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Non Authorized Anthus Firefighter Coins


Anthus

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Please read. Very important !!

 

It has come to my attention within the last two days that some unauthorized non-trackable Anthus Firefighter geocoins are being offered for trade. There were 500 Firefighters minted around this time last year and they were sold on the geocoinstore.com. All 500 coins are trackable. I did not authorize any non-trackable Firefighters. I even received the proofs from the store. So, when I saw a non-trackable being offered I was concerned. I was able to find 2 people on one of the coin trading sites that had an Anthus Firefighter listed as non trackable. Both traders had more than one coin listed as a non-trackable. I also noticed that these other non-trackable coins were also sold on the geocoinstore around the same time as mine. Then there was a post in the trading part of this forum that resulted in a list of tradable coins being emailed to me. Turns out that these coins are listed as non-trackable, including one non-trackable Firefighter and many other non-trackables from the geocoinstore.com.

 

Not only am I upset that other people are gaining by coins that I did not authorized but I'm worried that if anyone would start to circulate counterfeit or non-authorized coins, it could prove to be disastrous to the geocoin community. I urge each of you to check the coin trading sites to see if any unauthorized editions of your coins are out there.

 

Thanks so much.....Anthus

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You know when you sell your coin and get a certain number for free through that website, you essentially give away the coin design in exchange for free coins. There are always a certain number of over run product that are used as samples by the vendors. I'm pretty sure that's what this is.

 

I did not sell my design for free coins. It was made clear that the design was owned by me.

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You know when you sell your coin and get a certain number for free through that website, you essentially give away the coin design in exchange for free coins. There are always a certain number of over run product that are used as samples by the vendors. I'm pretty sure that's what this is.

 

Samples are one thing - to show to prospective clients. Giving away the "extras" or using them without the coin designers knowledge is just flat out wrong.

 

I'll hold off judgement until more is learned, but it sounds shaky...

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You know when you sell your coin and get a certain number for free through that website, you essentially give away the coin design in exchange for free coins. There are always a certain number of over run product that are used as samples by the vendors. I'm pretty sure that's what this is.

I did not sell my design for free coins. It was made clear that the design was owned by me.

 

Obviously I have no idea about the specifics of your agreement when you brokered your coin through the geocoin store. I'm just stating what their typical agreement entails and that's usually a certain number of free coins for them selling a certain additional number of the same design.

 

Having a few SAMPLE coins made without tracking is pretty common practice by SOME vendors.

 

Edited to correct two terms as requested.

Edited by AtlantaGal
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Obviously I have no idea about the specifics of your agreement when you brokered your coin through the geocoin store. I'm just stating what their typical agreement entails and that's usually a certain number of free coins for them selling a certain additional number of the same design. Having a few floater coins made without tracking is pretty common practice by most vendors.

 

I'm not blaming anyone or pointing any fingers. I wanted to let people know these coins exist and are not authorized. I'm not going to get into the details of my agreement here. But, I've kept a copy of my agreement and it does not state what you have indicated above. I really hope this is an isolated incident.

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Has anybody mentioned to you where they got them from to start with?

 

It seems that this would be the best place to start to avoid any speculation.

 

I tried this 2 days ago. The person got very defensive and wouldn't even send me a pic of the coin. Then I saw them being traded on this site today. I wanted to seek out all the facts before posting here, but since they are now being actively traded, people needed to know they are not trading for an authentic geocoin.

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You know when you sell your coin and get a certain number for free through that website, you essentially give away the coin design in exchange for free coins. There are always a certain number of over run product that are used as samples by the vendors. I'm pretty sure that's what this is.

 

This statement is 100% INCORRECT!!! I'm sorry AG, but you should have really considered what you were saying before you injected your opinion this time.

 

This statement comes off as a synopsis of how MOST minting companies operate, and that's terribly misleading. You stand to deter people away from honest companies that DO NOT FOLLOW THIS PRACTICE.

 

You are consistently asking people to retract statements, and you should seriously consider following your own advice here.

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Obviously I have no idea about the specifics of your agreement when you brokered your coin through the geocoin store. I'm just stating what their typical agreement entails and that's usually a certain number of free coins for them selling a certain additional number of the same design. Having a few floater coins made without tracking is pretty common practice by most vendors.

 

No...having "floater" coins is not standard practice for most geocoin brokers. It is standard to make a few display samples, but not the so called "floater" coins. The display samples are not used for anything but display. Our (CoinsAndPins) standard practice is to recycle the metal of any extra or defective geocoins that will not be used for strictly display.

 

 

You know when you sell your coin and get a certain number for free through that website, you essentially give away the coin design in exchange for free coins. There are always a certain number of over run product that are used as samples by the vendors. I'm pretty sure that's what this is.

 

 

This is also untrue for most geocoin brokers. We (CoinsAndPins) consider any coin designs we re-sell as still owned by the client. If we wanted to make more, then we ask for permission from the client before proceeding, and offer additional compensation.

 

I do not like how you have generalized the broker business with your opinions, especially since you are not as familiar with it as you think you are; and I especially don't like how you are misleading the public. Leave the true details of what is "standard" practice to those in the business instead of your skewed views.

Edited by CoinsAndPins
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Has anybody mentioned to you where they got them from to start with?

 

It seems that this would be the best place to start to avoid any speculation.

 

I tried this 2 days ago. The person got very defensive and wouldn't even send me a pic of the coin. Then I saw them being traded on this site today. I wanted to seek out all the facts before posting here, but since they are now being actively traded, people needed to know they are not trading for an authentic geocoin.

 

So are these non-trackables different coins, or are they exactly the same as the 'real' ones but without a tracking number?? (are they overruns / samples like AtlantaGal suggested?)

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You know when you sell your coin and get a certain number for free through that website, you essentially give away the coin design in exchange for free coins. There are always a certain number of over run product that are used as samples by the vendors. I'm pretty sure that's what this is.

 

Obviously I have no idea about the specifics of your agreement when you brokered your coin through the geocoin store. I'm just stating what their typical agreement entails and that's usually a certain number of free coins for them selling a certain additional number of the same design. Having a few floater coins made without tracking is pretty common practice by most vendors.

 

I normally stay out of these types of things but I also feel you should have proof before you post how coin sellers do deals.

 

For the record USA Geocoins has NEVER made any extra non-trackable floater coins.

 

Any coins we have made are trackable only. We occasionally have some that are stamped "Sample" and those are sent directly to that customer only.

 

If some other coins sellers are doing things in the manner that you mentiond you may be better served by saying "A small percentage" instead of "most".

 

Thank you

USA Geocoins

Edited by Eric K
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If some other coins sellers are doing things in the manner that you mentiond you may be better served by saying "A small percentage" instead of "most".

 

Or better still name the sellers with evidence of same or withdraw the statement which appears to be at best questionable given the response here.

 

Andrew

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Two poor word choices originally on my part.

 

Anthus, I'm sorry your thread got derailed. I hope you work out your issue with the vendor in question. All I was saying is that I believed their was probably an explaination and I gave you statements to support that belief. As I said I do not know the specific agreement you had.

 

This topic doesn't involve me anyway.

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Well that is terrible. I hope you can get all the unauthorized Firefighters out of circulation. I would not be happy if there were any rouge PoSAM coins out and about. :cool:

 

Have you emailed all the people that say they have some? The 2 from the coin collection site and the one that posted them here for trade? Have any of them been able/willing to tell you where they came from?

 

I am sure this will all work out, and you will get the answers you need.

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Well in case people are wondering, feel free to check this trader list to see if any of your personal coins are being traded as unnumbered?

 

Trader List

 

I am not even going to speculate, but is it ever OK for the mint to trade away a persons personal coin that they received as a proof? If the coin was obtained properly would the coin not be numbered just like the rest of the coins in the series?

 

I am really starting to see the trend now, can you say shady :cool: !

Edited by Damenace
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All the proof coins I have were either given to me directly from the person who designed or made the coins or they are my designs. Why do I have to defend myself here Damenace? Anthus wasn't even referring to me in the first place.

 

Where in my post did I even mention your name?? Your old news!!!

Edited by Damenace
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Anthus has already contacted us RE: this and an explanation of possible sources was provided.

 

I'll post a comment here as well. As we explained by email, there are two possible sources for this "blank" coin.

 

First is the factory. We were using a different source at the time of that production and changed largely due to quality issues, including some coins which were not engraved or some which are also engraved with "typos". Yeah - they are out there.

 

Second (and far more likley) it is our practice for each of the three partners of the Geocoin Club to receive 5 un-numbered coins of every coin we produce for their portfolio/use. I don't think this is out of line. Especially on a project which we footed the bill for. We simply ask the factory for them not to engrave ours. I will not engage in a debate here about it, it's simply our practice and there is nothing sinister about it. If this is the source, there are no more than 15 in the world like it. We assign no value to a coin that was "tacked on" the end of a full production run and has no code. Especially in the absence of a "pedigree" for the coin. Obviously others feel the same, so it's moot as far as I can see. The original samples were provided to the OP (as a courtesy I might add - we don't generally obtain the samples) and a pedigree can be traced for those by the OP and we will also certify those are the original mint samples.

 

I think this was explained well to the OP in email. This thread and the resulting speculation makes it sound like many were made and distributed like this. And possibly that we even produce them and sold them somehow for profit. That's not true at all.

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Second (and far more likley) it is our practice for each of the three partners of the Geocoin Club to receive 5 un-numbered coins of every coin we produce for their portfolio/use. I don't think this is out of line. Especially on a project which we footed the bill for. We simply ask the factory for them not to engrave ours. I will not engage in a debate here about it, it's simply our practice and there is nothing sinister about it. If this is the source, there are no more than 15 in the world like it. We assign no value to a coin that was "tacked on" the end of a full production run and has no code. Especially in the absence of a "pedigree" for the coin. Obviously others feel the same, so it's moot as far as I can see. The original samples were provided to the OP (as a courtesy I might add - we don't generally obtain the samples) and a pedigree can be traced for those by the OP and we will also certify those are the original mint samples.

 

I think this was explained well to the OP in email. This thread and the resulting speculation makes it sound like many were made and distributed like this. And possibly that we even produce them and sold them somehow for profit. That's not true at all.

 

Alright I have a question, And no I am not trying to turn this into a debate. I believe there is some ethical responsibility that falls on the people that mint the coins. I agree that you foot the bill but we must agree that you are totally reimbursed for the coins you mint.

 

I agree that there is nothing "sinister" for ordering extra coins to add to a portfolio. However where I think that crosses over is when the mint puts the un-numerbered extra coins on their list to trade. It is in my opinion that the value of a coin does go up when there is something different to it than what the original series was intended to be, IE no tracking number. These can be percieved as errors in the coin tracking world, so as you had stated there are 15 rare coins circulating that the owner of the design has no idea about. In my opinion the only person that has the right to trade the "unnumbered" coins is the person that designed them.

 

I have no objection to the minters trading coins assuming they are part of the original run including tracking, I do not believe it is ethically or moraly OK to trade coins that where never intended to be traded.

 

I am sorry if I am the only person that see's it this way. I would love to hear others thoughts concerning this matter.

Edited by Damenace
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My opinion is if a trackable coin is sans code or has a typoed code - they are worthless. The FIRST thing someone does if a code is not right on a coin (and it happens) is contact us for a replacement. They don't hoarde it and post it on ebay as a "rare error". Why should completely blank coins be assigned any additional value than typoed coins? They are the same metal, the same colors, everything. Even the same production run.

 

The exception to this is pedigree. If you can establish value - for instance the original production samples - then it's different. Anthus maintains those. If/when they are given, sold, otherwise I would suggest that a pedigree be provided with them somehow. A letter from Anthus stating what they are. Otherwise - they're just blank coins.

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Damenace,

 

I agree with you. A sample is a sample. It's not meant for trading. It's an insult to the designer to trade a conveniently "unstamped" coin.

 

If this practice is so valid or comfortable to the Vendor, why would the designer have become so upset?

 

It's not right. If these samples went straight to a portfolio, there is a certain pride in that.

But to trade in these little circles loses all integrity.

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Why should completely blank coins be assigned any additional value than typoed coins? They are the same metal, the same colors, everything. Even the same production run.

 

 

It's not that they should have a value, but that they do have a value, regardless of what you personally feel. We may wish it not to be so, but the market will give it value as being rare. If traded, most likely they will find their way to an auction site. At the very least the designer will then have to field a barrage of questions regarding this new rare coin and no one wants that.

 

I took a look at the trading list that D posted and this does look like a time bomb about ready to go off.

So I hope there is an explanation and those really aren't meant to be traded as blanks.

 

Cheers,

nooks

Edited by nooks
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Apparently some value those coins enough to put them on trading lists, so the argument that they are worthless does not hold. Unauthorized use of a design constitutes a copyright infringement. Obviously the minting companies like to have display samples of their work, but the number and usage of such coins should be strictly limited and the customer informed.

 

I noticed this already earlier (the floater coins) so I said to myself, if I were to order coins, I would make it very clear that I do not want any coins not coming to my hands.

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We concur with Damenace and Fluttershy and all those of this opinion.

 

We are unique in that we design and produce our own coins as well as those for others. As graphic designers we have a great deal of respect for the ownership of artwork. We try to always get our samples and our customer's samples engraved with 'sharkz' so there is no doubt that this is not a trackable coin (the mint occasionally takes poetic license and engraves them with PC1234 even when we specify 'sharkz'!) :blink:

 

We always send our clients their sample coins and keep a copy here also for our reference. We refer back to previous coins we made (including samples which never made it to final production), when we want to see what a certain finish or colour looked like. They are invaluable in the design process. We have on occasion given away some of our own sample coins of our own designs (eg: Canada Micro, engraved with 'sharkz'). We also donated 3 sample BC geocoins to a fundraiser for a fellow cacher. Otherwise, our customer's sample coins are not ours to give away, rather they are here so we can produce better coins in the future! As Whitebear can attest, when he comes by the studio, we often drag out the box of samples to assist him in choosing finishes for his coins :wub:.

 

Hopefully this can all come to a satisfactory conclusion and the coin owners can feel that this issue is resolved to their satisfaction. ;)

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There's a paradox to some of these statements. :blink:

 

You're not as unique as you might think :wub: We design and produce our own coins as well as others'. And as you confirm - there's nothing unusual going on with the creation of these samples. I think that's clearly established.

 

Whether the samples are engraved or not, IMO, does not erase the fact that they exist. And because they exist, some feel those coins are inherently more valuable. So - I think we can accept as fact that every coin maker has sample coins and that some perceive those coins to have higher value.

 

What is different is the trading. It seemed innocent when it started and, I suspect, will not continue once the owner of the trading list wakes up and discovers what an outcry it's generated. I'm certain Bjorn never anticipated this kind of reaction or he never would have posted them in the first place. Over time, for a successful company, sample coins are like tribbles. They just keep multiplying. So, without malicious intent, some were listed for trade to "thin the herd". Poor decision? Yeah. At the time it seemed harmless. I even thought I'd do the same. In retrospect - not a great idea to trade them. A practice I hope and expect will be suspended as soon as the list owner awakens in the morning to my email requests.

 

If you make samples at all - your really can't condemn us for the same. The trading was bad judgment, but I think that will be corrected at the earliest opportunity.

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Seems to me that "footing the bill" is very misleading. Anthus is the one who paid for it. If your practice is to not have the customer pay it up front and you wish to foot it till the coins arrive or something , that is your buisness choice. When you start taking and having 15 coins minted extra without consent from the person who is actually the one who is paying for the edition, then to me that is stealing. Just because you "foot the bill" initially, doesn't entitle you to anything more than the deal was. Going behind his back and just taking a few extra coins is not right. Where does it stop? If taking 5 each is OK now, what about 10. That's not that many more, then maybe 20 each. Where does it end? That's a pretty poor buisness practice ethically. I wonder how it stands legally since he had a contract for his coin to be minted at 500 coins, not 515.

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No Damenace, you are not the only one that see's it this way. I totally agree with what you wrote.

 

So do I, UNLESS the minter made this clear to the purchaser upfront and they agree to it. If it was not agreed to then I would suggest that it was not only unethical but possibly worse

 

Andrew

Edited by Aushiker
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All the proof coins I have were either given to me directly from the person who designed or made the coins or they are my designs. Why do I have to defend myself here Damenace? Anthus wasn't even referring to me in the first place.

 

You mentioned that you have some proofs. Do you have any proof coins of mine in your collection? I obviously didn't know these existed until just 3 days ago, so I didn't do any trading or selling of them. I'm not accusing you, just want to know if you have any of mine or any of the other Geocoinstore proofs.

 

Thanks....Anthus

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All the proof coins I have were either given to me directly from the person who designed or made the coins or they are my designs. Why do I have to defend myself here Damenace? Anthus wasn't even referring to me in the first place.

 

You mentioned that you have some proofs. Do you have any proof coins of mine in your collection? I obviously didn't know these existed until just 3 days ago, so I didn't do any trading or selling of them. I'm not accusing you, just want to know if you have any of mine or any of the other Geocoinstore proofs.

 

Thanks....Anthus

 

AtlantaGal said:

All the proof coins I have were either given to me directly from the person who designed or made the coins or they are my designs.
So if you didn't give it to her, and she didn't design your coin, then she doesn't have one of yours.

 

To the rest: This thread needs to remain on topic, I'm keeping my eye on it. Personal attacks are unacceptable and will not be tolerated.

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What is different is the trading. It seemed innocent when it started and, I suspect, will not continue once the owner of the trading list wakes up and discovers what an outcry it's generated. I'm certain Bjorn never anticipated this kind of reaction or he never would have posted them in the first place. Over time, for a successful company, sample coins are like tribbles. They just keep multiplying. So, without malicious intent, some were listed for trade to "thin the herd". Poor decision? Yeah. At the time it seemed harmless. I even thought I'd do the same. In retrospect - not a great idea to trade them. A practice I hope and expect will be suspended as soon as the list owner awakens in the morning to my email requests.

Ok, so here's an idea. Since MY coins are on his list also, I have to say as happy as I was when I had two different coins made through Rusty (one by the geocoinstore and one straight through Rusty), I am no longer happy with that company and don't see me ever using them again. Sorry.

 

BUT, if you wanted to "thin the herd", how about contacting the original purchaser and offering them to that person?

 

I have both my Haughton's Hunters coins on Bjorn74's list, both are listed as "unnumbered" and he is showing 2 for trade. Tell you what..I'll take them off his hands, and yours Mike and if Rusty has any he wants to "get rid of".

 

You guys were great working with me on my coin as it did not sell as well as was hoped and you made me a great deal. I have since then recommended to you anyone that asked about making coins and even had our GeoCoins.net Member Only coin made through you. Should I assume that there are 15 of each finish of those out there as well? Bjorn doesn't have any on it list, but does that mean he likes them or he already traded his two "extras" out?

 

I also don't see why you would need 5 in your portfolio. 1 each would be enough. And then only if you are meeting clients at their location. Which I would guess you are not, but I could be wrong. I would say two extra would be sufficient. One set for the office to show clients and one for a "traveling" portfolio for when you meet with clients. But 5? I don't see the need for 5 coins, but that's me.

 

If you make samples at all - your really can't condemn us for the same. The trading was bad judgment, but I think that will be corrected at the earliest opportunity.

A sample is OK, or ONE sample per partner...IF you don't just add these to the customers bill and they are NEVER given out/traded/sold. Technically Bjorn is profiting off these coins..at least potentially. He's trading them for other coins and he can then sell those coins or trade them for others.

 

I see these "worthless" coins as you call them, a minting error. And look at what happens to US coins when there is a minting error. They skyrocket in value.

 

I'm not upset at the fact that you make extra coins for each of you. What I am upset about is that you make 5 for each of you. There is no reason that I can see that you would need more than 1 for your portfolio. If they are "worthless" in your opinion, then why do you need 5? They are all identical, so it's not like you're going to show 5 coins to a customer and say "And we can make a coin like this". Now, I'm going to show you ONE coin and say here's an example of what we can do.

 

This is truly a unfortunate turn of events, and I would have to hazard a guess that this may be the fall of your business as many of your customers here won't be able to trust you any longer. I personally am very upset to see my coins up on his list. I don't see any GeoCoins.net Member Only coins, but that doesn't mean they weren't made, just that they are not currently on his list. Maybe he already traded them out? Maybe he gave them away. I don't know if they were made or not, and I don't like it.

 

As I stated before, if you have "extra" of my coins or the GeoCoins.net MO coins, we'll be happy to take them off your hands. Offering them to the public is inappropriate.

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For the record, I did contact the Geocoinstore two days ago for an explaination. Here is the explaination I got from their store.

 

 

 

-------- Original Message --------

Subject: Re: Message From The Geocoin Store 1170181976

From: "Geocoin Support Team" <info@geocoinclub.com>

Date: Tue, January 30, 2007 8:51 pm

To: "Stacy Ash (ANTHUS)"

 

Hi Stacy,

 

It is not unusual for us to receive a few unengraved production samples of our coins prior to mass production and we often show them as examples at trade shows and events. It is also possible that there was an error and at least one production coin was not numbered. Without knowing the history of the coin and who the anonymous person is there is no way for us to tell what the source may have been.

 

Thank you,

 

 

In no way does it mention 5 proofs given to each of the 3 partners. Bjorn75 is one of the partners. In no way was this mentioned in my legal agreement (which I PDF'd and kept). IMO (and apparently many other as indicated in this thread) 15 coins is way to many coins to justify as coins to have to show as samples. One coin or maybe two would be good business practice to show to potential customers -- not 15 and not distributed to 3 different people. Trading or selling any of them is not only bad busines practice, but unethical.

 

If you or your partners wanted to "thin" your collection, you should have contacted the coin owners and asked them if they wanted the coins.

 

I saw the unauthorized coin first listed by 2HappyHikers. I informed them that the coin was not authorized. They indeed had the coin listed as "rare". Then they aske me if I would trade one of my XLEs for this unauthorized coin -- an unauthorize coin of mine that I didn't even know existed until then. 2HappyHikers said they got the coins and a few others from a trade. They wouldn't say who they traded with and wouldn't send me pictures of the coin. I don't believe 2HappyHikers is part of the Geocoin "partners". I think they honestly traded for them so please don't put any blame on them. I merely state this as an example as to how these 15 unauthorized coins are preceved by the coin collecting community as more valuable than the authorized coins.

 

I'm very concerned now that different metals may have been made by the Geocoinstore as part of these proofs. I only minted these in one metal.

 

As for the comments that AtlntaGal and Mike from the Geocoinstore make regarding "free geocoins". I contracted with the store to be the minter and seller of my coins. They were to make 500 coins -- sell 400 of them and send 100 of them to me. This is essentailly the same process that anyone that sells the coins on their own does. They mint a bunch and keep some. The Geocoinstore made $1 from every order of my coins so they were compensated for selling the authorized coins. The coins were presold and sold out in less than a week. Yes they did front the costs but they presold the coins just as they went into production. It disappoints me that a company would try to use this "free geocoins" as their justification for having so many unauthorized proofs and trading them when this "free geocoins" was their business process and how they promoted their offerings. Just because I kept 100 of the coins instead of selling them doesn't give them the right to my artwork or dies or permission to make any unauthorized coins.

 

I would urge the Geocoinstore, thier partners, and anyone that has these unauthorized proof coins to return them to the coin owners. I will be contacting the Geocoinstore to send my dies to me.

 

As a (former) customer, I feel betrayed by the Geocoinstore. I will no longer be dealing with the Geocoinstore, The GeocoinClub, or Personal Coins for my trust with them has been betrayed.

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You know when you sell your coin and get a certain number for free through that website, you essentially give away the coin design in exchange for free coins. There are always a certain number of over run product that are used as samples by the vendors. I'm pretty sure that's what this is.

 

 

This is also untrue for most geocoin brokers. We (CoinsAndPins) consider any coin designs we re-sell as still owned by the client. If we wanted to make more, then we ask for permission from the client before proceeding, and offer additional compensation.

 

But it is definitely true of enough brokers that it is a very easy thing to come across. Just because you don't do it doesn't mean it isn't done.

 

And it's not necessarily a bad deal: the customer can get their coin out, possibly a lot more cheaply, by selling all or some of the rights to their design as part of the coin manufacturing deal. However, many (most?) customers probably don't realize what it means to sell the rights... most will just see a sweet price deal on a coin.

 

Yes, I too have seen coin manufacturing deals wherein the broker has terms like "we reserve the right to sell coins of this design in the future". Because I consider my little squid to be like a trademark, I could not accept such a deal.

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All the proof coins I have were either given to me directly from the person who designed or made the coins or they are my designs. Why do I have to defend myself here Damenace? Anthus wasn't even referring to me in the first place.

 

You mentioned that you have some proofs. Do you have any proof coins of mine in your collection? I obviously didn't know these existed until just 3 days ago, so I didn't do any trading or selling of them. I'm not accusing you, just want to know if you have any of mine or any of the other Geocoinstore proofs.

 

Thanks....Anthus

 

AtlantaGal said:

All the proof coins I have were either given to me directly from the person who designed or made the coins or they are my designs.
So if you didn't give it to her, and she didn't design your coin, then she doesn't have one of yours.

 

To the rest: This thread needs to remain on topic, I'm keeping my eye on it. Personal attacks are unacceptable and will not be tolerated.

 

I don't see how this is a personal attack. It's merely a question since I have no clue where these 15 proof coins are now. I'm sorry if she took it that way for I never meant it to be. She mentioned that she got proofs either from the person who designed them or "MADE" the coins. It is clear that the Geocoinstore gave out 5 proofs to each of the partners. I'm not saying she has one but she (or anyone else) could have traded for one from one of these partners without knowning they were trading for unauthorized proofs.

 

...Anthus

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Well this is bad. The mint has no right to have sample coins run for their personal use above and beyond what the customer ordered.

 

There is just something about this that makes it seem like theft in someway.

 

If the 3 minters intended to not do anything sinister than why get 5 coins each? To have a nice portfolio of coins you have minted/helped produce you would each only need 1 coin. The fact that you got multiples implies that you may always intended on trading some.

 

I will say it certainly makes me think about which coin companies/minters I do business with.

 

As for non-trackable coins/error/typo coins having value they do. Our coins had a paint error and some of those were mailed out before it was caught and people still email me asking for error coins. The minter replaced our coins which gave us some duplicates which we grid the tracking number off and leave as SWAG we have even had people email us for those coins. On eBay our error coin was sold (by someone else) and advertised as a RARE ERROR COIN and brought in more money than just the regular coin. So make no mistake these coins to have higher value than the regular run coins.

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BTW,

 

Last night, I also informed Bryan from Groundspeak that there were un-numbered/non-trackable Signal coins on Bjorn74's trading list. He is aware of this situation.

 

...Anthus

 

Well if Groundspeak was unaware of the practice it would serve them right to have Groundspeak end their contract to mint the Signal coins with them.

 

:blink:

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I see an un-numbered MS State coin on the list, we would also like to get our un numbered coins.

I have personally had no problems with the geocoinstore, and Mike has always been upfront in his dealings with me, I cannot however say the same about personalgeocoins, and unfortunately you are known by the company you keep.

This is not a personal attack, but I started a thread several months ago, and was immediately shut down. My original problem with him has still not been taken care off, and he still does not respond to emails.

To me, this indicates a pattern. If indeed there are 15 of each coin manufactured, then there is a major problem.

I wonder if of my 10 civil war geocoins there are 5 samples of each, this would be a total of 50 coins out there?

I am sure Mike is correct, when the trader awakes he will surely realize his error, he should contact all the people listed, as well as all the trades all ready made, return the coins to their rightful owners and make it all right.

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