mailed which ends up them making almost nothing per shipment. rusty is a good man and paid for those coins himself. The people who spends there days working hard so people like all of you can get your coins on time so if they make a few extra coins for there own use, I am OK with that.

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I have had a geocoin made by The Geocoin Store and I was the point person on a second geocoin also made by The Geocoin Store, I have had no issues with either geocoin and I have to say that I have no issues with The Geocoin Store, none at all and it is very likely that I won't have an issue.

I was not aware that The Geocoin Store was making additional unnumbered coins primarily because it wasn't that important to me, if they had asked for 15 more coins to be made for them I would have said "feel free to do that", I might have balked at 50 or 100 though. I would have clarified the issue of extras if I thought it was important. I did make sure that the right to reproduce the geocoins I originated stayed with me but that was for the broad purpose of ensuring that the geocoin could not be remade in quantity at some future point without my authorization, I took the word of one of the Geocoin Store principles and that is/was good enough for me, I have no "legal agreements".

I am not a geocoin collector so much as a geocacher who likes geocoins.

I have never traded geocoins and in anticipation of GeocoinFest I recently checked my collection, I have a grand total of twenty geocoins (that is right, twenty).

Every one of the twenty geocoins I own is very special to me, I have found them while geocaching or I have been given the geocoin by other geocachers. I was given two geocoins just this past Christmas, one by nielsenc and one by Camp Explorers, thank you both for these beautiful gifts. I purchased three coins recently on Ebay so that I could actually have three coins for the Geocoin Poker Challenge without giving away any of the twenty coins I treasure. :anicute::(:anicute:

When I first received my split of the GAS Geocoin project (I got 125 coins) I started to give them away as new unactivated geocoins, I gave away all of them, I think I have two left and I am putting one in the Geocoin Poker Challenge. The idea behind the geocoin giveaways was simple, I love geocaching and thought other geocachers would appreciate finding one of these geocoins in a cache, I thought it would create enduring excitement. The best treasure I have ever found in a geocache was a geocoin (2005 Texas Geocaching Coin, number 1213), my assessment is based upon the value that I place on the geocoin, not what another person is willing to pay for it. Geocaching and geocoins go together, one without the other has no value, this is my opinion. The primary purpose of the geocoin is as swag, they are intended to be placed into caches, they are intended to be given away, this is my opinion.

 

I appreciate that there are buyers who purchase the geocoins to collect and that is what allows me to give away the geocoins that I do give away. I think I do understand why geocachers collect them and buy them and I may be one of those people at some future point, right now I am not.

I saw a donated geocoin getting sold an Ebay and it was never intended to enrich the seller. I thought it was very sad that the person corrupting the spirit of the donation would would trash their geocaching name for a few hundred dollars.

I see cachers putting some importance on geocoins and forgetting about geocaching.

I understand why Stacy is upset and I realize that the complaint is real, I just can't get mad at the folks who run The Geocoin Store over what I see as a minor mistake. I know that there are others who will feel differently and I respect their right to be upset but I am not going to join them.

 

I am looking forward to meeting -mike- at the GeocoinFest as we have never met.

 

If I win the Geocoin Poker Challenge I will be giving away all of the geocoins. :anicute:

 

I was looking through my profile at the geocoins I have found and moved on. I was looking at the ones that have been stolen and I got some pleasure out of realizing that even though the geocoins were stolen they would never be something the thief could sell as they are activated and owned by other geocachers and as a community we agree that these stolen geocoins are badges of shame rather than medals of honour.

 

kealia has made a very good point, as a community we can control the value of these coins by insisting that they are simply "mistakes" rather than "errors". If I find one in a cache I would be happy to keep it but I will join kealia and say that I will never buy or trade for these "mistakes". If there are any "mistakes" from the geocoins that I have commissioned then I would be happy to take them back.

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if they had asked for 15 more coins to be made for them I would have said "feel free to do that",

I think this is the biggest point. IF they had asked. But they didn't, at least they did not ask Anthus, and I don't recall seeing it in my agreement, though it may have been.

 

And as footTrax stated, if anyone has any of my coins that are not numbered, please contact me. I would like to get them out of circulation if possible.

 

And Cornerstone4...I understood IT immediately! :(

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if they had asked for 15 more coins to be made for them I would have said "feel free to do that",

I think this is the biggest point. IF they had asked. But they didn't, at least they did not ask Anthus, and I don't recall seeing it in my agreement, though it may have been.

 

And as footTrax stated, if anyone has any of my coins that are not numbered, please contact me. I would like to get them out of circulation if possible.

 

And Cornerstone4...I understood IT immediately! :(

 

Actually, your avatar looks like IT :anicute:

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The Hogwild Perspective . . . . for what it is worth.

 

I have been traveling the last three days but have been watching this thread with great interest. I guess I would first like to say that we are all in the geocoin thing together and largely traveling uncharted waters, so I guess I see two issues:

 

It seems that in retrospect the extra 15 coins was excessive and assuming that policy is changed it is pretty hard to un-spill water. So the store would go along way toward reestablishing credibility by changing and announcing that change.

 

Second I think that better rapid communication between any two people who have differences is the key to keeping these things at a reasonable level.

 

Coin designs are very personal things and so I think that discovering extra coins of your design being made available and being upset by it is a reasonable reaction.

 

The Hogwild Policy:

 

1. Unlike other minters I essentially own most of the designs that I mint. I each trade coins for them or pay cash for them. There is typically a lose ratio of coins that I give to a designer based on the number of coins made. That being said, I am free to make as many trackable or non- trackable as I want, which maks life a lot easier.

 

2. When I make coins for others I will sometimes end up with some extra samples that don't go to the customer. It would be maybe up to 6 with various finishes. They would never be traded or sold without explicit permission of the owner of the design. They might occasionally go to a potential customer (at no charge to the customer) as an example of the quality of work I do.

 

3. Occasionally I will do a hybrid such as the CachingCoins or the Chili Pepper coin. In those circumstances I establish an agreement with the customer as to the price I will pay for the coins I am selling and the number of coins I am going to sell these coins are then owned by me and I can sell them, keep them or trade them. The one thing I can’t do is make more for any purpose without the owner’s permission. (The CachingCoins coin being an exception to this rule, where the owner still retains some rights to the unsold coins).

 

Ultimately each situation is a little different and the key is good communication between all parties. There have been, as near as I can tell, since the first of the year 4 little dramas in the forums over coins. Pretty much all could have been resolved or adverted with better and more straightforward communication. Unfortunately there are some people who would prefer to stir the pot than resolve the issue and this is unfortunate. It hurts the forums, it hurts Geocaching and it hurts the world of geocoins.

 

One Final thing. It is not uncommon for the factory to keep some coins that they will then send to prospective customers. I have in my possession two un-umbered geocoins that were sent to me as samples by the factory.

 

and no! I am not saying which ones and they will never go up for trade or sale.

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No, no, no, I was not telling on Rusty, he is my friend! He offered me the coins with out me asking at all and did not want anything in exchange.

 

That's great news for you. You got your unauthorized coins. Not one of them have offered to give me the Anthus coins!

 

The dollar that you talk about is not just for them to make money. They send $0.63 on mailing them and they use "2" bubble mailers (not the paper ones but the very good plastic ones) to ship the coins, pack them and take them to the post office to be mailed which ends up them making almost nothing per shipment.

 

This is not a true statement. The total for each order for S&H was way more than $1. If someone only ordered 1 coin, I believe it was $3.33. So, I'm probably being generous by saying they made $1. It was probably more than that. I can recall the whole stink about everyone complaining of the price of S&H from the Geocoinstore when they first offered this. PersonalGeocoins made their part from the brokering point as I didn't get a cheaper price on the minting from them than I did from the other brokers at that time.

 

 

The people who spends there days working hard so people like all of you can get your coins on time so if they make a few extra coins for there own use, I am OK with that.

 

He is in the business of coin brokering. He is supposed to be a trusted agent between you and the mint. Having extra coins minted without the coin owners permission and then trading them is not being a trusted agent! I don't see Oakcoins doing this; I don't see CoinsAndPins with this type of business practice either. Other coin brokers have come forward in this thread to say that they don't practice this behavior nor do they think it is right to do so. We need to be able to trust our coin broker.

 

These coins have my Anthus name on them. I take pride in my coins. They represent me in this caching community. It's one thing to get samples it's another to get 15 and trade them.

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Unfortunately there are some people who would prefer to stir the pot than resolve the issue and this is unfortunate. It hurts the forums, it hurts Geocaching and it hurts the world of geocoins.

 

The reason these forums exist is to keep people informed. This incident involved more than just my coins. I had no clue how many but I knew it was a large group so I informed them through this forum. Many have coin owners thanked me for this.

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Unfortunately there are some people who would prefer to stir the pot than resolve the issue and this is unfortunate. It hurts the forums, it hurts Geocaching and it hurts the world of geocoins.

 

One Final thing. It is not uncommon for the factory to keep some coins that they will then send to prospective customers. I have in my possession two un-umbered geocoins that were sent to me as samples by the factory.

 

 

I agree with everything you said in your post except a few things here.

It's not the people who bring the issues to the forums who hurt the community and coins. It's the PRACTICE that started the whole thing that is the problem. Why blame the person who was hurt in this for airing thier grievance? This practice would have have continued on had this not come to light.

 

And I don't think that anything that has to do with coins hurts geocaching one bit. What started off as a sig item for caching has turned into it's own hobby and money-making venture (reference the number of new coin stores and brokers popping up lately). At this point, coins and caching are becoming two seperate entities and that saddens me.

 

As for the mint sending you (the broker) a COUPLE of sample coins - that's not a problem. Nobody here has an issue with that. It's the excess quantities.

 

That all being said, I wouldn't mind seeing this thread locked down until the broker in question comes in to provide his POV. This could easily be spun into another generic thread (sample coins, extra coins, etc.) since this thread is supposed to be specific to Anthus's issue.

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Geocoins, and all that goes along with them, are still relatively new. People wanting to have coins made do not always know what questions to ask. It's a growing hobby and without open discussion, we cannot learn or grow properly. As long as we can stick to facts, and not speculate, and let people come forward with the facts, then we can all gain from this.

 

As I said, I'd like to hear from coin makers, and it would be especially nice if the ones involved were allowed to explain their policies and if they would take notice of how the coin community feels about these policies, and change them if necessary.

 

It's important to be up front when running a business about all aspects of a consumer's product. You have to earn trust, and you have to earn your business, and word of mouth can go a long way in promoting, or demoting, a business.

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That all being said, I wouldn't mind seeing this thread locked down until the broker in question comes in to provide his POV.

 

Not trying to be funny, but if I lock it, where will they post?

 

I have my eye on this thread. I'm getting a notification each time a new post is posted (my mailbox is full!) and as long as we're having a civil discussion we may learn from this.

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I guess I would first like to say that we are all in the geocoin thing together and largely traveling uncharted waters...

 

I disagree with this. The geocoin thing has been going on for almost 3 years now. We all know what to expect wheather people think so or not.

 

CoinsAndPins.com has, and always has had, a firm policy to never distribute or release sample geocoins whether trackable or not. We make the customer firmly clear on how many coins were made and where they are going. Our employees are also very clear on our rules and policies of the control measures for our geocoins. We also do not set aside blank coins to fill shipping problems; we only set aside trackable coins (still part of the original quantity) for this.

 

Here is what our website states in the copyright page, and has stated this for at least the last 2 years, but the policy has always been there. This policy is written in regards to both geocoins and non-geocoins:

"Your coin design will not be available for sale to any one else; only you can order your coin even if it is listed on the web site awaiting an on-line payment. We keep tight control to not violate customer's rights of their designs. We will have production samples made for us to show at trade shows, possibly post as a photo on the web site or banners, or give out in limited quantities as production samples to show customers how specific processes look on a completed coin. We completely restrict geocaching products from being given out as samples unless specifically directed by the owner of the design. Any numbering sequences or codes on samples will be false numbers (example: "ACP0##", or "100") only to give potential customers the idea of how the quality of our etching looks."

 

Here is an example:

We just recently had a situation where we got our production quantity wrong on an order of personal geocoins we are reselling and 50 more coins were made than originally agreed upon. We asked the client if they wanted some extra free coins as compensation or if they wanted the extra coins destroyed. The client agreed on the extra coins. If they said they wanted the extras destroyed, then we would have gladly eaten the cost of it and destroyed them. And we did not try to influence the customer to just take the free coins to save us money. We made a mistake and we will fix it.

 

We would never intentionally ruin the trust between us and our clients, especially when it comes to geocoins simply because of how the general geocoin public perceives the value of these coins.

 

I guess one thing that helps us keep this control at CoinsAndPins is, in the past and currently, none of its owners and employees are coin collectors; so we have no interest in making extra coins other than for display. Not only that, but more than 2 extra coins is an unnecessary expense to the business. Even though I don't collect coins, I do understand how the general public feels about the market and would never think to do anything with our samples other than to display them or destroy them. No "if"s, "and"s, or "but"s about it. Nor would we ever make extras without the customer's knowledge.

 

Please let me know if you have any questions.

 

Thank you

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Unfortunately there are some people who would prefer to stir the pot than resolve the issue and this is unfortunate. It hurts the forums, it hurts Geocaching and it hurts the world of geocoins.

 

The reason these forums exist is to keep people informed. This incident involved more than just my coins. I had no clue how many but I knew it was a large group so I informed them through this forum. Many have coin owners thanked me for this.

 

Please don't misunderstand this comment. I agree 100% with you. It protects the community and in your particular situation you did not get good commuication, so your post was right on point.

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I have three types of coin arrangements:

 

1) 100% original designs. These are mine, I own them, I make what I want, and sell what I want.

 

2) Co-designs. These are made with an arrangement with the artist/originator to make and market the coin. They get some form of payment (usually coins), and in return I get the rights to make what I want, and sell what I want.

 

3) Coin-making-service. Someone sends me a design and asks me to mint it for them. They set the quantities, and they own the design. I might sell some with their blessing, but they control what is made, and what is sold.

 

In all cases I may have samples in various finishes. I may part with samples from 1) and 2), but in the case of 3) I don't own the design, and the client has full control over what gets produced and what gets sold and/or given away.

 

I will also second what has been said here - the mint will produce extras of various works and use those items as samples for their clients. I have unnumbered coins, challenge coins, Disney lapel pins, and even a NYC Police keychain as mint samples.

 

But, this thread has me thinking, and I will ask to see what options there are to control which designs can be used for samples by the mint. I'll post if I find anything out.

Edited by crake
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