CacheNCarryMA Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 I'm using some free ticket vouchers to fly to Seattle for a week at the end of June, and I'm looking for recommendations. My wife, my three kids (ages 7-14) and I will be traveling. What caches would you recommend? Restaurants? Hotels? Attractions? (I have a guide and have researched the standard stuff. Anything offbeat?) Day trips? (I'm thinking of kayaking one day. Know any good guides/rental places?) Is there anything you wouldn't recommend? At this point, we're open to any suggestions. Is a car needed to get around? I'm thinking we could go car-less around the city for a couple of days, but would be necessary for day trips. Quote Link to comment
+Allanon Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 (edited) Any plans to do the only remaining APE cache in North America? If so, you'll need a car...or enough locals wanting to do it to pool with them. Want someone to set up an Event so you can meet lots of local crazy...I mean fellow...fanatics? Day trip including kayaking (or not)...I'd say the San Juan Islands. So many things...what do you have planned already?...that would help with suggestions... Edited February 1, 2007 by Allanon Quote Link to comment
+MissJenn Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 Hotels? ... Is a car needed to get around? I'm thinking we could go car-less around the city for a couple of days, but would be necessary for day trips. If you get a hotel IN the city, then you can likely take advantage of the free bus within the downtown area, plus the hotel's shuttle to supplement that. It would mean you would not need a car for a few days. Outside of the city, I'd recommend car. I've stayed at the Comfort Suites on Roy Street. Pretty good. Hot breakfast and parking included. Wifi. Near the Space Needle. Try to get a higher floor for a better view. Quote Link to comment
+WeightMan Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 Do check out the bookmarks thread above. Whidbey Island is a must do, assuming you have a car. I agree with Allanon. Let us have an event to properly welcome you to the city and most of us are willing to do the APE cache again. It is an hour east of town and includes a walk of over two miles through an old railroad tunnel. Quote Link to comment
CacheNCarryMA Posted February 1, 2007 Author Share Posted February 1, 2007 I have a reservation at Inn at the Market. They're pretty pricey $280+ a night, so I looked around and also found the Inn at Harbor Steps. They're <$200 a night and have a sister inn on Whidbey Island. Isn't there an infamous cache on whidbey involving ladders? I guess the APE cache is now on my list, and maybe a visit to Groundspeak HQ The slate is clean at the moment. Pike Place Market, Space Needle, and Seattle Art Museum are currently on the list. I remember seeing a cache that was at one of the more popular views of the Seattle skyline. Quote Link to comment
CacheNCarryMA Posted February 1, 2007 Author Share Posted February 1, 2007 The US Forest Service website said Mount ST. Helens was a 2 hr drive from Seattle. Is that correct? Is it worth the trip? How long a drive is the Original Cache from Seattle? Is a day trip to Vancouver worth it? Hope I'm not slighting Vancouverites Quote Link to comment
CacheNCarryMA Posted February 1, 2007 Author Share Posted February 1, 2007 Is anyone familiar with Anacortes Kayaking Tours? Quote Link to comment
+WeightMan Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 I have a reservation at Inn at the Market. They're pretty pricey $280+ a night, so I looked around and also found the Inn at Harbor Steps. They're <$200 a night and have a sister inn on Whidbey Island. Isn't there an infamous cache on whidbey involving ladders? I guess the APE cache is now on my list, and maybe a visit to Groundspeak HQ The slate is clean at the moment. Pike Place Market, Space Needle, and Seattle Art Museum are currently on the list. I remember seeing a cache that was at one of the more popular views of the Seattle skyline. The scary ladder cache is archived. Sorry, but Ebey Bluffs is a very good one on Whidbey. Yes, Mt. St. Helens is, at least, two hours south. The Original Stash Tribute is over four hours from downtown. Quote Link to comment
CacheNCarryMA Posted February 1, 2007 Author Share Posted February 1, 2007 (edited) Thanks. I just put Ebey Bluffs in a bookmark list. What was the name of the archived, scary ladder cache? So, I guess Original cache is off the list, and probably Mt. St. Helens. I think I'd rather spend two or three days on Whidbey (is two enough?). Maybe do two days each at the beginning and end of the week in the city, and three days in the middle of the week on whidbey? Edited February 1, 2007 by CacheNCarryMA Quote Link to comment
CacheNCarryMA Posted February 1, 2007 Author Share Posted February 1, 2007 (edited) Any comments about the Experience Music Project? I've been to the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland, and thought it was great. And, how about the Science Fiction Museum and Hall of Fame? I'm not sure my wife and kids would be too into that unless it was pretty mainstream. Edited February 1, 2007 by CacheNCarryMA Quote Link to comment
+WeightMan Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 What was the name of the archived, scary ladder cache? That cache was called Lighthouse Point. I don't have the GC# nor a link, but maybe somebody else can get you that. I have never visited EMP, but I have to look at it on a regular basis every Fall. Personally, I won't pay the price to get in. I think a day or so on Whidbey would be sufficient. Others may have differing opinions, but there are some good caches on the island. Quote Link to comment
+hydnsek Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 For non-caching sight-seeing, I highly recommend the Underground Seattle tour, which starts down Pioneer Square and takes you underneath the modern streets to see the original ground level of the city, including the original first floors of buildings. It's one of the better tourist attractions I've done. Quote Link to comment
+jcar Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 Light House Point, GC126C. Solve Colonel Ebey's Time Capsule before heading out to do Ebey Bluffs. Make sure to do the entire loop. Day or a little more should take care of Whidbey. Here are some others on Whidbey that I have enjoyed, Battery 248 Multi-Cache, Alpaca'd Up and --- All Gone you can see water on both sides of Whidbey, WOODPECKERS AND SQUIRRELS. Quote Link to comment
+jcar Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 Any plans to do the only remaining APE cache in North America? If so, you'll need a car...or enough locals wanting to do it to pool with them. PS. If at all possible you should try to get to Mission 9: Tunnel of Light, only two of them left in the world. Quote Link to comment
+EraSeek Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 If you do go to St Helens, I suggest going to the north side to Johnston ridge observatory. Thats the side with the least caches but the best view by far unless you climb to the rim. Here is a webcam from Johnston Ridge http://www.fs.fed.us/gpnf/volcanocams/msh/ (it's night right now.) Whidbey Island is great. Hit Fort Casey. Ebey Bluffs, well I kinda like it too. Captain Whidbey's Inn is a neat spot to stay near Coupville. Anacortes has a very scenic park (Washington Park). Look for my "Harvesting the Tides" cache there for the best view. I also have a cache on Burrows Island (uninhabited, maybe one ) if you go kayaking there. You won't be disappointed with that place. The ferry trip through the San Juan Islands is always great. Lots of caches there too. Downtown Seattle...I like the underground tour also. Forget the new scuplture park. Quote Link to comment
+ironman114 Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 You might want to put this cache on your list to do: A Criminal Education A very interesting container and unique location in downtown Seattle. Just be sure to bring your PDA or the cache page. Quote Link to comment
+Half-Canadian Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 Is a day trip to Vancouver worth it? Hope I'm not slighting Vancouverites I assume you're referring to Vancouver BC and not Vancouver WA Frankly, with only a week to spend sightseeing, I wouldn't recommend a day trip to Vancouver -- you'd spend most of the day in transit. From Seattle, it's about 2.5 hours driving each way, plus anywhere from 30 minutes to 3 hours wait time at the border. The July 1 weekend is a holiday for Canadians so the border traffic during that last week of June will be even worse than a normal early summer crossing. You've gotten great suggestions on the Ape cache (not to be missed) and Whidbey Island. The kayak company that you asked about works out of one of the most respected kayak manufacturers and outfitters storefronts on the west coast, so you can't go wrong there either. If you do have your heart set on a quick visit to Canada, check out Victoria Clipper, a high-speed walk on ferry that runs between Seattle and Victoria BC on Vancouver Island. Be sure to read the information about passports or other proof of citizenship! Victoria is a wonderful city that is well suited to sightseeing (and caching) without a car. Quote Link to comment
John E Cache Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 The Red Sox are in town the last week of June. You can see an amazing ball park with it's movable roof. If you plan on Canada, you can get there OK, but by then you will need a passport to get back. Quote Link to comment
+Half-Canadian Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 If you plan on Canada, you can get there OK, but by then you will need a passport to get back. A passport is currently only required for air travel. Travel by private vehicle, train, or ferry into or out of the US requires either a passport or alternately a government issued photo ID AND a US-issued birth certificate. Passports will not be required for land travel until sometime in 2009. I speak from experience, as I cross the border several times each week... Quote Link to comment
+MissJenn Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 Forget the new scuplture park. I was there on opening weekend. I think it is quite splendid! I guess that's the thing with opening a thread like this: your mileage may vary. Quote Link to comment
MarcusArelius Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 You will probably want to drop in here http://www.yeoldecuriosityshop.com/ and have lunch at Ivar's. Thier both on the waterfront Quote Link to comment
John E Cache Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 A passport is currently only required for air travel. Travel by private vehicle, train, or ferry into or out of the US requires either a passport or alternately a government issued photo ID AND a US-issued birth certificate. Passports will not be required for land travel until sometime in 2009. I speak from experience, as I cross the border several times each week... Thanks. I was in group discussion last week and was misinformed. What about the kids? The view down here was that the kids need passports too[obviously wrong, now]. Quote Link to comment
+Half-Canadian Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 A passport is currently only required for air travel. Travel by private vehicle, train, or ferry into or out of the US requires either a passport or alternately a government issued photo ID AND a US-issued birth certificate. Passports will not be required for land travel until sometime in 2009. I speak from experience, as I cross the border several times each week... Thanks. I was in group discussion last week and was misinformed. What about the kids? The view down here was that the kids need passports too[obviously wrong, now]. The same requirements hold for kids and grownups -- passports on a plane, birth certificates are OK otherwise. One additional requirement for minor children -- if both parents are not accompanying the kids through the border, you must carry a notarized letter from the non-accompanying parent giving their consent to transporting the child or children outside the US. They are quite diligent with this requirement, in order to prevent children being abducted. Quote Link to comment
CacheNCarryMA Posted February 1, 2007 Author Share Posted February 1, 2007 Forget the new scuplture park. I was there on opening weekend. I think it is quite splendid! I guess that's the thing with opening a thread like this: your mileage may vary. Thanks for all the great recommendations (positive and negative) so far! I realize that these are all subjective and I'm glad there's a dialogue. Since my plans are wide open at this point it's nice to know the options. I'm going to book two nights at the cottages at Captain Whidbey Inn. I'm thinking of maybe hitting the APE cache on Sunday, but I'm not sure how that will go over with my family on the first full day in Seattle. (Only my youngest daughter is as enthusiastic about geocaching as I am.) If we have to change this to mid week, I'm sure there will be fewer other geocachers that can join us. Quote Link to comment
CacheNCarryMA Posted February 1, 2007 Author Share Posted February 1, 2007 Anyone know of any good breakfast places near the APE cache? Or anywhere on I-90 between Seattle and the APE cache? Quote Link to comment
+Team Shydog Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 Please keep up the suggestions. I too am making a trip to the Seattle area this summer (July) and looking for things to do as well. The APE cache is on my list of things to do. Thanks, Chris-Team Shydog Quote Link to comment
+tomfuller & Quill Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 You should consider "Cache Across America-Washington" GCWWRT in Discovery Park. There are 7 others in the park (linked in the cache). Take a picture and post it in case you decide to do the other 49 in the next few years. My favorite place to stay in Seattle is the hostel about 2 blocks from Pike Place Market. Quote Link to comment
+MissJenn Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 I remember seeing a cache that was at one of the more popular views of the Seattle skyline. Kerry Viewpoint Quote Link to comment
CacheNCarryMA Posted February 1, 2007 Author Share Posted February 1, 2007 How long would it take to drive from downtown Seattle to Coupeville on Whidbey Island via the ferry to Clinton, on a Monday morning at 9-10 ish? Quote Link to comment
+Blue Power Ranger Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 (edited) How long would it take to drive from downtown Seattle to Coupeville on Whidbey Island via the ferry to Clinton, on a Monday morning at 9-10 ish? It takes a while to go anywhere in the Seattle area on any morning 9-10ish. Plan for lots of traffic in these parts. Thankfully, you are going opposite the primary flow of traffic so you should be okay. I would say conservatively, 45 minutes to the ferry terminal in Mukilteo and then the ride is like 1/2 hour or less to Clinton. Count on another 30-40 minutes of driving to Coupeville once you are on the island. Edited February 1, 2007 by Blue Power Ranger Quote Link to comment
CacheNCarryMA Posted February 2, 2007 Author Share Posted February 2, 2007 How long would it take to drive from downtown Seattle to Coupeville on Whidbey Island via the ferry to Clinton, on a Monday morning at 9-10 ish? It takes a while to go anywhere in the Seattle area on any morning 9-10ish. Plan for lots of traffic in these parts. Thankfully, you are going opposite the primary flow of traffic so you should be okay. I would say conservatively, 45 minutes to the ferry terminal in Mukilteo and then the ride is like 1/2 hour or less to Clinton. Count on another 30-40 minutes of driving to Coupeville once you are on the island. What is the ferry experience like? Do cars queue up well in advance? Can you buy tickets in advance, or does it not matter? Quote Link to comment
+WeightMan Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 (edited) You drive up to the dock (or perhaps the end of the queue up the hill), pay your money and drive on. No, you are not able to purchase tickets ahead of time, except for commuter tickets. In the case of Mukilteo the shoulder is designated for the ferry queue and if cars are stopped there, get in line. These ferries will hold 124 cars and quite often the dock will not hold a full load. Here is detailed information on the Mukilteo dock. Edit to put correct number of cars. Edited February 2, 2007 by WeightMan Quote Link to comment
+peznurse Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 You asked about breakfast places along I-90 going toward the APE cache. The last place to stop before you get to the pass with restaurants is in North Bend. I have heard good things about the breakfast at Gordy's just off of exit 32 in North Bend and about Twede's cafe about a mile off of exit 31. I think there is a waffle house up at Snoqualmie pass as well, but I am not positive. Enjoy your visit to Seattle! Quote Link to comment
+EraSeek Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 (edited) When I and my wife stayed at Captain Whidbey inn we stayed in the old madrona lodge very near to Christmas maybe 10 years ago and it was delightful! Be warned however that this review: http://www.virtualtourist.com/hotels/North...Island-R-1.html did not seem to have the same experience. Anyway, it gives you some choices. Also, not many have mentioned that we have real moutains out here. Mt Rainier is a bit of a drive but impresive. Go to the less populated side (sunrise) if you are willing to do a great scenic hike up to a virtual cache called "12 birds at the Dome". Check out the cache page gallery. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...74-0aeda119a457 Edited February 2, 2007 by EraSeek Quote Link to comment
+mudsneaker Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 Its been several years since I stopped in, but Gameworks could be a good place to hit and let the kids and adults both relax and play some games. Its pretty fun. Quote Link to comment
+Lizzy Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 How long would it take to drive from downtown Seattle to Coupeville on Whidbey Island via the ferry to Clinton, on a Monday morning at 9-10 ish? As long as you are in the ferry line 15-20 minutes ahead of sailing time, you should be just fine. Mondays, the Mukilteo to Clinton run isn't bad at all. For the most part, the ferry sails on the half hour. Friday late afternoons it gets busy & backs up (especially in good weather) and coming back off the Island on Sundays-you better get there early (before 3pm) or you sit in the back-up lanes a loonnnng time. If you go to Coupeville, check out the Knead & Feed for Lunch (awesome homemade from scratch food & a great view - downtown on the waterfront). I lived on Whidbey for 20 yrs, and that was one of our favorite lunch places when we had the time. Quote Link to comment
+Blue Power Ranger Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 How long would it take to drive from downtown Seattle to Coupeville on Whidbey Island via the ferry to Clinton, on a Monday morning at 9-10 ish? It takes a while to go anywhere in the Seattle area on any morning 9-10ish. Plan for lots of traffic in these parts. Thankfully, you are going opposite the primary flow of traffic so you should be okay. I would say conservatively, 45 minutes to the ferry terminal in Mukilteo and then the ride is like 1/2 hour or less to Clinton. Count on another 30-40 minutes of driving to Coupeville once you are on the island. I wanted to add one more thing regarding a Whidbey Island trip. When my family goes, we always take the ferry from Mukilteo just as you are planning on doing but then usually drive back off the island on the far north side over the bridge at Deception Pass. I would highly recommend not missing the Deception Pass area if you are going to be on Whidbey and I'm sure others on the forum would back up that recommendation. It is well worth the detour. The scenery there is outstanding and there should be plenty for those in your family that don't cache to look at as well. (Link) Quote Link to comment
CacheNCarryMA Posted February 2, 2007 Author Share Posted February 2, 2007 As long as you are in the ferry line 15-20 minutes ahead of sailing time, you should be just fine. Mondays, the Mukilteo to Clinton run isn't bad at all. For the most part, the ferry sails on the half hour. Friday late afternoons it gets busy & backs up (especially in good weather) and coming back off the Island on Sundays-you better get there early (before 3pm) or you sit in the back-up lanes a loonnnng time. If you go to Coupeville, check out the Knead & Feed for Lunch (awesome homemade from scratch food & a great view - downtown on the waterfront). I lived on Whidbey for 20 yrs, and that was one of our favorite lunch places when we had the time. Thanks for the advice. We're leaving the island mid-week, so the wait for the ferry shouldn't be a problem. I guess we'll have to stop at Knead & Feed for provisions for our kayak trip around Deception. Quote Link to comment
CacheNCarryMA Posted February 2, 2007 Author Share Posted February 2, 2007 Does anyone have recommendations for sushi in Downtown Seattle? Quote Link to comment
+bumblingbs Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 (edited) I'm no kayaker, but the currents under the Deception Pass bridge look FIERCE. Edited February 2, 2007 by bumblingbs Quote Link to comment
+bumblingbs Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 For just sightseeing - we took my Mom on the Argosy cruise through the Ballard Locks for her 80th birthday and really enjoyed it. It's not cheap, but it was a fun splurge. Helps if your kids are 12 and under, quite a price difference. http://www.argosycruises.com/publiccruises/locks.cfm Quote Link to comment
+MissJenn Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 For kayaking, I would look for help from these folks: http://seattleraftandkayak.com/ Bill there is very knowledgeable and friendly. If you need a boat, you can rent one (or more). REI does not rent boats. If you just need guides, he can hook you up. If you need .... well, whatever you need, really, he'll know where to get it. At Seattle Raft and Kayak we live for adventure travel. We're also a Washington State licensed Seller of Travel. Let us help you arrange the travel surrounding your adventure with us. Whether you need airport transportation, lodging, other accommodations or just advice, we can help. We'll tap our wide range of travel resources to help you: Book lodging Book other accommodations Arrange related travel Build custom travel packages Quote Link to comment
+Dgwphotos Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 You asked about breakfast places along I-90 going toward the APE cache. The last place to stop before you get to the pass with restaurants is in North Bend. I have heard good things about the breakfast at Gordy's just off of exit 32 in North Bend and about Twede's cafe about a mile off of exit 31. I think there is a waffle house up at Snoqualmie pass as well, but I am not positive. Enjoy your visit to Seattle! There is a resturant at Snoqualmie Summit, that's not bad, and there is a hotel that is part of it. Quote Link to comment
+W7WT Posted February 2, 2007 Share Posted February 2, 2007 (edited) We will probably be geocaching in your area when you are out here. Last time we were in New England was a week after 9-11 and there weren't many caches then. We only found one cache in Maine. We have geocached in all the states west of the Mississippi and quite a few in the mid-west. We will be geocaching in a Roadtrek RV and will try to geocache in the rest of the 48 states. Another way to get to Whidbey Island is to go just past Mt. Vernon and the cut over to Anacortes Then head down through Deception Pass to Coupeville. Lots of nice easy caches in Oak Harbor in parks where your kids can play while you look for caches. We like to trailer our Big Ruckus scooter to Deception Pass Park and then ride the scooter to find caches. Time to go through Deception Pass is at slack tide. I have gone through with a 16 foot outboard and a 25 foot inboard with no problems. When she is running full blast look out for logs swirling around. My wife and I have enjoyed geocaching on Whidbey Island more than any other place. Welcome to Washington State. Dick Edited February 3, 2007 by W7WT Quote Link to comment
+Half-Canadian Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Deception Pass is not a place for amateur boaters to navigate, and can be extremely tricky at any time in a kayak! There are lots of beautiful and tranquil areas to kayak nearby in the San Juan Islands without risking life and limb. I remember the time an unseen rip lifted my 27-foot fully loaded fibreglass fishing boat out of the water as we were approaching the narrowest point of the pass, and spat us back out about twenty feet away into a whirlpool. My passengers later told me they were all screaming, but I couldn't hear them because I was screaming too... You can get a splendid view of Deception Pass from the bridge's sidewalks, from the beach below in the state park, or on the hunt for numerous caches in the vicinity. Quote Link to comment
CacheNCarryMA Posted February 3, 2007 Author Share Posted February 3, 2007 (edited) I'm no kayaker, but the currents under the Deception Pass bridge look FIERCE. I reserved a three hour tour ...<Gilligan's Island echo>a three hour tour!</Gilligan's Island echo> with Anacortes Kayaks. The time slot I booked is during a slack tide. They don't actually go into Deception Pass under the bridge because it's too dangerous. The tours go east of the bridge - in Bowman Bay - and along the coast. The webpage for their Deception trip says something like "Great for Kids". Edited February 3, 2007 by CacheNCarryMA Quote Link to comment
+WeightMan Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 If you have not ridden on one of our Washington State Ferries, do plan to do at least one direction on the boat. Quote Link to comment
luckykoi Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 A passport is currently only required for air travel. Travel by private vehicle, train, or ferry into or out of the US requires either a passport or alternately a government issued photo ID AND a US-issued birth certificate. Passports will not be required for land travel until sometime in 2009. I speak from experience, as I cross the border several times each week... Thanks. I was in group discussion last week and was misinformed. What about the kids? The view down here was that the kids need passports too[obviously wrong, now]. The same requirements hold for kids and grownups -- passports on a plane, birth certificates are OK otherwise. One additional requirement for minor children -- if both parents are not accompanying the kids through the border, you must carry a notarized letter from the non-accompanying parent giving their consent to transporting the child or children outside the US. They are quite diligent with this requirement, in order to prevent children being abducted. If the kid has a passport you don't need a letter from the other parent. Quote Link to comment
+W7WT Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Bowman Bay is usually very calm unless you have a high wind. I think you and the family will enjoy the kayak trip. Quote Link to comment
+Half-Canadian Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 I reserved a three hour tour ...<Gilligan's Island echo>a three hour tour!</Gilligan's Island echo> with Anacortes Kayaks. The time slot I booked is during a slack tide. They don't actually go into Deception Pass under the bridge because it's too dangerous. The tours go east of the bridge - in Bowman Bay - and along the coast. The webpage for their Deception trip says something like "Great for Kids". Good choice! That will be a fun and scenic trip. Quote Link to comment
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