Thank Goodness it Wasn't A GeoCache!

[Zoptrop]

Link to story Boston Bomb Scare

 

I like ATHF.

[+NorthWes]

Hmmm - parent firm of network calls the 'suspicious objects' 'billboards'. In common usage, that's a big sign to be seen by vehicles driving by, etc. In legal usage in the sign industry, that's 'off-premise outdoor advertising'. In my town billboards are illegal - no permits issued for off-premise outdoor advertising. I wonder how they've been missed during the first two to three weeks of this ad campaign?

 

- I wonder if the ad agency got permits for the locations? (as cachers get landowner permission...)

- I wonder how much this is gonna cost? (talk about the ultimate muggle incident...)

- I wonder if its not part of the advertising strategy? (I'd never heard of the ATHF before...)

 

CNN reports that "the Pentagon said U.S. Northern Command was monitoring the situation from its headquarters in Colorado Springs, Colorado, but said none of its units were sent to assist." Big deal - NORAD tracks Santa Claus on an official website on Christmas Eve too.

 

Must admit, when I saw the first reports breaking online I was worried it was geocaching gone awry. Relieved to see it's just a mistake by a division of a very very large broadcasting company who owns legions of attorneys to cover for errors in good judgement...

[Zoptrop]

A form of "guerilla marketing" gone wrong. Not that any of them are actually "right"... I think the Governor's calling them a "hoax" is ridiculous since I don't believe there was any attempt to lure people into believing they were bombs or any kind of harmful device.

 

Reminds of an event they had in Austin a while back (I forget what it's called) where a group of individuals met at a downtown intersection around noon, popped open umbrellas and spontaneously broke into song/dance (singing in the rain) around the intersection. I can imagine what would be made of that kind of scene in today's world.

[+sTeamTraen]

A form of "guerilla marketing" gone wrong. Not that any of them are actually "right"... I think the Governor's calling them a "hoax" is ridiculous since I don't believe there was any attempt to lure people into believing they were bombs or any kind of harmful device.

 

Apparently people thought they were bombs because they had flashing lights on them. I wonder if any real bomb, anywhere in the world, ever, has had a designer who had the spare time to add flashing lights? And how about those LED countdown timers, don't all bombs have them too? All the ones I've seen in films do, and surely movies are closely based on reality?

 

Reminds of an event they had in Austin a while back (I forget what it's called) where a group of individuals met at a downtown intersection around noon, popped open umbrellas and spontaneously broke into song/dance (singing in the rain) around the intersection. I can imagine what would be made of that kind of scene in today's world.

 

25 years ago a bunch of college students held a champagne breakfast (in tuxedos and ballgowns, "au choix") in the middle of a traffic circle in Cambridge, England, as a publicity stunt for an upcoming charity event. I know, because I organised it.

[Brookstherook]

I was listenig on the radio during a road trip and kept on wondering, are these caches that are being discovered by a hysteric public? Then I heard the whole Aqua Teen Hunger Force gimic and saw actual pictures, I knew theses weren't high publicity mugglings-thank God!

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

The "device"

 

<image removed by moderator>

Edited February 1, 2007 by Quiggle

[+Team_J]

The were 2-3 offending pixels blurred on the CNN home page:

It is amazing that someone spent their time blurring the photo.

When you clicked on the story you were brought to a different picture. I guess this one slipped by the editors.

<image removed by moderator>

Edited February 1, 2007 by Quiggle

[Dinoprophet]

Wow, they've arrested someone and are talking serious prison time! For doing nothing wrong, in my opinon (except maybe public obscenity, at worst). Urban caching just got a little scarier to me.

[Clan Riffster]

Wow, they've arrested someone and are talking serious prison time! For doing nothing wrong

These are the folks that keep electing Ted Kennedy. Nothing they do can surprise me.

[+supertbone]

Wow, they've arrested someone and are talking serious prison time! For doing nothing wrong

These are the folks that keep electing Ted Kennedy. Nothing they do can surprise me.

 

so true

[+jasond]

Sheesh! Grow a pair, America.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

The "device"

 

<image removed by moderator>

Guess it could be confused for a GPS though, it seems to be pointing the way!

Edited February 1, 2007 by Quiggle

[Grawp]

So ...... let me get this right.

 

The thing has got loads of lights on the front, and shows an animated image (finger waving).

 

But, without giving any thought to the fact that the lights, the animation electronics required, the size and the fact that it was in plain sight, the clear-thinking public (and the authorities) figured it was a bomb simply because there were wires and a battery attached to it.

 

To all those people who have electronic gizmos with batteries and wires attached - please be careful out there!!!

 

Oh, and automobile drivers - there are wires and batteries in there. Don't drive in public!!!!

[Dinoprophet]

Sheesh! Grow a pair, America.

I'm not sure what this is in reference to. Do you mean, stop being afraid of Lite Brites? Do you mean, stand up to authorities who arrest people before a crime has been invented? Do you mean, go kick some other country's butt over this? Not sure where you're coming from.

[+sbell111]

Wow, they've arrested someone and are talking serious prison time! For doing nothing wrong, in my opinon (except maybe public obscenity, at worst). Urban caching just got a little scarier to me.

I think that it is just a reminder for cache owners to hide their urban caches well and cache hunters to not give away their locations.

[+The Leprechauns]

I am listening to the news right now, and they're emphasizing the highly sensitive areas where the devices were placed. Bridges, subway rail stations and government buildings are all potential terrorist targets.

 

Amazing how that list aligns with the "Off Limits" section of the Cache Listing Guidelines.

[+briansnat]

It wasn't a geocache THIS TIME.

[+Rockin Roddy]

I think some are making light of what could have been a serious and possibly deadly problem! These items WERE placed around bridges, train stations and the likes...those ARE potential terrorist targets!!

 

I applaud those that are diligently trying to keep me safe!! This time it was a foolish attempt at advertising, next time it may be the real thing!!

 

What would you rather they do, ignore anything that seems out of the ordinary, even those that have lights and wires and such??? OK, forget all that has happened then and go on with that "I am beyond reach" thought!! I hope the public keeps up being on gaurd, even if this one was a false alarm!

[+CM-14]

"Number one in the hood, ya'll"

[chuckr30]

A battery and 2 wires does not a bomb make. I think we should be worried that our bomb squads, SWAT teams, officials, and other "experts" truly do not know what a bomb is. They made a big deal out of a Lite Brite panel. And 2 men will do hard time, not for being dangerous, but for making a bad decision.

 

These 2 men will do hard time not because they were dangerous, but because they inconvenienced someone.

 

OTOH, many people do not realize the potential of modern explosives. You can pack enough high explosive in a mint tin or gum pack to almost completely vaporize a full grown adult.

[+sTeamTraen]

A battery and 2 wires does not a bomb make. I think we should be worried that our bomb squads, SWAT teams, officials, and other "experts" truly do not know what a bomb is. They made a big deal out of a Lite Brite panel.

 

My guess is that most of the people involved knew perfectly well what was going on. But any bureaucracy - and several bureaucracies will have been involved here - likes to get itself in the news from time to time, so the taxpayers feel they're getting value for money.

[+Packanack]

We have a child attending college in Boston (let me brag a little, she is attending a prestigious North Eastern University in the Boston area, which is nearly bankrupting her parents ), wait the bill just came in so it is now official, so we follow things there. I also belong to a New England Cape Cod Regional Forum, the following was posted there this morning. I thought the parallels to geocaching were uncanny. We need to be aware of how our hides can produce certain unintended results. I won't hide a box in a city.

The verbatim quote follows.

 

"This is troubling on three fronts -

 

1. The fact anyone can plant devices around the city which could be harmful and not be noticed when doing it.

 

2. The fact we've become so paranoid everytime a odd-looking device is spotted somewhere is disturbing.

 

3. The stupid outfit that put them there didn't bother to notify anyone what they were up to.

 

Looking at the picture on the web of a bomb squad member with a cartoon-looking character in his hand would be almost be funny if it hadn't caused so much grief."

[+Rockin Roddy]

I wouldn't call it paranoid as much as being vigil!! Come on, how were anyone to know that this wasn't a potential threatening device and not just a stupid stunt being pulled by some guys that should have known better!

 

I for one am glad we are vigilant...I'd rather have a few false alarms than one REAL attack!! If this has done nothing more than to make everyone aware of what is going on, then it has been a good lesson.

 

AND YES...those goofs that did this SHOULD be held accountable...they shut down traffic all around that city (and 9 other areas COULD have had the same reaction as they DID do this in 10 states), cost the taxpayers money to have all those LEO branches check it out and assure us of our safety...what would have happened if a real attack were to have happened while everyone was distracted by this "hoax"??? What if a bomber saw this as a chance to wreak havoc and decided to go out and attack???

 

Live and learn!!! BTW...just because it was a toy "Lite Brite" doesn't mean it's automatically something to dismiss as being harmless...as stated above by someone,, you could have packed PLENTY of explosives in that device to bring down that bridge, or kill many people at the train station etc...

[+sbell111]

... I also belong to a New England Cape Cod Regional Forum, the following was posted there this morning. I thought the parallels to geocaching were uncanny. We need to be aware of how our hides can produce certain unintended results. I won't hide a box in a city.

The verbatim quote follows.

 

"This is troubling on three fronts -

 

1.

 

2. The fact we've become so paranoid everytime a odd-looking device is spotted somewhere is disturbing.

 

3. The stupid outfit that put them there didn't bother to notify anyone what they were up to.

 

Looking at the picture on the web of a bomb squad member with a cartoon-looking character in his hand would be almost be funny if it hadn't caused so much grief."

I get what you are thinking, but let's take a closer look at those three comments:

1. The fact anyone can plant devices around the city which could be harmful and not be noticed when doing it. This comment is true of sneaky bad people operating in any free society. I wouldn't want it any other way. Interestingly, the comment is not on point to this situation or geocaching, since our objects are not 'harmful'.
   
2. The fact we've become so paranoid everytime a odd-looking device is spotted somewhere is disturbing.'It is somewhat distressing that we have to be so paranoid, but that's life in the modern world. Vigilence is a good thing. Sometimes that results in false alarms being reported. Oh well.
   
3. The stupid outfit that put them there didn't bother to notify anyone what they were up to.In most cases, I would argue that no notification is required for non-harmful devices. I do believe that we should require all actual terrorist devices to be registered. Perhaps a three day waiting period before terrorists could place them would also be in order.
    
   Seriously, all law enforcement agencies have knowledge of geocaching and most geocaches are listed on GC.com with 'true' coordinates. One could certainly argue that appropriate notification of these items have been given.
   

[BRTango]

I wouldn't call it paranoid as much as being vigil!! Come on, how were anyone to know that this wasn't a potential threatening device and not just a stupid stunt being pulled by some guys that should have known better!

 

I for one am glad we are vigilant...I'd rather have a few false alarms than one REAL attack!! If this has done nothing more than to make everyone aware of what is going on, then it has been a good lesson.

 

AND YES...those goofs that did this SHOULD be held accountable...they shut down traffic all around that city (and 9 other areas COULD have had the same reaction as they DID do this in 10 states), cost the taxpayers money to have all those LEO branches check it out and assure us of our safety...what would have happened if a real attack were to have happened while everyone was distracted by this "hoax"??? What if a bomber saw this as a chance to wreak havoc and decided to go out and attack???

 

Live and learn!!! BTW...just because it was a toy "Lite Brite" doesn't mean it's automatically something to dismiss as being harmless...as stated above by someone,, you could have packed PLENTY of explosives in that device to bring down that bridge, or kill many people at the train station etc...

 

While I agree that these "goofs that did this SHOULD be held accountable..." I have to disagree with the statement that they shut down traffic all around the city. It was the police that shut down traffic, not that they shouldn't have, but it wasn't the marketing guys it was the police. Had the goofs responsible been trying to creat a "hoax" bomb scare then they would be responsible for shutting down traffic. However, the only they did was use poor judgement in a marketing campaign... no attempt to fool anyone into thinking there was any danger was made by those who put out these signs.

 

That being said... i have a feeling that as soon as the bomb squad saw the device, they probably 98.7% or better sure that it was not a bomb. HOWEVER!!!! that does not mean that it couldn't be part of a "boy who cried wolf" bomb scare... so they absolutely did the right thing in shutting everything down and treating every single sign as a potential threat.

 

The main culpability of the folks who put these things out should be in the fact that they did not inform anyone, they did it covertly, and the parent company did not act immediately in quelling the concerns of the city.

[+StarBrand]

I am listening to the news right now, and they're emphasizing the highly sensitive areas where the devices were placed. Bridges, subway rail stations and government buildings are all potential terrorist targets.

 

Amazing how that list aligns with the "Off Limits" section of the Cache Listing Guidelines.

Exactly what I was thinking!!

[+nekom]

And naturally already on ebay.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mooninites-Ignignokt-L...emZ130075321405

[+sbell111]

...what would have happened if a real attack were to have happened while everyone was distracted by this "hoax"??? What if a bomber saw this as a chance to wreak havoc and decided to go out and attack??? ...

Is it really your position that terrorists sit around waiting for us to tie up traffic before they attack? It is much more likely that they would simply stage multiple synchronized attacks. The first attack causes panic and ties up services, the second attacks kill first responders and take out targets that were left without protection. Edited February 1, 2007 by sbell111

[+Rockin Roddy]

No Sbell...my thought goes to some potential half crazed bomber out there that happened to see the news and decided to grasp the chance at striking while there is all this confusion going on...wouldn't be the first time this has happened.

 

Here's another thought...what if potential bombers saw what happened here and decided to "copy" that stunt...but with REAL bombs??? Would be a way to catch everyone off-guard...wouldn't it. We MUST keep vigil no matter how many false alarms we encounter...it only takes ONE real attack to change everything!!

 

edit to add: they just said that the cost of investigating these stunts went to about $750,000...should the taxpayers pay this instead of the guys that placed them because they "didn't mean any harm"?? Action/reaction...they should have been aware of how stupid that stunt was.

Edited February 1, 2007 by Rockin Roddy

[Dinoprophet]

The main culpability of the folks who put these things out should be in the fact that they did not inform anyone, they did it covertly, and the parent company did not act immediately in quelling the concerns of the city.

 

I can agree with that, assuming it's true. I haven't heard whether permission was asked to place these things. That's a critical bit of info.

 

No Sbell...my thought goes to some potential half crazed bomber out there that happened to see the news and decided to grasp the chance at striking while there is all this confusion going on...wouldn't be the first time this has happened.

 

Here's another thought...what if potential bombers saw what happened here and decided to "copy" that stunt...but with REAL bombs??? Would be a way to catch everyone off-guard...wouldn't it. We MUST keep vigil no matter how many false alarms we encounter...it only takes ONE real attack to change everything!!

If we ever get to the point that someone can go to prison because of what someone else MIGHT do, I am so out of here. I'm pretty sure there's no law against doing something that might give someone else an idea of how to do something evil. If there is, then we're all guilty on account of every well-labelled cache we've placed.

edit to add: they just said that the cost of investigating these stunts went to about $750,000...should the taxpayers pay this instead of the guys that placed them because they "didn't mean any harm"?? Action/reaction...they should have been aware of how stupid that stunt was.

The taxpayers should pay it, and then the taxpayers should start grilling the authorities about their reaction. The "perpetrators" should be fined for whatever obscenity, vandalism or trespassing laws apply.

Edited February 1, 2007 by Dinoprophet

[+sbell111]

... Here's another thought...what if potential bombers saw what happened here and decided to "copy" that stunt...but with REAL bombs??? Would be a way to catch everyone off-guard...wouldn't it. We MUST keep vigil no matter how many false alarms we encounter...it only takes ONE real attack to change everything!!

If that were to happen, law enforcement and emergency services would have handled it pretty much like thay handled the false alarm.

edit to add: they just said that the cost of investigating these stunts went to about $750,000...should the taxpayers pay this instead of the guys that placed them because they "didn't mean any harm"?? Action/reaction...they should have been aware of how stupid that stunt was.

It still comes down to intent.

 

Let's say that you were out of the office to go to a morning meeting. After the meeting, you went to the park. You bought a hot dog and enjoyed lunch watching the kids play and the ducks swim. You then went back to your office. Unfortunately, you left your briefcase with your pda, mp3 player, GPSr, laptop, and other gizmos and chargers next to the bench in the park.

 

Someone reported the suspicious item. The police came and sent for the bomb squad. A quick xray of the item revealed electronics, batteries, and the like so they 'disrupted' it.

 

Should you be charged for the services provided or have they already been paid for by your taxes?

Edited February 1, 2007 by sbell111

[+Team ChipsNDip]

quote from the AP :

 

"Peter Berdovsky, 27, a freelance video artist from Arlington, Massachusetts, and Sean Stevens, 28, were facing charges of placing a hoax device in a way that results in panic, as well as one count of disorderly conduct, said Massachusetts Attorney General Martha Coakley. The hoax charge is a felony, she said. Both men were arrested Wednesday evening."

 

A FELONY! That charge is incredibly vague - placing a hoax device in a way that results in panic... how many ammo cans could be targeted with that charge... I think the city of Boston is doing some PR spin to appease all the people THEY put into a panic yesterday.

[+Rockin Roddy]

Not sure where you're coming from there Dinoprophet...that's not what I'm saying at all.

 

What I'm saying...plain and simple...is this: if a bomber was watching all this that was going on and decided NOW would be the time to act since everyone's attention was on this "stunt", there would be a greater chance of pulling their act of terrorism off...and less to come to the aid of potential victims because they'd all be busy elsewhere!!

 

The other part says that this could also offer the bombers an "idea" of how to carry out their attack...since it has already been done and many have "poo-pooed" it as a "hoax", there's a chance the public's gaurd would be let down and that would give this attack a better chance at being carried out!!

 

No one said ANYTHING about charging these guys because they might have given someone an idea...they should be arrested for being silly enough to even do this in the first place!!

 

Would it have been any different if they had left the devices around airports??? They put them under bridges (terrorist target), near train stations (terrorist target) and other places where common sense says one shouldn't be messing around!!

 

Might want to rethink placing caches near any of these areas..and I HAVE found some caches ON and UNDER very busy highway bridges....won't take that chance anymore!!

[+dejal]

Should you be charged for the services provided or have they already been paid for by your taxes?

 

Did you leave it on purpose to cause problems, with the intent to stir things up?

 

If yes, then yes you should pay up, after you and your sorry a** serves a jail sentence.

 

Most of the people on the 9/11 aircraft were from Mass., RI or NH. 4 people from my town died on 9/11, either on the planes or in New York and I live about 90 minutes from Boston. One of them was a neighbor of mine when I was a kid. He died working at the WTC.

 

I don't buy the "they've been there for weeks". If they were, then "EVERYBODY" ignored them for weeks?

Right. If that's the case then every metro area in the country is inept in seeing these things.

 

In many circumstances in this country, you screw up mountain climbing, you get a bill for the rescue.

Why should willfull stupidity by minions of a Fortune 500 corporation (and the Fortune 500 corporation) not

be held accountable?

[+sbell111]

quote from the AP :

 

"Peter Berdovsky, 27, a freelance video artist from Arlington, Massachusetts, and Sean Stevens, 28, were facing charges of placing a hoax device in a way that results in panic, as well as one count of disorderly conduct, said Massachusetts Attorney General Martha Coakley. The hoax charge is a felony, she said. Both men were arrested Wednesday evening."

 

A FELONY! That charge is incredibly vague - placing a hoax device in a way that results in panic... how many ammo cans could be targeted with that charge... I think the city of Boston is doing some PR spin to appease all the people THEY put into a panic yesterday.

I'm sure that they'll have a competent attorney who will beat that hoax charge. In my mind, for it to be a hoax, they would have had to either made the items to resemble bombs or 'marketed' them as such.

[+sbell111]

... No one said ANYTHING about charging these guys because they might have given someone an idea...they should be arrested for being silly enough to even do this in the first place!! ...

I wonder how many people would say that about any geocacher who places any geocache anywhere.

[+sbell111]

Should you be charged for the services provided or have they already been paid for by your taxes?

Did you leave it on purpose to cause problems, with the intent to stir things up?

 

If yes, then yes you should pay up, after you and your sorry a** serves a jail sentence. ...

In my example, of course not. Is it your position that this marketing gimmick rises to the level of a bomb hoax? I think not. These items were left in places that they would be seen. They were designed to show the public an inage that would be memorable in order to market the product. While one would imagine a bomber places explosives in these locations, it is likely that he would design the devices to be less obtrusive.

[+Rockin Roddy]

Why sbell...would the park be a terrorist target???COME ON people....these guys chose to intentionally place these items in some very bad locations...they may not have intended the reaction, but then, they should have been smart enough to know not to place them in terrorist target locations!!

 

APPLES to BOWLING BALLS...

 

and yes...a felony! There isn't much difference than if they'd have placed them in an airport...hey guys, you CAN go to jail for just SAYING bomb there!!

[Dinoprophet]

Not sure where you're coming from there Dinoprophet...that's not what I'm saying at all.

But you are saying they should be punished, but the only reasons seem to be because of what could have happened.

 

What I'm saying...plain and simple...is this: if a bomber was watching all this that was going on and decided NOW would be the time to act since everyone's attention was on this "stunt", there would be a greater chance of pulling their act of terrorism off...and less to come to the aid of potential victims because they'd all be busy elsewhere!!

To me, that's an argument that the reaction should have been more measured. Again, it's not the advertisers' fault the police reacted this way.

 

The other part says that this could also offer the bombers an "idea" of how to carry out their attack...since it has already been done and many have "poo-pooed" it as a "hoax", there's a chance the public's gaurd would be let down and that would give this attack a better chance at being carried out!!

So instead of concealing their bombs so they're not noticed until they blow up, they're going to put lights all over them to draw attention to them? If all terrorists operate that way, I don't think we have much to worry about.

 

No one said ANYTHING about charging these guys because they might have given someone an idea...they should be arrested for being silly enough to even do this in the first place!!

Arrested for what? "Being silly" is a crime in Boston? You can't (so far) be imprisoned just because someone doesn't like what you did. If there's a crime, fine, try them and penalize them accordingly. As of yesterday, the police were investigating what charges could be brought up -- i.e. they were trying to find the crime! It turns out they've pleaded not guilty to "placing a hoax device and disorderly conduct". That's apparently the worst they could find. And given the lack of intent, I don't see how they can be considered hoax devices.

 

Would it have been any different if they had left the devices around airports??? They put them under bridges (terrorist target), near train stations (terrorist target) and other places where common sense says one shouldn't be messing around!!

 

Might want to rethink placing caches near any of these areas..and I HAVE found some caches ON and UNDER very busy highway bridges....won't take that chance anymore!!

I'll certainly consider them very carefully from now on.

[+worldtraveler]

It still comes down to intent.

 

Let's say that you were out of the office to go to a morning meeting. After the meeting, you went to the park. You bought a hot dog and enjoyed lunch watching the kids play and the ducks swim. You then went back to your office. Unfortunately, you left your briefcase with your pda, mp3 player, GPSr, laptop, and other gizmos and chargers next to the bench in the park.

 

Someone reported the suspicious item. The police came and sent for the bomb squad. A quick xray of the item revealed electronics, batteries, and the like so they 'disrupted' it.

 

Should you be charged for the services provided or have they already been paid for by your taxes?

I agree that intent should be a major factor in determining whether to hold someone accountable for a disruption.

The people who placed the flashing objects intended to do so and, using the "reasonable man" argument, should have known of the likely disruption, given the current environment. They should be held accountable for the disruption.

 

The man in your scenario presumably did not intend to leave his briefcase behind when he returned to the office. He should not be held accountable for the disruption.

[+Rockin Roddy]

I guess that's why we should adhere to the rules of geocaching...and use common sense!!! I for one wouldn't place one on or near a bridge, around an airport (as I have seen mention in the forums recently) or even at a bus terminal or train station!! Not at a city hall, police station, fire station...I think you get my point!!

 

And I truly doubt they went for permission to place these around there...why would there have been this reaction if they had??? And really, do you think permission would have been granted for such locations???

 

From what I saw of the one they showed on TV, these were placed in somewhat obscure locations...not to good for advertisement UNLESS they realized something like this may happen and give them MUCH MORE advertisement for FREE!! That is calculating and purposeful...of course this is just a thought, so I'm not sayng this was the intent...

 

It all boils down to COMMON SENSE!!!

[+jasond]

Sheesh! Grow a pair, America.

I'm not sure what this is in reference to. Do you mean, stop being afraid of Lite Brites? Do you mean, stand up to authorities who arrest people before a crime has been invented? Do you mean, go kick some other country's butt over this? Not sure where you're coming from.

Stop being afraid of Lite Brites? yes

Stand up to authorities who arrest people before a crime has been invented? not so much

Go kick some other country's butt over this? not at all, but it seems we turn more molehills into mountains than anyone else

[+sbell111]

Why sbell...would the park be a terrorist target???COME ON people....these guys chose to intentionally place these items in some very bad locations...they may not have intended the reaction, but then, they should have been smart enough to know not to place them in terrorist target locations!!

 

APPLES to BOWLING BALLS...

Ummm, of course busy parks are terrorist targets, as are restaurants, bowling alleys, movie theaters, etc. As far as that goes, my analogy works just as well if you ate a sandwich in the lobby of the local federal building and walked off without your briefcase.

and yes...a felony! There isn't much difference than if they'd have placed them in an airport...hey guys, you CAN go to jail for just SAYING bomb there!!

Now you are comparing apples to oranges. The people who left the items never claimed they were bombs. In fact, while it is true that items left in airports are checked out, confiscated, and often destroyed, if the items turn out to be bening, people are not generally charged for the service.

[+sbell111]

I guess that's why we should adhere to the rules of geocaching...and use common sense!!! ...

Three thoughts:

1. The placers of these devices were not geocachers. Therefore, they are not bound by the guidelines.
   
2. Lack of common sense is not, in and of itself, a crime.
   
3. Calling these things 'devices' makes them seem evil, doesn't it? If the news had simply said that several Lite-Brites were found around Boston, it would be quite a different story.
   

[+Rockin Roddy]

DP...saying that it isn't the fault of the guys placing the items but the fault of the police doing what they are paid to do is ridiculous. OK...how about if I placed a dummy in the middle of the road on a dark night at a dark curve. The driver comes around the corner, see's the dummy, drives off the road and gets killed...his fault for overreacting to my "hoax"??? The guy shouldn't be charged because he was "having fun"???The police are overreacting because the guy had no malice intent??? It's called manslaughter.

 

Placing suspicious items in KNOWN sensitive areas is a purposeful act that is known as "causing public panic", could have been called manslaughter if someone had tried to get away fast and caused an accident because they were so scared by what they saw.

I believe it IS possible to be jailed for doing something someone didin't like...happens all the time!!

[BRTango]

Why sbell...would the park be a terrorist target???COME ON people....these guys chose to intentionally place these items in some very bad locations...they may not have intended the reaction, but then, they should have been smart enough to know not to place them in terrorist target locations!!

 

APPLES to BOWLING BALLS...

 

and yes...a felony! There isn't much difference than if they'd have placed them in an airport...hey guys, you CAN go to jail for just SAYING bomb there!!

 

Funny you mention bowling balls. Several years ago I created a bomb scare at a shopping area (Post Exchange) on a mililtary base in Germany with my (of all things) bowling ball.

 

I had parked in front of the store to load some heavy items into my trunk. Took the bowling ball out to make room and forgot to put it back in. After I left... someone reported the mysterious, black, unmarked bag in front of a high traffic military facility. The police were called, evacuated several buildings in the area, blocked off roads in all directions... esentially shutting down the installation.

 

The EOD team arrived on site... geared up... and after about an hour of examination, determined that it was a bowling ball and harmless.

 

Should I have paid the costs?

 

How about the other time I created a bomb scare, shutting down an Air Force Base in Doha, Qatar. I was coming back onto the base. Entered the gate, stopped at the checkpoint (along with about 4 truckloads of soldiers from Afghanistan and about 6 other vans/cars of people for about 120 total). I left my vehicle as directed and about 5 minutes later was brought back to my vehicle to answer some questions as to why the bomb sniffing dog was hitting on my camel-back. When I couldn't answer the question, they shut down the installation, evacuated the 120+ pax from the checkpoint and brought in the EOD team.

 

After about 30 minutes using both bomb sniffing dogs and electronic sniffers, they determined it was a false alarm. (on a side note... I was kept just outside of blast range whereas everyone else was taken about 1.5 miles away.)

 

Should I have paid the costs for this incident?

 

Granted the cases are different in many respects... but again, these are marketing guys who used poor judgement. There was no "hoax" of any kind... they did not intend to incite panic. To say that they should have been smart enough to know not to place them in potential terrorist target locations... well... that's being a bit naive... there is currently no law in this country or any other that I am aware of that says you must be aware of potential terrorist target locations and know the mindset of a terrorist. If your a marketing guy for something like "Aqua Teen Hunger Force" it is possible you don't pay much attention to politics/current events outside your interest area/etc...

 

I know many people who wouldn't think twice about how their actions may be percieved as potential threat activity. Why? Are they stupid? Foolish? No... they simply aren't in the same mindset of other people. Poor judgement does not equate to a terrorist hoax. They should be charged appropriately, and charging them with felony mentioned in the article is not appropriate unless intent can be proven.

[BRTango]

DP...saying that it isn't the fault of the guys placing the items but the fault of the police doing what they are paid to do is ridiculous. OK...how about if I placed a dummy in the middle of the road on a dark night at a dark curve. The driver comes around the corner, see's the dummy, drives off the road and gets killed...his fault for overreacting to my "hoax"??? The guy shouldn't be charged because he was "having fun"???The police are overreacting because the guy had no malice intent??? It's called manslaughter.

 

Placing suspicious items in KNOWN sensitive areas is a purposeful act that is known as "causing public panic", could have been called manslaughter if someone had tried to get away fast and caused an accident because they were so scared by what they saw.

I believe it IS possible to be jailed for doing something someone didin't like...happens all the time!!

 

In this scenario the person who places the dummy in the middle of the road on a dark night is intending to cause panic.

 

Placing a lite brite as part of a marketing campaign is intended to create interest not panic. That panic was created was an unintended consequence. Unlike in the dummy scenario where it was the intended consequence.

[+sbell111]

DP...saying that it isn't the fault of the guys placing the items but the fault of the police doing what they are paid to do is ridiculous. OK...how about if I placed a dummy in the middle of the road on a dark night at a dark curve. The driver comes around the corner, see's the dummy, drives off the road and gets killed...his fault for overreacting to my "hoax"??? The guy shouldn't be charged because he was "having fun"???The police are overreacting because the guy had no malice intent??? It's called manslaughter. ...

The difference is that in your example, you did intend to create a hoax. If you were driving home from the homecomeing game and a dummy accidently fell out of the back of your truck and caused the same mayhem, you would not be charged.

[+Glenn]

They have now arrested someone in Chicago over this. No charges have been filed, yet.

[+Rockin Roddy]

Wow...did they KNOW they weren't "devices" and just some silly toy??? I don't think so! Could an explosive be placed in that toy...YES!!!

 

Defend this until you're blue in the face...I've said what I think!

 

I think these guys intentionally placed these items too! Same thing!! Maybe they didn't intend malice, but then a youngster just placing a dummy in the road probably wasn't meaning to cause an accident either.

Edited February 1, 2007 by Rockin Roddy